When it comes to decisions that the Cincinnati Reds will have to make in the next two weeks, what they do with Wade Miley is going to be the biggest one. Unlike the Nick Castellanos option, where he gets to make the decision, the Reds actually get to decide what to do when it comes to Miley’s option. They can either pay him $10,000,000 to come back and pitch for them in 2022, or they can pay him $1,000,000 to go pitch somewhere else.

The decision, on the surface, seems as easy as it possibly could be. Wade Miley was the best pitcher on the Cincinnati Reds in 2021. He made 28 starts and led the team in ERA with a 3.37 mark in his 163.0 innings. His WAR, according to Baseball Reference, also led the pitching staff as well as the entire team (position players included).

Ever since Wade Miley learned the cutter back in 2018 he’s made 81 starts and 2 relief appearances and posted a 3.53 ERA in 425.1 innings pitched. The two seasons prior to that saw him post a 5.48 ERA in 62 starts. The cutter turned his career around and he hasn’t looked back.

For the Reds, it’s basically a $9,000,000 decision. That’s the difference between picking him and paying him to go pitch somewhere else. It’s going to be tough to upgrade, or even break even with what Wade Miley should be expected to give you if you were to try and spend that money in free agency. Yes, it’s possible you could. But the likelihood and certainty involved in doing so aren’t great. You know what you’re likely to get with Miley and that’s worth a lot more than $9,000,000 on the free agent market.

Unfortunately, the Reds budget isn’t going to just be unlimited. And among the players that they actually have the ability to “save” money on that could be useful, Miley is the big one. And that, alone, seems to be the only reason why the team could decide to not pick up his option.

One thing that could, at least in theory, give the Reds a slightly better feeling about not picking up the option on Wade Miley could be their “close” starting pitching options. Outside of Miley, the Reds are returning (at least as things sit right now) Luis Castillo, Tyler Mahle, Sonny Gray, and Vladimir Gutierrez.

But it’s the options beyond those four that could allow the organization to think that they may be able to get a little bit more “bang for the buck”, potentially. Hunter Greene, Nick Lodolo, and Reiver Sanmartin all reached Triple-A last season. Sanmartin even got a chance, and pitched well, in two late-season starts with the Reds. Tony Santillan pitched mostly out of the Cincinnati bullpen in 2021, but he’s a guy who could start in the long run and should be an option for the rotation entering 2022. And then there was the Reds minor league pitcher of the year, Graham Ashcraft, who topped out in Double-A last season.

It’s probably unreasonable to expect any of those guys to come out, particularly from the very start of the season, to pitch like Wade Miley should be expected to pitch in 2022. But is the team confident enough in one of those guys that they feel their performance plus what they can do with $9,000,000 can exceed what they would get out of Miley? That’s a much tougher question and answer to put together.

73 Responses

  1. Alex

    Well, the SS situation last year tells you all you need to know. They were willing to go with no one instead of spending money. Needless to say, it won’t take much “confidence” in another option to pick it, if that option is cheaper.

    • greenmtred

      It’s just possible that they looked at the FA shortstops available and the terms of their availability, and decided that none of them were worth it. It’s also possible that they determined that the reasonable options didn’t want to come to Cincy. It’s possible that they felt that they were unlikely to be serious contenders in 2021, have a promising shortstop in the high minors, and couldn’t justify paying an older player like Gregorious to be a placeholder on a 3rd or 4th place team. They aren’t big spenders, and it’s frustrating and has probably held them back, but sometimes deciding not to spend is the right decision.

    • VADA

      From my perspective most of the comments are related to $$$. Whether it be, letting players walk, or trading away talent to save $$$. Pressing Votto to retire saves $22 million overnight. His performance after aging another year won’t help the future of the team. The $22 million would be better spent on filling the needs of the bullpen, starting pitching, and SS. To be honest, I think the Reds gain if there is a “lock out” in 22. Owner gets to hold on to Votto’s $22 million plus other high salaried players. As I see it, Votto had his glory days. Now it’s time for him to consider the future of the Reds. The Reds didn’t actually fall apart after Rose departed. If $$$ is the issue, and from reader’s comments it seems to be, then free up that $22 million + and forge ahead. I could live many years on just $1 million so I know Votto wouldn’t be found living poor. So then, if the issue IS $$$ then dump salaries that hinder rebuilding. One other comment: how many are aware that Greene can play SS very well. Not sure about his hitting though. Lastly, would the Reds gain anything if the ownership allowed several local fans to sit on, and participate in, their board meetings? It sure would provide a whole new perspective to those meetings, that’s for sure. I’ll clam up now and watch for all the Votto fans to express their views. Just be sure to keep how important $$$ seems to be in the minds of commentators on this forum. Fan favorites can’t play quality ball forever. At the age of 73 I have seen MANY of my favorite players depart. As one fan has already said, the Braves are NL Champs and did it with youth, not BIG $$$.

      • Michael


        Not to get in the way of your curious rant but the Braves did it with money and some youth. They had a payroll that is 20 million higher than the reds. four of their starting eight according to baseball reference are 30 or older. Two of their starting 5 are 30 or older. They have two guys making over 20 million a year. The first four guys off the bench with most plate appearances are 29 and older. Are you confusing them having Acuna and Riley with being a team loaded with youth?


        Also Atlanta is the 5th oldest team in baseball by average age at 29.1 The reds are 11th at 28.3. 7 of the 8 oldest teams in baseball made the playoffs with Oakland being in the race. The White Sox’s were the youngest team to make the playoffs but they still were only middle of the pack at 16th.


      • Votto4life

        How exactly are they going to “press” Joey Votto to retire? By refusing to retire his number someday?

        No one in their right mind would walk away from that amount of money. Joey is healthy and producing near peak performance. By the way, the $22 million the Reds spent on Votto this past season was a bargain.

        I’m curious Vada, would you walk away from that type of money?

      • Brandon

        Lol. Could you please give us an idea of what your “Convince Joey Votto to walk away and give the team his $22M back” speech would sound like?

  2. Redsvol

    I’m a big believer in wade Miley. Yo me. A team needs a pitcher like Miley to get thru the big 162. My only concern would be injury history if a pitcher in his mid 30’s. It’s possible San Martin can become Miley-like. But I wouldn’t bet a season on it.

    If we have to cut payroll I’d rather trade sonny gray or Castillo. Sonny’s a true professional but he’s probably redundant and his presence would hold back the young guys from getting their chance. The cost of holding them back plus his $11m salary for his performance is too much for me.

  3. Hotto4Votto

    We discussed a lot of this on the thread the other day. The reason I brought it up as I was spitballing ways to make room in the budget was in fact that it’s the most obvious area the Reds could save a big chunk of money while having an as close as possible good bet at an in-house replacement. I still agree it’s a no-brainer to pick up the option in a vacuum. If I thought the Reds had the budget to do this and address finding a legitimate Castellanos replacement, it wouldn’t even be up for discussion. I just think finding a Castellanos replacement will be more challenging. If the Reds want to contend next season with this group, and they should as both the Cubs and Pirates are rebuilding, then they have to address the hole in the lineup that Castellanos creates. The $9m in savings would help with that. But overall, I’d like to see Miley back and hope the FO can find another way to address the lineup hole.

  4. El TTB

    If past front office performance is any indication, we should expect a declined option followed by a couple of league minimum/minor league invite dumpster dives.

  5. Cleat-ons

    The real problem imo is that you definitely need more than 5 starters to get through the entire 162 game season. We need all five starters from last year plus a bivy of young guys in the minors or in the pen to choose from when one or more of the starters go down. Sign Miley. He is worth the money. Plus it sures up the necessary depth of quality starters to get through a season successfully. In a sense it makes every slot down the line below him better. Finally, imo none of the guys in the minors has shown that he is ready for the show yet. Their AAA performances have been inconsistent.

  6. SultanofSwaff

    Maybe assumed but worth mentioning is the absurd increase in valuation of the franchise since the Castellini group purchased the team. Viewing these payroll decisions through that lens certainly tilts the conversation toward keeping ‘expensive’ players on the roster. The small/middle market fans need to push back on the false narrative our clubs can’t afford nice things. It’s been mentioned before, but if a team is crying poor they should get out of the business because this is simply the price of poker.

    • Jim Walker


      For decades all sorts of service businesses have raved about Cincinnati’s “90 minute market”; but the Reds seem to be out to convince people it doesn’t apply to a baseball team doing business in the center of the 90 minute circle. The Reds market is not defined by the 275 loop. The team should stop behaving like it is.

  7. CFD3000

    If the Reds really need to save money on pitching they should buy out Miley for $1M and trade Sonny Gray. If (when?) Castellanos opts out that’s about $36M to play with to upgrade the roster. Starting pitching can be covered and probably pretty well by Castillo, Mahle, Gutierrez, Santillan, Greene, Lodolo, Sanmartin and Ashcroft, and perhaps Jeff Hoffman as well. But that approach is as likely to backfire as not. Injuries, ineffectiveness, and young pitchers not quite ready to dominate MLB could easily whittle that list down to crisis levels. I think Miley is relatively cheap insurance with a high floor. They should pick up his option.

    • Stock

      Letting Mahle go would be foolish. If nothing else sign him and trade him and save $1 million. Miley could get some good prospects with his salary. If you are going to trade Gray and not keep Miley the Reds SP will stink and the Reds bullpen will stink. The Reds will be average offensively. Not the makings of a contender. If you are not going to contend you should blow it up because 2025 – 2030 is looking pretty good right now. Add to it with some quality trades.

      As for your projected pitching staffs:
      Castillo and Mahle are good major league pitchers.

      Gutierrez is not a ML pitcher. He is the one the Reds should trade. His ERA will be north of 5 if he starts next year. His ERA after the first 3 weeks last year was 5.24.

      Santillan did well in relief last year once the Reds determined he was not a ML SP. Leave him in the bullpen. We need him there.

      Greene and Lodolo may be ready by midseason but they are not ready now. Leave them in Louisville.

      Sanmartin is not a ML SP. He will be a bullpen piece at some point.

      Ashcraft needs at least 1 more year in the minors. His ERA his last 8 starts was 5.13. If you have a 5.13 ERA in AA you are not ready for the majors.

      • MBS

        Gutierrez still needs to prove himself, but I am baffled at how you can know what his ERA will be next year. I think it was a fatigue issue with Gutierrez. We’ll have to see next year who’s correct.

        As far as who needs to go to make room for the new guys, it will depend on team spending. The negative side of me says the Reds won’t spend, therefore we need to trade assets like Mahle, and Gray. The positive side says go all in retain Castellanos, and bring in a closer.

    • Bob Purkey

      If the Reds lose Nick C, this team will need to rely on pitching, defense and, moving runners along. Keeping Miley allows you to concentrate on improving D and moving runners. . . 2 things that the Reds are in short supply of right now!

  8. Stock

    There is no doubt in my mind the Reds will pick up the option on Miley. If for no other reason they will pick it up to save $1 million. The Reds will have no problem trading such a reasonable contract should they feel they can not afford Miley.

    If they can’t afford Miley, Castellanos or Lorenzen they may as well blow it up because they have no chance to compete. Trade Castillo and Gray. Hold on to Suarez and Moustakas and hope they perform in the opening months of 2022 and then trade them. Either extend Winker through 2027 or trade him.

  9. Jim Walker

    Retaining Miley seems like a no brainer. He is worth the $10m as a pitcher for the Reds. Miley also does not represent a risk of being stuck with an ugly contract if they want to retain him then trade him for value in the off season or fall out of contention and wish to trade him at the deadline.

    Personally, I’d like to see the Reds not shop him; however, if the Reds are trying to fill an outfield need and the other team is dug in on getting Miley; so be it. Just be certain to maximize the return on his value.

  10. Jeffrey Oakley

    While I love Miley, as I watch the Braves in the WS I am struck by all the young guys on the team. I keep hearing about a guy needing “more seasoning” or maturity from the Reds. They always talk of what would happen if one of these guys fails, what would that do to their career. Well the Braves have never worried about that and it has worked out. Cut Miley loose and have the youngsters compete for the last spot, or…pick up the option and trade one of the big two for added value. Either way it is time for the youngsters to step up.

    • Jim Walker

      I am all for getting younger and quicker; but. as Doug stated at the end of his post, it is most likely going to be a way into the season before any of the heralded starters are ready to fill Miley’s footprint in the rotation.

      But yes, other than when the Reds are left with no choice (India last spring for example), they seem absolutely ham fisted at getting young talent ready and into the mix on the position side.

      • Alan Horn

        I agree with your last paragraph. Lopez and Barreo are the prime examples.

      • Jim Walker

        @Alan>> And Stephenson was vastly underutilized. The debate about where he could have been used can wait for another time but there is no doubt he was not used to full advantage.

      • TR

        Yes, this version of the Reds finds it difficult to replace veterans with talented young players, i.e. J. Barrero & T. Stephenson.

    • DataDumpster

      Have watched the Braves quite a bit lately. Their payroll is only slightly higher than the Reds and the team basically lost their whole outfield and 2 of their 3 best players in early July. They didn’t even get to a winning record until early August and here they are. Their manager is decidedly old school and spent many years in the minors. He relies on the pitcher’s input and how the other team is making contact to make bullpen decisions. He pitched one reliever in 4 straight games, used others for more than two innings, and used a 3 man starting rotation. Their front office basically replaced 2 outstanding injured players with 4 pretty good players all making an impact now (Peterson, Rosario, Soler, Duvall). 21 of the players including the manager graduated through their AAA team in suburban Atlanta. Even their new park and The Battery entertainment area is much nicer (I’ve been there) in the 5 years it has existed than The Banks and gabp has achieved after 15-20 years of its “progress.” The team is young, dynamic, and well rounded with very good defense, baserunning and managing. The Snit (as the manager is known locally) versus Dusty. Looks like a very evenly matched and entertaining series, much more so than the Coastal titans that were disposed of earlier.
      Why couldn’t the Reds come up with a team like this? Their rebuild times were similar but somebody thought that a few big swingers and the David Bell analytics approach would reign supreme over all the other things that we have learned about baseball over the last 100 years…Congrats to the Astros and the Braves!

      • TR

        Snitker is a lifer in the Braves organization. Dusty played half his career with the Braves. They’re friends and apparently played handball against each other years ago.

  11. Bred

    Major sports leagues do not operate like other consumer based products. Most corporation understand that to increase profit margins the quality of the product has to be better than it’s competitors. Sports leagues prey upon its consumers because they know following a team is an emotional choice. Fandom, IMO, is not logical. For me, it started with my family going to game at Crosley Field. We went to games and had fun watching the Reds together. We invited the Reds into our family and lives. If my attachment was not grounded in family, I’d find a new team, or be like most, a bandwagon fan. That’s what ownership does not understand, or they make enough money without winning that winning does not matter to the bottom line. If they want 30,000 seats filled every night, they must present a quality product. I think that starts with keeping Miley.

    • Jim Walker

      I agree down the line. I also believe it was a major miscalculation for the Reds to sign off on the minor league team in Dayton. They thought the Dragons, particularly since they would be a Reds affiliate, would build interest in the Reds and ultimately help boost Reds attendance.

      I don’t have hard data, but my sense from being in the community is that instead, a number of folks even in the south end of Dayton/ Montgomery County go to see the Dragons versus traveling south on I-75 to GABP as much as they used to do.

      The Dragons moved up to be the Reds A+ team this season; but, I think it would serve the Reds better if they could eventually make them the AA affiliate. That way folks could get attached to seeing guys in Dayton and within a couple of seasons have the chance to see some of them as Reds at GABP.

      • Mark Moore


        I believe the challenge with Dayton becoming an AA team is the geography. When we first moved to the Raleigh area, our local team (Zebulon, NC) was an AA affiliate of the Reds. The travel rules made them a stretch and even an exception and they ultimately moved the club down a level (they are now a Bernie Brewer Bunch).

        Having just written that, the revised format with 6 games in one location may provide a little more wiggle room in the future. Frankly, I like that setup as my DD#1 worked her local A team’s games and it allowed her a very predictable summer schedule with plenty of time to do what she wanted (even visit us) during the 2-week stretches where the team was away.

      • Jim Walker

        @Mark, The Akron (OH) Rubber Ducks are the Cleveland Guardians AA Affiliate (Northeast AA League in the new setup). There look to be 3 teams in the same division as the Rubber Ducks that are located in central to western PA; but, the shuffling and juggling could be a difficult issue as you suggested if one of those cities had to drop to High-A to facilitate the move of a AA franchise to Dayton. And what would the current AA MLB affiliate then do for an AA team?

    • Jeffrey Oakley

      The problem here in Cincinnati is that we have a minor league owner swimming with the big fish in the majors. He does not have the money to be there. He is running the team only looking at the bottom line. In all major league sports today the ownership is made up of the mega rich. They see a team as something to show off their mega wealth. They look at the purchase price and what they will get when they sell because the cost of teams has gone up exponentially lately. Bob and his group bought the team for 330 mil. and it is worth 1 billion today for example. That return is large enough for the mega rich to justify buying the team and being in the spotlight for awhile and then getting out making another pile of money. In the interim they spend on players (Mets) to make the team better, stroke their egos and hopefully win. The bottom line be damned because the return will outweigh the cost. Bob can’t afford this.

      Owning the first major league team and the “Big Red Machine” to boot would be a great trophy on the wall of some big hitter. It would be like owning a crown jewel or a rare Ferrari or painting. There would be no need to go to a bigger market because that isn’t what it is about for them. It is the Reds and all they stand for in the general scheme of MLB. Until the old man realizes this and takes his money and runs we are stuck with his outdated mediocracy…A guy like John Barret would know where to find someone like that and the incentive of being associated with the deal would just improve his brand, so you see it isn’t an impossible dream.

  12. burtgummer01

    Some people are talking about the money saved from Nick C.,Miley etc and putting it towards new players.With the worst ownership in MLB I’m pretty confident that moneybags Bob will just put the money in his pocket

  13. LDS

    Based on the Reds recent history, I’d expect them to buy Miley out and not pick up Barnhart. And that Farmer is next season’s starting SS. The Reds organization has shown any seriousness about winning during Castellini’s entire ownership. Why would we expect that to change now?

  14. David

    I think as Jeffrey Oakley so correctly observed, the Braves are generally speaking, a pretty young team.
    Freeman, Duvall are older players. But the rest are fairly young, probably without huge contracts.
    The Reds have to think carefully about how they spend their money. Spending it poorly does not lead them to a pennant contending team. Spending it wisely…might. Even with their big payroll, the Yankees barely made it into the playoffs, and were out quickly.

    There are no guarantees. The Braves were struggling in early August of this season to stay above .500, and now are playing in the World Series.
    And recalling the 2010 and 2012 teams, which were pretty good (the 2012 team should have gone to the World Series, but frankly choked), Castellini and Jocketty did inherit a pretty good team and a farm system that produced some pretty good players.
    Jocketty frankly FAILED in keeping the farm system going well, which is largely why from 2015-2018, the Reds stunk on ice, despite Joey Votto having near – MVP years in 2015-2017. Nick Travieso and Nick Howard, anyone?

    Signing older players may or may not work. It’s as much of a risk as promoting AAA players and pitchers and relying on them.

    2022 will come and go, and then where will the pitching staff be if they hold onto Miley, Grey and Castillo? If Castillo has a really good year in 2022, he might be too expensive for the Reds in 2023 (I think he can become a free agent after 2022).
    The Reds could lose 60% of their starting rotation after the 2022 season.
    What then?

    • AllTheHype

      Gray and Castillo are controllable thru 23, as is Mahle.

  15. James Phillips


    The Reds might let all of this talent walk for no more than 2 sandwich draft picks. They have to plan more than one year at a time. What is the payroll projected to be for the next three years? Base player decisions today on that projection. Otherwise they’re looking at letting Winker, Mahle, and Castillo walk for a draft pick or two.

    • Angelo

      Dumping Iglesias’s cheap salary last year cost us the playoffs. Everything Bob does is to save money. So frustrating being a life long Reds fan under these circumstances. Hopefully Bob proves me wrong this year. If Castellanos is not resigned I am walking away from this team which is something I never dreamed of considering I have been a reds fan since 1973.

    • SultanofSwaff

      WOW. James, you really hit the nail on the head. At some point, some of that talent needs to stay. Simply put, there’s no way a high payroll team gives up on that many veteran players. Heck, the Giants bought their way into a division championship by picking up players just like this….including multiple Reds.

    • DX

      That’s why Castillo Mahle and Winker need to be traded. If not, you can put them on that list too.

    • JayTheRed

      I think you have figured it out. This team doesn’t plan ahead they live year to year and balanced budget to balanced budget. What they should do is create a 5 year plan and just stick with it. Send out as many veterans as possible and then build with youth and a few select veterans like the Braves did. Or….. Go for it all with a good bullpen, Castellanos, and a legit Shortstop option.

  16. Klugo

    Okay, so I could live with them not keeping Miley IF THEY TAKE THAT MONEY AND SPEND IT ELSWHERE; not stuff it in their pockets. Get a SS, or CF, or relievers worth a crap.

  17. Magnum44

    I don’t understand why they don’t pick up both Barnhart and Mileys options even if they don’t intend to keep either of them…..If both of them hit the market both sign for a larger number than they are earning…..I am not the smartest guy but that = Value….Well run franchises don’t let value walk away for free, and especially if you have to buyout both to do so. I don’t think we are very well run, but anyways WHODEY!

    • Jim Walker

      Barnhart at $7.5m is a huge risk. All teams know he isn’t worth that much to the Reds in 2022 with TS ready to take over. TB’s fair market value to someone who would use him as their primary catcher is probably in the $5m range at the most.

      About the only way the Reds would recover $7.5m of value on TB is from a contending team in a serious injury contingency situation late in spring training after the season started.

      A more likely outcome is that the Reds would be stuck with him all season and payout the full contract or end up needing to bundle him with a prospect to get rid of the salary load.

      • Jim Walker

        IMO, the move that should have been made to keep from “losing Barnhart for nothing” is to have realized as the deadline approached in July 2021 that Stephenson was their best option at catcher and moved Barnhart then.

        Of course, the Reds had dug themselves a hole in organizational depth at catcher by going cheap instead of having a legitimate “3rd catcher” on ice at AAA, in part because Kyle Farmer was supposed to have been the “3rd catcher” either at the back end of the MLB roster or at AAA.

        But somebody would have had a glove first veteran receiver at AAA the Reds could have picked up for a song at the deadline.

  18. Mark Moore

    A $10M Miley contract is a steal … even if they package and trade him during the season. But it’s a coin flip as to whether or not the FO does what we all think is a slam-dunk option.

  19. old-school

    I don’t think it matters. I don’t see the Reds payroll high enough to contend for a World Series and fixing the Grand Canyon hole in RF and 3 hole hitter and fix the bullpen and get another RH hitter. Miley at 35 is a big risk but only a 1 year risk. Hes a bridge to Greene, Lodolo and Graham with good marketing for the Reds brand.

    On a good note, Derek Johnson promoted to Director of pitching for the organization.

  20. Tim

    The management likely doesn’t concern itself much with income. They see the team as an investor who plans to sell for a prophet. The Reds value has mushroomed even though they’ve been marginal in competition. The financial risk to field a winner isn’t offset by any potential increase in value. Therefore, we won’t likely see an all in mentality that invests in Miley and improves the pitching situation.

    • SultanofSwaff

      The team won’t net you a first teamer like Jesus, but they might be able to get a package of Nostradamus and Abraham, with a prophet to be named later. 🙂

      • Michael

        Sultan for the win. Cassandra approves your comment

  21. Magnum44

    Barnhart at 7.5 million all it takes is one call to New York and he is gone for 2 low A lottery tickets.

    • Jim Walker

      If the deal is there, make it now before the option call date.

  22. Jazz

    Why not resign Tucker and if Castellanos is gone put TC in right. As this point the Reds have serious issues. Senzel can’t stay in the lineup, Winker two years in a row finished the year on the DL and what exactly has Castillo done to qualify as a pitcher who is consistent. Sorry, but he was mediocre this year. Farmer @ SS is that the answer??.. no but Barrero hadn’t proved he can hit ml pitching yet and now you read zrefs night move him to Center??.. haha.. Is Suarez gonna hit .180 again??..This team had problems.

  23. Jazz

    Basically what I’m saying is even if they sign Castellanos.. big deal. Did they make the playoffs with him????..

  24. Votto4life

    This decision is easy. Wade Miley is a bargain at $10 million. Why would they even consider not picking up the option? Worst case scenario is sign and trade him. Not only do you save the $1 million buy out but you get talent in return.

    If the Reds fail to pick up this option, the future of this franchise is going to much worse than any of us have imagined.

  25. David

    Yes, that’s true and perhaps my meaning was lost in my comment. The point being, if they are controllable through 2023, do you hold on to them through that year and only get a compensatory draft pick if they sign elsewhere, or do you trade them after 2022 because they still have one year of “control” left and get some players or pitchers to fill in the gap.
    Sorry if I did not make this clear. You are correct, of course.

    • David

      Comment above directed at “Allthehype” further up thread.

    • AllTheHype

      If it were me, I’d be looking at moving Gray, depending on the return. He’s an undersized SP who lost some velo and is approaching his age 32 campaign. That’s three negatives in one statement. The odds aren’t good that he will improve on his ’21. And if moved, he would provide some payroll flexibility.

      I’d def be picking up the Miley option. Good, dependable innings eater, every team needs one or two of those.

      And as I posted in another thread, a lot depends on the Nicks. One needs to resign, the other needs to get healthy and produce. The bullpen building blocks are there. Full seasons from Moreta, Santillan, Cessa, Warren and possibly SanMartin will go a long way. Resigning Givens would be nice. Need at least one or two quality lefties though.

  26. Nick in NKY

    I would for once like to see the Red’s FO make moves with a viable long term strategy in mind. If it isn’t “win now,” it should be “set ourselves up to win a lot later.” I know we’ve seen flourishes of “win now” over the past couple years, but it sometimes I get the feeling like they’re being far too reactive instead of proactive.

    Anyway, point being with regard to Wade Miley: picking up his option fits into either one of those strategies. On average, how many pitchers that are expected to start and give multiple competitive innings does a team go through in a season? Can you really have enough of those guys, especially at the dollar figure of Miley’s deal? He’s a low risk bet to give you good innings, or bring back trade value. Picking up his option should be the easiest decision the FO makes this winter.

    Not picking up his option means, in my mind, throw in the towel. That would be the same mistake they made last year with Iglesias and Bradley; a sure sign they don’t care if they can field a competitive team or not.

  27. MK

    First move I would make would be to pick up Tuckers option and then make the biggest effort to trade him. Better than letting him walk for nothing. Then package him, Suarez or Moustakis, and Senzel to Cleveland for Jose Ramírez. Money would be similar,leave money available to pay Ramierez’s new contract in 2022 and this would take some heat off of losing Castelleanos. Either Moose or Suarez can play first while Votto DH’s.

    • Jim Walker

      Which is the worse outcome for the Reds, “losing Barnhart for nothing” or being on the hook to (over) pay him $7.5m to be a glove first backup catcher or possibly having to bundle cash/ talent to move him at that salary? I would try to trade him ahead of the option call but cut bait if that didn’t work out. As they say on that one TV game show, once the option is exercised, he is the Reds to keep.

      • wkuchad

        Agreed, no way the Reds should pick up that option. Mainly because I fear the Reds will have a tight budget.

        I would love to bring him back next year, but only at $3 to $4 million max.

        I believe the Reds are very close to a contending team. I hope they make the right tweaks this offseason.

        And add me to the list that picking up Miley’s option is a no brainer. Unlike Tucker, the Reds could actually trade Miley or one of their other starters and get value in return.

      • Jim Walker

        @MK>> Probably autospell or autoedit. It has even invaded my desktop computers now. 😉

      • Votto4life

        I would pass on Tucker’s option. The Reds can not be spending $7.5 million on a back up catcher. You may be able to trade him, then again that salary is going to scare away potential suitor. Now, if you could sign him for say $5 million he would have more suitors but then why would Tucker make that deal? I would pass on Tucker’s option but definitely pick up Wade Miley’s option.

    • MK

      Yeah I would have the deal in place before the option is picked up. Thought I said that in post but didn’t.

  28. Optimist

    Tucker is either the #1 backup for the best teams, or the best available starter for the worst teams. It’s a somewhat curious position, and may take some creative dealing, but if he doesn’t take a lower AAV with the Reds, he’s worth multiple lottery picks or take-a-chance relievers.

    Not a good sign if they do nothing.

    • Jim Walker

      I agree with your evaluation of TB’s status with other teams. This is why I seriously doubt he is worth the $7.5m salary that goes with the option. If the Reds take the option they are going to be stuck with the salary or end up bundling talent and/or cash to move him once it is in force.

      Unless they can get a deal done ahead of the option call, it seems better to me to pay the $500K buyout, thank him for his service and wish him well in the future than to risk they can get value for him once the salary is attached.

      • Chris Holbert

        The issue I have with the TB option, is, if they pick it up with the intention of him being the backup, DB cannot help himself, he will use him as the #1 and we will see TS languishing as the first RH pinch hitter or staggering around in the OF…that is not a good thought.

  29. Broce

    My opinion they would have made playoffs this year if they hadn’t given Iglesias go for nothing last year they have given Chapman and Iglesias up for absolutely nothing