One hesitates to say a news story is a bombshell, but with as tight-lipped as things are when it involves the Cincinnati Reds and their front office goes, the report at The Athletic this morning from C. Trent Rosecrans and Ken Rosenthal is about as big as it is going to get around the franchise on the Ohio River. The article is free to read and you can check it out here.
The first four sentences lay the groundwork for the problems with the Reds organization. And some of them are problems we have been hearing about for over a decade now. It begins with Bob Castellini asking why the Reds aren’t the Brewers. It’s a fair question as Cincinnati hasn’t won a playoff series since 1995 or even a playoff game in 14 years while Milwaukee is about to win 100 games this year and is looking at a playoff sport for the 8th time in the last nine seasons. They’ve won the division six times in that span, including each of the last four seasons.
According to the report, president of baseball operations Nick Krall “effectively pointed the finger right back at the owner” and then named off trades that were not approved by ownership. While it hasn’t been publicly talked about until this article, apparently the question has been asked by Castellini for a very long time and the baseball people have always given him a similar answer and he’s always decided that wasn’t the way to build the franchise. But we have heard about his stepping into things in the past – particularly around the All-Star game in Cincinnati, when it was reported at the time that he vetoed trades of players because the team was getting the game in 2015. Those players would be traded later, but at lower values because they had less time remaining on their contracts.
Bob Castellini certainly is a problem. But the front office, both before the “Nick Krall era” and during it, haven’t exactly done the best with what they have had to work with at times, either. The “rebuild” after 2015 failed miserably. Some of that can perhaps be put on Castellini for delaying the ability of the front office to trade guys away at higher values, but a lot of those trades that were made didn’t work out. Acquiring Luis Castillo was a slam dunk win, but that came in 2017. The other trades returned guys like Brandon Finnegan, John Lamb, Cody Reed, Keury Mella, Adam Duvall, Brandon Dixon, Jose Peraza, Scott Schebler, Eric Jagielo, Caleb Cotham, Rookie Davis, and Tony Renda. There are a few solid players in there, but there’s no one who was actually good for very long and definitely not anyone who was a difference maker.
Another big part of why that post 2015 rebuild failed is that even the prospects that were already in the Reds organization at the time – top 100 caliber guys, even – just didn’t produce in the big leagues. Following the 2015 season the Reds farm system was considered to be loaded with talent. But looking back at it their top 15 prospects at the time turned out two solid position players in Jesse Winker and Tyler Stephenson and one solid starting pitcher in Tyler Mahle, while just about everyone else failed to make any sort of impact for the Reds and only Robert Stephenson made an impact of sorts outside of Cincinnati.
More recent moves for Cincinnati haven’t exactly turned out well, either. Ke’Bryan Hayes was a very poor hitter when he was acquired a little over a year ago with four years of guaranteed money remaining on his contract, and a 5th year with a $6,000,000 buyout. This season he’s hitting .143 with an OPS+ of 18. That’s what pitchers used to put up when the National League still let them hit.
The team traded Mike Sirota for Gavin Lux. At the time of the trade Sirota was a 3rd round pick coming off of a down junior season at Northeastern, but was considered a 1st round talent when that season began. He had not yet played a single professional game when traded. Since then he’s turned into one of the best prospects in baseball.
Free agency has been tough for the Reds basically since it began. Very seldom have they really gone out and signed high-end talent and in more recent times as salaries have gone up they have rarely even pretended to consider the top players. But they have tried to play in that middle tier of free agents and by-and-large they have failed miserably. Whether it’s Mike Moustakas or Jeimer Candelario – they’ve utilized the limited free agent dollars available to them in a very poor manner.
The farm system right now is about as bad as it’s been in my 20+ years covering it. Some of that is due to the recent graduations in the last 14 months. Sal Stewart and Chase Burns were both “lost” from the farm system since August of 2025. That’s going to cause a drop for any minor league system. And to those guys’ credit, they’ve done nothing but perform at a high level for the big league team.
But the bigger reason for the farm system being so bad is that there just isn’t much talent anywhere close to the big leagues. Top prospect Alfredo Duno finished the year in Double-A. Beyond him, there’s not anyone else who looks like more than an average level big leaguer overall that’s considered “close”. And when you look at the pitching throughout the farm you might start to feel nauseous.
Among pitchers that threw 70.0 innings on the farm this season and had at least half of their appearances as a starter, the best ERA came from Jose Acuna, who came in at 4.48. That’s right. In the entire farm system only one starting pitcher who threw 70.0 innings had an ERA under 4.50. Even when you look at the lower levels where some of the guys with good numbers were at in rookie ball, none of them projects to be more than a middle of the rotation guy if things go right for them. The cupboard is incredibly bare.
The ownership is a big problem. And the front office rightfully can and should point at the ownership as a reason the organization has struggled. But the front office has tons of blame, too. Poor trades. Bad signings. A farm system that is abysmal right now. A development plan that can’t seem to get too many guys to figure out how to transition from Triple-A prospect who is crushing the ball to a big leaguer who can hit the ball out of the infield. There are problems seemingly at every level of the organization. Everyone should be pointing fingers at everyone else. And the guy in the mirror, too.
This article is 100% spot on, going back to the awful tear down of 2015. The truth might be hard for some to digest, but it’s just truth. Seeing a writer provide details, objectively, gives me a sense of relief for some reason. I, for one, appreciate it.
Clipped from Reds website on MLB. Last three GMs for the Reds.
Walt Jocketty……………………………….. 2008–2015
Dick Williams………………………………… 2016-2018
Nick Krall…………………………………. 2018–Present
All of them friends and family of the owners. I’m thinking they might want to do some hiring at a new dinner table.
Reds did that in 1951 (Gabe Paul), 1960 (Bill DeWitt), and 1967 (Bob Howsam).
Amen, the whole organization is so disfunctional and quite honestly have no business being owners of a professional team.
The problems do start at the top, but that is because they do the hiring. To me, our real issue is with the hittingand pitching coaches. They have failed miserably helping pitchers pitch not just throw. The same with the hitting coaches failing miserably to help our players improve their batting averages. The buck stops with them and nothing will change until we get remove them and hire coaches will will actually coach!!!
They’re not in a good spot, and I don’t envy them. But I think people would appreciate honesty and a plan. Even if they come out say, you know we stunk this season, and we’ve kind of been mediocre and stunk for the most part for 13 years.
People would appreciate that. I’ll give them a little credit that they’ve come out of the 2015-2019 type of years mostly, but it feels like they are close to heading back there, or just staying in perpetual mediocrity.
Jeremiah,
good point. An honest state of affairs and a plan on how to fix it.
I wonder if the Reds brass truly believed we were close to being really good when they signed Tito? I would be surprised if Tito came back next year, this organization is a mess.
Not sure I would “appreciate” somebody admitting they aren’t competent, but if that admission leads to some sort of healing or remedial support, it might turn 77 wins into 82 wins. That would be the first step.
What this current discussion has done is stake some notions to the ground about where the franchise has been and where it needs to go. Previously, all we heard was hashtap-sell the team Bob or hashtag Krall is an idiot.
We can at least sort out some thoughts that were previously confined to social media bigots. I think perpetual mediocrity is (shudder) preferred to the threat that they could become the Eastern Time Zone’s version of the Rockies.
TY for that link.
I think it goes back 50 years when the Reds transitioned from Bob Howsam to Dick Wagner in 1978. I believe the Williams brothers were the primary owners (or lead owners) then.
In the past 50 years (1977 to 2026), the Reds won 5 division titles, 1 NL pennant, and 1 WS title. Few MLB teams have results that bad over 50 years.
A good read.
Louis Nippert held the managing partner share from 1973 to 1980, and let Howsam run the show like he was the MP. The Williams family held the MP share from 1980 until after the 1984 season, when they sold it to Marge Schott, who had become a minority owner in 1981.
The buzz, as I recall it, was that the head Williams brother had a serious health problem and decided to sell. I believe this was Dick Williams ‘ grandfather. If not, it was a great uncle to Dick.
So Wagner came into power under the Nippert regime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cincinnati_Reds_owners_and_executives
I also recall that when Marge took over, there was talk that owners had the right of first refusal, and Marge stepped up with the best (or only) inside offer.
My recollection is there was a real chance of the franchise moving if Marge didn’t buy it. Despite everything she brought to the table, many non-positive…, she kept rhe team in town.
I believe the Reds need to draft better athletes, best athletes available, and build a winning culture in the farm system asap. I saw the Reds system first hand in the 70’s and they had talent. The Phillies built there 80’s championship teams with quality farm hands too. Just sayin
Beautifully laid out, Doug. This summarizes things so well.
I tend to put a little more blame on ownership, but Krall & Co have whiffed an awful lot with the moves they have been able to make, and deserve a sizeable share of the blame. And the Hayes trade is just an inexcusable black eye.
All GMs whiff sometimes.
DeWitt (who was a good GM in both leagues) whiffed on Osteen, Cuellar, Rojas, Tovar, Gonzalez, Bailey, Lynch, and MOST NOTABLY Frank Robinson.
Howsam turned Pappas into Cloninger, Davidson into Carroll, and Simpson into Alex Johnson (later McGlothlin). Multiple trades there. Others were even better (Foster, Morgan, Tolan & Granger, Norman, Seaver) for the Reds.
But even he whiffed. McRae to KCR for little in return. Grimsley to BAL for not much back. Andujar to HOU for minor leaguers. Wilcox to CLE for Uhlaender (OPS+ 28 as a Red). Perez to Expos for very little of value. He also traded Harper for not so much in return.
The rules are different now. The Reds have few good trade chips. DeWitt and Howsam had plenty. Top shelf FA rarely sign with CIN. Dave Parker did. Aroldis Chapman did. Not many others.
DeWitt drafted well in 1965 and 1966. Howsam drafted well at first but not so well in the 1970s.
The Reds have been underachieving the back of their baseball card for 50 years.
Warning: Irrelevant information landing!
I agree. Your reply is utterly irrelevant.
I’ve been a Reds fan since 1956. Et tu?
The center of the trade to KC, was essentially McRae (and Wayne Simpson) for Roger Nelson.
Nelson had just had a great year pitching for KC, and then he hurt his arm or something (nerve injury in his elbow, it’s been over 50 years…my memory!).
They also got Richie Scheinblum, who was a good hitter, but had a glove that went clank in the night. Sparky would not play him because he was a lousy outfielder, so we will never know what could have been.
Hal was a great guy, and changed his hitting style to match Royals stadium, which was much bigger than Riverfront. It drove him crazy at first, but then he just missed winning an AL batting title a couple of years later.
Correct on Nelson. Good pitcher in AL the year before but arm problems kept him from much success with Reds. Scheinblum was just not very good. He did last very long with Reds. Traded in May 1973.
McRae was arguably one of best DH of his era in AL. he might have been 4th or 5th OF on BRM teams.
Good intentions but bad trade by Reds.
Oldtimer, don’t feel bad. Some guys can’t read more than 140 characters.
Of course all GM’s whiff sometimes, butt that is not what I said. I said they have whiffed an awful lot. There is a big difference.
I’m not looking for the Reds to be The Big Red Machine again. I want them to be the modern day Rays, Brewers, Guardians. Or even the Royals, who at least won a World Series in 2015. Or the Marlins and their two World Series wins. The Reds haven’t advanced in the playoffs in over 30 years. And they have rarely made the playoffs in that time.
Ownership, with their tight pockets, is the biggest problem. But the GM’s have not been able to do what these other franchises have with their low budgets.
DeWitt also committed the worst blunder in Red’s history on December 9, 1965.He traded away the 1966 American League triple crown winner whom he claimed was washed up.
Pin this article Doug. A sad depressing realistic “state of the union” .
Painted accurately as a slow-rolling, then large scale collapse.
We also got Burke for Lux. So we got to mlb seasons for Sirota
I think you missed the point. It isn’t so much that we lost the trade as it is that a small market team should NEVER trade prospects for a player at the talent level of Lux. They could have received a better player in the FA market.
Never thought about it from that perspective. Probably a good way to think about it.
Doesnt necessarily apply for 2027 though. We need a bunch of imported talent. The only prospects I would have off the table are 2027 arrivals. We have monkeyed around with the Elly years for too long and now or never is the time to harvest. We need to recognize that 2029 is going to be a down year unless we resign Elly to a longer term deal. Push your chips (prospects and spending) into the middle and hope the next 2 years are bountiful. Or resign Elly into the 2030s and give yourself an extra year to pull this together. 2027 can not be another year of waiting unless Elly is onboard for the long haul. It is not moot to the fans who messed this up. It is messed up and Elly is not signed. Fix it.
Two my bad
In a fight between the owners the bosses and managerial staff, employees, I would probably expect that the owners will win almost every time. I don’t expect Krall and Meador to last long after the next CBA is signed. Blaming the bosses is not going to help their cause. In other news, Elly should probably be traded. They cannot afford his talent and he obviously cannot pull the Reds up on his own. The scary thing is seeing some of the trades by the Krall/Meador team, means the Reds will not get much talent back in return. Why is it I keep seeing ex-Reds doing well with other teams. And finally, I don’t know if there is anyone with deep enough pockets in Cincy willing to splurge $500 million on the team or whether the Castellini’s will cast a wider search. The only thing keeping the Reds in town may be the GABP lease.
The only thing I disagree with here is trading EDLC. He’s the guy to keep as long as possible and build around. If he walks after three years, the team will be better off having had him those three years than if they traded him in the short run and played the three years with other players. He is that good.
+10,000
Tenn Tom: As a Red’s fan since 1944, I have avoided thinking about or writing about your last two sentences. Other than talking office politics over lunch with other agreeable employees, making direct criticism about ownership or the boss is not going to work. The organization needs major change to keep the Red’s franchise in Cincinnati, the city where professional (paid) baseball began.
They had a trade offer for Elly in hand from the Red Sox this summer. I dont think the Who is public other than “4 top prospects.” Krall’s rebuff, and the obvious problem, was that apparently some of these hot shots were 2029 arrivals. Krall obviously had very little stomach (or guts) for that. A revisit of Castillo for 2 of Seattles top 3 prospects (Marte and Arroyo) and the 2 year wait in arrival time. It might be nice to reload your minor league system if you had some base to it or were sitting in first or second place. Nah, that isnt our world. We are in last place and we have no pitching at Louisville and very uncertain hitting. We took a gamble this year on Benson, McLain, Hinds, Marte, Hayes, and others and it blew up. Are we going to risk the same next year with Arroyo, Hrod, Banfield, Bleday, etc? And take away Elly and Greene? That to me sounds like surrender and 90 losses is our medicine. With Votto and Larkin ranting, there is already blood in the water. I see no frickin way the organization is going to roll out a similar product. Half-baked 82 wins ? Maybe. That still will cost a good bit of money. 90+ wins? And a ton of money? Maybe? And have Elly have another MVP like year and dump him? Cant see it. If I had to guess, I would say it is sizable spending and shoot for 82 wins.
Rob2, I don’t think it’s really true that the Red Sox offered four top prospects for Elly.
What the Sox beat reporters stated was Boston made an offer for Elly which was turned down. The idea of “four top prospects” is likely related to the Adley Rutschman trade.
In that trade, the Red Sox sent out their #2, 3, 5 and 10 prospects, with a platoon ML catcher.
Getting a catcher was a top priority for Boston more than a SS, as well. So it was probably a lot more due diligence by Boston than a serious run at Elly.
Sorry if I misspoke. We know the Red Sox made a legitimate offer by several reports. We know Krall turned it down. And I thought – perhaps mistakenly – that it was top prospects and not necessarily 2027-2028 prospects. Thanks for the clarification.
Well , It seems Krall could be losing this game since the Ownership has the last word on who is the GM…But how we can understand Krall and the other people will keep on charge after a decade of failures…
Loved the article.
Any little bit of public humiliation, that could lead to change is welcome.
I was pro-rebuild when they dumped Winker, Suarez, Castillo, Mahle, and Gray. They were the exact type of moves that could have led to great things. Marte/Petty/Steer/CES…and other prospects were highly rated. It’s kind of bad luck that 1 or 2 didn’t develop into something more. Steer has been the best of the bunch.
The correct process was there, but the results didn’t yield much bounty. It comes down to many factors though.
1. Was the talent evaluated properly?
2. Did your organization develop the talent? Does the organization’s hitting or pitching philosophies bring out the best in the players?
I’m not a genius, just asking a question, why is it the Reds seem to get good players then when they get here they go bad, then when a player leaves they get better. NOT ALL, but quite a few.
Well, there is a 3rd factor too, and that is what offers were put on the table and how did they compare with the trades that were made…but we don’t know what those were.
Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
+25,000 😀
I feel we’re maybe finally at the tipping point where ownership has their come to Jesus moment…..that they need to 100% surrender control of the baseball operations to baseball people….ideally from outside the organization. My Chicago Bears, another insular family business, came to that realization like 3 years ago and handed over full control to outside people and the trajectory has been upward ever since. Once can hope.
Man, just think of the ego Bob Castellini must have to kneecap the franchise for 20 years with his meddling yet still insist on decision making authority at 85. It’s astonishing.
@ SultanofSwaff….
Yes, Bob and Phil are cut from the same mold. I am a smart business man! I don’t need these dumb baseball people talking about metrics and stuff.
Yes, extreme egotism by ownership has ruined more than one baseball franchise.
Carl Linder got Ken Griffey Jr. to come to Cincinnati (big give away trade), and signed Barry Larking to a ridiculous 3 year contract at the downside of his career. Those two deals kneecapped the Reds for most of the period of 2000-2008. It didn’t start with the Castellini’s.
Who can forget Eric Milton? I know that was a bad signing too.
The Griffey, Jr trade boiled down to him and Mike Cameron. Others involved but they were 1 & 2,
From 2000 to 2008, KG had 12.8 WAR and 122 OPS+
In that same timeframe, Cameron had 32.4 WAR (several teams) and about 110 OPS+
Griffey is HOF and Cameron is not, but MC was better player than KG from 2000 to 2008.
I was surprised, to say the least, when they failed to do a national search after Dick Williams left.
If Krall and Meador do not survive this, and if they fail to do a real search for replacements, I can’t see anything but continued (and planned) mediocrity.
What do the mediocre like best? More mediocrity.
Remember they done a search for a baseball position outside the organization they found David Bell.
David Bell is the son of Buddy Bell and grandson of Gus Bell. Both have (had) longstanding ties to the Reds.
Gus was OF in 1950s and 1960s. Buddy was 3B in 1980s.
David Bell managed Reds MiLB teams before becoming Reds manager.
Excellent. TY for helping me feel sane.
It’s a fleeting feeling, don’t worry.
It brings me back to the question I’ve asked a several times over the last couple of years. If the owners won’t let Krall have the money he needs and the authority to act on what he does have, why is he clinging to the job. He should have quit years ago. And the fact that despite the finger pointing and some of it clearly coming from Krall, the fact that all sides say the same organization will move forward is totally baffling.
How embarrassing. This organization is a shell of its former self. Nick Krall is a weasel and the Castellini’s are clueless and egoistical. Thats what I got from this article. You cannot walk away from reading this thinking any of them know what they are doing or know the first thing about building a winning baseball team. Krall thinks he is doing a good job and thinks it the owner’s fault. Thats mind blowing to me.
Couldn’t agree more. As Doug points out, Krall hasn’t exactly been successful with the trades that he did make. And frankly I’d rather have Candelario than Hayes. Though I’d prefer to pass on both. And Rosenthal’s article said that Krall wanted to sign Martinez instead of getting a hitter. Just what they needed another pitcher on a team that can’t hit.
Krall and Meador have done good and bad, but you can’t really say he has done the best job possible with the limited resources that Ownership has given him.
Too many mistakes, too many bad decisions, made on the basis of….what? Nick Krall cannot publicly defend a lot of his bad decisions, because they were made in a vacuum of intelligent personnel evaluation.
The Castellini’s and the Ownership group will not hire someone who is not at least marginally a “yes” man.
Reds have been a shell of their former selves for 50 years. Good in 1960s. GREAT in 1970s. Not so much since then.
Three times in Reds history have they made playoffs of 3 of 4 years. 1970-72-73. 1973-75-76. 2010-12-13. Except for 1970s, never any sustained period of success.
“You cannot walk away from reading this thinking any of them know what they are doing or know the first thing about building a winning baseball team.”
I concur – Tito is still trying to win in all this mess.
It’s ownership, and will remain ownership unless the next CBA makes a dramatic shift in franchise salary rules.
I think the answer to the Krall matter is in the article – he’s got his list of trades that could have been made, and he can show that to any other team interested in hiring him. We’ll surely never know the contents, so unless it’s entirely mythical, given the constraints he’s had it’s not the matter of incompetence as most seem to argue.
Again – it’s the ownership.
@Optimist, you’re discounting those trades and drafts that Krall did make. We all agree that it’s well past time for the Castellinis to hang it up. But pretending that Krall would be effective under new owners is wishful thinking.
@ LDS
Yes, looking at Nick Krall, he is, AT BEST, a very mediocre baseball professional. He has been promoted above his level of competency. He clings to his job because it will be the LAST baseball job that he has. Nobody will touch him after he departs from the Reds organization.
I would not trust him to scout for me, if I were running a team office.
I’m not discounting them, just arguing that he’s a very small part of the problem. At best, we’ll never know what offsets the obvious mistakes he’s made. At worst, there’s nothing there to offset them.
He’s clearly done as instructed by ownership, and apparently has the files to show as much.
I suppose the only blind test available is for ownership to clean house, and begin anew – anyone have any expectation the results will improve with only that change? Perhaps marginally, but as the Dodgers/Yankees/Mets show at one extreme (spend what you want, get who you want); and the Brewers/Rays/Tribe show at the other (any hints that ownership constrains or disagrees with FO actions?) we’re pretty much speculating on GM competence.
I had the highest expectations when, IIRC, Dick Williams made a series of changes especially in the lower minors/FO – i.e. hiring Boddy, poaching DJ, analytics staffing, etc.. Unless and until he returns to the controlling ownership group I don’t see much change ahead.
I kinda agree, we don’t know if Krall had deals proposed but the egoistical owners said NO we know better or you better make this trade when he didn’t want to.
It doesn’t sound like the baseball people have a great deal of say in the decisions. Yes, some have been poor, but when the 84-year old owner says go get a power hitter because fans like home runs, it really puts the blame squarely on Bob C. I’m not sure that the Front Office has missed a great deal more than other front offices, and I bet most of the other ones get to set the priorities within the budget set by their owners.
Also, you do realize if Krall were to resign like this is some kind of huge moral issue (and it’s not), the big ego calling the shots would replace him with someone less inclined to push back on his failing strategy.
LDS: Your test for Krall could aptly be applied to us–the long-suffering fans. What does it say about us that we continue to agonize about a team that is unwilling to do what is necessary to be relevant?
And for the love of god get Elly out of here and dont waste that young man’s career here. Free Elly.
And another +1,756,319 for Doug with his recap and posting the article so we can all read it (I did so completely). Other than them throwing some shade on QB1, they hit all the right notes in my opinion (which is worth about as much as the points I doll out).
I have no idea what the offseason and CBA discussions will bring. Taking a major bite out of 2027 would be the WORST option for all involved, but in the battle of egos between the Billionaires and Millionaires all bets are off. Hearing the character voice of Shoeless Joe in “Field of Dreams” saying he’d have played for nothing … 😐
158 down, 4 to go. We go out with a whimper no matter what given the overall record. It’s up to Elly and Sal to give us some individual stats to cheer about. Then we head to the season of dreams and speculation.
All I know is that something’s got to change … it is one of the few constants in the universe after all.
We’d like something to change, Mark, but it’s no certainty that it will. Castellini is not the first rich guy to think that his opinion on everything–including things he knows nothing about–is worthy of respect.
I really appreciate your attitude and thoughts on this board. Thank you.
How can the Reds get back to the playoffs in 2027? They made the playoffs in 2025, and they have had a terrible season in 2026. I doubt firing Krall makes much of a difference in 2026. Anyway, it seems he will have the same job in 2027. I do agree the Reds need to follow the example of the Brewers, and if Krall and the owners do not get that now, I think they are going to have a very bad problem with fan support. I agree with Krall’s goal of having a consistent competitive team. He just needs to help make that happen much better. Many fans are calling for him to be fired. If he is here in 2027, this team must make the playoffs.
Brewers. 11 playoff appearances. Ever.
1 AL pennant. Ever.
0 WS titles. Ever.
And made the post season 8 of the last 9 years.
Yeah, “made the playoffs” don’t feed the bulldog.
The BRM made the playoffs 6 times in the 1970s, Won NL pennant 4 times and WS twice.
Making The Playoffs is not the goal.
It is easier to make the playoffs today but it is harder to win a world series today. With more teams and more rounds every team has more chances for it to just not be your day or your week. More chances to run into the hot pitching staff or the lockdown bullpen in a short series. More chances for a key player on your team to get hurt.
Making the playoffs gives you the chance at the crown. And heck yes, I would take several years in a row of the playoffs over no playoffs or no playoff series wins in the last umpteen years. The Brewers are packing the house with solid winning baseball. I would love to have that Saturday night in October on some regular frequency. I don’t need the Dodgers or BRM. An exciting first place team that is competitive in the playoffs works for me Maybe I would change my mind after 6-7 years in a row of not getting to the World Series. Maybe not. Those Hamilton fans seem pretty happy and excited with their LL team making 6 trips to Williamsport.
OldTimer: Yes, the BRM won in the 70’s. While one of the greatest teams of all times, it wasn’t as difficult then with only a division playoff round, and the reserve clause still in place. Tougher to keep a team together today.
I would assume that the Brewers fans are much happier over the last 10 years than Reds fans right now, and the bulldog is starving in Cincy.
Hope that changes OldTimer, but I don’t see it in the near future.
Given our situation, making the playoffs in 2027 is a good start. But heck no, sneaking in because somebody loses 20 in a row doesn’t do it. Bare minimum in my mind is 90+ wins and maybe that will get you 2nd place. But the real first objective is first place and one playoff series win. Then we can flex our muscles and trash talk into 2028. I just don’t know whether this organization is capable of understanding the level of change needed to get to 90+ wins. Barry’s point. In my mind it will require lots of spending, trading of top prospects, and turning our head away from unproductive youth. Gulp. It is not going to happen with 2-3 210 hitters in your lineup. It is not going to happen with any of our mediocre 725 OPS OFs. It is not likely to happen without getting a true #2 starter to replace Greene and #5 starter innings eater to replace Singer. We absolutely can not count on 150 innings from Lowder,Lodolo, and Williamson. Maybe only 1 of them. We are starting to hear the drumbeats that the task is not small. If you don’t want to spend $150M and trade prospects, you are not going to get there barring Arroyo, Hayes, and Bleday each hitting 300. You need better players. Gulp.
Easy answer: https://www.stubhub.com/
One owner – the constant.
Three GMs – the variables
Multiple managers – also variables.
I think I’ll go with the one constant as the most likely major contributor.
Sounds pretty analytical to me. Probably double-plus un-good for the Reds. 🙂
Good brief summary of my comments above.
PS – Also concur with Mark and others – big props to Doug this season, especially the past month as this mess concludes.
Exactly. Everything written today in the Athletic exonerates this front office to a very large degree. Let the #getKralled people live in their bubble.
You must not have read the second half of the article, which blasts Krall on bad moves for several paragraphs.
That implies that nobody is lying.
Yup!
We have 1 hall of fame manager and he can’t make chicken salad out of chicken crap…..David Bell should be the person who is mad this organization ruined his career. I thought he was bad but he managed with bubble gum and duck tape just like Tito
Moderator: Your post was edited. Don’t avoid the swear filters. Just use more 3rd-grade friendly language.
Just responding to this with the hopes you notice that your comment was edited and why.
The Reds are currently like a mixture of the Steelers and Browns from the NFL organizational wise.
The late Walt Jocketty helped bring the Reds one of their best teams ever in 2012. Man that team was good! Some may disagree, but I think Dusty Baker could never lead his team to win the big game still at that time and that’s part of the reason they lost to the Giants. I liked Dusty, but it took him having an incredible 106 win Astros team to finally get over the hump.
But…it’s interesting to me, because it showed the Castellinis were capable of putting together a great team, at least once. I mentioned this before, but perhaps the game kind of passed this organization by for whatever reason after 2013 or so, or they didn’t adapt to all the analytical nature of things.
Cueto getting injured at a catastrophically inopportune time had a great deal to do with Dusty’s “failure.”
They signed Aroldis Chapman in 2010. Traded for Scott Rolen and Mat Latos (among others).
Other people built that team, not really the Castellini’s and Walt Jocketty. They did not draft Joey Votto or Jay Bruce.
They did not trade for Bronson Arroyo. They did not draft Homer Bailey.
They did trade for Matt Latos, and did draft Mike Leake (2010). They did not sign Brandon Phillips when he was put on waivers by Cleveland.
They did not draft Zach Cozart, or Didi Gregorius (although later Gregorious was traded away, which ended up being a bad trade). They did not draft Drew Stubbs.
Jocketty did trade for Scott Rolen, who was also on the backside of his career.
So no, Castellini and Jocketty did not “build” that team. A few key players were added by Walt Jocketty (Ryan Ludwick, Scott Rolen, Matt Latos – at a high cost in players given up).
Mat, not Matt. The Reds got the three best years of his MLB career. The 2012 Reds are the best Reds team of the 21st century.
Lagniappe. Cajun phrase meaning A Little Bit More.
Front office traded for Rolen (HOF) and Latos. Ludwick also.
Drafted Leake and put him right into MLB rotation.
Signed Aroldis Chapman (future HOF maybe).
Traded for Marshall and Broxton. Arredondo, too.
Built a very good bullpen in 2012.
And often overlooked, claimed Simon on waivers. Later traded him for Eugenio Suarez.
Also signed Votto to the largest deal in Reds history…and maybe forever.
We need a good cleansing in Cincinnati. But it won’t come from a Castellini ownership group.
Until they sell out or bring on a new capital infusion and dilute the ownership of the other worthless 19 owners, the front office will stay from within the current group.
As Doug mentioned, it would be one thing if we whiffed in free agency. But we have whiffed on draft and development around here for 5 years – going back to the 2020 draft.
We do ok with the first rounders – and I could argue that college first rounders are developed elsewhere. The high school’s first rounders have been busts – Austin hendrick & Cam Collier (no I don’t count 1 jr he college)
Another problem is we get very little development from the guys taken after the first found compensation picks. The Brewers and Tampa Rays specialize in 3 development areas IMO;
– they develop their 1sr thru 5 round picks
– they shrewdly trade young guys in pre-arb years 1-3 for even younger minor league players or a fringy major league pitcher who is failing (Kyle Harrison, Quinn Priester).
– they are taught to play hard, pitch hard, and be aggressive on base paths at every level – ie, consistent messaging.
This is the major failure of our front office and coaching development staff. I can stomach the occasional free agent miss. I cannot look past that; a.) Almost every player brought up the last 2 years looks like they have no clue how to play hard, and b.) the minors are completely lacking in top end talent (especially pitching).
This has to change – but it won’t unless they clean house from single A coaching to scouts and draft guys to president of baseball ops.
A shift in strategy to a more Brewers/Rays-like model requires a shift in resources away from helping the current Major League roster to scouting and player development. If the Owner insists that every available dollar is spent on improving the next season’s big-league roster, I wouldn’t necessarily blame the scouts and player development people for the Reds’ problems. They are being asked to do their jobs without being resourced as well as the more successful small-market franchises. That’s an Ownership prioritization problem, plain and simple.
Thanks for being a voice of reason. My thoughts too.
+1000000000, BK.
Krall is probably 29th best baseball executive in MLB. Some really head-scratching acquistions and/or trades even if some promising ones were vetoed by BC.
On the other hand, one thing that has always struck me about the Red’s roster building is that they always seem to spend every available dollar to the break-even point each year rather than accepting some lean years during the rebuilds that could be used in years where the team should be more competitive. This kind of strategy, especially given the significant level of resource disparity across the league, can lead to bad signings. So, do you blame the person who signs a player they may not have wanted to pursue if left to their best judgment, or do you blame the one who requires them to spend every dollar available on the upcoming season’s roster?
The Reds are down 7% in Attendance year over year.
This is Deja Vu as the Bengals put out an inferior product for quite some time until they stopped selling out and local channels couldn’t show the game. When it started to hurt their revenue stream, they got busy getting better. Perhaps another drop in bodies in the seats next year they play will spur them to action like it did Mike Brown.
Put me in the suspecious crowd. I want to hear a joint statement that it is bad, it is our problem, and we will fix it and compete with the Brewers next year. I dont want to hear about bad trades and no trades. I already know most of that. How about that you are going to bring in 2-3 800 OPS guys and bridge starting pitcher guys for Greene and Singer. And that Louisville is going to be flooded with ex Reds who will be trying to (re)learn the art of hitting. Save you a little time oon your auditing/evaluation processes.
Just one more little observation from Rosenthal and Rosencrans article: not including the title, which would make ten, they categorized the Reds or another franchise or an aspect of their franchise, such as their TV market, as “small” nine times.
The two teams cited as benchmarks, the Rays and Brewers, prioritize scouting and player development over major league payroll. Think about the implications of adding a salary floor, without a much firmer cap, to the successful small-market franchises. To me, MLB must level the playing field, or teams must retain latitude to deploy their dollars as they see fit.
I can see why Bob would be asking the question since the payrolls he is providing are on par or better than what the Brewers are spending.
Were the Castellini’s on the hone with Krall when he was giving away Gray or Iglesias? Telling the other team this was a salary dump. Or did Nick just let that out while trying to negotiate for better players he got for those 2 players.
You can still do a better job of getting better returns even if you are being forced to trade.
This ownership is bad. Obtuse. Shortsighted. And Krall is also not good enough at his job either to handle it. Beane. The Rays and Brewers GM have to deal with this stuff too.
The only other GM who was bad having to deal with a meddler was the Angels.
As you may recall, they lost a boatload in COVID, and the salary dumps you detailed were delayed a bit while the team appeared to be competitive.
@David – yes Mr. Linder signed Barry Larkin to a “ridiculous” contract, however I would urge you to review the context of that signing. The Operations department (GM) had a trade with the New York Mets to move the soon-to-be HOF shortstop. However, said player lobbied in the press (Cincinnati Enquirer) to stay in Cincinnati. It’s true he was at the end of his career but adamantly believed he should continue to man the shortstop position despite his diminished range (there were others in the organization at the time who were superior at this point in the field). Barry prevailed in the public relations tug. He wasn’t the first to do this and not the last Red either – in fact one his heavily engaged now!
“Reds ownership, front office point at each other for failures”
Oh wouldn’t it be nice to get new owners who actually cared about and new how to win and then cleaned house virtually all the way down?
At least both sides recognize it’s a mess now. lol
Several years ago, I refuted the common complaint that Reds ownership is cheap and their miserly ways kept the club from being competitive. I suggested the real problem set largely at the feet of the organization’s personnel charged with talent evaluation, development, acquisition were not getting the job done. I pointed to some of the clubs (at that time the A’s, Rays, and others) who were consistently competitive year in and out. I pointed to the poor construction of the Reds at that time – a left fielder who couldn’t field (Winkler who is was overweight at the time and was and is anemic against lefthanders), a first baseman who couldn’t field by this time and couldn’t run, and is the all time leader in strike outs for the club …there were too many weaknesses – too many flaws. Look at the Brewers – it’s not an all star team – it’s a team committed to winning by fundamentally sound baseball. They don’t look for high-priced superstars to add to the roster and when they believe they have stars getting long in the tooth (there are exceptions obviously as in their former MVP) they trade them and not “pay them for what they did.” It’s about what you will do.
The first week of this season I advocated (on this board) to trade Mr. Green – that’s how you keep talent by giving up talent. Critical thinking might have revealed that they might have a player on hand who isn’t available nearly enough to be an “ace” not to mention his last start in LA last year as well as his playoff appearance. I also suggested that Mr. Suarez although a fine man – was one-dimensional, a strike-out machine who will struggle to be league average as a fielder. I scoffed when a so-called expert proclaimed that Mr. Stewart would be good at second base – if you watched him run out to his position last year during his call up and observed his movements – you would know that was laughable (admittedly he lost significant weight in the offseason but I’m still incredulous that he will be able to do much more than first base or DH). The problem is most of the Reds team is not assembled well – yes there are some key ingredients but when you have multiple position players who are poor fielders (is Duno the next?) poor runners (or un-coachable divas – can you name a Red who might have fit in this category?) you will struggle to have a consistent winner. Lastly, there are those on this board who suggested Mr. Cruz should return to the minors, be a right fielder, stop his switch-hitting, stop taking risks on the bases, take more days off – etc. Mr. Cruz is a generational talent – his best days are ahead. Not only is he extremely athletic, he is baseball savvy, he has a fantastic attitude, he wants to win and is committed to do his part. Each year he improves – even though he is at the cusp of a 30/30 season he has not reached his peak. Those who decry and fixate on his pink sliding glove do so at their own peril and ignorance. Thank you.
Appreciate the article, comments and the opportunity to vent on this site! We’ll continue to be frustrated fans overall as long as this ownership & mgmt team is in place. No one is taking accountability, simply no leadership at all. Since we haven’t heard the managing partner(s) are interested in selling, the best we can hope for is for them to bring in a proven baseball guy to run the team, and then let him do it. Castellini isn’t listening to Krall so that connection needs to be broken and a new “proven” voice brought in. Will need to pay up to get a qualified exec.
The Reds have had a number of qualified executives since the owner, Powell Crosley, saved the Club for Cincinnati in the 1930’s.
Excellent article, Doug! I did read the C. Trent article this morning. It left me feeling empty with no hope for the future for this team and organization. It pretty much validated what we all knew. How depressing!
I remember back around 2015 or so that Marty B and Tracy Jones were talking on their segment about how much pitching depth the Reds had in the system. Very little of the depth made a lasting impact in the bigs. So it has been an issue of development/scouting for awhile. But the drafting scouting has not been good with minor exceptions the last few years. Where is the outfield depth that can actually hit in the bigs? Or even in the minors?
The Reds keep saying they want to emulate the Brewers and Rays , but they are miles away from them.
But this issue really came to a head in the Kyle S negotiations. One of the questions he asked was about the future direction of the club. He obviously didn’t get a warm and fuzzy feeling from that
Yes indeed. Kyle S. saw a better chance of winning it all with the Phillies than with his boyhood team.
Now that I think about it this might be the very best article Doug has ever written.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2026/09/offseason-outlook-cincinnati-reds-17.html MLB Trade Rumors summary.
Having worked in family-owned businesses my entire career, one thing you learn pretty quickly is how to manage up.
Owners of successful family businesses are generally smart, cost-conscious and very confident in their own judgment. They usually have good reason to be — they built the business. But that can also make it extremely difficult for them to give up control and trust someone else to make decisions differently than they would.
Obviously, the Castellinis didn’t build the Reds, but I think some of the same dynamics apply.
It’s easy for us on the outside to criticize Nick Krall and the front office, and they’ve certainly made mistakes. But I think we also have to acknowledge that Krall appears to be working in a very difficult environment. It’s hard to hold someone completely accountable for results if you’re not willing to give him the authority to make the decisions he’s being held accountable for.
That’s where I think ownership needs to look in the mirror.
If you hire baseball people to run your baseball operation, give them a budget, establish expectations and hold them accountable for the results. But then let them make baseball decisions. If they fail, replace them.
What doesn’t work is hiring people for their expertise, overruling them when you disagree, and then asking why the organization isn’t getting better.
For the Castellinis, that may require swallowing some pride and accepting that owning the baseball team doesn’t necessarily mean you’re the most qualified person in the room to make baseball decisions.
These are 2 national baseball writers and talking heads for them to drop the article about our Reds tells me that MLB wants the Castellini to shape up or ship out. The Reds owners were basically blasted as completely incompetent on a national news article. We have a few very nice players but are wasting their talents on a last place team. If you look at next year unless our roster is overhauled our over under on wins is around 74 or worse. From my perspective interesting time for the article to drop after the Larkin and Votto comments.
We have two very good players in Burns and Stewart. We have a superstar in De La Cruz. All three combined are making less than $3 M. If you can’t build a winning team around players like that right now WHEN can you build one?
I think your point is very accurate if the rest of team was close to league average we would have had another 10 or 13 wins which makes close to a playoff team. You could argue $100m of salary was spent on well below league average hitting and pitching. I think we could argue that Bob is not responsible for all these bad contracts.
My take on the Athletic article.
Bob Castellini asking the right question every year, but not accepting the answer. The answer…trade your good players at their peak to replenish your farm.
Post covid, I believe it was Phil who said the strategy going forward was to build from within, going away from Williams FA approach with Castellanos, Moose, and Akiyama. OK, so, again, trade your good players at their peak to replenish your farm. That also means, don’t trade your prospects for 1 or 2 year rentals.
Quite honestly I can see how this would be hard for Bob, who is probably old school, to accept. You got a star, he’s bringing in the fans, you probably like the idea of ‘family’ (I know, a sentiment that many here think stupid), and there is certainly a logic to keep a core player or two to build around (how’s that worked for the Angels).
I can see how this puts Krall in a tight spot. Don’t trade your prospects and don’t trade your stars….oh, and here’s some pennies to go buy what you need. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Krall is a really good GM…just maybe not as bad as many portray him to be…I think those teams that spend hugh amounts of $$ and still are bad have worse GMs.
So basically, the organization is schizophrenic. They need to commit up and down the organization to a strategy. Given the financials, that probably means build from within. First of all that means deciding what kind of team you want to field…sluggers, contact guys, great pitchers with good stuff or good control, great defenders…and then comitting the necessary resources to find the right prospects and to successfully develop them for what you need them for…bring them up and then sign them early (if you can) to extend their control and make them attractive to trade in year 5 or 6….and replenish. And to do this in such a way that every year you have 2 or 3 players to bring up each year to replace the stars you trade. Not easy.
Bear with me for one final comment. This strategy calls for trading EDLC sooner than later. It also means no more Reds lifers…which makes some of Votto’s and Larkin’s comments curious, since it would have meant neither would have played their careers with one team…which both seem to have valued.
Isn’t Elly different than Votto and Larkin? I understand your point but doesn’t he have the potential to surpass them and be so much more valuable? I could come close to making the case that he very well could exceed them and be the value of a Juan Soto. Don’t we think he has the potential to have a PCA MVP type year in 2027 and maybe a few more times? Gold glover, 900 OPS, 40 HRs, 30 SBs? The Cubs just signed PCA for a very affordable amount. We signed Joey Votto for 11 years. The only thing I see that Elly wants that we can’t seem to provide is a chance at the crown. We have known for years that his market price was only going to continue to increase. This is on us to find a way. I just see this as potentially different than Votto or Larkin. This is a potential multi year MVP. I think you are more likely to win 90+ games in 2027-2028 than you are in 2029 when he is gone and you are left with prospects. Isn’t that the question on the table?
The main problem with Elly is his agent is Scott Boras.
Boras has a very clear policy of NEVER letting his clients sign long-term deals with their original teams. He always wants them to hit free agency at the first possible chance and get the maximum value on the free market.
If that wasn’t what Elly wanted to do, he wouldn’t have Boras as his agent.
Players choose their agents and hopefully understand and agree with the agent’s philosophy when they agree to be represented.
Exactly.
As I said, if Elly wasn’t planning to hit free agency first chance he gets, he wouldn’t have Scott Boras as his agent.
The fact that his agent IS Scott Boras should perfectly telegraph what is going to happen when the time comes.
All the more reason to trade him before it comes to that.