A whole lot of Reds fans are happy that the game was on Apple TV and that they didn’t spend time tuning in on Friday night because the game was over by the the time the 3rd inning began and it just got worse from there. Milwaukee pounded out 23 hits in a 20-0 win that clinched a playoff spot.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cincinnati Reds (69-78) | 0 | 2 | 1 |
| Milwaukee Brewers (92-56) | 20 | 23 | 1 |
| W: May (7-9) L: Abbott (6-11) | |||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
Milwaukee got on the board early on Friday night. Jackson Chourio led off with a double and then took third base on a bunt single by Brice Turang. A sacrifice fly brought Chourio in to score. Andrew Vaughn then doubled in Turang to make it 2-0.
Things got so much worse for Andrew Abbott in the 2nd inning. The first two hitters singled. Jackson Chourio drove in a run with a ground-rule double with one out. Brice Turang then hit a 3-run home run. A 2-out single kept the inning alive for Jake Bauers and he came through with a 2-run home run to cap off a 6-run inning as the home team took an 8-0 lead.
Milwaukee tacked on another run in the 4th inning thanks to a walk and two singles. Cincinnati almost got that run back in the top of the 5th inning, but right fielder Luis Lara made a leaping catch in right center to rob Eugenio Suarez of a home run.
Luis Mey recorded the final out of the 4th inning for the Reds. Things went about as wrong for him as they could in the 5th. He gave up three straight singles to start the inning before giving up a double. William Contreras then singled to make it five straight hits. Mey then struck out the next two batters before giving up a single and then a walk to load the bases. Garrett Mitchell then hit a grand slam to cap off an 8-run inning that made it 17-0.
Jose Trevino, the Reds catcher and blowout reliever, took the mound and tossed a shutout 7th inning. He returned for the 8th inning and gave up a 3-run home run to William Contreras as Milwaukee made it a nice, round 20-0. That would wind up being the final score of the game.
Key Moment of the Game
Probably one of the four multi-run innings that the Brewers had in the game.
Notes Worth Noting
Two different pitchers – Andrew Abbott and Luis Mey – were charged with eight earned runs in the game. They combined to record nine outs. Mey, however, did strand two inherited runners in the game. He had previously allowed all eight of the inherited runners this season to score.
The Reds had two hits. Both were by Sal Stewart. The rest of the team went 0-26 with two walks.
Cincinnati has been outscored 34-1 in the last two games.
Milwaukee has reached the playoffs eight times in the last nine years. The last time the Reds won a playoff series 21 of the 28 players on the active roster were not alive.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Cincinnati Reds vs Milwaukee Brewers
Saturday September 12th, 7:10pm ET
Brady Singer (6-13, 5.03 ERA) vs TBA
In the last 2 games, Sal is 4 for 7. The rest of the team is 4 for 55.
In the famous words of Tommy Boy…
Holy Schnikes!
I heard that in Tommy’s voice lol
“Reds get embarrassed on national TV, lose 20-0 to Milwaukee”
The only time Bob & Phil C. ever really change anything meaningful is when they get embarrassed. It takes a lot but when it does happen things do change. We’ll see if this is enough.
The thing is it didn’t matter if the Brewers scored 20 runs or one run. We wouldn’t have won anyway.
Couldn’t get the running game or the passing game going tonight, and then the defense didn’t show up either.
Yeah. As in football our defense really let us down. 🙂
Perfect.
Sixty years of Reds Baseball for me. Never spent a day not loving our Reds. However, I’ve never been more disappointed in a season than this year. IMO, it’s time to move on from personnel management and on the field leadership. Please.
What do you believe field leadership can do when the talent of the players is lacking?
They have scored double digits many times. The talent is there.
I hate to say it but I am actually looking forward to the lockout. Not only that but I hope it lasts a LONG LONG time. These games are hard to watch for sure
Same here. Close it down as far as I’m concerned. We can’t be any worse.
Fellas I gotta say that reading comments like this that basically (even indirectly) suggesting that I lose like 90% of my income sucks.
Doug, if you keep putting up content, I’ll keep showing up several times a day.
Doug- just write something everyday about the Reds or baseball. We will comment.
With absolutely no news going on that’s going to be tough to do. There will be no rumors of this player is on the market in trades or that player is talking about signing with this team or that team. Trade and free agent rumors are pretty much the life blood of traffic in the offseason. Ad rates in January and February are laughably low, too, because everyone spent all of their money in November and December for Christmas, so no company really does ad spends after Christmas for a bit. So sites that are just running purely on ads like this one does will do well on an ad-rate basis in November and December because of that, but the ad rates are like 1/3rd of those when the new year begins. November and December are basically going to be full of absolutely nothing news worthy. If I had to guess, there’s going to be a month or maybe even two or three where this site doesn’t make $1,000.
” If I had to guess, there’s going to be a month or maybe even two or three where this site doesn’t make $1,000.”
Maybe have discussions on the Big Red Machine, Wire To Wire etc.? At least they would be “feel good” discussions. 🙂
My first and only article: The 1990 Reds were not Wire-to-Wire Champions!
It’s always bothered me that they were called that since they were down one game to none in the NLCS.
“It’s always bothered me that they were called that since they were down one game to none in the NLCS.”
See? There’s a start. 🙂
I understand that fact Doug. That is why I really hate to say it but that really is my true feeling
Just wish you had this site during the brm era. Imagine the traffic you would have had
You know that you don’t just have to say everything you feel right? Especially around people where what you say could negatively affect them.
I’d hate to have a lockout. I enjoy baseball, even when the Reds are competing, which is all too often.
I might suggest you put in a vote for better baseball instead of no baseball.
I think we could all go for some better baseball after the last few days. Been a rough one watching these games this week.
Well the last two games have been ugly but this team gave up in LA. These last four games have shown the deficiencies of the team and organization because they are playing against the best in MLB. Up to ownership to make corrections or they won’t have many fans when they come back from a labor dispute.
@Doug. That’s not going to happen. Everybody is in a frenzy like me. Things will get back to normal for us reds fans when the front office and scouting are looking for new employment
We’ve known for some time that the Reds don’t have enough talented players available to really contend, Charles, but let’s not forget that they did just beat the Brewers two out of three. The team is making a good case for being short-sighted and living in the moment.
no,
30+ years without a post season series win, is proof enough.
The FO, and the ownership has no clue of how to win.
I have to look at the Crew (makes me sick to say), but on a similar salary they are very competitive year in and out.
EIther drafting is very very bad (look at the number of non-first round picks that made the majors over the last 20 years), and the Reds dead last.
Player development or drafting stinks.
It’s one thing to lose and have a down year, but these last 2 games…boy, that’s embarrassing. Some commented, you almost wonder if the league would step in a bit with Trevino pitching two games in a row. I don’t think they should, but that’s not a good thing for the integrity of the game to have a team like the Reds getting beat this bad, and pitching a position player back to back games. I think it happened earlier this year as well where Trevino pitched back to back games?
Trevino is having a bit of a down year pitching wise, so that doesn’t help as well!
I feel for the players a bit. They have to be embarrassed, as they’re pros.
You see these last few games, and I start lean more towards a rebuild. I wonder too about Elly, if he’d request a trade at some point this offseason, especially if the Reds just continue to get embarrassed often these last few weeks. He’s a smart guy, he can sense most likely if they are going to be able to compete or not next year, 2028, etc.
I think also if there were a front office change, I’d move on from Francona too. You’d want the new front office to pick their own guy. I liked the Francona move and respect him, but a young former player in their 40s for example may bring another kind of fresh energy as well.
I guess on the positive…you can bounce back quickly in baseball, so maybe the Reds will play better, more competitively these next few games.
Very good points Jermiah. The league loses legitimacy with these type of games
It exposes the lack of talent league wide
Not a good look
Burning out your #1 Catcher for 2027 by pitching him daily in 2026. Dont be surprised when Trevino has a truncated spring due to elbow/shoulder issues. I can hear Tito now…..”We just need to get him healthy and we will be ok. He is just different. Our pitching staff acts different when he is behind the dish. Once we get him healthy and playing every day, we will see a change in the pitching staff.”
Thanks, Tito.
I know that you are tongue and cheek here, but Trevino puts more stress on his arm and shoulder throwing the ball back to the pitcher,
He is just playing toss!
What is the difference between the Reds and Brewers as far as resources?
I am certain on one thing. The Brewers manager, Pat Murphy, manages a game about as well as I’ve seen. He also says it like it is. I saw the quote about the demotion of Brandon Sproat yesterday after Sproat walked four of five batters he faced in the 9th inning of the Brewers against the Cubs on Wednesday.
“It’s unacceptable,” Brewers manager Pat Murphy said after the game. “You’ve got to throw the ball over the plate, or you can’t be a major league pitcher.”
Basic accountability, what a novel concept. Tito seems to think asking more of them might screw them up. This week he said: “If you start asking guys, with what they do, to do something different, then you run the risk of losing what they do well and don’t do anything.”
Now it makes sense.
How many world series championships does Murphy have?
Calling players out in the media does no good whatsoever. I mean they know they are struggling etc. These are grown men playing a game. Being called out or bashed by a manager/coach does nothing.
+100000000, Kevin.
Different team, and a different era.
Comparing apples to oranges.
How many post seasons searies have the Reds won in the last 30 years???
Problem is the Reds have nobody to promote and the Brewers do.
These last two games have been an absolute humiliation.
Just going to say… What the heck! Geez. Really glad I didn’t watch the game. Also, I don’t know if I can go into work tomorrow now and face all the Brewers Fans that are at my job in Wisconsin.
Watching 21 year old rookie Luis Lara clown on the Reds after robbing the home run really ticks me off. Anyone in that locker room with a pulse should feel the same. This is a rare instance where old school rules have their place.
Gotta love the article touting Tito’s ‘winning ways trickle down’ on the Reds site the same day as this disaster.
Totally pathetic
The next worst team in our division has a -12 run differential…..for the season. We topped that tonight. I would expect significant changes this winter.
Ha! Phil wont change a thing. Too many casual fans lining up for bobbleheads, staying for concerts and fireworks.
There are a bunch of diehard fans that line up for bobbleheads and go to the concerts and fireworks too.
Thats a problem, tbh.
Name a team that doesn’t have concerts and bobbles.
Just eleven more innings and Trevino qualifies as a two-way player. I’m sensing a strategy behind these lopsided losses.
And we usually have to use a top ten pick on a pitcher to see them in the majors lol
Would he count against their 13-pitcher regular season roster limit then?
He could. Just think how easy it would be to carry a third catcher 🙂
Man you’re on top of it. lol
The only thing I want as a takeaway from this game is that guy from the Elias Sports Bureau to tell me if the Reds have ever been shutout in a game where the opponent scored at least 20 runs.
[A partial answer is that there has been only 7 games in the modern era where a shutout has been achieved with MORE than 20 runs scored. One of those games was on August 18 when the Brewers put up 22 and the blank against the Mariners.]
Reds were riding high heading into LA series. Offense was humming, scoring 5-6 runs a game. Brito and HRod and Meyers were hitting ahead of Elly, who was going scorching hot. And then the most idiotic event of the year happened: Hayes came back from IL and was inserted into line up immediately, like he’s a star that would help the team. He committed 2 errors costing the Reds the first game in LÀ and Reds went on this current slide.
ALL OF THE SUDDEN REDS HAVE SP PROBLEM. I said this exact same thing recently and it’s worth repeating, this time in all cap. Lodolo and Abbott are a gigantic disappointment this year.
Considering the amount of high draft capital used on the pitching staff it is an utter disappointment. Lodolo and Greene aren’t reliable, Abbott has fallen off. They will be forced to use a QO on Singer, who will def take it, cause they can’t produce their own league average starters. They also have shown no ability to produce their own bullpen pitchers who aren’t just unreliable failed starters who get hurt all the time.
a qo on a pitcher with a 5+ ERA.
Only the Reds would do that. Just like last time.
That would not be a good idea at all.
I’ve read an article from Ken Rosenthal in the Athletic mentioning about possible coaching staffs,managers,and front office changes that will likely occur during the off season he mentions several teams that are obvious such as the Mets,Angels,Mariners,Giants,Astros,Athletics,and maybe the Phillies but when the national baseball media speculate about possible changes Nick Krall and Brad Meador names never come up based on their overall resumes.It seems that they view the Reds ownership of the Castellini’s as too conservative as a mid to small market level franchise to think outside the box enough to bring in someone from the outside the organization to give them the authority to make the proper personnel decisions.
Much like the players we put on waivers, no one is interested in our FO staff. Which, you would think, would make an ownership group think….. If no one else wants them, why do we have them?
Cincinnati has been outscored 34-1 in the last two games.
Is that bad? That sounds like it might be bad.
I’d say it’s evidence that they are 0-2.
Hmmm could be.
33rd loss of 5 or more runs.
Same old song. Sal and Elly can’t do it all. Time to move on from Hayes, McLain, Friedl, Bleday. Way too many holes in the lineup.
At this point in September, name their replacements on the roster.
That is absolutely correct. The Reds have more W than L when Hayes is in the lineup. But those words are accompanied by others like But He Is Not The Reason.
The Reds pitchers are lousy. The Reds bench is lousy. Half the Reds hitters are lousy. Their W-L record is not Hayes’ fault. Period.
Well according to someone on this site, The reds have a winning record with Hayes in the lineup. WE need more players like him. Id rather them play anyone else at 3rd.
Facts (not me) show the Reds with more W than L when Hayes plays.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=hayeske01&t=b&year=2026 Reds are 46-35 when Hayes plays. Reds are 23-43 when he doesn’t play. He is not the sole reason for either.
I know he is not the reason, so why do you keep bringing it up. There are tons of reasons. The same way you brought up Luke Weaver in 2023 what their record was. He had a 7 era and the reds scored tons of runs when he was pitching. Coincidence. So if he is not the reason quit telling us their record with him in the lineup, McLain, Hayes, friedl, Marte and many others are the reason. So when you keep telling us the w-l record with Hayes its meaningless.
I didn’t. YOU DID.
The Reds won 12 of 21 starts by Weaver in 2023. That’s 57% W-L.
The Reds won 70 of 141 starts by others in 2023. That’s 49% W-L.
He was not the reason why the Reds were so-so in 2023.
No sorry you do! Everytime someone mentions Hayes name you bring up the win loss record. Its absolutely Meaningless!!! Im done arguing with you, the stats are meaningless. Period! I know you are smarter than me so I wont comment on anything because you always tell me how wrong I am. Your right I don’t know anything about baseball, I played division 1 baseball starting at shortstop and a year in the minors, but you have all the facts, I will never question you again.
Facts: Hayes -0.5 bWAR, -0.9 fWAR. The Reds have a winning record when he plays, despite his poor performance. Overall, he has been a drag on the Red’s team this year.
In 2023, Luke Weaver netted a -0.7 bWAR and 0.2 fWAR. He, too, was a net drag on the Reds during his one season with them.
Continuing to imply that either player helped or is helping the Reds by citing a single metric that runs counter to multiple broad measures of said player’s value comes across as deliberately deceptive. The team’s won/loss record with Weaver in 2023 and Hayes in 2026 is interesting but not informative.
“Facts (not me) show the Reds with more W than L when Hayes plays.”
What is the Reds record in day games, night games, warm temps, color of uniforms? etc. Just playing with ya but you get me point. 😉 One could argue that their record, considering the stats of Hayes, would be even better had he not been playing.
It’s time to swap Mey for Phillips. Mey had his short run and now it’s over. Maybe Connor can have 2 weeks run this time.
Phillips has a 5.61 in AAA. Hard pass.
If it makes anyone feel any better, Milwaukee blitz krieged the Seattle Mariners by the score of 22-0 last month.
No, not really. Seattle let their shortstop take a 9 run beating in the last inning. So, we gave up more “legitimate” runs at 17-13.
As a Reds fan since the mid 1940’s, I can’t recall such an embarrassing defeat. Whoever is in charge of Red’s managing ownership must make changes in the front office to put together a well-rounded competitive team, not a team with emphasis on just one facet of the game.
There are three ways to improve the team. Trade for better players. Develop better players in the minor leagues. Sign better FA.
The Reds have few trade chips. The Reds have a shortage of talent at AAA and AA in the minors. Few top shelf FA have ever signed with the Reds.
I punched out when they were down 6-0. Glad I did. This is simply embarrassing. When Bleday & EDLC nearly collided early in the game, I suspected things would be rocky. Oh well, there’s always next year, or the year after that. In the meantime, there’s always the Dayton team that wins despite being in the Reds’ organization.
Hah, I gave up after Sal got the hit in the first inning. I just tune in these days to make sure they aren’t being no-hit.
I’m glad Dayton still has pro-baseball and a real nice ballpark. I grew up just south of the great City of Dayton, home of the Wright Brothers and many other notable people.
Most of those notable people and companies left Dayton. At least they have the Dragons!
People may disagree but I think the Reds need a major rebuild. First a new general manager and then a new much younger manager. Tito lucked into the playoffs last year and this year has been a total disaster. Of course new ownership would help but that will not happen. It’s hard to admit that the Tito hires was a mistake but the facts are the fundamentals on this team are no better than they were under Bell. I for one would not mind trading Elly for a huge hall right now. They are so far away that getting 3 or 4 young players for Elly might be the way to start a total rebuild.
Ironically the people I know would totally disagree. What would you do Mark? With the roster construction given to Francona. They made playoffs last year. End of story. The narrative some put out here is truly laughable.
A new manager isnt the answer or the problem it is the Gm on up!! Give up a haul for Elly then what? Watcg those prospects flame out? Been there done that with the last rebuild which boggled my mind.
No, Francona isnt the issue and its not even close.
Trade Elly after getting a new GM. Definitely don’t want Krall to have anything to do with it. I see no chance to either sign Elly to an extension, or be a strong contender while he is still here.
And despite this being Doug’s livelihood, the union needs to be broken and a salary cap instituted to help even the playing field. A failure to remedy it will wane my interest in the Reds. For why follow the team closely when there is almost zero chance they can win it all.
Does nobody even bother to look at the data on the pitches Turang and Teoscar hit consistently? That is a dugout staff problem, and there’s no getting around it.
Backed into playoffs and then quickly sent home. Tito is a problem. He has his favorites and wont ask struggling players to change their habits.
Bigger problems than Tito for sure but he aint helping
There will be no salary cap. If the “union is broken” as you suggest, baseball will be done. MLB barely survived the 1994 debacle. It will not survive another.
The Reds did a major rebuild in 1981. They had a strong farm system, but the MLB players were not good (in 1982). They were competitive in 1985-86-87-88 and won WS in 1990 in large part because of that farm system and a key trade (Franco for Myers) and a new manager (Piniella).
The Reds today do not have a strong farm system at AAA or AA level and have few trade chis to offer.
We had (past tense) a bunch of trade chips to offer but we have a trade GM who did not to trade his youth/prospects. Just last winter, there were all those rumblings about trading Greene for Buxton., and how Krall said wasn’t a done deal. I also recall the Mets badly seeing Connor Phillips. And this spring sitting on the red hot Arroyo when the Reds had no real position available for him. And we still have top draft picks Lodolo, Greene, Williamson, and Lowder who we are still waiting on and he has made no effort to move. Today, I doubt they have anything near the value we need to acquire a Buxton like player.
You are right in that our meaningful trade chips continue to dwindle. We are probably down to our top 3-4 prospects and maybe HRod. I doubt Steer or Abbott reaches anything close to those levels. And I don’t think Sal, Burns, or Elly will be offered. We turned down the Red Sox trade offer of 4 top prospects for Elly this summer. Some of those studs weren’t arriving until 2029 and I would have turned that down too. Our problem is we have a front office totally committed to present tense and these failed prospects. The only way out is super spending and trading of our top prospects. IMO.
The front office does not have a good perspective on trading star players in a rebuild. Does Aroldis Chapman ring a bell here? Caleb Cotham, Rookie Davis, Eric Jagielo, and Tony Renda. What a haul!?
That was a different front office. And it was under very different circumstances, too, where the ownership stepped in and said “get rid of him” after the whole situation.
Almost none of those 2026 players are good trade chips.
Top level FA do not often sign with the Reds.
Aroldis Chapman was damaged (reputation) goods when he was traded. The Reds did not get anywhere near his true value.
I know people are mad at everybody but you got to at least give Tito a pat on the back. Look at the team this guy has been given and there is nobody in AAA to help him. The Starting Pitching has been a major disappointment this year. The Relief pitching has been terrible except for a few guys and the offense has been horrendous. The guy has to send out at least 2 below .200 hitters a game and sometimes 4. The team is so bad he has to hit Bleday at the top of the order most games. This is a really bad team and there is no help in AAA to fix it. They would have to sign a lot of good Free Agents this winter and the Castellinis are not opening their purses for that. More bobbleheads ,Concerts and free T-shirts will get people to the stadium and is cheaper than shelling out millions for more Suarez’s. If they didn’t get Joey help then they aren’t getting Elly help. This team isn’t winning in the next few years and Elly will be gone. He isn’t staying here to watch other teams celebrate when clinching. Winners don’t like losing.
@ JB,
ESPN has an article up on how historically bad the FA pool for 2027 is. Reds have no way to get better in 2027- internally or externally.
Their farm system is poor and no one capable of bringing back an impact player. SP is suddenly weak. Bullpen can be rebuilt to some degree but not meaningfully and the offense may be as bad next year if Stephenson is gone. Folks piled on Suarez all year but he actually won some games for them and his power bat will be gone.
They would lose 100 games next year if they played 162, which they wont.
This isnt a manager problem or coaches problem. This is Gm and up problem.
I for one am tired of trading good players for prospects only to see prospects flame out. If Reds arent willing to pay good free agents. It will be same next year etc.. Again Sal and Elly can’t do it alone.
Thank goodness college football is on today and NFL tomorrow.
The Bengals need to get off to a good start. I think this is Joe Burrow’s year to bring a Super Bowl championship to Cincinnati.
Bingo. Although it might not be “as good”. We need to remember that we need to replace Stephenson, Singer, Lowe, Suarez, and Burke in kind just to get to ground zero. And while Greene didn’t contribute much in 2026, he was penciled in as our #1/#2 starter. That is a void for 2027 that need to be addressed, possibly as part of the Singer replacement; I.e. one $25M replacement instead of a $15M replacement.
The front office is going to have to pick its upgrade spots after addressing the replacements for the gone. Examples might be 2B. McLain, Arroyo or significant upgrade? CF? Myers, Dunn, or significant power upgrade? 3B? Move on from Hayes? Stay with Geno?
The C position is interesting. An I kind replacement is not going to be cheap and Tyler is so much better than Trevino. I think I might sign Tyler for 3 years at $30-40M and then look at moving him after 2027 or 2028 when Duno is a more known commodity. Certainly wouldn’t expect to lose any money in this exchange. Cs like Tyler are premium pieces especially when they have 1-2 years contract life remaining. Bare minimum, we must replace Tyles offense in kind ……750 OPS.
Additive comment. I see no chance of the front office trading Elly if it is their choice. That would take them completely out of any 2027-2028 playoff hopes. Ticket sales would plummet. Maybe more importantly is the face of total incompetence. Maybe equally important is Sal. Is he going to realize he may be treated similarily? Maybe a contract offer but no playoffs and only a ticket sale pawn? Think it would have to be an over the top offer for me to give up playoff ambitions.
All the elements are lining up for a sale. Even Big Bob at his late age and arrogant Son probably realize that they and their minions have neither the resources, existing talent, or strategery needed to build even a competitor at this stage. The existing lease through 2026 would stay intact, most likely, but afterwards, ?? I don’t think the FO would have any problem at all getting that billion dollar payoff.
lease through 2036!
I was at the game last night and will be there tonight. Living in the Chicago ‘burbs, it takes about an hour to get there. Brewer fans are awesome. Always good, friendly people. As embarrassing as it was last night, it was sorta of fun watching the whole stadium celebrate. After the 1st inning, some random Brewer fan was buying me and the wife a beer. They just wanted us to celebrate with them. Brewer fans even made the walk to the hotel fun.
I’ve been to Wisconsin a couple times and enjoyed it. I attended a Brewers game with the Phillies and got a good seat which happened to not be far from the Phillies GM at that time.
Did you try the bratwurst (different than Cincinnati bratwurst) with the special stadium sauce. Not sure what’s in it but it’s delicious.
Maybe Phil should open an out door restaurant at GABP during the shutdown.
I missed that in Milwaukee. Probably only had a couple hot dogs and a brew. Cincinnati and Milwaukee have a lot in common, certainly historically, with many beer breweries and bratwurst.
Gotta say even though I don’t follow the Brewers at all, it is the closest ballpark to me. Every time I go see a Reds / Brewers game it normally is a up and down battle the entire game. Fans there are super cool and friendly every time, even if the Reds are winning, they will chat it up with you. Hopefully in the last 2 games of this series the team at least doesn’t embarrass themselves again. I expect the Voodoo Brewers to win every day. It was a shock last series when we took 2 of 3.
The Reds’ season is all but over and a last place finish is to be expected. Treat the next two weeks as a trial for next season, if there is one. Wins and Losses are almost meaningless for the next two weeks. Except maybe a couple more losses could move the Reds up a couple places in the draft order. The other 90% of the year brings up more questions. What has gone wrong with Andrew Abbott, is he losing velocity, is he tipping pitches. Is Rhett Lowder a bonafide ML pitcher, can Luis Mey or any number of other young arms be counted upon in the future. How much longer do you play MM in hopes of somehow unlocking a hitter. Who will catch in 2027 if not Stevenson. Are Nick Lodolo’s best days behind him after so many blister issues that he has had to change the grip on his pitches. Who plays 3B, can that be Sal Stewart, how much rope do you give Terry Francona because the talent on this team is lacking, what will OF look like. How long do you ride with Elly before trading him for a needed haul of talent, has the current FO earned the chance to lead another failed rebuild? Why do too many of the recent Reds fail to make the jump from minors to majors. see Rece Hinds, CES, Edwin Arroyo, Nolevi Marte, Connor Phillips and others. That this team underachieved is not because they did not add a player or two at the deadline or because KBH is not a ML level hitter. The roster is not good and it is going to take some tough decisions to improve this team enough to even be competitive against the likes of the Dodgers or Brewers. Too, teams like the Pirates and Cards are trending upwards while the Cubs and Brewers show no signs of regression. Other than maybe Sal Stewart and Elly I don’t see any untouchables on the starting 8. And of the starting pitchers, only Chase Burns should be guaranteed a spot moving forward. Just wish it weren’t so, but the current state of this team is not good and it pains me to watch the continued train wreck that is this team.
This train wreck of a team is .500 since the ASG in July. But 2027 does not look good.
.500 since All Star break! Pop the champagne!
From 1970-1995 we didn’t celebrate a .500 half season.
Nobody said that. The Reds are 69-78. That .469 W-L record. The Reds have had that % or worse in more than half of the prior 25 seasons (2001 to 2025).
Just do you think anyone is celebrating or do you think oldtimer was just pointing out that there might be an overreaction to the level the team is or has been playing at?
It has not been fun or easy to watch but they have won as many as they have lost in the second half and the way some people are acting you would think they were 10-40 in the second half.
Sorry .500 is nothing to celebrate.
Even without the 14-1 and 20-0 debacles, the Reds are still far underwater as far as run differential goes. They are much closer to the Rockies than any of the winning teams. If you want to use arbitrary dates, how about Reds record since May 1st? Nowhere near .500. Most of their wins were wins were the 2-1 or 3-2 variety. Can you really look at that roster and see a winning record over the entire season. Runs scored is below most, team BA is near bottom, strikeouts by hitters are some of the most, team ERA is much worse than most. Team defense is poor. I don’t know how Tito held this team together, and maybe now wheels are coming off. Just very discouraging when on any given day, 4 starters are batting less than .200 and Lodolo, Singer and Lowder all have losing records and inflated ERAs Then, there is the lack of talent in upper minors, especially pitching; Mey, Phillips and Petty have all pretty much looked very hittable in the ML, while Arroyo, Hinds, CES, Marte and others have not made the transition to the ML. Hate to be such a downer, but a lot of work is needed to make this team competitive or even a championship team again.
@TennTom You nailed almost every issue and I would add a couple of potential salary items is that we have a lot of dead money on books with Hunter Greene in 2027 $15.3M and KBH through 2030 is another $29M, On Hunter Greene if he does not come back healthy in 2028 then you can another $18.3M through 2029. Not sure this ownership group will want to spend a lot more to make up for these roster spots.
Maybe this abashed defeat has a silver lining in the hopes it pushes Big Bob into the realization it’s time to get out. The only remedy for this team are new owners.
New ownership may also result in a move to another city.
I believe the lease runs through 2037 on GABP. I think since GABP was funded by taxpayers in Hamilton County maybe the county will take that risk on new ownership. At that point it is quite possible they will move onto greener pastures like Nashville and Charlotte. A lot can happen with population demographics. I have lived in Central Ohio most of my life besides 7 years in Nashville. Both of those cities are projected to have a lot more growth than SW Ohio and Northern KY.
The franchise is going nowhere … at least until their highly favorable lease is up.
Sorry at this point let them move. Even though I don’t think they can until like 2035 or something like that.
“The franchise is going nowhere … at least until their highly favorable lease is up.”
This franchise is going nowhere period. I agree.
Melvin, I certainly hope the franchise stays in Cincinnati long-term. I will never hope for the Reds to move, and I don’t live in/near Cincinnati, and I never have. However, I have been there many times, and the Reds are a tightly entwined part of the fabric of the city. Moreover, the Reds are just a historic franchise within the league. From my perspective, it would be a real shame to see them ever move. I don’t want anything I ever say to imply that I want to see them go to another city.
“I don’t want anything I ever say to imply that I want to see them go to another city.”
Yep. They’re a MLB staple.
I wish I had a nickel for every time I’ve read this assertion. The implication is that everything changes with new owners. Now, I don’t think this ownership group has done a good job, but most think new owners will spend more. The Reds have outspent their market size/franchise value (the best measure of revenue/revenue growth/potential revenue growth). A new owner will be saddled with the same structural disadvantages. Some of this could improve with meaningful changes in revenue sharing and that doesn’t necessarily take a salary cap and floor to implement, but it must change..
When evaluating ownership, last offseason provides a good case study of why the structural issues in baseball must be fixed. Remember the Reds made a good-faith effort to sign Schwarber, who preferred the Phillies. He chose the Phillies because they can afford a better roster. BTW, that’s the same reason Shohei Ohtani chose the Dodgers–he recognized the opportunity to recruit a couple more Japanese stars and build a super roster. The Reds have also made a good-faith effort to extend EDLC–he declined. One has to wonder how things might have worked out if the Reds were on equal footing in the free-agent market and not relegated to signing second-tier free agents or bounceback candidates.
Definitions of good faith are different. Why would $60M from LA be any different than $60M from downtown Cincy? The Reds hold Elly for the next 3 years. And his pay rate will be established by arbitration whether he is in Cincy or LA. After 2029, if left unsigned he probably will go to the highest bidder …..which we will not even be part of the bidding.
My personal view is that Elly would love to stay in Cincy with a competitive team and a fair amount of money (as determined by the market). The Cubs just paid PCA $25M for 5-6 years. He is on Elly’s level and we certainly can afford that and more. Now if we don’t want to pay Elly $300M for 8-10 years, that is a whole different matter than a good faith offer. If we don’t want to pay him his due, then why are we screwing around with this farce of being a championship contender? Because we want ticket sales and not to dissuade Sal’s view of the organization pay rates and championship desire. Personally, I think Elly is going to push his chips in this winter. Build a winner around me now or let me go to someone who wants to win. A couple playoff series wins and Ellys view of Cincy is only going to get better. PCA didn’t have any problem signing for something less than his true value because the Cubs are trying to win.
By “good faith,” I mean market-competitive offers. Reputable reports stated that the Red’s offer to EDLC would have been the most money for a player with his service time, while setting a new franchise record as well. He turned it down, as is his right. Also, the current CBA gives EDLC no leverage to do as you suggest and demand a trade. So, some of the assumptions that underpin your perspective are not backed up with known facts.
According to Forbes, the Cubs are the fourth most valuable franchise and have about 80 percent more revenue. So, yes, PCA knows that the Cubs are a team that can build a franchise with multiple good players in comparison to a franchise like Cincinnati. That’s a problem that any potential owner will have to grapple with unless the CBA changes dramatically. Again, I believe that can be done without a hard cap/floor, but currently, the CBA gives significant advantages to some teams over the rest of the league.
BK, I think the no leverage bit is part of the problem. You may be right. I just don’t think the Reds are making any serious effort to resign him. Just playing out the string, championship or no championship. Just my opinion but if Elly makes a public trade request, then the dynamics change. Offers will come in unsolicited or not. Reds fans may take a side. There are some pretty disappointed people that the Reds haven’t built a winner around Elly as yet. He is not the best player in baseball but he may be top 10 and he is 24 years old. Shame on Nick if he can’t make this happen.
These are Brewers’ winning percentages for the last 5 seasons: 2022 (.531), 2023 (.568), 2024 (.574), 2025 (.599) & 2026 (.622, so far): benchmark of continuos improvement, best industry practices & effective management.
LOL
Contreras needs to be dusting dirt off his back and pulling a ball out of the ear hole of his helmet first time up tonight. I remember back in 70’s the Dodgers’ Dave Lopes dig in and homered when LA was up 10. He had sore ribs the rest of the series after next at bat, and his homer wasn’t against a position player.
I could see a scenario where the Reds are the worst team in the league next year.
I think the rotation will be;
Burns
Abbott
Lodolo
Lowder
Someone like Michael Lorenzen at 5, a journeyman Starter
You’d have an ace and 4 number 4 to 5 type starters.
Any injury to Burns, De La Cruz or Stewart for a month or so and they’d be prone to long losing streaks I think.
If you wanted to potentially still try and contend while also trading Elly, maybe the Red Sox would give you Garrett Crochet, a pick of Franklin Arias or Roman Anthony and 2 other lower level highly thought of prospects.
Crochet would be a risk with his injury history but if the Reds took most of his contract on Red Sox maybe would be interested. Huge risk involved, but the Reds would have Burns, Crochet for 4 years or so together.
Absolutely perfect night to resist the siren call of another streaming service (I know Apple has a solid reputation as noted, but it’s just not our cup of tea). Embarrassing doesn’t begin to cover it. At least Sal got a couple of hits. He needs some RBI opportunities in the next couple of weeks.
On another note, my nighttime reading is Kinsella’s “Shoeless Joe”. I’m a big fan of the movie and have greatly enjoyed the novel. The “swap of kidnapped authors” is fun but doesn’t detract from the book or movie. It’s been a true joy to read (despite seeing some negative reviews). Next up is his “Iowa Baseball Confederacy”.
About 30 minutes until ND football. I’ll tune into the game whenever that ends (will follow on my laptop until then). We’ll see if we can reverse this particular road trip curse.
Thanks for the Shoeless Joe book suggestion. I do much more reading in the winter, so I’ll put that on my list.
Watching a lot of football today, some great games. However hey Kevin H please quit calling other peoples thoughts laughable , not a good look. As far as Francona goes you can stop defending him by saying they made the playoffs last year. My Lord they won 83 games and backed into the playoffs only to lose 2 straight. I love the Reds but I am smart enough to realize they are in a lot of trouble. In my opinion they should break it all down and start over including a new manager. It would be great for Tito to turn this ship around but he better give more than one more year because it’s going to take awhile to turn this thing around and sadly that might include beyond Elly’s free agent time..
I disagree. Consider that four Reds players (Friedl, Marte, Hayes, McLain) are among the seventeen worst MLB hitters. Collectively, they have logged 1,145 plate appearances and counting. That’s hard to replicate that level of failure. The Reds have good potential to improve by simply replacing these players:
1. Friedl – replace with some combo of Myers, Dunn, and Jorge.
2. Marte – replace with Hector Rodriguez
3. Hayes – play Stewart at 3B or retain Suarez and play him there.
4. McLain – sign Luis Arraez and play him at 2B; perhaps Arroyo will rise to the occasion.
It wouldn’t break the bank to do any of these.
“sign Luis Arraez and play him at 2B”
Absolutely!!! The Reds should overpay if necessary. Better than spending money on a Hayes, Candy, Moose etc. Much better taking that risk.
@Mark, I said the narrative is laughable.
Secondly dude Francona isnt the problem and last two years you have complained about him. Backed in to playoffs who the heck cares. They made it. D-backs a few years ago only won 83 or 84 games made wild card and went to world series.
I stand by what I said, as people smarter than me all say Francona isnt the problem and he is a great manager. So forgive me if I continue to keep saying he isnt the issue. *shrug*
Sorry, but I know a lot of people who agree with me so lets not make a contest out of it. Let’s just hope that the Reds can finish as strong as possible and then have a successful season next year regardless of who the manager is. Have a good night and enjoy the football.
That we can agree on. Peace
Lots of teams have been where the Reds are right now.Few pieces to trade,farm system not good and not all the money in the world to spend.You just have to replace those that got you to this point.Draft and developing people is a good place to start.What will your trade pieces bring?You have to find out so find out.Prepare to be awful and the Reds will be regardless if they hold or fold.Elly will get really expensive before he leaves on his own.Rebuild?Call it what you want but you have 3 trading chips and that’s it.I can cheer next year and beyond watching Elly and Sal and Burns along with a cast of not ready and may never be ready players play and still lose 95 to 100 games.It is what it is and the Reds need to admit that building from within and falling in love with players way way past the honey moon combined with limited revenue is not going to work.Tyler is walking,Singer unless the Reds get foolish and offer him 20 mil or so will walk,Burke will walk and Geno may stay but why would you want him to?I can even deal with MMC and Hayes next year cause can they hit any worse?I can see Lodolo and AA along with Lowder bouncing back but if they do then move one of them at the deadline.Time to shut up but being awful to me is not competing in the division and unless the other teams fall back the Reds will not compete.
Agree with most of your assertions Mr. Garrett, except I have no great expectations for MMC or KBH. I think it is time to move on, as you mentioned not falling in love with players past the honeymoon. Maybe one of the high draft shortstops can be shifted to 3B or 2B. Maybe Alfredo Dunno makes ML in June, but that would surprise me. Catchers have a lot besides hitting on their plate. Maybe one or two of the September call ups can stick next year. Their biggest issue may be pitching – what else is new. Just hope the turn-around is quick. The clock is ticking and I would like to see one more great season in my lifetime.
Arguably, the 2012 season was the best season of the last 25 years (2001 through 2025). That team https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/2012.shtml had good SP and RP. They had a good lineup. They had a very good manager.
They had one HOF (Rolen), one likely HOF (Votto), and one possible HOF (Chapman). One probable HOF manager (Dusty) and one possible HOF GM type (Jocketty).
I do not expect to see another 100 W season in my lifetime (arguably next 10 years).
“and one possible HOF (Chapman)”
Didn’t Chapman just pick up his 400th save. Ninth pitcher to do so. Man the Reds pressed hard on that panic button.
There were serious circumstances that warranted a trade then.