The Milwaukee Brewers were unbeaten in the 2026 season against the Cincinnati Reds entering Tuesday night’s game. They remained that way thanks to a 7-2 win that gave them victories in each of the first two games in the 4-game series in Wisconsin at American Family Field.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cincinnati Reds (39-44) | 2 | 6 | 0 |
| Milwaukee Brewers (51-31) | 7 | 14 | 0 |
| W: Sproat (3-4) L: Lowder (3-6) | |||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
Cincinnati grabbed an early lead when Sal Stewart hit the 7th pitch of the game on a line drive over the wall in right field and into the seats for a solo home run. Milwaukee got that run back in the bottom of the 2nd inning after Jake Bauers singles and took second base on a passed ball before scoring on a single by Garrett Mitchell that tied the game up.
Neither team would do much in the 3rd, but in the bottom of the 4th the Brewers did a whole lot. The first five batters of the inning singled, with the latter two of those bringing in runs. The first out of the inning came on a sacrifice bunt. A walk to load the bases followed before the 6th single of the inning came and plated another run to make it 5-1. Rhett Lowder would get out of the inning from there with a strikeout and a groundout. They would tack on another run in the 5th when Jake Bauers hit a 425-foot leadoff homer.
The Reds got that run back in the top of the 6th inning. Elly De La Cruz began the frame with a double. He came around to score when Sal Stewart followed up with a double of his own. The Brewers left Brandon Sproat in the game to face JJ Bleday after a mound visit and it worked out in their favor as he would pick up the strikeout. That, though, was the last batter he faced as Milwaukee called on Chad Patrick from the bullpen. He came in and got the final two outs of the inning to hold onto the 6-2 lead.
Cincinnati went down in order in the 7th. Elly De La Cruz picked up a 1-out single in the 8th but he was erased on an inning-ending double play a few pitches later. In the bottom of the inning Jackson Chourio hit a solo home run to extend the Brewers lead to 7-2.
Nathaniel Lowe would keep the Reds slim hopes alive in the 9th with a 2-out double. Terry Francona brought Ivan Johnson off of the bench to pinch hit. It was the MLB debut for the switch-hitting 27-year-old who was just called up earlier on Tuesday. He struck out to end the game as the Brewers domination of Cincinnati continued.
Key Moment of the Game
The 4th inning that saw the Brewers rally for four runs thanks to five singles and a walk.
Notes Worth Noting
Elly De La Cruz and Sal Stewart went 2-4 each. The rest of the Reds lineup went 2-23.
Brandon Sproat’s numbers against the rest of MLB this season: 63.2 innings pitched, 5.94 ERA, 32 walks, and 63 strikeouts. His numbers against the Reds in his last two games: 11.1 innings, 1.59 ERA, 5 hits allowed, 2 walks, 17 strikeouts.
Matt McLain, who played center field at UCLA as a freshman and then for a few weeks in the Arizona Fall League after the 2024 season, made his first appearance there as a big leagues in this game after pinch-hitting for TJ Friedl in the 8th and taking over for him in the field in the bottom of the inning.
Milwaukee is 5-0 against Cincinnati this season. Going back to 2022, the Brewers are 45-18 against the Reds.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Cincinnati Reds vs Milwaukee Brewers
Wednesday July 1st, 8:10pm ET
Andrew Abbott (5-4, 3.90 ERA) vs Shane Drohan (3-2, 3.12 ERA)
At what point does someone in charge say “Enough,” and make significant change? I’m not saying firing for the sake of firing, but it’s now two months of absolutely terrible baseball. This product has to improve.
This is a bad team that seems resigned to its fate of 90+ losses, even though they have 3 more months left to play.
Please please don’t tell me that they think moving McLain to CF will provide a jolt. What point is there finding a new position for him? He can’t hit!
Were I in charge, I’d start aggressively trading what few assets the team has not named Sal or Chase. The team won’t win with the current 40 man roster.
I think the point is that his ability to play center adds *some* value as a utility player, which he seems to be at this point. And given the current state of the outfield there’s an argument to be made that maybe he’s actually the best defensive center fielder on the 40-man roster right now when TJ Friedl is the only guy who would be considered a center fielder that’s healthy.
I think he’s saying that that move would be a big whoopty doo move that doesnt move the needle. You’re still forcing a guy into the lineup that hasn’t been able to hit. He plays really good D at second but nobody wants him playing there because he doesn’t seem to be able to hit, so who cares if he can play center field?
Hayes can play 3B really well, maybe he can play another position well too but who cares? What does that help?
Many Reds fans need baseball to do something with this next deal to force the owners that don’t prioritize winning to spend money. I’m 56 and have been a diehard since childhood. The last rebuild failure really jaded me. I stopped going to games and now I’m following less and less each year. I just struggle with caring when winning isn’t ownerships primary goal. I don’t see how any fan can claim that it is their primary goal. I see zero evidence of that. It’s bad enough that the game has changed so much that it really isn’t the same game anymore. Unearned runs in extra innings for instance. It’s just a different game. Fans love the game so much that they want shorter games and less baseball. I just don’t get it anymore. It’s everything though really, sports, music, movies. Everything is trying to take short cuts and the easier route. It normally doesn’t make things better but just dilutes.
Now… get off of my lawn…. haha
Brian, they aren’t forcing him into the lineup. He’s on the bench. He’s there to play center if and when they need him to for reasons around someone being pinch hit for, someone getting hurt, or the fact that the other option for center is TJ Friedl, who I’m sure the same people whining about McLain in center want to still be in the minor leagues or out of the organization.
Yeah, the Reds could probably go trade for a better defender to play center right now. But Dunn and Myers are both likely back to being active in like two weeks. It doesn’t make sense to trade for someone to play center right now. This team is going nowhere this season.
People are mad. So they are throwing a fit about a guy who has played center field in the past being asked to maybe, perhaps, come off of the bench and play center field for a few innings a week, because they are also mad and disappointed that he hasn’t been able to come back and hit like he did before he injured his shoulder.
I don’t know what would make any of the complainers happy given the current situation. You can’t go back in time and get someone else before the season starts. When the Reds asked McLain to start taking fly balls during practice last week it was because they decided that he was no longer a starting player and that given his speed and past experience there that maybe he could be useful in center on a team that was down one center fielder already and is now down two of them and relying on a “starter” who is slow and has no range, but a lot of experience in center. Would anyone be happy if the Reds traded a prospect to get someone else to come play on a team that’s on pace to finish like 20 games out of first place? Come on, guys. Be realistic.
McLain hurts the team every time he’s in the lineup due to his inability to hit. Now factor in the growing pains of learning CF and this will become ugly.
He’s not learning center, Jesse. He’s played there in the past.
Brian, I think the owners want to win. They just don’t want to spend the amount of money that the non-owners without money want and demand them to spend. It’s a fun business enterprise for them but they don’t want to lose much of their money on it.
@SteveAReno, I also want a Corvette but am only will to pay for a Spark. You get what you pay for.
My problem isn’t necessarily with McLain specifically. My problem is that they had a rebuild and pretty much cleared cleared their contract commitments, they were starting from scratch and had some high draft picks. This is the result after they cleared the table and started a new? The guys that they traded for didn’t do anything, the money they spent, which were half measures didn’t do anything. They limit spending and when they do, it’s for players with huge red flags. They are a bad organization, the results are the proof of that. I accept it, I just don’t like it.
The Reds have redefined MoneyBall to Cheap MoneyBall. Instead of trying to get quality players a little less expensively than the stars they have shopped at the bargain basement bin with the hopes of finding diamonds. Then, they throw away millions on a few players that they later have to cut. If they have a plan, it is not discernible. So, now they are in last place in their division and I don’t think they can get out of there.
Like it or not McLain is the best option they/we have for CF at the moment unless one thinks it’s a good idea to bring up Jorge already which is very likely not going to happen YET. He got two hits and four RBI in his AAA debut so that’s encouraging at least.
I think that it is good that MM is not starting at 2b lately. Not that it is his fault that the Reds have settled into last place. But they need to improve almost every starting position. At the beginning of the season I was opposed to a fire sale type of approach. Not anymore. They need to upgrade MOST of the starting 8. Unfortunately, that means trading Hunter Greene, Nick Lodolo and Brady Singer whom I think are all above to well above average arms. Geno and Tyler Stephenson should be on the market too as they do not appear to be part of the Reds’ future. And the trades need to be for quality starters or high potential MLB ready prospects. If Elly and his agent indicate the reluctance to sign with the Reds or a price-point the Reds will not cross, he needs to be traded too ASAP. Chase Burns and Sal Stewart may be the only untouchables on the team. The only question is whether they trade now, this winter or after the new CBA is agreed upon. And get some players who are hopefully not intimidated by the teams in the NL Central. I would even support a change in coaches-something is not right when your players seem to never reach their potential.
“Milwaukee is 5-0 against Cincinnati this season. Going back to 2022, the Brewers are 45-18 against the Reds.”
Holy Moly! I knew it was bad, but not that bad since 2022.
Yeah, I saw that last stat from Doug and was blown away!!
@Jedi Joey. Reds are 48 games under 500 if I did my math correctly since 2022 and 27 games under against the Brewers. Not sure how but Holy Moly is somehow an understatement.
@Michael, you are probably right. I knew it was bad but honestly didn’t think it was that bad. It is what it is.
JJ, from 1953-1959 the Reds were 46-68 against the MILWAUKEE BRAVES. Maybe it just a Milwaukee thing.
Those Braves had Hank Aaron, Eddie Matthews, Warren Spahn, et al. They were among the best teams in MLB in the 1950s.
The Reds were not. They did have Frank Robinson, but the Braves had more HOF-ers.
Interesting stat, Bill J. Thanks for sharing.
With a lefty going tomorrow for the Brewers, I expect Steer and McLain in the starting lineup replacing Lowe and Friedl. Since his family is in town, I’d start Johnson for Marte tomorrow. Give him some ABs in front of his family and hopefully he can get his first ML hit.
I’d start a fight. They can’t beat the Brewers straight up – maybe try to get into their heads.
Of course.I am sure this is an antiquated idea and some will clutch pearls. Maybe Sal should sneak into the ballpark, turn on the sprinklers, and flood the field. Instant rain out.
I’ve been following the Reds since I was a little boy in 1956….I’ve never seen a worse excuse for a Reds team. Krall and the ownership organization could care less about putting a winning team on the field. Reds fans are as good as any in sports but Krall & company just don’t care as long as they can maintain a profit. I pay $150 a year to watch the Reds and this year is the only year I have really felt like saying, this is it…no more.
@Octotillo could not agree more. Losing is acceptable by way too many in this organization. I think the fans on this care a lot more than the front office and ownership.
It would have only cost me a $100 to watch them and I opted not to. Best money i ever saved. Couldn’t take the frustration. It’s like the best money the Reds ever saved was when McLain didn’t sign the long term deal the Reds offered him. Bet he wishes he did now.
Have been to three home games this year, all before the end of April. Don’t have plans to go to any others. I usually attend at least 12-15 home games a year. Even Elly’s no longer that exciting now that his speed has diminished since Tito took over…
I’ve been to three home games in the past decade, and for two of those I got free tickets. Until MLB is a more competitively balanced environment, they won’t be getting much of my money. They do get $7/month for 6 months a year so I can watch the minors, but that’s about it. I watched 10x more college games this year than I will MLB games, and Lord knows how many more minor league games.
I think they care.They just are not capable of doing it. Most of Kralls trades and free agent choices have been a disaster.We all know them.Moose,Candy and now Geno.Players come here and can’t perform.Players leave here and turn their careers around.Injuries this year have been crazy.
Hire a medicine man to do a rain dance. Kidnap Bernie Brewer or the sausages. Immolate a bunch of sausages. Finally, hold up a beer truck and flood the pitching mound with beer.
Yes, owning a business is all about maintaining a profit to keep business running.
I am with you. I have been a Reds fan since 1961 and I am almost at the end of my patience. The Reds were once a great organization. Now they just don’t seem to care anymore. I expect they are going to be selling or trading a lot of players soon so they can start another five year plan to become competitive. Their plans never work because they don’t really have a plan. I used to listen to every game on the radio or watch on tv, but now I just look at the score a few times a game. The Castellinis have ruined this organization. If Milwaukee can be great so could the Reds with a competent front office. Instead, the Reds are deplorable,
Does ownership care? Yes. Are they willing to truly sacrifice to win? No.
If someone isn’t willing to make sacrifices to get better, they won’t get better. This is why we are where we are right now with this sorry ownership group.
“Does ownership care? Yes. Are they willing to truly sacrifice to win? No.”
Yeah they care and like it if it’s convenient.
Why in the world would the produce family tell their investors that they would never have to put more of their money back into the team. “Holly Molly” should not work that way if you really care about the reds
You know HG could’ve actually pitched against Milw instead of AAA. Its not like he’s pitching 80% at AAA. Oh well…they’d still beat us.
Best bet for the Reds imo is for HG to look 100% in July and then deal him to the Rays or White Sox. Rays are probably too cheap, but they have a real team this year. White Sox are alot of fun too. I could root for HG to actually pitch in big games which never happens in Cincy. Suarez, Lowe, Pagan…firesale. I’d like to keep Elly, Stewie, Bleday, Marte, Burns, and Abbott but anyone else can go
Words of Buddy Ryan….I’d deal him for a 6 pack and it doesn’t have to be cold
Lowder too. Hasta la vista. Velocity matters and he doesn’t have any. He’s young, but he’s a college kid so he’s not that young. Don’t sell low, but don’t put any expectations on him either.
His ceiling is Being John Malkovich
Lowder can be a backend starter that you hope reclaims some upside that he has flashed, but he’s the fifth starter right now. They need Lodolo to throw like at least a 4th starter, and Hunter Greene to be good Hunter Greene as soon as he gets back. The Reds are in a good spot with Burns, Greene, and Abbott going into next year, just need them all healthy. Hard to count on Lodolo long term. Need Lowder to be better.
And Lodolo…better deal him before he gets another blister.
Lodolo likely doesn’t have all that great a trade value right now. It will likely never be higher than it was at the trade deadline last year.
HG pitched in a big game last year and got bombed by the LAD.
Very good point and memory.
More big games I guess. LA bombs alot of guys
It’s hard to find a pitcher who hasn’t had a terrible game.
From our sell off and rebuild a few years ago have we gotten anybody other than Steer that has contributed anything? Even he hasn’t really done that much consistently. We are getting close to another sell off and we still aren’t any better than the last one.
This situation versus the Brewers is very disheartening to me because it indicates that too many Reds players and the team as a group do not know how to play the game of baseball.
Yes, there are players with outstanding individual talents. There are other guys with at least serviceable talents. But too often, they all appear not to know how to best use those talents to win games.
I was hoping Francona would teach the guys how to get the most out of their skills and abilities. Things seemed to be moving that way in 2025. However, now the wheels seem to be falling off.
What’s next?
More bobbleheads and post game concerts so people still buy tickets.
I loved the Francona hire when it was made but now I just don’t know. Reds aren’t as talented as some fans for sure but that means they need to play aggressive and try to maximize runs. Instead he’s cut the running game. He tried to build a pitching and defense team when they play in a band box. I have no doubt he pushed for the Hayes trade after watching Marte for the first few months last year. And he’s blind loyal to Valaika who has never been a competent hitting coach. He right he was joining a team that would contend but had more holes than he expected IMO.
Great point Jim and whats next is you look to the future starting next year.The class of 2023 and I speak of positions player only is no more.Elly of course and average to below average to above average Steer and Marte because of his upside and age can stay.The rest must go along with anybody hitter or pitcher that will not be offered a deal for next year.You start right now today and shop all of these players.All of those on one year deals are fair game.With the idea in mind to get younger and to build the pen with good pitchers if the Reds want to pitch first and defend second.Count on good pen pieces to cost 3 mil or more per year.The game now is hit the ball the other way put it in play and homers will come hit by home run hitters.The game is a 5 or 6 inning game so the pen is priority number 1.The oppo hitting approach works.Teach it preach it and demand it at all levels and accept nothing less.Thats enough or get started.Last night was a team playing as a team.Doing what works and just playing the game the right way.It also featured another team that was not doing much of anything the right way.Sal and Elly went the other way once if not twice for hits and Marte went up the middle and one would think if your two best players found hits that way then there must be some hits out there.Nope didn’t happen.
Jim, do you a lot has to do with the coaches or lack of coaching? They kept most of the ones they had with DB.
Maybe we should try to find players that can hit not just slug, catch and field bunts, pitch not just through 99 to101. We have some players with outstanding skills, but we are lacking in well-rounded players.
I think losing watching someone hit 199 or botching ground balls and double plays is equally frustrating.
Also, it seems like Brewers can actually adjust and hit the ball other way when they see an over shift and not just continue to hit into teeth of defense.
throw 99
Ugh. Some brutal mistypes in that one. That’ll teach me to try to use my phone. “Not as talented as some teams” and “he thought he was joining…”
“Going back to 2022, the Brewers are 45-18 against the Reds.”
Good grief, Charlie Brown. Some of this torment must be psychological, this is a pattern that goes beyond talent or training. I don’t know what sort of gypsy curse the Brewers put on the Reds, but if the Redlegs want to win in the league, they’re going to have to figure out how to do it in MKE first.
Kinda makes you wonder how they managed to win 18.
LOL
Did not expect to see the “wheels fall off” after how the season started, but boy has it! Total regression of this team and, but they have had a bad bullpen for as long as I can remember, and the starting staff is not showing to be much better. Offensive struggles continue escpecially with strikeouts being a common theme.
It would seem that it is time to have an organizational “reset”, but probably not likeley since ownership appears to be happy as long as they are profitable.
Seeing other Small Market teams have success shows it certainly can be done. Need some knowledgeable baseball people in charge!!!
I said something similar in a previous comment, but I think it bares repeating:
Given the way this Reds team is built, the only way they were ever going to compete this year was with almost everything going right.
I would say, conclusively, that everything has NOT gone right this year.
This Reds team operates on very fine margins. There’s a very narrow path to competing, but there are very wide paths to being mediocre or worse.
The fact is, this Reds team simply doesn’t have the depth to compete, because hoping to catch lightning in a bottle and have a magical season where every player stays healthy and plays up to their full potential is like wishing on a star.
It COULD happen, but almost never does. And that’s where we are now.
They were banking a lot on spring training Matt McLain being for real, and he’s been even worse than last year.
And on Suarez being a middle of the order hitter, and he obviously hasn’t been.
I’m beginning to think Marte is what he is and doesn’t really care that much about baseball.
I think Ty Steve is breaking down at 30 because this has been a woeful contract year so far.
Right, and not to mention the injuries to Greene, Lodolo, Lowder, Williamson, and (gestures vaguely at the bullpen).
Not to mention, Abbott forgot how to pitch for the first month of the year, while Singer has gone from a middle of the rotation starter to a back of the rotation starter (although he has been better in June, save his most recent start).
So, as I said, things have been pretty far from “everything going right”.
Don’t know how much Marte cares but wish he could produce like another former Reds outfielder with that tag, one Kal Daniel’s. Lifetime.285 hitter with OPS+. Might have been the best hitter on a team that included Davis, Larkin et al. Great opposite field power. Just a natural. Injuries lead to a shortened career.
Yeah agreed CI3J
Brewers put on a hitting clinic last night! Hitting the ball the other way, just getting on base. Basepaths were constantly full of Brewers. You have to love that style of team baseball. Maybe our hitting coach preaches that and the players either do not listen or they simply cannot do it. The Brewers are very good!
Yes, it didn’t appear they were always swinging for the fences and striking out. Get ’em on and move them over was the task.
Yep..;.just listen to the Brewers manager at the top of this posting. Lowder was hitting the edges with regularity….SOOOO…second time through they go the opposite way and get a whole bunch of singles and runs. Makes him come inside and pow over the fence. That’s just good hitting. Everyone complaining about Reds hitting coach who apparently preaches going opposite way. Either he doesn’t know how to show the batters how to do it, or the batters just can’t do it. I’m willing to bet its the latter. You know they do do it sometimes, Stewart is at his best when he does, EDLC every once in a while, Steer, Lowe, even Suarez on occasion. But here’s the key…how is the pitcher attacking you and how do you respond.
I did not think the pitching would be so bad. Blaming a manager is pointless on a team that is full of .220 hitters and pitchers with high ERAs who walk everybody lol, Its not like he is pushing the wrong buttons, he is working with chicken **** trying to make chicken salad. The FO hardly gives him any buttons at all. Their record in one run games and extra innings is respectable. Tito aint perfect but he has done his best with this mess.
An organization that just traded for KB Hayes less than a year ago, you trust them to make a deadline move to help anything?
The Reds have the 11th oldest roster in MLB. They are 17th in innings pitched by the bullpen (not outrageous), but have walked a TON of hitters. They are dead last and no other team is close. The whole staff is 29th in pitches thrown per inning. You cannot make this stuff up. This group just doesn’t mesh, put them out of their misery. Good grief. For crying out loud. The core of McClain, Steer, Friedl, Benson, and Stephenson didnt work. They are approaching 30 lol.
How can the pitching and hitting both be historically bad? I seen a comment on here defending McClain with WRC+ stats (lol) and I read his reasoning (lol). The entire time I am thinking “this guy is hitting .160 in the last 30 games and someone found a stat to defend him.” At least his June (.203) was better than his May (.175).
We are living in the twilight zone of Reds fandom. Demand more, Reds fans. Stop defending nonsense with irrelevant statistics.
In the first week in June,after Elly went down, McLain went 7-18 .388 BA with 3 homers. People thought he was coming out of it after the switch to short. The rest of June? 6-45 .133 BA 0 HRS and 0 RBIs.
“I did not think the pitching would be so bad. Blaming a manager is pointless on a team that is full of .220 hitters and pitchers with high ERAs who walk everybody lol,”
😀 This is one of the worst hitting teams I can remember. Not to put all the blame on him because I’m not even sure how much a hitting coach matters but trying to think here. There are very few if any outside of Elly and Sal that haven’t regressed since the arrival of Chris Valaika. Am I missing something/someone?
Not missing anything Melvin. That is just the fact of the matter.
Steer pretty much is what he has always been
Loved the Reds radio announcers pumping there chest in the first inning,saying how dominant Lowder was three k’s only 10 pitches all strikes,didn’t take long for that to all blow up,oh I understand they are on the Reds payroll,they must promote this awful brand of Double AA ball
Lowder looked SHARP in the first inning.
Actually, I think that may have been his downfall last night. He was throwing strikes, so the Brewers decided that they would just swing to make contact, got a bunch of easy base hits, going the other way, etc.
Lowder doesn’t throw super hard, but he does usually throw strikes. I think when he got into trouble, he was trying to be too fine, and resulted in walks.
And…it was still a loss. The inning where they scored 5 runs was very hard to watch. Nothing was hit that hard, the Brewers were just putting the ball in play.
According to Brewers manager Lowder was hitting the outside edges…they responded by poking it the other way. OK, catcher needs to move the location around more.
10 games against the Pirates and Brewers and it’s going just the way I knew it would go. 2-6 so far. Starting Pitching,Relief Pitching and Hitting. You need at least 2 of those and mostly 3 to get a win. The Brewers have all 3 and the Reds can’t get all 3 consistently. Brewers are top 7 in baseball in Hits,singles,doubles, stolen bases and walks. Give me a team that keeps the line moving over a team that waits on the home run. Throw in great defense and pitching and they are a top team every year.
“Brewers are top 7 in baseball in Hits,singles,doubles, stolen bases and walks. Give me a team that keeps the line moving over a team that waits on the home run.”
As I mentioned last night they are third from last in HR and still in first place.
Fourth in runs scored.
Good article by Goldsmith this morning
https://charlieschalkboard.substack.com/p/why-the-reds-cant-beat-the-brewers
Last night reminded me of the great Doors classic “The End” or perhaps Bugs “That’s all folks”
I don’t need to even read it (and I won’t be), but I can answer the question from the link that asks why the Reds can’t beat the Brewers simply: The Brewers are better in every aspect of the game of baseball and have been for a long time.
“The Brewers are better in every aspect of the game of baseball and have been for a long time.”
But besides that why do they keep on beating us? 😀
The Brewers are especially better in the front office on having a plan and working that plan. That is the biggest difference.
Melvin- The Brewers are 2nd in come from behind in wins only behind the Dodgers. Brewers players expect to win every game no matter what. They have the hitting and bullpen. The Reds don’t. You can’t tell me that the players don’t think that on the Reds. They know who is in the bullpen. They know who can’t hit.
“They have the hitting and bullpen. The Reds don’t. You can’t tell me that the players don’t think that on the Reds. They know who is in the bullpen. They know who can’t hit.”
The Reds front office rarely gives players or fans for that matter encouragement. The players aren’t stupid. It’s hard to stay up and motivated to think you’re going to win. Tito can only motivate so much. He never says it but you know he see’s it too.
He actually did credit the Reds as better at pitching development- a questionable proposition.
Doug may not read it but I did. It was interesting. The Reds are doing better with 1st round picks at least. It obviously hasn’t equated to any success like the Brewers have sustained.
““That’s all folks””
That was Elmer Fud I believe. Get your characters right. 😉
Wasn’t that Porky Pig? lol!!!
“Wasn’t that Porky Pig? lol!!!”
You are correct sir. I ashamed for not knowing/remembering that very important part of history. 😀
Ha ha! I had to think about it for a minute, Melvin. 🙂
Reposting this from another Charlie G’s Fox 19 site:
https://www.fox19.com/2026/07/01/why-reds-cant-beat-brewers/
Lots of good stuff in this article. Early adapters almost always win in business. The Brewers focus on international talent will take a while to overcome. Their defense and ability to balance aggressiveness with smart, situational baserunning are likely organizational development patterns that outpace most others in the league. Making changes in both areas will take time–there are no easy fixes for those problems.
It’s obvious to me that the Reds need “new blood” from outside of the organization to “run the show”. If you don’t have as much money as “the big guys” you need to be “smarter than the big guys”. That’s just not happening. It is for the Brewers.
I tend to agree. Where I disagree with others is that replicating the Brewers way is very difficult. Krall and company are smart guys. I simply don’t have the time or availability of resources to do a deep dive into whether the Brewers have been lucky or smart. They have been able to replenish talent at a high level. They have been able to stay at the top of the league in terms of run prevention and baserunning. The Reds have prioritized these latter two areas–why have the Brewers been successful while the Reds have flailed?
Case in point: why can’t Noelvi Marte play defense at a major league level at any position on the field? He’s athletic; he performed better in the minors. Why do the Reds whiff so much? Why don’t they know how/when to steal bases and use the speed that’s been on this team over the last two seasons? Even when they were aggressive under the prior manager, they negated what should have been a huge advantage by being too aggressive. So, how did the Brewers find the balance?
“I tend to agree. Where I disagree with others is that replicating the Brewers way is very difficult. Krall and company are smart guys.”
They may be smart guys. We can debate that. What is not debatable is that Krall has been in the Reds organization since 2002 and Meador since 2009. Most of that time the Reds have NOT been winning. It’s time for a change with new eyes evaluating EVERYTHING.
LDS, good article and a good blueprint for the Reds. Elly seems destined to play under bigger and brighter lights. Maybe trade him in the next offseason or two? HG is under a fairly team friendly contract, CB is the ACE you can build around. AA is a keeper.
MM would probably be in AAA on most teams, Arroyo looks to be a keeper, TJ and Geno look old, JJ looks like a keeper, not yet sure about Marte but he could be a bust.
Should build the team around Sal and CB, they have fire. A soft rebuild is needed though.
Brewers,Dodgers, and Braves look like division winners but Cubs are now hot and join the Phillies at 10 over .500
The math doesnt work and while Greene will help, the hitting ,defense and bullpen are just poor. Reds arent a playoff team. 2017 Joey Votto isnt coming thru that door, nor are the nasty boys, nor is Jose Rijo nor is MVP 1977 George Foster.
Reds wont do anything before the AS break to focus on the draft, but if they are 8-10 games under, it will be a firesale.
Id build around Greene/Burns/Abbott/Elly/Sal.
I could also see PC trying to “remake” himself with the fans and firing the entire front office after the season. We ve not heard anything on pitching coach DJ but it wouldn’t be a surprise if he stepped down after the offseason too. PC isnt firing Tito. He’s a marketing guy and the optics there would be too messy. Tito could step down on his own after the season with a lock out coming and a nuclear winter and a major rebuild but we dont know his mindset.
You can’t build around Elly if he isn’t going to be here in 2029. The Reds will not pay him for what he wants. The Reds will get more now in a trade then in 2028. Love the guy and wish it wasn’t so but he is gone one way or another. I don’t expect the Reds to win it all in the next 2 years so try try again with a rebuild. I would redo it without Krall. I think you need to bring in somebody who knows how to rebuild a team on a shoestring budget. Somebody from the Rays or Brewers etc. It takes a different mindset to be able to do that.
The Reds have Elly De La Cruz in 2029 if they want him to be here. He is under contract for the 2027, 2028, and 2029 seasons.
That’s a good point. The Reds had a Elly/Greene “window”, but they look far away from competing and not likely to compete before Elly’s time is up.
It might be a good idea to accept that reality and trade Elly now, when he is presumably more valuable since he is younger and has more years left before free agency. The Reds could ask for a king’s ransom back for him, but I don’t necessarily trust Krall to get the best package.
Greene… I don’t know. He’s under a relatively friendly contract, and when he is on the mound, he’s one of the best pitchers in the game. But he’s also no longer exactly young (he’ll be 27 next month) and he could also probably fetch a good return given his contract.
The Reds could try to build around the next generation of Sal, Arroyo, Marte, Burns, and Lowder and hope that Krall can trade everyone else for the pieces needed elsewhere. But Krall really does not inspire that kind of hope.
It brings me the same feeling of regret that I had with Votto. HOW could the Reds squander the chance to compete when they had generational talent like Elly and Greene on the team?
Doug- That makes it even more harder. They aren’t competing for a championship next year with the holes they have unless Krall trades for some top talent and not guys like Myers and Hayes or signing guys like Hays or Bleday. They need difference makers. 2028 is a better possibility and 2029 would be their best chance. Unfortunately if it’s 2029 and they are say the best team in baseball, well you can’t trade Elly then. 2028 trade? Not as good as probably 2026 or 2027. Trade for AAA can’t miss talent who is ready now and let the team grow together. I hate losing our guys but that’s the way it is now a days.
Do you guys really think we can tear down this team and compete in 2 years? I don’t. Sure, we have guys that can develop. But several smart people bet on that concept this past winter and we are a 500 team passed by the rebuilding Cards and young Pirates (who spent). Just like this last year, there are no logical reasons why young guys like Marte, Steer, MCLain, Dunn, Benson, Stephenson, Bleday, Arroyo are going to be any better players than they have been this year. Or that 2-3 of Lodolo, Lowder, Petty, and Williamson are going to pitch 160 innings and win 14 games. “Build around such and such.” Who are we going to trade that is going to give us something just as good and just as mlb ready as what we already have? We already have young mlb ready guys in Lowder, Williamson, Marte, Arroyo, Petty, Steer, etc. As we all know, there is a heck of a big difference between a AAA talent and a mlb success. But it just seems to me that with any tear down, we are betting on getting AAAA mlb ready guys in return better than the same young mlb ready we already had. That math just doesn’t seem to work in my mind. Or maybe we have better talent evaluators than the other team. (Sarcasm.) we are all frustrated in this front office and how they have misconstrued this team and terribly failed us fans. But imo, the tear down is a knee jerk reation and will not get us to 88 wins in 2027 or 2028. Our best chance there is now ……but probably too late. We have got to get 2 significantly better offensive players at C and CF. $15-20M type players. Beside the money part, you are going to have to trade valuable prospects or youth. But if you want to hold on to Petty, ,Lowder, Lodolo, Duno, Arroyo, Marte, and Co and believe in those guys being plus players in 2027-2028, then I think you will be disappointed.
The White Sox, with some shrewd trades, went from being “turrible” last year to being (are they still?) in first place in the AL Central.
The Reds have to cut bait with players that just aren’t making it, and remake their roster with better players and pitchers.
And frankly, don’t look for Phil Castellini to do something daring and bold, like can the Front office.
Rob:
Steer (28), Stephenson (30(!) next month), McLain (27 next month), Benson (26), and Bleday (28) are not young, at least in baseball terms.
If you accept the reality that the Reds are unlikely to compete over the next few seasons, it makes sense to trade those players while they still have some useful years left. By the time the next crop of young players the Reds acquire through trades are ready (likely 2029 or 2030), those 5 players you listed will be too old to be useful for much longer if at all, and would not bring anything back in a trade.
“You can’t build around Elly if he isn’t going to be here in 2029.”
If after the new CBA if the Reds feel they still can’t “afford” him they might as well trade EDLC and get the most out of him as they possibly can. It’s obvious they aren’t going to build a better team around him. It’s just when it’s time I want someone else besides Krall making that deal.
Rob- no one wants a rebuild because most of us are old and tired of losing.
Unfortunately the Castellini boys aren’t going to give whoever is GM a lot of money to go out and pay for big time hitters to carry this team. Suarez got 15 mil and basically it was an overpay because nobody else was signing him. They need a GM who can build a team on a Castellini budget and that GM has to have some kind of experience in doing it. You think they are close? I think they are a last place team. They have basically no depth and with every team expecting injuries every year , the Reds can’t cover those injuries. Why ? Because guys like Maxwell,Mey etc have never progressed to be reliable. McLain ,Marte,Friedl, Stephenson,Trevino etc etc have become the other side of “if”. If they hit has become if they don’t hit. Tito has destroyed the bullpen the past 2 years. Why? Because he can’t rely on half the pitchers and has to go with the guys that are producing. Can’t build a team on “ifs”. Been saying that forever. You have to pay for quality big time hitters and the Reds don’t do that. Meantime the clock is ticking on the likes of Elly and Greene etc .
JB, CJ, we may not disagree here. My position has been that the Reds best chance to compete is probably now, if at all. I believe we are ( and have been) 2 significant offensive players short. And if you don’t want to replace 2-3 month injured, key bullpen pieces with 4 ERA journeymen, then really don’t have a chance. I really don’t see how we can get better next year dumping good players with modest salaries. Pagan, Singer, Lowe, Suarez, etc. In my view, it is a total fantasy to believe we are going to outbid other teams for a better closer than Pagan’s 30 saves of 2025. That is my interpretation of the dumping to get better crowd. Or we are going to make some crafty trade where we pick up some C or CF prospect who is going to hit and field like Chourio or PCA or Dingler. I think we can get youth and prospects in salary dumps but I don’t think we are going to get anything better than what we have in Petty, Lowder, Marte, Arroyo, Dunn, etc. We have all those guys we need for 2027. We need better and that has been my point. For us to get better, we have to cross that bridge of spending money and possibly trading valuable young pieces that a rebuilder might want. We are playing our better prospects today and they aint good enough and imo, they won’t be good enough next year. We need better, not more or younger which I interpret a lot of folks to be saying.
So many injuries this season, in particular within the pitching staff, paired with the underperformance of some players expected to be key contributors (McLain, Suarez, Friedl and Marte) have sunk any hopes to reach the post-season. Looks like they’ll never get out of the rebuilding mode and there aren’t any good prospects near the majors either.
Yep, as I said right above you, it’s probably time to throw in the towel on this “window” and blow it all up.
Maybe the Reds can be good by 2030 if they make some smart trades this summer and winter.
Reds saw and we saw what the team concept is all about.From the top to the bottom of the line they look to go the other way first and foremost.Last night somebody said they have the most opposite field hits in baseball.Thats not an accident that’s the expectation of the organization.They get it about the game being on most nights in the hands of the bull pen.They get it about trading good players while they are still good and before they must pay them the bigger money.Reds don’t do any of that well at all.
4th from the bottom in the NL. 19-34 in their last 53 games. This is a bad team. There is just a cap with what can be done with their payroll. Tito is squeezing blood from a turnip.
Excited to get Hunter Greene back this weekend.
Did some research. Here are pitcher’s arm injuries over the last 10-11 years:
2015 141
2016 161
2017 377
2018 423
2019 271
2020 139 (Covid – 60 game season)
2021 467
2022 461
2023 393
2024 366
2025 N/A but 39.1% of all active MLB pitcher had at least one TJS in their lifetime
and $641.6M of MLB payroll were injured pitchers (63.4% of total league
payroll)
2026 394 (YTD) – that’s on pace for almost 800
Also, the average number of IP per game by an SP in 2015 was 5.81. Today, it is 5.14.
More injuries – less IP for SP’s.
Those statistics make it hard to justify the modern approach of reducing the pitch count to under 100 for SP’s. The more baseball goes in that direction the more pitchers have arm injuries.
Correlation does not equal causation.
It’s more so that unless you are throwing max effort max spin every pitch you will be replaced. Max spin and max effort leads to max torque on arms, elbows, and shoulders.
Doug, correlation might not always equal causation, but that statement does not mean that the correlation is not the cause of the problem, I certainly think there are other contributing factors, but I do think pitch limitation has not been the panacea baseball thought it would be. The simplest answer is usually the right answer. Unless someone can show another good reason for the arm injuries, then pitch limitation is my leader in the club house. Muscles have to be built up in order to have the strength to endure the stress of pitching. Pitches limitation goes in the opposite direction,
I feel like wash, rinse, and repeat. Someone said it, and its true. On paper reds looked good and with 3 new bullpen addition it appeared to be a chance for a deep playoff run. Well Greene and Lodolo on il to start, as well as Ferguson. Then the bullpen while solid in April fell apart and what wasnt anticipated was the fall off of Pagan and Santillan, then injuries to Pagan and Santillan and then Ashcraft not to mention Johnson. The guys who were going to be counted on failed. Mey,Maxwell, Phillips, then Richardson, Nicolas. A solid may bullpen gives reds at least 5 to 7 more wins. Injuries happen and unfortunately the guys who were called upon during those injuries didnt do well.
So here we are, and I should add Antone and Petty have done solid jobs.
So while I haven’t given up on the season. I am hopeful 2027 is a better year.
If the April bullpen regressed to average instead of falling apart like it has, then the Reds are likely 3-5 games over .500 and in the thick of the wildcard hunt.
I totally agree. What the front office did to band aid this bullpen was malpractice. Our 3 best guys had 2-3 month injuries and we tried to smooth over with 10-12 different “arms” from Louisville. As we know, none of 10-12 had ERAs that allowed to stay in Cincy. They all failed. Several are no where to be found after their DFA. Krall even said in his own words that the team was just trying to “survive” until July with the return of Greene and Pagan. Yes, I would question the low standard but here we are. Did we survive? I would say no and that the hole we have to climb out of is too deep. These 6-7 games that we gave away in May seem like less of a deal today. It would have been so easy and responsible to trade our 19th ranked prospect for a 3-4 ERA journeyman type guy instead of Richardson, McCambley, Marte, Leibrandt etc. Some of those guys even have 5-6 ERAs at Louisville. They have never been good. They were filler pieces meant for a 15 day IL coverage and use in a 25-2 game. Not for weeks and months, and not for use in the 7th- 8th inning when we had 2-3 run leads…..especially with this weak offense. We need a solid 8 man bullpen or else pretty major surgery on this offense. One would have cost minor KeBryan like money, and the other costs $30-35M. But you absolutely can not ignore a banged up, overworked bullpen with a text message to Louisville. You will find that 9 games over 500 April miracle gone in a month and parked in last place by June. Well now, he has got his injured stars back but did Krall’s survival mode work? Not in my mind. Yeah, we will be better but I do not think we will be much above 500 with these stars returning. Is Pagan going to play CF and hit 850 OPS ? Maybe save 4-5 games a month in the 2H? Or Hunter maybe getting to 7-8 wins? Imo, these guys could do exceed expectation and we would still be sitting around 500 on August 1. We can’t lose much more than 8-10 games in July. That will be hard to do with 3-4 190 hitters. Bring in some offense or this team will not get to the playoffs.
Special shout out to Geno for getting caught stealing in the first. Sproat was at 32 pitches and struggling mightily, Lowe was in a deep count, and Saurez throws him a lifeline. Selfish and irresponsible.
This team is terrible at the little things that often don’t show up on TV……secondary leads off third, weak side outfielders not coming in a few steps with 2 strikes, bunting at non-strikes.
One more thing though, what would “blowing it up”accomplish?
While a down and frustrating year. They have the pieces to compete. This coming off a playoff appearance and dont give me the Mets collapsed, the Reds won and got hot when needed. They earned it. So while things need to change, blowing it up suggestion sounds extreme.
The Reds are dead last in team WAR….dead last. This is not a playoff team as constructed, so imo unless they get to .500 in the next 5 weeks the responsible thing would be a strategic retooling. We have what playoff bound teams are looking for–veteran bats, catching, back end starting pitching, and bullpen help. Lodolo and Steer each would net a top 100 prospect, then trade some combination of Stephenson, Lowe, Suarez, Singer, and anyone from the bullpen to get a legit prospect or two. You get 3 things—an infusion of talent that would still align with the 2 year window you have with Elly/Hunter, you keep your core intact, and you have an opportunity to see what you have in Jorge, HRod, Petty (in the rotation), and whomever you acquire.
Its too easy to do that so they will not.No way will they surrender because 75 wins is more important then 71 wins.Tyler Lowe Geno Singer for sure will not be back.Neither will Friedl or Benson.No way and OS pointed this out will they pay Steer 6 mil next year and I tend to agree.I am with you SOS but it takes guts and risk and willing to make a mistake or two.For me would we be worse or better if we did these moves.How much worse at hitting can this team be?
I think what “blowing it up” would accomplish is admitting that this current window failed and it’s time to go young and hope the next window in 2029/2030 can be more successful.
Most of the players from the previous window (Steer, Elly, Friedl, McLain, Stephenson, Greene, Abbott, Lodolo, Pagan, Santallin, Ashcraft) are at or past their prime years. What you see is what you get with them. And what they are is not good enough, with the exception of Greene, Elly, and Abbott.
Keeping this group of players around when the next window to compete is 3 or 4 years away makes no sense, because they will all be too old by then.
Elly has already indicated as soon as he is a free agent, he is gone, so it makes sense to trade him now and ask for a king’s ransom. The players you get from trading him can help form the core of the next Reds team. Elly should be able to bring in some top prospects.
You could maybe argue for keeping Abbott and Greene, since they are both 27 and probably still have 5 or 6 good years left. But I also wouldn’t be opposed to trading them since the Reds are unlikely to compete for half of their good years remaining and both would likely net a respectable haul.
Burns, Lowder, Sal, Arroyo, and Marte are the young, under-25 core for the future. Everyone else should be on the block with an eye toward acquiring a new crop of under-25 players to build toward them reaching their primes in about 3 or 4 years. Hopefully Duno and HRod can also be part of those future teams.
The only fly in this whole ointment is that Krall has proven to be utterly inept at trading his high-value players for can’t-miss prospects. I know most prospects don’t work out, but you’d think at SOME point Krall would luck into actually acquiring a decent player. So far, his best acquisition is Steer, who is a solid MLB player. And… That’s it.
Marte and Arroyo could redeem him, but they haven’t shown enough yet. Chase Petty, Connor Phillips, and Brandon Williamson also haven’t shown enough. Fraley was a ok for a little while. All the rest of his trades look pretty bleak.
Either way, the point stands that this window has just about run its course. If the Reds aren’t good enough now, they aren’t likely to be good enough next year or the year after that, so it’s time to look to the future. No sense in persisting with this current crop.
Thanks for your post and it makes since. I was thinking Elly at ss, Arroyo at 2nd Marte in right and Stewart at 1st or 3rd. It is hard for me to give up on the starting rotation. I feel Greene, Lodolo, and Abbott can all win 10+ games and Burns my goodness lol… I see your point though
I still don’t see the fascination with Marte. He has been in the majors for three years now and besides having a good few months has not done much. But, now he is part of the next Red’s core?
Votto, he’s part of the Reds’ “core” in that he’s young enough that he deserves a bit more time to develop.
If he’s still not producing in another year or two when he’s 26, then yes, that’s the point to think about moving on.
Kevin, I also like the rotation of Greene/Abbott/Burns/Lodolo/Lowder, but it’s just a question of ages. If you assume the Reds are not going to be truly competitive for the next 3 or 4 years, then by that point Lodolo will be 32, Abbott will be 31, Greene will be 30, Lowder will be 28, and Burns will be 27.
Lowder and Burns will be in their primes, but Greene, Lodolo, and Abbott will be on the tail end of their prime years. Pitchers tend to decline rapidly once they pass age 30, so it’s a risk to keep them around past that age.
It’s a hard choice to make, but it actually makes sense to trade Greene, Abbott, and Lodolo if you are targeting 2029 or 2030 to compete. And, if they trade Elly, it absolutely makes sense to do so.
If Arroyo does not improve his defense, I would be looking to move him I hope he settles in and I realize it is small sample size, but he does not seem really clean on defense.
Sorry Kevin but the Reds never got hot. From Aug 1st until the end of the season they were 26-26.
Thanka JB. I thought I read they went 12-5 after September 11th or something. Either way, thanks
9-7. But were 9-4 from 15th on. I went from trade deadline on. They had a 5 game losing streak and a 5 game winning streak in there with other little winning and losing streaks spread through out. Just a .500 team . 1-5 against Dodgers before playoffs.
Thanks again JB, I was wrong. So maybe they did back their way in. Still, I never thought they would collapse. Lol….
Aligning for 2028 after the lockout year to the new MLB with a salary cap and floor with it and being a team with money to spend?
https://fansided.com/mlb/terry-francona-isnt-losing-sleep-over-criticism-from-reds-fans
Doug, is this allowed??
Good write up, Kevin. I still love Tito. Does he make some bad decisions at time? Yes but what manager doesn’t? He is dealing with the hand that is dealt him in my opinion.
“He is dealing with the hand that is dealt him in my opinion.”
A very poor hitting team and a bullpen that has been in disaster mode for quite some time. He’s getting paid $5M a year so I think he stays through next year at least which is the end of his current contract.
Much better having him than someone like David Bell who I believe is still getting paid by the Reds this year.
I couldn’t agree more, Melvin.
I fully agree.
Tito has a record of winning. His resume speaks for itself. Dude has shown he can win.
The same cannot be said of this ownership group or the GM.
Ownership has been the one constant through years and years of subpar baseball. Until that is resolved, it really won’t matter who the manager is. A manager has to have resources. Tito has not been given the resources.
I do wonder what was going through Tito’s brain when he took the job. The Reds have a long track record of pinching pennies. He had to know this most likely could not end well. He did not have to come out of retirement.
Don- I think Tito thought if he could do it it Cleveland(who are tight) then he can do it in Cincy. Difference is Clevelands Minor league players are way better. They have depth to replace injuries.
Can’t ask a chef to make a gourmet meal out of catfood, wood shavings, and grass clippings.
Given the same set of players and circumstances, who would be doing better than Tito.
I feel ownership knew they had their man when Tito said he doesn’t concern himself with payroll or roster decisions. They get everything they want—-the legitimacy of having a name guy and no accountability.
Very happy to hear he is not on social media. It’s a waste of time for this kind of work. Same thing for the players too-it’s very non-productive for pros.
I suppose another 12,000 comments on this topic, all diverse and all headed the same direction, won’t make a difference. I will conclude that the Reds are convinced they can’t beat the Brewers and it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any big-league team dealing with that has become nothing short of an insult. (Cue up the “injuries” excuse and make me feel better.)
I don’t even bother watching the games now, and that’s really sad for somebody who believes in a positive outlook about my baseball heroes.
The reds still have a chance (small as it is) to salvage the season but I think it would start by finding a way to win these last 2 games and get a split with the brewers (not an easy ask) …Then you get HG back and Pagan….However, Pagan was terrible before he went on the DL, so there is no gaurantee that he will be much help in the BP. As far as the offense, I don’t know if there is any real hope that anything will change with this group. They only seem to be able to score runs by hitting the HR and the strikouts are a joke with this team. A guy like Friedl is brought back up and he looks like the same player they sent down and the one at-bat I saw last night from Marte…he swung at a pitch for strike three that at no point, when it left the hand of the pitcher, was it ever close to being a strike or close to the plate (the catcher caught the ball a foot & 1/2 off the plate) Unless, something changes, and soon, the season is over.
The Reds should continue to win, and if they do not make the playoffs, and I doubt they will at this point, they should take some pride in themselves and try to atleast have a winning record. The goal each day should be to win.
Get the feeling the Reds will be 15 1/2 out after this series.
The best team in baseball in June, by a decent margin, is the Miami Marlins. They’re about to go 20-6, have outscored opponents 129-78 this month and have the lowest CBT payroll in MLB. The Marlins’ third-highest-paid player is Giancarlo Stanton, who last played for them in 2017.
FROM JEFF PASSAN
In this Reds injury plagued season, and for the last two months with an offense of either swing for the fences or strikeout, plus now all the blow it up and rebuild talk, there’s one not unusual move the Reds can’t seem to make which is try and change direction by replacing the hitting coach.
Not the same (or even close) but OTD in 1973, the Reds trailed the LAD by 11 games in the NL West with 86 games left. They were 39-37 going into the DH that day. Hal King saved the season with 3-run PH HR in 9th inning of first DH game.
They finished 60-26 in the remaining games to beat LAD for the NL West title.
It was not easy. Bobby Tolan struggled the rest of the season and was benched. Dave Concepcion broke his ankle before the ASG. Johnny Bench was coming back from his late 1972 lung surgery. Gary Nolan and Roger Nelson battled arm problems all season. Geronimo, Menke, Chaney, and Plummer all struggled at the plate. George Foster was sent to AAA Indy most of the season. Reds were 103 OPS+ and 100 ERA+ for the year.
@oldtimer how do you come up with the great reds history. Do you have some kind of cheat sheet? Anyway great memories for us
Still remember watching Concepcion’s injury as he was sliding into third base. Watched it on the 9” black and white TV my parents bought me for my 12th birthday. Wish I could go back there.
I think if they lose these last 2 games against the Brewers the season is pretty much over, and the front office needs to think of selling for the most part.
On the other hand the Reds will have about 20 games with De La Cruz, Pagan, Greene back it looks like. Maybe they go 12-8 and convince themselves we could still make a run and will play better in August and the super hard scheduled September.
Maybe it’ll all come together…Suarez hits for power, Stewart has another jolt, Stephenson finishes his free agency year strong, Steer is steady, Arroyo becomes a solid hitter, Greene and Abbott are lights out, Lodolo pitches like last year, bullpen stabilizes, Francona keeps the team together and hall of fame experience kicks in.
But it’s not as if the Reds had a 90-100 win team from last year or 2 years ago that you can look back on and have a deep confidence that this team is capable of a run this summer. They had a very mediocre 83 win team. So even if a lot goes right, maybe they just turn into a 83-85 win type of team.
We have seen flashes of potential, some good spurts with some of these players, but I think it’s probably time to move on from the collection of McLain, Steer, Stepehnson, Friedl, Marte, Lodolo, and a few others. The 2023 class and strategy is close to becoming a closed chapter in Reds history I think. You could potentially add Greene into that group.
A shrewd GM could do some sort of a combination rebuild and still have the Reds competitive for 2027 with a new look in the every day lineup, new prospects in the farm system, along with hitting on 2-3 offseason free agent signings, surrounding Burns, Abbott, De La Cruz, Stewart with different talent and 2027 still would have potential.
I don’t necessarily mean to pick on McLain either. I’ve come to actually appreciate his skills a little more recently, more so as a spot starter, defensive minded player with speed, that especially can spell De La Cruz at SS. His value may actually increase as a backup SS and fill in at 2B, 3B, maybe CF (although not a big fan of that idea) for the Reds rather than a starting 2B.
But on a negative point, I think McLain unfortunately represents the front office believing too much in the 2023 class and stubbornly holding on to certain players, strategies, and ideas, such as starting McLain out as the #2 hitter at the beginning of 2026 after a really bad hitting year in 2025. He gets a little too much flak, but I think it’s because he represents the frustration of the 2023 crew not really becoming what we believed it could be to this point.
@Duke, the problem is the players you’re willing to listen on are the least likely to bring back much in return.
I’d hold tight for the most part this trade deadline, and if the Reds are playing baseball in 2027, I’d make the additions via FA. We really only have 27, 28, and 29 if we hold onto, but don’t extend EDLC, Greene, and Abbott.
I’m really hoping they make a reasonable salary cap and floor in the offseason to keep teams like the Reds from tanking, and the Dodgers from buying a WS.
You can sell without stripping the team bare.
Keep:
Starters: Burns, Greene, Abbott, Lowder
Hitting: Elly, Sal, Arroyo
Bullpen: Petty?, Santillan (he’s hurt, so not tradable, might rebound), Antone (cheap)
Anything and everything else can go without affecting next year too much.
Willing to listen on:
Bleday
Marte
Friedl
Steer
Stephenson
Lowe
McLain
Singer
Lodolo
Moll
Ferguson
Johnson
Burke
Pagan
I only move Bleday if you can sell high on him and get a good return, if you keep him, that’s 4 hitter back for next year. Similarly, I only move Steer if it is for something worthwhile and more than a flier. Steer’s value here is probably more than it is anywhere else. If you keep Steep and Bleday, that’s 5/9 hitters for next year. You can start with Dunn for your 6th starter and Jorge coming up behind him in AAA (where he was just promoted) if Dunn turns back into a pumpkin. I think you can roll with Hector Rodriguez pretty much at any point now and let him develop as a big leaguer. That gives you 7 batters for a lineup for 2027. That leaves you the DH and C to spend your FA money on, as well as building a new bullpen. If you can sell off the bullpen this year, you can run through guys to try them out the rest of this season: Mey, Maxwell, Kuncl, Parks, Lavallee, Misciwisz, etc… and see if you can’t find a gem or two for middle relief next year.
A sell off without a full tear down could be done. And if you do get something of real value for Bleday and Steer, you can shift Hector to LF and look for a RF as well.
On Bleday, there’s a reason hardly anyone signed him, and then there’s a reason a team like the Reds signed him. I kind of don’t think his trade value is very high so I’d hold onto him. He was good signing overall, as he maybe still can produce at an every day level, or maybe he doesn’t, and it wasn’t a big financial risk.
I’d hold onto Bleday and Dunn, but I wouldn’t pencil them in as starters in my mind going into 2027. They just haven’t shown enough to be given those jobs. But there’s hope with those 2.
Yeah I wouldn’t just give away Steer. He’s a valuable player. I like Steer. But it doesn’t appear Steer, Marte, McLain are consistent enough to have your lineup full of them all every day. I’d add Stephenson in there too.
I’m still hoping Friedl has one more push in him. We’ll see…a little sad though, it seems his skills have just dropped off somewhat quickly. I wouldn’t be surprised though if he’s still getting a chance to play somewhere in 2027 with an MLB club.
@theduke. You should be in the reds front office
One last thing before work calls.
I see this team and think if only they can run off 10 in a row. Then, I see the bullpen and think nope. Two nights 3-0 and my thoughts go too, man can bullpen hold up?
I will still cheer and even going to the game Saturday night with cousins. One is attending his first mlb game..
I’ve been to more Savannah Banana games this year than I will go to Reds games. I can watch a better product in Dayton. Not saying the baseball is better, but the product most certainly is.
I’ve been tuning in to indy league games rather than the Reds. I agree, the game isn’t better but I have less emotional energy invested. I only look to see who got homers or RBI’s for the Reds and that’s a couple of hours later.
If I didn’t play fantasy baseball, I probably wouldn’t even check scores outside of the Reds game.
Only go on a 10 game winning streak, and then play +.500 baseball afterward.
Not TOO tall an order. 🙂
Winning those 10 in a row, requires pitching and scoring runs. Hmmmm…..
Since April 21 they’re ran off 3+ once and it ended at 3
Meanwhile the 9 hitter for the Cubs has 3 doubles, triple, and 8 hrs since June 17. Depressing. Fire Krall and start over. Again. Ownership is asleep at the wheel if they act otherwise.
Tyler Stephenson is a free agent after this season.
The Reds could keep JJ Bleday around as he has two more seasons until free agency.
If the Reds were mine….in a few weeks I would (if still not winning)
1) Trade Bleday for a good relief pitcher, if one is available. Bring up Hector Rodriguez to play left field.
2) Ditto, trade Tyler Stephenson now (hitting decently) for something (prospects, I dunno), and bring up Will Banfield to finish the season with Alex Trevino.
3) Trade every player over 30 who does not figure into the future. Nathaniel Lowe, Geno Suarez, Sam Moll, if the Reds are not competitive for a WC spot by the last week of July. Bye-bye Will Benson.
4) Carlos Jorge started his first game with the Bats last night, at AAA. This is your future Reds CF. Maybe he gets a late season call up. Fer shure in 2027. I don’t think the owners and the players are STUPID enough to write off literally BILLIONS and the reputation of the game for a lockout/walkout for the 2027 season.
The Reds have looked particularly bad against the Brewers. Painful to watch. They don’t look quite as bad against everybody else. They just won 2 of out 3 from the Pirates, and the previous weekend won 2 out of3 from the Yankees, in New York. Let’s not jump off the bridge all together.
In order to trade successfully, you have to give up some talent to get what you want in return. It’s not as easy as you think it is.
Howsam was arguably the Reds most successful GM at making trades. Acquired Morgan, Foster, Seaver, Norman, et al. In separate trades, gave away Perez, Grimsley, Andujar, McRae, Harper, Wilcox for little or nothing back.
Reds 19th in payroll
Milw 20, Tampa 23, Pitt 24 (.500), Stl 26, Wash 27, CWS 28, Miami 29, and Clev 30
All above .500 except Pitt. 3 division leaders and 2 current wildcard leaders. Krall gotta go. If they don’t lock out then Reds fans have to lock out til Krall is history
Johnson in LF. McLain in CF tonight.
Stupid Cubs beating the Padres brains out today.radio announcers laughing their heads off.
I think they have 9 home runs.
STUPID CUBS!! 🙂
Actually, they can’t keep this up. Some days they look like giants, then they look like little kittens. They are capable of scoring a lot of runs against lousy pitching, but they can also be pitched to. The Cubs biggest problem is starting pitching. They had a lot of starters hurt. When you score a lot of runs, teams get beaten down, look beaten down. But it is only one game.
The Reds looked beaten down last night, but today is (as Scarlet O’Hara said)….Another day.
PCA is a legit superstar
When the Reds played the Cubs, PCA was batting 8th and 9th. Now he is leading off with like 18 HRs and 280 batting average and getting a lot of MVP support. I don’t know if he has attained superstar status but he is clutch and certainly on such a path. Exactly the type of guy the Reds need. Cowboy’s type of guy with “the edge”.
When the Reds played the Cubs, PCA was batting 8th and 9th. Now he is leading off with like 18 HRs and 280 batting average and getting a lot of MVP support. I don’t know if he has already attained superstar status but he is clutch and certainly on such a path. Always has been looked at as having that type of talent. Cowboy’s type of guy with “the edge”.