Things were going well for Andrew Abbott until they weren’t. And the lack of offense from the Reds made it all worse when Philadelphia finally broke through in the 8th inning to get on the boar and turn a 1-run deficit into a 4-1 ballgame with a big rally with two outs.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Philadelphia Phillies (69-49) | 4 | 8 | 0 |
| Cincinnati Reds (62-58) | 1 | 7 | 1 |
| W: Romano (2-4) L: Abbott (8-3) | |||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
The Reds didn’t waste time getting things going on Monday evening. TJ Friedl doubled to lead off the bottom of the 1st and he would come around to score on a single by Gavin Lux to put the home team up 1-0.
Andrew Abbott was cruising for much of the day, and he got a little defensive help along the way, too. In the 2nd inning Ke’Bryan Hayes made a phenomenal diving play to rob J.T. Realmuto of a hit in.
While Abbott was doing his job to keep the Phillies off the board, Taijuan Walker was going the same thing against Cincinnati after that 1st inning. With a 1-0 deficit in the 7th, Bryce Harper led off with a double. J.T Realmuto found himself on the wrong side of things this inning as he was robbed of a hit on a barehanded grab and throw by Elly De La Cruz, but Harper moved to third on the play. Nick Castellanos then hit a fly ball to right field and Harper tagged up, but Noelvi Marte fired a 93 MPH laser to the plate to easily beat him for a double play to end the inning and keep the Reds up by a run.
Andrew Abbott headed back to the mound for the 8th inning and struck out Harrison Bader and Otto Kemp to start the inning, but then gave up a single to Edmundo Sosa. Weston Wilson then doubled into the left field corner and after the ball rattled around in the corner it got by Gavin Lux long enough to allow Sosa to score from first to tie the game up. Trea Turner followed up with an RBI single to put the Phillies up 2-1. That spelled the end of the day for Abbott. Tony Santillan entered the game to face Kyle Schwarber and he hit a 2-run home run on the second pitch he was to make it 4-1.
Cincinnati didn’t roll over in their half of the 8th. Spencer Steer led off with a walk and he moved up two second base when Gavin Lux connected for a 2-out single to keep the inning alive and bring the tying run to the plate. Noelvi Marte couldn’t come through, grounding into a force out to send the game to the 9th.
After the Phillies went scoreless in their half of the 9th, the Reds stepped into the box against Orion Kerkering hoping to put together a rally. They didn’t as Kerkering sat them down in order on 10 pitches as Philadelphia took a 4-1 win to open the 3-game series in Cincinnati.
Key Moment of the Game
The top of the 8th inning when the Phillies rallied for four runs with two outs to turn a 1-run deficit into a 3-run lead.
Notes Worth Noting
Gavin Lux had three hits. Everyone else had four between them on the night.
The Phillies had five extra-base hits in the game. The Reds had one.
Cincinnati’s pitchers walked no one.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Philadelphia Phillies vs Cincinnati Reds
Tuesday August 12th, 1:35pm ET
Ranger Suarez (8-5, 2.94 ERA) vs Brady Singer (9-9, 4.53 ERA)
This bullpen is gassed. The only positive is that the Mets may lose even more than the Reds, however some team like the Cardinals could get hot and overtake both teams. Even if we get in as the last wildcard it will be a quick series.
Santillan especially so. His 60 game appearances lead all of MLB and are 50% of the Reds games.
Just not going to win many ML games when you only score one run. Especially against top hitting teams like Phillies. Great effort by Abbott.
Yes, great effort by Abbott after a bad start, but I’m afraid the starters will be leaned on as the bullpen is shaky.
TennTom, totally agree! We have to be one of the MLB leaders in only scoring one run. Lux can hit and he really makes the pitcher work but he should not be playing LF.
Trying to win 1-0 to this Phillies team is really hard. Reds have the chance to score some runs in the first third of the game but as it has been happening last week they were unable to do it. The offense is an often problem. On the other hand, I don’t know why Tito was counting on only Abbott in a 1-0 crucial game despite he threw a very good game through 7.2 IP, he reached around 100 pitches and the game was huge to get it…
Only one extra-base it yet once again!
Singer vs those guys? Not likely. Mets aren’t going to lose to Atlanta either. They’ll rip off 8 of 10 shortly because they’re streaky. Just can’t keep losing games when you’re up in the 7th & 8th. Not a bad team, but definitely not a good team either. Maybe next year you make MM & Steer earn full-time status. .650 or less for most of the season doesn’t cut it. Good team would love to have Lux batting 8th or 9th at 2B. Only place you can hide that hack
Steer was at .606 on June 17. Thats ridiculous
I think Steer batted over .300 for the month of June if I’m not mistaken. July and August have not been good except for his clutch hits. Elly in August has been horrendous. There is no place for Lux except maybe 2nd and move McLain to left as he had a better arm and played center in college I believe. Reds are always trying to stick guys where they shouldn’t be. They seem to think that guys can play anywhere. Andujar has played 1st 3 times in his career and it showed the other day. For a GM who wants defense first and then sticks hacks like Lux in left just makes me scratch my head.
EDLC needs to move to center or right, Marte to left. Marte made a very poor attempt at a ball that he let go to the wall, showed he’s not athletic enough for right. He does have a good arm, and proved that once again, but so does EDLC. MM to short, Lux to second, where he’ll platoon with Espy. Lux’s average is up near .280 once again after a bit of a slump, so he needs to be in there. But he’s no LFer, proved that once again. EDLC and MM don’t work so well together up the middle. They are both used to being shortstops and both want to call the shots on the infield. MM defers to EDLC, but you can tell he doesn’t like it. MM has the potential of being a team leader, while EDLC does not have the personality for it. MM should be short, especially since they’ve got Lux.
Heck no. EDLC’s arm and range is worth an out or two each and every game. McLain doesn’t make that play on Realmuto. Putting Elly in the OF is doing the opposition a favor.
Marte has only played a handful of games in the outfield, so doesn’t it seem premature to declare that he’s not athletic enough for right field? He has a terrific arm and is fast–two attributes you want in an outfielder.
Marte just needs reps. That said, his baseball acument is still suspect, no matter where he plays, though he is still young.
Abbott probably had to be very careful when pitching tonight, since the Reds can’t hit worth a darn….Kyle Schwarber is a FA next year, I believe. Reds really really should try to get him, especially since he is from Middletown. He will be a huge upgrade in hitting. But, even though they should, Reds won’t pay him the money he wants. Hayes will be good defensively, but not hit very much. Which, this is what the Reds are all about, getting players and keeping players that can’t hit. Reds management absolutely hates trying to acquire players that can help the hitting, so because of their hatred of hitting, they just ignore this area.
Bob isn’t paying big dollars for Schwarber.
Right Schwaber is a 30 mil/year guy. Reds would rather sign a couple 10-15 mil/year guys and then eat their contracts the next year when they predictably suck.
That would be huge and exactly what a young team like ours needs.
Yes, they absolutely should not only try but get him!
They don’t hate hitting: they hate spending.
Imagine sticking 45 homers in the middle of the Reds lineup. Its obvious to everyone except the FO. Shwaurber is the type of leader that could completely change the team’s chemistry in a good way. Instead we commit to a defense-first player at a corner infield spot that has 4 honers in over 400 at bats this year. It will take a long time to get the stink off of the moves this FO has made over the last couple of years. The clock is ticking on Abbott, Elly, Marte, Greene and Lodolo as far as their bills coming due. Stop with the senseless one year 5 million deals for guys like Hays and go get your guy for goodness sakes.
Tomorrow’s game is at 1:35pm ET? I thought MLB.com is showing it for 6:40pm ET…
It’s an evening start. 6:40 PM. I just bought tickets today.
Going to be a tough week.
Reds committed at the start to play MM and Steer every day and they continue to pay for it.Tyler just doesn’t appear interested at times.Swings at every thing one at bat and never swings at anything the next at bat.Trevino needs most of the playing time the rest of the way.Lux hits singles and can only play second base either set him or play him there and there only.Fraley in left against righties,Hays against lefties.Andujar at DH the rest of the way and Marte in right the rest of the way.MM and Steer should play less the rest of the way.Bring em in for defense late if you want to and who ever can play first bring em up.Stewart maybe I don’t know maybe Rios
Perhaps Andujar should bat second. Neither Steer nor MM should, we know that. But hitting EDLC 3rd is an issue too. He’s simply not good enough to be this team’s big bat!
Traditionally, a team’s best overall hitter hit 3rd and best power man hit 4th/cleanup. To be fair, EDLC probably is their best overall hitter, but what a mediocre best hitter! His numbers are solid, though. Trout’s numbers were always solid, and he usually wasn’t at the top of any stat list any particular year. But, then, the Angels never made it to the WS with him, and he only went to the playoffs with them once, and that was when he was not a star yet.
I think this game, when you consider the schedule, is the beginning of the end. Even 85 wins is out of reach, let alone 88.
85 W would need 23-19 the rest of the season. That can be done.
He said the same thing in April.
Good growing pains for this team. PHI could win the whole thing. We could have easily won this game. Need guys to draw more walks and pass the baton. Santillan knows the next level he needs to reach. He dominates most of the second tier teams. Tonight was Schwarber and company. I did not see Lux’ throwing error. How bad and costly was it?
It was bad, but not costly.
The horses were already out of the barn.
Lux, if he’s going to play, has to either DH or spell McClain at 2nd, although even there he’s not great. While he had 3 hits tonight, I say he’s at least responsible for 1, if not 2 runs, that weren’t from the end of Schwars’ bat. His defense is atrocious in left.
And Tito has done a pretty great job with the bullpen all year, but not having someone up at the start of the 8th, just in case, was malpractice, with Abbot approaching 100 pitches. And pr’lly not Santiallian, given how much he’s been used – I think I would have preferred Barlow first. However, I get bringing him in for the contrast with Abbot – way more speed vs Abbot’s craftiness.
Alas, tonight we couldn’t get it done, and that was pr’lly our best shot at a win. Now just gotta hope we can avoid the sweep.
Why I can rarely spell Matt McLain’s name right is a mystery to me, oof.
Just blame it on the autocorrect! Sometimes it does it to me on the fly, but then tells me it has done it; so I can go back and change it. 😉
Just a horrible loss, bottom line the Reds offense is horrible and Elly with no power in the 3 hole is not working.
bat Elly behind Freidl and Marte behind Elly with Andujar 4th.
Marte should bat 4th, then Lux, then Steer or Stephenson. Andujar second.
Now one game ahead of St. Louis, that is upsetting. They have 2 more with the Rockies and 3 with the Yankees. They may pass the Reds by Wednesday night.
Abbott has to finish off the strike out. He was up no balls and two strikes to the number 8 hitter. Then allows the 9th batter to get a hit. He is a good pitcher, however he is no ace. A ace would of struck out Sosa period.
This loss is on Abbott
francona as well, he pushed him way too far.
How so Mark? Abbott was cruising along. Struck out first two batters.
When the team scores one run, it’s hard to blame the pitcher. We all know they used up this week’s offense last night. Can they keep their streak of not being swept alive this week? Feels iffy at the moment.
Disagree, Abbott didnt get the job done. He is average pitcher at best
Average? Seriously? He has a 2.41 ERA or a 194 ERA+ if you prefer new metrics. And a 3.33/136 for his career. Hard to call that average. He likely the most effective pitcher the Reds have at the moment. One run. Just one run. That says everything.
Average pitcher at best? Lol the Phillies announcers were saying all game what a great pitcher he is and he is one of the best in the game.
Sarcasm everyone. Being sarcastic this evening. Relax
Sarcasm? In standard font?
I dont know how to do sarcasm font LDS. LOL
Good grief, Kevin! He pitched a brilliant game against a good hitting team. No pitcher in the HOF had a career without losses.
Please, Kevin. 8th inning and his pc was nearly 100. Not on Abbott. On Tito for not pulling him sooner.
Nevermind. Sarcasm font…
If the Reds had a reliable pen, he never would have been in there.
Tito’s reasoning was that he was showing no signs of weakening, and he proved it by striking out the first two batters in the eighth. Pagan and Santillan have both been very good, and Pagan hasn’t been over-taxed lately, so the overall quality of the pen doesn’t really enter in to it. Had Tito pulled Abbott after the 7th, legions of us would have been up in arms.
He was tired from carrying the team for 7 innings. He took a shutout into the 8th inning when your bullpen needed it most, Abbott pitched a gem. You’re asking him to be perfect and thats not going to happen. The loss was Abbotts fault yet the offense scores 1 run? Its hard to believe because we are all Reds fans, but other teams out there try to win games by out scoring the opponents.
In my mind the inevitable is here already. It’s time to use Hayes as a defensive replacement utility player, move one from Espinal, and install Stewart at 3B. That is if we want to have a better chance of scoring more runs and winning more games. That would be a bold move which Krall is NOT known for. This move would have NOTHING to do with cheap owners. It’s right there for the taking with NO extra money needed.
What if Stewart bombs and cant hit major league pitching? Then what? Another Hinds?
First of all I’d ask what have we got to lose? Second and more importantly Stewart might be the best all around hitter in the organization.
I agree Melvin. I am just being sarcastic this evening. I made a post below.
Kevin H – You know we don’t allow sarcasm here. 😉
Not happening Melvin and you know it. Hayes is the centerpiece of Krall’s trade deadline moves. He is starting most of the remaining games this season and likely most for the next several years. Get used to middle of the pack, I suspect that’s Krall’s commitment-develop from within, smooth out those peaks and valleys. He told us what he is. We just wanted to believe it was more. The reds will finish with a winning record this year, but it might be close.
Well I hope it happens but even if it doesn’t Krall needs to be called out on the baloney he created with the Hayes trade.
Yep.
Great dialogue guys. Stewart could possibly help this club but….. That would in essence be Krall admitting he grossly misjudged his “improved offense” and “excited players”. Hayes brought no indication that he would offer more offense than Espinal. While Suarez brought a heck of a lot indication. And our competition San Diego brought in Laureano and Ohearn for prospects toward seeing if they could stay ahead of the Reds. That is how these deadline moves are going to be evaluated. Did borderline teams like San Diego, Cincinnati, and Seattle add enough to sneak into the playoffs.
I don’t think Seattle is sneaking into the playoffs.
And I don’t think the Padres are either. They may yet win the NL West. The Dodgers pitching is actually pretty bad. They are in the lower third of all baseball in team ERA (as are the foundering Yankees).
Their offense and run scoring keeps them above water.
David, at the trade deadline, Seattle and the Reds had the same exact record. And San Diego was leading the NL Wildcard by 2 games over the Reds. The Pads were the Reds main nemesis for making the playoffs. It has been 11 days since the trade deadline and the picture or standing between the 3 clubs has changed quite a bit, as you note. I only note that 11 days ago, all 3 teams were at the same spot with roughly the same probability of making it to October games.
You’ll see Hayes in a Reds uni for the next 4 years at least. Get used to it. Unless Lux is traded and/or the team moves on from MM, I don’t see where these hot prospects are going to play. Both Stewart and HRod will play at the very least one month at AAA to start ’26, and that just to have them around longer.
Hayes saves runs, Melvin. A penny saved is a penny earned. A run saved is a run earned. We’ve seen ample examples lately of the importance of good defense.
You are right. But many of us will contend that we needed offensive pieces like Suarez or Laureano. Hayes being a 5 year commitment could have waited until the winter and money and resources being better spent on rentals like Littell and Andujar (and bullpen and offense). There is also the argument of Hayes himself. Do you make a $30M long term commitment to a #9 hitter? On top of other long term weaker hitters like McLain, Steer, Benson, and Stephenson? It just seems to me that this team has the same weaknesses and holes that we had last winter when we spent $50M on free agents ….all of who have come close to meeting expectation. And Hayes may end up doing the same. 235 and great fielder. Just not the right guy for the needs.
We needed offensive pieces, too.
@greenmtred
That logic would apply if there were anyone on the team that could produce runs. You need production offensively– from every player. You cannot have a guy like Hayes in your lineup everyday when the roster is constructed like the Reds. Its not a premium position and your defense should be strong up the middle. Hayes hitting .230 with 5 homers a year is going to be fun to watch for the next 4 or 5 years. Hey, he will make a great play here and there though. I’ve seen him cost the team with his (lack of a) bat so far. His defense has helped but you were running Candelario and CES out there for crying out loud. Anyone would be better. Krall takes no accountability on that. He constantly is trying to correct his own created problems. He called Candy a sunken cost. Go try that with your boss when you cost him 30 million dollars.
We are asking pitchers and the defense to be perfect every night in order to overcome the offense. The 2020 playoffs should taught us all that you need to SCORE RUNS. Even when you are preventing them. They couldn’t muster a single run with Castellanos and company, what do you think this team would do in the playoffs?
In theory I cannot argue with you as far as defensive importance. It’s just not the right move for the team right now with the FO being allergic to acquiring players who can produce offense. Trevino, Lux and Hays have been average offensively. Add all of that up and you have an average team, average on paper and average on the field.
greenmtred – It doesn’t matter how many you save if you don’t score runs in the first place. haha I’m one of those “silly” people that believe there are still players left out there who can both hit and play defense. Sparky and the Big Red Machine would not have carried a player like Hayes. lol If they had the famous Rose to 3B and Foster to LF would have never happened. Neither one was great at defense but both were adequate and could HIT. Krall likes to find players who can do one or the other. That’s the easy way out.
Sal Stewart won’t win any gold gloves but he’s only made three errors all year. Two with the Lookouts and one with the Bats. That fact to go along with his 2025 stats are good enough for me for him to play 3B for the Reds until he proves he can’t.
Lookouts: .306/.377/.473/.850
Bats: .313/.371/.588/.959
https://www.milb.com/player/sal-stewart-701398?stats=career-r-hitting-minors&year=2025
Mets, Reds, Cardinals, Giants, Diamondbacks and Marlins. By Monday the Reds may be behind 3 of these teams for the last spot. Bottom line they just can’t hit including Elly who seems to escape all blame.
Also bring up HRod and leave him in left. Lux to DH.
From a Charlie Goldsmith article tonight:
“Now, following Monday’s 4-1 loss to the Phillies, the Reds are tied for seventh in MLB with the most games where they’ve scored two runs or fewer. The Reds’ 41 games in that category only trail teams (the Pirates, Royals, Rockies, Rangers, White Sox and Nationals) that have some of the worst offenses in the sport.”
And Texas, Washington, and Chicago all won the season series vs. the Reds. And who knows how Pittsburgh series ends up at season end
Embarrassing state of affairs … goes back directly to GM …. Who is clueless
Unlike Sadak’s blabber, this is a nice factoid from Charlie. I think many or most of us thought something of this sort being the reality. I don’t know how a manager deals with a situation like this because what is the cause? I can only think of the trades for Candelario and Hayes that still make no sense whatsoever and the roster construction (or, as nearly always) something about the POBO.
Well I felt if I didn’t complain or whine. I wouldn’t fit in wit a few tonight.
Reds lost, it isnt the end of the world or season. Yet the next two weeks will tell alot. If Stewart and Rodriguez can help this team get them here.
Been a fun season for sure.
I would not call this a fun season at all, more like a frustrating one.
Another stellar material job by Tired OLD Tito. Screaming at my TV after the 2 out walk in the 8th take Abbott out. Also, fantastic decision to leave Lux in left late in the game. So happy to have Tired OLD Tiio as our so-called manager, he doesn’t care about Cincinnati baseball or winning. Biding his time ‘til he can finally retire,hopefully real soon
He didn’t walk anyone. None of the Reds did. If you’re going to engage in hyperbole, at least read Doug’s write-up first. Going for a mocking, equivalence between comments about Bell in the past and Francona now? If so, you’re working far too hard. It doesn’t exist.
Looking at Stewart and Rodriguez’ Triple A stats, boy it’s hard not to wonder if you brought at least one of them up to hit every day in the lineup could it help the Reds?
I really doubt the Reds will bring either up. Maybe Stewart, but I’d be surprised. I think they’re going to ride with the team they have for the rest of the way the most part.
There is the chance you bring those guys up and they don’t perform, and then you’ve lessened their trade value as prospects too. The Reds seem to have done that a lot unintentionally the last few years. A lot of teams would still take a chance on CES, Hinds, Petty, Phillips etc. still, but they wouldn’t bring back the value they’d have brought back 1-2 years ago.
Elly De La Cruz looks more like Billy Hamilton hitting than Eric Davis the last 100 at bats or so. He just looks tired sometimes, or physically not peak. Maybe just the grind of the season slowing him down a bit. Hopefully he has a couple more hot streaks this season.
EDLC’s numbers are solid, but he’s not the superstar that they sold him as. Though, he makes too many errors at short, needs to move to the OF. And he could certainly be traded. That would free up a spot for HRod or Stewart, whereas currently there’s nowhere for them to play.
Why in the heck would you want to trade Elly? SMH
You might want to trade him because he isn’t going to sign with the Reds and, despite his not yet being a player who leads and carries a team, he’s very good and his potential to become that guy is undeniable. And because he might conceivably bring back a significant power bat. And because shortstop is a position of organizational strength. I’m not necessarily in favor of trading him, but there are plausible reasons for doing so.
@Greenmtred. Good explanation and I would think you could get a solid return. I am hopeful he turns it on next season. He has had a good year but power numbers down a bit.
And for him, this season is being played in the context of a probable hamstring issue which might account for the reduction in power and speed.
We are still in the Wild Card race. I’m chomping at the bit for Stewart and Rodriguez but the focus should be on the Wild Card race in August. If we fade, call them up. 2 guys will have to fall off the 40MR to do it though.
I suspect that if the Reds have fallen out of serious wild card contention by the last week of August, we could see a parade of guys being placed on the waiver wire. Each guy claimed would open a spot on both the 40 and 26 man roster.
Prime candidates I see on the position side are Lux, Fraley, and Andujar. Why? Andujar will be a free agent for 2026, while Lux and Fraley will be in their last year of arbitration eligibility.
Why the last week of August? Because guys must be in an organization on Sept 1 to be eligible for the postseason, thus making these players more likely to be claimed. Also, the Reds would shed roughly $500K- $525K in salary per guy claimed as all three are making $3m-$3.3m for the season.
Good point. I’d hold onto Andujar, but let Fraley and Lux go, and take my chances with Rodriguez and Stewart. Could be the jolt of new energy and shakeup of chemistry this team needs. Of course that would require a manger who’s on board with such a Hail Mary and we know that’s not the case.
Sultan>> Andujar is going to be a service time free agent in the off-season. Unless they feel certain they can sign him in the period between now and the free agency opening, they might as well “shop” him on waivers as hold on to him IMO because they can make a run at him as a free agent if they wish.
As far as Fraley, I’ve wondered if they have already run him through waivers with no takers, given his decreased role over the last week.
Jim, unfortunately your outlook could be correct. But putting 3 guys on waivers accomplishes nothing as far as advancing the ball. Puts a few million $ into the owners pockets but little else. As I said before the trade deadline, the worst thing Krall could was make a half hearted run for the playoffs getting nothing in return for expiring contracts, and we had several of those having solid years and worthy of return of a top 10 prospect. Look what Krall paid for 2 months of Littell. Similar for 2 months of Pagan, Martinez, Hayes, and a little less for Barlow and Lux. His choice at the deadline was 1) trading 3-4 prospects like the Pads and Seattle and beefing up the bullpen and power hitting, or 2) throwing in the towel and trading 4-5 expiring contracts for prospects and bringing up Hinds, Benson, CES, and pitching (???). For their umpteenth audition. Except that would result in a very boisterous fan uproar and what fricking pitching did he have warranting an exhibition. In reality, that probably wasn’t even an option.
We don’t know yet whether Krall’s deadline approach is a complete whiff but the 2 week returns indicate we are not an improved team and we are not gaining ground on the target opposition(Pads and Cubs). The Mets were like 18 games over 500 and were assumed to be a lock. Krall’s plan had to be aimed at 87 wins or more. Something like 32-25 down the stretch. Now something more like 26-17.
Maybe we will get to 8-9 over 500 as we approach the end of the month, and Krall will go hunting on the waiver wire for additions. I don’t expect powerbats will be there but maybe there will be bullpen pieces better than our bottom 3-4. We may have first pick of the contending teams.
If we end up dumping bodies on the waiver wire, I can not imagine that will be under Krall’s employment.
What about moving Elly up to the lead off spot. Try to get him going again.
Buy the team Snoop!!!
In all seriousness i give a lot of credit to the reds ownership’s business model.
These concert series games are drawing big crowds. Scheduling the yankees and dodgers during the week… very smart indeed.
For the 3rd year in a row the reds will draw north of 2 million with very average teams.
I doubt that any team has anything to say about future scheduling. If the Reds can get Schwarber in the offseason, I think they’ll draw 3 million for the first time.
@RedNat, But based on how the Reds drew fans in the 1970s, if they put a better team on the field versus using the team as an undercard for concerts, they might draw closer to or even over 3 million without the nuisance or cost of post-game dog and pony shows.
The Reds don’t make their schedule. MLB does.
I am sure the Yankees and Dodgers were scheduled during the week days for Cincy because WEEKENDS are premium draws, and somebody else gets that pretty, shiny thing.
To me, it’s amazing that Milwaukee scores as many runs as they do, with players that have about the same OPS (teamwise) as Cincy does.
They steal a lot more bases, and appear to be very good at situational hitting, and their pitching lets them win a lot of close games.
Confidence, which the Reds do not have in large amounts.
All through the Votto years, this team hit well and was good defensively. Errors were rare as were shutouts. Pitching, especially starting, was the issue. So they focus on pitching, starting especially. And the starters are very good, but the pen isn’t, and the team can’t hit and isn’t good on D. This is the problem with our microscopic way of looking at things. Everything is under a microscope nowadays, and when one looks through a microscope, though one becomes superhuman, being able to see things that the naked eye can’t, one can’t see anything else around. They over-focused on starting and forgot all the other aspects of the game. They over-corrected themselves, one of the great human weaknesses.
Wow, I’d have to disagree a little with your first sentence. Reds best offense during the Votto years was 2010. It went downhill after that. Starting pitching was not that bad, and was very good in 2012. We had two pretty good starters in Castillo and Mahle who we traded for all the young studs we’re trying to nuture now. The microscope analogy is apt…addressing all your needs is like playing 3-D chess, very difficult.
Tough loss … I’ve been all for playing McLain at 2B and expected his bat to respond by now. After missing all of last season, he may be wearing down a bit. Extra rest could be in order from here on out. When we’re facing RHP, I would use Lux at 2B and Fraley in LF. Fraley in LF and Lux at 2B is a better defensive alignment. The Hayes acquisition has hurt us against RHP–we need to get one of our strong-side platoon players back in the lineup to counter Hayes’s bat. I have to admit, Hayes’s glove at 3B is something to behold–he’s really good defensively, but you can only go defense-first at one spot, especially on a weak-hitting team.
Preach BK and the church just said amen
I think we’ll look back and that Marte throw to the plate will be the high water mark. We looked like we were going to be just 1 game out. No offense most of the time. Nobody takes a pitch to let a runner steal. No hit-n-runs. Friedl thought about a squeeze the other day and I about fell off my chair. He’s the only one that ever bunts.
No creativity at all. No aggressiveness. Don’t tell me they couldn’t hit-n-run w/Lux right now. Or Marte? Was Tito really this bland his whole career? Didn’t he have Ramirez and Big Papi on Boston? Idk? Whatever he had before is not what he has now and he’s not adjusting
Francona is a winner. Whatever he did in Boston and Cleveland worked Indy.
People all year last year complained about reds running into outs. Now they don’t run enough.
Now I am not saying they couldn’t hit and run more, or steal more. As they most certainly could. Let’s give Francona another year to turn this team around. They for all their struggles are still in playoff chase.
I like Tito and I think he’s a good manager for the Reds. But what he did in Boston and Cleveland was have strong rosters, just like every other manager we consider successful. Did he make a difference on those teams? Almost certainly. Would he have won with those teams if he’d had poor rosters? Certainly not.
They were facing the Phillies # 5 starter and scored one run. That tells you everything you need to know.
Tonight and tomorrow are going to be a real struggle against the Phils.
Francona seems to like staying with his starter longer than the previous manager did. That’s good if the offense has provided a few extra runs for the starter, late in the game, to rely on. To reenergize Elly in the playoff push, perhaps he could leadoff followed by Friedl, who can bunt, followed by Marte. The top three in the batting order have speed which could energize the Reds offense to score early.
Somebody mentioned that while Elly is a nice player he is not the superstar that the Reds made him out to be. I am sorry but that is 100% correct. His total lack of power or clutch hitting has really hurt. How many teams have their #3 hitter hitting 1 home run in a month and !/2? The answer to that question has got to be 1, the Reds. I will be surprised if they play .500. I hope I am wrong but I just don’t think this team can compete with the upcoming schedule.
When you have the limited amount of protection that EDLC has batting behind him it is very difficult to be a difference maker. Another point is I would hate to see how this season would have turned out without EDlC.
Feel sorry for Abbott, he was pitching a great game against a very talented team, Reds just don’t have it. As I said before, with the lineup struggling to hit with RISP, they’d have to limit their opponents to one run or less most of the time in order to win a game.
Most of the time Santillan has gotten the job done, but his hard percentages are bad. Good hitters (Cubs, Phils) have gotten to him. We’d like him to be high leverage, but I don’t trust him in the 8th inning of a win or go home WC game. Really wish the team had gotten some bullpen arms, but it is what it is. Oh well, today’s a new day.
I am not going to do that “give me names” garbage, but we need to get a grip about all these fresh bullpen upgrades who allegedly were on the market in July. I doubt any of them have any fewer innings on their arms and if they were (cheap) trade bait, they aren’t upgrades.
I want Santillan to pitch in that spot every time he can. Make a bad pitch to the Middie Mauler — and pay. Santillan can pitch better and does about 90 pct. of the time. Hindsight is not insight.
Schwarber would be MVP if the scribes weren’t in love with Ohtani.
You make a fair point about who may or may not have been available and what the cost might have been, but Tony’s hard hit percentages and xERA numbers don’t lie. They’re not numbers that make you confident he will continue to miss good bats. Savant his him at like 17th percentile, IIRC. If anything, it’s probably got a lot to do with him being overused, which circles us right back to “I wish the team had gotten some legitimate relievers.” YMMV.
Yeah, it struck me that the entire situation after the 2 out double by the number 8 batter, Sosa, was very tough for Tito given the three batter rule for pitchers if they do not close the inning.
If he brings Santillian to face number 9, Wilson, then Francona is committed to Santillian facing Schwarber if the inning gets that far. My guess he wanted to avoid that match-up and felt the best shot was to stick with Abbott.
Then, after Wilson and Turner drove in 2 runs, with Abbott looking totally spent (104 pitches), he ended up with Schwarber versus Santillian anyway. What the Reds needed was a leverage LH arm to face Schwarber (and Harper if needed). Where was Taylor Rogers when he could have been a difference maker? With the Cubs, you say?!? 😉
From the luxury of my living room, I wondered why they didn’t walk Schwarber and take their chances with Harper (gulp). A fifth run if Harper tagged one in that situation wasn’t likely to make any difference.
With Greene back Wed. and hopefully Lodolo soon, Martinez and Burns can help bolster the bull pen.
Look, Schwarber is just a monster. The pitch he homered on was on the upper edge of the strike zone, middle in, perhaps a bit too much over the plate, but if you look at his heat map, high and inside is where you want to pitch him. As it was, the game was already lost if it played out the same.
I hate to throw cold water on this Elly isnt a superstar and is regressing narrative….but here’s an ice bath.
Elly is having a great year. He’s in the running for a Silver slugger, has increased his walk rate, cut his K rate while BA and OBP are great and slugging is similar. He has stole more bases and scored more runs than any SS in the NL. He is second in HR behind Lindor. He’s second among SS in RBI behind Perdomo. He is second in wRC+ in the NL over a group of stars, including Lindor, Betts, Turner, Abrams, Bogarts, Abrams, and Adames.
Hes going to score 100 runs, drive in 100 runs, steal 40 bases and hit 25 home runs and maybe/probably win the Silver Slugger at SS in the NL and finish with a WAR over 5 again. AS for baserunning, read the ESPN capsule.
ESPN has an article on updated top 100 players in MLB
Elly checks in at #15 and this is the comment. That’s a bona-fide star as well as approaching superstar status.
: De La Cruz’s second full season as a major leaguer has been a step forward in nearly every offensive category. He’s getting on base more and striking out significantly less while providing a similar slugging output. He’s stealing fewer bases, but he’s also getting caught less while supplying the highest baserunning value in the sport. The metrics suggest he’s regressed defensively at shortstop, but De La Cruz, still just 23 years old, remains on a SUPERSTAR track for an organization battling for a postseason ticket.
Good stuff old-school. Other players need to step up. Especially Stephenson and McLain.
Overall stats are either the whole story, part of the story or a deflection from it. Of late, he’s had few long hits, steals rarely, but has played a much better SS and tends to get on base a lot — all of which suggests that 5 or 6 other guys in the lineup have a standard to reach.
So I think the problem is that we are expecting one player to do the work of 3 others, and from game to game, those names change.
I never think much about the whole season’s numbers when I’m looking at a specific game when the lack of a base hit costs you the inning.
Elly doesn’t need fixing. He’s doing what he should — overall. But in order to win games, that’s not enough if at least 2 players in the lineup are OPS’s in the .280s.
Well Said!!!
But do you think the Reds organization have the guts or money to keep him in a Reds uniform?
Just last week during the speedway game on espn, they put up a stat. Elly fastest player in MLB history to 100 extra base hits and 100 SB. If anyone is hating on Elly at this point they are clueless or something worse.
My experience is that some folks can be something worse and clueless that they are.
Elly just needs players hitting in front of him and in back of him that opposing pitchers have to actually pitch in order to get them out.For most of the year that has been MM and Hays.No pitcher is concerned about them.Sliders sliders and more sliders off the plate and set down or roll over.MM has been awful and Hays is on a down hill spiral.One is trying to prove he belongs and other one is playing for a bigger check somewhere else.Not working our for either one.Tyler and Steer were to be part of the future and have played as if they have reached their ceiling.Reds will need several new players to fill in the holes on offense but it will not happen this year.Play on but Elly is not the problem.Think how awful they would have been without him.
1000% agree
“Reds will need several new players to fill in the holes on offense but it will not happen this year.”
Nor will it happen next year unless Rodriguez and Stewart become great players. The Reds aren’t signing anybody over 15 mil a year and realistically 10. This team needs a power bat at DH,LF ,3B,1B. Trading for Hayes was ok if you get power bats at the other 3 spots. Steer will hit 20 HRs and play gold glove defense. I’ll take that if he can hit a consistent .250. He was hot in June and nothing since. I was all for keeping Hays but not now. Not sure why he seems to think he needs to hit every pitch in the river but it’s not working and 10 HRs isn’t working. The Reds have never had a good DH since the beginning. They need somebody like Schwarber to fill that void but Bob is to cheap to sign him and Schwarber is to smart to come here. Stay in Philly and have a chance to win every year. Bullpen needs at least 4 decent pitchers. They need to resign Pagan and add to Santillan and Barlow. Let Ashcraft be your long reliever.
For me it is truly discouraging to be a reds fan no matter how positive I am. As mentioned Elly has no protection so he is pitched differently now.
Hays hasn’t produced nor has Mclain. I understand he is coming off a injury and maybe next year. Hinds and CES seem to not have positions to play now.
As mentioned Reds wont go out and spend money or make trades to show they are all in. Stewart now doesnt have a position to play with Hayes at 3rd and Mclain at 2nd. So just a confusing ran organization to me.
Agreed Kevin. That Hayes deal is just perplexing…both short term and long term.
Nobody is saying Elly is not a good player. The problem is he is not your typical #3 hitter he would be much better at #2. I still think he needs to drive the ball more, even if it costs a few strikeouts.
Elly .813 ops? Aren’t there atleast 50 regulars in mlb w/higher ops then that? If thats a superstar then CES, Friedl, Benson, Steer were all superstars in 2023 and I missed it.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad to have Elly, but this team can’t thrive with him at .813? Have all the numbers dropped across the board since 2023? I’m guessing so, but thats a different topic and bad for the game.
If a third of your games involve no scoring then you’ve become soccer, which is a game full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
2026 bring in some actual hitters for the Reds and bring back the magic rubber ball from 1987. All the #s jumped up that year for some reason? This year ain’t happening. If you can’t beat up their 5th-6th starter/swingman then who can we hit? Takes 3 singles to score a run.
Finally Tito has been exposed. Age perhaps, but he’s Phil Jackson with the Knicks, Jimmy Johnson with Miami
If hitting were the literal only thing we counted as value, then you’d have a point about Elly. But it’s not. Defense matters. Position played matters. Baserunning matters.
Fangraphs currently has Elly De La Cruz as the 16th most valuable position player in MLB. Is that a superstar in terms of value? I’d say no. It’s close-ish, though. Particularly because it’s also coming off of a year in which he was the 8th most valuable position player in MLB and he’s 9th if we combine 2024 and 2025.
When you toss in the marketability and the flash of highlights he provides? I think you could easily argue that yeah, he’s a superstar.
Good points…I get it. I’m just saying we need more out of him. Philly can still thrive w/Turner at .766, but we can’t. We need 30/50 along with the improved K/bb ratio. We have no margin for error and no other gamebreakers….which is not his fault of course.
You both seem to get it and don’t at the same time.
You seem to get it when you say “it’s not his fault” but then don’t seem to get it by saying “we need more out of him”. No. “we” need more out of everyone else.
SS has absolutely not been the problem this year. The problem has been 1B, LF, DH, RF (hopefully Marte solves this), and 2B (hopefully McLain returns to form).
Agree to disagree. His ceiling is much much higher and he has to reach it….help or no help. Pitch around me and I’ll steal 80 like Eric the Red. Didn’t they change the rules to make steals easier? If he runs like he did then he can be atleast a 20% better offensive player. Now they hits for a higher average and his K/BB ratio improves
EDLC’s sprint speed and range are down by significant margins this season. I noticed this trend in late April, and it hasn’t changed. It seems he’s been dealing with a lower-body injury all season. So, I don’t think we’ve seen the best version of EDLC this season, and yet he’s still darn good. I’m not sure he’s capable, at least this season, of doing everything you are expecting. He’s in a bit of a slump right now, but what the Reds need is a better supporting cast.
@ Indy, Elly has been in a bit of a recent downtrend but everyone does that . Harper was 2-22 entering last night, Castellanos 0-14. Small slumps happen but yes here is your NL shortstop OPS rankings. ( Elly was in the .830’s a week or 2 ago.
Perdomo .822
De La Cruz .813
Abrams .780
Turner .766
Lindor .735
Swanson .715
Adames .713
Winn .706
Betts .682
Brewers don’t have 1 player with an OPS over .800. Neither do the Cards or Pirates or Giants. Padres 1 Phillies have 2, Mets have 2 . Reds have 2 if you count Marte’s only187 PA. Dodgers have 3, Cubs have 4.
Ketel Marte is the only NL 2b over .800.
What happened in mlb between 2023 and now? 2-1 sucks imo. Or somebody gets 4 in the 2nd inning and the game is over…might as well take off.
Idk what they do? Are ratings the same? No shift….well no shading either. All 8 fielders have a starting point….circle on the field that they can’t leave until contact is made. Idk? It just sucks to see a Red hit a smash up the middle and an infielder is there. It was a hit for 35 years of my life
Per BBRef, Issac Collins of the Brewers has an .853 OPS through 321 PAs.
Of the 9 Brewers position players and DH, BBRef has listed as regulars (Collins in LF being one of them), there is only one guy with an OPS+110 despite five of their OPS being <.800
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2025.shtml
The above was meant to read:
There is only one (Brewers) guy with an OPS+ LESS THAN 110 despite five of their OPS being <.800
Prerequisite for playing 1st or 3rd in MLB is you gotta hit. Same with left field. If you have a good glove, better yet, but YOU GOTTA HIT. 1B is busy, but easy. 3B often gets 1 or 2 chances a game, sometimes 0 chances. But they bat all night. What a senseless trade. Steer’s bat is not good enough for a 1st baseman. He probably truly is a 2nd baseman. Friedl is an okay CF, but his bat would play better in left. Tyler S. Is VERY replaceable. Our FO doesn’t try to build a team, they just piece one together each year. I can’t get over the trade for Hayes. I believe there is not one decent MLB team that would play him at 3rd.
Well if Elly, McLain, and Stewart were something like .875, .800, .825 then they could carry Hayes .650 ops. Marte, Friedl, Andujar, and misc in the OF. Maybe Hines or Rodriguez, etc. Speaking of which….Bats face Chris Sale tonight so lets see how Stewart, Hines, Rodriguez look.
Stephenson .722? Not great, but Realmuto is at .718. Catching is hard. He’s only hit into 3 dp’s which is way way down. He hit 16 in 2023. Going the other way alot helps with dp prevention.
I will say I believe in Andujar. Idk about 500+ at-bats as a regular, but maybe 350?
He’s drawn 4 walks already which nobody expected and he can actually run a little bit too. He might be a late bloomer? Baseball is weird…all confidence pretty much, but I think 18-20 HR power is in there somewhere. I’d def sign him soon
Also in TS’s case…constant Ks cut down on doubleplays as well. 97 Ks in 245 at-bats is insane. He’s better then that
That’s what I was saying up above. You can carry Hayes and his glove if your 1B and LF is hitting homers. Marte in Right helps now but you can’t have Hays with 10 Homers. Steer at first will hit 20 but his bat has been inconsistent all year. I thought he was coming out of it with a strong June. Over .300 I believe but his other months have been bad. Hitting 25 bombs and .250 average at first with GG defense would be great if he can do that. Left field is horrible and Mac has not had a good year at first. You can’t get out homered at home which they have.
Mac at 2nd.
As for TS , the Dodger announcers were saying that Tyler changed his swing in the off season and he was going for more of an uppercut to drive the ball more. He knew there would be more Ks but was willing to make that sacrifice. Well he isn’t driving the ball more and his k’s have gone off the charts. He needs to go back to who he was. Driving the ball to right.
That is interesting on Stephenson, yes it sounds like he should go back to his previous hitting style. He’s been an above average hitting catcher for most of his career I’d say.
He always seemed like a pretty smart hitter with some power in the past, but this year, he doesn’t seem to be hitting smartly or with much power! Could be coming back from the injury too has changed him. It’ll be interesting to see what he can do in 2026 if fully healthy whether on the Reds or another team.
My takeaway from watching Stephenson this year is that he has become a sellout guess hitter most of the time. The guy looks at pitch after pitch that is clearly a strike.
Either he isn’t seeing the pitches, which seems doubtful given that he is a catcher; or, he is looking for something different than he is being thrown and is unable to adjust on the fly.
To varying degrees, most hitters guess at, or “sit on” pitches and locations from time to time. However, at 2 strikes, they need to be able to adjust on the fly to spoil pitchers’ pitches.
I’m just baffled that Stephenson’s K rate is as high as it is, 34.6%, just a tad less than 11% above his career K rate before this year.
I think EDC may be a little hampered by the hamstring as was mentioned. I would definitely not trade him. I think maybe batting him 2nd in the order may be a better fit. And possibly a position change in the future. But he’s close to being a superstar I agree with others. Just hasn’t been very good hitting for awhile now. I do think the lack of consistent good hitting in front and behind him in the lineup hurts.
There’s just a lot of holes often in the lineup. Many nights this year you could say they are getting below average performance at 4-5, even 6 positions or so offensively. Just so inconsistent.
Still a chance if they hang around, De La Cruz gets hot, Marte gets hot, Hays maybe regains some of his hitting ability. Still a chance but the overall results seem to point to the inconsistent offense being what to expect the rest of the year.
Elly has played in almost every game. I think he is tired (not worn out), and could benefit from a couple of days off. Being a little tired can affect a player’s bat speed, and maybe gets him into some bad hitting habits.
I was thinking the same yesterday. It’s nice to try to play every game but man it’s been a hot summer and it’s got to get to you. I think he needs a day off as well just to reenergize.
the cost for Schwarber in the offseason will not be as bad as it seems on the face of things. you would not just be paying for one player. it’s like considering a pickup for the job. do you need an S-10 or a Ford 150? another middle of the road bat isn’t going to do it. you are paying for protection for Elly which will lead to better pitches for Elly to see and better production. teams would have to change the way they pitch to that lineup. one-two punch of Elly/Scwarber would be feared. would make Mclain see better pitches because of what is batting behind him. Freidl, McLain, Elly, Schwarber Marte then fill in the lineup with the best you got coming out of spring training and if it’s Stewert and Rodriguez so be it. meanwhile let’s get one back tonite! it ain’t over til it’s over.
Hey, I’ve been away, have Buffalo Daddy Warbucks Bob and Phat Phil fired Fanncona yet?
I noticed the Phillies are essentially platooning at three lineup spots if last night and tonight are normative. They have the second best record in MLB as of this morning. Several here have criticized the Reds for platooning over the last few years. Perhaps a better question is how the Phillies have achieved success with this strategy, and what adjustments the Reds need to make when they do platoon?
I believe Red’s platoons have faltered due to several factors: the weak side of the platoon is ill-suited for the role (e.g., struggles against left-handed hitters), one of the platoon partners is poor defensively (at least at the position they are asked to platoon at), and too often both players have extreme splits that require multiple in-game adjustments to avoid unfavorable matchups.
Andujar has been a much better fit as a platoon partner and has even earned more playing time with his hot bat, but he’s limited to DH due to his defensive shortcomings.
Hays/Fraley (LF), and Lux/Andujar (DH) or Lux/McLain (2B) might be better matchups moving forward. Andujar and Hays are good enough against RHP that neither is a bad matchup against RHP. Each of these pairings also work defensively.
Hackman Hays playing again … dude should be on bench almost permanently ….. refuse to bring up Rodrigues or Stewart cause they are afraid to start major league clock …
gutless as usual
On the other hand, Hays has a 1,051 OPS against LHPs–Suarez, the Phillies starter, is an LHP. The front office promoted Burns into the rotation, starting his service time clock, knowing he would hit an innings limit later in the season. Stewart and H-Rod are both 21, and both just eclipsed 80 AAA at-bats.
BK, I think I would have to say, unless Sal Stewart and Hector Rodriguez were “legitimate” super stars in the making (ala EDLC), then they do need several hundred more AAA AB’s before they get promoted (and start the Arb clock….tick, tick , tick).
I think they could both turn out to be very good players, but let them get some more AB’s at AAA first. I mean Rodriguez is batting .341, with his limited AB’s. But will it translate into hitting in ML?
Hunter comes back tomorrow, and I would assume Benschotter gets sent down to make room.
At the Sept 1 “expansion”, I would only bring up guys already on the 40 man. Neither Steward or Rodriguez are on the 40 right now.
Rece Hinds and Connor Phillips.
I agree, David.
Won’t see anybody from the minors unless injuries occur.Hayes and Hays block Stewart and H Rod anyway.Will be watching Marte and Andujar to see how they do.May be interesting to see how our 7 8 9 hitters do or not.
Not sure why people are surprised by Elly’s lack of power. It appears as though the Reds FO does not want home run hitters in the lineup. They prioritize hitting the ball down and want to string together singles to score runs. It’s very likely he is doing exactly what the coaches are telling him to do.