He’s been called a puppet of this dime store ownership, a product of an insular regime, ineffectual at best; clueless at worst. If you talk, write or simply offer up opinions online, you need a hook, a horse to whip to the finish line. That horse was once first and foremost David Bell. It’s now predictably shifted almost entirely to the Reds’ President of Baseball Operations, although manager Terry Francona is surely looking over his shoulder for what some have deemed insufficient postgame answers.
Many cannot—or will not—attempt to separate Krall from ownership, as if he too prefers doing more with less. And maybe he does. Maybe he’s in lockstep with his bosses and believes that draft and development alone is a viable path to success and competitive payrolls are nice to haves but not a necessity. But just as I cannot imagine Scottie Scheffler willingly playing the US Open with half the clubs in his bag, I find it hard to believe the head of the front office wouldn’t have liked to have had $60M to sign Pete Alonso for the next 2 years.
Instead, Krall is expected to pull rabbits out a very cheap hat made of felt, falling apart at the seems, as in, “seems he could have gotten more in that trade,” “seems he could have found someone better than an ordinary Joe,” “seems he could have offered Luis Castillo enough money and years to stay.”
The big, bold black mark on Krall’s ledger has arguably been the free agent signing of Jeimer Candelario. It’s difficult to know if his poor play since signing with the Reds has been that at age 30, he was beginning the downside of what has been an average career, or whether the injuries have been the primary cause of his demise.
In Brian Kenny’s 2016 book, Ahead of the Curve, he took a look at all the $100M contracts—free agent and contract extensions that kept a player home—and discovered that fully half were bad deals, the definition of “bad” being the front office likely wouldn’t do them over again if they possessed Dr. Emmett Brown’s time-traveling DeLorean.
Kenny came up with a methodology for identifying bad big free agent contracts and detailed five red flags, one of which was signing a player on the wrong side of 30. While the Candelario contract was nowhere in the dollar vicinity of Kenny’s analysis, the over-30 red flag stands, so it’s fair to hang the result around Krall’s neck if one is so inclined.
Nevertheless, looking back at the free agent choices available at the time, particularly in the outfield where the Reds desperately needed help, one sees a limited set of options. A 30-year old Lourdes Gurriel Jr. had a similarly productive year at the plate as Candelario, but it’s unclear how much more it would have taken to woo him away from a Diamondback clubhouse he was already very happy in after being acquired from the Blue Jays the previous off-season. Cody Bellinger’s asking price was way too high for the Castellini regime and Teoscar Hernández turned down a couple of multi-year offers to sign a one-year deal with the Dodgers because, well… Dodgers. Leftovers on the market included a 32-year old Joc Pederson, another go-round with Tommy Pham, a 36-year old David Peralta, Hunter Renfroe, and Jurickson Profar, a 31-year old coming off a 0.6 WAR season.
Critics of Krall point to organizations with smaller payrolls who have managed to produce better outcomes season after season, citing the Rays (of course), Cleveland, and closer to home, the Brewers. Follow Milwaukee fan talk on social media and you’ll hear the following:
“The sustainability of Brewers since they broke the playoff drought in ‘08 is because they never bottom out. They don’t sell the farm to go “all in” or overpay free agents. We can debate about whether that approach will win a title but we can’t debate that it doesn’t bring constant success/relevancy to the franchise. They will always be competitive because they can develop arms and take their time to debut players.”
Gosh. Isn’t this what Krall has been continually mocked for attempting to do?
Nick Krall said we were going to avoid peaks and valleys.
He has gotten his wish. #Reds pic.twitter.com/lZLBFRL7Ji
— Chatterbox Sports (@CBoxSports) June 4, 2025
https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js
“Here’s the issue. When you climb Mt. Everest and you stop halfway through, you didn’t really climb Mt. Everest. You didn’t get to the top. You didn’t get to experience the joy, the thrill of why you’re there in the first place.”
The “avoiding the peaks and valleys” comment has deliberately been misinterpreted for the sole purpose of bludgeoning the remaining target now that The Manager That Shall Not Be Named has been relieved of his duties and the new savior has yet to lose his luster (although cracks in the Tito Fan Club are certainly showing). All this appeals to the vox populi, the frustrated folks across a fan base that want blood and don’t really care who has to give it.
If Krall were moved to elaborate, he might explain what—if we’re being honest—we already know: the “peaks” refer to the “all in” moves that inevitably result in the “valleys,” otherwise known as “rebuilds.” For that reason it’s meant that valuable prospects like Chase Burns, Rhett Lowder, and perhaps even Sal Stewart and Alfredo Duno are probably off limits, as they will be the future foundation to buttress the existing core from 2023 for an organization that is finally free of Joey Votto’s long contract and the learned lessons from the fiascos that were Mike Moustakas and Shogo Akiyama, as well as the jilting by Nick Castellanos, all in search of that elusive “peak.”
The Mount Everest analogy above would have been better served had it acknowledged that to reach the summit, one needs a solid physical foundation that comes with patient moves from base camp to the next camp and onward, one that recognizes that inevitably, supplemental oxygen is needed to get climbers to the summit.
And therein lies the problem. This ownership has little to no intention of providing that supplemental help when the time arrives. They won’t climb into the thin air of free agency and are unlikely to allow their GM to trade the quality prospects necessary to get a young core over the top for fear of finding themselves back in the valley, embarking on yet another rebuild.
So while Krall is trying to build a base camp of talent, while he was praised by prospect analysts throughout the game for the return on the trades he made, he’s been beset with injuries to CES, Marte, McLain, and Steer to go along with a good but unspectacular season so far from De La Cruz.
In February, Keith Law wrote the following for The Athletic:
“The Reds remain one of the best drafting teams in baseball, and their 2022-23 drafts alone seem likely to produce eight-to-10 big leaguers, while the 2024 draft at least started off with two potential impact players. They’ve had a little less success on the international side, as some of their bigger signings have struggled to develop, especially without an intermediate level between the complex league and Low A. It’s an above-average system and seems well set up to help the Reds contend again in the near future.”
Draft experts Jonathan Mayo, Jim Callis and Sam Dykstra opined the following in March:
“After the two first-round picks from the past two Drafts (Chase Burns and Rhett Lowder), who could both be in Cincy’s rotation this year, there’s a lot of offensive firepower here — eight of the next nine prospects in the Top 30 after Burns and Lowder are hitters. The Reds continue to do a nice job of refilling the system via the Draft (six of their Top 10), via trades (two) and via the international market (two).”
Brewer followers frequently reference the organization’s “pitching lab.” The Reds appear to have done something similar, whether they have a catchy name for it or not, and it’s beginning to pay off.
“For the last several years, the Milwaukee Brewers pitching staff has been one of the best in baseball. Whether it be the rotation or the bullpen, Milwaukee has kept opponents in check and gotten by with whatever offense it could gather. This formula has won the Brewers a lot of games … As a small-market team, the Brewers have limited financial resources compared to the bigger-market clubs, relying on prospects and reclamation projects to get the job done.”
Sounds very familiar to me. It appears he’s built a starting pitching foundation through draft and development. Krall brought in his own reclamation projects—Gavin Lux (.289/.382/.394 wRC+ 117), Austin Hays (.303/.346/.555 wRC+ 139) and solid backup catcher Jose Trevino (294/.325/.487 wRC+ 118), who has been an offensive revelation whose most important contribution will be keeping Tyler Stephenson fresh and hopefully healthy.
The front office has been lambasted for not going for it at the 2023 trading deadline, but as Charlie Goldsmith reported on his Substack, Krall attempted the India for Singer trade back then to shore up a wounded pitching staff that had Greene an Lodolo on the IL heading into August.
I continually read the same tired phases, such as “Krall is afraid to pull the trigger on a trade” and “Krall needs to work the phones.” The problem with “working the phones” is that there has to be somebody on the other end of the line. The first 3 months of a baseball season have historically never been a trade fest and that trend has only gotten worse with the addition of playoff teams, meaning the overwhelming number of front office head honchos are very reluctant to begin shuffling the deck if they are anywhere within hailing distance of .500, lest they anger their fan bases. Ironically, that didn’t stop the Brewers from trading Josh Hader at the 2022 trade deadline on the day they held a 3-game lead in the NL Central, only to miss the playoffs some 8 weeks later.
As for “pulling the trigger,” as I recently and accidentally found out from a reliable source, the ask for Luis Robert, Jr. was Matt McLain and Noelvi Marte; and the Sox were adamant and not in a bargaining mood. Would you have made that move? Can you imagine what anger would be blowing Nick Krall’s way had he pulled the trigger and in return gotten Robert, Jr.’s current .177 BA and 65 wRC+ production with his impending free agency on the horizon?
If you remain unconvinced of the competence of Krall’s work, if you remain an eager participant in the #GetKralled brigade, you must ask yourself this: Who do you replace him with? Because Theo Epstein isn’t walking thru the doors of 100 Joe Nuxhall Way. Krall wouldn’t be replaced by a front office master of the universe and handed a substantially larger payroll. Didn’t we learn anything from the hiring of Terry Francona, followed by the consensus view that Tito wouldn’t have taken the job without a commitment to demonstrably improve payroll?
Fans are continually sold a bill of goods they willingly consume. If only we had a hall of fame manager we’d be ten games better and playoff bound instead of a fool who keeps taking the starting pitcher out too early. If only our clueless front office had signed Luis Castillo or at least received players in return who were impervious to injury. If only we quit listening to those darn nerds and went back to a day when men were men and RBIs were the true measure of a ballplayer’s worth. For all the time I’ve been writing about the Reds, the losing has always laid at the foot of whoever is in the dugout, with the guy in the office above not far behind. The late Walt Jocketty was excoriated on a weekly basis. Dick Williams was labeled little more than a nepo baby. Now, it’s Nick Krall’s turn in the barrel. Nothing changes. The only constant has been ownership.
Funny how that works.
The social media environment today makes it tough to find fair and honest critique. Everyone with a mic and access to the internet doesn’t want to talk about ownership. That’s old news. It doesn’t drive the narrative. The people responsible for this mess largely stay away from scrutiny, preferring a quiet corner table at Jeff Ruby’s, away from the scrum. Fresh content is the order of the day. New outrages to chew on are grist for the mill. Every day there is a new lineup to question, with new manager’s postgame remarks to over-analyze, another minor player signing to ridicule, all in search of those coveted clicks and retweets, all done with the comfort of knowing that whatever silly thing said today will all be forgotten tomorrow as the rage machine marches on to the next indignity.
I mean, who knows what tomorrow will bring.
Good article Richard. I don’t always agree with everything you say, but the bit about Robert is right on. The constant drumbeat of people wanting to make a trade for the guy was loud and long, and wrong.
Bob Howsam tried to trade Lee May for Sam McDowell in 1970. CLE finally said No.
Whew.
As I have been saying companies/teams don’t fail because of the players, they fail because someone at the top hired them. The people I am referring to are the hitting and pitching coaches. Coaches responsibilities are to fix the issues and ours have failed miserably, again.
Coaches can’t make chicken salad out of chicken s***.
Exactly, Doc. The view that the problem is–pick one– coaches, manager–accepts implicitly that all players have roughly the same potential and could be stars if only they received the–pick one–proper coaching, accountability, conditioning, place in the batting order.
I also get a kick how fast people want to spend other people’s money in the tens of millions of dollars. They are quick to shout “The owner should spend $20 million” for that player and the owners are cheap because they don’t spend $30 million for an outfielder. People with big money just roll their eyes when the people with little money, comparatively speaking, tell them they’re stupid for not spending more of their money!
Huh?
Fantastic article. For this club to ne any good this year I stated that it needed a good year from CES TS and Marte. To date that has not happened. Add the McClain MIA case fille and you have to actually pat Krall the pitching staff and Tito on the back. The Reds are lucky not to be 10 games below.
The Reds have a +36 run differential which is better than half the teams currently in playoff position. Maybe “lucky to not be 10 games below,” should actually be “they’re unlucky to not be 10 games over.”
That run differential might need a little nuance: My impression–I haven’t checked–is that the Reds this year have been noteworthy for having lopsided wins followed by multi-game scoring droughts.
That the ownership is cheap is a given. The fans come out in droves, and the organization is making money hand over fist. Castellini is happy. That he and the ownership group aren’t concerned with winning is self-evident. As I’ve said repeatedly if one isn’t getting the resources necessary to succeed in one’s position, quit. Krall is still there, thus no integrity. As for Francona, those selling him short for this season’s performance lack an understanding of what it takes to change the culture and performance of an organization. Sure, injuries are a factor. But they would have been with Bell also. The difference is that Tito doesn’t do the same thing day after day and expecting it to work out. And no objective analyst expected the Reds to wind up better than third place this season. And they likely won’t unless the stars magically align. Then everyone can jump on the bandwagon and laud Krall’s brilliance. Patience and better execution by the front office are what is needed at this point. As for trading McLain and Marte for Robert? Yes, an absurd move. Let the Sox keep him. But then so is signing cast offs like Hampson and Joe.
How many retreads have been brought in here during the tenure of the Krall regime?
The organization has done nothing to sign one legitimate clean up hitter during Krall. It’s a shame that all this pretty good pitching becomes wasted. I’m sick of witnessing a line up who has such a hard time scoring runs consistently.
And bringing Miley back is just another move which exemplifies going through the motions.
I’m totally with you viz questioning Krall as a decision maker, but I find the “No Integrity” critique to be an idealistic sham.
“As I’ve said repeatedly if one isn’t getting the resources necessary to succeed in one’s position, quit…..”
Okay, if you’re working in a Midwest manufacturing operation and can move on over to another one during your career in mid-level management, maybe one can demonstrate some “integrity”.
There are 30 MLB teams, Krall has one of the prime GM jobs in sports.
You have some expectation that he’s going to quit that job to meet your idealistic view of what integrity means?
And then do what? Voice complaints on a discussion board? Go to another MLB team and say “I quit the Reds because the owners were cheapskates. So Mr. / Ms. Owner, you should hire me.”
Get serious.
Of all the positive contributions you make to the discussions here the “Quit to demonstrate your integrity!” is the most nonsensically idealistic.
Otherwise, carry on.
You’ve done this before, LDS. It’s just ridiculous. Nick Krall has one of only 30 of the most coveted jobs in baseball, but he won’t quit, so he has no integrity? You’ll stoop to anything to insult him, no matter how silly.
Frankly, the way you make excuses for Francona for exactly the same issues you said made Bell incompetent is a real laugher. And if things do get better, it will just be bandwagon fans jumping on the Krall shuttle, right?
You’ve got all the bases covered. This is still very unserious stuff.
The error you are each making is to assume that Krall should be a GM. That’s no more true than saying I should be starting for the Pacers at center despite being 5’10” and 70. Frequently, people wind up in jobs for which they are unqualified. And it’s not excuses for Francona. It’s recognizing that he’s had a total of 63 games to turn the team around. Bell had 5 years. Francona’s teams have won nearly 2000 games. Bell about 400. I didn’t expect them to make the playoffs this year. As for being unserious? Hardly.
LDS — whoever is in that role is going to fail your “integrity” test, automatically. If any GM (Krall or whoever replaces him) bucks the owner’s wishes he will very quickly find himself out of work, and somebody else will have that job. That new GM can then either do what the owners tell him to do, or he can be fired (or quit) and be replaced by somebody else. The names might change, but in the end you’ll still have a GM trying to make do with an uncompetitive budget, and no number of principled exits is going to change that. Having a GM with “integrity” (as you define it) apparently requires having an owner willing to provide the resources needed, which is not the owner they have. Laying that at Krall’s feet is just foolish.
With respect, LDS, it might be at least slightly less far-fetched to envision Krall as a GM than to envision you as an NBA center.
Absolutely, but several of the comments overstated the significance of the Krall having one of the thirty GM positions. Wanting or having a particular position does not mean that you’re qualified for the job or that you’re entitled to keep it. Such thinking promotes mediocrity. And yes, far too many organizations do in fact put people in positions for which they aren’t qualified, based on relationships with those above them – typically cultivated through obsequiousness, making both the promoter and the person promoted unqualified.
Bell was here for over 6 years, Francona’s been here for 3 months. Stop taking and making things personel, Nick Krall has failed at his job. The organization is in a bad spot with no depth, even after trading everything of value in 2022. They have not won. They have not made the post season. This article reads like a grievance to Krall’s critics and its not necessary. We are all allowed to have our own opinions Richard and yours isnt any more valuable than mine or anyone elses.
The goal of the owner is always to make money. I’m not sure they are so bad for having that goal. They probably don’t have as much money as the Yankees and Dodgers owners, do they? Does that make them cheap?
We seem to be at opposite ends of the optimist/pessimist spectrum, but I’ll join the others in saying that integrity has nothing to do with this. Nor does quitting.
Ownership is ownership, and the rest are employees. Until ownership asks you to do something illegal, or outrageously demeaning, integrity and honor don’t matter. Dealing with the existing budget doesn’t involve any of that.
Now, could he quit out of frustration? Sure. Would it change anything? No. Is he better or worse than any other GM? Who knows – how do you measure that?
I think Tito is a better manager than Bell, and didn’t think Bell was “bad”, but never got the extreme critics of Bell – managers generally don’t make much difference, and outside the clubhouse it’s difficult to see their effect. Even more difficult with FO staff.
It may not happen, but I’m still expecting D Williams to return in a managing partner role, and make a difference. He made noticeable changes when he was GM (with essentially an owner’s aspect) and think he’s the only foreseeable change to matter.
The ownership is pitiful, the fans don’t deserve what they have been sold in the past 35 years.
As I said in a previous thread, Krall actually made all the right moves. He put together a young core that produced in AAA and looked like they could become young superstars at the MLB level.
It’s actually stunning how NONE of them have consistently produced at the MLB level.
McLain and Benson had their 2023 seasons, and haven’t been able to replicate them. Steer also falls into this category, but to a lesser extent.
Marte goes through fits and starts, although he actually looked good this year before his injury.
CES is a mystery. It’s always some injury or another that’s holding him back. When will we see the real CES? If ever?
Then there’s EDLC, who is supposed to be one of the best players in the game. He did put up 5.2 WAR last season, which is good. But when you look at players like Juan Soto and Fernando Tatis Jr., they were putting up 6+ and 7+ WAR seasons when they were EDLC’s age. I think EDLC is an exceptional player and he has a skillset which lets him do things no other player in the game can do. But somehow, it’s not translating to “elite” statistical player. He’s good. He’s very good. But he’s not elite. In fact, based on WAR this year, EDLC is only the 11th best SS in MLB. That is well short of what was expected of him.
As I said in another thread, how can you build around a “young core” when there really is no “young core”? At least, not a “young core” that is producing at a high level? It’s actually stunning that not a single offensive prospect have lived up to their hype.
I don’t blame Krall for this. He made the right moves. It’s baffling why it hasn’t worked out.
There’s nothing stunning about this. The first wave of prospects all got hurt at the same time. You can’t produce when you’re not on the field.
This is a weak cheap shot at ELDC. In your effort to diminish him, you got all your facts wrong. Soto at 23 had a WAR of 3.7. Yeah, at 25, he had an 8.1 WAR with NY and EDLC hasn’t matched that yet. What a crime.
The highest WAR Tatis ever had according to Fangraphs is 6.8 in 2021. It’s done nothing but go down since then. Last year, his WAR was 3.2.
Last year, ELDC was one of the top 10 players in the game (6.4).
If he’s well short of what you expected of him, you might want to change you expections.
Fernando Tatis Jr. had a 6.6 WAR in his age 23 season.
Juan Soto had a 5.6 WAR in his age 23 season, after putting up 7.0 WAR in his age 21 season.
You can spin it however you like, both players outperformed Elly when they were the age he is now. If Elly wants to be seen as one of the best players in the game, he better start producing like it. Being 11th in WAR this season ain’t it.
Further, yes, all the prospects got hurt at the same time. But 2023 was two years ago. I know McLain missed all of last year, but what is Steer’s excuse? What’s CES’s excuse? What’s Marte’s excuse? What’s Benson’s excuse? Even when “healthy”, they did not produce.
And what’s the excuse for this year?
Blaming injuries only gets you so far. Either you produce, or you don’t.
As I said, absolutely stunning none of them have worked out.
Good grief. How does one refute people living in an alternate universe?
If I remember correctly, Tatis was suspended by MLB for the 2022 season when he was 23.
And EDLC’s WAR last year was 6.4, not 5.2.
You can label it spin if you want. It doesn’t change facts.
You’re hell bent on taking down the kid’s accomplishments. Good luck with that.
Richard , here is the fault with your analysis. For all the praise for the Reds farm system, look at the record of said farm system. Only team above low A over 500 is the Lookouts. Two games over 500. The rest are at least 5 games under. Outfield strength in the system is a joke. One outfielder H Rod appears to be major league ready. Stewart while a good hitter is a below average defender. Collier has yet to prove his draft status. The pitching selections have been good, but pitching alone will not carry teams. As far as other small markets, Cleveland has been pretty consistent as far as winning, Detroit is now the best team in baseball. Do you see the Reds reaching that status in the next couple of years? I know it not all on Krall, but since 2001the Reds have the 24th fewest wins in all of baseball. Not exactly built for success.
The won/lost record of farm teams may be indicative of something, but I’m far from certain that we should read too much in to it. Is the job of MiLB managers to win games or is it to develop players for the parent team? Possibly both, but the duty to develop players could conceivably not always be in harmony with winning games.
My brother had a wrestling doll when he was a kid: Stretch Armstrong. You could bend him any way you wanted, contort him to fit any shape you desired.
That’s pretty much your argument here.
Me?
@greenmtred. No the original comment above you.
Krall isn’t the issue, it’s ownership. You can’t continually tear down teams and expect no consequences. Rebuilds sell off proven players for potential players.
You lose the winning culture that you had and replace it with years of losing and sorting through prospects.
I’m not saying don’t trade players, you should trim the roster as it grows long in certain areas so other areas can also thrive.
Today we should trade a bit of SP to gain offensive help.
First, I agree with the above article. But I feel as if I have read a different article.
As I see it, the point of everything that Richard says is that while it is absolutely true that the Reds ownership group is “cheap,” that other “cheap” owners (such as the Brewers) have figured out how to compete without paying exorbitant prices for over-the-hill FA’s or giving up their best prospects for short term rental players. It is obvious that the Reds have not figured that out yet.
Even though the scouting gurus like Keith Law and others claim that the Reds have talent in their farm system, the question remains as to why the Reds never seem to translate that minor league talent into major league talent. Of course, the majority of prospects in every organization flame out long before sniffing the major leagues. But with the Reds, the talent just doesn’t seem to match the scouting hype, or the player development process falls short.
You look at Elly, and it seems like his limited success has come solely from his own talent, rather than any organizational development. You wonder just how good he could be if he had better coaching.
Or even winning in the minors leagues. Our minor league affiliates are losers, too, for Pete’s (yes that Pete) sakes.
Just darn bad luck. Dogonit. That’s it.
I don’t think so.
No one seems to respect Krall. He was nepo hire who is on above his head trying to earn his stripes on our watch. And let’s not forget that we had a chance to sign Yelich, too. Not to mention Adames and Contreras, etc etc. In their primes. It’s not all Krall. Yes our sports med staff seems to fall short. Our development group seemingly falls short. And our ownership obviously falls short. So, like I’ve seed before, if this ownership needs some magic to happen to be successful, then hire a real magician and Krall is not that. Not even close. (Psst… the better ones cost more)
No one respects Krall? Not the prospect writers who’ve almost universally praised his work in trades and draft? Who is this “no one?” Got anything to back that up or is this just the usual vague opinion based on agenda or some guy on YouTube?
Krall’s from PA. He got his first job in the New York Penn league and then was hired by the A’s. Nothing nepo about this.
Do your homework, doggonnit.
Doggonit, my apologies. I got his story confused with his “predecessor’s”. He was promoted internally after ownership decided to just hand him the responsibilities of said predecessor. So, it’s about as close to nepo as you can get without it being so technically.
And, yes, it seems like we got ourselves the Rodney Dangerfield of Directors. No respect in the industry. Writers don’t count. They’re writers for a reason.
Expound on the credentials please. Krall worked in the baseball operations dept in Oakland for 2 whole years. Thats the extent of his MLB experience before coming here. He worked in the “moneyball” era in Oakland in his mid 20s. Its unclear what his exact role was for Oakland. He was an advance scout for the Reds, who did he discover?
He has received praise for trades and drafting? By whom and when? What trades and how have they worked out? Has he received praise after giving those trades a couple years to truly evaluate? Besides the first round who has he drafted thats had MLB success? Abbott and who?
Listen, Im all ears to learn more but ive done my own research and I dont see it. You can speak in generalities but Id like to know specifically what he has done well in Cincinnati. Farm system is middle of the pack after a rebuild.
Justin, below is the link to the many in baseball who praised the Reds for the Castillo trade from John Morosi, Mark Feinsand, Ken Rosenthal, Travis Sawchick and Jon Heyman.
https://sports.yahoo.com/did-reds-luis-castillo-trade-033439328.html
The guys at CBS Sports gave the Reds an A.
And no, the farm system is not middle of the pack. MLB Pipeline has them ranked 11th and Jonathan Mayo said “The Reds continue to do a nice job of refilling the system via the Draft (six of their Top 10), via trades (two) and via the international market (two).”
I don’t know where you’ve done your research, but I can tell you I’ve done mine it’s reflected in everything I write. I never speak in generalities.
Klugo: Did ownership give Krall enough money to sign Yelich, Adames and Contreras? Their being available is one thing. Being able to offer them the money they’re looking for is quite another.
The Reds will not be a contender until we have new ownership who cares about putting an elite team on the field. Current ownership is making lots of money with a near .500 team because of all of the revenue benefits the MLB structure provides. It is not like the old days when attendance paid the bills. These owners don’t care and they have told Cincinnati that. This is a AAA ball club and will continue to be.
Your last sentence was brilliant. I’m sure I’m not the only fan to skip over the gripes from the constant rage machine posters and blog writers over the minor player signings and other silly daily gripes. That seems to be all they do and it’s a downer. I look for good analysis, ideas, and thoughts to read. Keep in mind the 15 or 20 constant and daily rage opinions are greatly outnumbered by those just enjoying the game and pulling for the Reds instead of bashing them and their players and coaches ad nauseum. We understand with 30 teams only one makes it to be the champion and not every player can be Pete Rose or Johnny Bench. We are practical, realistic, and optimistic.
I get it about finding a trade partner and I get it about wanting to develop your own players from within and I get it about the money or lack of money.What I hoped for and still do hope for is a healthy Reds team the second half of the year.I want to see CES,MM,ELLY and MARTE around the infield.HAYS FRIEDL and BENSON around the outfield and Ty Steve behind the plate with a bench of Steer Trevino Hinds Espy and Lux.Those guys will produce if healthy.The starters are good enough and the pen is good enough barring any injuries.I am sure I am not alone in thinking this is what we all envisioned at the start of the year with maybe a player or two different on the roster.This roster will win cause it has power and speed and can catch the ball and lets just see what happens.I believe Friedl is the oldest starter at 30 and goodness he has been the Reds best player.The age of the bench doesn’t matter cause they all bring something the team needs.Let go play ball.
Krall’s biggest problem is that the rebuild trades have so far been a disaster. Gray, Castillo, Mahle, Suarez and Winker have produced @35 WAR since they were traded and the players returned have produced 5 WAR for the Reds. Getting almost nothing in return for those five has crippled this team.
Yes very good article. Thanks! Your details expound something I have been championing on this chat site for a very long time. Krall may have his flaws, last time I checked he was human. I saw very few posters or media pundits saying that Canderario would be a bust only that his position he plays was an odd choice for the team at the time. This last offseason I thought he did a fine job of bringing in talent with what he had to spend. As far as our farm system goes he brought up most of our blue chip players in one year as I recall. It takes a farm system a while to recover. So for me the three main problems for the Reds has been, is and will continue to be 1. Ownership 2. Really bad luck with injuries. 3. Staying the long term course of ways of competing like the Rays model. Krall is not in my list.
Until any of those things change I am afraid this team is doomed to mediocrity or worse. Here’s hoping that the Reds trade Elly when he has max value and here’s hoping that the new CBA will bring a bit of equilibrium to a system that is clearing in need of some equilibrium.
Yeah, I think the Brewers are doing it better because they’ve been doing it longer and are further along with acquisition and development moves that have provided them with depth the Reds simply don’t have. Which is why all these injuries happening at the same time is so devastating to the offense.
Part of the problem is that ownership has never stuck to a plan. From the outside, it looks at least like they are going to stick with this one, meaning Krall will take more abuse for not trading the future for now.
All of this could be helped by ownership spending more money to further this along, but that seems out of the question. And IMO, draft and development can only take you so far.
Mostly agree, but Hays isn’t bad luck. Thats a pattern. He’ll be 30 next month and he’s had 2 seasons with 500+ at-bats.
I like your article. I for one was totally against the Roberts trade. I didn’t see what everybody else was seeing. The Reds are drafting well and some do well at the ML level and some don’t. Doug has pointed out numerous times that high draft picks are a crap shoot and that most don’t pan out. If you are going to trade potential good ML players then you do it for good ML players that aren’t rentals. I get it that everybody wants a championship before they die or whatever the flavor is for the day but I would rather win and make the playoffs every year than fight for last . You can’t win it if you’re not in it. The Reds are never in it. I would rather be the Brewers than the Marlins. The Marlins win a championship then tear it down and are flat out terrible for years. Yuck. No one knows what’s going on behind close doors in the front office so we can only speculate and that will drive a person crazy. I get frustrated at times and most everyone else does as well. Losing is for losers and you should never get comfortable with it. People here are tired of it. Patience is the word of the day but that word has been here to long. Competitive is what I’m looking for and I think everybody else. Give me hope in August and September. Give me a reason to watch every game those 2 months instead of Football or yard work. I’m tired of hearing the media talk about the Dodgers,Yanks,Cards,Mets , Brewers ,Cubs etc. We all want our team to be the flavor of the day. The talk of the town. I’m probably the only person here in NY wearing a Reds cap. I would love to see that change.
There’s at least one other person up there wearing a Reds cap–my son.
I don’t see many Reds hats around Tampa either lol. In fact, it feels to me like there are more Yankees and Red Sox fans than Rays and Reds COMBINED!
Great article Richard. I agree with about 90% of what you wrote, and the rest is just me nitpicking. Also agree with you about LDS. The “no integrity” shtick is something else.
So the conclusion is that Krall has done well his job or at worst has not been, at all, an incompetent GM. He is just an employee who follows orders given by the ownership in order to earn his good salary. The Reds losing forever is a matter for the owners actually…
Krall completely wasted 109 million dollars with just Moose and Candelario,plus plenty of other bad contracts,
To say he’s blameless is beyond ridiculous
With all the trades the Reds have the worst outfield in mlb
There are a couple young guys in the minors who are playing well but most are not
But yeah Krall is great
Great article, enjoyed the read, and also the spot on rebuttals in the comment section.
My issue with Krall is some of his head scratching roster decisions. Last year he brought up Marte even though he wasn’t hitting in AAA. This year he kept Steer who clearly was not ready, and he recently brought up non performing Miley.
Good article. Its not black/white here. Krall looked like a genius in 2023 when all the young guns were tearing it up! Candy was a huge mistake, but there was absolutely nobody there to spend $ on imo. He wasn’t even a need coming into last season.
Bottom line is the Reds have mostly stunk it up…again. Maybe they make a run to .500, but I don’t see it? Krall has to pay for that. You can’t fire all the players and he’s been there a while now.
As for Elly. His hitting right-handed hasn’t improved. There is a hole there the size of the Grand Canyon. I think if he switches to lefty full-time then you’ll see more production. Also bat him leadoff so he can run more. Friedl is on too much for him to run…lol
I agree that the Reds base issue is the ownership. How many things can change until it changes is open to question.
Krall seems to be an accomplished technician who lacks an effective sense of proactive future vision. This may well be why he has risen to the position of PoBO for this ownership group.
Krall and the owners appear to deserve each other. Long suffering fans deserve better from both.
“Long suffering fans deserve better from both.”
I concur. Krall may have terrible owners to work for but it’s his choice to work for them. He has to accept responsibility for the losing just like them. He’s had more than enough opportunities. Like him or not it’s time to bring in an outsider with a fresh outlook in my view.
Melvin: Does Krall have opportunities if ownership doesn’t allot him enough money to bid on and sign top-flight players?
It seems like the Reds usually have the 20th-25th highest salary and the 20th-25th best record so I’d say he is mediocre but is also handcuffed with basically no wiggle room.
Well written, Richard.
I was admittedly not a Bell fan, but I also knew Tito wasn’t automatically worth “a bunch of games” just because of his previous track record. The cards he’s dealt are still very similar.
Krall is an easy scapegoat. Your point about Theo Epstein NOT looking for the job is well made. And I’m sure people would point to Billy Beane and Oakland, but that’s not an automatic match either.
Bottom line for me is a complacent ownership group who loves to cry “small market” but doesn’t seem to measure up. I have no idea what a new ownership (like Mark Cuban?) would do, but if they bought the Reds, I figure they are looking to do something different.
Thank you, Mark. You know, David Letterman is a big Reds fan. I hear he has some money.
But does he wear a Reds hat?
Here’s an alternate view of the proposed swap of McLain/Marte for Luis Robert Jr.
All organizations tend to overvalue their own assets. I can see a person with no affiliation to either the Reds or White Sox viewing such a swap as a trade of elevated risks for each other. McLain was coming off major shoulder surgery. Marte was trying to bounce back from a drug suspension and had looked bad in this attempt in 2024. Meanwhile, Robert Jr’s career had been up and down, dotted with reduced effectiveness and time totally due to injury.
Robert Jr presumably would have been joining a Reds order composed of Friedl (as a corner OF), EDLC, himself, and someone else in the top four. That group might not be Ohtani, Freeman, and Betts, but neither should it have projected too far down the list from them.
We cannot project how Robert Jr would have performed surrounded by this level of talent or how his level of talent might have positively impacted the talent around him.
Let’s just suppose Robert Jr was performing in the Reds lineup at the level of his career offense, a 111 OPS+, McLain was performing as he has with the Reds this year, and Marte was out with a mid to long term injury. What would White Sox fans be saying and thinking about the trade???
Or better yet, let’s presume all 3 guys were performing as they actually have in 2025. Dispassionate observers would be noting that the trade of risks was still a trade of elevated risks with no gain to either side yet.
Insight.
Okay, Jim. But, what you left out is the fact that Robert, Jr. is near free agency. The Reds have McLain and Marte for the foreseeable future. That’s huge.
You just said above Krall lacks “future vision,” a statement I find curiously inaccurate and somewhat incredulous for a fan base that is tired of waiting on prospects to produce. A trade like that would seem quite the contradiction on your part.
Future vision was a reference that Krall did not seem to have any plan for how all the talented pieces he was acquiring were hopefully going to fit together, and consequently he doesn’t maintain a dynamic list from top to bottom of who he is willing to part with for help in a here and now time frame for immediate help at the MLB level.
All appearances are that he locks in on one of two potential deals, then folds if they don’t come together.
As to player control, Robert Jr is potentially under team control via contract options through the 2027 season. Thus, the Reds would have had him for up to 3 seasons.
McLain will likely be arbitration-eligible for 2027 and free agent eligible ahead of 2030 (per Baseball Reference). Are the Reds likely to keep McLain through that term anyway, at arbitration determined cost? Perhaps if he returns to his pre-injury form, which as of now is still unknown.
Among MCLain, EDLC, guys like CES, Marte, and some pitchers, the Reds are going to have a lot of rapid fire decisions to make in that time frame. It is likely good to very good players will be moved for cost saving.
Finally, if Robert Jr had come to the Reds and during the 3 years he was under their control, they made the playoffs, no one would have given a second thought to the player control term cost given up for him. Krall declined to take the risk. Good, bad, or indifferent, he should be judged by that decision.
Krall should indeed be judged by not making such a lopsided trade for an expensive, often injured player that will end up being under control for just one year (a rental), then having his club option declined. What a disaster that would have been.
Judged very favorably for passing on that.
Jim, just be grateful you are allowed to respond.
Its a results based business and the results have been bad. You know who hasnt been hurt? Luis Castillo. He has been a bulldog for the Mariners.
Bad ownership hired unqualified GM, who hired and fired a bad manager. Its top to bottom incompetence. Though its not all Krall’s fault, he has done more bad than good since he has been in charge. Candelario deal was terrible then and catastrophic now. Because ownership is bad that doesnt mean Nick Krall’s moves have been good.
They have not developed position players, plain and simple. The trades he has made have not worked out for whatever reason. Regardless, do we keep making excuses for him? Injuries happen to everyone. Those injuries are his problem now, he built this team. He has shown the ability to trade established talent for prospects. The prospects haven’t worked out thus far. When do we hold him accountable like every other GM is held accountable?
PS, you cannot fire the owners.
Well, Justin, I’ve got news for you. Father and son Castellini weren’t about to pay Luis Castillo $100M/5 years for a team they were tearing down. Why would pay him $20M a year to pitch for a team you’re selling off?
Nick Krall has done plenty good with very limited resources. Just because you refuse to acknowledge the facts I’ve laid out doesn’t make them any less true.
I freely admit the Candelario acquisition hasn’t worked out and might be a mistake Krall is guilty of, but it’s far from catastrophic. 3 year contracts at $45M. That’s pure hyperbole. Yet you wanted the Reds to waste big money and years for Castillo so he could pitch with a stripped down roster? Seriously? Now, that would have been catastrophic.
And stop with the injuries happen to everyone nonsense. Context is important even if it’s inconvenient for you. Starting pitching is developing nicely and I believe McLain and De La Cruz will be anchors. We’ll see about Marte and CES when they are back and healthy.
The fact that you can’t fire an owner is a dumb reason to fire the people underneath them simply because owner’s incompetence and poverty claims keeps them from working at their best.
C’mon Justin.
But owners can fire the GM and manager. That was often the case when I was a young fan and Powell Crosley was the longtime Reds owner. It made for excitement and kept the fanbase interested.
Well, then. Providing fans with some excitement is a great–great–reason for making scapegoats of guys and firing them to cover other peoples failures.
Well then, greenmtred, that’s your great, great opinion regarding excitement, not mine. My comment was only meant as a side effect of change in GM or manager. Good for you in your attempted put down.
Didn’t mean it as a put down, TR, though on rereading it I can see that you could reasonably take it that way. I’ve always objected to the Fire the Manager school of thought when a team is playing poorly because my belief is that the players are overwhelmingly the reason for wins and losses. To the degree that baseball can provide a hot-button issue for me, that is one. Rereading your original comment, I can see that you were, as you say, reflecting on people’s reactions, not endorsing them. So I take responsibility for this kerfuffle.
Finally an intelligent set of comments bolstered with facts – thx Richard! On this site the constant mantra has been “build like the Rays”. When you do that, you sink or swim with developing players. You don’t get to “play GM” and sign/trade at will. You stay disciplined. And when players get injured or make poor life choices, the development appears to have failed. Give Francona & Krall time together. We will have an NL Central contender in Cincy for the next 5 years!
Great post, Richard.
It boggles the mind what some people say. Krall’s job is to do his best to make the Reds a better team. He has done that. He doesn’t have the money to sign free agents, his options are to draft well (has been universally acclaimed) and make good trades (hit-or-miss, but no GM wins them all).
The question must be asked = could a different GM do any better with the Reds’ payroll constraints? I think it’s plainly obvious that the answer is highly unlikely. Krall has done a fine job.
Another outstanding read! Thanks for the effort you put into your writing and for your willingness to strap on your flak jacket once they are published!
That’s very funny. Thanks, BK.
I dislike articles that seem like they are telling understandably angry fans to “calm down”
“Who would you replace Krall with” sounds suspiciously like “Where ya gonna go?”
Krall might be trying his best, but satisfactory results aren’t happening. Spending money on folks like Mike Ford and Garrett Hampson is not defensible.
The Reds didn’t need pitching at deadline in 2023, they needed hitting. At the end Krall did little to nothing to aid the team and it was costly. Winning teams get deals done to improve their club.
Results matter. So far the results have been poor. Fans deserve better than a GM who has not delivered.
Winning teams get deals done because, in large part, ownership is willing to spend the money it takes. If Krall had the money to spend but sat on his hands, the case against him would be clear. As it is, the case is not clear at all.
I strive to write clearly and with intent. It’s always disappointing when people get my intentions wrong, especially if it’s done deliberately by not reading what I actually wrote or distorting it.
You’re clearly in the Fire Krall club, so my question to you via the piece is who is going to do a better job when they can’t spend difference-making money. Too many fans insist there are front offices out there that have magic 8 balls that allow them to get talent that won’t get hurt or mind-control skills that will convince this ownership to spend money.
I did research. I laid out who was available in free agency when he signed Candelario. Was Krall supposed to know in advance Profar was going to have the season of his career? He didn’t deliver in bringing in Lux, Hays or Trevino? You’re watching a different team than I am. He’s gotten big results on a shoestring budget. He’s overseen one of the best starting pitching staffs in baseball, which is the only reason they are still near .500.
You insist the Reds didn’t need pitching at the 2023 deadline, but that’s simply not true. As was reported:
“At the time, Luke Weaver, Ben Lively and a banged up Graham Ashcraft were in the Reds’ rotation. With Hunter Greene and Nick Lodolo on the IL, the Reds’ biggest priority at that deadline was adding a starting pitcher…”
Winning teams don’t just get deals done, they get deals done that can be winning deals, not deals where they get fleeced out of desperation.
You’re right, results matter. So does process. Firing the wrong people is bad process that leads to bad results.
Gotta tell you… I thought that was a terrific article and I’m enjoying the back-and-forth between the audience and the author. I watch the Reds every day on MLB. When they lose, it ruins my day. A day like yesterday was almost like the baseball equivalent of BlueChew.
This team is young. I’m likin’ the plan and what I view as progress. I see better defense and fundamentals. There is plenty of room for improvement but these things take time. I do wonder why we choose the Brewers as our template and not the Cardinals. The Cardinals are of similar market size but seem to always reload. I’d like someone who really studies these things to draw parallels with the Reds. The difference I see is that their younger players come up already indoctrinated with the “Cardinal Way”. And if they don’t perform on the big stage accordingly, they’re jettisoned. The Reds don’t seem to have that common cultural thread through the organization and minors. Perhaps today’s younger Reds know, based on the Brewers-type, Krall-proposed format, that Cincinnati is not the final destination. If they’re good, they’ll be moved on… so why buy in? Case in point… EDLC who we know will be leaving in a few years.
There are few Reds fans who are more loyal than I am. There are also few who have show more patience. Now 72, I’d like to see one more great team before I move into the cornfield with Moonlight Graham and Ray Liotta.
Thank you once again Richard for a great read. It’s always refreshing to read your well thought out articles. I’m sure you can’t hear it from where you are, but you got a standing ovation for this one.