After the Cincinnati Reds ended the 8-game winning streak of the Brewers on Tuesday night, Milwaukee came back on Wednesday afternoon and was able to get things back on track. They took the lead in the 3rd inning and they just kept on adding to their lead and never trailed as they picked up a 9-1 win that also gave them a series victory.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Milwaukee Brewers (34-29) | 9 | 13 | 0 |
| Cincinnati Reds (30-33) | 1 | 4 | 1 |
| W: Priester (3-2) L: Abbott (5-1) | |||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
Andrew Abbott had a perfect game with two outs in the top of the 3rd inning, but Milwaukee put together three straight hits to grab a 1-0 lead. In the bottom of the inning the Reds would load the bases with one out but couldn’t capitalize on the opportunity and stranded everyone.
In the top of the 5th inning the Brewers extended their lead to 3-0 when Jackson Chourio hit a 2-run home run. Cincinnati would get one of those runs back in the bottom of the 5th when Jose Trevino picked up his second double of the day and scored later in the inning on a ground out to make it 3-1.
The score didn’t stay there for long as Daz Cameron followed a leadoff walk in the 6th inning with his first home run of the year to make it 5-1. Two innings later saw Wade Miley take over for the Reds and he would give up a run in the 8th and then three more in the 9th as Milwaukee grabbed a 9-1 lead. Cincinnati couldn’t rally in the bottom of the 9th as the Brewers held on for the win.
Key Moment of the Game
Daz Cameron’s home run in the 6th that made it 5-1.
Notes Worth Noting
The Reds had just four hits on the day as their offense continues to be hit or miss – literally.
Three of those hits belonged to Jose Trevino. The other hit came off of the bat of Will Benson.
Wade Miley gave up six hits in his two innings pitched. It was his first big league game in nearly 14 months.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Arizona Diamondbacks vs Cincinnati Reds
Friday, June 6th, 7:10pm ET
TBA vs Nick Lodolo (4-4, 3.10 ERA)
“Reds offense sputters again,”
Just sputtering along. 🙂
Gonna get worse. If it weren’t for TJ’s catch last night it would have been another sweep. Couldn’t even build a little on his heroics. These pretenders have nothing. No offensive talent, everyone’s injured, something tells me we’ve seen this before.
Agree. But only for 30 of the last 35 years. So there’s that.
This team will test your patience in so many ways.
Trevino was the lone offensive bright spot. Thats it. Thankfully and narrowly they avoided a 10th shutout. Why McLain isn’t in AAA trying to fix his swing is beyond me. I believe the talent is there but his at bats are just pitiful. Marte and CES can’t get here fast enough. CES being the one that should already be here.
Abbott with the rare subpar outing. It happens. Miley looked absolutely atrocious.
Agree Jason, maybe Mclain will be sent down when one of injured players return?
The talent is not there.
The Rockies have three times the number of June wins this year as the Reds do.
Tell you what Ladies & Gents, it’s hard to be a Reds fan these days! Been following them since 1961 and this has to be one of the all time worst teams in regards to offense! On the flip side, the starting pitching has been good and with any kind of run production by the so-called “hitters’, this team would NOT be 3 games below .500!
Absolutely wasting solid pitching. It’s tough to watch.
With this inability to get runners in scoring position across the plate, I’ll keep track of the game, off and on, with gameday. Didn’t expect this with the change in manager.
Joe Nuxhall would bat 5th on this team.
Truly one of the most boring teams in the league to watch. Experts though at the workmanlike weak infield ground out. Anyone know, have they had a Read-the-Riot-Act team meeting yet? Who would call it, they’re all such flat personalities.
Thank goodness they had Miley to keep them close. At least as Francona said he was a breath of fresh air.
I think that fresh air you were kidding about is more the last wheeze of a pitching career. But….I am sure he will get “another chance” with the Reds.
I am sure this was a Front Office decision. And I think Francona ran him out there just to show how little he has left.
About the only way that Francona can protest the dumb things that our Top Men do.
Not sure how long Elly will be gone but not looking forward to trying to win without him.
As soon as I saw they resigned Miley and he was on the 26 man I knew it was not a game to waste my time following. DB was oft criticized for playing the veterans and not giving the new guys adequate opportunities. It looks a lot the same to me.
At what point is Hunter Greene labeled injury prone?
I think the groin pull that he had initially is just a tough injury to overcome without a lot of “rest”. He was on IL for a while, and came back, but probably still in some pain.
Well, it’s either the players or the hitting coach that doesn’t seem to know how to fix this problem
Chris Valaika should be looked at extremely hard. Regression across the board.
I just watched some post-game comments by Tito and others….nobody mad, everyone ho-hum, just another loss….no sense that anything is going bad and the season going down the toilet on June 4th…..just another day in the life of the Reds…..been there, done that
Can we all admit something now?
The Reds absolutely got it right with their starting pitching. They have drafted, traded for, and developed a stellar young pitching staff, with more on the way. They should absolutely be lauded for this.
However, as good as the pitching is, they have utterly failed when it comes to young hitters. The young core of the future was supposed to be EDLC, McLain, Steer, CES, Marte, and possibly Benson.
Elly has been great, but you also get a sense he’s still not living up to his massive ceiling. He’s not a hitter that exactly strikes fear into opposing pitchers, although he IS a terror on the basepaths.
But besides Elly, what do the Reds have? McLain has been in a horrendous slump for the whole season and doesn’t seem to be getting better. CES shows flashes, but can’t stay healthy. Steer is also not healthy, although he’s been hitting a little better of late. Marte looked like he was finally living up to his potential, then he got hurt. And Benson? He’s still an enigma.
Remember how excited we were for these young hitters to come to the Reds after tearing things up in the minors? What went wrong? How could EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM under perform? You would think just by chance, the Reds would hit on a young hitter who actually lived up to their potential.
I guess there’s still a chance for the young hitters to come around this year, but early returns have not been encouraging. Meanwhile, the season is slipping away to the extent that the Reds might be out of it before the end of June.
The other dirty secret is, this “young core” is actually not THAT young any more. CES and McLain are both 25, but McLain will be 26 in 2 months. Benson will be 27 in 10 days. Steer is already 27. Only Elly and Marte could still be classified as “young”, with both of them being 23.
How much more time do we give this “young” hitting core? Because the pitching is good enough to win with even an average offense. It seems like such a horrible waste.
Meanwhile, the Cubs won the WS, played a few more years with the core, tore things down, and are already back at the top. The Cardinals and Brewers win consistently year in and year out.
Geez, I wish I was 25 again.
The failure is at the front office. The rebuild is sputtering because they failed to make the moves to bring in support for these young players. Look at the moves the Astros did when their rebuild was finally approaching its potential. That is how you finish the rebuild.
The Cubs are doing it now…trade for Tucker, signed Swanson, signed Suzuki, signed Taillon, trade for Busch, etc. They have brought in the support for the likes of Steele, Hoerner, PCA, Shaw, McGuire, etc.. As well as signing Happ to a larger contract.
In my opinion, this is due to the Castellini’s cheaping out and/or Krall not being able to pull the trigger on trades. The young core needs support to complete the rebuild.
That was the point I made in another thread: How can you build around a “young core” when that “young core” itself is not performing?
You can bring in all the hitters you want, but that doesn’t hide the fact that CES, McLain, Steer, Benson, and Marte have simply not consistently produced up to this point.
How can you build around that?
So which free agents and which trades do you think the Reds missed out on? That’s the common complaint here, so lets hear some specifics.
Soto was the biggest signing out there and he has less fWAR this year than Friedl. Or how abut Adames and his .1 fWAR? I always hear people praising Castellanos for ripping the FO yet they fail to mention his whopping 1.1 WAR in the 3.5 years since leaving the Reds. You make it sound like signing a high priced FA would have solved all of the Reds problems when it would have just added to them.
The Reds main problem is that their core isn’t all that good. Only Friedl and EDLC and maybe Stephenson are average or better. The jury is still out on Marte and McLlain Until we figure out the core there is no sense in wasting money on a free agent just to pacify some fans.
@citizen54
Yes, well said, and that was my point.
People criticize the front office for not building around the core, but the fact is, there IS no core to build around.
@CIJ3
It just boggles my mind how the same people who were complaining about the Moustakas or Candelario signings are now griping that the FO didn’t make any major signings this year.
Also, good point about the starting pitching. The Reds starters are #3 in fWAR so far. Too bad everything else is pretty bad.
I appreciate your posts CI3J. In fact, you are one of my favorites on here.
That being said, I have to respectfully disagree. There is a good core, in my opinion, and I still consider them to be fairly young overall. Greene, EDLC, Stephenson, Friedl, Lodolo, Abbott, McLain, CES, Marte, Steer, Williamson, Ashcraft, etc. is still a good core to build around in my opinion. Plus a few others knocking on the door with Lowder, Petty, Burns, Stewart, Collier, Hinds(?), Rodriguez, Arroyo, etc.
This last off-season is where they needed to go out and get a big bat, a closer, and a top three rotation piece; whether through trade or free agency. Singer, Lux, Hays, and Trevino are nice moves, but just don’t move the needle enough…and don’t get me started on last year’s wasted free agency and the prize of Candelario.
The core is lacking the support…kind of like raising a barn…you gotta have the supports holding up the walls until they are all secured and holding up one another. Without the support of some proven quality veterans this core is swaying and wobbling in the wind.
@DW
If the core position players you named were producing, the team would be within striking distance for the division. But they are not, and that is the problem. It is not the supplemental players acquired. They have produced.
Steer has now close to 1500 at bats and Benson is next with 760 McLain has 550 at bats and then Marte with 460 or so CES with 395 and throw in Hinds at a whopping 65.Outside of Steer I don’t think the Reds even know what they have and won’t until you put them in the lineup and find out and that’s been my problem forever.Not doing so gets you Joe and Hampson and Lux and Espy playing at the big league level with no power playing in a band box.I get it Benson is now up and playing and McLain is playing but what about CES and Hinds.It is a waste of good pitching but its also a waste not to give some of these guys a legit chance.Now I get it what is a legit chance and all have different opinions but for me until they get 1000 to 1200 at bats in the big leagues you just don’t know.Benson and Hinds both have proven they can carry a team for a week or so.CES has awesome power and Marte may be the best hitter of them all and we saw McLain in 2023.I just hope they all get or stay healthy and come July we see them all playing every day.Got to find out
This offensive rut the Reds are in is the result of the front office unwillingness to trade prospects for proven veteran offense. A change is needed to take advantage of outstanding pitching.
I don’t think that the financial limitations imposed by ownership can be disregarded. It may be that Krall is incompetent or too cautious, but it may also be that he knows it’s pointless to try to land a top-tier player because the Reds won’t pay for that.
greenmtred:
I have been preaching that ownerships lack of funds was, is and will be the main reason for why the Reds have mediocre or bad teams year after year. Constant injuries to key players is second. Reds have bad luck with that and when our starters go down we have a weak minor leagues and no money to have decent depth players. As far as making a trade at or before the deadline I just saw this article today.
https://blogredmachine.com/reds-can-should-offer-red-sox-better-package-than-padres-for-jarren-duran
RedsFan: I’m continuously puzzled by ownership. Do they keep the team because they think owning it confers some sort of status? Di they think that somehow, in spite of their best efforts, the Reds will somehow become a championship caliber team under their stewardship? Do they make more money than they could by investing in some other enterprise?
Tell me this team didn’t just give up, with a straight face. What an embarrassment.
Putting in Miley was definitely waving the white flag.
Miley cannot get single A hitters out. Who in their right mind thought he should pitch against MLB hitters? He’s actually lucky he “only” gave up 4 runs. Could have easily given up double that.
If they were serious about winning, they would have brought up Burns by now instead of Miley.
The Moeller baseball team can really hit. Maybe we can have them bat when it’s the Reds turn to bat. Moeller probably would do better than the Reds at hitting against any MLB team.
Talk about a Wednesday afternoon STINK. FISH. POT!!!!!
I need the off day tomorrow.
Sure glad they signed Miley. Makes the Hampson acquisition look great, which made Connor Joe look good. I guess that’s Krall’s new strategy
In other news that I just read, Cam Collier is back with the Dragons, although as the blurb sez, this is not expected to be a long stay, as he was supposed to start the year with the AA Chattanooga Lookouts.
It was mentioned earlier that all the Reds young hitters from a couple years ago have regressed or injured or both….throw in J. India….after his ROY 2021….he regressed
every year….then he was shipped away
He is not hitting for power, but he is doing fairly well with the Royals other than that.
signing Miley? Really? so Reds-like.
I don’t know what you were hoping for. I think Miley was one of the better options. Petty? 0 for 2. Lowder? Injured again. Spier? Injured until July. The sad part is that at least 2 of those guys have to be prime trade bait as to get some hitters in here. Unfortunately it is a mess but it is Krall’s mess as he is one who loaded up on this offense ……Steer,McLain, CES, Fraley, Candy, Marte ….and all are having rough years Been this way for weeks and for whatever reason, he has not chosen to fix it via trades. I am not a GM but I can see something needs to be done. How long are you going to ride this crippled horse? No way to expect these guys to be any better next year. Trade whoever you have to trade to get some bats in here. I think that needs to include Burns and Greene. Or else, you are going to have another 500 season with nothing to look forward to next year. The 2025 acquisitions ….Hays, Lux, Trevino, Martinez, and Singer …..are not the problem. They have all been additive. Just not anywhere near enough if you are expecting to win the Division. The roster is flawed. Miley is the best you have got at this point. Choices have to get a heck of a lot better.
For a team that’s down to Miley on the depth chart, how can you advocate for trading Greene or Burns?
I just threw up in my mouth. You can’t tell me there was nobody out there that wasn’t better than Miley. He couldn’t even get guys out in AAA. How is he going to do that in the majors!!!
Horrible effort and lack of accountability and leadership. Miley is beyond done. Tommie John at age 39? Pitchers in high school throw harder 86 mph no longer works. Can’t believe they wasted money on him
The Reds’ 30-33 record is the same through 63 games as last year — and. at the time, the 2024 Reds were in the midst of a 7-game winning streak.
No reason to believe the ’25 Reds will finish any better than the 77-85 of last year Sorry to say, but 90+ losses is entirely possible, especially with this woeful offense.
Too bad Tito’s Hall-of-Fame credentials will be soiled from having taken this job.
More bobbleheads please! Please, more bobbleheads! They’re all we’ve got to live for!
There are not a lot of positives right now. The SP depth in the organization looked to be a strength at one point. Now we are left with Wade Miley and bringing up a guy that was pitching in college at this time last year. For the most part almost all of the offensive talent regressed this year. The only hitting talent in the minors appears to be in AA and I am not aware of a lot of AA players skipping AAA and being successful. If you look at the non rookie Reds minor league teams above Arizona and the Dominican teams very few player stats are looking good besides maybe 6 or 8 players. There is not immediate help in the picture.
They need to rethink the idea of starting Miley on Monday. He has no business being in the majors.
It does look kind of piecemeal and unplanned doesn’t it. And we see no reason to be adding bats? Who is in charge?
Before today’s rancid outing, he’d pitched all of 7 innings since 2023. He’s 38. What makes the Reds, or anyone, believe he should be starting a major league baseball game?
The AAA Bats lineup for Wednesday night has been posted.
CES has moved up from the #3 slot to the #2 slot. Could this portend where the Reds would like to use him if he ever *sarcasm on* gets his timing straightened out *sarcasm off* 😉
https://x.com/LouisvilleBats/status/1930364441708679370
Did you notice he’s playing 3B?
If Steer still cant throw – which is the definition of playing injured – then I would love to see CES at third base. This is the year to figure out what we have with him. Try him in left field too.
I would also like to see marte tried in a corner outfield spot. Need to figure out what he’s capable of too.
And when their agents complain- point to Sal Frelimo playing outfield and doing a very good job of it. Also the Brewers record. You play where you can get on the field.
The lead on the Reds page on the MLB app is a promo for all star voting. Ha——HA——HA. “VOTE NOW!! Help make Reds All Star Game Starters”. HA——HA——HA
Will be interesting to see how it goes this year. I think Elly’s a shoo-in at least as a reserve. Abbott or Lodolo could potentially be selected if they have a strong June. And Pagán is a possibility as well.
Abbott – yes.
Lodolo – no.
Pagan – maybe an injury replacement.
Friedl – yes
Elly – maybe
Off day tomorrow. Would be the perfect time for Phil to come to the office and fire Krall. We can only dream…
I dream it would be the other way around.
Me too, Scott!
RedlegScott:
1 trillion % !
Jim you and I can both holler till the cows come home and CES and HInds will not be called up short of walking on water.Has to be a power struggle going on in the board room cause nobody would carry a 3rd catcher and not play them,add Joe and Hampson to go along with Espy and Lux all with no power and play them while never looking at bringing up a minor league guy that could play even a little.If the minors are that bare why hasn’t somebody been fired.I think its as simple as somebody signed these jokers just like Miley was and told Tito you will play them and pitch them cause that’s what I am telling you to do.
It’s embarrassing to even say those names, knowing they make up one-third of the non-pitching roster.
Third string C with .400 BA, 0.442 OBP, .700 SLG, and 1.142 OPS = 202 OPS+ this year.
Has started one game in the past month and batted a few more times. 3/7 with two 2B in that timeframe.
It’s time for someone to take the hit for this mess. Should have never signed Miley who couldn’t get out AAA hitters. See you NICK !!! Tito fault!!!! Start another rebuild. Even our younger players are terrible. You could make some trades but not one would take any of our players except Elly or Abbott. This could be the worse team we have had or I forgot we sucked the last several years.
Do we not have anyone the minors better than some of the stiffs we current are watching!!!!!
H.B.
“Do we not have anyone the minors better than some of the stiffs we current are watching”!!!!!
Not hitters at least in AAA that I can see. Marte and CES are still maybes and hope so’s. If we did they probably would be up by now. The only place we have any real depth is pitching. People keep screaming for a trade. Well IMO the only real thing we have to trade is pitching and if we want a hitter that can significantly move the needle, otherwise there is no point to making a trade, then we are going to have to trade someone like Burns or one of our starters. Sadly, very sadly this team seems to scream rebuild. That or get new ownership that has enough money to seriously compete and we need to hire a shaman to ward off all the injury evil spirts.
Flying out to Ohio in the morning the visit my boy.
I got Bally Club level tickets for Friday.
Hoping to avoid the rain storms which 50/50 for now.
Sorry we are going to miss Elly, but can’t wait to get a close up look at Hampson.
Does the team get to replace a player on bereavement?
Yes. If a guy goes on official bereavement leave, the team can replace him with any player on the 40 man roster who is not on the IL
“Sorry we are going to miss Elly, but can’t wait to get a close up look at Hampson.”
Cracking me up. 😀
The pitching is great but where would this team be without Friedl and Elly? They would be at least 20 out by now.
I don’t know if you can say the pitching is that great when they gave up 14 runs over the last three games to the Milwaukee Brewers, who frankly ain’t the 1927 Yankees.
The Reds best starter only pitched 5 innings last night, gave up two runs, and now is on the disabled list. The second best pitcher was on the mound today and gave up 5 runs.
And this weekend they will be facing the Arizona Diamondbacks, who are a pretty good hitting team. What’s the over and under on how many runs the Diamondbacks will score this weekend?
A lot.
You can’t be serious. Of those 14 runs the Brewers scored, 4 of them were thanks to the should-be-retired Wade Miley, who got lit up in his 2 innings.
That leaves 10 runs across the other 25 innings, which is pretty good. That’s a 3.60 ERA, and includes Abbott’s worst start of the year. The pitching held the Brewers to 3 and 2 runs in the first two games, which should have both been wins, if our offense wasn’t in the deep freeze Monday.
Good idea. Maybe way up close — like, close enough to see his nose hairs — you can see why a guy with 0 RBIs and a .494 OPS is in a major league lineup. While you’re at it, get a good look at a few other players too.
Someone above mentioned that it’s time to have a clubhouse meeting, but they didn’t know who would lead the meeting. I don’t either. I went to a number of spring games where I sat directly behind the dugout in order to interact with the players and coaches. Besides Benson, Elly and some of the youngsters, none of the other players gave me, or anyone else in the stands, the time of day. The worst of all of them was McLain. That dude wouldn’t even look at us, let alone tip his cap, even when he was getting compliments from the fans. I thought then, “This dude just might have a little attitude problem.” And here he is. Is it lack of skill, poor attitude, karma, or all of the above for MM? I don’t get these guys. How many of the rest of them are like that? I could be totally off-base with this post, but I have to wonder.
That’s kind of disappointing to here. I thought I heard that players were a little more approachable/ interactive in Spring Training. I’ve never been before but would like to someday.
That’s what I was hoping for as well. The stars didn’t even stick around to sign balls for the kids.
I am pulling the plug on this season. How can you expect to win with guys like Hampson, Joe, Espinal, Fraley and signing Wade Miley. I thought last nights win might help turn things around, they come out and lose 9 to 1 while collecting 4 hits, 3 by Trevino and 1 by Benson. What a joke.
Lots of folks wondering what is the Reds plan on June 4. It’s pretty clear. Cubs are on pace to win 92 games and run away with the division. Cards 84, Brewers 83, Dodger 97, Mets and Phillies 92 and Padres 87 and Giants 85 and Dbacks and Braves 84
REDS ARENT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS AND ARE ALREADY TANKING
They just aren’t telling anyone.
They understand the math and the FO is now in how do we make budget for 2025 and position for 2026. Greene on IL, Hays on IL, CES on IL, Marte on IL Candy on IL so how do you fill in with those guys on a sinking ship? Cheap guys like Hampson and Joe and Miley and Espinal at 3b everyday. Reds FO knows they dont have the juice to make a playoff run.
Reds know theyve already sold weekend and summer tickets for JUne and July but are preparing for the massive sell off to prepare for the 9,123 fans on Tuesday in September.
Martinez is valuable and trading him in late July will save $6-7 millions and net a good upper minors prospect
Pagan will save $2 million and net a decent low minors prospect
Singer is controlled next year and will make $10-12 million but will get a good prospect because he s a solid innings eater for 1.25 seasons
Rogers and Barlow will be salary dumps.
Candy will be DFA’d in the off-season and they will eat his $15 million and Fraley will be non-tendered.
Sorry guys, we are back to sorting and Wynns, Hampson, Joe, and Espinal are just placeholders until Hays,and Marte get healthy and CES and Hinds fixes their chase problem. IF they are 12 back by mid June so what…….in the eyes of the FO. They’ve given up on 2025 and are focused on 2026 and trade deadline purging and prospect capital
Austin Hays is the wildcard. He gets activated Sunday and if he plays well in June and July, Id find a way to bring him back in 2026/27
Reds are in tank mode now. You heard it here first.
I don’t know… Ya, the Reds aren’t catching the Cubs but the Wild Card is still a possibility. Also, the draft looks deep this year and there are no consensus standouts so not sure how much the Reds would gain from tanking. Interesting theory though.
I think giving them credit for being in tank mode is too optimistic an assessment of their capabilities. They may end up in tank mode; but, it will be due to sheer incompetence landing them there.
As for “sorting”, a healthy organization is always looking to grow by changing its personnel. The Reds shuffle bodies continuously but tend to end up back where they were before. Witness Benson, Friedl, and Fraley across the outfield today as a prime example. Friedl is only one of the three who would likely be a regular on a winning team. However, that would most likely be as a corner guy, not a CF.
Meanwhile, they depreciate valuable assets such as McLain and Steer by playing them hurt or not back to snuff from major injuries. They got nothing of note for Jose Barrero or Alex Diaz because their situations were mishandled.
And etc.
trading Diaz in May to unload his residual $3 million was the first step of many
Barrero is worse than a replacement level player. His lifetime wRC+ is 33. Diaz was good his first two years then meh and bad. He is walk rate is almost 8 BB/9 in both the majors and minors this year, albeit SSS. His velocity is down to 93.3 from 95.8. Are you really criticizing the FO for not being able to get anything value for the two guys?
They’ve been in tank mode since 2015
This is spot on Old School.
The Reds should at least consider making an offer to Austin Hays. If he balks then trade him, but he produces when he is healthy. If he produced and stayed healthy enough to get 500 at bats the Reds wouldn’t be able to afford him.
That’s a tough call. Or if Hays plays really well and the Reds are way out of it at the trade deadline, they could get a pretty good trade package for a team desperate to win a championship. And then maybe Hays weeks later gets injured again, or is just consistently injured for years, and the Reds got a lot of value for a player that is injury prone. I like Hays a lot when he plays obviously, and would rather them hold onto a good player like him, but his injury history makes it a little more complicated.
I question whether Hays would sign with the Reds. Why would anyone?
The Reds woes are due primarily to the fact that in 2023 they had young, promising players:
Steer 117 OPS+
Fraley 107 OPS+
Marte 118 OPS+
Friedl 117 OPS+
McLain 127 OPS+
Benson 128 OPS+
CES 112 OPS+
EDLC 87 OPS+
And in 2025, that list of contributors has been reduced to
Friedl 120 OPS+
EDLC 113 OPS+
Neither Benson or Marte qualify for this list due to small sample sizes
Certainly some of those on the 2023 list would be expected to flame out. But NOT ALL of them except Friedl and EDLC. If that doesn’t change, and soon, the Reds will be in rebuild city, again.
Folks here want to blame Krall, but the fact is Krall had a very good offseason last year collecting solid contributors Hays, Trevino, Lux, Martinez, Singer, Rogers, Barlow and Wynns.
But the team Krall was building was supposed to supplement the young regulars. He was never expected to replace them. And that is what is required, it seems.
So as old-school suggests, this year may be lost while trying to extract value from that former group of 8 that has been reduced to 2. And if it doesn’t work, it’s rebuild city again.
Benson has 800 at bats,Little Mac has less then 600 at bats,Marte 450 and CES has 395 and IMO that isn’t flaming out.All that is not enough at bats to see who they really are as major league players.Only Benson has over a full year of at bats.Steer based on 1500 at bats and Fraley because of his age maybe have flamed out but not these other guys.Benson is the oldest at 27.They just need to play and lets see cause every one of them have had issues with health except Benson.
I agree the script hasn’t been written in full yet. But so far, the results have been discouraging. Waiting for them to produce consistently wasn’t expected to cost another season, and it looks like it may well do that.
VA Reds Fan, fair question. I think you will agree that we need big time offensive help and nowhere near the caliber of anyone we have in the pipeline. The Cubs are formidable force and we need a major offensive piece …..something at the level of Kyle Tucker or better to make up 10 games in 4 months. I would say guys like Acuna or Trout meet this standard. Tucker cost the Cubs 3 of their top 10 prospects and the Reds folded because of the price according to Krall. So who is looking down to who now?
The point I was trying to make is that the Reds need bats and if we want to quibble on who to trade to get the bat(s) you need, then we are going to get sent home with another 3rd or 4th place finish for the umpteenth consecutive year. All during a period of walking away from trades of prospects for a stud. So in thinking about it, it is not the names of the prospects (or young MLB guys) you are trading, it is getting the bat you need to right this ship and catch the Cubs. There is not a single offensive prospect that is going to HELP this team get to 85-90 wins this year. Yeah, I have read Tito’s diatribe that we are just in a funk and will snap out of it. I think it is a little more desperate than that.
You mean if he plays well between June 14-25 and July 7-24.
MLB will be locked out in 2026. There is no incentive for Bob et al to invest any more significant money into the team.
I kind of wish the lockout was right now…..
Gameday confrims CES is playing 3B tonight too.
Thanks, Melvin. I missed that.
Probably an indication that Steer really can’t throw I’m guessing.
As if that wasn’t obvious (Steer can’t throw) just by watching him play. Tip for anybody who wants to read and consider it. Don’t listen to the commentary, watch the play.
I do turn on the closed captions because they are enough behind the play, I can see the play with my own eyes and form my own opinion, then compare it to the commentary.
Steer has also been play an excellent 1B, defensively. And “Steer” and “excellent” have never been used previously in a sentence describing his defense. So I think he has found his home, defensively.
DRS +5
OAA +2
FRV +1
Works for me if I can now see when healthy CES,Marte,Benson,Hays,Ty Steve,TJ,Elly Mac and I don’t care who the DH is.Start them and play them.Hinds can spell the outfield and Espy the infield and Trevino can back up Ty Steve.Throw in Lux and Steer and lets play.Rest can go and can’t happen soon enough.Get what you can for the guys old-school mentioned that may bring some value and move on.Only starter over 30 is TJ and he is the MVP this year.Lets see what the young guys can do.No more of Joe or Hampson and others brought in off the street.
But a lot of those guys “off the street” play for league minimum. 😉
Yeah, I tend to largely agree with Old School (and there’s no school like Old School).
And Chase Burns. He and Acuna should be moving up to AAA level (soon) and starting there, soon. And Sal Stewart, too. When they trade Martinez (and maybe Singer and Lodolo) someone will have to fill in the rotation….although the Front Office would like to make it Randy Wynn (who is actually a good guy, just not an ML pitcher).
The Reds are due for another false hot streak, where they will play reasonably, competitively well, for 10 days to 2 weeks. And hopes will be raised yet again.
But….this team, as it is today, does not have enough talent to compete with teams that are running out in front of the respective divisions. Maybe something will change, players will emerge (and how many times have we thought that would happen). Something. Lightning in a bottle.
Hays will be back soon (someone said Sunday), and hopefully CES will be promoted back up…once he gets his timing down (???). Hampson, Connor Joe…I mean really.
Guys, the problem is that the 1 year contract guys are the ones meeting or exceeding expectation. It is Krall’s young core that is sinking the ship. Guys like McLain, CES, Steer, Benson, Candy, Fraley, and to some degree Elly. Mostly guys he traded solid pitching for and banked on being core pieces in 2024/2025. I can’t accept that these are the guys we are going to build around in 2026 if this gig doesn’t workout this year. That is close to the definition of insanity.
You guys may be right in that Krall will end up trading our good one year contract guys for prospects. I will counter that with are those prospects going to be better than Hays and Lux in 2026? I doubt it. Sounds like rebuild to me. Sounds like somebody needs fired.
Acuna has pitched only 70 innings at AA, with 5.2 BB/9 IP, after 7.6 BB/9 IP in the AZ Fall League last year. So, if he’s gonna get to AAA this year, he’ll probably have to lower that quite a bit first. The Reds kept him at Hi-A for 100 innings, too. He could be on schedule for that if he improves his control.
I think old school is on to something.Would explain all the head scratching moves this team makes in regard to player moves.
CES with a good throw to 1B. He looks to have a gun.
And wasn’t that some PA leading up to the 2 run bomb CES just hit.
And now they are trying to decide if it was an HR or a double. Looks like they are going to score the lead runner and put CES on 2B with a double.
That’s what happens when a guy doesn’t quite have his timing down, I guess. 😉
CES has a very good arm. At hus previous size and agility, 3B in the majors was a stretch. I am interested in what he shows now.
If CES can play league average 3B, let him play. I don’t think he’ll be any worse than Marte there. And we know, or should know, that Espinal is a good utility guy, stress the word “utility”.
CES just cranked one to RC field. He got robbed of a double they called foul but it turned out good for him. lol
Nope now they’re calling that a double off the wall. They’re not sure what they’re doing (umpires).
Must be auditioning to be called up to ump in the majors.
It sure looked fair on my iPad too! 😉
And … bases loaded, two outs, he pops out to RF, chasing a pitch out of the zone.
And that is the problem he has to correct. Which he seems to be. Still.
That may be true but you have to admit there’s not too many on the current Reds roster who’s doing any better. lol None of them had a HR today. 🙂
No, I know. It’s grim.
@DaveCT>>> If it were easy, we’d all have played until we were 40 and be rich like Joey Votto et al. 😉 Later in the game, CES had a second double that came to earth just short of the track in right center, similar to the first. For the night, he went 2/6. Both hits were doubles. He had zero Ks.
Yes, a guy should always work to eliminate his weaknesses. However, I don’t think we should obsess on CES’s issues when he is putting up numbers and hitting for power like he is. If we were to apply a 20% “MLB surcharge” to his current AAA numbers, he would still have a .958 OPS. As one of my college profs decades ago used to say, “take care not to throw the baby out with the bath water”.
BTW, the Gameday pitch display shows the pitch he popped out to second base was a strike (2nd inning. 1 out, men on 1st and 2nd). The bases loaded flyout came in the 3rd with 2 outs. It was on an 0/2 pitch. The pitch is displayed as a borderline pitch, i.e. a tick off the hard strike zone but in the grayed out secondary zone. That’s hardly a chase on an 0/2 count.
https://www.mlb.com/gameday/781056/play/35
Jim, i saw it the aforementioned popup live, then checked on gameday. The pitch was a ball.
Also, see below in the article for comments with @Allthehype and myself regarding the second double, which was not hit to the wall but was a fairly lazy fly that fell between OF.
And, Jim. Obsessing? On baseball? Me? Talk to my family … and how did you know I was the kid in church on Sundays who read the boxscores before going so I could crunch numbers in my head instead of paying attention? Who squealed?
Seriously, it is being factual vs leading a cheering section. The issue with CES, who I have liked from moment one as a Red, is his chase rate. It is such that it prohibits him from being a successful ML ball player. And, in all likelihood, it will continue to limit him unless corrected.*
Some read a boxscore or player stats and pronounce a player ready for a promotion, which is fine. Just be honest, though. It is calling for someone to be promoted (in this case activated). It’s fun.
However, declaring a player ready when it might not be the case is another. It can actually be misleading, which is the point that I am pushing back upon: Don’t mislead people. Jim Day’s whole segment on how good CES was as a ‘good bad ball hitter’ is a glaring example. And I did not take pleasure in watching that whole thing go absolutely dead quiet when it proved to be almost farcical. It bummed me out, actually, because it had done a disservice to both fans and CES.
And, for the record, I have commented that CES looks like he is actively working on this issue — which you know, by the way, based on a recent conversation here. So, I am not rooting against CES! I am a fan. I just think that those who are much more influential than I should be suggesting fans be realistic.
*Vlad Guerrero may be the one and only ML player who was successful while chasing pitches at a higher rate.
“Vladimir Guerrero Sr.’s career chase rate was 41.5%, which was well above the league average of around 30%.”
CES homers on the 10th pitch of his first at bat tonight.Still working on his timing I guess.What an absolute joke of an organization to not bring him up.Yes it would be a tough decision as to who goes down but just put 4 or 5 names in a hat and draw one out.
Yeah. We couldn’t have used that the past two games. haha
Joe, McLain, Steer, and Benson can all be optioned.
Bring CES up to fill the spot created by EDLC’s bereavement leave, then put those 4 names in a hat and draw one or alternately DFA Hampson.
Don’t be surprised to see Hampson playing SS while EDLC is out instead of Espinal. Espinal at 3B and Hampson at SS. What a powerful left side of our infield. It’s what Krall has given Tito and all of us Reds fans.
Actually, the “homer” by CES ended up being scored as a ground rule double. But he’s only batting .345 at AAA ball, so his timing still has to improve. (???)
I think that was, obviously, an excuse to keep from making a roster move. Winning is secondary.
Yeah. Sometimes I think Tito says what Krall wants him to say. He probably hates it. That ball that CES hit which was eventually ruled a double would have been WAY out in GABP.
Some of the decisions made regarding the Reds roster just don’t make ant sense at all.I would love to think these guys known better then me cause well I don’t know anything about running a pro sports team.Just hard for me to watch Marte and Benson last year and Steer and Little Mac this year and not think it may be better to let them work things out in the minors.Now I get it if they don’t do that but now CES has to work on his timing cause he wasn’t hitting so great.That doesn’t line up at all when the Reds are so desperate for power and are falling like a rock already out of contention.
I can’t believe they still plan to start Miley on Monday = forfeit.
He’s got a lot o’ potential. The Red’s team ERA is not quite high enough yet.
He needs to get his timing down… they’re trying to field a competitive team!
Any resemblance between the Cincinnati Reds and the Pittsburgh Pirates is strictly coincidental.
I didn’t follow the game and checked the boxscore later this afternoon and couldn’t believe when I saw Miley’s name in the boxscore. The last I read of Miley he was pretty bad in his rehab, had decided not to sign with the Reds, and by most fans account should probably retire. Next thing I see he’s pitching for the Reds! Boy tough times for the Reds not looking good. I like Miley and respect him and his career but I think that was a bit of an embarrassing move signing and having him pitch today.
The FO is setting up a Wade Miley No-Hitter bobblehead night.
Or have they done that already years ago?
This team has now become a bigger joke than ever = Joe, Hampson and now Miley. What the heck is going on? What a clown show.
Krall has a sense of urgency filling the roster with the best players possible. 😉
Give Conner Joe some credit for his sacrifice fly to right field so the runner could tag up and score the winning run in the victory over Brewers 4-2.
The Reds have been getting run over by pitchers who just pound the strike zone with zero consequences, especially LH pitchers. At minimum, Christian would make the lineup less samey. I have no idea what they’re waiting for here. Call him up.
Got a real pitchers dual going on in Louisville. 12-10 after six. lol
I think CES comes up friday and Hays comes up Sunday
Those 2 will help the futility against lefties
I suspect wynns and joe go back to AAA or picked up-wynns- unless hampson has options
Elly comes back next week
I’m pretty sure that Hampson does not have options.
Who cares he sucks
The Reds are in a funk and now face a team that is usually tough to beat, Arizona. Wynns, who was an offensive leader, about a month ago, hasn’t played since. Trevino is a hitter who should be in the lineup either catching or at DH. Why are Joe, Hampson and Miley on the roster? The reason seems to be the word ‘filling.’ Something has to change or it’s another ‘wait till next year.’
Looks like Sal Stewart Kd twice tonight and was ejected by the home plate umpire. lol
2nd time this season, too.
I can hear him now talking to the umpire, “I’m the leading hitter in this league. I KNOW my strike zone you big dummy!” Maybe not those exact words. lol 😉
Sal knows his strike zone!
I must add, Larkin’s description of him and his ‘different’ type of athleticism during the game was a three base error that turned into a little league homer. Did you hear that? It started bad then just got worse and worse. The producer should have cut his mike.
Sal: “Thanks, Lark.”
I wonder if they were holding onto Wynn all this time thinking they could get a prospect for him at the trade deadline?
Waiting for me to release my debut country song, “Too Good to Expose to Waivers (Too Bad to Play)”
It’s enough to make you wonder if there might be a Stephenson trade pending. That’s crazy talk, you would think, but so is holding a roster spot hostage for a straight month!
I kind of felt they should trade Stephenson. I know I’m in the minority in that camp, but with the Trevino signing too I thought it may have signaled they don’t see Stephenson as their future Catcher overall.
Yeah there are TS trade ideas that make sense for sure, with him hitting free agency after 2026. It would just require us to use “bold” and “midseason” and “Krall” in the same sentence.
Haha, could be a good song, and lyrics that make you think! Yeah it’d be fun if Krall is still GM to at least make some bold interesting moves. Maybe trade Stephenson, trade some prospects for Major League starters even if you’re out of it. Kind of do the opposite of what’s expected, shake things up.
If they don’t think he’ll sign an extension, why not trade Stephenson? They didn’t sign Trevino to be a backup, did they? And he’s been performing like a starter, at least he was when he was getting regular ABs. And they were winning then too. I’d trade Steer too. With Marte at 3B, Lux and Espinal platooning at 2B, CES at 1B, and Candy at DH, once some of those guys return, a guy like Steer without a natural position could be moved. The Red Sox snd Royals could with use both.
My understanding was that they did, in fact, sign Trevino to be a backup. His hitting this season is not the norm for him.
Did anyone expect us to score with bases loaded 1 out and Espinal & righty Elly coming up? I didn’t. Hoped for 1 maybe. Espinal is Spanish for exposed I think.
Elly swings over every halfway average lefty breaking ball and its not even close. There is a hole there the size of the old Astrodome. He cranked one off the wall in KC righty I think, but it had to be a hanger or a fastball.
Elly 2024 = .876 lefty .661 righty
2025 = .906 lefty .554 righty
Probably an offseason thing, but he needs to atleast try batting lefty full-time and see what happens. He just doesn’t see the slider right-handed
CES should’ve already been up. Everyone but Tito has seen enough of Espy. Shades of Bell with his disconnect with reality.
Finally they’re now 5-7 into their 39 games vs winning teams stretch of the schedule.
I predicted about 16 wins which would leave them 8 under at the end of June and basically end the season. Trade the Martinez and Gibaut’s and anyone of value and play the youngsters. We do have plenty of young guys to watch if they let them play. It might bring more energy to the team. Trade Hays too if he can play for a month straight. Again an IF the size of the Astrodome
CES with another double to RC field. If he doesn’t come up for Friday night’s game something is terribly wrong.
The only problem with that second double……
PA started with 3 strikes. CES took one and fouled two. Fine so far.
Then he chases a ball high out of the zone, and then hits a double on a slider a foot off the plate.
In MLB, that double would be a K. We’ve seen it.
In 2 strike counts, particularly 0-2 and 1-2, he gets in ultra=chase mode. It’s his nemesis. He will not attempt to work back into a count if he gets 0-2 and 1-2. He’ll just chase whatever is thrown.
I hope things are different for him in MLB. Not sure they will be.
The Reds have nothing to lose by playing him though.
Yes, plus it wasn’t especially hard hit — more of a fly ball the CF couldn’t reach. Yet box scores will still show double and his numbers go up. All good, yet the devil is in the details.
He popped out earlier with the bases loaded on a pitch out of the zone as well. Weak contact while chasing is his nemesis more than strikeouts.
That said, his chase rate is down this time at AAA, at 24% last look, with contact up.
Point is, he is doing better but will have to sustain that vs ML pitching.
I hope he does.
CES’ ability as a bad-ball hitter is what makes him so hard to give up on. It’s not like he’s a pure mistake hitter with fifteen holes in his bat. He’s got hands. Just has to learn to *not* use that skill until he needs it – otherwise it does more harm than good.
@Noyes,
His bad-ball hitting ability plays in MiLB but not MLB. That’s why, so far, he’s an AAAA tweener.
And he’s gotta holster it until he gets two strikes or faces the elite of the elite. Hitting is 3 skills:
1 – get a good pitch to hit
2 – hit it hard when you get one
3 – hit it hard *even if you don’t get one*
In the majors, CES has been out-of-this-world horrible at #1, and there’s a decent chance he always will be. But #3 is so, so, so rare and so valuable in the playoffs, especially in a power hitter.
That’s my point. He cannot do #3 in MLB, consistently. He can in MiLB, but in MLB it is weak contact or swinging strike. And he doesn’t seem to be able to adjust his game to not chase those pitches, at least yet.
I’m not super optimistic, honestly. His swing decisions have so far to go. It’s just that his best-case scenario is so great that we pretty much have to give him an honest shot at some point. And if not now, when?
Don’t count on him coming up with this organizations failings.
Challenge system coming…..bout time. Should be here now.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/06/mlb-to-propose-automatic-ball-strike-challenge-system-for-2026.html
Elly De La Cruz and Friedl lead the Reds in at-bats and have pretty good numbers. But the next 4 in at-bats (Steer, Mclain, Espinal, Lux) really don’t match too well with other NL Central teams players with the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th most at bats on their teams.
Reds (Steer, Mclain, Espinal, Lux)
11 HRs, 71 RBIs
Cubs (Suzuki, Tucker, Hoerner, Happ)
29 HRs 149 RBIs
Brewers (Turang, Frelick, Conteras, Hoskins)
22 HRs 107 RBIs
Cardinals (Contreras, Arenado, Scott, Winn)
20 HRs 99 RBIs
Pirates (Cruz, McCuthen, Frazier, Kiner-Falefa)
21 HRs 71 RBIs
Pirates 21HRs “74” RBIs
Nice analysis. Kind of bright lites the problem doesn’t it? We are about 10-20 HRs and 30-80 RBIs behind our Division competition with our 3,4,5 and 6 guys. And small home ballpark on top of that. I don’t know the conclusion but it almost has to be 1) we have quite a few players over rated and over valued by their owners and fans, and/or 2) we did a really lousy job of improving the power of this team over the winter. And I thought that and pitching depth were Priority 1.
McLain looked good in spring training and games 2-5, when he hit 3 of his 6 homers, but since he hasn’t done dill. His injury hurt this team last season and his performance has done so this. How long are they willing to wait?
Especially, as I pointed out earlier, McLain isn’t exactly “young” any more. He’s about to turn 26 in August. That’s usually the age by which you would expect a player to start showing what they are really capable of.
McLain bought himself a lot of goodwill from his 2023 season. But at some point, you have to start asking if waiting for the old McLain to show up is really worth it any more.
McLain needs to go to AAA to see if he can discover his old form. We have Lux who can play 2B. I hope once Hays/CES are back, one of the corresponding moves will be to send McLain down.
18 games to the halfway point. Let’s just say we are not exactly trending towards a playoff spot.
Moves of one kind or another should be coming soon. Fingers crossed it’s in the bolstering direction.
What else can it be? This is Year 3 or 4 of Krall’s rebuild in sending off Castillo, Gray, Mahle, Miley, and Nick, and banking on CES, Fraley, Marte, Steer, Williamson, and Benson. Past the point where the young guys should be out performing the old guys.
Not sure I am ready to join old school and agree that the Reds are tanking yet it is becoming more believable.The Reds just signed Miley and put him in the fire just like they did with Joe and Hampson.No way we didn’t have better options in the minors.Maybe more telling is the CES situation and him needing to work on his timing when this team has no clue against lefties and can’t score against pitchers throwing 90 down the middle.Still to come is Candy then Marte and I guess Hinds is now a lifer in the minors at age 24.We will see won’t we.
I dont think they are actively tanking, but they are in a real sense passively tanking. Meaning ,they have gaping holes at 1b/3b/2b/RF and when Hays is out LF due to injury or underperformance or both. Reds are sitting on their hands and letting things play out till after the AS break. A sink or swim mentality. They are dancing with who brought them there and if Candy is out and Marte is out, Espinal is the every day 3b. If McLain is hitting .185 , they aren’t sending him to the minors. If Steer is the primary first baseman and the Reds are dead last in fWAR in MLB at first base, they arent calling the Orioles to trade for Ryan O’hearn. If RF has been poor, they arent trading prospect capital in Arroyo and Petty to acquire a good RF for the shrot and long term. If the bullpen is missing a high leverage arm, they arent addressing it by trading with Nats to acquire Finnegan.
Sampson, Espinal, Conner Joe and Wynns are the cheap depth pieces.
At some point, barring a 2023 like win streak, they will transition away from passive tanking to active tanking. They are are a bad losing streak or road trip away from that which could be a few weeks.
Agreed so we will see how many guys they unload at the break to save money.Not dealing prospects and to continue to cry we have no money is just not a plan.Injuries happen as do players under performing on every team every year.Thats a given but a roll of the dice is not a way to fix it.No team can compete in pro sports by drafting and developing their own players especially when there is no salary cap and especially in baseball.Maybe the joke is on us cause we follow a team that really doesn’t want to win or even try to hide that fact.Phil was right where are we going to go?
Old-school, thank you for saying this.
Passively tanking is the near perfect complement to ownership’s strategic planned mediocrity.
Do they want to be successful? They’d *like* to be successful, but they clearly do not want that before other intended objectives or desired outcomes.
Does Krall want to provide a competitive baseball team? He’d like to do that but he “has” do so under well-established restrictions.
Do we want to purchase tickets to Reds’ games? We’d like to but are facing unfortunate barriers, too.
Phil may ask, Where else are we going to go? We ask, Where else are YOU gonna go, Phil?
I think Phil Castellini is now COO (Chief of Operations) for the Red’s organization. Therefore, Phil and his father are in charge of the front office and are responsible for the reliance on prospects for offense resulting in the waste of good pitching effort. The direction of an organization starts at the top.
Only the Rockies strike out more than the Reds in the NL. That needs to change. We’re average everywhere else offensively – not good, not above average. With the weather warming up now, we might see some offensive progress at GABP.
Our pitching staff is doing a good job limiting walks. The pitching staff also has the lowest BABIP in the NL – probably a sign of some good fortune. We are dead last in GB% though – a real concern at GABP. We’re average everywhere else.
The fly ball nature of our pitching staff leaves us 2nd to last in Assists in the NL, last in DP’s, and last in 1B scoops. We’re below average at controlling the running game too. Not surprisingly, we’re 2nd in PO’s.
All of this spells mediocre. Still, a hot stretch will catapult us.
We go on and on about the team’s lack of power yet we keep sending (arguably) the best power hitter we have in the organization, Rece Hinds, back to the minors. Why? Sure, he has some things he needs to work on, but so do all hitters, even those who have big in the majors for a while. Having the threat of big bats will/should improve the lineup across the board. Why not have Hinds, Friedl, and Benson in the outfield? Maybe put Lux at 2B while we send McClain down to work out whatever he’s got going on (or not going on)? Without Hinds or Benson, there is no true “home run threat” in this lineup. Elly can hit for power at times, as can other regulars in the lineup, but I don’t feel like he’s ever going to be one to hit for 35+ HRs in a season. Whereas, I can see Hinds or Benson having that potential at some point
I mean Elly is on pace right now to hit 30 home runs and he hasn’t even been on any sort of hot streak this year. He’s also younger than Hinds.
Will Benson hasn’t hit 20 home runs in a year since 2019 when he was in A-ball. Though he does have 13 this year in his 54 games between AAA/MLB.
I think maybe you’re selling Elly De La Cruz way short here. Or drastically overrating two guys who haven’t been able to stick in the Major Leagues. Or perhaps both.
To go even further EDLC is on pace for 110 RBI and 48 SB. Our expectations are so high for him that we forget how good he’s doing right now even without that “hot streak”. With Hays coming back Hinds is right where he should be in my view playing every day in AAA until someone gets hurt. Then he plays every day without a platoon. Personally I’d rather have him up instead of Benson (I’m starting to wonder about him) simply because of the fact Hinds doesn’t need that platoon partner. A trade for an outfield bat who’s having a good year would be even better but we all know how likely that is with Mr. Krall controlling things in that area.
Melvin, imagine where we’d be without Elly? And imagine the burden being placed on him?
Some day, EDLC will be in Dodger Blue or NYY Pinstripes (my bet, because he loves the East Coast Dominican community), and he will say, “Oh, this is what it’s supposed to be like.” And not because of the money,either. But because he will be valued and given help on the field. And he will realize just how terrible the Castellanis are, not just for the Reds, but for baseball. Hunter will say the same.
@Charlie
Rece Hinds has a 35% K rate in MiLB. I did a good bit of research and could not find a single player that had even a moderately (5 career fWAR) successful MLB career with such an astronomical MiLB K rate.
The closest comp I could find to Hinds:
Joey Gallo 34.2% K rate in MiLB, 38.0% K rate in MLB. He did muster 15.6 bWAR over 9 MLB seasons with a career .194 average.
So if everything goes absolutely perfect for Hinds, he might turn into Joey Gallo. That’s not much to wish for.
In defense of Hinds his pitch recognition has been improving a great deal when given consistent playing time this year. He’s only 24 years old. He has the right to improve at that age without being labeled. Last night he had the toughest game yet since returning back to AAA with three Ks. Even with that I have his unofficial K rate in those 11 games at about 27%. He also had two hits last night. If you were able to watch him after his last K in that game he was very upset breaking the bat on the ground. He has a fire and great desire to improve and is seemingly not accepting anything else.
There is a glimmer of hope, I think, Hype.
Hinds had a breakout at AA, which was his first season of being healthy and was also his first under hitting coach Daryl Ward, who is now hitting coach at AAA. So, he has recent history and a good support in place. But, also, he is hitting LH pitching well and, of note, is not striking out nearly as badly vs LH as the career number you cite above (35%) or his current AAA number vs RH (34%), shows.
My take is that we can disregard his early numbers to a pretty fair extent, given his struggles getting and staying healthy, as well as because of his improvements at AA and his (more limited but still significant) improvements vs LH pitching at AAA.
These suggest to me he has a ceiling of a platoon OF with serious power, speed, and IMO solid defense.
Watching him through the lens of his RH/LH pitching splits, it’s not just swing and miss vs. the proverbial ‘slider away.’ He is showing better ability there, as Melvin notes, via eye test (whereas Aquino never did). But Hinds has problematic swing and miss vs. sliders in the zone, too. To me, this is what likely contributed (some) to his demotion and I’d think is near the very top of his to-do list. It’s also a very good reason to see him playing every day at AAA.
In the grand scheme of things, developing a platoon RF with power out of a 2nd round pick with both high risk (high school) and increased risk (early injury history) would be a success.
I guess my point with Hinds is the odds are severely stacked against him. And he hasn’t proven anything at AAA yet. MLB is not the place to hope for a dramatic turnaround in a player, because it’s almost surely not happening there. Do it at a lower level first. Nothing he’s done at AAA is impressive, outside of small sample sizes that where all players excel at times, and that’s why he’s never been a top prospect.
AllTheHype is 100% correct. Hinds must prove himself more successful in AAA before you place him in the Reds starting lineup. There must be posters for Hinds getting paid by his agent to keep promoting him. Ha.
Should the Reds trade for Jarren Duran?
https://blogredmachine.com/reds-can-should-offer-red-sox-better-package-than-padres-for-jarren-duran?utm_campaign=FanSided+Daily&utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email&sc=c3a8b03aa4675c74ec4c35e25be58c93e3c61b5ef7e6fc8f70a8923b59647687
Any prospect besides Burns untouchable?
Melvin, Posed this question yesterday about trading for Duran. What would you think it would take? An outfielder not named Friedl currently on the roster and two high level prospects? Red Sox already have one of the higher rated prospects in the minors – who happens to be an outfielder, so I think for the Red Sox, they may not be worried about losing Duran.
I think they probably want close to ML ready pitching prospects mostly. Just NOT Burns.
Far too expensive and only one more year of control. Who in their right mind would give up someone like Burns for one year of any player about to enter free agency and subsequently too expensive for the Reds. If he can be acquired more reasonably, go for it. Generally, Drew Koch strikes me as a click farmer. I haven’t seen much him that even vaguely strikes me as credible or likely.
As I said I wouldn’t give up Burns either but Duran, according to the article, doesn’t hit free agency until after 2028 which would give us over 3/1/2 years of control would it not?
I think you’re right. Baseball Ref shows him as having a team option for 2026, but in the small print says FA in 2029. I looked at the number and inferred his contract was expiring. Regardless, trading Burns after passing up all the viable hitters to draft him would be a move too ridiculous for even Krall.
I understand what you mean and I certainly don’t always agree with that author either. In fairness to him I don’t think he mentioned Burns.
Another article I read suggested Burns, Lowder, and Ashcraft for Duran. Now THAT would be ridiculous.
I just don’t know if this is the right thinking at this point in time. I am kind of in the reverse mode. Who do we need to significantly enhance our power and our offense, and who do we trade to get him? I have moved past the untouchables. With this team, we have been in future mode or prospect mode for too long now. We need to get to present mode and win the Division before we enshrine any more of these young guys and prospects. We have heard for too long about the untouchables (Phillips, Lowder, Arroyo, and now Burns). I thought the signings of Hays, Martinez, Roger’s, Singer, and Trevino were all good improvement moves and an indication the 2025 team was In To Win. I thought Tucker or Bellinger was the missing piece and was needed. The Cubs obviously thought similarily as they offerred more top ten prospects than the Reds for Tucker. But whew, we still have Arroyo, Stewart, and Dunn. At any rate if 2025 is the year, we better add some offense quickly or it is going to be 2026 with the same young guys that we rode into 2024 and 2025 with. McLain, Steer, Fraley, Benson, Elly, CES, Dunn, Hurtebise, and Marte. And that is somehow going to be better than2025. Come on, that is too much Koolaid. Somehow, some way, a GM has to step up to the plate here. Are these the guys to take us to the promised land this year? Next year? I am concerned a lot of water has gone under the bridge without the GM addressing our offensive woes.we all know we need less of McLain and Benson and more of a couple big bats. I don’t believe there is a single prospect that is going to help our offense overtake the Cubs in 2025 or 2026. Then doesn’t your answer lie there?
Well one thing is for sure Rob. We’ve seen what a big bat can do for us. Just look at the difference when Hays is healthy. We roll pretty good when he’s around. Add another one and…..
To borrow a quip from Tony Kornheiser, If Wade Miley’s the answer—-What’s the Question?????
Sounds like CES is the savior of the month. When he comes up, he is sure to disappoint.
The main point about CES coming up is who would you rather have on the roster, him or Joe/Hampson? Stick him at 3B and see how he does. Who would you rather have in the lineup, him or Espinal? Let Espinal play SS until Elly returns.
My point is CES hasn’t hit well against major league pitching in nearly two years. It’s clear the major league pitchers made adjustments and CES has not. I guess I don’t see much difference between Espinal and CES, except Espinal doesn’t strike out quite as much.
Elly could and may hit 50 as he gets older or if he tried to go deep.His bat speed and power is elite but your points about Benson and Hinds are valid and let me add CES and Marte.Benson has around 800 at bats in the majors but the rest have less then a years worth of at bats in the majors.I can’t set here and say any of them will pan out cause I have no clue but I can say they should get a legit chance to prove it.Reds aren’t going anywhere again this year without them so lets see if one or two can step up and maybe just maybe it happens.Krall said he wouldn’t trade prospects so what else is there to do outside of more of the same thing we see now.
@ Melvin.I agree 100 % about Hinds and as far as strikeouts are concerned I don’t get the big concern cause its his power and speed and arm that matter the most.Benson and Elly both struck out a lot last year and will again this year .Benson in 128 games fanned 154 times and Elly in 160 games fanned 218 times and so what.Its what you do when you hit the ball that matters in today’s game.Power plays and Elly and Benson both have carried the Reds at times and Hinds did for a few games last year.You can’t teach speed nor teach a guy to hit a baseball coming at you 100 miles an hour 450 feet.Good to see Hinds upset when he fans.This team is 26th in strikeouts with a bunch of guys with no power.Come on get Hinds up here.
With respect to Chris Valaika, he may turn out to be a bad coach. However, most of the lineup has spent the last several years on the slash and burn strategy – feast or famine. Relearning contact, patience, etc. will take some time. That includes base running, steals, defense, the whole nine yards. Injecting the team with a new culture and a new approach is going to take some time. They have to regress to move forward.
Kind of “break em down and build em back up strategy to a certain degree?”
This is probably good counsel. Overall, it does appear they are using all fields a bit more often, but their plate approach/discipline certainly needs improvement as does their situational execution.
Not sure if it’s the players or hitting coach, or combination. But it’s the same book, different chapter.
Same record (so far) as the David Bell led Reds. As fans, let’s not get distracted by firing the manager and (now the) GM and moving the chairs around and use our voices/wallets to pressure ownership to really invest in this team.
I agree having a David Bell record at this point is less than hoped for. Nonetheless, one can see some progress. It just isn’t showing up in the record thus far. That Hays has only played in 31 of 63 games hasn’t helped. But that likely would have happened regardless of the manager. My biggest gripe thus far this season is the bullpen choking against the Cubs like a bunch of high school players. They were in a position to win at least two of those games and Ashcraft and Santillian decided to pitch batting practice. Not thrilled that they’ve still rolled over again for the Brewers. That’s a mental thingl. And of course, Krall is still dumpster diving. And he would have done that had Bell been managing. The difference is that Francona doesn’t play guys like Connor Joe and Hampson every game. Tito plays them too often, but he has little to work with on the bench. And I think he’s telegraphed to Krall that he doesn’t need three catchers, i.e., Wynns appeared in 8 games in May, none so far in June, and had a total of 7 PAs for the month. What move does he have to do to get Krall to move on. Send down Wynns and call up Hinds, CES, even Candelario. But bring up someone that can actually play. Wynns is well beyond his career averages. Let’s not pretend that approaching 35 yo that he’s turned into Johnny Bench.
I think you’re right LDS Francona may be sending a message to Krall passively by not playing Wynn. I thought Bell did that a little bit too at times. Kind of odd, but maybe that happens sometimes where a Manager is kind of sending a message to his own GM about roster moves in subtle or not so subtle ways.
LDS, I am really glad you said this. I have been thinking about it and had not yet formed a complete take on the issue. This helps.
One other aspect to your thought I have been considering is whether the current roster, holdover players in particular, have the ability, skill and aptitude to hit in the Valaika system.
The new players brought in off season ie Lux seem, at a minimum, to fit at least more closely with a contact over power approach. Some holdovers, Friedl, seem to be doing well. Others, ie Benson, getting there. Several, ie Dunn, Fraley, perhaps even McLain, are struggling greatly. As i think about this, it just seems like it is really is, as you say, a 2-3 year project to transform both hitting approach, goals (more contact, fewer K’s) and roster. Perhaps most importantly, roster. So it isn’t as much adding on to the roster, as it is transforming it, to go with the transformation of the offensive approach. When you look at it this way, it gets more clear why we shy away from high K, high chase hitters. At least in one small part.
Excellent comment.
If the Reds are say 10 games under around the trade deadline I’d think probably Krall is on the hot seat. Then I wouldn’t think you’d want him making any deals if you’re thinking of maybe letting him go. So you’d probably want to let him go before the all star break if that’s the case.
Reds can’t really do a whole lot now though. I think they just have to play it out hope a couple players get healthy and help, and July 20th or so see what direction they are wanting to go with Krall, the current group of young players, veterans etc. I think if they’re within 6 games of the last wild card spot late July maybe you hope for a turnaround. I see little chance of overtaking the Cubs. Only shot I think would be the last wild card spot assuming things really turned around in a good way. Cubs look like a 90-95 win team to me.
Your right just get guys healthy,put them in and lets see.Arizona just put 7 up and stiil batting in the ninth against the Braves.Old buddy Suarez with a two out 2 run double against old buddy Iggy to go up 11-10.Yep those were the days so long ago.
Can you imagine (and I’m sure you can!) what the Diamondbacks lineup is going to do to Cincinnati this weekend?
Could be three very lop-sided victories for the Diamondbacks. I mean, it’s going to be Lodolo, Singer and Martinez (they are missing our ace, Wade Miley!) Even if the starters give the Reds 6 good innings (whatever happened to complete games?), we can count on bullpen meltdowns. Plus the Reds will struggle to score, especially without Elly this weekend, probably their best offensive player.;(
@ roger, I read the box score this morning and DBack’s got a run early on Chris Sale yesterday and 1-0 game through 8 innings. Braves brought in Iggy and he gives up a backbreaking run to make it Dbacks 2-0 and then Braves score 1 run in the 9th but fall 2-1.
Raisel Iglesias ERA is 6.75 as the Braves closer.
No doubt he ain’t what he used to be.Threw 20 pitches and 5 were fastballs with one at 95 and it went down to 93.Mostly change ups and the double by Suarez was on a 3-2 pitch at 88 inner half that ESPN says was a change up.He ain’t got the stuff any more.
Call up CES and Hinds and see what happens. I might be the vg only. Gguy on RLN that kind of likes Connor Joe. He had a .820 ops vs lhp in 2023. Better then playing Lux, Hampson, or Benson vs lefties.
2026 could still be special although I feel like Annie singing Tomorrow Tomorrow by just typing it. Burns, Lowder, and Williamson possibly? Mey will develop. They just need to play the young guys and let it go. No impact whatsoever between 79 wins and 73 except drafting lower
I’m all for stretching Richardson out too. Kid has really put in the work between the ears to make himself a pitcher. Took HG 3 years and still rarely throws a change. We’re still waiting on GA
Connor Joe was frequently a pain in the arse when playing against the Reds.
Indy, I just can’t see how we can feel 2026 looks better than 2025. That sounds like Francona logic that “we know these guys are going to start hitting.” We have 3 core pieces batting in the 4,5, and 6 spots hitting 225 with 5 HRs each. And guys in the 8 and 9 slot hitting 190. What is the belief here? That they all are going to be Cublike and hit 270 all of a sudden with 25-30 HRs? Or that Krall never trade any young guy is going to off load a few of the Steer, Stephenson, Fraley, Benson, McLain crowd? I thought Fraley and Benson would be gone this past winter in favor of somebody like Bellinger or Tucker but that didn’t happen. Just hard for me to accept that this GM is going to make a 180 degree about face this upcoming winter. I would feel pretty comfortable betting that Steer, McLain, and Stephenson are part of this roster next April. We can say they are good, winning players but the data to date suggests otherwise. (Stephenson may be bouncing back.). If we don’t have the talent, skills or energy to makeup ground on the Cubs in the next 4 months, I can’t foresee it happening in 2026. These are not necessarily easy decisions but it is now or never in my view. And Krall seems to be leaning toward never.
Tito is just putting forth the positivity. It’s what managers do.
Red Scott, you are correct that managers are typically overly positive about their club…..but Toto much less so than Bell constantly saying we were a good team.
The point I was really commenting on though was the prediction could be better in 2026. Why? Are our 220 hitters going to hit 275 because the calander turns? Are we going to trade a bunch of these young 220 hitters to get 275 hitters? Are our 2026 free agent signings and spending going to be better and more than the 2025 bunch of Hays, Lux, Martinez, and Trevino? And are we going to have 3-4 guys hitting 30 HRs like the Cubs seem to have? Just don’t see this happening. 2025 has to be our year unless we somehow see Krall dumping a bunch of his prized young acquisitions. This is us I am afraid. Our best improvement assets are probably Burns and Greene and I just can’t see Krall trading either. Thus more of the same guys.
Jeimer Candelario has been moved to Louisville to continue his rehab assignment.
https://twitter.com/Reds/status/1930704979288867291
Bats Thursday lineup has posted:
https://x.com/Reds/status/1930704979288867291
Candelario at 3B and CES as DH.
No sign of Hinds. Is he getting a day in the cooler after his bat breaking tantrum when he struck out to end Wednesday’s game? Perhaps on rotation for a day off? OR, the guy to be called up to take EDLC’s spot while he is on Bereavement???
Oops, got my links crossed. Here is the Bats Thursday lineup
https://x.com/LouisvilleBats/status/1930739667038601233
Yeah. Gameday says CES at 3B. No Hinds as you said. He’s played virtually every day so that’s strange in itself. Could mean a day off. Could mean something else.
The original they posted to X also had Ivan Johnson as catcher and Rios as RF, which I questioned in my mind but did not comment about.
I’m watching and it looks like Rios DH, Cadelario 1B and CES 3B which seems saner. 😉
Sane is good ain’t it? 🙂
The Bats have given up four HR tonight and still in the 2nd inning. If I heard the announcers correctly they’ve given up 14 HR so far in the last three games. Unbelievable.
I’m thinking at least 3 of the HR allowed by Bats in the last week have been salamis.
Not exactly a lot of pitching in AAA to help the Reds at least lately. lol
Is it just me, or is CES putting some pounds back on?
And on the pitching, nada, nadie.
I hope he’s not putting on more pounds. I was just thinking Candy looks a littler slimmer. If so we’ll see if it helps.
Make that 15 HR given up in the series now. lol
CES had made several plays and so far seems pretty comfortable at 3B.
I know this is not a baseball/Reds thing but…..PACERS DO IT AGAIN IN THE LAST SECONDS AGAINST THE THUNDER!!!!!….sorry. Just had to get that out of my system. 😀
Team of destiny????
It’s looking more and more that way. Let’s hope so. 🙂