The Cincinnati Reds have fired manager David Bell. The timing of the move is interesting as there is one week remaining in the regular season, the club has been playing well this month, and it just seems strange to make the move now.
David Bell had two years (and a week) remaining on his contract. He signed an extension with the club in July of 2023 that ran through the 2026 season. He’ll get a few nice paychecks over the next two years while doing something other than work for the Reds. The team also announced that bench coach Freddie Benavides will step in as interim manager for the rest of season.
Cincinnati hired Bell prior to the 2019 season. Over the next five years he would have three winning seasons and two losing ones, going 333-375 prior to the 2024 season. Those three winning seasons were seasons that saw the team barely top the .500 mark in each of them, while the 62-100 2022 campaign really sunk the record during Bell’s tenure.
This season the Reds are 76-81. Another year of non-contention and simply being rather mediocre-ish. With his firing, Bell’s record in Cincinnati was 409-456. That’s a .473 winning percentage. That would rank him 23rd all-time among Reds managers who lasted for two or more seasons.
Managers aren’t always responsible for winning seasons or losing seasons. You’ve got to have the players to get the job done. It’s probably fair to say that the ownership and front office didn’t exactly hand David Bell competitive rosters in several of the seasons he was the manager. The 2020 season felt like one in which he had a good roster to work with, but the world went into chaos mode that year and we wound up with a 60-game season. And then this season seemed like the roster had a chance, but then suspensions and injuries piled up and things simply did not work.
With that said, there are plenty of valid criticisms about what Bell (and likely some of his coaching staff) did or didn’t do to help push the team forward. The lineups were often strange. It felt as if there wasn’t much accountability for repeated mistakes being made by the same players.
And then there’s always the fact that when losing continues that someone has to take the fall. And that someone is usually the manager. Ownership isn’t going to fire themselves. And the front office folks in charge of the evaluation don’t often point at themselves as the issue, either. Self preservation and all.
There is a whole lot of blame to go around in the offices at Great American Ball Park for the Reds and their losing ways. It’s been 29 years since the team last won a playoff series. Their farm system hasn’t had a full-season team win a league championship in 22 years. Since Bob Castellini’s ownership group has taken over the team the Reds have won the division twice in 19 years. They’ve never finished in second place. 19 years and only twice have they finished better than 3rd place. When it comes down to who is to blame it should be the Spiderman pointing at Spiderman meme, but with about 15 Spidermen wearing Reds hats.
Here’s the official press release from the team on the move:
The Cincinnati Reds have announced they are replacing manager David Bell, effective immediately. Bench coach Freddie Benavides will serve as the interim manager for the final 5 games of the 2024 season.
“David provided the kind of steadiness that we needed in our clubhouse over the last few seasons. We felt a change was needed to move the Major League team forward. We have not achieved the success we expected, and we need to begin focusing on 2025,” Krall said.
Bell, 52, was hired by the Reds in October 2018. He compiled a 409-456 record over 6 seasons, including a 76-81 mark this year. In 2020, the Reds earned a Postseason berth in his second season, which was shortened by COVID-19 to 60 games.
Good riddance! I’m glad he wasn’t given the start of 2025. He would have inevitably been fired during next season anyway. Very odd timing though with only 5 games left.
They waited until Reds were officially eliminated.
Stunning timing! Wow… why now? A week to go… what’s the advantage?
They don’t have to buy a ticket for the upcoming road trip? 😉
don’t forget meal money….
He very well may have gotten into it with someone higher up the chain and was terminated immediately versus waiting until the season was over. After Krall basically saying they would evaluate everything including the Manager, Bell may have confronted him and hastened his being let go. There could be numerous reasons.
Long long overdue for many reasons not necessary to rehash. Its never easy but this had to be done. Next task of course is to pick the right guy to finally move us forward. Surprised in some ways it happened this way. But had to be done. Now lets go WIN in 25!
The problem is the front office. Like Doug said the overall results for about three decades tell the whole story.
Good luck to whoever is hired. They better be a magic man.
Next year just got a lot more interesting though.
1. My guess he was informed he wouldn’t be retained for 2025, and given the option to finish the year, but gave Krall the double bird and walked out
2. The way the Reds operate, Freddie Benavides will go 5-0 this week and the team will give him the gig full time and we end up with much of the same
3. Bob Nightingale says Skip Schumaker is on the team’s radar
Skip Schumaker, manager of the 57-98 Marlins?
Manager of the year last year before the team went into rebuild mode after dumping their GM.
Okay, that’s fair. Good point.
Yeah, he had the Marlins overachieving there for a while. But the Reds may not be his only suitors. If St. Louis wants him, he’ll go with them, no doubt, and the Reds will have to settle for their second choice, as they did when they hired Bell.
He’s scrappy and has a lot of grit!!!
C’mon man!
David Ross!
Replace a guy whose team will lose 81-86 games this year with a guy whose team will lose 100 or more. And don’t try the “management dismantled the team under Schumaker” excuse. Injuries and poor performances dismantled the team under Bell. Method different; result same, except Bell’s record this year better than Schumaker’s.
Despite all the hardships.
The new manager will be lauded as a genius if next year’s team is healthy and performs well, but woe be unto him whose performance dips or slips, as it inevitably will.
I guess they want a fresh start to next year and do not blame them. But the funny thing is, in my opinion, Bell has done a pretty good job over the last few months given the dumpster fire the pitching staff has become due to injuries. He has the team playing around .500 baseball despite the revolving door with the AAA staff, But this will give a new manager the freedom to put his staff together and have them working to get off running in spring training. Hopefully a group that will eliminate the brain dead little league mistakes the current version of the Reds seemed to make on a daily basis especially on the basepaths.
Though I’d like to see Derek Johnson retained by whoever the new manager is.
I would be ok with Johnson staying but I doubt that will happen with a new manager coming in.
Maybe because after all the injuries, guys were forced into a singular role. He also (finally) stopped playing Benson, Maile, and a lot of his other favorite pet projects, as much.
Benson and Maile had such poor averages it was like you were giving up two innings a game when Bell put both in the lineup batting back to back. Kind of like you had 7 innings at bat against the other teams 9.
He didn’t have another option for Maile. I couldn’t understand why Benson wasn’t sent down during the season or at least benched. He was painful to watch bat.
I was wrong on Benson. I thought he had clicked, because his hot spell appeared to be much more well-rounded than a typical streak, having, in that brief period, the Reds’ best at-bats.
Oh crap… I was wrong, didn’t think they would and Hallelujah! Odd timing but thank goodness!
Come to think of it, maybe it’s about getting a head start on teams that will fire managers at seasons end.
finally the Reds are first in something….
I thought they’d be too cheap to pay him to not manage.
Nah. If they ate the contracts of Moustakas, Myers and Akiyama, they were going to eat Bell’s chump-change contract.
Finally paying off Junior and JDV freed up some $$$?
Good. More thoughts on this tomorrow when I’m not so bleary eyed. But I think this is overdue.
A manager has three main jobs – cultivating and nurturing a productive clubhouse and team cohesiveness, establishing expectations for the big picture and the tiny details and holding players accountable, and setting lineups and pitching rotations and then making in-game decisions.
I think David Bell did a decent job with the first responsibility – players seemed to like playing for the Reds and Bell, and seemed to enjoy playing together. IMO Bell was terrible at the second – the Reds were bad at certain fundamentals and repeated the same (mental) mistakes again and again. Physical mistakes are part of the game – baseball is hard. Mental mistakes can and should be reduced over time but with base running, defense, plate discipline and pitching approach the Reds rarely seemed to improve. And as for lineups and in-game strategy I think Bell was among the worst managers in the league.
So even if you lay most of the blame for under performance in this and recent years on injuries and front office shortcomings – if so, fair – then Bell was still past his sell by date. Just because he wasn’t the whole problem doesn’t mean he wasn’t part of the problem. I for one am pleased by this news. I do wish David Bell well, he seems like a decent human and I’ll root for him with whatever is next, but I’m glad he won’t be at the helm on Opening Day 2025.
I like your overview, CFD3000. The move won’t inspire any optimism in me unless the Reds commit serious resources to upgrading the roster. A manager who is able to get the players to reduce mental errors will help, but that would only take them to close but no cigar territory.
Hi CFD3000. I do indeed lay the blame on injuries and front office (ownership mostly) shortcomings and Bell third. I still maintain if we did not have the long term injuries/suspensions to several key players, several of the FA players Krall picked up under preforming, we would have been seriously competing for the division title and David Bell would be in the running for NL manager of the year award.
As for who is next that will be very interesting. Will ownership allow someone who has any power or serious say so to be hired? My pick, is probably not a popular one nor do I know if he wants to be considered for the job but I want Barry Larkin. Then to quickly address the elephant in the room (for me) is will ownership spend serious money and add serious players to this roster so that whoever they do hire has a real chance at winning. To wrap it up I have burnt a blank MLB IL form at the alter of the injury gods. They seemed pleased. We shall see.
Correct you are, Sir – on all 3 points! Nice overview! The 5 man SP rotation looks good for ’25. Base Ball is a hard game. Seemingly, he Reds only have about 5 position players of major league caliber who can play this ‘hard game’!. ‘Can’t anybody here hit that ball?’ – Casey of the Stengel Clan, paraphrased!
I wasn’t a fan of Bell as a manager, but I won’t kick the man on the way out of the door. Good luck in your future endeavors.
I’m happy they are moving on.
Hopefully, they do their diligence in searching for a new guy, and that being a former Red or ties to the organization isn’t a prerequisite.
EXACTLY! The most successful Reds managers (of my lifetime anyway) had no prior ties to the Reds.
Sparky
Piniella
Davey Johnson
McKeon (manager of really good, underrated 1999 Reds)
Dusty
Do I have that right – that none of those guys had ties to the Reds organization prior to taking the manager job? (I’m sure they knew people… but they had never played or coached in the Reds organization before… true?)
McKeon was great! A really fun manager. I was really happy for him when he won the WS with the Marlins in ’03.
I believe that both Davey Johnson and Jack McKeon were each in the Red’s front office shortly prior to their hiring as Manager.
I believe Sparky coached in the Reds minor league system
Sparky managed a Reds MiLB team in late 1960s. Asheville NC, I think.
Johnson was hired as Special Assistant to GM before he became Manager but no other ties.
Also had no family ties to the Reds. (I just realized that David Bell hadn’t played or coached here before either, but his family DEFINITELY had ties to the Reds.)
Brace yourself. Jay Bruce. I don’t usually start rumors, but Bruce made an unexplained appearance this weekend: on such flimsy events many rumors and conspiracy theories are founded. The timing? It gives Bruce the entire off-season to read the books that explain how to be a MLB manager.
Maybe he was there to see Nelly?
Killing two birds with one stone, no doubt.
MLB Managing for Dummies is a best seller!
Thanks, Dennis. The title had escaped me.
Would Jay Bruce maybe be a candidate? It is interesting he was here the same time they were making decisions to remove Bell. Yes, it’s a rumor starting but maybe there is something there.
If I am, in fact, the one who started the rumor, assign the value to it that it deserves.
Maybe I’m missing something but I see nothing that would make me believe Jay Bruce would be a good manager.
You’ve heard of hidden gems, right Melvin? His light may shine under a basket, but shine it does.
No ties to the Organization seems to have produced better results in the past. Heard somewhere a recent mumble about ‘Lark’ of the broadcast booth. IMO a bad, really really bad, choice! Wonder what their hire timetable is?
I wish David Bell the very best in his personal life. As far as being manager of the Cincinnati Reds it was way past time to let him go…..the Reds do things at strange times I must say.
Well said Melvin. Firing manager with 1 week to go is so Reds.
You knew something was up when Krall said the team wasn’t winning games that they should be. That this was probably gonna happen in the not to distant future.
This was far less shocking than the timing of his extensions. Baffling both times IMO. They just didnt want to take him on the road trip, let him move on instead.
Joe Girardi would be my pick. I just never could get used to his monotone delivery and trying to be everybody’s pal. I did not hate him. Just could not figure what he was doing at times
That’s who the Reds wanted when they hired Bell. A lot of people seem to have forgotten that Girardi was their first choice, but he refused their offer, stuck with being a MLB Network analyst, and waited more than a season before getting hired to manage the Phils. He said he wanted to manage a big city (big money) club.
source?
I don’t know the source, but I do remember there was something about not getting their 1st choice last time they were hiring a manager.
I think they wanted it to be known it’s time for a change now! You wait a week you get into playoff ball and having to wait until postseason is done.
Getting blanked today and getting Bob to sign off was all the coffin nails Krall needed
I’ve never been wild about Bell. Reminded me a lot of Miley. Nice guy, company man but zero accountability or personality.
He will never get it but I loved Mackanin when he took over a terrible Narron team I 07 and got them to play winning ball the second half of 07. Chose Baker over him which I was indifferent on and still am
Regardless anyone is an upgrade here
I agree about Mackanin, Andy. He was a much better manager for the Reds than Dusty.
Maybe Dusty can wave at Pete M. from the podium in Cooperstown.
The Reds have made some strange decisions over the years when it comes to their managers. They opted to hire Tony Perez over Ron Oester in 1993, then fired Perez after just 44 games! And they didn’t hire Oester again, and went with Davey Johnson who had a worse winning percentage than Perez that season. Ray Knight was also a mistake.
You’re right about Mackanin. I also thought he did a good job and was surprised when they didn’t stick with him. Baker was the big name guy at the time, having managed the Giants to the ’02 WS and having taken the Cubs to the playoffs. Though, his handling of pitching staff was odd at times. Wasn’t it in ’03 that the Cubs should have made the WS and lost it due to his choice not to bring in a reliever? Anyway, he had 3 winning seasons out of 6 with the Reds, which is what Bell had too. Baker was used to big cities and big payrolls; some weren’t sure it was a good fit.
On the timing: My guess is, he had to have a winning record this year to be retained. Today’s game result made that impossible.
I suggest in keeping the news from LDS until tomorrow. Otherwise he won’t be able to sleep tonight. 😀
I dont think anything short of selling the team to some genius corporate character will appease him, at least it would for a moment anyway.
Appease? Interesting choice of words. Bottom line, winning is what matters. If the organization decides to actually try to win, then I’m all in. That they finally made the move that was obviously needed is a surprise. I’m glad Bob/Phil/Krall or whomever finally caught up with those of us who have known Bell wasn’t the guy for several years now.
Bring back our future H.O.F. Joey Votto!! Maybe he could be Player/Manager !! The fans would absolutely love it!! In 2023 his younger Reds team mates seemed to really appreciate his veteran advice and wisdom too!!
He can’t play well anymore by his own admission. He wouldn’t come back even for one game knowing that he would embarrass himself I’m afraid.
I personally don’t want Votto anywhere in the organization. I know that’s not a popular opinion but he didn’t want any leadership role as a player so I just don’t want that kind of personality.
He’s probably consumed with making videos now anyways.
Saying he didnt want a leadership role when I’ve heard numerous stories of him working with younger players, including the minors, sounds so… so ridiculous and uninformed. Maybe he didnt lead the way you wish he did, but that takes nothing away from what he gave behind the scenes. I think he deserves even more praise that he never asked for credit for it.
Making videos? I agree he is not the managerial type, but slamming one of the best players ever to put on a Reds uniform is ridiculous and uncalled for.
Joey Votto as manager/hitting coach. No need to take up a roster spot.
No no no to Votto. Ditto for Larkin. The last thing the Reds need is another guy who’s buddy buddy with the players. As someone posted earlier, the most successful Reds managers have come from outside the organization. Time to shake things up.
I agree with to vote no on Votto but I vote yes on Larkin. He may be friendly with some players on the team but he is quite different from Bell. He would demand accountability, stress fundamentals, from players and would demand control from ownership. He is a hall of famer, a life long Red, has been a roving instructor and a birds eye view of the team for a few years now from the booth. I don’t know if he is interested in the job, I am sure we will find out soon enough but he deserves a real shot at the job IMHO.
How long does it take for a new manager to get get to know and be friendly with the players?
Lakin made an interesting comment during late season game about “expectations”. How Pinella instilled an expectation that the team would win… and he intimated that the Reds/Bell didn’t have that expectation…. I wonder how much input Larkin had in this firing…. Not that I would want him as manager.
Agree no Votto / Larkin please. A former player could be an option, but it needs to be someone who has managed a young team before.
Schneidlywhiplash – Larkin makes some very stupid comments at times but also makes some very good ones too. He has to be smarter than his dumb ones. I think he just blurts out things when he doesn’t know what to say. His recent comments that you are referring to gives me hope that he may not be a bad manager. While not campaigning for him he would be a definite upgrade over Bell in my view.
I’m a fan, please don’t speak for me.
The discussion of who we hire can wait till next week. First things first is the entire staff needs relieved too including the pitching coach. Sorry but thats what must be done too for a complete fresh reset
Disagree…hitting coach needs to go. Cowgill (1b coach and OF Coordinator) did a great job. The pitching side of things was on the up tick….
UP Tick? How many of the starters have played 2024 Injury free? And yes that is part of the pitching coaches responsibility. He needs to design programs for every pitcher to pitch within the personal capabilities thus keeping them healthy. In this regard Johnson has been terrible. Clean house get rid of them all.
Given the prevalence of injuries to pitchers throughout the league, I think it’s a stretch to blame DJ for the Reds’ injuries. Blame may rightly be placed , perhaps, on the current fixation with velocity. To the degree that all coaches foster this, they are all to blame, but the pitchers that MLB coaches are seeing arrive already selected for their ability to throw hard.
Wow. That’s even more surprising to me than when the Reds fired Sparky in 1978.
Lagniappe (Cajun for A Little Bit More). The Reds fired Mayo Smith in 1959. He won WS in 1968 as Detroit manager. The Reds fired John McNamara in 1982. He took Red Sox to WS in 1986 and could have won it if Bill Buckner had fielded that ground ball.
Firing Sparky was the worst decision in my lifetime by the Reds. The front office refused to sign their players to long-term contracts and made stupid decisions on trades (Perez), but blamed Sparky for the fallout.
Ok, That’s the end of the Bell’s story wearing a Reds uniform. I think this move is correct if you want to start something new on the team. Now, to know whether it will work out just we should wait who will be the next manager and how the team will going in 2025. Maybe Krall felt he also was in jeopardy and could be the next fired…
And maybe Krall will be next up to depart. Phil Castellini has what amounts to a second chance to make a first impression with the fans. Who can say what he will do with it?
Yeah. I kind of stated that in another thread earlier today. He may want to insert himself and show “who’s boss”. One thing is for sure it would be hard to make his reputation and worse than it already is.
They need to fire more than just Krall. They need to clean house. Get rid of all the coaches and hanger-ons upstairs. They still list Jocketty as part of the staff -Walt Jocketty – Executive Advisor to the CEO. Remove the stench that has done nothing since he got here. I would interview Mark DeRosa for the job. JMO Oh and sell the team. Bob is the main stench coming from up above.
Stench= over the top.
For me he can get a second chance not for firing Bell but if he spends some serious money to get some serious players. No manager/GM wins without the horses, period.
Honestly for me personally it was very hard to be optimistic and enthusiastic as a Reds fan while David Bell was manager. I have that ray of hope back again now at least for a little while.
I fully expect when news breaks to all that this thread may be one of the longest in the history of Redleg Nation. haha
I had to do a lot of scrolling to the bottom about an hour ago just to put my own comments in before starting to reply to others.
Thank God. Now fire Krall.
Joe Girardi was offered the job before David Bell, but he turned it down. I believe that’s when he took the Phillies job. What about Joe Maddon? He’s too old school for most on this site.
I just want a manager from the “school of winning”. I don’t care how he does it. 🙂
this
Reds should inquire if Terry Francona would be interested, since his health has improved.
If Terry Francona had health problems while managing a contending team like the Indians/Guardians why would he want to come here when he could have stayed there.
MK – Maybe he needed time off for his health to improve.
Joe Girardi did not get offered the job. He said he was not interested in taking the job during the Reds search.
Thanks Doug
Please no Maddon. He’s full of himself, probably why he is unemployed right now. The way he managed pitching in the World Series, even though he won, made Bell managing style look pretty good.
@Cincy, “The way he managed pitching in the World Series, even though he won“
Winning a World Series sounds pretty good to me.
if a world series winning manager’s style bothers you, you may have your expectations set incorrectly? Several of us would cut a finger off for a world series win around here.
Hah. At one point I thought Maddon was considered new school, playing the analytic game and what Bell was committed to.
Theres a list of about 6-8 names that would be vast improvement and create optimism and enthusiasm for us heading into 25. Even though tonight is not the night for this..the initials DJ should not be on that list
And certainly not B.L.
Hey Jon. Respectfully disagree.
Some good hires (Reds managers) in my lifetime.
Fred Hutchinson. Dave Bristol. Sparky Anderson. Pete Rose. Lou Piniella. Davey Johnson. Jack McKeon. Dusty Baker. To name a few.
Only Rose had prior ties to the Reds.
Didn’t Bristol come through the Reds system?
My bad. I noticed that after I posted my comment. I can’t edit it.
I think Bell is exactly who you think he is. He is just a very mediocre manager. He doesn’t have the personality to elevate everyone, but his players do like him, so guys do play hard for him. If you want to get to the next level you just can’t roll with that. Could the reds just actually build a system? Like teach the same things from the lower levels up and have consistent development? That’s not the big league Manager’s job but it’s so much harder for that guy if you don’t have that in place.
I disagree on the “guys play hard for him”.
The reason players like him was summed up by India: “He doesn’t yell at us.” By extension, and by what we observed on the field, I took that to mean “He doesn’t hold us accountable.” That’s why players played sloppy or lackadaisical, because they knew their “buddy” Bell wouldn’t do anything about it.
David Bell struck me as the kind of person who would do very well managing a team of veterans, because he just “lets you do your own thing”. For a certain type of player, that could work. For a young, developing team like the Reds, that’s a recipe for disaster.
To elevate this team, the Reds need to hire a fiery, no-nonsense taskmaster who will get on players if they are not executing the fundamentals or otherwise not playing up to their potential. David Bell is not that kind of person, but that’s the kind of person the Reds need.
Both things can be true: that the players played hard and that they were not required to be fundamentally sound. And I agree with the Cap’n: fundamentals need to be stressed throughout the system.
Anyone have the citation for that India quote?
I mostly agree with your post but find it interesting that Bell was too lackadaisical, player friendly to a fault which most people would find not good qualities for a MLB manager. Why are there no players that spoke up? None of the coaches? Are all of them just looking for a paycheck and any serious form of winning is a distant second? What about Krall and ownership? Bell’s style has changed little in the six years that he was with the team that I can tell. He recently got a three year extension for his leadership and managerial prowess. How could he be so bad and so wrong for this team for so long? Who should we be spending our time complaining about the most for all this? The guy who cashes the paychecks or the ones signing them. (a hint) The guys who despite telling Reds’ fans “We’re buying the Reds to win. Anything else is unacceptable, ” the Reds have the 22nd most wins during his ownership (record: 1,193–1,297), five winning seasons (tied for 22nd in the league), and are one of only seven teams to fail to make their league’s championship series.
You’re right Doug. My mistake. Girardi took his name out of the running for the job. He was at the top of the Red’s wish list, but said he wanted to spend more time at home.
What were Girardi’s records with the Phil’s upon his return?
132-141. Glad the Reds didn’t hire him. Anybody could have won with the Yankees.
Craig Counsel with a string of division titles with Brewers. He’s now a highly paid manager with a barely above .500 record whose team was basically out of it same time as were the Reds.
I say let the players manage themselves, then fire the manager(s) when they don’t perform.
The timing seems odd for sure. On the other hand it may send a message to the players, while they are still together, that this season was not acceptable and things need to change. That message may not have the same affect after the season ends and they are scattered. Players know they carry the majority of the responsibility for wins and losses, and when a manager is fired much of that is on them. It’s all speculation, of course. The timing could very well be due to reasons mentioned above: Bell was informed he would not be back next year and decided to leave now, or the criteria for returning was a winning record and that is now not possible.
I really feel like that is what probably happened. Bell was like, why would I stay for another week when you have no intention of keeping me past that. I know I would just leave too if I were put in that situation.
So, Jim Walker noted earlier today on one of the threads that it seemed odd for Jay Bruce to be front row Diamond seats today and he wondered if something was up?
Jim??
Bring back 2012. Manager Scott Rolen. Hitting Coach Joey Votto. Bench Coach Jay Bruce. Pitching Coach Johnny Cueto. ha.
Some other people that I’ve met were also at the game today. They likely had as much to do with what happened as Bruce did.
All I am going to say at this point is that I would be no more than mildly surprised if it turns out the Bell announcement was made tonight because the new manager will be introduced at the Monday presser. Aside from the new person NOT being Jay Bruce, I have no idea who it might be. I know who would cause as big of a stir as the return of Pete Rose to manage the Reds but that is too improbable to even imagine.
Jim, you’re not talking about another beloved former Red with zero managing experience are you? 🙂
NOT Jay Bruce, Jim? I read a really credible rumor to the contrary on this very thread….
@Daytonnati>>> You must be thinking of “The Mayor”, Sean Casey! 😉
@Jim Oooooo… Sean Casey I would actually really like that.
Wow, surprising timing to fire Bell with 5 games left. I think as someone mentioned he probably got word this was going to happen, and maybe a discussion was had to let him know he could finish the last 5 games or not. I don’t blame him for not wanting to stay around.
I think this move should have been made a while back which makes me question Krall’s overall judgment. Just a strange and concerning last couple months with the roster management, the injuries. I think it’s all been handled not very well.
Even the way Bell is let go here, just speaks to me of uncertainty in the front office.
And still they are at 76 wins, not good, but not awful, a team/organization with some changes that could be a playoff contender. But a lot of teams could say that as well.
I do think the pressure from outside voices, maybe former players, and fans did finally get Krall and the Reds to make a change.
For Bell, he obviously has a lot of experience in the game and maybe will be able to catch on with a team I would assume in some position if desires.
Unless they do introduce the new person at the Monday presser, I’m guessing you may be correct Jeremiah that Bell got wind of what was going down through the Reds putting out flyers for availability or an internal leak that the decision had been made.
The other possibility is that he was told of the decision but offered the opportunity to finish out the season and call it a mutual parting but declined.
I think firing him now doesn’t let any interim manager have time to do well. If they are set hiring outside for someone new and the interim guy goes 40-16 over 56 games then the pressure is there to keep him on. Benevides could go 5-0 and no one will be saying hire him.
I don’t want to discuss Bell’s managing prowess…pro or against… I just want to say that he definitely had his player’s backs. He was a fierce competitor, an articulate and careful orator, and obviously a very intelligent man. I hope he gets the team that can work for him somewhere and that he succeeds.
Agree 100 percent!
Wow. I would suspect there could be a top down review of all levels in the organization. If we really evaluate all players in the organization how many improved in 2024. I think the number would be less than 15. The AA team may have had the worst winning percentage in all of the minor leagues.
Right on!
Yeah!
(*In case any of you didn’t know how I’d feel!)
See Melvin’s comments above…nailed it Melvin
1) Great news! Wish Bell the best
2) LDS
3) I have some optimism and enthusiasm again
4) Bizarre timing
5) Get a manager who is a winner
6) This will probably be a record breaking thread
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb/reds/2024/09/22/reds-next-manager-candidates-mlb/75343658007/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawFdyq9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHaK6O_KnJkVsr9yb5YL_17PE5mIskrwERHALyslId9EVvZFCkVKBPpW6bg_aem_WmJH7KssUfJ_R56Ja-GYQw Enquirer speculation.
Some solid candidates.
I like Will Venable as a candidate. I hiked Camelback Mountain in spring training one year with some guys who grew up with him, so I’ve kinda followed him a bit since then. He was still playing in those days — he’s only 41 years old.
He’s a Princeton graduate from California, with two years as head assistant to Bruce Bochy. The Cardinals may be looking at him, too.
I’m in.
I like that he studied under some very successful managers.
Great day to be a Reds fan again. Not because I take joy in someone losing their job, but because it shows its still possible someone still cares in that front office. We could all pick at Bell’s little quirks but reality is simply didnt get the job done. He never captured our imaginations. He never had his club overcome adversity and pull greatness out of them. If he had a good roster he would get you to .500 or a couple games over. With an average roster he would be a few games under .500. With a bad toster he wpuld lose close to 100.
This is a step in the right direction. At least them seeing enough to where they will fire him with years left on his deal makes me feel like Im not in a twilight zone episode.
When Bell had “good” rosters, they still had serious holes: for several years a historically bad bullpen. I can’t think of a successful modern team with a bad pen. Overcoming that particular adversity without good new players is beyond difficult. The injuries to key players generally have been crippling. An organization that will address the problem by, again, bringing in good players has a chance. Bell has his faults and the firing was probably inevitable, but there was a lot more than Bell’s faults to blame for those pretty good teams falling short.
Personally I’ll be much more interested in what players they add than what manager. Maybe they think this satisfies fans for another year so they can just bottom feed again
Yup! Seems like those between the lines get’ter done … or, not! Seems like they now have 5-6 major league caliber position players. That’ll getcha about 78 Ws per season!
Maybe the Cardinals will hire Bell and win with him. Them, or any other team–if Bell manages again and has success…
Music to my ears!
Now fire Krall or he’ll hire another analytical nerd that can’t cherry pick parts of that methodology and merge it with logical common sense baseball.
It’s a crucial point with where we are with the arbitration clock ticking with our young core of talent.
I believe that Bell should have been let go. How much of the Reds poor performance is his fault is debatable. The injuries have been debilitating and poor front office choices in the offseason didn’t help the team. Still, they have not been a winning team and he bears part of the responsibility and can easily be let go.
Still with five days remaining this seems classless. Why not two months ago or after the last game of this season? Hopefully they not only let him go, but work to improve the team in the off season.
Donnie Ecker for me.
I don’t know. I would say Bell is the tenth problem for the reds. the first 9 problems were on display today. and that is the 8 position players and dh who just can’t hit good pitching. that has been the main problem for the reds for many years now. Bell could have put any line up out there today. the defense and baserunning could have been perfect and we still would have lost the game. we can talk fundamentals and defense and good base running all we want but if you can’t hit you are not going to win a ton of games and I don’t really know what Bell could do about that.
We talk about the Big Red Machine and Sparky all the time. watch old highlights, they made base running blunders all the time. they made a ton of errors as well. It really didn’t matter because they were so good on offense those mistakes were easily erased. if you are only scoring a few runs a game every little mistake gets exposed and the manager takes the fall i guess.
I don’t know, I do feel bad for Bell. I feel bad for the next sorry soul who will take over as manager of yet another weak hitting reds team. But mostly i feel bad for us long standing suffering reds fans
The BRM had GG at C, 2B, SS, and CF throughout the mid 1970s. They didn’t make a ton of errors or lots of base running mistakes. Their offense was great but their pitching and defense were very good, too.
Bench, Concepcion, Morgan, and Geronimo were all gold glove winners the same four years in a row from 74-77. It’s a truly amazing part of the Big Red Machine that’s often overlooked in history.
They were #1 in fielding % in both 1975 and 1976.
Judging from Skene’s record and stats, nobody hits his pitching.
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/jason-williams/2024/09/23/reds-next-manager-candidates-david-bell-fired/75343569007/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawFd5bdleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHdPagnSfFd4nR4aP0M6f90p_PMTiTUXArUKwqOA6yy_v_skcPHBKH0Wv5g_aem_2WO1SSwMtrjFNNW0fCuwOQ Terry Francona is intriguing if his health is good.
I would not want Francona. I think he’s done being actively involved in baseball due to health reasons.
Francona would at least be a proven winner. If he’s in good health I would be interested.
Agree!
I’ll admit, I’m shocked. I thought the Reds were perfectly happy to continue to be mediocre for the remainder of Bell’s contract and didn’t care about the results on the field as long as the money kept rolling in. Very surprising.
That said, as much as I didn’t like Bell and didn’t think he was the right fit for this young Reds team, I really hope the Reds have a real knockout pick lined up to replace him.
As always, when you change leadership in a sports franchise, the Reds now sit at a crossroads. Let’s hope they choose the right path this time.
Why in the world are any of you shocked? Look at his record and his seat has seemed hot for some time. Are you only shocked because you bought so into the negative thinking that you were blind to the possibility an average to below average manager might lose his job? Not even mentioning the lack of job security for those positions, I’m just assuming that was ignored.
Agreed I hope they choose a winning path. I’m hoping its not a dinosaur everyone around here is intially comfortable with before actually seeing him manage on the field. Because that’s the kind of ‘stuff’ I actually expect from this organization.
It’s shocking because the Reds have shown no indication to this point that they cared about the product on the field. It’s also shocking that they would eat Bell’s contract.
So yeah, I’m shocked.
Why is it shocking that they would eat Bell’s contract? They ate Moustakas’s contract. They ate Akiyama’s contract. They ate Wil Myers’ contract, plus a few others. All of them were much bigger than Bell’s contract.
The ownership group is comprised of people who’ve made a ton of money in business. They weren’t going to hesitate eating .5% of revenue, if they thought it would pay for itself.
I guess that’s the thing, Old Big Ed, is that I’m surprised that the front office reached the conclusion that getting rid of a company “yes man” like Bell would actually be better for business than keeping him.
Like I said, this ownership group has shown no indication they cared at all about the product on the field and seemed value having a mediocre manager who didn’t rock the boat lead the team. I’m surprised they wouldn’t just let him play out his contract.
Since your assumptions were so incorrect, do you not think this an opportunity to learn a lesson from those false assumptions?
Managers are often fired because the team won’t or can’t fire everybody else, and they need the appearance of being proactive. A new manager may well help, but without changes throughout the system and without real solutions to roster weaknesses, the team will not improve enough to make any of us happy.
THIS!
I forsee a couple of managers “removing their names from consideration” before being interviewed (or after). They’ll want to know that the GM will be given increased payroll and be looking to add hitters that actually HIT the ball. Fielders that are at least adequate if not gold glove material, etc.
We’re going to end up with a retread loser coach I am thinking, the one that will actually sign for a bottom five paying contract….the desperate to get back into the game candidate.
I don’t know what to think of Krall, did he choose the career mediocre Candeleiro or was that forced on him by upper MGMT? Is he THAT bad at scouting and reviewing scouting reports? Jeimer has ability, but not 3/45 ability and we all knew this. Career mediocre, with one good half a seson in 2023 and Reds overpaid.
I guess, Krall needs to go regardless. If he is a patsy that would sign off on a bad signing, then he should go. If he chose these few bad signings, then he needs to go.
Sadly, the GM will also be the best mix of desperate and affordable (another retread that failed previously).
Until the Castellini’s are GONE, the Reds will suck. They just DON’T CARE about on the field. They want to save, save, save and watch their franchise valuation climb, climb, climb. Sadly, nothing can stop horrible owners from being horrible. Phil or Bob are laughing at all of us “fans” for being chumps. Stinks, but its reality.
In before y’all turn on the next manager
People will at least give the new manager a chance until his hiring announcement.
I would hope so. But once the games start being played….
Right up until he/she signs and we find out they’re paid the lowest in MLB and only signed when offered cheese of the month membership for a year.
We’ll know then that a “Fire the new managers…whats’ his/her name, can’t remember”.
It was time. There’s been plenty of good arguments for and against, but it was time. Perhaps there are other shoes to drop in the near offseason. Hopefully the team has committed themselves to a rigorous internal review and some honest self-assessment.
I believe we will learn a lot about this period of Reds teams based on Bell’s future performance, should he get another shot somewhere else. Unfortunately, that lesson will come too late to help this core win. Here’s looking forward to 2025.
Time to offer Joey Votto the keys to the clubhouse and give him a lifetime coaching contract offer he can’t refuse! Votto or die
Coach yes.
Manager no.
JDV as a hitting coach maybe! As a manager, NO!
I would be ok with Votto being the Hitting Coach on the team.
This was a good decision. I will give the GM another year to get this team to the playoffs. Bell was a weak manager for a team that should have made the playoffs this year. I have regained some confidence in the GM with this move.
The last playoff spot is 87-69 currently. No way are the Reds getting there even if Bell was perfect. Way too many injuries and holes. I’m a Fraley fan, but you can’t have a regular OFer in the middle of your lineup most of the year hitting 5 HRs in a bandbox. Our high leverage guys are also mediocre.
+1000000, Indy.
Agree, 100% correct Indy
The entire OF is awful…and DH. Injuries didn’t help. A healthy Friedl would have at least had an above average hitting CF. But no excuse to keep Fraley or Benson or any of these below average hitters. Until they cut the worst of the hitters and sign ONE above average corner OF, we ain’t putting fear in any contenders…barely a miraculous run of healthy in our starting rotation (highly unlikely).
We need at least one Arraez or Kwan some type that can put the ball in play and get on base and make pitchers work. A low K type, even if power is almost non-existent. The same trouble with the Reds that has existed the past 30 years. Too many .200 hitters with high K rates and not enough doubles/homers/walks to make up for it.
The Reds need to look for some free agents who have a proven record on hitting good pitching. That said, I look for some of these young players to improve in hitting the better pitchers.
Yep, working counts, making pitchers work and LOW K rates. That shold be the focus. They also need to cut/trade the WORST offenders for low pitching counts and high K rates. EDLC obviously stays (or traded for mega-haul, but I hope he can gradually lower his K rate with a DECENT hitting coach).
I’m worried about LDS. The dog caught the car so now what does he do?
Lies in wait for the next car. He’ll be okay.
Never underestimate me IRM. If the Reds do something dumb like hire Larkin or decide to give Benevaides the job, I won’t lack things I object to. And we still have to see Krall’s off season moves. If they get serious about winning, then I’ll be just like the rest of you cheering them on. If they continue to be cheap and clueless, that’s something else altogether.
Different sports but the UC Bearcats promoted internally in their heyday.
George Smith bumped up to AD, Ed Jucker promoted. 2 NCAA titles and 3 NC games in a row.
Jucker retired (then went to Royals), Tay Baker promoted. Good but not UC good.
The Reds need to break up the old boy’s club further. An established manager from outside the organization is my preference. No Larkins, or other former players UNLESS they have established credentials elsewhere, e.g., Ross. It’s time to establish a winning culture, from top to bottom.
James Madison just hung 70 on North Carolina and that’s after their head coach left for Indiana with several of their top. You build a culture of competing hard & smart and good things happen
Now the question becomes why did they give him an extension last year after losing 100 games the year before. Hopefully, Nick Krall is the next one to be fired.
That’s exactly the question everyone should be asking.
Possibly because they recognized that they’d traded the proven talent for prospects and they thought that Bell would be good with them. He can make some argument that he has, too.
We need a trainer more than a manager, pitchers can’t stay healthy. Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft… Keep playing the same broken record. Every year they are on IR.
I don’t think the trainer had much to do with Greene’s bruising his elbow on his kitchen cabinet at home. At least I hope not.
I think Bell did a lot of things better than a replacement level manager would do – mainly in player development. But my issue with bell came down to 2 related things – defense and fundamental base running. In both cases, the Reds were ranked at the bottom. These two skills respond well to hard work and practice. And these two areas hurt the Reds significantly in 2024. And these are two areas David Bell could directly influence.
A second area where the team struggled was situational hitting and this has been an issue for a long time.
I hope the Reds close these gaps.
While I agree with those things, I think bullpen management was his biggest flaw.
Mmmm, I think apparently tolerating poor fundamentals was his worst fault. The pen has generally performed pretty well. Of course there have been meltdowns, but unless you’ve got Mariano Riviera and Dennis Eckersley and John Smoltz, you assume that will happen.
Source? What metric has them ranked at the bottom for baserunning, any i’ve seen has them near the top.
Counting stats that say they led in outs on the basepaths ignore how many opportunities they created and also ignores when those worked. So what you got other than that?
Bell’s lineups were often strange. Understatement of the past six years. He was always tardy making obvious changes plus favored players who consistently underperformed. Will Benson! Inexcuseable he continued to get PT under Bell.
I’ve been on my soapbox for over year pounding the dias for Terry Francona. Glad to see he’s mentioned as a possible candidate.
However, a new Manager is only a fraction of our feckless management. Ownership is incompetent which is a deep rooted challenge to overcome.
With all due respect to AI and Alexa…one resume requirement of our next manager SHOULD be that he watched the 76 Reds or 90 Reds either live or on TV … while getting ready for his HIGH SCHOOL HOMECOMING date. Gotta be old school vet with this group please
Christmas in September. And they didn’t bump him to the front office. Let’s hope they go for an experienced manager with a record of success. Maybe Phil is moving to show that he can build the winner his dad never did. Or Krall was told to fix things or he’s out. I like the speculation that the new manager would be announced at today’s presser. Would be weird timing but then weird timing seems to be a Reds pattern.
“Would be weird timing but then weird timing seems to be a Reds pattern.”
Yeah haha
Pressure must be getting to owner/GM, so they fire the manager to pacify the fans. If they have a serious off season where they sign Soto and a 2 stud relievers, I’ll be more excited. Bell was meh, but not the primary reason they had a losing record this year imo. I do hope their young talent appeals to some better candidates this time around.
Had some hopes with Krall quietly beating the drum with his “consistency” themes and so on but this was rather shocking. Nice and short statement from Krall. Have no idea who would be a good replacement for Bell but I give the powers that be the benefit of the doubt since they were bold enough to make this move and must clearly realize what he don’t need in a manager after 6 years of pondering.
With this my fandom, which sharply declined after last year’s “contract” announcement, will rejuvenate greatly for next season. I will have to retire the “DataDumpster” moniker however, since its purpose has now been served and is no longer relevant. That I will be pondering.
It was time for a change. I still believe you can have best team and still lose. Bochey of the Rangers this year. Blue Jay’s manager, Council didn’t save the Cubs. Upper management didn’t give Bell the players he needed to won. One year a crappy bullpen, another year injuries and and injuries this year with no real plan to replace the injured. Players win or lose games. Managers don’t hit or pitch.
Me saying all that, two issues for me was the bullpen moves and the over aggressive style of running and lack of fielding.
If Upper management doesn’t bring a solid hitter or two and a power hitting outfielder and sticks with status quo. Well… I still question the timing as rather odd. Sorry if this was all over the place.
We’ll this was overdue. I don’t dislike Bell, but results are what the results are. I think Bell is a fine manager, but he shouldn’t be managing a young rebuilding team. Honestly, I doubt he’s happy about the fact that the team hired him in rebuild, only to rebuild again during his tenure.
Let’s get a mgr. with some success under his belt, and not another unknown, or Reds related mgr.
Reds ownership was seeing a rise in attendance and prominence. Elly is a national star, Greene is an ace of the future and he’s got a lot of other young prospects under team control forever.
The firing makes sense from the standpoint of trying to trick the new or newly re-committed fans that they won’t tolerate regression.
I never liked Bell but the timing and circumstances seem suspect.
My guess is the timing and circumstances were that the decision had been made and either Bell found out about it via a third party; or, the organization was trying to negotiate an amicable “mutual” parting and that fell through, leaving the team no option but to go on and announce it post haste.
Questions I hope to hear today—
1. (assuming Phil Castellini is a no show) Why isn’t ownership here today?
2. Did you need permission from ownership to fire Bell?
3. Will there be a bump in payroll to support the new manager?
4. Will he have final say on his coaching staff?
5. In these last few days before players scatter, will you be conducting one on ones to solicit their feedback about areas that need to be addressed?
6. Is the issue simply on field performance by the big club, or are there systemic issues that go beyond the manager? If yes, how will you address those issues?
Sultan>>
If #2 is yes, 2b follow up. Who gave you the OK? Bob or Phil? If Bob, did you speak with him directly?
I like these questions!
But I envision this from Jim Day: “Having a promising young team in place, what do you feel the qualities are in the next Red’s manager?”
Asking a question without asking a question. Allowing the GM to use a “coach-speak” answer.
1. PC being a no-show could point to organizational learning. His public mic time has been nightmarish to date.
2. Yes, firings of this magnitude require top leadership approval in almost every organization. I’m curious why you doubt that.
3. That question may get answered vaguely, but a precise answer is information that must be kept internally.
4. Good question, but it is most likely the manager is actively involved, but the decisions are made collectively. We have beaten the club up for its perpetual cronyism, I don’t think allowing the manager to practice cronyism is a good practice.
5. Softball question. Of course they will talk to several players.
6. This is the million dollar question.
7. The other question relates to timing of the firing and his extension last summer. The latter is now an acknowledged mistake. The former indicates potential internal conflict.
Great questions Sultan I would add one more.
7. Why was David Bell given a three year extension after he lost 100 games the year before?
Krall answered that question. Paraphrasing, he thought Bell did well integrating the new players into the team and things were headed in the right direction.
I do wonder if the timing of this announcement and the end of Louisville’s season are related. Maybe the FO is thinking about Pat Kelly.
Hiring a 69-year-old Pat Kelly after he’s been in the organization for 18 years and never really been considered before then would be the ultimate Cincinnati Reds hire.
No. They’re hiring Jay Bruce. The delay is simply to build excitement.
That would be yet another fail.
A manager with no experience would be a complete failure.
Sarcasm flies right over the heads of some apparently
Hard to judge before we see how the team does. Should be, anyway, for people who identify themselves as results oriented.
It does, VaRedsFan. It’s scarcely a lost art…Jay will have a Herculean task making believers of some of us.
Rosencrans wrote an article on the Athletic on Oct 22 2018 on how the Reds whittled down the 90 candidates before selecting Bell. Here is a snippet from it
“The timing – and the decision to stick with holding a full search despite some outside pressure to hire interim manager Jim Riggleman full-time – allowed the Reds to jump on the interview process as soon as the season ended. That last week of the season, the Reds had asked for permission to interview candidates and even schedule travel plans. ”
And here we are on the last week of the season, again.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/606670/2018/10/22/how-the-reds-whittled-90-names-for-manager-down-to-david-bell/&ved=2ahUKEwib4PbsndmIAxUzhIkEHefrCzw4FBAWegQIIxAB&usg=AOvVaw0t0nqXCyn0ncStysATL2KK
Long overdue and strange timing but I imagine Bell got wind of what was going to happen and said goodby before the road trip. I wish David Bell well and feel he’s more a front office type guy. It points to an interesting offseason for us Reds fans.
The Reds need a “Bulldog Prosecutor” type of manager, that goes on the attack to win, and is prepared and proactive.
Bell to me seemed like a defense attorney that just objected to everything to get held in contempt, just to prove a point. Way too reactive with his lineups, bullpen, etc.
This team’s future is brighter than it has been since I can remember, but it still needs someone at the helm doing whatever it takes to win, and being prepared to do so.
If necessity is the mother of invention, it seemed like Bell was tuning the knobs all season to find the station he was wanting to hear.
I wish him the best, though. It’s never easy having a job where your performance is reviewed every night before you go home.
Don’t feel too sorry for him. He’s still getting paid for two years for doing nothing.
I will never relish in another’s misfortune. Money does not heal all wounds … unless you were head football coach at Texas A&M.
Krall just finished his press conference. Decision was made yesterday, process is just starting today on hiring next manager. Said 10 different times the process is just starting. Biggest issue that led to firing was the inconsistency of the Reds on the field.
Didn’t listen to the conference, but wonder if a .500 season was a condition set before the season, and negotiating the exit simply didn’t work out. There’s some merit to getting a head start on the competition, which goes to the “process is just starting” comment, and we’ll see if there are obvious lineup changes this week, which speaks to the “philosophical” and “inconsistency” comments.
It had to be done, so the sooner the better, but in a few weeks the timing will be irrelevant. Ownership and structure issues still carry much greater importance.
Bob did that once proclaiming “The losing stops now!” I don’t think I would find it all that reassuring at this point.
Sorry Optimist that was a reply to Don below. Thanks
Not long ago, Krall just said he has a contract but little else when asked about Bell. So, did we incorrectly assume that Bell had a guaranteed 3 year contract or was it just two years with “other conditions specified?” Savvy move, in my opinion, if that was the case and altogether typical for something this ownership would do.
Castellini isn’g going to fire himself. Someone had to take the fall.
Bell may have had issues, but the success of an organization is only as good as organizational leadership. Unless Freddy Benavides is awarded the full time gig, which is highly unlikely, the Reds will be on their seventh manager since Castellini took over, and yet the Reds have lost 123 more games than they won during his tenure. I’d love to see Bob pop out from hiding, address the fan base, and recommit himself to fielding a winning team. The odds of that happening would be about as high as George Foster coming out of retirement, however.
I agree with the inconsistency. I’m not a Bell fan. but no need for negative comments. Let’s move on. GO REDS!
My goodness the Nick Krall presser was actually a source of optimism that the hire could actually be a proven legit old school candidate. When u here names asked about like Francona and Larkin that he didn’t dismiss immediately at not what were looking for…was VERY encouraging. What a glorious day. Cap it off please at Paycor later on too. Why not give us Cincinnati fans something happy
Larkin would be awful. They need to go outside the Reds organization. Incestual type hiring has got the Reds in this mess.
Agree on no Larkin….he’d be a better coach than a manger IMO
By looking in depth at every part of the roster and the game, seems there’s a lot of work to do excluding perhaps starting pitching and the infield. Backup catcher, 3/5 of the outfield, half the bullpen, base running skills and defense should be the offseason priorities. It’ll be hardly addressed.
Krall said he didn’t yet have a list so lets give him one in no necessity order . ..Larkin..Francona..Showalter (assuming they are interested Ask em)…Boone (if hes fired)…Servais…imho those are top 5. The next tier list…Schumacher…Ross… If we don’t have a hire after those 7… Kelly and Girardi make up the starting 9. Goodness its not that hard to compile a list. These 9 names are obvious . Anyone else seems were back to 79-83 levels
Other than Francona, retreads that have been released from better situations than the one they are coming into? And failed?
No thanks.
They fired their infield coach too Pickler.
I think the Larkin hire would a interesting one as I would almost guarantee Eric Davis would become his hitting coach.
The days of ” old school” in your face manager’s isn’t going to fly with this generation of baseball players.
Krall trading away Montas didn’t help, nor not replacing Matt Mclain didn’t help. While it was time for Bell to go, it goes deeper all way the way to the Owners!!!
What has Larkin said or done that makes you think he would be a good manager?
The guy actually said “ The Reds should sign Kevin Newman to a long term contract and make him the team captain.”
I don’t want Barry Larkin in the broadcasting booth, let alone manager of the Reds.
Just my opinion on the matter. Newman is having a solid year in AZ, and wasn’t bad for the Reds. Larkin knows defense and being a 3 time gold glove winner he can help improve the defense. A different voice..
He also wanted Kyle Farmer to be captain.
Larkin is a STRONG NO.
Judging from Skene’s record and stats, nobody hits his pitching.
Didn’t Krall get Junis for Montas? That looks like a good trade for the Reds.
He did and he has been way better than Montas.
Please not.. Kapler..DJ ..cairo…eduardo or some other unproven learn on job type. WIN NOW
You mean no one like Vogt in Cleveland, one year as a MLB coach no experience as a MLB manager.
After 1969, the Reds looked into hiring some white-haired guy named Sparky Anderson, who had never managed in MLB. Fortunately, they thought better of it.
The Dodgers almost made the same blunder in 2016 by hiring Dave Roberts. They may not have won 8 of 9 NL West championships if they had hired Roberts.
And now we can begin the therapy session where we place two moments from 2023 into a mental dumpster: 1) the Reds signing Bell to an extension and 2) the Reds signing a mediocre left-side infielder (instead of a badly-needed outfielder) to a $45M contract.
Story just broke on Martinez
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/09/reds-rumors-nick-martinez-opt-out-extension-re-sign.html
Offer him $54 Million over three years.
Sounds like my take on this is similar to a lot of other folks on RLN. I think Bell was an ok manager, and was not the main reason for the club’s failures. That said, the Reds did not meet preseason expectations this year, and usually the manager takes the fall for that. Just the way professional sports work.
I will say though, take any manager that most people feel is a “winner” and put him in charge of the team this year, and the team is still watching the playoffs on TV like the rest of us. Just too many injuries to compete over the course of an entire season.
In the end, I think we can all agree that the biggest problem is ownership. The team has got to spend some money or it’s not going to matter who they hire.
You don’t have to spend money like a drunk sailor.
Cleveland has a lower payroll than the Reds.
Defense doesn’t generally cost a ton of money, and Cleveland is a strong defensive club. But they also have Jose Ramirez, and he is the sort of hitter who can carry a team. Elly may become one, so might McLain or CES, but right now the Reds have nobody like that and acquiring one will be expensive.
Below is a link to Krall’s press conference.
https://www.wlwt.com/article/reds-give-the-ax-to-manager-david-bell/62325311
To me his press conference was more of the same. He kept repeating the same thing over and over. Maybe he will step down.
He’s certainly not smooth, substantively, what did he say that you didn’t like? Some of the questions we repetitive which leads to the same answer.
The big question, why are players showing up in the majors with poor fundamentals wasn’t asked. But the other questions raised in the comments on this post were asked and mostly answered.
“Give the ax” lol, media outlets with questionable spelling for 100
Late commenting on the Bell firing! Just got released from the ER! This 71 year old heart couldn’t stand the shock!
Seriously though, I have sympathy for anyone who loses their job! But, MLB managers are hired to be fired! In all honesty, while not being a fan of Bell, he did the best he could with the personnel he was given plus dealing with all the injuries, especially the injuries of the starting pitchers!
Agree with Doug and others on this site that the timing of Bell’s firing seems odd! Why not wait until next Monday!
Hope the Reds find a manager that can take the 2025 team to the next level!
I thought Krall’s explanation about the timing made sense. He said the decision had been made during the day on Saturday; and, he decided to go forward with telling Bell to give them the week’s head start on the replacement process. I’d guess implicit in that was Krall might have been concerned about leaks either internally or if they started sending out any sort of feelers through agents.
It did make sense. The decision wasn’t going to change in a week and this gives the Reds a head start on contacting their preferred candidate(s).
Somewhat off topic. The first choice of Bob Howsam to manage the Reds in 1970 was Charlie Metro. He had managed for Howsam in STL MiLB and was a special for the Reds in 1967 and 1968 before going to KCR.
Metro wasn’t interested for whatever reason(s). Whew.
Marge Schott wanted Dallas Green to manage the Reds in 1990 but they couldn’t agree on terms. The GM suggested Lou Piniella instead.
Another whew.
And I hope all went well at the ER. Been there a couple of times myself in the last year to 18 months.
Hold My Beer. A year ago today, I was in a coma at St Elizabeth Hospital ER in Florence. PRES from high BP. Coma for a week. IC for another week. Rehab for 12 days. Back in the green side of the dirt for one year today.
Stay healthy. Stay positive guys. 🙂
I’m very glad you guys are all okay. Dennis: I took it that you were kidding. I hope that’s true.
Wishing good health to everyone, glad youre greenside still Oldtimer
First thing I asked when I came out of coma was Did Reds Make Playoffs?
Yes, I was kidding! But like Oldtimer, I too have high BP and recovered from a stroke back in early 2019! Being a diehard Reds fan is hard on us old guys! Still hoping to stay on the green side of the turf long enough to see the Reds in the playoffs in the near future!
I can’t believe my wish came true!!!! I didn’t expect it to happen before the season ended. Did Bell get in an argument with the GM about something? Anyway, I can’t be happier. The team needed a new direction. Here is a list of things that drove me nuts while Bell was manager
– His ho hum approach to the players making mistakes and not being held accountable.
– His monotone approach and no energy in both interviews and running the team in general.
– The Lineups often made little sense.
– Playing time – Let guys play when they are doing well and sit them when they are not doing well.
– Running the pitching staff – If a guy is pitching well let him stay in for full innings or another inning. Pitch counts are not everything. You can tell when a guy is getting tired because they lose their control on pitches. Plus the fact that guys can go more than one inning out of the bullpen.
The team needed new leadership, and I believe we will see new coaches probably too with a new manager coming in. I would be ok with giving Skip Shoemaker a chance to run the reds. I am sure there will be others though who will get interviewed. I would love to see Jeff Brantley interview, I am sure there will be a few other internal people who get interviews but really hoping they go outside the organization.
Agree completely with this. Not to mention giving a player a day off when he finally gets hot because of Bells pre planned lineup cards. And bringing in the most struggling relievers in high leverage situations which Bell did for 6 years. The bizzare lineups and most of all the complete lack of fundamentals which really stood out this year because they happened virtually every game. Bells bland response after every game was the young players were learning and everything is fine. No Mr Bell, everything was not fine and he got what he deserved! I’m already excited and hopeful for next year. I too hope they bring in an experienced manager who will stress fundamentals and hold players accountable which Bell never did!
Woof, not a fan of that list at all, just a bunch of common fan tropes. Yuck if you ask me, why in the world is charisma in a pressor a requirement for people? Im far more concerned with on the field stuff
For those who were speculating this would break the RN record for comments…. it’s not even half way there. No, this is not a challenge. But I would be shocked if it got anywhere near the record.
Doug, what topic holds the record?
Inquiring minds want to know…
I’d guess an extra inning game thread with a lot of scoring.
729 comments. A game thread last year for a sort-of doubleheader.
https://www.redlegnation.com/2023/07/18/san-francisco-giants-vs-cincinnati-reds-july-18-2023/
And just to add – there’s another one with 521 comments, another at 493, another at 469, and five others over the 400 mark. All from last year except one. All game threads except one – the Jeimer Candelario signing.
Thanks Doug!
“All game threads except one – the Jeimer Candelario signing.”
Maybe we can set a record for non game threads.
Hire Joey Votto please
It ain’t over yet. 😉
Have to catch up on everyone’s comments. Larkin. That’s it. If he wants it. If not, I don’t really care.
Before anyone talks about inexperience, that is essentially not even a thing anymore. MLB management is predominantly about managing egos and personalities. There is not anybody on the team that can say they have more impact than Larkin did for us.
Larkin is the face of the Reds. Make him the management. The pitching is now there. We need help on defense and in the pen. And perhaps a power corner OF.
We particularly now need to look at our strength and conditioning team. We need to look at off-season workouts for pitchers and McLain. The injuries this year were ridiculous. It is way beyond bad luck.
We have the super star. We have the All-Star pitcher. We have a young team that now has some experience. Go for it, Castellini. Or sell and let someone else do it. Baseball is not about making money. It’s about trying to win a championship for your city. There are billion other businesses to get into if you are worried about profits.
Just now getting around to commenting after seeing it earlier.
Decision is not all that surprising. I think most of us are aligned on that point.
Timing is a real head-scratcher with only 5 to go. It won’t really change anything, as Freddie B. will stick with a similar game plan. I seriously doubt he’s up for consideration.
Haven’t listened to Krall’s comments yet, but I will. Bigger question for me is who do they get and how much difference the change makes given it’s offseason timing.
At least we’ve got something to talk about on an off day, right? 😀
We have some hope in the off season. 😉
I’m seeing comments about going with Bruce, Larkin, Votto, Davis, etc., etc. Let’s hope they aim higher. Bringing back the stars of the past doesn’t necessarily move the team forward or recapture those glory days. If it did, go back and get Perez or Bench and go the distance. Hopefully, the next manager is experienced and has a track record of player development and a winning MLB managing record.
And what do all managers with winning records–“proven” winners–have in common? Good rosters. When those same managers have weak rosters, they don’t win. I’ll believe that this is more than simple scapegoating when the Reds shore up the roster weaknesses with good players.
Joe Torre had a mediocre record until he got Jeter, Bernie, Pettite, Mariano, etc., and then became a Hall of Famer.
But that doesn’t mean that Bell was the guy to get the Reds to the promised land. I don’t think it was “scapegoating.” They just thought that they could get someone who could do better.
@Greenmtred, you can’t ignore the in game performance, the failures at fundamentals, base running, lineup selection, bullpen usage, etc. Those were all within his control, regardless of the roster. It’s not scapegoating. It’s finally facing reality.
I’m not really disagreeing with either of you: the “scapegoating” allusion was conditional: if they don’t take the necessary steps to materially improve the roster, it’s going to be hard to argue that firing Bell was anything else. I agree that a new manager who insisted on better fundamental play could make some difference, and if that’s coupled with a substantial reduction in injuries, the Reds could be better. But, as many have noted, they are several players away from challenging seriously for the championship regardless of who is managing them.
I agree LDS. This team needs a manager who has a track record of success. The last thing they should do is hire a former Reds player. They need a voice outside the organization. It baffles me, after the past six years, people are willing to hire a manager just because he once played for the team. That is the absolutely the worst reason to hire someone.
What manager is available that even meets those requirements? Theyre likely hired on somewhere else. Good luck with dreaming i guess.
Alex Cora won it with BOS in 2018.
Bob Brenly did it with ARI in 2001.
Ralph Houk did it with NYY in 1961 but they had a “slightly” better team than we do at this point. 🙂
Point being that Larkin could do wonders. Plus, Castellini owes something like that to the city, the fans, and the team. If it doesn’t work out, Barry would do the right thing. I think it works. He’s a winner at everything he touches.
If you are going to consider low or no experience ex players, pick them with fire, grit, and personal history of playing for winning teams. Like a Scott Rolen. He was a leader on the field by example but also shaped culture/behavior of teammates too. You want an ex Red vibe, drag Brantley out of the booth as a pitching coach too. His pitching IQ and ability to articulate that knowledge are exactly what our young staff needs.
Yes, but can they relate to him. And I like Brantley too, just not sure he is the type to manage a young pitching staff.
I just don’t understand why so many people are willing to turn the job over to someone who has never managed.
I also don’t understand why people want the Reds to hire another former Red. This team desperately needs voices from outside this organization.
They could hire someone from outside the org to be the manager and it’s not going to matter. His boss and that guys boss, and that guys boss are all 16+ year guys in the Reds org. Brad Meador joined the Reds in 2009. Nick Krall in 2002. Phil Castellini and his dad in 2006.
The days of the manager of a baseball team having the kind of say or influence over things to the extent a lot of people think they have or should have died 10-15 years ago in the worst orgs and 20-25 years ago in the best ones.
Thanks Doug. I agree there are bigger problems with the Reds and maybe a new manager will make zero difference. But, this team needs voices from outside the organization.
At Redsfest last year, Ryan Hannigan was discussing catching and he said that after he left the Reds he went to play for Tampa. When he got to Spring Training, the coaches pulled him aside to discuss his catching ERA. He said it was the first time he had heard the term.
Now, this was only one example and it was a long time ago, but it would not surprise me if the Reds are not on the cutting edge of player development. That is a problem you run into when you only hire from within organization.
Totally agree with finding someone from the outside. Where in this organization can you find someone immersed in a winning culture? Actually, since we’re wishing, let’s find at least two someones from the outside (manager and GM).
Krall stated that it was all his decision. I doubt he would have made the move if he didn’t feel the heat coming for his own job. No one is a fan of Phil C. but his promotion may have had some benefits afterall. Krall has been pretty bad himself.
A great story for a team lost in limbo over the last X years? A sensational story? How cool would it be if a certain person was an MVP, a winner of a World Series as a player and a manager. A winner of the Roberto Clemente award. A manager of the year. A local hero – loyal to his city and franchise. Barry Larkin. All of that could be true. If it doesn’t work out, he’d resign. He’s been a class act ever since they drafted him. If he wants it, give him the keys.
The David Bell firing may not cause a record posts on this thread but I’m extremely confident there will be much more traffic on the articles in the off season because of it. 🙂 There will be more enthusiasm.
Stephenson on Bell firing:
https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/cincinnati_reds_catcher_tyler_stephenson_reacts_to_david_bells_firing/s1_17327_40943223?utm_source=mb&utm_medium=email&mb_edition=20240924&mb_loc=right_h
Interesting. His comments appear to be polite and professional, but could also be read to acknowledge that even the players know their collective results should be better with a change in clubhouse culture. I’m encouraged to see that Ty Steve may yet be developing into a serious leader in the dugout. He was my number one extension candidate this offseason already, and this seals the deal.
I pretty much thought the same thing.
Joe Madden on Bell firing:
https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/look_world_series_champion_manager_joe_maddon_weighs_in_on_reds_decision_to_fire_david_bell/s1_17327_40942949?utm_source=mb&utm_medium=email&mb_edition=20240924&mb_loc=right_h
On Skip Schumaker:
https://blogredmachine.com/posts/skip-schumaker-lone-accolade-hardly-ringing-endorsement-become-reds-manager?utm_campaign=FanSided+Daily&utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email&sc=c3a8b03aa4675c74ec4c35e25be58c93e3c61b5ef7e6fc8f70a8923b59647687