A Cincinnati Reds bullpen implosion in the eighth inning allowed the Detroit Tigers to register a 5-3 victory before 31,464 at Great American Ball Park.

Final R H E
Detroit Tigers (41-48) 5 7 0
Cincinnati Reds (42-47)
3 6 1
W: S. Miller (5-6) L: Cruz (3-6) SV: Chafin (1)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

Leading 2-0 entering the eighth, Cincinnati’s normally reliable firemen today played the role of arsonists. Fernando Cruz, Sam Moll and Lucas Sims allowed five runs on four hits and three walks in the inning.

With the Pirates and Cubs already losing today, and the Cardinals down 13-6 to the Nationals in the eighth as this article goes live, Cincinnati’s positioning in the NL Central Division race remains the same — fourth place, 10 games behind Milwaukee, pending their result later tonight against the LA Dodgers. Cincinnati remains five games behind St. Louis in the race for the final NL Wild Card berth.

The Offense

Against the Tigers’ bullpen corps, Cincinnati’s composite hitting box score line was: 6-for-32, 3 walks and 13 strikeouts.

After Detroit starter Alex Faedo and fellow righty Beau Brieske combined to face the minimum number of batters through four full innings, Spencer Steer and Nick Martini drew back-to-back walks from Brieske to start the bottom of the fifth. Tyler Stephenson then followed with this:

After Brieske struck out Noelvi Marte, Tigers Manager A.J. Hinch brought lefty Tyler Holton in to face Will Benson with Stephenson still at second base. David Bell responded by sending Blake Dunn up to hit, which resulted in a strikeout. Stuart Fairchild then walked, bringing up Jonathan India with two men on and two out. India hit a grounder to third which ended the inning.

Steer led off the bottom of the ninth against Tigers closer Jason Lloyd with his 13th homer to pull the Reds within 5-3. A two-out bloop single by Marte brought pinch-hitter Edwin Rios to the plate representing the tying run. Hinch reacted to Bell’s move by bringing on lefthander Andrew Chafin to face Rios, the veteran player just brought up from Louisville yesterday. Bell countered the counter by bringing on Santiago Espinal to pinch-hit for Rios. Espinal struck out swinging on what would have been ball four to end the game.

The Pitching

Cincinnati’s composite box-score pitching line today: 9 innings, 7 hits, 5 walks, 9 strikeouts and 5 runs, all earned.

Starter Hunter Greene set a Cincinnati franchise record by striking out five or more batters in 19 consecutive starts — one more game than previous record-holder Mario Soto. It was part of one of his most impressive outings of the season. In seven full innings, Greene threw 1o4 pitches, 63 of them strikes. He allowed only three singles and two walks, and wasn’t in serious trouble the entire day.

Cruz entered in the eighth. He allowed a one-out double to Parker Meadows, followed immediately by a pinch-hit no-doubter to right by Wenceel Perez to tie the game at 2-2. That was followed by a walk to Matt Vierling, and Bell then replaced Cruz with lefty Moll. Pinch-hitter Andy Ibanez, whose .391 average against lefties is sixth-best in major-league baseball, then also walked. Mark Canha, who came into the at-bat 1 for his last 30, dumped a looper to right for a double, which scored Vierling to give Detroit its first lead of the day.

With the infield playing in, Moll splintered Riley Greene’s bat on a slow roller toward first. Speer whiffed on the pickup of the ball, which allowed Ibanez to score uncontested to make it 4-2 Detroit. Sims then entered to face Carson Kelly, who cracked a double to make it 5-2 Detroit.

Justin Wilson pitched a scoreless top of the ninth.

One Fan’s Thoughts

Every day in Redleg Nation there is much discussion about what is wrong with this team. In the interest of full disclosure, I have to own up to my personal role in all of this. Today’s loss makes it seven consecutive games the Reds have lost in which I have had the duty to write the post-game wrapup article.

There’s been a lot of soul-searching along the way. How is my writing style affecting this team’s hitting, or lack of same? Should I be relegated to writing game wrapups only for my personal use until I prove I can write one that tells a winning story? But you know, if Will Benson gets to keep playing daily despite his current production level, why not me?

If you disagree, feel free to express your objections to Doug Gray via email at DontLetTomAnywhereNearGameWrapups (at) RedlegNation.com.

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

Detroit Tigers at Cincinnati Reds

Sunday, July 7, 1:40 p.m. ET

Tarik Skubal (9-3, 2.45 ERA) vs. Graham Ashcraft (5-4, 5.45 ERA)

110 Responses

    • jmb

      Yes, Cruz blows it again! Shades of earlier in the season. The only difference is that it was Moll instead of Diaz who came and in couldn’t save Cruz.

      • DHud

        Not at all about Cruz, who’s been objectively good this year

        About a team consistently being unable to seize opportunity and take the next step in being a competitive club

        You sweep the Yankees in NY. Then have a juicy 10 game homestand lined up to claw your way into the WC picture going into the ASG

        And what do they do? They soil themselves two straight games out the gate

  1. LDS

    Another loss? Nothing worse than when the Reds reach an easy stretch of their schedule.

    • JB

      Haha and everybody got caught up in it. 7-3 in the next 10!! Lol how many times can they get fooled and keep coming back for more.

      • jmb

        Well, there’s a lot of Bush 43 fans in Cincy, and he couldn’t get the old “fool me once, fool me twice” saying right.

      • LDS

        Bush was likely a better ball player than some of these guys. Beyond that and the fact that he often butchered his words, not much applicability.

  2. Ksdavis

    I guess the Reds may have needed an outfielder in the offseason. After a brief spell of looking like the hitters were coming out of their collective slump the team is back to their season long funk. This organization needs to do some serious soul searching.

  3. Andrew Brewer

    Great outing by Hunter Greene today. The Tigers did to us what we are prone to do to the opposition: They Rallied. We just don’t have enough guns firing to get it done…

  4. Mark Moore

    “Played the role of arsonists” …

    Well written, Tom. That pretty much sums it up. Well, that and our unwillingness/inability to take pitches every so often.

  5. Indy Red Man

    Reds garbage offense manifests itself in other ways. Cruz’s 5th appearance since last Saturday and Moll’s 4th since Sunday. When you rarely blow out teams then your A team out of the pen will get fatigued.
    Stephenson 2 run double & nobody out. Why not bunt him over and raise the batting average for the next guy? Push that run in and keep Sims away from late innings and it’s 4-4. The execution isn’t there, but then it’s not used or emphasized either and that’s Bell. How can the team with the most steals refuse to ever bunt? It’s completely illogical. Lance Lynn….37 and completely out of shape and it’s a day game, but do we even attempt a bunt on him? No…rather get beat 1-0 by the wildcard we’re chasing. I’m skipping Skubals 11 Ks tomorrow in the sweep

    • Tj

      The odds do not favor the bunt. You have a better chance of scoring a run from second base with no out than with a man on third and one out. Ask Brian Kelly

      • Melvin

        Not if your hitters practice are held accountable for situational hitting. Swing away and have fun with every man for himself is the philosophy on this team.

  6. Longtimefan

    You can’t keep winning games with a lack of offense. It will eventually catch up with you especially when your end of bullpen guys are so iffy.

  7. Votto4life

    The team will play better in 2025 and make a run at the division title in 2026.

    The Reds will draft an impact bat in a couple of weeks. He will be in Cincinnati late in 2025. It will take McLain, CES and Friedl some time to recover and get their swing back. By that time, players like Collier, Stewart, Jay Allen II and Lowder will also be knocking on the door.

    Hopefully, we will have a new manager by 2026 as well.

    • RedsFanInFL

      So will that be the 2nd or 3rd rebuild since the Dusty Baker era when the Reds start winning in 2026?

      • Longtimefan

        Since we traded all of our players and went in rebuild mode 3-4 yrs ago who did we get that has made any impact on our team today. Steer has had some big hits the last couple of years but he is only hitting about. 240. Marte is still young and learning but he is way below the Mendosa line. How long does a rebuild take to be successful? When do you realize that top prospects are only prospects until they become successful and that you didn’t trade verry wisely. Barrero was one of the top prospects in all of baseball a few years ago. Where is he now? I say trade alot of those so called top prospects for proven talent and take your chances on the results.

      • Votto4life

        I opposed the 2022 rebuild. I fumed when players like Sonny Gray and Luis Castillo were basically given away. But the rebuild is over. Those players are never coming back. All we can do now is look forward.

        This season (2024) was never going to be the year. This season screamed “regression”.

        They played OK in 2023 only because we were comparing them to the 2022 team that lost 100 games. It’s amazing they have played, as well as, they have this season with so many devastating injuries.

        The roster looks pretty solid moving forwarded. Like I said, they could use a new manager though.

  8. Jedi Joey

    Classic Reds baseball. Sweep the Yankees in New York and come home to struggle with the Tigers.

    • jmb

      Yep, they eat the Big Apple only to get run over in the Motor City. Ah, yes, the Reds will be sellers at the deadline.

      • JayTheRed

        I feel like the Reds will just sit pat again this year. Maybe one pickup who will marginally help the team improve. I think the team and many fans over value a lot of our young players. Until someone consistently hits for a full season, I am not getting my hopes up.

  9. Randoxu1

    I’ve commented on this several times. You don’t have to give up a lot to make yourself better. I’m repeating myself but Winker is a free agent at the end of the year, he was on base again 3 times today, he replaces Benson. Rooker with the A’s another homer and 3 hits today, a rh bat, those 2 guys would make this lineup so much better. Sometimes you have to give up prospects to get something but Krall refuses to do that. Sometimes you have to be proactive which they are not, it really bothers me that you will not improve your team. Benson, Dunn, Espinal and Marte have no business being on a major league roster right now if ever.

    • Kevin H


      I will add Senzel in the mix as well as he mashed left handing pitching. He is better than Rios, Soto, Jordan and maybe even Espinal. Winker and Rooker would be huge upgrades on what they have right now.

      • Randoxu1

        I agree with you on Senzel he just got released today, I would take him back in front of all those guys.

    • Jeremiah

      I’m glad for Winker, but I think he kind of spoke badly of the Reds organization when traded. I really don’t think they are interested in Him. He put a lot of effort into getting in better shape this year I read, which is good for him and I think he’s healthy. But I think there are some red flags with Winker. I hope he has a good career, but he’d be a big risk to give 16 million a year or so.

      Senzel I think is another guy I wouldn’t touch as the Reds. He’s a guy I think mostly getting looks based on being a number 2 pick. Still potential I assume, but I could see him retiring within the next few years, it just hadn’t worked out for him.

    • Rob

      Marte better be close to an all star. We gave up Castillo with 1.5 yrs of control remaining at $8M to get Marte and Arroyo. We expected Marte returns this year and Arroyo in 2025. Offer to trade them back to Seattle and see what the Mariners say. Of course we will have lost 2 of Luis prime years.

      • Votto4life

        Castillo wasn’t traded for Marte, he was traded for salary relief.

  10. Gpod

    everyone is always trying to figure out what is wrong with this team…..2 perfect examples that will give you insight into the team and how they operate..1) 2 runs in…man on 2nd no outs….ZERO effort to get the man to 3rd so you can score a 3rd run without even needing a hit 2) Espinal’s AB in the 9th…..gets to 2-0 and selfishly swings at ball 3 & then proceeds to swing at 2 more balls out of the strike zone and of course the game ends. You can swing at a 2-0 pitch if its in a hitting zone for gods sake, not a pitch that you flailed at that was not even in the strike zone….even if you take the pitch at 2-0 and it goes to 2-1 you’re still in the at bat….but you should have been sitting at 3-0! That’s what I call stupid baseball IQ!

    • Kevin H

      These guys have more IQ than you or I. To say otherwise is silly. Its alot harder than it looks on TV

      • Indy Red Man

        Not true. Colts based their whole season on a 4th down pass to a 4th string RB (1st option) last January. You think football fans don’t know better? Fast team in baseball. Bunt now and then and use that speed. Not brain surgery

      • Justin T

        Haha have you ever heard David Bell explain something? You really think the Reds players have high baseball IQs? Because they have ability? Id like to dig deeper into this and get your

    • DaveCT

      Getting fooled isn’t selfish. It’s getting fooled.

  11. Randoxu1

    Always looking to the future that never comes, that’s the Reds motto. I’m off my soapbox now.

  12. Randoxu1

    @Gpod, couldn’t agree more with what you just said. No baseball IQ from these guys.

    • Gpod

      and what annoys me even more is David Bell is never asked difficult questions….why can’t you answer the question: Why can’t you bunt a man over? Please answer that question…..please ask that question…..that’s all I ask!!

      • Daytonnati

        Because Jim Day, Sadak, Larkin, Giesenschlag, Annie, Thrall and Brantley are all fellow employees. Only Brantley seems to take his job seriously and probably has enough banked to not have any flocks to give.

      • Tom Mitsoff

        Guys, I was in the news media business for many years. It has changed drastically in many ways over the past few decades. One is what reporters and editors get paid for. It used to be that “scoops” (stories that no other media had reported yet) were the big goal. Those would sell more newspapers. Nowadays, one of the primary revenue generators is clicks. Having run news media companies’ social media accounts, what they are shooting for is getting something out first. It might be a “scoop,” it might not be.

        In my most recent media experience, we were in a competitive market. When we were the first to put a story out on Twitter and Facebook, we could watch the analytics (number of people clicking through to our web page) skyrocket. Hundreds of people clicking through in a very short period. When we knew a competitor tweeted or posted something before us, we could see that the number of views on our version of the story were substantially less. It didn’t take long to understand that if you weren’t first, you might as well be last.

        Why is that important? Because click-throughs to your webpage produce impressions (eyeballs) to the ads on your pages, which create revenue.

        So if you’re a reporter whose MO is to ask probing questions to the manager and front office which, when answered, make them look bad, you’re not going to have the chance to get news releases from the team out first. Why? Because all of the reporters we read online either work for the team or have worked to build trusting relationships with the manager and front office. As a result, these cooperative reporters very likely receive notice of press releases either simultaneously with or shortly before the team putting them online or on Twitter. It gives them a chance to get something posted quickly in a timeframe that may allow them to realize enough click-throughs to make a difference financially (and to their superiors).

        Back in the day, when reporters like Hal McCoy covered the team, they asked the tough questions because the team (every team) knew the only way to ensure they would get everyday public exposure would be to give those reporters credentials and be willing to answer any and all questions. Now, essentially, the teams largely control the messaging due to the reasons outlined above.

        Next time you ask yourself why something is or isn’t being reported or asked (not only in sports, but all media and all topics), think about this scenario.

      • LDS

        @TomM good points, and evident in ALL REPORTING from baseball to politics. News no longer exists and still they’ll clamor for 1st Amendment protections for their propaganda.

      • Tom Mitsoff

        Always remember that news is structured as a for-profit business. Why is that? Because if it was government-funded, who would believe that the government isn’t censoring information? Without a direct government censor, news organizations have historically been able to report on the government, which is essentially what the founding fathers foresaw — the need for a public watchdog over the government. However, the prominent funding models for media changed dramatically in the past 30 years. Newspapers were largely funded by display advertising from department stores, grocery stores, auto dealerships, etc. Classified advertising was a huge revenue source, but the emergence of Craigslist essentially killed the monetary model for classifieds.
        (The fee for a subscription goes only as far as paying the delivery person to deliver the paper.) With nearly all of that advertising going online, the newspaper industry has withered to being pretty much on life support. Online advertising rates are only pennies on the dollar compared to what display advertising used to be. Long story short … the entities that provide news have only a fraction of the revenue they used to receive, which has forced them all to make decisions essentially for survival. News entities like Fox News and MSNBC have flourished because they have developed very clearly defined audiences, which advertisers love.

  13. Daytonnati

    You’re streaky, Tom, just like the Reds. Keep writing and i’m sure you’ll break out a 12-game winning streak soon 🙂

  14. Kevin H

    Well tomorrow is a new day and one the Reds will win and go on their winning streak. They seem to rise up and beat the top pitchers of teams. Wheeler, Webb, Gray to name a few.

    Who knows by tomorrow maybe Reds will have made some trades to get a better bench and or players. With the current situation at hand even Bell has no options when it comes to the bench. Has he really all season?

    • JayTheRed

      Sorry I just have very little faith in this team. The players and management seem to play and run the team based on who they are playing. If it’s a tough team they work so hard to win. If it’s a middle of the road team they win some they lose some. If it’s a team that they should be beating they tend to lay back and lose.

  15. RedlegScott

    Yep, it’s all Tom’s fault.

  16. Lee

    This team has a losing record at home.You can’t win anything if you can’t win at home.Since we know the C boys will never move the fences back maybe when it comes time to blackmail the taxpayers into a new stadium they will alter the dimensions of the park.

    • RedsFanInFL

      It was very shirted sided of the Reds to build a small sandbox with short right field porch. Of course this was done thinking Griffey Jr would benefit and eventually surpass Hank Aaron during his tenure with the Reds

    • Erik the Red

      Agree . The dimensions of this ball park has been a problem since day 1. Frankly it has benefited our opponents more than us.

  17. Harry Stoner

    Bullpen meltdown that we’ve seen many, many, many times over the years coughing up a strong start.
    It’s happened to Greene bay number of times.
    One of those days?
    Whereas I once would have expected a guaranteed loss, once the BP took over, this season I’ve been expecting a win.
    Cruz and Moll have been the most dependable.
    Two tough losses in a row.
    4-6 would look like a victory at this point.

    Any positives?
    Steer is a hitter.
    Reminds me of Sabo, somewhat, but hits the ball harder.
    I liked him, but, I like Williamson and Spiers as much or more.
    Adios, muchacho!

  18. Fanman

    All begins and ends with ownership! They don’t care! If they did they would be aggressive and help this young exciting team. Injuries have decimated this roster. A right handed power bat in OF needed in off-season. Still do! The starting rotation is very good. Come on Bob! Sell the team if winning isn’t important.

  19. RedsGettingBetter

    Recent years I heard about the “easy stretch of the schedule” and always the Tigers have been included but they get in charge to frustrate the Reds hopes.
    One of the Reds problems is how to win at GABP, it´s incredible how hard is for this team is stringing wins as local and the other teams seem to very comfortable playing at Cincinnati. I always wonder since few years ago how are the stats about the homers hit and surrendered by the Reds at GABP, I guess that stat shouldn’t be good for sure…

    • TR

      But they were popping them out of Yankee Stadium for a few days. All is not lost. It’s a long season.

    • JayTheRed

      Any team can win on any given day. The best team can have a bad day. The worst team can have an amazing day. Detroit is improved this year some. I would say the two teams are somewhat close in quality players. We just know our team better.

      It is frustrating to see the Reds lose though after such a strong performance at Yankee stadium. Baseball always has it’s up and downs each day.

  20. JB

    Went for my nightly walk when it was 2-0. I knew they would lose. They beat the Yanks and everybody fell for it. You are not going to win when Espinal,Benson,Fairchild, Martini etc are getting a lot of playing time. Espinal PH? LMBO. My lord just pull somebody out of the stands to hit. This team is going nowhere even with great pitching.

    • Jason Franklin

      I didn’t fall for it. It’s easy to see that the team cannot play basic baseball. No fundamentals and seemingly never prepared. The good, fundamentally solid teams can be consistently good. The Reds cannot.

      • Rob

        They beat the Yanks twice with a total of 8 hits. I wouldn’t say that was good baseball or any better offense than they have had the last 2 days. Our bench is very very weak with Louisville likes. We may scare 500 with these dudes – because of our consistently good pitching – but I seriously doubt we are gong to get to 6-8 games over without some non Louisville additions. Dunn, Espinal, Wynn, Benson,are not the answers. Tigers hit a pinch hit HR. We run up Dunn and Espinal. Are you kidding me?

    • Melvin

      “Espinal PH? LMBO”

      What do you mean? Don’t you know Espinal has been our DH on several occastions? What’s wrong with you? You obviously don’t understand. 😉

      • JB

        It’s like Bell has no concept on what a DH is. I wanted JD Martinez for that role. Let’s put our weakest hitter at DH. Brilliant.

    • JayTheRed

      I would say the Reds have good pitching, not great pitching! It’s a big reason why they have been in a lot of close games. If ownership would just go out and get at least one consistent hitting player for the OF I think it would really help the team. 2 would be amazing but I’m not holding my breath.

      A lot of people have been really down on Frailey this year. The guy is going through a lot outside of work so I would hope we all could give him a little break this season.

  21. Ron

    This is a dysfunctional organization. It starts with ownership and filters on down from there. I have accepted the fact that my level of passion for winning is probably not shared by the owners, the front office, the manager or possibly even some of the players. I sometimes wonder why I still care about this team. I try to prevent myself from getting so frustrated and agitated by the way this organization conducts business. I keep thinking that sooner or later things will change. It’s not going to change. I can only judge this organization by what I see day in and day out.
    I see:
    – An emotionless manager (in regards to winning and losing).
    – A team that continues to make mental mistakes.
    – A number of players who simply don’t have the talent to be on a major league roster. I understand that injuries have caused some of this but every team has injuries.
    – A number of players that seem to be going through the motions.
    – A minor league system that seems to be void of teaching basic fundamentals. Major league players shouldn’t need to be taught.
    – A front office that seems uncertain about how to construct a competitive roster.

    I could go on but I won’t. Tomorrow is a new day and maybe things will change. I’m not counting on it.

    • Brian

      How far off is the Reds organization of being the worst organization of the 30 in MLB? That’s a serious question. I would think that they are at least one of the 5 worst. I don’t expect them to make the playoffs this year but what happens if they also miss it next year too? Is it rebuild talk again? It’s not really that fun being a Reds fan anymore. I can’t seem to shake them totally but my care level isn’t close se to what it always was.
      Regardless of having some nice pieces to build on, this ownership group isn’t going to add final pieces when the needed time arrives.

      • JayTheRed

        I look at the Reds as being potential contenders the next 4 seasons. I know I have said this a thousand times, but injuries have held this team back this year. I am not sold on Marte yet. I think he has a lot of potential, but his good hitting was for about 1-month last season at the major league level. Players do get good starts to their career and then adjustments are made, and they struggle. I also haven’t given up on Marte either. Let’s see where he is at by the end of the season. A lot of these players are only playing their 1st full or 2nd full seasons. They are young. I think India is just 26 I believe, and he is one of the older players on the team on the hitting side. We all need patience. It’s hard for me too. I thought this team was going to be over .500 for sure and they are struggling to just get there. I keep saying 2025 is the year the fans will see the best chance for this team to be a strong contender. The team for sure has growing pains but let’s celebrate their successes and understand some days are going to be rough.

  22. RedlegScott

    Here’s some consistency: These guys are adept at getting close to .500 only to turn around and lose it again.

  23. Melvin

    Two words to describe Big Bob and most of the people he puts in management to run the Reds.


    • Melvin

      By the way Tom keep writing. You do a great job. 🙂 We’re all being treated like idiot gullible suckers by Big Bob and company. It’s not your fault. 🙂

  24. Jeremiah

    Interesting stat on Castellini’s ownership…the best regular season team since the 75-76 Big Red Machine was Castellini’s 2012 97 win team.

    I think Castellini started out pretty well as an owner, got the team back to respectability, hired a controversial but winning manager in Dusty Baker. The 2012 team I think should have won the World Series, they just kind of fell apart unfortunately at the wrong time versus the Giants.

    A lot of teams take 5-6 years to rebuild so the Reds then after their last really good team in 2013 you would think should start competing again by 2019 maybe at the latest. I think the 2020 Covid team in a normal year may have been a legitmate 85-90 win team with Trevor Bauer pitching a whole season. No one will ever know. I don’t really count the 31-29 “playoff” team as much of a playoff year in my books.

    But you could say they almost rebuilt to a playoff contender in 2020…but if you take that 2020 season out, they’ve been rebuilding now almost for 11 years.

    I’m not quite sure what went wrong with Castellini’s ownership as far as success on the field after the 2013 year. But it’s a competitive business. I do think he’s the key though, is he satisfied with Bell, Krall, and company going into the 2025 if they don’t have a winning season this year?

  25. BK

    @ Tom, very well summarized as usual. As my mother used to tell me when I got superstitious during games as a kid, “you are no where near that powerful!”

    So, keep them coming!

    • Tom Mitsoff

      I used to be superstitious until I heard Anthony Munoz discuss the topic on a radio talk show once upon a time. Essentially, his message was, what any fan is wearing or not wearing or where he or she is sitting or not sitting has absolutely nothing to do with one-on-one matchups on the field, where one player is either going to get the best of or lose that matchup to another. That hit home for the guy who used to wear lucky shirts and sit in lucky chairs.

    • LDS

      Hey, if they can find a team that’ll take Sims, go for it. Bell can’t use something he doesn’t have.

      • Oldtimer

        Sims has ERA+ 113 (100 is NL average) this year. Higher than IQ of some Reds fans.

      • Justin T

        @ Oldtimer

        Do you watch the games or go to fangraphs? If you watch the games you cant possibly think Sims is a vibale high leverage option.

    • DHud

      I’d do the Chisholm trade yesterday

      Not a chance I’m sending India away for that package though. How does that make the Reds better??

      • Melvin

        “Not a chance I’m sending India away for that package though. How does that make the Reds better??”

        It wouldn’t. At least not currently. That’s kind of the point I was making. Trade for more prospects and push winning off further down the line….again. Wouldn’t be surprised.

        I’d be pleasantly shocked if Krall & Co. made a “Chisholm like” trade or two. I may even pass out.

      • DHud

        Melvin right – sorry if it came off as me questioning you specifically. My question was rhetorical/my reasoning to not make that trade

  26. jmb

    And Young is cooling his heels in AAA.

    • LDS

      Yep, hard to imagine that Young and Santillian wouldn’t be an upgrade over Sims and Wilson.

      • Jim Walker

        @Oldtimer>> Sims inherited runners scored % is 42.1% (8/19) This depreciates his ERA somewhat in my eyes. Also, his FIP is 1.94 runs higher than his ERA which suggests Sims has been somewhat lucky to have the 3.81 ERA.

        By comparison, despite yesterday and a couple of other gopher balls Fernando Cruz has served up, his IRS is 19.4% (6/31) which is reflected in his 4.35 ERA. But his FIP is only 2.98.

      • LDS

        @Oldtimer, I don’t much care about statistics like ERA+. They aren’t nearly as meaningful as some here think. I’d have to spend a lot more time looking at the data and the numbers behind the numbers before I’d jump on the bandwagon. Abuse of statistics is a widely common thing in the modern world. No reason to think baseball is any different.

  27. Jeremiah

    I wrote a big long post that apparently didn’t make it on here! But main point being, best Reds regular Season since 76 was Castellini’s 97 win team in 2012 which I think should have won a World Series, they just fell apart at a bad time in that series vs. the Giants.

    Castellini did a great job starting out, hired Dusty Baker, Jocketty, Rolen, brought respect back to the Reds….really what transpired after 2013 has been the issue. I’m not sure what happened, but it’s a competitive business, and the Reds just haven’t really been able to rebuild successfully since the 2013 season.

  28. CI3J

    We’ve seen this story many times before.

    How stunning is Sim’s fall from grace? From one of the most dependable arms last year to a gas can this year.

    • JayTheRed

      Sure, it would be nice if Sims was having a better year, but you all act like he has a 6.00 ERA or higher. Sims is a decent reliever. He is not as good as he has been in years past, but relievers are so up and down, I am not ready to just shell him off somewhere else.

  29. Redsvol

    I’ve said it several times in last couple weeks, we’re not going to consistently win when we don’t get men on base. The team doesn’t have power so we need men on base.

    Unfortunately, we have 5 players – benson, Espinal, martini, Fairchild, & maile – getting decent sample size at bats and hitting < .650 OPS.

    As entire lineup, we consistently strikeout more and take walks less than the opposing team. If you're not hitting home runs then you can't do that!

    I've are wasting some great starting pitching this year. They are consistently keeping us in games. We just have very few position players capable of mlb at bats. That has to change for this team to win series.

    Bullpen meltdowns will happen time to time. That's not what is preventing this team from winning consistently.

  30. JB

    So reading everybody’s trade thoughts the past few weeks , the consensus on here and in MLB trade rumors is Rooker,Chisholm, Guerrero, Robert and a couple others are the named pieces to get. There aren’t a lot of others being named but those few. The Reds being a small market need to get those pieces now and not at the deadline. The big markets like the Yanks and Dodgers will step right over Krall and his dummies to get them. The Reds are good at kicking the tires until it’s to late and then saying well it just wasn’t right. Ending up with some road kill players like Renfroe,Bader, Cabrera, Goodwin etc. Expecting them to be All stars and watching them go 1-50. The same old crap with this team. I’m a die hard fan who wouldn’t miss a game but in the last month I’ve found better things to do than watch this train wreck. It’s a disaster from Bob right on down the ladder. This team has a good top half of the lineup and a very very poor bottom half. The top half is being asked to be top level all stars in order to carry the bottom half players who shouldn’t even be playing whatsoever. There is a lot of pressure on the top half guys. They need help now or be sellers at deadline because this team isn’t going anywhere the way it’s constructed.

    • LDS

      Small market is an excuse. Can the Reds spend like LA or NY? Of course not. However, Cleveland seems to be doing okay and they are small market. Their payroll is lower than the Reds. Milwaukee was supposed to curl up and die this season. They haven’t. The difference is that Milwaukee and Cleveland are serious baseball organizations. They don’t have little league managers. Their FO actually makes moves to improve the team. They don’t sign a dozen utility infielders when they need a starting OF. The Reds do. We have seen the results for years. But Castellini is making buckets of money, rewarding his loyalists, and laughing at the gullible Cincinnati fans that keep believing this organization cares about winning. Already, you can see it here, maybe 2025, 2026 when all the guys in the minors are ready. Nope, it won’t happen then if Bell, Krall, and Castellini have their way.

      • Kevin H

        Bell isn’t a little league manager. Good grief

      • LDS

        That’s true @KevinH. If Bell was a Little League manager, the parents would have gotten rid of him years ago.

      • JayTheRed

        No I have been saying 2025 for the past 3 seasons. The kids needed time to mature that is why I didn’t expect contention this year.

    • Melvin

      “The Reds being a small market need to get those pieces now and not at the deadline”

      Yes. Should have been trying hard long before now. They most likely will wait until the deadline and then say, “The price was too high”.

  31. gusnwally

    I was watching the game on the Tigers network. I stayed on to listen to the post game. Every player and the manager said the exact same thing. MAN WE WERE THRILLED TO SEE THE REDS TAKE GREEN OUT OF THE GAME. I know he was at 104 pitches. But, it really was a mental shot of ( OK boys we got em now). I would have loved to see him go one more inning. I don’t believe in the 100 pitch theory anyhow.

    • JayTheRed

      I don’t believe in pitch counts either but if a guy would be hitting the 120 to 130 marks, then I would have a short leash.

      Bell needs to let his starters go longer if they are continuing to get outs. He has been a hair better about this in 2024. Not enough though to really see a big change though.

  32. Doc

    Easy to see why Doug has difficulty getting new subscribers.

    • JB

      Subscibers- is a person who paid in advance. Not one person pays for Redleg Nation.

  33. Jim Walker

    {sarcasm font ON}
    The Reds cannot win at home but are an even .500 on the road. Maybe they need to sequester the players and coaches at a hotel overnight when they are “at home”??? {sarcasm font OFF}

    The days of curfews are probably long gone even on the road. However, it might behoove the Reds to talk with the guys about structure and routine in life away from the ballpark when they are essentially on their own versus being together in a structured situation most of the time on the road.

    • Jim Walker

      Every professional sport and every situation within a specific sport is different. However, I’ve heard coaches and media beat people in other sports speak of how a team often works out its issues on the road with the structure of being on the road and spending more time together on the road.

    • Melvin

      haha Yeah. You can’t sleep in your own bed until we win the series. Same thing for the next series. haha

  34. Kevin H

    Jesse Winker is batting 264. 10 HR, and 40 RBI. 12 Steals. He and Booker from the A’s, would solve the outfield issues.

    • Randoxu1

      I have mentioned this 3 weeks ago. Other than you Kevin, I got laughed at about winker. He is healthy has a track record of hitting and getting on base. It will not cost anything, he is a free agent at the end of the year. You pick him up and see what happens, I know this, he is a 100% upgrade over what they have now. All these people are under the assumption you have to give up a lot to get Winker and it is simply not true. Rooker is a no brainer and you would have to give up more but I’m sick of hearing about prospects, how about be proactive and try and win now.

      • Kevin H

        Reds hang on to the prospect’s where they gonna play. CES, McLain, De La Cruz, Marte, and Steer not going anywhere for at least 5 years.

        Oh, and do forget Arroyo. So why not pull a couple trades to upgrade and deal your prospects.

    • Randoxu1

      + 10000, Also package Sims, Diaz and possibly Wilson and get Santillan and young back up here.

  35. Mark A Verticchio

    Why is Benson playing against a lefty, another horrible and I mean horrible line up. Looks like 42 and 48, This week is a must 5 and 2 or better, LOL.

    • Randoxu1

      Just saw the lineup. How is Benson and Espinal in the lineup. Where is Stephenson and Fairchild. Are you kidding me.

      • JayTheRed

        It’s the Sunday Bell special lineup. Happens almost every Sunday. Gotta gets all his players little league playing time.

  36. Laredo Slider

    Good lord, Senzel with a miserable fail with Washington and some want to bring him back. LOL!

    • JayTheRed

      I don’t want Senzel or Winker back. No thanks

  37. Mark A Verticchio

    Any manager that would put the line up that Bell has today out there, in a game they really need, doesn’t deserve to keep his job.