After having an off day on Thursday, the Cincinnati Reds hit the road this afternoon to take on the Chicago Cubs at Wrigley Field to start a 3-game series. Today’s first pitch is set for 2:20pm ET.

Starting Lineup

Cincinnati Reds

Chicago Cubs

TJ Friedl – CF Mike Tauchman – DH
Elly De La Cruz – SS Seiya Suzuki – RF
Jeimer Candelario – 3B Cody Bellinger – 1B
Spencer Steer – 1B Christopher Morel – 3B
Jake Fraley – RF Ian Happ – LF
Tyler Stephenson – C Nico Hoerner – 2B
Nick Martini – DH Dansby Swanson – SS
Jonathan India – 2B Pete Crow-Armstrong – CF
Will Benson – LF Yan Gomes – C
Graham Ashcraft – RHP Javier Assad – RHP

Starting Pitchers

Graham Ashcraft 54.0 4.67 1.44 19 43
Javier Assad 58.0 2.17 1.16 23 54
Links: Graham Ashcraft’s Stats | Javier Assad’s Stats

Graham Ashcraft

It’s been a bit of a rough patch for Ashcraft over his last four starts as he’s posted a 6.52 ERA in 19.1 innings with 10 walks and just 13 strikeouts. During those four games he’s only faced two teams – the Diamondbacks and the Dodgers.

This season the splits have been a bit more even for Graham Ashcraft than in the past, but they’ve also been flipped a bit after having more success against left-handed hitters in both 2022 and 2023. In 2024 there hasn’t been a big difference in how often either group is getting on base against him, but lefties are hitting for more power than righties are and that’s made a difference.


RHH 127 29 7 0 3 11 24 .257 .339 .398
LHH 114 30 4 0 5 8 19 .286 .333 .467

Pitch Usage

2-Seam Cutter Slider Change
Velo 95.2 95.9 89.2 90.3
Usage 20% 47% 31% 3%

Javier Assad

After not allowing more than two earned runs in any of his first 10 starts this season, Assad got touched up for four runs in 5.0 innings in his last start. He had only allowed two home runs in his first nine starts of the season but he’s allowed two home runs in each of his last two outings.

While there are some splits against Javier Assad, he’s pitched well against both righties and lefties. The big difference has come from the fact that lefties have a 31 point advantage in average (which carries forward to the 35 point advantage in slugging). Right-handed hitters are walking a little bit more and making more contact, but that has not translated to better results to this point in the season.


RHH 115 19 3 0 3 12 23 .190 .278 .310
LHH 126 25 5 0 3 11 31 .221 .288 .345

Pitch Usage

4-sm 2-sm Cutter Curve Slider Change
Velo 92.4 92.2 88.3 77.1 80.3 84.8
Usage 20% 35% 22% 8% 10% 4%

When and Where

  • Game time: 2:20pm ET
  • Where: Wrigley Field
  • Watch: Bally Sports Ohio,, MLB Network
  • Listen: 700 WLW AM (Cincinnati area)
  • Forecast: 73°, cloudy, 5% chance of rain

News and Notes

Drafting an outfielder

Baseball America released their latest mock draft this morning and have the Reds selecting a college outfielder. Georgia’s Charlie Condon is the current prediction and he’s slugging over 1.000 this season and is averaging more than one extra-base hit per game. The draft is still more than six weeks away, but the amateur baseball season is coming to a close. We wrote more about Condon and other players that could be there for the taking for Cincinnati if that’s something you’re interested in checking out.

The Fernando Cruz journey

Division Standings

Team W L GB
Milwaukee 33 23
St. Louis 27 27 5.0
Chicago 28 29 5.5
Pittsburgh 26 30 7.0
Cincinnati 24 32 9.0

128 Responses

  1. Dennis Westrick

    IMO, GA would be much more effective if he would eliminate the “nibbling” after getting ahead in the count that often results in “Unneccessary walks that are NOT neccessary” to quote my high school baseball coach!

    • Jason T.

      This is what frustrates me so much about Ashcraft. Super talented but nibbles way too much. If Williamson is ready for MLB action soon I’d rather see Ashcraft in the bullpen if he continues with his inconsistency. I think he has a high ceiling and some great pitches, he’s just not pitching efficiently.

      • Jason T.

        Now a 9 pitch inning like that shows he’s fully capable of greatness. Loved how he worked the zone and threw strikes.

  2. Mike W

    DW, I agree with you about GA and his tendency to nibble. If you’re going to nibble, do it like Greg Maddox: make it outside the zone, but just barely and the batter will either swing and miss, or ground out. OR as DW said, go with the stuff you got to get ahead and finish him off, but missing by a lot wastes pitches, and gets your pitch count up and makes Bell pull you sooner than need be. Other than that, I really like you GA and I say in 30 minutes start shutting out the Cubbies!
    P.s. How does a guy goes from being Mr. Bell’s #3-5 hitter in our starting lineup 5 days ago, to being DFA’d for Friedl. Clearly he should have never been a starter for us. Tell me Mr. Bell, if you had to DFA a person to make room for Friedl to return, wouldn’t it be the least valuable least skilled obvious bench warmer we had? Yes it would and Ford was that guy — but you had him starting. Ford should never have been brought up or put in the starting lineup — and he proved that daily. I’m guessing either Ford had an injury or management stepped in 5 days ago and said “don’t put him in any starting lineup, he doesn’t help us i any way!” Either way, he’s gone and Friedl is back. Yeah. Let’s get back on track and win 2 of every 3 games we play the rest of the year. That means you hitters, get it going!

  3. Moon

    It does not matter who the pitcher is the Red are facing or the circumstances. The Reds will struggle offensively. We just have to hope or pitching is good enough to scrape out a win. So go GA!

  4. Baserunning Aficionado

    I read the comments here on a semi-regular basis, but I’ve never left a comment of my own.

    If Reds players do manage to get on base during this series, the Cubs’ catchers are rather poor on defense and they’re not very good at throwing out baserunners. Their pitchers are a bit better at pick-off moves (Assad, Steele), but if the Reds can choose their spots wisely, I think they could be surprisingly successful.

  5. Dennis Westrick

    Unfortunately (or fortunately), I have to attend a staff meeting from 2:30 until ???

    Hopefully the Reds will score early and take some of the pressure off of GA to throw 5 to 6 shutout innings!

  6. steelerfan

    Finally get to see a game on tv, and the preview had the reds BA leader at .247. That took some shine off…

    • Steelersfan

      Never mind, Fraley at .279. Must have missed him in the leaders category of the preview. I feel much better.

  7. VaRedsFan

    Jake Fraley.

    He is much more aggressive, swinging at the first pitch 49% of the time, up from 37% last year and a MLB average of 30%
    His launch angle has plunged from 16.5 degrees to 9.8 degrees…meaning he’s not lifting the ball as much.
    That’s resulted in a lot more ground balls….38% last year to 47% this year.
    As a result, his slugging % has plunged from .443 to .361.

    • LDS

      As I advocated at the time, Fraley should have been packaged and traded in the off season for a true everyday outfielder with power. The Reds are simply not very good, and even the bookies overestimated them pre-season.

      • Harry Stoner

        Who are you going to ‘package’ Fraley with for a player of any value?

        Greene? Lodolo?

        Given the numerous holes in his game, who is going to take him?

        Williamson might be the only true keeper out of the big unload with Seattle, but it’s too soon to tell.

        I know Fraley is going through a tough time at home, but he’s been a loose cannon out there.

      • LDS

        Fraley was looking like a pretty good platoon player after last year’s performance. I was hoping it would last but apparently not. Barrero comes to mind as someone who might have packaged well with him. As was Martini and any number of others. The big point is the Reds needed to be honest and admit they weren’t close to a competitive team. Some good core players, no doubt, and lots of potential upside. But a team doesn’t win the World Series or even the division on potential. They win it with solid players. And it was obvious to most, from the analytics forecast to bookies that the Reds weren’t there yet. And in all honesty, I’m not sure that they’ll get there with this roster and this management.

      • LDS

        And India could have been packaged with him as well instead of signing an extension. Frankly, if the Reds were really honest, they would admit that their only goal is to enrich Big Bob and the ownership group. It’s not winning. They only have to appear to be trying so that all of diehard fans pay attention to the team, buy tickets, cable subscriptions, etc. An organization, dedicated to winning, behaves far differently.

      • Harry Stoner

        The Reds needlessly burned through Barrero’s options which reduced his value considerably.

        Martini couldn’t be packaged with Moe Vermouth and Curly Olive to bring anything of value.

        Same with Candelario’s contract now.

        Reds are stuck with them both.

        Fraley understandably has a lot on his mind with his daughter’s health, but it doesn’t seem like his head is fully in the game.

      • Harry Stoner

        I think the Reds might have signed India (fairly cheaply) because they couldn’t trade him.

        I don’t doubt that folks were asking high of the Reds last year knowing they were desperate.

        I just don’t trust Krall to make the kind of big acquisition deal folks are clamoring for.

        I’ll take the 100 loss season as a means to get rid of Bell.

      • LDS

        @Harry, I agree with you, but I’m not sure another 100-loss season would do the trick. We’ve had 5 years of excuses on Bell and nearly 20 years of excuses on Castellini. I’m not confident of anything changing. And Nick Krall is closer to being another Bowden than being a Howsam.

    • Jeremiah

      I could see the Braves trading for Fraley if the Reds are out of it at the break and them still needing depth for the loss of Acuna Jr. He’s struggled a bit this year, some due to injuries. I don’t know though maybe sometimes when everyone around you isn’t hitting, and no one is hardly ever on base, it makes a better than average hitter like Fraley look pretty weak statistic wise. It’d be big if he heated up.

  8. Jason T.

    Ugh, looking ugly fast. Right over the plate to Happ.
    Now a Candy error.

  9. magi210

    Happ is a reds killer, feels like he has their number.

  10. Roger Garrett

    Just tuned in to say ballgame.Down thanks to Happ who I have said for years we need to trade for and it would save us 2 or 3 losses per year.Reds will get beat down all 3 games.

  11. Jim Delaney

    With Williamson ramping up on a rehab. What will Reds do with Ashcraft? Will he be sent down? Moved to Pen? Traded? I would think he is going to be replaced he has been in effective most of the season. A 5.00 era in today’s heavy ball era doesn’t play….

  12. Roger Garrett

    Just wanted to add after the 5 pitch walk to Steer that of course Fraley swings at the first pitch and a DP followed by a hit.Reds just have no clue how to play the game.Is there ever a take sign given?Must not even have one.

  13. dimondfvr

    Benson stands there admiring his “home run” and nearly gets tagged out at second base. He ought to be benched!

    • Jason T.

      That was disgusting. Absolutely unacceptable.

      • Harry Stoner

        He was just “Being who he is!”

        Totally acceptable and praiseworthy in Krall-Bell Land.

      • Jason T.

        A microcosm of all that is wrong and you’re absolutely right.

      • Beaufort Red

        What ever happened to fining ballplayers?

      • Harry Stoner

        Not going to happen in Bell Land, but I’d like to see a stack of pre-printed ‘citations’ in the dugout.

        $500 payable to Cincinnati Children’s Hospital.

        They’d be opening the “Benson-Fraley-DeLaCruz” wing.


    Reds have 5 Ks after 3 innings!

  15. dimondfvr

    Reds Sadak says going into today, Benson and De La Cruz are among four players in the league with 74 strikeouts each. Add two more for Elly!

  16. Harry Stoner

    Has EDLC pulled ahead of Benson in the NL strikeout race?

    Bragging rights, for sure.

    Maybe pose for the cameras down at the end of the dugout?

    Or does this call for a private celebration?

    • Old-school

      Someone said the other day

      Replace the viking helmet with the golden sombrero

  17. Jason T.

    Elly looks awful. Looks at too many strikes and swung at a miserable pitch to strikeout.

  18. Roger Garrett

    Friedl and Elly up twice and strike out twice.Dude fans the side.What a poor excuse for a big league ball club.After an off day and look like this is unacceptable.

  19. Roger Garrett

    Bell has lost control because he had none to start with.You can’t defend this little league play and not expect it to continue.The only thing left is for a player to run the wrong way on the bases.

  20. Jason T.

    Thank goodness for that double play to bail Wild Thing Ashcraft out.


    GA, meet pitchers best friend,(DP). That was needed or could have been big inning for cubbies with Happ up next

  22. Roger Garrett

    I know you can’t send every position player packing but its getting close.Its so obvious this is not a team this is just a bunch of guys freelancing and looking for stats.No way they are concerned about winning unless they shine in doing it,

  23. Mike W

    Steer really zoned in nicely. He walks or puts the barrel on the ball each time. Our other guys should watch his film. Most importantly eyes on the ball and shortened swing. I’m still thinking Elly will homer today! If not that, I’d take a bunt single and a stolen base!
    This is a battle of two struggling teams — but I think we will win today. Don’t even pitch to Happ. Just walk him. We can beat this mediocre team especially if we can get Assad’s pitch count up.

    • Roger Garrett

      Indy with the DP on a 3-1 pitch.

  24. Harry Stoner

    Despite the grumbling and bumbling, I’ve got a good feeling about this one.


      Reds seem to always win the first game of a series then, enough said

  25. Jeremiah

    I think it’s getting close to moving EDLC down in the order back to 6th…Friedl, Fraley, Steer, Stephenson Candelario…not a great top 5 but at least more seasoned/veteran players.

    Bell giving Benson a long leash while struggling If you believe in a guy I understand, especially if he’s your #9 hitter and is good defensively. Getting the hit and walk today good for Benson, he seems better in the 9 hole. I wonder though is Hurtubise a better every day player? Not sure, but hopefully Bell knows when to make a change if needed.

  26. Roger Garrett

    Benson with a 4 pitch walk and Friedl wait wait wait swings at the first pitch.You can’t make this stuff up.Its just unreal what these guys do at the plate.


      Guess Friedl didn’t want to strikeout 3 times in a row like Elly so he just wanted to make contact this time. You would think someone, anyone would try a new approach at the plate. Never seems to happen with these guys. Pitcher having trouble throwing strikes then take until he can get one over. As you have said before Little League stuff

  27. Jason T.

    Another K for Elly. He’s absolutely lost lately at the plate. Another look at a strike right over the plate.

  28. Harry Stoner

    Chicago sombrero makers getting out the straw and the gold for EDLC.

    His hat size is pretty well known by now.

  29. Roger Garrett

    Elly again with the strikeout.Got to move him down and right now.

  30. Roger Garrett

    Seen enough of this we’re good and we know we’re good team today.Was going to stay and see what moves Bell makes but no use ruining the whole afternoon.GO REDS and beat up those Cubbies

  31. dimondfvr

    Another wasted plate appearance for DeLaCruz. Elly now has 77 strikeouts on the year. As repeated many times on this post, he has no idea what he’s doing at the plate. And yes, he is 22 years old, a young guy. But he is not doing himself or the team any good if he doesn’t get on base.

  32. Jeremiah

    Cubs aren’t that great…I wonder did they overpay for Counsell? They’re dependent on Bellinger being really really good I think to have a good team. Just not a super impressive roster I think. Maybe Swanson turns it around.

    Maybe the Brew Crew is the only Central team who knows what they’re doing!

  33. Jason T.

    HBP, walk… here we go…
    Ashcraft’s numbers the third time through the order are absolutely atrocious!

  34. Hanginwithem

    This “lift and separate” or “employing the launch angle” crap has really gotten out of hand. De La Cruz was not swinging like that when he was at Chattanooga. He made some noticeable adjustments early this year and saw positive results. For whatever reason, he has regressed. He’s not the only one, either. The entire team seems to be averse to the notion of stringing three hits together.

  35. Dennis Westrick

    Seriously? A walk to Happ with an 0-2 count? This is why the Reds have a losing record this season!

  36. Mike W

    Dang! Bell just doesn’t get how to manage his players. He should have let Ashcroft work his way out of the jam he was in and have 5 innings and be eligible for the W.

    • wkuchad

      And if Bell left him in and it didn’t work out, how many would have then complained “Bell just doesn’t know how to manage”?

      • Mike W

        These are super competitive athletes with egos. Our SP was pissed about being pulled — as he should be. What Bell did was publicly embarrass our SP and it was also a public vote of no confidence as well. Not only was it insulting, but W’s for SPs have a lot to do with their earnings. Our guys don’t say anything publicly for fear of what Bell might do, but our SPs should be thinking about teh next pitch, not if they make a small mistake they’ll get pulled. Several ex SPs have spoken publicly recently about Bell. His 5+ year record of sub par W/L should be reason enough for Bell to be replaced — after all, it IS a business!

      • Doug Gray

        Mike, absolutely no one is paying pitchers for wins in 2024.

  37. Dennis Westrick

    Following this team and trying to justify why and how the events happen each inning and each at bat is truly maddening!

    For instance, Cruz goes 0-2 to Happ but eventually walks him to drive in the go-ahead run after GA hits a batter and walks 2 more earlier in the inning!

    Then, in the top of the 6th, Steer starts out with a 2-0 count and then strikes out after 3 more pitches!

    Again! Maddening, infuriating, exasperating! Pick one!

  38. Dennis Westrick

    Same old, same old Reds offense today! Eight (8) strikeouts thru 6 innings! And, yes, EDLC owns three (3) of those SOs!

    For the matematically-challenged out there, that’s nearly half of the 18 outs recorded!

    General Custer had better statistics!


      @Dennis – just got the magical 10 Ks, more surprised by the 6 walks. The score should be about 8-3 but those strikeouts. And Candy can’t get that productive out with a man at 3rd. The Reds way!

  39. Jeremiah

    Things compound when the overall team isn’t very good…While Ashcraft hasn’t been great, if the Reds had a little better offense, maybe they are up 3-2, 4-2 and you let Ashcraft stay in against Happ, maybe he gets out of a jam and even goes another inning, 6 innings and the bullpen is more rested not only for today but the whole series. Bringing in Cruz early not only may effect today’s game, but the whole series negatively if they lose.

    That’s where having a true Ace that could go 7 or 8 innings though can stop the bleeding in a series. I think this whole series is going to be close, two offensively struggling team. Maybe who has the better bullpen wins the series.

  40. LDS

    Well that’s something you don’t see every day. Now it’s up to the bullpen.

  41. LDS

    I’m beginning to think the Reds rushed Friedl back too quickly. He’s only 2-19 against RHers and 2-6/vs LHers.

    • wkuchad

      This was my fear too, because the team was so desperate to get him back.

  42. Mark Moore

    I completely forgot we were playing this afternoon. Tuned in after meetings and publishing updates to see the HR celebration from Espinal and then TJ whiff (again). Nice work by Elly making it to 3rd. Boo on Candy for not lifting something where Elly could score.

    No lead is safe most days in Wrigleyville. Today is no exception.

    • Mark Moore

      And the inability to execute means we lead by only 1 instead of 2. That’s the kind of thing we’ve all been talking about. Fundamentals and discipline. Basic baseball stuff. So often lacking.

  43. Jeremiah

    LDS he came back very quickly, I was a little shocked. Not sure that was a good thing yes. Hopefully he’s healed up.

  44. RedsGettingBetter

    Candelario swinging a pitching in dirt for strike three with runner on 3rd, 1 out

  45. Harry Stoner

    Can somebody show Candelario a photo or a diagram or a You Tube video of what a sacrifice fly looks like?

    • Old-school

      Or a 6 hopper roll over to 2b

      Cubs were conceding the run

  46. Jeremiah

    If this were 1990 now would be the time to bring in Charlton, Meyers and Dibble to shut it down!


        The Good Old Days! When Baseball was Baseball. What Fun That Was

  47. Jeremiah

    Sam Moll, the 2024 version of Randy Myers, or Charlton? Not sure who he’d resemble more.

  48. Harry Stoner

    Interesting factoid:
    Stephenson 18 rbis on the year.
    Espinal 17 rbis.

  49. Stoney

    Stephenson giving great at bats again today. One of the few. Needs to be in the lineup every day.

  50. RedsGettingBetter

    Wow, Fairchild after a great AB let the pitcher to catch him at first with India on 3-1 count… horrible, ugly… this happens frequently this is a bad direction too…

    • Harry Stoner

      It’s all Hakuna Matata in Bell Land.

  51. Old-school

    India double
    Espinal perfect sac bunt
    Friedl slaps a single and reds play add-on

    Am I delusional in the desert seeing an oasis or was that fundamental execution of baseball to play add-on?

  52. 50thyearRedsfan

    Does anyone know if any team has ever had three of its players reach or cross the Mendoza line in the same game? Martini has reached .200, Benson is up to .201, and Espinal has soared to .202!

    • Melvin

      It’s kind of like the “new norm” unfortunately.

    • Mike Adams

      Single and walk: he is just setting up some force outs
      Don’t worry it will be okay.

  53. 50thyearRedsfan

    Uh oh Diaz has started off poorly, I am hoping the Reds can hold on and beat these Cubs but putting a runner on base when the team needs two runs to catch up is not good. And putting another runner on to set up a walkoff is disturbing. Please don’t disappoint me today Reds.

  54. Beroader

    Fifth pitch to Busch looked like a strike online that would have struck him out. Did we get hosed? They called Candelario out on a more borderline pitch.

  55. Melvin

    Please tell me someone else is warming up.

  56. Votto4life

    So many weird things happen at Wrigley Field.

  57. 50thyearRedsfan

    What I really don’t understand is when the pitcher is clearly having an off day why do they leave him in so long??? Sparky would never put up with this.

  58. 50thyearRedsfan

    What I really don’t understand is when the pitcher is clearly having an off day why do they leave him in so long??? Sparky would never put up with this. Where is Captain Hook when we need him?

  59. Melvin

    We were very fortunate they were stupid in trying to score that 2nd run with less than two outs. Still need one more out…..and somehow got it. No drama though. lol 😀

  60. 50thyearRedsfan

    And De La Cruz saves the day! Diaz gets bailed out, and the Reds win! Smiles for everyone 🙂

    • Beaufort Red

      Hurtubise saved the day with a great cutoff and perfect throw to EDLC. Without the outfield play EDLC doesn’t get a chance to make the throw.

  61. Beroader

    Gets the final out on a 107 mph screamer. On the other hand, the double was 81 mph.

  62. RedsGettingBetter

    The Reds finally win the game after a 107.2 MPH drive from Bellinger to CF with the tying run at 3rd…Before that Elly thrown out the tying run too…

  63. Gpod

    He actually gets credit for a save….whatever it takes, i guess

    • Gpod

      Elly should actually get a “save” on his stats

  64. LDS

    Amazing how well the Reds do hen the opponent walks a ton of batters. You’d think the Reds would catch on. Apparently Diaz didn’t

  65. Roger Garrett

    Bell is awful if not for the Cubs making a Reds mistake on the bases we lose this game.Bell must go and right now.

  66. Beroader

    I would like to know how fast the throw was by Elly to home plate. That was a strike.

  67. RedsGettingBetter

    Reds move at 2-11 in 1-run games

  68. Jeremiah

    Elly De La Cruz with the strike wow what a laser! Maybe some other Shortstops get the runner there, but he threw a perfect throw and got the runner easily.

  69. Melvin

    Cubs broadcaster calling out that 3B coach for sending that runner. Strange 😉

    • Harry Stoner

      That would suggest the Cubs’ runners pay attention to the 3rd and 1st base coaches?

      A novel concept, even if it failed in this situation.

  70. Harry Stoner

    As grim as the 9th inning was, that was a game the Reds would likely have lost anytime over the last 3-5 years.

    Or 7-10 years, if my bad memories are true.

    • Melvin

      I’m sure everything will be fine now. 😉

  71. Jeremiah

    Great throw by Hurtubise too…just great baseball there, picking up Diaz too. A one run win too, take it any way you can.

    • Melvin

      Yes. Hurtubise did also make a very good through to set up EDLC and his arm. That play was good fundamentals actually. 🙂

  72. Indy Red Man

    Counsell is one of the best managers, but yet they’re a bigger disappointment then the Reds….to the national media anyway.
    Firing Bell will only do so much? Maybe 3-4 wins a year if they’re going to hit like this

  73. Melvin

    Craig Counsell postgame – “We made some mistakes for sure”

    When I heard that I knew I wasn’t likely listening to the Reds postgame. 🙂

    • Harry Stoner

      One could only imagine how Bell would mumble his way through that if the situation was reversed.

      On second thought, it wouldn’t take much imagination as we’ve heard it dozens of times.

  74. Jeremiah

    Didn’t realize Bellinger was up after Suzuki…that’s a pretty bad play by the 3rd base Coach and Madrigal to go when it would have been 1 one out tying run, Bellinger up, and to run on the infielder with the best arm in baseball…exciting baseball though, Baseball is so much better when there is action defensively like that.

    • Melvin

      That last fly would have tied it up.

  75. Mike W

    All 6 teams above us in the Wild Card race lost tonight!
    The odds of that happening must be huge!
    A few more days like that and we’ll be right there.
    We screwed up against the Cards, but have plenty of divisional games left and if take 2 of every 3 we can be the WC.