Cincinnati took on division rival Chicago on Tuesday afternoon in Mesa. The Reds grabbed an early lead but couldn’t hold on as they picked up their first tie of the spring. That moved the Reds record to 3-1-1 in Arizona.

Game Recap: Reds 6 – Cubs 6

Cincinnati held a 1-0 lead from the 2nd inning until the 7th. They would add runs in both the 7th and 8th to jump out to a 6-0 lead. The bullpen – all minor leaguers up from minor league camp – couldn’t hold onto the lead as the Cubs scored four runs in the 8th to make it a ball game, and then they dinked-and-dunked their way to two more runs in the bottom of the 9th to tie things up. Out of pitchers on the day, the teams opted to call it a game at that point and both took a tie in the record book.

The Highlights

The Reds didn’t take too long to pick up their first hit on Tuesday afternoon. Will Benson crushed a triple into the right-center gap with one out in the 2nd inning. Nick Martini would drive Benson in on a sacrifice fly, giving Cincinnati a 1-0 lead.

Frankie Montas, who retired the side in order in the 1st inning, returned for the next inning with a lead. He made easy work of the Cubs in his second frame, too, picking up three straight ground outs to complete his day.

Connor Phillips wasn’t quite as good as Montas was, but he was plenty good enough. He threw 2.0 hitless innings. A lone walk went against his line in the box score on the day as he picked up two strikeouts along the way. Tony Santillan and Zach Maxwell both tossed perfect innings of relief to hold the lead.

The offense got moving in the top of the 7th when Jacob Hurtubise led off with a walk and then stole second base. He scored when Will Benson hit a grounder up the middle and turned it into an RBI double to make it 2-0 as he caught the Cubs defense asleep at the wheel. Benson then stole third base and scored on an RBI single by Daniel Vellojin. Unfortunately for Vellojin he had to exit the game a few pitches later as he took second base on a wild pitch, but collided with Cubs infielder and went down hard. He walked off under his own power, but appeared to be shaken up on the play.

Alan Busenitz gave up a leadoff double in the bottom of the inning, but retired the next three batters to hold onto a 3-0 lead. New pitcher for the Cubs in the 8th, but the results were the same. Edwin Arroyo doubled, Erik Gonzalez walked, and then Jacob Hurtubise singled in Arroyo to make it 4-0. Mat Nelson came off of the bench to pinch hit for Tyler Stephenson and came through with a sacrifice fly to extend the lead. Conor Capel then doubled into the right field corner to keep the run-train rolling.

The Cubs finally got on the board in the bottom of the 8th inning, taking advantage of some control issues from Carson Rudd, who came over from minor league camp. He hit the first batter he faced, then walked the next two. Rudd then gave up a 2-run single before walking the next batter. He was replaced by Owen Holt, who was also over from minor league camp. Holt got a double play to start his outing, but then gave up a 2-run triple that made it 6-4.

Jake Gozzo took over in the bottom of the 9th inning, looking to hold onto a 2-run lead. The first batter he faced, Brennan Davis, doubled into the right-center gap. The next batter blooped one into left field to put runners on the corners. A sacrifice fly followed, but the Reds kept the trail runner at first base on the play. Gozzo got a weak fly ball into shallow right field for the second out of the inning. Chicago extended the game with a grounder through the infield to put the tying run at second base and winning run at first. Another weak contact flare into left field fell in for a game-tying RBI double that Jacob Hurtubise came up about two inches short of catching on a dive. The inning would end when Gozzo struck out Matt Shaw. Neither team had pitching to continue and called it a day.

You can see the box score for the game here.

Wednesday’s Game

The Reds have Wednesday off. They’ll return to the field on Thursday night as they take on the Los Angeles Dodgers on MLB Network at 8:05pm ET.

49 Responses

  1. LDS

    Rudd and Gozzo really didn’t capitalize on their opportunities. Certainly that’s true of several so far. Luckily, it’s early.

    • Harry Stoner

      Taking disappointment wherever you can find it (or fabricate it).

      Rudd-Holt Unlimited are A/A+ level pitchers come over from Minor League camp to mop up in a ST game.

      Wouldn’t want those A-ball pitchers letting the team down when the playoffs are at stake.

      Thankfully, it’s ‘early’.

      But if you’re going to find something to whine about, they’ll have to do.

  2. Mark Moore

    Blown leads will happen. Hate that it happened against the Stupid Cubs!

  3. J

    If Benson keeps doing what he’s been doing and continues hitting 8th or 9th for this team, certain people on this site are going to dislike me even more than they already do.

    • Jim t

      Why would people dislike you for expressing your opinion? That is what this site is about.

      • 2020ball

        Thats happens to me all that time, completely understandable though with my style.

      • J

        Good question, Jim. The reason some people dislike me is that every time Bell insists on having his best OPS guy hitting 8th or 9th, I’m likely to post a comment or two about how illogical and counterproductive it is to have your best OPS guy hitting 8th or 9th, which bothers certain people because I’m being “repetitive and negative.” Eventually, after much bickering about whether I ought to keep pointing out Bell’s mistakes every time he makes them or just sit back and enjoy the season and appreciate the fact that all the players love playing for Bell and they play hard for him (because apparently they’d be very lazy if they were playing for a manager who yelled at them sometimes), Doug will chime in to tell me I’m violating the site’s policies because I keep pointing out Bell’s mistakes again and again, and then he and I will bicker about whether he’s selectively enforcing the policies by ignoring all the personal attacks against me (and against others who constantly criticize Bell). He’ll say he knows nothing about all these personal attacks and ask me to report them, which I’ll never bother to do because there are so many of them. This is a routine I believe we’ve perfected at this point in Bell’s regime. We all know our roles and we nail it every time.

        Now, if Benson suddenly starts hitting at the top of the lineup when he’s the hottest hitter on the team, this could throw a wrench into everything, but I’ve come to believe that’s not really an option.

      • 2020ball

        Haha woah…. I say let it go dude. FWIW we frequently disagree but agree here, Benson’s earned a chance at a bigger role and should have more ABs per game not less. However if the rest of the lineup is performing, im willing to forgive it, or it doesnt hold as much urgency in that case for me. To each his own though.

        I constantly ruffle feathers without the use of personal attacks, though people tend to think i am attacking them anyway. During some of those comments Ive been called fat, friendless, etc etc etc, it actually might’ve been you even that called me “probably fat”, to which ill simply laugh. Its the internet, theres a great deal of moral expectations given its just a sports message board. Youre going to get challenged in ways you’d rather not, thats implicit to any internet forum.

      • J

        2020, I don’t attack people that way. I can 100% guarantee I’ve never called you fat, friendless, or anything of that sort. Not my style.

        Also, let me be clear that I absolutely WELCOME real debates about my comments. I’m not afraid of being challenged on here, because I believe I’ve got logic (and math) on my side. What I don’t really care for are the comments like “you’re a miserable human being” or “you obviously have no friends” or “you’re Debbie Downer” or “you must be loads of fun at parties” and stuff like that in response to comments about David Bell’s strategic decisions. It’s not like I’m so hurt that I go cry myself to sleep; I just think it’s obnoxious and stupid and has nothing to do with the Reds, and presumably we’re here mainly to discuss the Reds rather than each other’s personalities.

      • 2020ball

        Fair enough, it was someone with a short one or two letter screenname. My apologies for insinuating anything.

      • J

        2020, there’s at least one other person who’s started posting under the “J” name, so it’s possible some other J insulted you, but I haven’t seen them do anything like that. (It’s a real shame this site allows multiple people to use the same name. Something really needs to be done about that.)

      • Doug Gray

        It’s hilarious to me that I saw this comment. I’ve read like 8 comments today and saw the one where you acknowledge you are violating the rules of the site but are mad because I called you out on it at some point in the past.

        Well I’m gonna do it again. Stop complaining about the lineup every single day. David Bell ain’t reading it.

        I’m being 1000% serious here – stuff like what you do (among other things) is why there is nearly nowhere that allows comments on the internet anymore. It’s why every single day I come closer to turning off the ability to comment.

        I’m not selectively applying rules. I’m literally just a guy who does not have time to read 500 comments per day and still actually get work done. I spend like 70-80 hours a week working on this whole “write about baseball for a living” thing during time from the start of spring through the end of the season. Zero off days. It’s been literally 10 years since I truly took an off day.

        I don’t want to be a forum moderator and read unhinged rants. I want to write about baseball. I continue to allow commenting here, but I’m telling you and everyone else – I get closer to turning off that option every day because of the kind of crap you post (or claim to post above). We get it, you think that David Bell couldn’t manage a lemonade stand. Some others agree with you. Great. There’s no need to post about it every single day. There’s no need to argue about it every single day with no one who can possibly change your concerns. All it does is make you angry, and others angry (either because they agree with you, or because they disagree with what you’re saying and then you all argue with each other and apparently get into insulting matches or something like it).

        Take a break. Watch the game. Give it a listen. Stay logged off for a bit. See how it goes for you when you don’t scream at no one about something you’ll never be able to control.

      • J

        Doug, there’s just so much wrong with what you’re saying, I hardly know where to begin. I’ll try to focus on the big stuff and ignore the little stuff. We’ve had this very same discussion before, and I still 1000% seriously see LOTS of sports blogs that allow comments, and most allow commenters to say whatever they want (including “bad words”) unless they’re posting threats, racial slurs, etc. I 1000% honestly have no idea what you’re even talking about with this idea that comments are hardly even allowed on the internet anymore. Lots of blogs allow comments. Lots of sports blogs allow comments. Lots of BIG sports blogs allow comments. Should I list a bunch of sports blogs that allow comments to prove I’m not making this up?

        The other thing that leaps out at me is the ironic fact that the arguments we have on here — including those having to do with lineups and other dumb things Bell does — seem to create a lot MORE traffic, not LESS. You’re acting as if they’re killing your blog because some people don’t like negativity in comments, but in fact they seem generate more comments (see, e.g., what has happened in this article), which one would think is good for a website that wants to sell advertising. I return to the site again and and again and again to look at new comments, not to re-read the articles. Anyone who doesn’t like the comments can just read the articles and not look at the comments. It seems like a win-win situation.

        But be my guest. Turn off the comments. Block me and everyone else who says negative things about lineups. I suspect your traffic will drop quite a bit. I like this blog, obviously, and I’ve had some really good discussions and debates here, but I can get Reds information elsewhere and post comments elsewhere. I can even debate you elsewhere, because we both use the same social media site (where people are allowed to say almost any kind of nonsense, which actually seems to be an annoyingly successful formula).

        And maybe it’s YOU who needs to take a break, Doug. Take some time to recharge. Watch some baseball without having to write about it or worry about what people might be saying in comments. From what I can tell, you seem pretty miserable doing this blog thing. It seems like it’s more of a burden than a joy. You complain about some of your most loyal commenters because we’re “boring” and “repetitive” and “negative,” you complain about how hard it is to keep the blog afloat, you complain about how much time and effort it takes. Maybe if you step away for a while you’ll discover you’re happier. Maybe it’s time to find a successor who’ll be satisfied, rather than annoyed, when people post comments on their blog that are on-topic, non-threatening, non-hateful, intelligent, and well written — even if those comments are “repetitive,” “boring,” and “negative.”

        To illustrate this point, I’d guess well over 90% of my comments on this blog have had nothing to do with lineups. I’ve posted hundreds (if not thousands) of comments that are neutral or positive. I’ve posted hundreds (if not thousands) of comments that aren’t critical of Bell in any way. I’ve even posted some comments that defend Bell when I think he’s being unfairly attacked. I don’t recall you EVER responding to one of my comments with something like “good point” or “I agree” or “here’s the information you’re wondering about.” But it’s not as if you never interact with me. You do interact with me sometimes — either to scold me or insist I’m wrong about something. Ask yourself why that is. Why are you unable to appreciate all my “good” comments and only interact when you notice something “bad”? Do you even recognize that I make neutral and positive comments here — comments that have nothing to do with lineups, many of which you’d probably agree with — or are you only able to see the stuff you don’t like? It feels like you only see the stuff you don’t like, which makes me think you’re just not enjoying this very much.

        To be clear: I keep talking about myself, but there are other commenters who seem to have same kind of relationship with you. They also say lots of stuff that has nothing to do with lineups or Bell — including stuff you’d probably agree with — but you only interact with them to scold, belittle, argue, suspend, ban, etc. It just seems like you’re only noticing the bad stuff and ignoring all the other stuff. It’s exactly what I’m being accused of, is it not?

      • Doug Gray


        I know exactly where my traffic comes from and let me tell ya right now that it’s not all that much from the people who post comments. Would traffic take a small step back if I turned off comments? Yeah, probably by about 5-10%. Maybe less because some of the crap constantly argued about in the comments turns people away.

        But no, it’s not a “win-win” situation. The comments section requires time to deal with. I don’t have that time every day. Sometimes I have more time than others. It creates a whole lot of headaches for me, too.

        Most websites are not allowing comments these days. Why? Because they aren’t in the moderation business. Yeah man, some places still have comment sections. Most don’t.

        As for the job – yeah man, it ain’t great. The part that isn’t great is dealing with people who just constantly whine and complain that I have to read every single day. Whether it’s in the comments here or on twitter. That stuff was not a part of “the job” when I started it. For people who have never actually had to deal with it, you just don’t know what you don’t know. I really don’t know what to tell ya – I’ve seen just how bad it gets the more traffic you tend to get. I used to love to interact and talk baseball online. Then I started seeing tens of thousands of visits per day and with that came the kinds of discussions that really weren’t discussions, but people screaming into the void that happens to be my ears.

        I don’t complain about anyone being “boring”. Just repetitive and (constantly) negative. Making a negative comment every so often is fine, especially when it’s warranted. Being repetitively negative 10 times a day? Seek therapy. This is sports. It’s supposed to be fun. An escape.

        I’d love to step away and just retire. Alas, that isn’t an option for me. People that comment on a website? Yeah, they can totally just not comment on a website. It’s not going to lead to them not being able to pay their rent/mortgage/electric bill. The two things aren’t comparable.

        As for my responses to your comments – I will reiterate again that I don’t read them all. There isn’t enough time in the day. But I do sometimes see a comment at the top (how I see the comments is a lot different than how the public sees them on the site) that catches my eye and in turn makes me seek out the comment they’re replying to. Somehow that seems to have happened a lot with your comments and you seem to know exactly why people respond to you in the way that they do since you noted it above. THAT is probably why I respond to your “negative” comments. They tend to be easier to see and find because others are responding to them more frequently and in turn that makes them far more likely that I do happen to see them when I have a second to check some comments.

        as for the last sentence you posted – I don’t know what the heck you think you’re being accused of other than stuff you’ve stated you do – being repetitive about David Bell’s lineups. You don’t have to do that every day. Or even every week.

      • DaveCT


        I suggest you start your own blog.

        You cannot win. You will not win.

        Move on.

    • Optimist

      OTOH, I’m of the belief that Benson is perfect at 8/9, and might flounder if moved up. On a lesser roster he’d certainly be moved up, but with this group there is no urgency, and perhaps ultimately no need to do so. If anything, keep him there to see if he can avoid the platoon and prove himself worthy of more ABs.

      It’s a team full of small sample sizes, but adding Candelario and retaining India tempers that to a small extent, thus allowing them time to determine who best fits where.

      • J

        “On a lesser roster he’d certainly be moved up” is false. Last year he was hitting at the bottom of the lineup when he had the highest OPS on the team. He was hitting behind AAA players, guys who got cut for being such bad hitters, guys in terrible slumps, etc. It made no difference who was in the lineup or who the pitcher was — Benson was at the bottom.

        “might flounder if moved up” — this same logic would have kept Votto hitting at the bottom of the order, which is where he started out. Thankfully, Dusty eventually decided he could probably handle being moved up even though he didn’t KNOW Votto could handle it until he tried it. To my knowledge, there has never in the history of baseball been a case of a guy hitting incredibly well at #8 and then being stuck at #8 for the rest of his career due to fears that he might flounder if he ever moved up. Why? Because it’s illogical to assume a guy who can hit at #8 can’t hit at #5 or #1. What’s so special about Benson that makes anyone think he’ll flounder? Guy was the #14 overall pick. He was expected to be a star. Got paid millions of dollars based on his baseball skills. He isn’t some random guy who’s just amazed to be playing professional baseball. And he’s already overcome more baseball adversity than almost anyone else on this team. Hasn’t seemed to damage him.

    • greenmtred

      I thought that I saw that Benson was batting 6th today. The issue of where in the order Benson hits can be a diverting little mini-drama that we can ponder during slow moments.

      • J

        Yeah, he’s hitting 6th with no Fraley, MM, Marte, CES, or India in the lineup. It’s not hard to guess what’s going to happen when most of those guys are available.

    • Melvin

      Benson batting higher than 7th today. That’s not allowed even in spring training is it? 😉

    • Michael

      Again we were at the game today – Benson played his A** off. That double was a very hard hit ball up the middle. I thought it was a single and was watching Hurtubise fly around 3rd to score – looked back to Benson and he was belly sliding into 2nd to beat the throw. No way that hit should have been a double except for Benson’s all out hustle. The guy’s desire is off the charts!

  4. RedsGettingBetter

    Edwin Arroyo doing marvelous plays again and he hit a double too… Top prospect, keep an eye on him this 2024…
    It’s huge Frankie Montas tossing a couple of solid innings, pretty good.
    Will Benson could be a key player this season for the Reds to clinch a play-off spot…

    • DaveCT

      Arroyo’s play was not just spectacular, but it came at a key time and saved runs

      This kid could be arriving sooner than we think. He just looks like he belongs.

      • Andy

        “Sooner than we think” means “on another team” to me. I don’t see a fit on this roster for the next 4 years.

      • J

        Andy, just wait until MM and Marte are injured and Elly has struck out 20 out of his last 32 at-bats. You’ll see a fit sooner than you think.

      • 2020ball

        Lol woah there doom and gloom. I was gonna say a need could arise but you took that quite a bit further. Heres to hoping EDLC serves you that big plate of crow this season.

      • J

        Yeah, I would sure hope to be wrong about this stuff for a change. But unfortunately one thing I’ve learned to count on every year is that key guys are going to be injured for months and at least one or two of the healthy guys will suddenly forget everything they ever knew about hitting. It would be great to be wrong about that, but an oblique “tweak” is how it always starts…

      • DaveCT

        Andy, that’s a fallacy. India is under contract for just two years, controllable for three. And that’s if he can take the field. So the three-man rotation in the middle infield is possibly less than three, for one. Second, Arroyo’s defense really is that good. India’s is not, though I’d like to see him both healthy and not having to cover for Joey Votto’s defensive limitations. At some point India will be the odd man out. He’ll depart by free agency or by trade. As will, eventually, others, to be supplemented or replaced by the young infielders at A ball.

      • 2020ball

        I mean yeah, injuries will happen. You coulda just stopped there and cut out the needless negativity, but that being my biggest criticism of ball-sport fans its of course how i’ll read/react to it.

      • VegasRed

        Keith Law tried to say Arroyo would be lucky to stick at SS.

    • Michael

      We were at the game today and I have developed a huge man crush on Edwin Arroyo.
      That DP ball was exceptionally hard hit, he had to go to his R, leap catch it across his body, then pivot and fire it immediately back to 2nd to barely get the DP – just awesome!

      • DaveCT

        I watched him a bunch last season on MiLN tv. He’s different. Seems like a truly great kid. And he oozes talent.

  5. MBS

    Who knows how things progress but I like this lineup.

    1 Friedl (CF) 2 McLain (2B) 3 Candelario (3B)
    4 CES (1B) 5 Benson (RF) 6 Steer (LF)
    7 Fraley (DH) 8 Stephenson (C) 9 EDLC (SS)

    Now if EDLC starts hitting like he’s capable of that switches things up a lot, but I like the idea of taking pressure off of him. It seemed to work for Benson, why not try it with EDLC?

    • Jim t

      I like that line up against Righthanders but I really don’t like Fraley or Benson against lefties.

      • 2020ball

        Im willing to give Benson a bit more rope vesus LHP, Fraley should essentially never face it.

  6. VaRedsFan

    Most all of the 26-man pitchers are doing well so far, which falls into what Brantley said on the radio today. He mentioned the hitters will catch up in the next few weeks as the pitchers enter the dead arm portion of Spring.

    Benson is immune so far, obviously.

  7. Tom Noonan

    Steer is too clutch to bat down at 6th. I’d move him up ahead of Candelario. Or maybe Benson ahead of Cadelario and Steer 5th, CES 6th. This is a fun lineup to play with.

    I do hope Elly gets it going.

    • 2020ball

      To follow-up my earlier comment, if guys are performing the lineup order is essentially pointless to complain about since any combo will be decent. My preference for Candelario might be 5th or 6th, but im expecting him to be higher most nights. Do i see a need to tear my hair out over it? nope not really.

      Far too much nitpicking is made of the batting order on a nightly basis, seems tiring to me but people will engage in it anyway. IMO just bat your best players near the top so they get more ABs, simple and clean.

      • J

        It’s tiring to me when people complain about comments that deal with Reds baseball on a Reds blog. There are “so many” comments about Bell’s silly lineups because Bell uses so many silly lineups. It sort of makes sense. If Bell had a hamster playing third base five times a week, people would complain about the hamster every day, which it seems to me they should do. But some people would respond “enough complaining about the hamster. I’m so tired of those complaints. It’s just one position out of 9, and the hamster doesn’t even play every day. And it’s not like there’s a star sitting on the bench. Stop nitpicking.”

      • 2020ball

        Well then ill tire you out quick because whats tiring to me is all the complaining, especially trivial complaints like a line-up or a depth signing. A manager’s line-up can be micro-analyzed by any fan on any team, everyday and for eternity. Im not interested in being that fan, there’s far too many IMO. Im critical of the team and the manager too, i just try and pick my spots more. Or i like to think i do.

  8. SR

    I think lineup placement is more in the head of the batter than anything else. What does he think is expected of him in a particular spot. When India led off, he was focused on getting on base. He was always taking HBP’s. When he moved down, he went into RBI guy mode and away from getting on baseto pulling pitches and trying to drive it Benson might approach his at bats differently as 2 hole hitter versus #8. He might not as he seems to be a real student of hitting but we don’t know for sure. Many think India production suffered when moved from the lead off spot. So too could Benson.
    Other players just want in the lineup. Anywhere. And they hit the same wherever they bat because they don’t worry about adapting to perceptions of line up position. They let the manager make the lineup. Steer certainly hit that way last year where-ever he was batting.

    • Mauired

      I thought India looked better and more natural when moved out of leadoff. He stopped hitting when he got hurt. He’s a run producer not a table setter.

      Friedl is the perfect lead off hitter in my book. Gets on a ton. One of if not the best bunter in baseball. And steals a lot of bases. I don’t even care about the surprising pop he has but I’ll take it. Friedl is the ideal lead off hitter the Reds have been looking for several years.

  9. Mauired

    Just curious if anyone knows where to find Benson’s minor league career splits? I think I recall from looking season to season before that the splits were not too drastic to rule out being an everyday player. He’s definitely a late bloomer even though only 25, Cleveland had him for several years before giving up on him. He’s got off the charts potential. Power, speed, and on base skills. Bell will definitely move him up in the order this season, and I think Benson like Friedl last year is going to make it really tough to bench him against lefties as well. My hope is Elly and Benson both take it to the next level and are hitting 3 and 4. Two potential 30/30 (or better) players hitting back to back.

    I love Fraley’s game too but he really has struggled with injuries and left handed pitchers. But he’s a great weapon backing up all OF positions and DH.

    A lot of people have been concerned about backup CF if Friedl goes down. Fraley can backup and then Fairchild and Barrero are in the mix as well. But if Friedl goes to IL, Hurtubise is a only a phone call away and he’s looking like TJ Friedl part 2. Just a solid all around game and an exciting young player. He seems capable of holding his own as the starter if anything happens.

    • 2020ball

      We often disagree but i agree with pretty much all of this. Hurtubise’s power is very concerning to me, as it essentially means he has to be in CF to be starter caliber, but i never count out guys like him with other tools that play. Friedl is a prime example of why not, i always held hope for him and he’s far exceeded my expectations. Not sure on Fraley in CF for any extended period, but im sure he could play there in a spot situation.

      I tired minorleaguesplits dot com but no luck, there was some data but it was missing the year he broke out in AAA.

  10. Mike

    No matter the team or the player, a team’s BEST OPS (on base plus slugging) — guy, who also had speed and power last year — should obviously NOT have been hitting 8th or 9th.
    At one point Benson and Shohei were #1 and #2 in OPS in the Majors! You don’t reward super performance like that by having the player hit 8th or 9th.
    All that does is guarantee the League’s best OPS guy gets the fewest AB’s on our team. Why Mr. Manager, why did you do that to Bell?

    • 2020ball

      Because it worked?

      Y’all are setting your selves up for the classic “im pleasantly surprised” line, i wouldnt be the least bit surprised to see him higher in the order.

  11. Mike

    Benson, not Bell.
    But teh question remains.