Earlier this week Jon Morosi of MLB Network reported that the Cincinnati Reds were actively involved in trade discussions with three or four teams around infielder Jonathan India. He also noted that at the time nothing was likely to happen within the few hours after his report.

Nick Krall, the Reds President of Baseball Operations, spoke with the Cincinnati Enquirer’s Gordon Wittenmyer, and refuted the idea that the club is motivated to move him.

““I wouldn’t say we are motivated (to trade India). If a deal comes around, we have to be open to anything. But just motivated to move players off your roster just because ‘that guy might not fit (a specific spot).’ That doesn’t make any sense.”

When it comes to Jonathan India there are a lot of things at play. MLB Trade Rumors projects his salary, via arbitration, to be $3,700,000 for the 2024 season. That’s next to nothing, but it’s also about five times what any other infielder on the club is going to be making since everyone else has yet to reach arbitration.

India, unlike everyone else on the Reds infield who isn’t a first baseman, has only played one position in the big leagues. For the 2021 National League Rookie of the Year, that position is second base. He did play third base in college and some in the minor leagues, too, but his only time in the field in the big leagues has come at second base.

That could be important because Noelvi Marte, Elly De La Cruz, Matt McLain, and Spencer Steer can and have been asked to play multiple spots on the field. Not just that, with that group, along with Christian Encarnacion-Strand and Jonathan India, it’s tough to find every day playing time for everyone involved. Even if we take into account Steer playing some outfield and the designated hitter spot, those aren’t going to be every single day things. And when they aren’t, someone from that group is going to be on the outside looking in from the dugout.

Cincinnati could get creative and work with a good rotation of that group to try and get everyone in the lineup five days a week. It would certainly make the bench stronger every single day. But it’s also possible, and very likely that if you trade someone from that group for another big leaguer, that the result would be a better team given that you probably aren’t trading for a bench player.

The winter meetings haven’t even started yet, but the stove is warming up. Cincinnati’s not going to come out and openly say “we’re trying to trade so-and-so”. That would be silly. Not only does it give other teams the idea that they can low-ball you, but if you make such a statement and then you don’t wind up trading that player, there could be some issues with how that player feels about the club. You want to avoid stuff like that. We’re still months away from the start of spring training. Plenty of time to see how things play out.

96 Responses

  1. Mark Moore

    It’s the response we’d expect. I think everybody “knows” they’ll trade India above any other player if the deal looks worth it. But they don’t “have” to do it.

    I’m hoping they either find a good package that brings back pitching for 2024, or they sit him down and let him know he’s #3 on the 2B depth chart, so break in a 1B mitt and DH mindset. It’s about what is best for the team at this point. IMO, that isn’t RoY India at 2B for 130+ games.

    • JayTheRed

      If there are no injuries, why can’t he be rookie of the year India!!! Seriously. The guy has so much drive and determination. He is currently only 26 years old. Yes, his defense is not the best but from a batting standpoint, He could do what he has done just 2 years ago again. Having a strong bench is not a bad thing to have and if they do a rotation type thing it could definitely help the team overall keep everyone rested.

      The majority of this infield has not played a full season of MLB level play.

      • Mark Moore

        If his bat produces, then keeping him at DH/1B is my preference (as stated). I also love his determination and approach. I’m not so fond of him hiding his injury like he did, but I do get competitive guys have a tendency to do that type of thing. Frankly, that’s more on HDTBell and the coaching staff for not figuring it out sooner.

        While the majority of the projected IF hasn’t played a full season, I only figure that into the offensive mix. Their defense is fine and I’m the kind of fan who places high importance on solid D, especially up the middle. I’d still rather see Matty Mc at SS and EDLC at 3B, but that’s just me.

      • Earmbrister

        I believe Mark is calling India “RoY” much like I call Mark “Debbie” (after he was being a downer a few years back). I think we would all like the rookie version of India and/or an upside from that year, but the results have been mediocre since then. Are the diminishing returns due to injury or has the rest of the league adjusted to him and he hasn’t been able to respond accordingly?

        I was a Nick Senzel fan, and attributed his mediocre results to injuries. After several years of saying, this is the year that Senzel is going to break out, I have to admit that I was wrong. Sometimes high draft picks excel, sometimes they bust, and sometimes they’re just mediocre.

        Let youth be served, India should be traded for pitching.

      • Jimbo44CN

        They need to keep India, a leader on this team and one of the few veterans. Also need to put him back at leadoff, where when healthy he does well. What pitcher would you get in a trade for him of any value? How many are out there? Snell, no, Wacha, he– no, who else? Sonny, maybe but as much as I like him, he’s going to be 34 and still very expensive, Nola, not gonna happen, Reds wont pay him either. Who then, Miley, great guy but he’s 37 and had quite a few injuries the last couple of years. Keep INdia, smartest thing we can do at this point.

      • Optimist

        Jimbo – those pitchers are all FAs – India’s status, and salary, doesn’t affect the Reds efforts to sign any of them.

      • Mark Moore

        Thanks earbrister. That’s exactly what I mean when I say RoY India.

    • Josh G

      Id still like to see how he looks at 3B

  2. Optimist

    Is it possible India could also play 3b? It was his primary position thru MiLB until he got the callup. Any reason he couldn’t take some time there? Would it help his defense?

    Mark’s take is correct, no need to trade him, but he is the most valuable, experienced trade chip they have on the roster, and at peak value with years of control left.

    I’d prefer to keep him, but there are a few teams that may make a silly offer for him.

    He’d be even more valuable playing 3rd if any of the rookies falter starting their second season.

    • Mark Moore

      I’m thinking his arm rating says he’s about 3rd or 4th on the 3B depth chart. Kind of like with Senzel, that ship sailed. But if 1B isn’t an option, I’d probably prefer him at 3B on a semi-regular basis. Though, again, Marte showed some stuff to us and we all saw what EDLC was capable of doing there.

      With him as a Boras client, his time with the Reds likely ends when his arb years run out. That’s just the way this business works these days. Boras is 2nd from the bottom on my “list” for baseball bad guys. Manfred the owner lapdog is at the bottom 😀

      • Mark Moore

        HDTBell#100 is with us until the end of time as we know it, Melvin … 😮

      • Optimist

        This all makes sense – if the rookies perform India is 2nd or 3rd backup anywhere.

        I don’t mind Boras at all – if someone performs, good for them. If they don’t, Boras can’t do much to help that. We’ll see what he can do for Nick, but I doubt it’s much more than some team willing to give him a chance at this point – the salary won’t matter.

        Boras may be valuable at the very top end – say another year or an extra $10M on a huge contract, but the Reds aren’t really in that market anyway.

        If the Reds are going to trade India it will be before the trade deadline this season – they’ll know by then if the infield is full, and India will still have peak value.

      • Mark Moore

        And that’s fine, Optimist. As I stated, no big rush to trade him offseason.

        I will say I have more “legitimate hope” for our boys than I’ve had in quite some time. I think 2024 could be something pretty special.

      • Jayce

        How about that owner Loria I think his name. Who snuffed like three cities and got Miami taxpayers to vote to borrow money from himself to build his team’s own stadium?

  3. MBS

    This is what I’ve been saying for a long time now. Below from Nick Krall,

    “If you said, ’Hey, you’ve got guys coming behind him or you’ve got guys that are pushing him out or that he doesn’t have a spot to play,’ that’s one thing. But he does have a spot to play here. There are at-bats here. Are they going to be 650, 700 plate appearances in a season? No, but that also gives you the ability to give guys days off and keep guys fresh and healthy throughout the course of the year.”

    2 things. The depth is very helpful when injuries occur, and it also gives you the ability to give players time off to keep them healthy and sharp.

    I don’t think we have a 162 player on the roster. Best case is a couple of 145’s, but mostly 120’s and 130’s type of guys. I just hope they continue to add to make us a bit stronger.

    • Jason Franklin

      I totally agreed with you and Krall. After he explained the comfort of having a very versatile team makeup (a lot of players who are not egotistical and don’t mind sharing the wealth), then he may be on to something. The Reds are also very lucky to have a team of pretty talented guys, especially IF’s. Now, what they really need to do then is to openthe changepurses and buy some pitchers.

    • BK

      Absolutely right. We need depth to compete for the 162-game season and beyond. It’s truly a marathon.

    • Tar Heel Red

      MBS< I would love to see the Reds employ a "rotational day off" system like Sparky Anderson did with the BRM. Other than Pete, each player got a day off every 5-6 games…regardless of who they were facing on the mound, RH/LH didn't matter. Sparky used several utility types to accomplish this…Darrell Chaney, Bill Plummer, Ed Armbrister etc… This is why the "great eight" only played something like 65-70 games together, and it worked well. Kept the starters fresh all season.

      Of course, with David Bell at the helm I have zero confidence this will happen. He, and the organization will continue to be obsessed with spin rates and replacing a starting pitcher before he faces the opposing lineup a third time and depleting your bench by pinch hitting two or three straight batters in the sixth inning so that they can face an opposite handed pitcher, etc, etc, etc…

      • greenmtred

        It’s worth remembering who the players were at Sparky’s disposal. As in any endeavor, you work with what you have.

  4. Votto4life

    I don’t know. There were rumors the Reds were open to trading India last summer. It’s probably too late to take India’s feelings into consideration.

  5. Rob

    Despite what Krall may think, this team needs solid improvement pieces IF they wish to contend in 2024. Improvement pieces can be acquired via trades or signing of free agents ($$$). Everything I have seen or heard whispered is that the Reds have been averse to solid ($15M+) free agent signings and tend to aim for the bargain bin (<$10M) guys. And gosh, we have powerful trade assets including excess young high potential pitchers and infielders. I truly understand the Reds don’t need to trade India. But let Krall get the next words out that he doesn’t need to acquire several solid improvement pieces. Yeah, Nick you need to either trade some of your promising assets or you need to spend about $45M to get the improvement pieces you need. Simple, not complicated. For a guy so rich in trade assets and susposedly so restricted in available money, the choice seems obvious to me. Doing little or going halfway will only get you the same results you saw last year. So much more can be accomplished. Yeah, you can trade the wrong guy and be criticized but that is a risk we need to take. Can’t not try to improve this team.

  6. RedBB

    India could get some OF reps as a RHB now that Senzel is gone.

  7. Amarillo

    In a game where a third of your roster is going to be injured at any given time, there is no such thing as a logjam. Even on the 75′ Reds, possibly the greatest team of all time, Morgan started 141 games, but no one else started that many at a position. They used 10 infielders that year. We currently have only 7 infielders on the 40-man, India, McLain, Elly, CES, Marte, Steer, Barrero. What happens when someone gets injured for a lengthy amount to time? We also have the DH.

    Keep India. Pitching on the trade market costs much more than hitting does, which means India isn’t going to fetch more than a 5 starter. We need more than 9 starting quality players on our team.

    • Greenfield Red

      Agree Amarillo. I may also suggest that last Summer, teams wanted a fortune for starting pitching, and NK correctly refused to pay the price. Now teams want JI from the Reds, but refuse to pay NK’s price. Good for him. Don’t back down Nick.

      If some team comes back to the Reds willing to pay NK’s asking price, then the deal should happen. Until then, NK needs to begin spending money. I’ve seen a few others talking about rooting for another team while the Reds struggled during this rebuild. No me. It’s the Reds or nothing. In the end, if this rebuild is botched by a cheap owner, I will just go away. As Reds fans, we all have our own way of coping with the losing. It’s up to ownership now, and we are all watching. It is clearly time to win.

      • Votto4life

        Yeah, I can’t root for another team either, but I can stop following baseball.

        I love baseball history, so I’ll just continue to read about its glory days. To be honest today’s product is not all that interesting IMO.

        If the Reds don’t spend money when their payroll sits at $31 million, then they are never going to spend.

      • Greenfield Red

        Agree V4L. It’s put up or shut up time. As you know, I’m one of the few hold outs. I think I see what they’ve been doing for the last two years to correct 20 years of bad decisions. But now it’s time to spend. If they don’t, I’ll give up as so many others have.

      • Greenfield Red

        One of the reasons I believe in NK and this rebuild is an article I read by a Yankee writer regarding the Castillo trade. He said the Yankees made their final offer for Castillo and are just waiting for the Reds to give in to their demands. That’s not what NK did. No Volpe… no deal. Instead, he changed the tune, traded LC to Seattle for more than the Yankees ever would have paid.

      • RedsMonk65

        @Amarillo & Greenfield — All good points. Like how you think.

  8. Tar Heel Red

    To me the Reds have very little at the major league level that is tradable for much/any value in return…including India. I would much rather keep him (and the rest of the infield intact) and consider it a strength. The Reds main tradable assets are in the minor leagues. They have an overabundance of middle infielders so I say decide who you wish to keep and trade the rest.

    At shortstop they have Arroyo (age 20/ETA of 2025), Cabrera (19/2026), Stafura (19/2027), Acosta (19/2025), Balcazar (19/2026) and others. The Reds should determine which two or so they want to keep for the future and trade the rest.

    Third Base – Collier (18/2025) or Stewart (19/2026). Same thing…pick one, trade the other. If you think about it, because of the youth at these positions on the major league team, the prospects who the Reds do not choose to keep are redundant, and therefore serve little/no purpose to the organization. They need to be used as an asset to acquire what the Reds really need which is, of course, pitching, pitching and more pitching.

    Those who think that Castellini is going to spend big money on free agent pitchers are fooling themselves. Being in a small market and with less money coming in from Diamond Sports in 2024 (or no money in 2025 and beyond…a very real possibility) this team is not going to spend $20M on a starting pitcher. It is just not going to happen, so the alternative is to use the assets you have and trade for younger, more controllable/cheaper players.

    • west larry

      I don’t disagree with what you are saying – but I remember when they traded several players to San Diego to acquire an ace. One of the decisions was which catcher to include in the trade. They kept Marasco and traded the other catcher. Marasco had to retire about eight years ago because of bad hips and a shoulder. The other catcher is still playing, is that bad luck or are the reds truly cursed when making trades. Let’s not bring up Frank Robinson,,,

      • Oldtimer

        Latos did pretty well as a Red. He wasn’t an Ace SP.

    • Greenfield Red

      How are they to know which one to pick at each position? If that could be known years in advance I would tend to agree. But it’s not knowable so they must put as many into the pipeline as they can.

      • west larry

        For Greenfield Red: Krall has made good trades. The return for Gray was great, The return for Castillo could turn out great too. I will trust in Krall, as it was a knucklehead who traded Robinson, and just bad luck in the Marasco trade.

      • JayTheRed

        It’s called rolling the dice. If you have multiple good players playing in lower minors or mid minors, then it’s impossible to know who will turn out to be good or who falls flat. Like mentioned above, the fact that most of our infield is under 25 years old. Exception is India but I too want to keep him around at age 26.

        Nobody is going to get all the answers correct on which player to keep and which to trade but look for trends and do the best you can to keep the better trending player.

    • MBS

      The one thing about spending money is the old adage, you have to spend money to make money. Last year the Reds picked up 600,000 fans in the ballpark. If we use a value of $50 per fan, that’s $30M in added revenue over the previous season. In the early teens when the reds were ok, they were drawing close to 500,000 more fans than they did last season, or $25M more in potential revenue.

      Those were mediocrely good teams, so imagine if this team takes off. I think that could result in upwards of $50M over last season.they’re not going to take off like that without some FA help.

      • BK

        The Reds need to spend this offseason. They also need to do so wisely. The Nationals went big in the FA market for pitching before 2019. They struck gold in 2019, but neither Corbin nor Strasburg performed well after the first year. As I’ve said before, I would take a risk on Yamamoto. Otherwise, I avoid the top of the market and look for shorter deals. The Reds could include higher AAV over the next two years, but the arb bills will start coming due three years down the road.

        In short, you have to spend to make money, but overspending can have the opposite effect on a small-to-mid-market MLB team.

    • Colorado Red

      But if Bally fails, how much could they make selling MLB.tv to the Local market.
      I would think they could 500K in all there markets.
      They would replace most if not all the money

  9. TR

    I don’t think keeping or trading India is an either or situation. India is a little older than the young Red’s core and he seems to have leadership ability that is needed on a successful team. Plus, India gives the impression he likes playing for the Reds and would be willing to play any position needed. On the other hand, if a good offer comes along for pitching, he could be traded.

  10. Amarillo

    A thought experiment. Brandon Williamson is currently our 5th starter, Phillips currently 6th. Would trade either of those players straight up for India? I don’t think I do, and I don’t think other teams would either. If we don’t get an offer that actually makes us better, then we cannot trade India, and I don’t think that kind of offer will come.

    • Greenfield Red

      The more I think about an India trade, the more I think about receiving an 8th or 9th inning reliever, with 2 or 3 years of control, and a promising 18 year old position player or pitcher. Then buy a starter and maybe an outfield bat.

      • Amarillo

        Agreed, but I don’t think an 8th inning reliever is as valuable as India.

        I guess we don’t know what the budget is going to be, but I’d much rather spend on free agents than make a trade. I’m begging Sonny to come back if I was in charge.

    • Jayce

      I would trade Brandon Williamson for Jonathan India if I needed a Jonathan India. It is a good comp and I think favors the team trading Williamson.

      Reds aren’t looking for a Brandon Williamson, more like Dylan Cease, will have to offer more and they have more. If I was White Sox and if I really wanted India and Reds demand Cease, I want two young starting pitchers who are immediate back rotation candidates like Williamson and Phillips, or one of those two plus a higher ceiling less developed prospect.
      I’d ask for Abbot instead of Williamson, wouldn’t get it, and might sit and think for a while. .. I wouldn’t mind Lodolo trading as part of deal for established starter.

      • Amarillo

        Interestingly, Williamson’s stats last year and Cease’s stats last year were quite comparable.
        Williamson had a slightly better ERA, a better WHIP, and walked a full batter per 9 less than Cease. Cease had a better FIP, a better K/9, and more IP. Maybe for a different pitcher, but for Cease in particular, I would not trade Williamson.

    • David

      Might be a tough sell. Milt Pappas passed away in 2016. I think that Jonathon India is worth more than that.

      • Melvin

        Yeah but Pappas wouldn’t cost much and be a drag on payroll. 😉

  11. Stock

    I don’t see the Reds trading India for a ML SP or RP unless it is a three team trade. For example India to Boston, Cease to Cincinnati and prospects from Boston and Cincinnati to the Sox.

    • Colorado Red

      White sox want a ton more.
      Per base ball trade values Cease is worth about 44, India about 8.
      Going to take a whole lot more then that.

  12. old-school

    KRall is quoted today by Wittenmyer on FA pitching. He was clear Reds arent looking for upside pitchers in a rebound year. He stated we have lots of young pitchers with upside already but who havent thrown lots of innings. He said Reds are looking for proven quality pitchers who can give them good innings over 162 games. He mentioned also a pitcher who could both start or pitch out of the bullpen to give depth and quality innings would be a plus. Wittenmyer mentioned Lorenzo, Manaea, Nick Martinez and Seth Lugo as pitchers that fill that category. Lugo is interesting, made 26 starts last year with ERA 3.57 and and threw 146 innings. In 2022 made 62 relief appearances. Career ERA is 3.5. K numbers are down but he gets outs and gives innings. Lugo and a high leverage lefty reliever( Chapman) would be a nice start.

    MLB traderumors has Lugo at 3/42 and others have him at 2/20.
    Chapman is in $10 million AAV range.

    • LDS

      I saw that. I didn’t take Krall’s comments as particularly encouraging for the off season. I am hoping they actually spend a little money and bring in an established starter, the relievers they desparately need, and some OFs. Trade all of the one sided batters for an everyday OF. Probably expecting too much for the penny pinching Reds.

  13. old-school

    Reds have stated they want a righty bat in the OF. This is where I would trade India. Nats have a good right fielder in Lane Thomas who has 2 years of control. India has 3 years. Nats either have to sign Thomas to an extension or trade him as he doesnt fit their time frame to win the NL East. If the Reds have to add in a prospect like Rece Hinds or Blake Dunn or a young pitcher in the low minors, so be it.

    • JayTheRed

      I like this trade idea. Get it done!

    • MBS

      I’d rather trade prospects from A ball instead of people who might be able to help us this year or next. We’re on the precipice of a impressive run I think. We have some of our highest rated prospects down at the lower levels, so there are definitely guys there that rebuilding teams will want.

    • Stock

      Lane Thomas would not be a good add. I agree he had a great first half. But the league adjusted and he failed to adjust back.

      2nd Half: 5.0 BB%, 26.1% K%, .705 OPS.

      Thomas is nothing more than a weak side platoon with Fraley. I pass

  14. Jon

    Nola back to the Phillies. One of the biggest names off the board first. The Reds need to hurry up and get a deal done with Gray before the Cardinals or Braves swoop in.

    • David

      Yes. The Cubs and the Cardinals have money and they are going shopping.

      The Cubs feel they are pretty close to being able to win the division.

      The Cardinals are embarrassed and angry about their finish this season (2023), and are going to do something about it for 2024.

  15. JayTheRed

    Nola off the board. Stayed with Phillies. 7 years 172 million. Probably a pretty decent price for him.

    I know this has nothing to do with this post, but someone mentioned getting Nola above so I thought I would throw this out there.

  16. doofus

    I have a feeling that Krall does virtually nothing this offseason to help the roster. He will probably, do the usual dumpster dive for a cheap FA, maybe two.

    He will cite the impending maturation of the young guys, yada, yada; and, the high asking prices for pitching.

    • JayTheRed

      I am worried about this too. If all we get this off season is one middle reliever and one back end starting pitcher, that will be a major failure on the Reds part. Maybe we get lucky, and players are healthier this season, but I sure wouldn’t want to start the season with hope as a prayer.

      Praying the payroll will be at least 90 million. but this ownership I have major doubts it will even get that high.

    • LDS

      I suspect you’re right. Another speech about the prices just being too high. His comments to Wittenmyer about swing arms suggests that he’s not looking for even mid-rotation guys and certainly none of the better starters or relievers. Of course, he could be gaming the market. However, past experience implies otherwise.

    • Jason Franklin

      I hope you guys understand that it is not up to Krall to spend the money, but the family who owns the Kroger’s. You think they would have a ton after not paying their employees decently or giving them reasonable benefits.

      • LDS

        We do. But, it’s a package deal. Castellini, Krall, and Bell are all part of the old boys’ club. There first priority doesn’t seem to be winning,

      • Melvin

        Let’s face it. All that Krall has to do to keep his job is be relatively competitive without spend much money. If he does that he’ll have a job for life as long as Big Bob is around. That’s what got him his extension.

      • Jason Franklin

        LDS: I agree and hope that somehow that old boy mentality is gone soon, but unsless the Krogers sell the team to someone else, it isn’t happening. Just think about how bright the teams future would be if they had a decent owner which allowed team investment? Krall I think is okay. Bell is something else.

      • RedsMonk65

        A non-Cincinnatian asks: Do the Castellini’s own Kroger’s?

      • Amarillo


        No, Castellini owns a fruit and vegetable wholesaler that is a Kroger supplier. He has zero stake in Kroger.

      • Melvin

        We still have a wonderful Kroger patch on our uniforms though. 😀

  17. Stock

    Woodruff will not be ready to pitch in April and probably not even by the all-star break. But there is a chance he could be back in August and September and ready for the playoffs. With this in mind this is what I would love for the Reds to do this winter.

    1. Sign FA Yoshinobu Yamamoto to an 8 year $200 million contract.
    2. Sign FA Brandon Woodruff to a 3 year $50 million contract with a club option $30 million in 2027.
    3. Sign FA Robert Stephenson to a 4 year $40 million contract.
    4. Sign FA Ardolis Chapman to a 2 year $30 million contract.

    This keeps the Reds payroll at about $100 million.

    • doofus

      Bob castellini does not have enough ink in his pen for all that signing.

    • Colorado Red

      Yamamoto, will probably go higher then that, plus posting fee.
      You also, still have the Diamond sports group issue (I would not nego on it),
      I think the Reds could sell enough MLB.tv packages to make up the money.

  18. Stock

    Here are some stats on the 5 best RP who are FA
    Player K/9 BB/9 K% BB% K% – BB% GB%
    Hicks 11.1 4.39 28.4% 11.2% 17.2% 58.3%
    Kimbrell 12.26 3.65 33.8% 10.1% 23.7% 33.6%
    Hader 13.58 4.79 36.8% 13.0% 23.8% 35.5%
    Chapman 15.89 5.55 41.4% 14.5% 26.9% 47.4%
    Stephenson 13.24 2.75 38.3% 8.0% 30.3% 34.6%

  19. Stock

    Here are some more:

    Player 1st Pitch K SWG Looking Total LA Barrell% Hard Hit% xERA
    Hicks 59.3% 10.6% 19.8% 30.4% -0.1 5.4% 35.7% 3.30
    Kimbrell 62.6% 13.7% 17.2% 30.9% 18.3 9.9% 46.7% 3.28
    Hader 57.6% 15.6% 13.3% 28.9% 20.5 4.4% 28.3% 2.36
    Chapman 56.2% 17.3% 18.7% 36.0% 10.4 9.2% 33.0% 2.84
    Stephenson 67.7% 24.5% 15.7% 40.2% 19.4 12.0% 32.4% 2.73

  20. Stock

    I guess I am on a different page than most on here.

    First, I think the Reds will be competitive even if they make zero significant moves.

    Second, I think they plan to do something significant. If not they would have kept Law. There are 5 good FA RP available (Hader, Hicks, Chapman, Stephenson and Kimbrel) and I hope the Reds get at least 2 of them. I would love for them to acquire Yamamoto.

    Third, I don’t want any prospect traded. Small market teams need to build from within. If the Reds are going to be competitive 5 years from now it is because they retained Collier, Cabrera, Rodriguez, Jorge, Balcazar and other young prospects.

    Fourth, if you do trade India, Trade him for prospects. On a different post someone suggested Kyle Teel. I like that idea. If it costs additional prospects or even an additional RP then this is a good long term trade. I would think with Teel and Matheu both in the system the Reds could look into trading Stephenson next winter.

    Fifth, people seem ready to bash Reds management. It is not even December yet. Most teams have done nothing. The Rockies did something but went backward by trading for Quantrill.

    I do think the Reds will acquire several FA. I do think the Reds are looking to trade India for the right package. But they are right to wait for the correct package and if that does not present itself then they are good to keep him.


    • Greenfield Red

      Agree on all points, Stock. They have to make significant moves, and I believe they will. This is a golden opportunity because of the moves NK has made and the moves he has not made in the last two years. The World Series is out there, and the Reds can win it in the next few years.

    • Jason Franklin

      I agree they will be competive too. I just know that they really need to sign some pitchers would can go innings. We saw what happened this year. That can’t happen again. I think the fan base would be amped if we just signed Gray and maybe Miley again.

      • Colorado Red

        NO Miley.
        He is do for a bad year (good, bad, good, bad), and is getting old.
        Gray, should not be signed for more then 3 years at most. Also getting old.
        If you make that mistake it will hamstring the Reds.

    • BK

      Stock, I agree on almost all points. The Reds are already competitive, and the offseason is just starting.

      WRT prospects, I think the Reds should avoid trading those close to ML ready and wait before making any trades of players who have only a cup of coffee above Low A. The risk for players below High A is very high and will be baked into any trades. Non-collegiate players at High A have completed at least one full season of pro ball, and once they succeed in their second full season, their value tends to soar. The Reds have several prospects that will have hit that point by the trade deadline. I agree that the Reds must keep a strong pipeline in the minors.

      The Reds should only trade India if it strengthens the big league team. When Arroyo is ready, they could consider moving India for prospects.

      I would add a few more names to your reliever list: Cincinnati native Suter (very undervalued IMHO) and Matsui. I could also see the Reds targeting a swingman. I’m not comfortable committing long-term to Stephenson as his track record for success is very short. I like Hicks, Matsui, and Suter of the available relievers.

      As usual, a very thoughtful post Stock! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    • doofus

      It is because we have seen this stale offseason movie too many times from the Bob Castellini run operation.

    • MBS

      @stock, first let me say they didn’t open up 3 40man roster spot for no reason. I agree with, they plan to improve the roster. Will it live up to my expectations? Yet to be seen, they have the room to do some big things.

      The only argument I have with you is you wanting to keep all the A ball or younger players. We didn’t really build from within, we tanked and traded for some very good prospects. Karl seems to be good at making smart trades, I’ll trust him in trades until he gives me a reason not to.

    • Optimist

      Some interesting points here, none to disagree with. Per your second item, I’d add it may be interesting if they really focus on this, instead of the rotation – if they feel they can get better value from a high price FA reliever (at less cost than a FA starter) and identify another 2 or 3 set-up relievers to go after in trades. As much as some of us wanted to keep Boyle, he was not a top-10 prospect. If they can move some #15-#25 prospects for end of the pen arms, that could be very valuable.

      As close as they got last year, your first point is worth remembering – the existing starting staff is unlikely to be worse, even without an addition.

  21. doofus

    I thought they would have selected Teel. Lowder’s selection may indicate they may not think Petty, Richardson are not on solid ground?

    • David

      I think a team has to select the best player available at the time they draft, whether a position player or a pitcher.
      Pitching is a big black box. Who knows how long a pitcher has in his career? Will they even make it to the Majors (after being drafted). There is a lot of bad luck around drafting pitchers, but you have to keep feeding players into your system and hope something good comes out.
      I think Petty will be good, but Lyon Richardson….meh. Maybe. And they are both still big “maybes”.

  22. Jon

    Not liking the fact that the only FA or trade candidate the Reds have been linked to thus far is Candelario. Meanwhile just today, I’ve seen Gray linked to the Braves and Cease to the Dodgers. The Reds have always been secretive regarding acquisitions, but it’s especially worrisome considering that Krall has never acquired a major free agent or player through trade.

      • Jon

        Moll is not a major FA or trade acquisition.

    • PTBNL

      The Reds are not going to blast out which specific player(s) they are targeting in FA. That would be extremely unwise business practices. Our opponents could easily help jack up the prices and thus, make the player more unaffordable. We have NO idea what players they are talking to. We only hear rumors and those are not always accurate. Don’t go by scuttlebutt or assume (you know what that makes us). Let’s start seeing how the market shakes out before we judge whether the Reds are players in the FA market. I’m thinking they are targeting a few select players and sending out feelers right now and we won’t hear too much just yet.

      Tap the brakes, it will be all right.

    • David

      I think Sonny Gray could help the rotation a lot (for the Reds), but I also think it is unlikely that they re-aquire him. I think he was traded because of
      1) trying to get young talent in return, to rebuild
      2) they thought he was too old (and that was two seasons ago, and Gray is not getting younger)
      Castellini and the rest of the Reds TOP MEN will likley NOT be willing to spring payroll to sign an mult-year, expensive FA pitcher. And…it is a gamble. There are no sure things in baseball, especially with pitching.
      This is the ownership we have (as fans) of the Reds, not the ownership we would like.
      I predict that they will likely acquire no one of substantial quality, and for the next 3-5 years, the Reds will flirt with being competitive, and may actually make the play-offs for several of those years. Much excitement!!! (Even the very talented Astros went out and got some very good FA starting pitchers). And then, the present crop of newly arrived prospects will reach the end of their arb years and depart.

  23. Colorado Red

    White sox want a ton more.
    Per base ball trade values Cease is worth about 44, India about 8.
    Going to take a whole lot more then that.

  24. Mike Mooney

    I should be accustomed to the fact that Krall just talks and not put much stock in what he says. But this quote: “But just motivated to move players off your roster just because ‘that guy might not fit (a specific spot).’ That doesn’t make any sense.”

    In reality, doesn’t that make perfect sense? If there’s no spot for him to play, then a trade should be an option (probably the best option).