The Cincinnati Reds had until Monday to decide on whether or not they would pick up or decline the option on Joey Votto for the 2024 season. They dropped the news at 11:45am on Saturday that they would not be picking up his option for $20,000,000 and would instead be paying him a $7,000,000 buyout. That makes Votto a free agent for the first time in his career.

The Reds released this statement, from President of Baseball Operations Nick Krall, on the move:

“For 17 seasons, Joey has been the heart of Reds baseball as a Most Valuable Player, All-Star and respected clubhouse leader. His contributions to our team and his extraordinary generosity toward those in need, throughout our region and beyond, cannot be measured.”

“At this point of the off-season, based on our current roster and projected plans for 2024, as an organization we cannot commit to the playing time Joey deserves. He forever will be part of the Reds’ family, and at the appropriate time we will thank and honor him as one of the greatest baseball players of this or any generation.”

Votto was drafted out of high school by the Cincinnati Reds in the 2nd round of the 2002 draft. He was selected as a catcher, but that didn’t last very long before he was moved to first base where he has spent almost all of his career since. There was a short period of time where he did play in left field on a limited basis before he went back to first base full time.

Making his debut in September of 2007, Joey Votto played 17 years with the big league club. He won the National League’s Most Valuable Player award in 2010. He was a 6-time All-Star. Votto hit .294/.409/.511 in 2056 games with Cincinnati. That included 459 doubles, 22 triples, and 356 home runs. During his tenure he led the league in doubles once, walks five times, on-base percentage seven times, slugging percentage once, OPS twice, and intentional walks three times.

Based on the words from Nick Krall, it does not seem like the club has interest in bringing Joey Votto back to the team. Perhaps it’s due to Votto looking for an opportunity to play full time and as noted, the Reds just don’t believe they can offer him that given their roster. Perhaps things change down the line if that opportunity can’t be provided by another team and both sides can see a scenario where more of a bench/platoon/whatever role could make sense. As things stand now, though, that feels unlikely.

179 Responses

  1. Mark Moore

    Expected outcome and the right thing to do. Cannot guarantee a full-time role even if he were to come into ST2024 in top-shape (for a guy now in his 40’s). Maybe a limited role for one more trip around the League, but even at that, I don’t want to sacrifice a roster spot or give HDTBell too many “toys” to play with in non-productive ways.

    Let’s celebrate a great career and look forward.

    • Votto4life

      Mark do you seriously believe Joey wasn’t better than the 26th player? If he is better than the 26th player, the Reds just became a weaker team today.

      If you have to make your roster David Bell proof, then perhaps you should fire David Bell.

      • LDS

        At season’s end, probably not. The question is what the Reds do this off-season to demonstrate that they have better options than Votto. Personally, I’ve been pulling for him to retire for the last couple of years. I hope he does. As for Bell proofing the roster? Absolutely, fire the man. It’s interesting the number of teams shuffling field management and yet, not one has asked the Reds for permission to interview Bell.

      • BK

        @LDS, Bell is under contract for three seasons. He was just extended. No team is going to waste their time asking. Sound logic doesn’t require strawman arguments.

      • Mark Moore


        Is he better than the 13th position player? Possibly, but he’s limited to DH and 1B (where his defense isn’t going to win any awards). Frankly, we don’t know who the last 3 or so guys will be yet. But Joey made it very clear he wants to play more often than not by a wide margin. I just don’t see that happening on a young club that wants to contend.

        As for having to HDTBell-proof the roster … he’s a nepotistic fixture you have to work around. Sorry if that doesn’t sit well with you, but he’s not going anywhere anytime soon. And he does have a strong tendency to “tinker” and “play with various toys” as we’ve seen. I think a big part of Krall’s job is limiting those options.

      • MK

        He absolutely was not better than number 26. Defense, was horrific,his base running could be described as clogging,and his hitting was all or nothing power. And the all was 20% of the time. Kevin Newman was more valuable. Could defend, run, and hit better.And there were others.

      • JB

        Is he better than the 26 th player? Can he pitch out of the bullpen? Can he be the backup catcher? Can he play outfield ? Because that is the 26th player. He had a negative WAR. Even Fairchild had a positive WAR. You want to keep a guy to sit the bench and be the 3rd best option at first at best or DH when there are better options even for that? It’s over. Except Reality.

      • Greenfield Red

        V4L… Do you believe he would have expected anything less than playing 1st and batting 3rd? I don’t. Not for a minute.

        I think he had no interest in being 26th man. Even for 20 mil. My opinion based upon 17 years of observation.

      • Votto4life


        “As for having to HDTBell-proof the roster … he’s a nepotistic fixture you have to work around. Sorry if that doesn’t sit well with you”

        It doesn’t matter if it sits well with me or not. It’s dysfunctional and a poor way to run an organization. I’m sorry if you can’t see that.

      • LDS

        Actually @BK, it happens all the time. It’s not a strawman. It’s reality. No other team would be interested. He’s accomplished nothing and routinely underperforms expectations, particularly after the All-Star break. It’s a trend.

      • Melvin

        “particularly after the All-Star break”

        I wouldn’t say he’s known for getting off to particularly fast starts either.

      • Colorado Red

        No, he was NOT better then the 26th player.
        How many SF did he have. How much did he move the running to 3rd from 2nd with no one out?
        Time to retire.

      • BK

        @LDS, unless you have evidence that teams would not be interested in David Bell, you have made a strawman argument. Conjecture is not evidence.

      • Seth

        Bell is not a coach that’s going to lead a team to the playoffs he’s more of a coach that’ll help you get a good draft pick ?

    • Tampa Red

      It’s incredible y’all are still talking about “Bell-proofing” the roster. It’s like we watched two different teams last season.

      • VaRedsFan

        Perhaps you missed these Tampa:
        Removed Moose from the roster, because Bell kept playing him.
        Removed Strickland from the roster, because Bell kept playing him.
        Removed Meyers from the roster, because Bell kept playing him.
        Removed Renfroe from the roster, because Bell kept playing him.
        Bader would have kept playing had he not gotten hurt.

        That’s what we mean, so you don’t have to ask anymore.

      • Tampa Red

        VaRedsFan: now do all the rookies that Bell played as soon as they hit the big league roster.

        And I wasn’t really asking anything. I was simply making an observation of the the boards impressive ability to cling to a narrative.

      • greenmtred

        Supposition. It’s just as likely that players like Moose got playing time because the FO wanted them to.

  2. Votto4life

    I’m sure there will be a lot of celebration here. You guys will need a new whipping boy now. It’s a shame Joey deserves better. Good luck with the Reds investing the savings back into the team. It’s not going to happen.

    • Greenfield Red

      They have to invest it back into the team. Otherwise they will lose the few of us who still believe.

      • Votto4life

        I believe that is the case with you Greenfield. I don’t believe it’s true with some of your bretheren, who seems to rejoice at every dollar Bob Castellini is able to put back in his fat wallet. It’s quite frankly, odd.

      • greenmtred

        Have you guys collectively forgotten the season that just ended? Yes, they came up short: at the end they were a tired young team with a decimated pitching staff. But they had a winning record after losing 100 games the previous season and they accomplished this with a very young team, frequently starting 5 or more rookies. Plenty of reason to be pleased and optimistic and excited for the upcoming season.

      • Votto4life

        The Reds also were 10 games under .500 during the final two months of the season, with a team ERA of nearly 6.00.

        During the second half of the season, the Reds were more like the team that lost 100 games the year before, than the team that was 10 games over .500 in May and June.

        Despite how poorly they played in the second half, they still had the opportunity to make the post season, if the front office had been even slightly interested. They were not.

        So, sure celebrate the way the team played in May and June. But, also take a long look at the way the played the second half.

      • Greenfield Red

        I’ll take that as a compliment V4L.

      • greenmtred

        You certainly don’t have to be happy if you prefer not to be. How many pitchers–good pitchers–would the Reds have needed to acquire at the trade deadline to make a serious run at the playoffs? At what cost? And who were these guys?

    • Circleville Brian

      I’m celebrating. Why? It was the right decision. Winning teams can’t be too sentimental. He had an awesome contact as he was lucky enough that the Reds extended him after an mvp season while he was already under control for another 3 years. That was very stupid timing and bad business by ownership. The guy was a stud for awhile. He’s been mediocre for like the last 4 years.
      He only fits here now as a part time guy and he doesn’t want to accept that.
      My biggest fear with the situation is that they would cave and bring him back as a full time player, that would’ve been the wrong decision. It is what it is.

    • Jim

      It is time to stop hearing back and forth about Votto, Finally! It is time to give him his due and praise for his early good years for the Reds. Great Hitter!! Good memories!!
      The Reds were not fun backing the last 5 or so years and now it looks like we have a team that is exciting and fun to watch. Let’s start talking about our New team.

  3. Biggy

    Love you Joey. Wish you the bestest and a ring. I for one will truly miss you.

  4. Melvin

    Votto’s #19 has been a part of most all of my passwords for years….I do say small part of. It’s just a small way to honor my favorite Reds player since 1990. I liked him and knew he was going to be good from the first home run he hit in 2007. Doesn’t seem that long ago. Consummate professional = Joey Votto.

  5. Mike McSorley

    So what do I do with my 2024 Joey Votto Farewell Tour tickets?

  6. Optimist

    It’s a business, and this is a very business-like decision and business-like statement.

    Difficult to read anything between the lines, but the line about playing time seems curious.

    It doesn’t seem they’ve simply said good bye forever, but it’s clear they may do so.

    I expect they make him a nominal offer (3-5M), knowing he’d be a DH/1B for 150-250 ABs, but if someone else offers more of both (say 6-8M and season starting at 1B) he’d take that.

    Seems fair to both sides.

    • Votto4life

      Yeah, it had everything to do with playing time and nothing to do with $13,000,000. What do you expect them to say “We are cheap”?

      • Optimist

        This is the least questionable payroll decision the Reds have made in years. It even may become a very easy roster decision.

      • Seth

        Yeah we are very cheap if we cared anything about winning baseball games we would have gotten more than a bullpen pitcher and that could have been the reds in the world series not the Diamondbacks

    • Nick in NKY

      Personally I like the line about playing time. JV has certainly earned the right to state his terms. His recent performance may not earn the playing time, but his career has earned him the right to state his intent for himself (if that makes sense?).
      If this is the shorthand way of saying they can’t agree on a role, which I find to be believable and sincere, then this is the way to say it.

  7. Little Earl

    Absolutely the right decision. Votto has been paid well and doesn’t deserve another high paying year at low production. If Votto’s ego won’t allow him to accept a part time role, then good luck. The odds are very much against him.

  8. Klugo

    One of my all-time favorite Reds.
    Good on the FO for going in this direction, though.

    • Mark Moore

      Agreed. Tough call, but needed to happen given the parameters on the table that we know about.

  9. docproc

    This was the right call. Looking forward to seeing CES at first base all season.
    Thanks for a great career, Joey. Hope to see you back as a coach, hitting instructor, or maybe even announcer.

  10. MK

    Be clear this was as much about money as playing time.

    • Votto4life

      When the Reds continue to give Nick Senzel 300 at bats a year, it makes playing time comments laughable.

      • jay johnson

        if joey could play 3rd or the outfield he still wouldnt be as valuable as senzel.maybe not less valuable but certainly not more valuable and more than likely senzel will also be gone and for far less $.

      • Colorado Red

        Would not be surprised if they non-tendered Nick.

  11. Earmbrister

    The declining of the club’s option was widely expected, though I was sad to hear it. Joey has always been just a joy to watch, and in these latter years also a joy to listen to. The intelligence matched with the quirkiness is such a treasure. Post the 1970’s, he was the best player the Reds have had the good fortune to have represent them. He will be missed greatly if this is indeed the end.

    I was holding out hope that JV and the Reds would find a path to a 2024 contract. The portion of the press release below gave me pause:

    “ based on our current roster and projected plans for 2024, as an organization we cannot commit to the playing time Joey deserves”.

    For a front office/ownership group that is certainly “challenged” in its public comments from time to time I thought that the statement was classy and quite professional. However the nod to “playing time” seemed to refer to dialogue they’ve had with JV. It’s no surprising that Joey wants a starting role with the Reds, and also not surprising that the Reds think that turning the page for CES et al is in the best interests of the club. Hopefully somehow they’ll find a mutually beneficial solution, cause I’m not ready to stop rooting for Joey Votto as a Red. I will always root for Joey Votto nonetheless.

    Thank you JV for all of the great memories and for what a great ambassador you have been for the city of Cincinnati.

    • Mark Moore

      Well stated. Debbie agrees with our perspective. We’ll see how this all plays out.

    • greenmtred

      I do wonder if that part of the statement was a negotiation ploy> He won’t likely be offered a starting job by a team with real playoff hopes. Maybe he’d take any starting job he offered in order to have the opportunity to prove a point, but maybe he’ll test the waters and find that he prefers the role he could have with the Reds. Wishful thinking?

    • Redlegs1869

      I thought “the playing time he deserves” was not the best word choice. Probably should have stated “playing time he expects.” If Karl believes he “deserves” it, then why not bring him back? Obviously, the organization doesn’t think he deserves it.

  12. JB

    23. Jorge Soler (32, OF, Marlins): Soler can remain with the Marlins for $13 million, but he figures to opt out after hitting .250/.341/.512 with 36 homers last season. He was the first Marlins player to hit 30 homers or slug .500 since Giancarlo Stanton and Marcell Ozuna did both in 2017. At this point, he’s best utilized as a DH; he can still play the outfield on occasion, but it’s not going to good for anyone if he does so frequently. Prediction: Two years, $30 million.

    I would rather give this guy $30 million for 2 years and see some production at DH than give Votto 20 million for one year and watch him get off to his notorious slow starts and then watch it continue through the summer and Joey stating “I’m close”. He is a great Red and will always be a favorite but like Mays and Aaron it was difficult to watch them play at the end.

    • Votto4life

      “I would rather give this guy $30 million for 2 years and see some production at DH”

      Unfortunately, that’s not the choice. The choice is pay Joey Votto $20,000,00 or buy him out for $7,000,000 and save Bob and company $13,000,000.

  13. Mario

    I had hoped that Votto would have a good 2nd half and make this decision difficult. But the decision wasn’t difficult at all. I wish him well. I don’t think he’s completely washed but they are making the right decision in not promising him regular playing time. I see Turner is a free agent again so I could picture Votto in a Red Sox uniform. I hope it’s not Yankees, Cubs, or Cardinals, and would prefer not to see him with the Guardians, Giants, or Orioles.

  14. Rick

    There comes a time. There always comes a time.

  15. J

    I’ve never really believed Krall is ever motivated by trying to “Bell-proof” the team, but this does sort of feel like that. It’s sort of like “we can’t bring him back because he’s going to want to play a lot, and if he wants to play a lot Bell is going to let him play a lot, so our hands are tied.”

    • docproc

      I absolutely believe Krall is trying to Bell-proof the team. He did it with cutting Moose, Myers, and Renfroe last year, too. Forced Bell to play the youngsters, who for the most part produced quite well.

      • J

        That’s one way of looking at it. Another way is that he was getting rid of guys who weren’t playing as well as Krall had expected when he signed them.

      • greenmtred

        And I think J’s thoughts on the subject are more likely correct.

      • VaRedsFan

        @J – But yet, Bell was playing Renfroe and company (and batting 3rd) up until he was released the next day.

        Bell proofing means that Bell plays guys not worthy of playing time despite how poorly they are playing.

      • J

        VRF, Bell definitely plays the wrong guys and uses the wrong batting orders. But Krall must be aware of this, and he must be aware of what’s going to happen when he adds a veteran to the roster (or keeps a veteran on the roster), so at some level he must be okay with what Bell is doing. When we say a parent is “child-proofing” their house, we don’t usually mean they’re taking away all the knives and cleaning products and medicines they previously gave to the child to play with. Votto is a little different because Krall inherited that contract.

  16. DW

    My prediction…Votto will be in a Blue Jays uniform next season.

    • Votto4life

      I am hoping he signs with the St. Louis Cardinals and become part of their next world championship team.

      I also hope he doesn’t participate in any planned celebrations that allows the Castellinis to benefit from his name.

      • Colorado Red

        Hope they never get one (the Cards). And I hope the Reds do. It is time for Joey to call it quits.
        He is no longer good enough. He is all about Votto the last two years. Time to say goodby

      • Melvin

        “I also hope he doesn’t participate in any planned celebrations that allows the Castellinis to benefit from his name.”

        Are you insinuating that Big Bob & Son would use any Votto celebrations to make MONEY as they’re main purpose? Surely you jest. 😉

    • TR

      That makes sense since Votto was born and grew up in Toronto.

    • David

      My prediction is he (Joey Votto) will retire in a few months. I don’t think many teams will be that interested. I am sure his agent will approach the Blue Jays, but……

      The Toronto Blue Jays are expecting to be a contending team next year. Do they have a roster spot open just for sentimental sake for a 40 year old player, with dubious health (in his left shoulder)?
      I think the Reds’ decision is much less about the money and much more about a roster spot.

      • VaRedsFan

        How about performance?
        1 good year since 2018.
        It was fine when the team wasn’t good, but now that they are ready, poor performance is not acceptable.

  17. Tar Heel Red

    Votto4life…this had to happen. On a young team making progress, a 40-year-old who can no longer hit and hasn’t been an adequate defender for years (and someone looking to start) would be a regression. Father Time remains undefeated, and any other decision would have been irresponsible.

  18. larry baker

    Thank Votto for his years of service. Sadly, the Reds were never a winning team, no championships. Wish Votto the best. Maybe he can find a new team that can use his services. Baseball has always been a business. Players come and go. Votto make his money doing his long career.

  19. RedBB

    Reading between the lines I think Reds won’t offer a contract to Votto. Kinda sad…but it is what it is. Maybe a late season signing during the playoff push?

  20. redfanorbust

    Everyone the Reds add or subtract should all about moving the proverbial needle forward towards towards making the playoffs and that includes JV. If Joey wants to play full time, good for him and I hope some team can use his skills as they currently stand. Time will of course tell if there is a team out there to offer him that but clearly it’s not the Reds. If he does agree to a platoon roll at 3-5M or whatever it should be because that money could not be better spent on a more productive player and not out of loyalty. This upcoming year should be all about the Reds being markedly better than last and making the playoffs. Spending big on FA 60-100M on some serious talent, making savvy trades and having (much) better luck with injuries are going to be what gets the Reds moving towards what we all have for a long long time waited for, the promised land.

  21. Tom Reeves

    Now we get to find out if Joey is willing to come back at a lower price to help the Reds win a championship or if he simply wants a starting role. I hope he chooses to come back in a backup role but that’s entirely up to him. The Reds did, sadly, the right thing today for the team.

    Now it’s time to invest in 1-2 ACE SPs and 2-4 Closer RPs. Do that and this team will be tough to tangle with all next season.

    • Mark Moore

      Can’t disagree with that perspective, Tom. Biggest challenge will be the number of teams competing for similar players. But that’s always a big challenge, isn’t it?

    • Daytonnati

      I kinda get a “see ya later” vibe in Krall’s statemeny “… we cannot commit to the playing time Joey deserves” is an interesting phrase? He could have said “expects” or “desires”, but he said “deserves”, as if he feels Joey still has some tread on the tires, so it might be best to look elsewhere? I dunno, maybe it’s just me? He has certainly established the Reds negotiating position if Joey does want to come back.

      • greenmtred

        I parsed that part of the statement, too: it might reflect Krall being courteous and diplomatic, and it might also be his attempt to avoid burning bridges.

  22. MK

    Curt Casali option not picked up either.

    • Mark Moore

      Yep. Minor sub-note to the headline. Also very much expected.

    • TR

      Casali will eventually be a manager, perhaps with the Reds.

  23. Mark Moore

    As all the RLN regulars would expect, this has sparked a rather spirited discussion that isn’t limited to the option decision. It’s been a long time since we’ve had a “legend” such as Votto. And I realize there are still multiple challenges with the organization (especially the way Phil/Bob seem to operate). But I still consider myself a Reds fan and will until the day I give up baseball. You take it all in stride and look forward. Because, as a fan, there really isn’t much else you can do.

  24. AMDG

    Votto was limited to 1B and DH, which means he would have been required to beat out Steer & CES, which was not going to happen.

    + Both had a positive WAR this season while Votto was negative (again).

    + Both had an OPS+ above 110 while Votto was below 100 (again).

    Anyway, if the Reds are serious about the playoffs this season, they needed to upgrade over a player with a career 0.563 OPS in the postseason.

  25. Indy Red Man

    I’m sick and tired of “I’ll step away when I can’t play the game at the level I’m accustomed to”. It becomes “I have some good baseball left in me. If it wasn’t for XYZ injury, but I’ll be back strong” No, you’re not getting younger and nagging injuries don’t go away miraculously. Look in the mirror or the back of your baseball card and accept reality. And I was dumb enough to believe he’d walk away.

    Where’s the GoFundme for a GaBp restraining order? I’ll happily chip in

    • Indy Red Man

      Overrated. Dorn from Major League “ole” defense at 1b and worst runner in MLB for a decade. All the cheapie hr Gabp to left center wouldn’t even make the track in the NL west. Switch careers and location with Adrian Gonzalez and nobody would’ve heard of him

      • MK

        Indy, I agree with you 100%. But I hope you got it all out. Don’t want you to have a stroke. Selfishly I enjoy your comments, so let it go.

      • Mario

        hey don’t blaspheme Adrian Gonzalez like that. But seriously think Votto had a much better career overall. Adrian got what a lot of old guys get. I didn’t think he was done but a slow start with the Mets a few years back and was DFA’d to give Mets legend Dom Smith more AB’s.

    • Tom Mitsoff

      I’m on the same page as you. Does he deserve undying adulation? Absolutely. Is he one of the greatest players in team history. Absolutely. Does he deserve to have playing time promised to him based on the past two years? Absolutely not. We don’t know what conversations the sides have had. If I was Krall, I would have offered an additional $3 million (over the $7 million buyout) for him to come back as a reserve and sometimes DH. I hope that this decision by Krall and the front office is a sign that it’s all about winning this year. We will see.

      • Optimist

        Agree to this, and wonder if the phrasing was such that a 3-5M offer may be coming, but much later than expected. Namely, the 13th offensive spot on the roster will come down to who is acquired and who is traded. I’d lean toward making the offer now, but the Reds may tender everyone in anticipation of setting up trades, and feel they have 4 or 5 others competing for the spot, in which case they need to wait.

        It’s a bit ironic, but if they move everyone older than 27, that would likely open the spot – getting younger by getting one older player to return.

      • Melvin

        “I hope that this decision by Krall and the front office is a sign that it’s all about winning this year. ”

        If so it will be the first time in recent memory. They sure had a chance this year and blew it. The team they could have beat out (who lost their final three games) for the last playoff spot in the last weekend of the season went to the World Series. Just getting in the playoffs DOES MATTER.

      • greenmtred

        They had a chance to what, Melvin? Squeek into the playoffs and get bounced ignominiously in the first round? At the cost of a number of their good young players? Given the condition of the rotation, one of the mid-level pitchers available would have done no more than that, if that. What would two or three good starters and a good relief pitcher have cost–all of these unnamed guys better than those who were traded? Krall is showing that he cares about winning by assembling an impressive number of good young players and refusing to part with them for a futile all-or-nothing shot this past season. Might work, might not, but the same can be said for big trades and FA signings.

      • Melvin

        The team that “squeeked” into the playoffs represented the National League in the World Series.

      • greenmtred

        They did, but their starting rotation hadn’t fallen apart, and that is the crux of my point.

      • Melvin

        greenmtred – So it wasn’t worth trying eh? 🙂

      • greenmtred

        The cost is the point: if trying means trading top young players and/or prospects for the marginal pitchers available and still having little hope of winning the WS then or in the next few years, then I consider the cost to be too high. The Snakes exceeded expectations, but they still lost the series 4-1.

      • Melvin

        At this point I’ll take MAKING IT to the World Series. You never know what will happen in the playoffs. That’s the reason you can’t let those opportunities go by. The best planning, best team in the world doesn’t guarantee making it again or even coming close.

      • greenmtred

        I take your point, Melvin. But I don’t believe that the Reds as they were at the end of the season would have made it to the WS with the additions of, say, Giolito, Lorenzon and Chapman.

      • Melvin

        Problem with that is we just don’t know. Diamondbacks probably didn’t think they would have made it to the World Series. Not many if any thought they would have. We don’t make it to the playoffs often at least not in the last 30 years. We can’t afford to waste any opportunities. The Diamondbacks making it to the World Series reaffirmed it more than ever for me.

    • Mark Moore

      The “promise” does still ring in my ears. It’s a moot point now. But it just didn’t jive with what we saw and what we heard at the end.

  26. DaveCT

    For Joey …

    Do not go gentle into that good night,
    Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
    Because their words had forked no lightning they
    Do not go gentle into that good night.

    Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
    Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
    And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
    Do not go gentle into that good night.

    Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
    Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    And you, my father, there on the sad height,
    Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

  27. rgslone

    I would like to see Votto brought back as a hitting coach/bench player. Now, of course, that’s fan talk because: (1) I don’t know how good Votto would be as a hitting coach; (2) starting out as a coach in the majors again seems more like fan thinking than what’s probably a good idea; and (3) Votto might have a tough time focusing sufficiently on his coaching duties while still playing – even in a completely non-starter (including DH), use sporadically in specific situations role. Still, another $3-4 million for an assistant hitting coach/bench player/marketing tool might not be a totally bad idea for the Reds.

  28. Hunt4RedsOct

    Thank you Joey Votto. I can’t say much more about the decision then what has already been stated through all these comments. Instead let me share a couple Joey Votto stories.
    I went to the Reds fantasy camp back in Sarasota and Joey Votto was hitting in a batting cage next to me. Sounded like he was stacking Lumber unfortunately it sounded like I was stacking toothpicks. My coach was Billy Hatcher and he said we should have given up the cage that for that week we were professional players. But seriously we were going to say no to Joey.
    A couple Seasons later out in Arizona, my then 9-year-old son held up a picture of himself with Joey from Red’s Fest. Joey said hold on a minute and then came over and signed it for him. He then stood there and talked to my son for over 15 minutes while he autographed for other fans. My son came away from it so excited but then it hit him, he had told Joey that his favorite position was shortstop not 1st base.
    Thanks again Joey Votto!

    • Mark Moore

      “Stacking toothpicks” … what a great image!!! 😀

      • greenmtred

        A task more difficult than it appears, too.

    • Greenfield Red

      Interesting in that my son’s (at age 8) Votto experience was a very similar situation at Spring Training. But, his experience was the exact opposite. JV ignored… as in didn’t even look up at about 12 to 14 kids in a situation he could have at the very least tipped his cap to them. That takes all of 1.5 seconds. They were not asking for autographs or even saying anything to him. They watched him take ground balls on the little infield only diamond in Goodyear for about 45 minutes. My son was done with him. My wife had no use for him from that day forward. And I mean none. She is celebrating today.

      As a side note, at the same age, his Pete Rose experience couldn’t have been better. Yeah we paid $125 for him to sign a baseball (I was against it. My wife insisted we do it). Pete spent at least 20 minutes with my son and me. The beautiful thing was, Pete made the conversation all about my son… not about himself. He wanted to see how much my son knew about baseball, and he was amazed my son, at 8, knew who Ty Cobb was, and had seen 4192. He knew about the BRM. He knew about the Black Sox and the 1919 World Series the Reds won.

      In the end, Pete gave him a very nice personally autographed baseball noting my son as “a great fan”. It remains one of his prouder belongings.

  29. Harry Stoner

    “…..and at the appropriate time we will thank and honor him as one of the greatest baseball players of this or any generation.”

    To my ear, this is the real kiss=off line in the Bull’s statement.

    Without it, one might have possibly have projected the bit about “..playing time he deserves…” as negotiating through the press, but “…we will thank and honor him…” sounds pretty much like the sound of a door clicking shut.

    My only hope is that Krall had a real and forthright conversation with ahead of the news release.

    We can all recall recent ex-Reds (eg Drury, Castillo, Castellanos) saying something to the effect of “….they never really talked to me…”

    Whether that is true or not, who knows, but I would tend to take such statements at face value over RLN speculations.

    I certainly can’t speculate that about Krall, but he doesn’t walk on water in my estimation.

    Krall has been the one to acquire the Voslers, Pinders, Morans, Newmans, Renfroes, Baders, Phams, Myerss, etc. that folks now suggest he’s Bell-proofing the club by shedding.

    Krall strikes me as a bit of a cold-fish, unsentimentally willing to chop out dead wood contracts.

    I would have loved to see JV recover from his recent surgery and return to some higher level of productivity.

    I think it’s totally within him.

    There are folks here on RLN who expect immediate return to form following recovery from injury (eg Stephenson) which is pretty comical.

    But frankly, I’ve been enjoying watching CES and Marte hitting much more than JV.
    (And closing my eyes when EDLC bats….)

    If the Reds follow through and use this move to provide maximum playing time for the Young Turks, then I’ll look back at this as the right move.

    If Krall goes back to stocking up more Voslers and Pinders and Renfroes (and past practice suggests he might) then my opinion on this will certainly change.

    • Optimist

      Harry – where’s the “past practice suggests” he might stock up on marginal/AAAA players? Past is past – where’s the roster room to add those? The entire Joey issue is largely a roster spot issue, not a salary issue. Look at the field position players on the 40-man – which of those fits your definition? If anything, I expect them to move those to make room for Dunn/Hurtubise/Hinds/C, etc.. They’ve already moved Siani.

      Krall has spent 2-3 years loading the system from below – extremely doubtful he’s going to cap it with any more AAAA players.

      • Harry Stoner

        I guess this is why you’ve chosen “Optimist” as your handle.

        “Past is past” seems to be only a rhetorical device when handy to underline a specious argument.

        Otherwise “past is past” is used to try and advance an equally completely speculative position.

        I agree the roster spots play a role in the “Votto Issue” now, as much as
        “the past is past”, the “now is now”. What might make sense in the short term roster adjustments, might not make sense come ST.

        Taking a ringer on Votto or Hurtbuise?

        That’s not even funny and where the $$ obviously comes in.

        Krall has truly pulled together a better looking group of prospects than the Reds have seen in awhile.

        He still went with Newman, Vosler, Pinder, Myers (Yikes!), three catchers, and (post) deadline his big moves were Bader and Renfroe.

        The past isn’t that far past.

      • Optimist

        OK – You lost me Harry. The reference to the past is that the Reds have had plenty of holes going back 10 years. They filled a few with good FAs (Moose, Castellanos/Miley) but most with the sort you’ve listed. That’s past. They don’t have those holes now, at least on offense.

        As for salaries – what do you think Joey’s market value is? I’m in favor of retaining him at 3-5M, think he may command a bit more – 5-8M from some team, and think that doesn’t matter much at all, either to the Reds or Joey. Hence, I suspect it’s about the roster spot and the 13th man. I don’t think they’ll fill it with a AAAA player, and I don’t think they’ll fill it until late in the spring. Dunn and Hurtubise seem most likely for promotion, but I think it will likely be from a trade or FA.

        All that, there may still be a chance they make Joey an offer to return. It’s not a high percentage, but it’s not negligible.

        What is specious about any of that, and what do the Bader or Renfroe transactions have to do with any of this?

        Finally, the media reports on the conference call with Joey sound very interesting – almost like he and the Reds fully understand one another’s positions – almost like he had an advance copy of the press release to review.

        Who would you bump off the 40-man today to retain Joey? What do you think the Reds will do?

    • Mario

      excellent point “There are folks here on RLN who expect immediate return to form following recovery from injury (eg Stephenson) which is pretty comical.”

      A lot of RLN is down on TySteve after a mediocre year. If healthy, I think he returns to form.

      • VaRedsFan

        I think Ty hit well enough for a catcher, in what looked like a “floor” type of year offensively.

        What I find unacceptable was his defense. Particularly, pitch framing (60th out of 64 catchers). Injury has nothing to do with that.

      • Mario

        VaRedsfan – good point. I hate the term pitch framing but obviously some catchers are better than others at fooling the umpires.

    • Melvin

      “I would have loved to see JV recover from his recent surgery and return to some higher level of productivity.
      I think it’s totally within him.
      There are folks here on RLN who expect immediate return to form following recovery from injury”

      I would love to see him come back too with earned playing time. IF the front office is REALLY all in to win then they will need a good veteran for leadership. Every young team needs one. There’s no one better than Votto for them to look up to. They (the youngins) have pretty much all said so already. Unfortunately we always have the “David Bell Factor” to consider.

  30. Stoney

    Not a tough call at all. Easy decision. If Votto wants to play full time he can do so with the Royals or A’s. I too appreciate all the Votto has done but time to move on. I look forward to watching CES full time. Votto would not be a reserve player. Bell would see to that and would insert him at every opportunity. I wish Votto well next year but for another team.

  31. MK

    I’ve been thinking about legacy today. I’ve read terms like superstar, legend, greatest, hof’er. Has there ever been a Red that fell into those categories that never lead their team to the World Series. Roush (1919), Lombardi (39-40), Robinson(61), Bench-Rose-Perez (70,72,75,76), Larkin-Davis (90) Votto (none)

    • Kevin H

      Pretty sure 1 guy has never led his team to the world series. Very unfair comparison. Votto is a super star, a hall of fame and a great player.

    • Still a Red

      Mike Trout will probably never lead the Angels to a World Series. Also, you forgot Morgan in your list above…and Davis isn’t a HoFer (though if he stayed healthy could have been). If Perez (who I believe should be there) got in to HoF, Joey should too. Joey’s last couple years have lessened his career numbers, but he was the best Red in a generation.

      • Melvin

        I’m a Perez fan too but he didn’t exactly have a great last few years either. He also wasn’t injured like Votto has been. If I had to choose an All Time Reds Team Votto would make it over Perez at 1B who, as you said, is in the HOF.

    • Melvin

      “Bench-Rose-Perez (70,72,75,76), Larkin-Davis (90) Votto (none)”

      Don’t know about the other guys but do you think the guys mentioned above could have won a World Series with the same teams Votto played on including managers?

      • VaRedsFan

        The BRM would have won 87 games with Bell as the manager. -;)

      • greenmtred

        Baloney. A Tigers team that Sparky managed lost 103 games.

      • Melvin

        I don’t think those guys of the BRM would have put up with Bell. hahaha

      • Melvin

        greenmtred – So you’re saying the BRM would have lost 100 games with David Bell. hahaha….Just playing with ya. You do like to debate though. Were you possibly on the debate team in high school or college? 😀

      • greenmtred

        Neither my high school or college had debate teams, Melvin. Maybe if they had, I’d have gotten it out of my system?

      • Melvin

        greenmtred – Maybe there is some other adult debate team you can join. hahaha Ever think of politics? 🙂

      • greenmtred

        Neither is a habit I would encourage myself to adopt, Melvin.

      • Melvin

        greenmtred – That’s okay. You mostly take opposite views of my points. You can have fun doing that instead. 😀

      • Old-school

        @ Melvin

        GMR I believe has stated debating and arguing here is better than debating at home so we are important. He does bring a nuanced opinion and sometimes contrarian which I respect and sometimes disagree with but its ok.

        I dont play drinking games but RLN should all have to drink everytime GMR points out Sparky’s 100 loss season. Hes not incorrect, lol.

      • Melvin

        Old-school – It’s okay to disagree. This is America…..just not with me. 😀

        just kidding

      • VaRedsFan

        @GMR – It’s been documented thru simulations that Bell would have lost 119 games managing that Tigers team.. 😉

      • Melvin

        VaRedsFan – Would that be a Strato simulation? 😉

  32. Jim t

    Loved watching Joey play but it is time to move on. The reds are turning the page and Joey is not part of the future.

  33. TJ

    Joey Votto the next Milwaukee first baseman? I thought about Houston, but Abreu is signed thru 2025.

    • doofus

      Milwaukee, nah. Saskatoon Roughriders, possibly.

  34. Beaufort Red

    Votto4life are you so butt hurt about the Red’s decision that you actually want the Cardinals to win the World Series? Your not a Reds fan, you’re a Votto strap carrier.

    • Mario

      I had to cringe over that St Louis Cardinals comment as well. But your comment is not better. He is allowed to be a fan of Joey Votto. He is allowed to be upset over the team cutting ties with him. Many fans are upset. Some think Joey can still be productive next year after a healthy offseason. I think 300 AB’s was a good plan for him at a salary of about $12 million ($5 base + $7 buyout) but obviously Joey thinks he is worth more $$$ and playing time. I hope he gets it. We can still be fans of the team and of Joey Votto. If he is with the Cardinals, Reds fans will have every right to boo him and maybe Bell can have our pitcher go hunting for his ribs. I would tolerate Milwaukee or even the Cubs but not St Louis.

    • Votto4life


      I believe “You’re” is the word you are looking for.

      • Greenfield Red

        Good for you V4L. You and I don’t always agree, but name calling has no place here.


  35. Grover

    I’ll enjoy watching Votto next year no matter who he plays for. He showed the power is still there, hopefully full healthy off-season lets him rebound in other areas. Always my favorite Red along side Eric Davis and Joe Morgan.

  36. Reddawgs2012

    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same. Thanks for everything, Joey.

  37. Daveyb

    I’ve asked this before, everybody keeps saying jv says this and that when it comes to playing time. When in comes to 2024 I’ve read one article where he stated he wants to come back and be a red, that was it. He has made zero statements about what playing time he expects or demands, I believe everyone is making half-ass assumptions

    • Mario

      u might need to read the Reds official statement.

      • Votto4life

        Perhaps not everyone is so gullible to believe everything the Red’s front says.

      • Mario

        maybe not everyone is so negative on RLN. It’s 100% obvious that Joey thinks he deserves more playing time and more money. If he is willing to accept a part time role and a $3-$5 million dollar salary, then I think this would be a done deal.

  38. Beaufort Red

    That’s precious Votto4life. You’re quicj ti point out my auto spell error and then you do the same. What do they say about Karma?

  39. Beaufort Red

    Sorry the Glenlivet makes my fingers fat.

    • Votto4life

      Haha thanks Beaufort now that made me laugh. I think we can both agree that we need an edit button.

      • Greenfield Red

        I donn’t no whaat ewe too are taking about. Whoo neads a eddit buton%

  40. Jeremiah

    I think definitely the right move for the Reds, but a tough one for some Reds and Votto fans. I would have no problem actually giving Votto a chance to win the 1B or DH job if not for a few factors;

    -The Reds have a lot of infield talent, with Encarnacion Strand and Steer that can play 1B at potentially a high level especially hitting, and probably better than Votto on defense.
    -The money…no way can you give Votto 20 million with his age, struggles at the plate the last few years. Over approximately his last 600 ABs he’s hitting about .205 with an .315 OBP.

    If the Reds didn’t have the talent, and this was like 2019 and Votto was like 40 at that time, I would say, we’ll give you maybe 12-14 million and you can Start at 1B or DH.

    I think the circumstances and timing though aren’t in Votto’s favor. I do feel for him a bit, because I would have liked to see how he did if fully healthy last year, if he hadn’t been coming off an injury.

    If he wants to play another year for say Toronto, or accept a limited role on the Reds he could do that. I don’t think I feel any differently about Votto as a great Reds if he happened to play his last year in Toronto, Boston etc.

    Barry Larkin kind of was that classic nostalgic MLB guy from the past who wanted to retire a Red, but I think the Reds kind of overpaid him in his last contract and he didn’t really produce too much if I remember correctly.

    Votto made a ton of money as a Red and I think he’s very appreciative. Tough for these guys to retire I think especially when you’re that good and it’s been so much of your adult life it’d be hard.

    • TR

      No matter what anyone has done in their working life, retirement can be a big change where memories, of what you spent a major proportion of your life, eventually begin to fade. Then other things usually come along to replace them. Retirement can be positively anticipated but, on the other hand a bit frightening. It takes time to work it out. Joey Votto has had a great career as a dedicated Redleg. I wish him well.

  41. Jeremiah

    I hadn’t read Krall’s words originally before posting. I’m not sure I like the way he said the “playing time Joey deserves.” What’s that mean? Just kind of sounds silly to me. Obviously the Reds didn’t believe he deserved the playing time Joey Votto thought he deserves…I’m confused! But it kind of almost makes Votto look a little petty or unrealistic or something, I don’t know. Just kind of an odd statement in my mind. But hey I’m not the PR guy, and maybe others think it sounds fine.

    Don’t mean to be to critical, but you look at some of the comments of Phil Castellini in recent years, David Bell’s postgame comments, etc. and it makes me think Reds management doesn’t quite understand how things sounds or come across. They need to take some Public Relations college classes!

    • Mario

      Totally agree with them needing PR classes. They have lost countless $$$ due to their past careless comments. I found nothing wrong with this statement. Think of it in these terms. If it was your job to issue a statement, what would you say? I think it would be worse for Krall to say something about the playing time Joey thinks he deserves.

  42. rednat

    1. I will start out by saying i have always felt Joey is a little overrated when compared to the other reds greats I have seen( and I go back to the Frank Robinson days).

    2. I think the reds have just been so bad this century that sometimes as fans we grasp for something, anything to give us some comfort. and I guess Joey’s “advance stats” were something that could give us at least some pride to be a reds fan.

    3. I just can’t put him up there with Robinson, Rose, Morgan, Bench as the greatest of All reds. Maybe there are some advance metrics that can demonstrate that he was just as good or better than these players but my eye test just won’t allow me to put him in the same category.

    4. Having said all this I do think he deserves the 20 million and another year. Is it really going to break the bank to pay him an extra 13 mil? Is it really going to destroy the careers of CES and Steer if they have to compete with him for extra playing time?

    5. Joey has put up with a lot of losing over the last 17 years and never really complained. he was a great citizen and ambassador for the city. I enjoyed watching him grow as a person over the years. I am sure he was frustrated to be part of such bad teams but he developed a great sense of humor to deal with pain of losing and I really admire that.

  43. Rick

    Joey was a great Reds player(regular season) that is. Yes it was a limited postseason run of 11 games that could’ve been more had we won and advanced.
    In 47 total unofficial ab’s he wasn’t clutch. Matter of fact he singled in one run in 2010, that’s his career total. So I don’t buy into the notion that the old wiley vet Votto could help us win a WS. Some guys own the big stage, others tense up and shrink from the pressure.
    He would be too expensive as the 26th man, those fringe guys cost 3 M or less, & are usually depth insurance, a defensive upgrade, base stealer, dependable PH, or a #2 catcher.
    Our money needs spent wisely to fill valuable holes, starting with pitching.
    Good luck JV, but only elsewhere.

  44. Hanawi

    Not a surprise decision. Not a surprise that this front office managed to bungle it and release a rather callous statement. Not a surprise that the Votto haters are out in force in this thread. The jealousy and hatred from many in the fan base after he signed his contract is sad to see. Same happened with Griffey. I hope Joey goes to a team where he has some success and is appreciated by the fan base. He’s one of the top 2-3 hitters in the history of the Reds and was a great ambassador for the team and the city.

    • VaRedsFan

      I haven’t read many comments that say they hated Joey Votto. He was being paid like the 2010 version of himself and then later, reproduced that effort in 2017. Then he only had 1 decent season over the last 6. That was the disappointing part of Votto.

      • Rick

        They get hate mixed up with a reality check for some reason.

      • Hanawi

        Votto more than earned his salary over its life. If you don’t understand that, then I can’t help you. There are plenty on here that take any chance to degrade what he did as a Cincinnati Red. They are stuck in the 70s with no understanding of the modern game. I would name names but they are pretty open with their distaste.

  45. west larry

    The reds paid Joey over 250.00 million, and he earned it all in his first five years of the contract. Due to age, health concerns and whatever, Joey has had one excellent year in the last five years. It’s time to retire and move on to the next phase of your life. Thank you for your service to the reds and goodbye.

  46. DX

    Many years ago……Votto was so good that dinner may get delayed with the comment “we’ll be there is a sec Votto is up”, My disappointment was how many years the Reds wasted mvp type seasons of Votto. They signed Votto and for ten years yet didn’t get him any help. It is time to move on but I will miss watching one of the best Reds players of all time

  47. old-school

    It does seem odd looking at that roster.

    One has to wonder if India, Barrero, and Senzel are on that roster come Spring training. Jim Bowden in his recent piece surveyed each FO on their needs over the winter and he noted the Reds told him SP,RP with a focus on quality and depth and a RH hitting OF. If Steer isnt that RH hitting OF, they certainly need one.

    Id propose a Jon India for Lane Thomas trade. That would open up the infield, get a quality RF with a righty bat in the REds lineup. India has 3 years of control, Thomas 2. He’s not a big bopper but crushes lefties, hits righties ok , has some power, speed and is nominated for GG. He had a breakout season but with only 2 more years of control, isnt part of the Nats future, unless they sign him to an extension. Nats also have some controlled bullpen arms so perhaps Reds could send some prospects with India to fill 2 holes in OF and bullpen.

    Id love a 5 man young IF of marte/Elly/McLain/CES/Steer.
    OF of Benson,Friedl,Fraley, Thomas+ C Stephenson.
    DH gives some rest and rotation for the Core 10 guys.

    That allows Maile, a utility guy and a bench bat to fill out the roster.

    • Kevin Patrick

      I think the Reds will do something very much like this. Great job finding a name the Reds could pursue reasonably.

    • Laredo Slider

      Would love a trade for Lane Thomas!

    • Old Big Ed

      I’m not sure why the Nats would want to give up a pretty good RF for Jonathan India. They have Luis Garcia (24 in 2024) at 2B, and Brady House is a top prospect for them at 3B. House made it all the way to AA this season at age 20, and slashed .324/.358/.475. They don’t need India, except for maybe a season, and they can find a 1-year 3B for a lot less than a valuable right-fielder.

      Lane would be perfect, but India won’t get him. The Nats would at least want Collier and somebody like Blake Dunn. I think I’d just rather count on Dunn.

      • old-school

        Nats lost 91 games and still owe Strasburg $105 mil and Patrick Corbin $35 mil in 2024. Their winning window isnt next year. Unless they extend Thomas, he will be a FA after the 2025 season. They have some good controlled bullpen pieces as well, so might be worth grabbing a hunter Harvey or Kyle Finnegan in a package. If it costs India + significant prospect capital, so be it. Reds are 4-5 players a way and Thomas would close 1 gap and Harvey or Finnegan narrow the other. Could then focus on spending money in FA on SP and another reliever.

      • Greenfield Red

        I like these ideas OS. As the guy who was against the Reds making deadline trades, I think it would be helpful for next year and 25 to add via trade as well as free agency.

  48. RedFuture

    Joey Votto should absolutely brought back for 1 more year where he should be limited to DH versus LH pitchers.

    • Jim

      If Votto is back, then all you guys will be talking about is Votto, so let’s move on with our new and Exciting Team!! Period

      • TR

        Yes indeed. We’re in one of the most exciting times in Reds baseball, other than the BRM era, which for me goes back to the late 1940’s.

  49. Steve

    Never happen but go bold. Still have payroll below 100 million.
    Sign Nola 8 years 26 mill/ year
    Sign Bellinger 6 years 150 or however long it takes at 25 mill/year
    Trade Friedl, Williamson, and lower top 10 prospect to tigers for skubal.
    Move lodolo to BP to become next hader

    CF Bellinger
    3B Marte
    2B McClain
    1B Encarnacion
    LF Steer
    SS Elly
    RF/ Benson/Fraley
    DH India
    C Stephenson

    Trade lower minor leaguer for RH bench OF bat and strike gold IE benson trade ha



  50. Pete

    End of an era and the beginning of a new one. A great Red and equally valuable as a representative of baseball and Cincinnati. I really thought they would pick up the option and happily surprised they didn’t. It was the right baseball move. There will be some backlash from a large segment of the fans for a while but it will pass if this team is near as good as I expect it to be

    Hope he is back in some role with the organization when his playing career ends. Thank you Joey for the memories.

  51. Old Big Ed

    I still believe that there is about a 30% chance that Votto resigns with Cincinnati. The Reds and Krall made it pretty clear that the decision not to exercise their option was based on the roster “at the present time” and that they weren’t closing any doors. I could see where they would trade any number of guys — India, Fraley, Senzel (whom they may also non-tender when the time comes), and the roster thereafter would have a spot open for a player with Votto’s skills. Trading Fraley, for example, would open a spot for a LH hitter for DH and spot duty.

    Meanwhile, Votto has a chance to test the market for a competitive team that has playing time available at 1B or as LH-hitting DH. I can’t find that team, but one could develop.

    The Blue Jays are going to have a transitional off-season. Brandon Belt, Kevin Kiermaier, Matt Chapman and Whit Merrifield are all regular position players who are now free agents. Belt was the DH. 1B is manned by Vlad Jr., but he can be DH. Votto might work for them, but signing Jeimer Candelario makes more sense. They have a decent pitching staff, plus Vlad Jr. and Bichette, and they probably will look to compete next season in a tightening window.

    The Blue Jays are not as consistently bad at trades as the Cardinals have been lately, but last off-season they traded Dalton Varsho, who can’t hit, to the D-Backs for Gabriel Moreno and Lourdes Gurriel, Jr. (Gurriel Jr. is a free agent now, but his “defense” restricts him to LF.)

    • Old-school


      Cards also bad at trading players for “cash considerations”

      They gave upon ALCS MVP and WS champion Adolis Garcia and traded him for cash to upgrade the cards bullpen.

  52. Old Big Ed

    The Padres did not exercise their option on Michael Wacha, who had a pretty good season for SD last year, and is still only 32.

    Wacha is pretty much exactly the type of veteran pitcher that the young Reds staff needs, as is Sonny Gray. I would make Wacha my Priority A for the off-season.