The Cincinnati Reds didn’t have a hit through the first five innings of the game and trailed 2-0. But they got things going in the 6th and completed a come-from-behind win in Rally Reds fashion to wrap up their home schedule for the regular season with a 4-2 victory in what may have been the final home game for Joey Votto after 17 seasons with the club.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Pittsburgh Pirates (74-82) |
2 | 7 | 1 |
| Cincinnati Reds (80-77) |
4 | 6 | 0 |
| W: Sims (7-3) L: Hernandez (1-2) SV: Gibaut (3) | |||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
The bottom of the 1st inning started out well for the Reds as both Jonathan India and TJ Friedl walked, but the inning went nowhere as a double play and pop up followed. Brandon Williamson got himself into some trouble in the top of the 2nd after allowing a 1-out double and followed it up with a walk and a wild pitch to put two men in scoring position, but he got out of it with a fly out to center to keep the game scoreless.
In the bottom of the second inning Joey Votto came to the plate with one out and the home crowd gave him a standing ovation and were heard chanting “Joey, Joey!” as he stepped out of the box to acknowledge the crowd who was showing their appreciation for his 17-year career in what could be his final game at Great American Ball Park.
Joey Votto loves Cincinnati and Cincinnati loves Joey Votto.
Here was the scene as Votto came to the plate for the first time today at Great American Ball Park. @JoeyVotto | @Reds pic.twitter.com/cEj9a6X0Y5
— Bally Sports Cincinnati (@BallySportsCIN) September 24, 2023
Votto would eventually strike out looking and the Reds would go in order in the inning.
Neither team would do much of anything in the next couple of innings. But in the top of the 5th inning Jack Suwinski put the Pirates in front with his 26th homer of the season with a leadoff solo shot. Pittsburgh added on after a 1-out double was followed by an RBI single from Jason Delay to extend their lead to 2-0. That would mark the end of the day for Brandon Williamson as David Bell called on Buck Farmer to enter the game and while he issued a 2-out walk, he’d get out of the inning with no further damage.
Cincinnati went down in order in the 5th, leaving them hitless on the day against a pitcher who had given up four or more runs in every start he’s made this season (eight of them) but one – and in that one he allowed three runs in 4.0 innings. The club would finally break through when Jonathan India led off the 6th with a single into left field. TJ Friedl then followed up with a game-tying, 2-run homer.
That group got together again in the bottom of the 7th to put the Reds in front. India picked up a 2-out double and then came around to score on Friedl’s single into left that put the home team up 3-2. Alexis Diaz entered the game for the 8th inning. He had to work around two walks, but picked up a strikeout to strand both runners and keep Cincinnati on top.
Christian Encarnacion-Strand crushed a 1-out home run to put the Reds up 4-2 in the bottom of the 8th. Joey Votto then stepped up to the plate and with the crowd chanting “Joey, Joey!” once again, he lined a single into center. Cincinnati then called for a pinch runner and Votto went down the line in the dugout getting high fives from everyone before taking a curtain call and acknowledging the crowd who was still chanting his name.
Ian Gibaut came out of the bullpen to try and pick up the save in the 9th inning. He made quick work of things, needing just 10 pitches to retire the Pirates in order and help the Reds avoid being swept as Cincinnati picked up the 4-2 win.
Key Moment of the Game
TJ Friedl’s go-ahead hit in the bottom of the 7th inning.
Notes worth noting
Joey Votto was the post-game interview on Bally Sports Ohio. Here’s how that went:
To: Reds Country
From: @JoeyVotto pic.twitter.com/E7CjgcVs9l
— Cincinnati Reds (@Reds) September 24, 2023
TJ Friedl has homered in three straight games. The Reds broadcast on Bally Sports Ohio noted that Friedl joined Roberto Alomar as the only player in MLB over the last 50 years to have 17 home runs and 17 bunt hits in the same season.
The Marlins won in Milwaukee. Arizona is leading the Yankees in the 8th inning. The Cubs are up by a run in the 8th. There are five games remaining for Cincinnati and they’ll probably need to win all of them to have a real chance at making the playoffs.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Cincinnati Reds vs Cleveland Guardians
Tuesday September 25th, 6:10pm ET
Hunter Greene (4-6, 4.24 ERA) vs Lucas Giolito (8-14, 4.60 ERA)
Louisville won again, finishing 75-73. A testament to Krall’s farm system that the Reds have not only improved greatly, but despite all the call ups Louisville clinched a winning season for the first time in forever.
Yep, But check the record before and after the Big 3 of McLain, EDLC and CES were called up
The last of the 3 was CES. They were 48-40 when he was called and 27-33 afterwards.
Where were these same relievers the last three nights won. Wow, what a ride!
If that ends up being Joey’s final game as a Red, it was quite special, and a good send off, in my opinion. As much as we may want something more grand, that was very real. Sometimes these things get overblown and a bit fake, but again, I felt like that was quite special.
Could not agree more, DW. Spontaneous and authentic. Joey Votto is a class act and has not only been one of the best hitters in Reds’ (MLB?) history, but also has shown tremendous growth as a human being during his career (at least as this fan can ascertain). I will always be a fan and wish him well, whatever the future may hold.
I also like the fact that he quickly turned his post-game comments to the team as a whole, and how their aspirations link with his. Who knows? Maybe that few minutes “off the field” turn out to be a catalyst of sorts for the final five games? What teammate (especially all those young ‘ins) would NOT be inspired? Go Reds!
I think Votto is greatest batter in Reds history. He’s definitely among the best hitters buts definitely the greatest batter. During his peak years, he was the toughest out in baseball.
Votto showed all those young players and fans one of the most important qualifies in any successful person – gratefulness. In fact, he’s always grateful and I’m guessing it’s a daily practice for him.
Well, I’m grateful for the last 17 years watching him play this amazing game. He’s the nerd that made it!
Agree. I remember, too, when pitchers hated facing him because he made them work so hard. Guaranteed walk or hit. Not the last few years, obviously, but in his prime. Let us not forget. The Reds usually had a lousy team supporting him, but he stood out. If only he had the proper supporting cast …
@Tom>>> It is difficult to compare players from different eras. OPS+ tells us how each compared with his contemporaries and Votto is right there with Joe Morgan as a Reds player.
With the Reds Morgan’s OPS+ was 147; Votto’s is 144. Morgan also has that razor thin advantage in OBP as a Reds player .415 to .409 over Votto.
But Votto’s career numbers are slightly better 144/132 on OPS+ and .409/.392 on OBP. I’d guess Riverfront was a better slugging park for Joe than his other home team venues (recall the Astro Dome was a hitter’s death valley).
And yes, both Morgan and Votto topped Pete Rose’s OBP both as a Reds player, .379 and career .375
That’s why I say he’s among the best Reds hitters and I give him the nod as the Red’s greatest batter.
agree DW, That was not a bad send-off at all if that was Joey’s last game. He has always been understated and shied away from attention. I would simply say, one of the greatest Reds of all time.
I truly believe Joey simply wanted to work at getting back to where he was all year long and didn’t want to consider this his last year. This prevented the team from giving him a long send-off tour. But I think its clear, this is Joey’s last year. He hates not being able to produce like he used to and playing as a part time DH is not his style.
Agreed. His postgame comments seem to indicate he wants to go out on his terms, to not be a drag on the team, and to not have his fate decided for him by getting cut. While I think he could be an effective part time player next season, it likely won’t help his HOF chances…..in fact, it could hurt if he goes out with a whimper.
>SultanofSwaff…I agree with your point on Votto’s as a HOF candidate and several of the pundits at MLN Network. Rosenthal, Morosi and Heyman all commented during the trade deadline coverage that the longer Votto went on as the player he is now, the more it lessened his chances of getting in the HOF. None of them rated him as a first ballot player or a slam dunk, but one who would be voted in a few years down the road.
Friedl – .280/.353/.466
“TJ Friedl has homered in three straight games. The Reds broadcast on Bally Sports Ohio noted that Friedl joined Roberto Alomar as the only player in MLB over the last 50 years to have 17 home runs and 17 bunt hits in the same season.”
He’s my starter in LF next year playing virtually EVERY DAY….with EDLC in CF. 😉
Whose the team MVP, Friedl or Steer?
Have to give it to Steer. He’s played so many positions and hit well while playing solid defense.
He’s my right fielder next year.
I think Steer too…I’m not sure Steer is a great defensive outfielder though especially in Right does he have the arm? I feel 2B is his best position, or maybe 1st, but not sure.
Steer. He hasn’t typically been the headliner, but steady as she goes… But I do like Friedl’s fire and effort as well. Both are keepers.
Seems to have a pretty good arm. Probably better than that of Friedl which is why I have him in RF. He also seems to track balls fairly well.
Overall arm strength per Statcast
Steer – 87.9 – RF
Friedl – 85.4 – LF
EDLC – 96.2 – CF
Need your best arm in right, hence EDLC. Throw from right to 3rd is the hardest in baseball. Only a few had the arm.
Guess I’m one of those people that think a good arm is needed in CF as well as RF.
Fo you think EDLC will be a better centerfielder than Friedl who’s played outfield his while life? I don’t think so . EDLC in right, has the best arm. He has a lot of work to do if wants to break camp with the team. McClain, Steer, CES and Marte are better. Even Benson is more reliable.
We’ll see. EDLC has fast long strides that will cover the most ground and definitely has the best arm probably in baseball. He’d be picking HRs above the wall.
I prefer a strong arm from the left side in right field to field balls down the line in the corner and get the runner at third or at home plate.
Where are you gonna play Benson?
Those three are all non platoon players. Someone has to go to the bench or get traded. Not enough spots.
Nice win for the Reds. While they most likely won’t make the playoffs I will give them credit that they’ve fought pretty hard just gonna come up a little short it seems. And boy TJ Friedl has really been good down the stretch
Does anyone know if Votto is definitely retiring? Maybe I’ve been out of the loop, it seems like he’s retiring, but not real sure? Would he play for another team next year? I think he could still be a part time DH if he wanted to play for someone, but don’t think for the Reds it would be a good idea to pay him $20 million.
I think it’s important for the Reds to finish strong here maybe win 4-5 even if they don’t make the playoffs, I think it’s a small win for the future going into 2024. Lots of great experience gained by Williamson, Phillips, Encarnacion-Strand, Marte, EDC, etc. hopefully carries over into next year.
I don’t think Joey knows. There have been hints here and there that the front office doesn’t want to pick up his option. He’s also 40 and had a recent surgery. Joey also isn’t the kind of person who would want a farewell tour like Pujols or Cabrera got.
I would bring him back. He’s still a useful player, and it’s not like our payroll doesn’t have room. But, we just don’t know.
I’d bring him back as well. I don’t know that I bring him back for $20m. I’d definitely try and work out a deal.
For 2024, I think the challenge for Krall will be to prepare for pitching injuries and have pitchers in reserve. I’m not sure how he pulls that off. On paper, they’ve got the starting rotation and then some. They also have most of the bullpen. But I think I still add another top notch closer or two.
I think it may be the roster spot as much or more than the money that concerns the Reds.
If the Reds platoon 2 OF spots and carry a backup middle infielder along with the 2nd catcher, that’s a full bench for a 26 man roster with 9 position players required every day in the DH world and 13 pitchers.
No need for a back up middle infielder. Roster is deep with core guys who can play MI or CI
Marte ces elly mcLain and Steer fill all the gaps plus whatever they decide on India
No need for a newman etc
Newman?
Is he just drifting off into the IL ether along with Casali and now Bader?
What would be the point of keeping him around, unless India and Senzel were traded / non-tendered?
Bell would likely love it.
I understand the reasoning behind that Newman was acquired as insurance when Barrero tanked last year and the team decided to move on from Farmer.
Now with a surplus of infielders (Steer, Senzel, EDLC, McLain, Marte, CES, India) there really isn’t a need.
Which is why it seems as if he’s twisting in the wind, Reds’s style.
But he’s still under contract, right?
@Harry
Yes, Newman is Arb 3 next year. Possibly a trade candidate. He’s still a useful player, but our infield doesn’t have a lot of room on paper.
I don’t think anyone knows. Regardless, the Reds’ fans wanted to show their appreciation “in the moment,” and did. And Votto responded as he usually does — with class. I love the first at-bat, where he finally gestures toward home plate and mouths: “I have to go hit now.”
Stay tuned….
And I think “anyone” includes JV himself.
Cannot deny they didn’t quit today. I was highly skeptical when we were hitless and down by 2. Nice team effort.
MattyMc back on Tuesday?
The Reds really need to run the table the last five games. If they pull that rabbit out of the hat then they are in if 2 of the following things happen (I think)…
Ari goes 3-4
Chi goes 3-3
Mia goes 3-3
The Reds need to win five and two of the three above have to win 3 or fewer games. Not likely, but still possible.
I’m sure Bell had his reasons for how he sequenced his relievers on Friday and Saturday.
However, the after action report is going to be he should have used Cruz with a lead on Friday and Moll where he used Young on Saturday. Odds are they would have won at least one of those games and still have a legitimate chance, although Marlins bouncing back to take 2 of 3 from Brewers would have still been very tough given the tiebreaker situation.
Moll in a 9-1 game seems crazy though. How bout pulling him after 3 hitters though? They’ll have the money and we’ll have enough arms next year where we don’t need guys like Farmer, Young, Lively, Kennedy, Speiers etc. Or atleast only occasionally.
In normal times I would agree but they had frittered away 2 games and had to have this one. Send in the best guy to shut down this fire quickly and get out with a 5 or 6 run lead with 9 outs to go.
Bell was probably thinking about the 9th inning or today when he did not have that luxury.
Two more victories out of the last five games and they’ll secure a winning season, that’s a lot to say right after a 100 losses season. Future is bright, I hope FO will make some meaningful moves this offseason.
Thank you Joey Votto for entertaining me as a Reds fan for 17 years. That’s why the jersey I wear to the games has you name in it.
CES with another bomb. Quite the September despite being benched in the middle of the month for 3-4 games. That was weird? Was he dinged up or did Bell really think Votto/OV Daddy 9-Toe Fraley we’re better options? Glad we won Vottos last home game. Hint hint. Last. Home. Game. You have to the dinosaurs and away from Bell like a rowdy one year old. What you used to do is very important. What you’re doing now. Not so much
Yeah, it’s been a strange season for CES.
Hits .600 + in ST, and gets kissed off by Bell.
Tears up AAA and twists in the wind waiting for a call up while Myers and Newman clog up the lineup.
“Needs to work on things…” but Bell happy to then shuttle him between 3rd and 1st.
Just as he’s settling in to a productive streak, Bell sits him with no word to the press or fans.
Returns to the lineup, starts belting dingers and Bell bats him cleanup, until the .140 hitting Fraley bumps him out.
He still homers.
Wouldn’t be surprised if this winter the Reds sign the .220 hitting EDLC to a 10 year contract and trade CES for an innings-nibbler.
Cracking me up. lol 😀
Marte has been hot and he set today. lol
Marte has been ice cold the last week, but yes he was red hot the week before that.
Over the last two weeks combined, Marte has a solid .779 OPS.
So Joey is a dinosaur? Nice, real nice.
Votto needs to be the next hitting coach. He must remain a part of this youth movement.
The infield will eventually be Marte , McClain, Barrero, and CES.
The outfield will be Friedl, EDLC, Steer, Benson, and Dunn.
Pitching Starters will be Greene, Lodolo, Williamson, Phillips, Ashcroft, and Abbott in long relief.
We will need to add some bull pen help through free agency
Have to wonder who among India and Fraley and Senzel and Fairchild will still be part of the plan
no offense doc4uk, but the starting rotation had better have some new names in it if the plan is to make the playoffs next year. We can’t count on any of those pitchers to pitch 150 innings. Until they demonstrate it, we need a couple veteran starters.
Bullpen and free agency in the same sentence is always a risk. Reliever performance is so fickle – unless you play at the top of the category, which means 10-15 million annually. But that may be what we have to do.
@Redsvol, Abbott is over 160 so far this season, and should be able to go more in 24. You are 100% right about the need to add to our rotation, and bullpen. If we added Snell he’s projected at $20M * 5Y, and Hader $15M * 5Y we’d be looking a whole lot better. I’d also be happy with Chapman if we go a bit cheaper, but I haven’t seen any projections on his next likely contract yet.
Snell, Greene, Abbott, Ashcraft, Williamson as your rotation with Phillips, Richardson, Stoudt, Gutierrez, and Dunn in AAA as depth.
Hader, Diaz, Lodolo, Antone, Young, Gibaut, Moll, Lively as the pen with Cruze, Duarte, Santillan, and Legumina in AAA as depth.
I don’t think we need to add any position players. I was thinking we needed a DH, but I think Fraley can fill that void perfectly, and it allows us some flexibility to add Steer into an everyday OF position.
DH Fraley, C Stephenson, C Maile 1B CES
2B India, 3B EDLC, SS McLain, 2B/3B/SS Marte
RF Steer, CF Friedl, LF Benson
At some point I’d like Dunn, and Hurtubise to grab the last 2 spots, but Fairchild, and Hopkins might be more likely to start the season on the Reds.
In the pre-season I tried to guess the pitchers and 1,400-1,450 ip over 162 games – thinking Greene. Lodolo and Ashcraft needed 150 apiece, so there is 450, and then hoping for 1,000 from the others.
Even with a bit on the IL and a bad stretch, Ashcraft is clearly there, and Abbott as well. Greene and Williamson are close enough. Phillips and Lodolo lead the remainder returning. Unless he falters, I’d expect Petty in mid-season, but as a spot start/2+ip reliever, after he gets 10-12 starts in AAA.
They still need 1 good FA starter (Sonny?!) and several relievers, AND a RH power hitting OFer. I suspect Joey is returning as the LH power DH/1b.
And, as always, 3 catchers in addition to TySteve – they caught some breaks this year only needing 2 1/4 w/ Casali for a while. Usually need 3 or 4.
There will be trades to clear spaces, but doubtful they get an MLB starter in return. They’ve done pretty well picking up relievers and prospects.
He Redsvol. Yes agreed 100%. No cheaping out and going after bargain basement players next year! Most of the current roster is making very little as it stands. Someone needs to work intensively with EDLC over the off season. Huge JV fan but this should be his last year as a player for the Reds. Reds need ever nickel and at bat for the young players and free agents. Oh yeah also need MUCH better luck with health.
I would also like to see Joey Votto as Red’s hitting coach, or as a member of the broadcasting team. Maybe eventually in a front office position. He’s spent his career with one team and obviously loves Cincinnati.
Hey TR. Agreed. Would love to see him as a broadcaster, first with the Reds but also I think he would be great nationally.
Barrero no. That ship has sailed.
Barrero is out of options next year. I think he would be a very valuable bench piece for the Reds, as he can play above average defense at two key positions – SS and CF. Plus I haven’t given up on his bat.
Barrero’s defense in the OF is below average, or it was as a Red. I don’t know if he got better in AAA. He’s one of the guys I’m trading in the offseason. Barrero, Senzel, Newman, and Sims should be moved. They might not bring back a lot, but they’d be taking up valuable 40 man spots if not moved.
MBS, you just traded away our 2024 bench. Those valuable roster spots would just be taken up free agents we’d have to then sign. We don’t want to bring up additional prospects to sit on the bench next year. I’m hoping Senzel and Barrero are back as key bench pieces.
lol, I hope not. I got Maile, Marte, Dunn, and Hurtubise on the bench. Hopefully Dunn, and Hurtubise get early callups. I’d use Fairchild, and Hopkins as placeholders.
DH Fraley / Stephenson
C Maile / Stephenson
1B CES / Stephenson
====================
2B India / Marte
3B EDLC / Marte
SS McLain / Marte
====================
RF Benson / (Fairchild/Dunn)
CF Friedl / (Fairchild/Dunn)
LF Steer / (Hopkins/Hurtubise)
If we have a bench full of infielders then Bell will take starts away from Marte to keep all the guys engaged. I don’t want to see that happen.
Stephenson is only catching next year – no DH and no 1B. We have two 1B (CES and Steer) that hit better than Stephenson.
Steer is a super-sub, starting six out of seven games per week. He moved all over this year playing five positions, and hit back never suffered.
We have three outfielders (four if you count Steer) that proved themselves this year. They are my starters in 2024. Dunn stays in the minors until there’s an injury or he forces his way on the team the way the rookies did this year.
DH – one of our 10 starters not staring at a position
C Stephenson / backup catcher
1B CES / Steer
====================
2B McLain / India / Steer
3B Marte / EDLC / CES / Steer
SS EDLC / McLain / Marte
====================
RF Fraley / Senzel against lefties
CF Friedl / Barrero backup
LF Benson / Steer against lefties
@WK, I don’t dislike your setup, I obviously prefer mine for a few reasons.
1) Stephenson is not a good C, his framing, and pitch calling is far behind Maile. We have so many young pitchers that will benefit from Maile, more than they would from Stephenson.
Stephenson also has better #’s than most think as a non catcher. These are career #’s, his 23 #’s are even better. DH .282 BA .358 OBP, 1B .240 BA . 367 OBP, PH .298 BA .328 OBP. We’re only talking about 1 game or 2 out of 9 at DH, or 1B. He would not be in a platoon, just a back up.
2) Most people don’t hit as a DH, so to have a guys like Fraley who career #’s are .273 BA .371 OBP, he’s a natural fit. These #’s are also better than his numbers playing at any position in the OF.
3) Moving Fraley into a full time DH opens up a spot in the OF to let Steer who is one of our best hitters this season to have an everyday position.
4) You’ve got India as the back up to 2B, if that’s the plan we should trade him, because he’s too valuable to backup 2B alone.
The Dunn, and Hurtubise additions don’t need to happen, until they need to happen. That could be from injuries on the MLB club, or they are just abusing the AAA pitchers. Fairchild, and Hopkins would make fine 12th, and 13th players in the meantime.
I think 1 thing that is interesting lately is to see who has thrived under the pressure of competing in these must win games. Here is who has shown me they won’t shrink under the pressure of a playoff series;
Hunter Greene
TJ Friedl
Steer
CES
Sims
Sam Moll
Felix Cruz
And a few who have wilted under the pressure;
Tyler Stephenson
Nick Senzel
Diaz
Law, Gibault, Farmer
A few i feel just had too few appearances in September to rank and I gave EDLC a pass just because he clearly is worn out. But I think its clear we have a few who I think would do well in a playoff environment – And not enough starting pitching to count on.
Senzel?? He hasn’t played much. But when he has played, he’s had a .826 OPS these last 2 weeks.
How can Friedl and Steer still be busting but a 21 year old (EDLC) be worn out. It’s not like he’s been running the bases lately.
Yeah, I agree.
Well, they are different people.
I think the often overlooked stress of 13 or 14 road trips in a long 162 game season can contribute to the wearing down of a player depending on how he adjusts to travel.
It is very common for young players (and specifically rookies) to “hit the wall” due to the fact their bodies are not used to playing a 162-game seasons. College teams play 60-70 games, low minor league teams teams play 80-120. Even AA and AAA teams only play 140 game seasons. Plus add the faster pace of MLB and the vast difference in talent level and it is easy to see why these guys run out of gas. I believe this is what has happened to many of the Reds rookies…and, frankly, it was not unexpected.
I saw the start of the game and I caught the 9th inning, and the Jim Day/Votto interview. It was sad and cool at the same time. I have a very sick sister back in a KY. Hospital battling several serious issues that had my full attention.
It was nice to see parts of the game and enjoy a Reds win, and see a Votto era coming to a mixed emotional end.
I will enjoy the final 5 games and continue my armchair unofficial GM gig:)
Sorry to hear about your sister Rick. Hopefully our Reds have given you some nice distraction to keep your spirits up.
Thank you very much Redsvol. They did Sunday for sure. And we’re still plugging along. It would be wonderful to see us in the playoffs again.
Your post is kind, and your post are never mean spirited, thank You very much!
i think the reds and Votto can get really creative for next year and beyond. I wonder if Votto would come back on a minor league contract where he is a player/mentor for the younger players. I think he could have a real impact on the organization that way and heck, if he is “still banging” they could “call him up” for a series or 2.
I get the feeling that he wants to be around the game but I don’t really see him in a formal coaching position. this would be a perfect fit for him.
Honestly, the Reds bullpen effectively put the nail in the Reds’ playoff coffin this past week.
Going back to last Sunday, over the past 7 games the bullpen had:
0 Wins
4 Losses
11.90 ERA
2.18 WHIP
6.2 Walks / 9IP
1.4 K’s per Walk
…and allowed what seems like a ton of inherited runners scored too.
Not that it matters but my son reminded me yesterday that in 2011 the Cardinals were 3 behind the Braves with 5 to play. Braves went 0 and 5 while Cardinals went 4 and 1, they didn’t even need a tie breaker. I just hope the Reds don’t have to look back at Saturday night as a game that costs them a playoff spot. The reality is getting 2 more wins to finish above .500 is a bigger concern.
Said this well before either was called up that CES would end up a better overall hitter than EDLC. Still maintain that now. Course EDLC could still be the better overall player as well.
I don’t think that was disputed. CES was considered the best pure hitter of the rookies. The knock on him was defense, and I think he’s held his own at 1B, and hasn’t looked terrible at 3B either.
Using 200 at-bats as a minimum, as this will include most of the rookies that came in mid-year, here’s all hitters for the year, ranked by OPS:
1. McLain .864
2. Benson .851
3. Friedl .819
4. CES .813
5. Steer .813
6. Fraley .792
7. Votto .748
8. India .734
9. Fairchild .699
10. Stephson .697
11. Senzel .693
12. De La Cruz .685
13. Newman .675
Some thoughts:
-In 2022, we had two hitters that had over 200 at-bats and an OPS above .250. That was Fraley and Drury. This year we have six!
-And those top six hitters are all well-above average and either a rookie or 2nd year player. This bodes well for the future.
-Marte is only at 92 at-bats for the year, with a .730 OPS. But it’s been on the rise the last two weeks.
-Over the last 30 days, two Reds have had an OPS over 1.000 (with at least 80 at-bats): CES and Friedl.
-After Benson’s horrible start to the year, who would have guessed we would get this level of production. I do credit Bell with how he’s used Benson and Fraley this year.
-McLain went on the IL right at a month ago. Losing your best hitter for the playoff push really hurt, especially with EDLC getting ~90 at-bats during that month with a .463 OPS (ouch!).
-During that same time period, Renfroe and Bader got ~70 at-bats combined, with a .430 OPS. I liked the pick-ups at the time, but man they didn’t work out.
-The outlook is very bright next year offensively. We should have a lot of money to spend this offseason, and I hope all of it goes towards adding pitching and signing key players long-term.
Great informative post.
I think most of the main guys will be 20HR’s if healthy, and playing next year.
CES 21 MILB 11 MLB combined 32 HR’s
EDLC 12 MILB 11 MLB combined 23 HR’s
McLain 12 MILB 16 MLB combined 28 HR’s
Steer 22 HR’s
India 16 HR in 115 games / @ 145 games = 20 HR’s
Fraley 15 HR in 110 games / @ 147 games = 20 HR’s
Friedl 17 HR in 137 games / @ 162 games = 20 HR’s
Benson 11 HR in 103 games / just a terrible start for the kid, but he’s got all kinds of power and good pitch recognition
Marte, and Stephenson are the 2 biggest stretches to get there, but both clearly have the power. Stephenson likes to go the other way too much to get a ton of jacks, and Marte is still tapping into his power, maybe it will come this season.
Can’t play EDLC at short, though. He’s got 13 errors at short and only 1 at third for the Reds this season. Yes, he had lots more chances at short than at third, but he’s simply been bad at short. When did he start playing there regularly? Since the ASB he’s been horrible at the plate too. Before he was called up, some were saying he should play in the outfield. I didn’t think so, and most said his arm would be wasted out there. But you simply can’t make so many errors when you’ve got so many young pitchers.
EDLC is not a SS, he’s a 3B to me.
He started playing there regularly when McLain went on the IL.
I feel that many on the team have fallen into the “HR-or-nothing” batting philosophy — I would prefer that most of them focus on getting hits. And I know it’s apples-to-oranges, but don’t forget that in each of the ’75, ’76 and ’90 Reds teams, only 2-3 players on each roster had as many as 20 HRs — Bench, Perez & Foster in ’75; Foster & Morgan in ’76; and Davis & Sabo in ’90.
Probably too little, too late. The finale against the twins and saturday’s loss were probably the opera singer warming up the voicebox. Too many injuries/covid stuff down the stretch, regardless of the deadline decisions.
Still would not be surprised if this team can put together a ‘lucky’ week and sneak into final WC. Probably not enough pitching to reasonably compete once in though and that would be on the FO.
No matter how it turns out, still thankful for a fun summer of reds baseball and enjoyed watching/following this team over the year. Future is bright but FO can’t stand pat, it time to start pushing in some chips to improve the team long-term.
I hope that a roster spot and some $ be found for one more year of JV, but if this is the end, I will have enjoyed seeing one of the best hitters in red’s history, easily top-ten, definitely on their Mt Rushmore.
good post. i agree it has been a refreshing summer. i loved the style of play and the hustle and heart this team showed this year. I describe the future though as unknown rather than bright right now. call me pessimistic but we really don’t know what we have with these rookies. i guess years of being a reds fan have taught me that young reds players usually either get injured or fade away because the league “figures them out”. especially the last couple of decades. besides Votto we just have not been able to develop really good position players. i hope this changes but I AM HOLDING OUT JUDGEMENT FOR NOW
EDLC started playing SS in the minors. Over 4 seasons in the minors he logged 1,379 innings at SS. Over 3 minor league seasons he logged 565 innings at 3B. His fielding % at SS was 27 points higher than SS in the minors. In MLB, he’s been much better at 3B, but small sample size alert with 259 innings spent at third.
(this should’ve been posted behind the MBS and Amarillo posts above)
WC chances life support but not dead (8-15%). Positive is that no team in the race has over 82 wins including the Dbacks. 85 wins is the key number. Good news is we own the tiebreak with the Cubs and Dbacks. Big game today for Dbacks vs Yankees. Everyone else is off. We will need to sin out or at worst go 4-1 and hope that everyone else loses most of their games. Gotta a really bad feeling that epic 13-12 Pirates loss will cost us in the end…
The Reds needed 2 of the 3 from Wednesday through Saturday. If they would have gotten all three they would be in fat city. One of them and they would be urgent care instead of ICU with a super critical condition rating.
After losing Wednesday and Friday, a competent manager with an 8 run lead and needing 12 outs to finish a game simply cannot let what happened Saturday transpire without having pulled all the stops before the lead was lost.
That was a defacto elimination game which was managed like a mid season yawner until after the damage was done. It reminded me of Dusty’s meltdown in the 7th and 8th innings of Game 6 of the 2002 World Series in which his Giants blew a 5-0 lead and lost 6-5 to force a game 7 they also lost.
+10000
Yep. That was a BIG game. Starters should have been considered if they were available. HAD to win.
In a word, unforgivable.
First game of the week going good Yankees lead the Diamondbacks 6-4 entering the top of the 9th. Hope is a good thing but Saturday night still haunts.
Yankapups beat skin the Snakes on Monday. The Snakes’ ceiling is now 86 wins, one more than the Reds who own the tiebreaker over them.
Oops. sorry and all that. The Snakes ceiling is 88. Whacked math brain or fat fingers or wishful thinking (or all 3) 😉
The Reds elimination number for the Cubs and Diamondbacks is 4 and for the Marlins it is 5. With 6 to go for all those teams and 5 for the Reds the chances look very slim, especially when you consider they have to finish ahead of 2 of those 3 teams. The upsetting part for me is the loss last Wednesday to the twins, leading by 2 runs going into the top of the 8th and the Saturday loss to the Pirates winning 9 to 0. Oh well, these young guys have learned a lot this year and will hopefully be even better next year.
The numbers are brutal; but, keep the following in mind. The Reds would win a playoff spot in any tie for the 2nd or 3rd WC spot except a 2 way tie with Marlins for the 3rd spot. This is because the Reds have the tiebreaker on both the DBacks and the Cubs which effectively would be worth a game in standings against those teams if the Reds win to their ceiling of 85 and the Cubs and/or Dbacks also finish at 85W.