Welcome to the final weekday matinee of the 2023 season at GABP. The Reds need to win the current series finale against the Twins today after dropping last night’s middle game of the set 7-0. ‘Nuf said about that. Today is a new day and another chance to jump right back into the middle of the National League Wild Card chase.
Starting Lineups
| SP: Bailey Ober | SP: Hunter Greene |
| 1. Edouard Julien (DH) 2. Jorge Polanco (2B) 3. Donovan Solano (1B) 4. Max Kepler (RF) 5. Willi Castro (3B) 6. Kyle Farmer (SS) 7. Andrew Stevenson (LF) 8. Christian Vazquez (C) 9. Michael A. Taylor (CF) |
1. Jonathan India (2B) 2. TJ Friedl (CF) 3. Spencer Steer (LF) 4. Jake Fraley (DH) 5. Christian Encarnacion-Strand (3B) 6. Joey Votto (1B) 7. Noelvi Marte (SS) 8. Will Benson (RF) 9. Luke Maile (C) |
Fraley pretty obviously is power limited currently because of his toe injury; but, he does appear to be better than the alternatives. At least he walked twice and had a single last night as opposed to multiple K’s.
Starting Pitchers
| Pitcher | IP | ERA | WHIP | BB% | K% |
| Hunter Greene (R) | 97.0 | 4.45 | 1.40 | 30.1% | 10.5% |
| Bailey Ober (R) | 127.2 | 3.67 | 1.13 | 5.0% | 24.4% |
| Links: Hunter Greene’s Stats | Bailey Ober’s Stats |
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Hunter Greene
Hunter Greene makes his sixth start since returning to the Reds rotation on August 20. Greene’s last 3 starts have all been strong efforts from which the Reds emerged victorious after he pitched into the 6th inning of each game. He has allowed a grand total of just 3 earned runs across 17 innings of work in these 3 starts The Reds desperately need this level of performance from Greene today.
On the season, Greene has severe reverse splits. Right handed batters have hit him both harder and more frequently. However in his 3 most recent starts he has held the opposition to a BA/OBP/SLG% line of .136/.227/237.
The pitching charts still depict Greene as strictly a 3 pitch pitcher despite the the visual record indicating he is using different mixes of movement and velocity on his pitches than had been observed prior to his most recent IL stay.
Splits
| Split | PA | H | 2B | 3B | HR | BB | K | AVG | OBP | SLG |
| RHH | 226 | 57 | 19 | 2 | 10 | 19 | 59 | .278 | .345 | .537 |
| LHH | 203 | 34 | 9 | 2 | 5 | 26 | 70 | .197 | .310 | .358 |
Pitch Usage
| 4-Seam | Slider | Change | |
| Velo | 98.3 | 87.5 | 91.3 |
| Usage | 45.9% | 20.3% | 7.2% |
Bailey Ober
28 year old right hander Bailey Ober was drafted by the Twins in the 12th round of the 2017 June draft (#346 overall) and has spent his entire career in the Minnesota organization. Ober made his MLB debut in May of 2021 and has been used exclusively as a starter in 54 prior MLB appearances, 20 in 2021 followed by just 11 in 2022 when he was troubled by a groin injury much of the season. This is Ober’s 24th MLB start of the 2023 today but just his second start since returning to the Twins after being optioned to AAA in late August.
Like Hunter Greene, Ober has a significant reverse slugging split due to having allowed 15 HR to right handed hitters. However his batting average and OBP against splits are virtually handedness neutral.
Ober leads with his fastball (46%) and uses his both his slider and change up around 20% of the time each. He is not a power pitcher as his fastball averages only 91.3MPH. Nonetheless he sports nearly a 25% K rate and walks a miniscule 5% of batters he faces. Reds hitters will need to be patient and not chase his breaking pitches and change up if they hope to succeed against him.
Splits
| Split | PA | H | 2B | 3B | HR | BB | K | AVG | OBP | SLG |
| RHH | 248 | 59 | 11 | 0 | 15 | 10 | 71 | .252 | .290 | .492 |
| LHH | 269 | 59 | 13 | 1 | 5 | 16 | 55 | .237 | .290 | .357 |
Pitch Usage
| 4-Seam | Slider | Curve | Change | |
| Velo | 91.3 | 81.8 | 77.6 | 83.6 |
| Usage | 45.9% | 20.3% | 7.2% | 19.8% |
Bullpens
Reds
The Reds late inning A team of Alexis Diaz, Ian Gibaut, and Lucas Sims has yet to see action in this series. Alex Young and Derek Law have worked consecutive games. They are probably unavailable. Fernando Cruz and Daniel Duarte threw 25 and 29 pitches respectively on Tuesday. They are doubtful given the short turnaround.
Twins
No one for the Twins has worked consecutive nights. Their top backend relievers also have not seen action in the series. However Dallas Keuchel threw 58 pitches in long relief Monday and figures to be out.
News and Notes
The Reds AAA and AA teams are still playing read the latest about them here on our Reds Minor Leagues companion site.
David Bell speaks about Elly De La Cruz’s situation
David Bell on Elly De La Cruz: “It was another opportunity to really get Elly back on track giving him today and tomorrow’s off day. Two full days. He’s doing well. He has handled a lot. He’s handling everything. I do see signs of fatigue, which is very normal. Getting him those…
— Charlie Goldsmith (@CharlieG__) September 20, 2023
Here is the full truncated final sentence above from Bell, “Getting him (EDLC) those two days off is really important even with the importance of today’s game.”
When and Where
- Game time: 12:35pm ET
- Where: Great American Ball Park
- Watch: Bally Sports Ohio, MLB.tv (out of market)
- Listen: 700 WLW AM (Cincinnati area)
- Forecast: 75°, some clouds, 0% chance of rain
Wild Card Standings
| Team | W | L | GB | Playoff Odds |
| Philadelphia | 82 | 69 | +3.0 | 98.6% |
| Arizona | 80 | 72 | +0.5 | 65.5% |
| Chicago | 79 | 72 | —— | 52.3% |
| Miami | 79 | 73 | 0.5 | 52.2% |
| Cincinnati | 79 | 74 | 1.0 | 26.0% |
| San Francisco | 76 | 75 | 3.0 | 5.2% |
| Playoff Odds via Fangraphs | Top 3 Make Playoffs | ||||
So, What Do You Think???
Might it behoove the Reds to find a way to win today’s game despite come what may in the days ahead? If they do not win it, will come what may even matter? Negative points for saying the Reds have done better than expected in 2023. Triple negative points for use of the word sorting or speculating about 2024 personnel, lineups etc.
GO REDS!
Elly needed to sit. Seems like he needs to use a lighter bat or cut down on his swing. Every swing seems long, like he’s trying to hit a home run.
Lineup looks juicy. No problems with it. Let’s let Hunter give us 7+ with a bunch of offense to back him up
He doesn’t need a lighter bat. His bat speed is faster than everyone in the game outside of like 4 players.
Doug, so would you say it was Elly’s approach then? More mental than physical?
I don’t have a clue what it is. It could be mental in the sense that he’s purposefully taking pitches to try and work and extend counts. Maybe it’s physical in the sense that he simply can’t identify pitches quickly enough at this level to make the best swing decisions. Maybe it’s mental in the sense that he’s pressing and it’s causing worse swing/non-swing decisions.
Maybe it’s a bit of all of them. Maybe it’s something else. It could be a million things.
I don’t think it’s something that will be a long term (re: career) issue.
I agree he just needs a wider bat!
It is so easy to get into a hitting funk. That is baseball. Sometimes the ball looks like a pea coming in, you struggle to pick it up, you struggle to pick up spin, and struggle to make good contact. Sometimes it looks like a volleyball coming in there and you can’t miss it. And you just can’t explain it. That is why hitters on hot streaks usually mention in interviews that they are seeing the ball well.
That all being said, Elly’s issue appears to be more approach, and thus, mental, in my opinion. This is quite the extended slump. He is watching third strikes across the heart of the plate. He is struggling to make contact. The league seems to have figured out how to pitch him. He is struggling to adjust. But what do you expect from a 21 year old?
Also, in my opinion, which won’t be popular, he is eating some humble pie…for he who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbled himself will be exalted.
Elly will eventually become a great player but at the moment is dragging this team down and we can’t afford that.
Larkin thinks that his swing has gotten longer and that he’s swinging harder and that that is the problem.
Larkin says so many things without any deep meaning.
His answer to just about every good hit is “he let the ball travel”
Should thank the Twins for not starting their best healthy player in Royce Lewis. They also don’t have Buxton and Correa in their lineup. If we don’t win today then we probably don’t deserve to make the playoffs anyways.
Royce not healthy. Twinged a hammy yesterday. Too soon to determine if an IL stint is on the table for Lewis
Lewis was injured while swinging at a pitch in the 8th inning last night. He is day to day.
Correra has been put on the 10 day IL after he felt a “pop” in his foot while chasing a pop fly on Monday. The Twins believe it is a plantar fascia issue; and, he should be back for the post season. But we Reds followers know all about how plantar fascia can be.
Elly needs to sit for most of the remaining regular season. It’s not just his offense, he’s become a head case in the field defensively. He’s still a very young kid but we’re trying to win a playoff spot and I’m sure next year will be better for him as he matures, but now is not the time to keep playing him.
Once again I disagree with Stephenson sitting today… he crushed that ball to CF yesterday that should have been a home run and he hit the ball really hard into the double play at 3rd base. There’s only nine games left…you have to put your best players on the field for the home stretch run EVERY GAME. I don’t care if it’s a day game after a night game….for crying out loud they’re off tomorrow. When I look at Stephenson sitting out today the way he’s been swinging the bat the last 3 weeks I question whether David Bell really understands the urgency of the situation. I also wouldn’t mind seeing Martini DH for Fraley since Fraley’s obviously falling off lately and is still feeling the effects of his injury and Martini has added a lot of juice to the lineup when he’s been in there.
Yes. Stephenson is one of the few who hit the ball hard yesterday. David Bell???? smh
Catchers don’t catch games in a row.
Certainly you know that right?
Doug, I totally agree with you about Elly’s problems not being a career issue. How can someone start off his career so hot and then go into a funk? Fatigue, pressing too hard? Who knows? Would he or the Reds want him playing winter ball at all to figure things out? Maybe Barrero also?
I went through the moderation queue this morning and more than a few of the regular users here had stuff in there because of cursing. Including two people who have already submitted comments on this article. This is your warning to stop it. I will start banning people from commenting over it.
If you couldn’t say it freely in 2nd grade, you can’t say it here.
It’s just ridiculous that people still think they can “sneak stuff through” when you’ve clearly outlined the rules multiple times.
+1,500,000 to you (spread it to the team as necessary) for keeping this forum going and providing a place for our passion, thoughts, opinions, and even sometimes facts to be heard. We’ll never all agree on a wide variety of fronts. But we’re all aligned that we want our Reds to be successful and that we consider ourselves true fans.
I appreciate that you keep things clean on here Doug. Thank you
The Reds really need to win today. They really need to win today to have a chance of a winning home record. Plus, they are 1-2 games behind the other contenders in the loss column. It’s now or never. There’s no time for “next time”.
Brian G. did a pre-game piece with Maile (like the one from Fraley a couple months ago). Great stuff. Love to see that side of players.
As for HDTBell’s comments about Elly … I know he’s not going to publicly bash him, but the quotes from Charlie really are puzzling. A basic eye test says he is NOT doing well. Sure, we don’t know why. All we see is the struggle. Perhaps a couple days off does help him find a little focus and some September magic.
Twinkie Kicking Time!!
Not going to dwell on last night’s game which, IMO, was one of the worst games this 2023 Reds team has played.
Last time I checked, there are 27 outs per team in a nine (9) inning game! Since the Reds batters had 14 strikeouts last night, that’s more than 50% of the outs! Yikes!
Plus, the Reds pitchers last night issued a total of eight (8) walks! Hard to win a game with those stats AND when you can’t score a single run!
Hoping for better results today! Let’s score some runs in support of HG!
There is a whole article dedicated to last night’s game.
Beautiful day at GABP. Paying my respects to employee #19 just in case this is it.
Give him my regards.
In regards to Elly issues above, I think the biggest thing for him is mechanical, and a fairly easy fix. I have talked to a lot of hitting instructors across several levels of baseball and all of them agree on what I am seeing. From both sides of the plate, he drifts forward towards the pitcher before he swings. This moves your head forward which “increases” the speed of the pitch in your mind and also makes it harder to pick up the spin on pitches. He was so talented in the minors he could overcome this challenge and when he first came up to the bigs he was still guessing correctly more often than not. I think if he can get a firm front leg and stop drifting he will take right back off.
I think it is EASIER to fix and will be addressed in the offseason. Results will be evident come 2024.
Really appreciate this insight Larkin! That makes perfect sense in how you explained it. I’m more familiar with golf but the fundementals are similar in some ways.
One of my main reasons for reading the comments are to learn to understand and appreciate the game more. Good stuff!
We need this one more than they do. These are basically playoff games now. Let’s go Reds!
You are correct! Every one of the remaining nine (9) games should be treated as a playoff game! Hope the team is up for the challenge!
Had a dream before HG’s last start on Friday 9/15 that he was going to throw a no-hitter! Greene actually went thru the first 4 innings against the Mets without surrendering a hit!
Don’t need a no-hitter today but a shutout would be nice!
I’ll simply take a win coupled with some losses for the Snakes and Stupid Cubs.
I think it will be a pitcher’s duel today. Playing small ball early would be prudent. Hunter has been locked in lately. Let him carry us. Gotta believe! Go Reds!
2 quick, efficient innings for Greene. Kind of like how he started out the last time. 6-7 solid innings would be very welcome. Still need to back him.
Sound off for now … meetings are calling 😛
i hope I’m wrong, but I hope the reds aren’t gonna go thru one of those scoring droughts, currently 12 innings….these 1st two innings look like yesterday
Twins know what’s up. It may take only a few runs to win this one. Small ball may not be statistically advised through 162, but in pressure games it matters a lot because momentum matters in games like this.
Big K by Greene!
Thankful Twins gave us a free out.
It worked out for the Reds but I get that they were willing to give up an out for a run there. The bunter just didn’t execute a good bunt or the guy scores and they still have one out and another runner in scoring position.
Kuddos to Greene for getting two Ks.
I think with Greene’s ability to strike people out, you need as many opportunities to put the ball into play as you can get. If it was Ashcraft who is more of a contact pitcher it might be different.
With a young team, pressure is not a great thing. Thus, a win today is critical. EDLC needs a fresh start. Agree with the swing analysis above. Keeping things steady in the vision field is essential. Give him some time to settle down. Go Reds
Ober’s fastball isn’t that fast. The Reds can catch up to it and spoil it to stay into PAs.
So, early in the count, somebody needs to sit on the change/ slider and sell out on those floaters he is sending in.
CES says im on it
Cmon Friedl
Flex o zone is in full effect from the home plate. Terrible strike 2 call on Friedl.
Great job of Friedl to overcome and come through with a RBI. We have this pitcher on the ropes, lets knock him out in the 3rd!
Some nice professional at bats strung together by Benson, India, and Friedl..Nets the good guys a 1-0 lead
Steer just missed that but India and Freidl heads up running.
Larkin may be in the HOF but is baseball IQ is puzzling at times.
I’m with Larkin. Questionable decision by India. Good throw has him easily, but desparate times call for separate measures.
Desperate
The Twins aren’t desperate, the Reds are. Questionable tag up by India but foolish throw put 2 men in scoring position. How many PERFECT throws are executed. Reds have been burned numerous times by the same dumb throw. Larkin said the throw was warranted. Sorry Barry Baseball 101
And it turned out to be a big play that the Twinks held India at 2B on the Friedl single.
Fraley late on his cuts.
And whiffs again.
Fraley is not the same hitter that had an .840 OPS in late July.
We should have pounded Ober that inning with that pitch count & no over powering stuff.
To jump on the back of LarkinPhillips post above.
I think it might benefit Elly to go with a toe tap.
His big leg kick is not helping his timing and winds up off balance. He always appears to be front foot lunging at pitches.
He’ll figure it out…hopefully hit the ground running next year.
To me, Spencer Steer has the best looking swing by Reds hitters.
That is a good way to keep your weight back. Elly will figure it out, I think he just has put a lot of pressure on himself and is really facing adversity for the first time. Bad thing for him is that it’s in the middle of a late season playoff push.
Yes. Nice blanced frame & approach.
Any McLain news?
Sure need him if healthy.
Last I heard he took BP and plan is activate him next tuesday for the final 5 games
Thank you OS for the info! Appreciate it.
I am a CES guy! He needs to hit every day these next 9. Marte as well.
Cleanup guy there!
Please don’t bench CES anymore.
Agree.
I squint my eyes checking out daily lineups.
He caught that one nicely. Thigh-high breaker on a tee 😀
His eyes lite up there.
Swinging bunt!!
Sadak says, “It dies a lonely death” … yes, I’m forced to listen to that feed today.
Yeah, me too.
MLB tv blacked out the game here in Chattanooga area due to the Braves noon game.
I think a full season Matt and ECS are both 25+ home run guys. Think of India, Friedl, McClain, Steer , CES and Marte to start a ballgame. Throw in Benson and EDLC. I don’t care who’s pitching. Let you best hitters play.
Yeah, sweet lineup. Speed, power, athletism, youth, and 2023 a year of seasoning. And a young staff with experience.
Greene’s having a good day. 13 pitches/inning and 9 SOs/1 BB. If he can start pitching like this with regularity, that’ll be a game changer for the Reds next year. Here’s hoping.
This is what I think we all envisioned when he was drafted. An impact pitcher who can dominate in big games. He gets what, three more starts the rest of the year?
IDK but I think Ober should receive more runs by the Reds, just 2 runs is short… Hopefully Greene and the bullpen hold the Twins the rest of the game
Fraley is coming up short. Lot of guys stranded. When he’s not hot & in a groove, do not bat him in the the 4th spot.
CES cleanup guy makeup.
More importantly than strikeouts, no runs, sub 80 pitches thru 6.
I love watching Greene when’s he’s at his best like today.
Best game of Hunter’s career?
In a word, yes.
He had a game last year 7IP 1HP 0BB 8K. So it’s at least 2nd best of his career.
Considering the circumstances, I’ll still vote for this one — provided he surrenders no more runs.
Well, before that Homer at least…
And to add to that, a pressure day.
Glad that was a solo shot.
Stay the course Hunter.
Lets play some add on! This game feels like we should be ahead way more than one run, which makes me very nervous.
It sure would be nice for the offense to pile on some runs here. Give the high-leverage relievers some more rest.
Who was the last Red to have 14K? It had to be Homer Bailey or Johnny Cueto, right?
Thought that was gone.
Well done Will!
Big hit.
Luke failed at that the last time.
He’s not good at that. Don’t offer at that one.
Give away wasted out.
This is one of the worst challenges I have seen. What a waste of a challenge.
I stand absolutely corrected and will take my crow with BBQ sauce please.
I think they lose this challenge. If he bunts at it, it doesn’t matter if it hits his hand. It only matters if he’s trying to pull it back or get out of the way.
Since Maile was squared around, that would be the same as swinging at a pitch that hits you, right?
Apparently not!
I was wrong as well.
I think you were correct Tom. He “swung” at a ball which hit and that makes it a dead ball strike.
Alternately if it hit the bat then hit him (in the batter’s box) then it is a foul ball no differently than any other batted ball that hits the batter in the box and subsequently goes into fair territory.
That’s what I thought, too.
I like Barry Larkin – dude has no business as broadcaster ….offers zero substance
Larkin is obviously my favorite player with my name and all. But he is awful as an announcer and I sure hope doesn’t get hired as a manager either.
Barry would better served as a retired all time Reds great retired HOF. Or, whatever Buddy Bell did.
I’m with you on that LarkinPhillips ….I
enjoy listening to Cowboy the best. Dude knows what he’s talking about and his pitching information and explanations are great ! He runs circles around Sadak and Larkin as announcers ….not even close
Wow
Big run.
I’m eating crow under glass!
Great hit Maile. Lets keep adding on!
Can anyone explain to me what just happened because the reds radio broadcasters are refusing to do so for some reason
Really poor and frustrating coverage of this – had to sit here and listen to cowboy and sadak jabbwr on with no explanation of the ruling or a single mention of benson as a runner at third during a squeeze bunt attemp
Was sitting there yelling at my radio “and what about benson!?” the whole time
That apparantely was a safety squeeze attempt, not a suicide bunt.
So Maile went for a bunt attempt and the ball hit his hand. Therefore it’s a swinging hit by pitch which is ruled a dead ball strike. (Rather than a groundout)
The final ruling was that the ball hit Maile as he was trying to bunt it i.e. technically he “swung” at it. By rules that made it a dead ball strike regardless of where the ball ended up going.
Thank you, Jim, for usual in-depth coverage!
Thank you
Did benson even break to the plate? Was he sent back due to the dead ball? Zero coverage of that was given
@DHud>> They didn’t show a picture but the closed caption I use to follow along indicated he broke but pulled up and went back when he saw the ball was popped up.
I have no idea if Benson’s “break” was a secondary lead on safety squeeze or if it was a suicide squeeze he was able to avert when he saw the ball in the air.
With Friedl flying out for the second out, that challenge officially resulted in a run. Without the challenge, Maile would have been out at first, India’s strikeout would have been the second out, and Friedl’s out would have been the third out with no run scoring without it.
Is Hunter coming back out for the 8th?
Fraley doesn’t have a 2 strike swing. It’s not in his DNA. Served him well when he’s hit, but when he’s not……
Hot. Hate auto correct.
That’s as good as I’ve seen Hunter Greene pitch all year…maybe ever. He was at 91 pitches…. I don’t know why he’s not pitching the 8th inning.
Diaz … every single time …. Brutal
Please get GIBAUT out now
So we pull Greene at 92 pitches for this?
Cans of corn being thrown right now. Lucky Gibraltar got a 1 out pop up and it’s not a 4-3 game right now
Yea he’s throwing the ball down the
middle of the plate ….. bout to destroy all the good work Green did
So I see Bell is starting to “manage”. Why not give Greene a shot at the 8th. If he gets in trouble, pull him. And it’s a one run game, you don’t pull CES for Senzel. If you want Senzel at 3rd, pull Votto and move CES over. How this guy got a 3-year extension totally escapes me. Nepotism.
That’s for sure how it should have played out. Bell knows things tho.
Bell is playing with fire
Holding my breath here. This is a lot of faith given to Ian.
This loss is on Bell. Why in the world would you pull Greene when the way he is throwing the ball today is spectacular, still has Great stuff and good pitch count. It just cracks me up when some managers act like guys can’t pitch 110 or 115 pitches when you’re at the end of the year and they’re throwing the ball this well…it is ridiculous
One reason is that you hope you have the need for Greene to make three more starts in spots like this. Rely on the bullpen which has been kicking butt. It may not work, but that would probably be the rationale.
But Greene has been sidelined alot, and the importance of this game is weighted. Best path to Diaz.
Oh I understand the rationale. I believe Bell was just flat out wrong in this instance today. Greene was exceptional today and looked like he had plenty more in the tank. He very easily could have finished this game by himself. If you’re not going to let Hunter go out for the 8th the way he was throwing it today, then when exactly are you EVER going to let him go out past 90 pitches in a similar situation? And Bell relying on Diaz over what HG was actually doing today on the mound TODAY….apparently hasn’t been paying attention to Diaz since the allstar break.
I think he should have stayed in too.
But Bell went to get him last game Vs. the Mets and left him in and Alonso hit a 3 run homer. I thought it was the right call to leave him in to face Alonso too.
But this is the result.
Bell thought he should remove him last game and it backfired.
I thought so as well vs Alonso.
Greene did look content in the dugout vs being upset.
I thought that situation was totally different because his stuff wasn’t what it is today when watching that game…plus he was facing the best home run hitter in the National League so I thought that was the right time for Sims to come in. Again, I just don’t trust Bell when it comes to his pulling starters at the right time, he has shown many times it’s not a strength. I think he’s a little better once it turns into a bullpen game at making those pitching changes then.
That 3rd run looming large for our Queen City Redlegs. Escaped the 8th still in the lead. Really need to add a run or two here to nail it down. Then to Diaz.
Great performance from HG today.
Yep. HG been good of late. Offense is not clicking though.
Got to score here. Votto needs to be pesky Votto, not power Votto here. Move Senzel over at any cost.
There are times that even after all the years, it seems like Votto doesn’t get it in some situations he has job one to get done and that is more important than trusting his eye and judgment over the ump’s on a close 2 strike pitch.
Watched the same pitch twice for strikes.
Agreed
It has always been that way throughout his career. He has an obsession with taking walks, much more than actually winning games.
Duran throws 103. Glad I’m not in the batters box
Shut them down and win the series
Come on Diaz. Have your nasty A game stuff. For my blood pressure sake no drama:)
Drama starts.
Diaz… dude NEVER HAS A CLEAN INNING
And just like that, Bell snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. He has to be the most situationally clueless manager in baseball.
With tomorrow off I would have been tempted to send Diaz on to defend the 3 run lead in the 8th inning
Seriously? None of this on the players, particularly the closer?
Diaz was not his best clearly. But Maile’s error was big. Bell should have pulled Votto for Senzel and left CES in. Once Bell starts “managing” all bets are off. Greene should have opened the 8th, not Gibaut. Players didn’t execute but Bell created the conditions to fail.
It’s amazing how much he lacks a real feel for the game when making in-game decisions when he is watching what’s going on in the field with his own eyes. He just doesn’t have good instincts most of the time…instead he usually goes with his preconceived ideas regardless of what’s actually happening in the game. And that is the end of the season….well done Mr Bell
Nothing comes easy.
Gibaut run was big.
I don’t think it’s Bell’s fault our ALL STAR closer wets his pants again.
I wished we had the May version of Diaz.
He hasn’t been anywhere close to a strong closer since the freaking All-Star break 2 months ago. It’s been painfully obvious to everyone on this website, so why doesn’t the manager of the freaking team who has been watching it from the dugout for 2 months know it too???
I’ll bet you in his heart of hearts right now David Bell is sitting in that Dugout watching this thing go down the drain knowing that he should have left Green in the game. He knows he blew it.
This will be so deflating if we lose this important game.
Got a bad feeling
.
We had a guy on 2b with no outs in the 9th. Offense needs to execute as well.
Look at the bright side, Elly is getting these two days off. “It’s really important even with the importance of today’s game.”
We never came through with a big hit and have fallen apart the last two innings. Absolutely terrible for such a critical game in the season. Greene really deserved better for such a performance today.
Yep and had he been able to stay in to finish this thing at 91 pitches throwing the best he may have ever thrown for the Reds he probably would have won the game…but we will never know
Ouch ouch ouch
I’m Cleted
Tough to lose after Greene’s great start. Dang.
Don’t deserve to get in playoffs …. Losing at home all year long …. Pure choked this game away … cam stick a fork in these dudes they’re done
Pretty much agree. Would love for them to reach playoffs, but are the Reds really deserving? Nah. Probably not. Just get in and anything can happen. And it’s true. But this team isn’t earning their playoff ticket. If they get in it’ll be only a pure battle of attrition with other undeserving teams. Lots of fun this year. Lots of progress. Lots to look forward to. Too many duds laid in crunch time. Lots of adversity as well, with injuries.
Ugly
Instead of the rested bullpen, we get the “bad bullpen” guys today. Kind of looks like we’re cooked now. Clock/calendar is VERY short at this point. I still view this one as a “must win” and if we don’t, that’s another step closer to looking toward 2024 instead of October.
So did I.
I’m now officially focused on watching the young guys AB’s for adjustments for 2024. And, their defense.
Ugh, hate to waste such a great outing by Greene.
Thanks Diaz …. Awesome job
Yes me too. I would have like to have seen him start the 8th inning.
Why take Greene out after 90 pitches. That Bell decision cost us this game!
Greene is becoming the dominant pitcher he was forecast to be. Just unfortunate that he was removed, especially as dominant as he was and after the BP was lit up yesterday. I’ll always long for the good old days of complete games, or close to it, until I don’t have any days left
Get Ty Steve in now.
3 more years of David Bell and his gut decisions
Literally makes me sick knowing he’s going to waste the next three years with all this Talent making all of his boneheaded decisions on a daily basis
Me too. Gut punch. Barry playing him up now.
Game set match and season. Reds have some work to do in the offseason but have a decent core to work around. I like Votto but will be very happy to not see him in a Reds uniform next year. You can pick up trash heap players on the cheap that are better than he has been the last few years.
Season not over yet, but this isn’t helping. Reds have to reel off a few wins now. You just can’t win scoring 3 runs or less Nearly every game. Be interesting to see how the youngsters react going forward.
All these bloop hits and seeing eye singles shows the importance of just putting the ball in play. Strikeouts are killers
Unbelievable how this game turned into a loss… All started when Greene suddenly surrendered a homer amid 4 strikeouts being the more dominating part of his outing. After that, many soft contacts by Twins hitter came to a runs…
This bull pen has been nails. Taking Greene out at 92 pitches was not a bad decision. This one is on the players.
I know it’s easy to blame Bell and I would have gone with Greene another inning… BUT… if Senzel gets to 3b on time on Farmer’s steal he is out, reducing one run. If Votto moves Senzel over rather than looking at strike three in the 9th, another run likely scores. That’s a two run swing. Players have to do their jobs.
Players have to be held accountable when they don’t do their jobs. That has clearly not been the case the entire tenure of Bell. That is where my issue always is with Bell. We have different players for the most part than the 2021 collapse, but it is very similar in how the second half has played out both years.
That’s a fair point.
If you’re going to blame it on the players have to do their job you’re basically saying manager decisions don’t matter to the outcomes of games and that is ridiculous. Of course any sports in any situation comes down to the players performing or not, but better managers increase the chances of success while bad ones increase the chances of their team’s losing based on their decisions. HG very easily could have pitched a complete game today with the way he was throwing it TODAY at 110-115 pitches with the season on the line. The bottom line is his decision to pull Greene factored in to them losing this game.
I agree completely. With HG’s great performance and the playoff on the line, I’m sure Hunter Greene wanted to finish the job with a complete game! Imo, David Bell is not the type of manager needed to go all out to win the prize.
AWFUL Loss!
Heartbreaker.
You have to win games that your ace pitches this late in a race especially with a decimated starting staff.
Terrible loss. Eight games remain, all against sub-.500 teams. It’s up to the players to perform now.
Big choke
Stink. Fish. POT!!!!!!!
Now I need Thursday off 😮
Losing home record for the season. If the Reds are serious about competing in the future, they fire Bell today. Won’t happen but is what it’s going to take.
Yep losing record at home is pitiful … Reds
can’t count on other teams to handle their
business …. Letting this one slip away is
brutal
Turn out the lights……
And thats a wrap. They were behind on the loss column coming into this series.
I’m at work, but saw on my phone that they started the 9th with yet another infield hit to 2nd. Is India just not charging the ball? He needs to go
And what kind of throw to first base was that?
Blown gem by Greene doesn’t bode well
I was a beautifully pitched game by Greene.
It’s not the lose , it’s the way of losing… This game likely means the end of playoff chances, hopefully it won’t…
Soul Crusher. I don’t know how they bounce back from this with a handful of games left and seemingly everyone else rising to the occasion. Need a lot of help.
That was absolutely brutal.
Is Diaz just overworked at this point, or is there concern he might not be closer material? I had to “watch” the game on the computer.
Alex Diaz may be overworked, but that doesn’t explain why he didn’t even glance over to first base, when the tying run reached first base in the 9th inning. That was just lazy baseball.
And on to 2024 with David Bell…yuck
Worst case in my mind for the season was that we did just good enough to get Bell an extension but not good enough to make the playoffs. Looks like that is coming true and I am still in shock of how early the extension came and for 3 years. 2 years at the end of this season could have been explained (I still disagree with that).
What a gut punch that loss was…much of the weight of that loss rests on the shoulders of Bell.
Bell has his faults but losing that game is not on him.
“Might it behoove the Reds to find a way to win today’s game despite come what may in the days ahead? If they do not win it, will come what may even matter? Negative points for saying the Reds have done better than expected in 2023. Triple negative points for use of the word sorting or speculating about 2024 personnel, lineups etc.”
I share your sentiment.
I see the Pirate pitching staff has allowed 14 and 7 the last 2 games. That can’t be good for their strength or confidence with another game today and this late in the season. The Reds should be seeing meatballs all weekend. Of course, that doesn’t mean they are going to score 30 runs. Could translate to 2 runs per game and a lot of the usual frustration. I don’t understand why the tired players on other teams are mashing tired pitchers and we go meekly. That sounds more like an inability, incapable thing to me rather than a youth thing. Maybe the Cubs will bash the Pirate pitchers with another 10 today and they really come in here on fumes. Can’t be a lot of fun when you are just trying to finish the season.