Home runs ruled the day in New York. The Reds got a 2-run homer from Spencer Steer to grab a 3-0 lead, but Pete Alsono his a 3-run homer in the same inning to tie the game up. The next inning it was Jonathan India’s turn and he crushed a go-ahead homer that put Cincinnati ahead for good in a 5-3 win over the Mets.

Final R H E
Cincinnati Reds (77-72)
5 8 0
New York Mets (68-79)
3 5 2
W: Sims (6-3) L: Hartwig (4-2) SV: Diaz (37)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

Neither team got much going in the 1st, but Cincinnati got back-to-back singles from Hunter Renfroe and Tyler Stephenson in the 2nd to set themselves up nicely…. except that didn’t happen. A force out let to runners on the corners and then Noelvi Marte was picked off of first base before a strikeout ended the inning.

Rafael Ortega would walk to lead off the bottom of the 3rd inning, giving the Mets their first baserunner of the day. He would easily steal second base without a throw, but Hunter Greene worked around the runners with a strikeout and a fly out.

Cincinnati got a little bit of help in the top of the 5th. After Noelvi Marte led off with a single he was able to move up to third on an error that led to runners on the corners. He then scored on a wild pitch to give the Reds a 1-0 lead. In the top of the 6th they added on when Nick Senzel led off with a single and scored when Spencer Steer crushed his 22nd homer of the year to extend things to 3-0.

Hunter Greene had given up one hit in the game entering the 6th inning. He gave up a 1-out single and then a 2-out single that put runners on the corners. Manager David Bell headed out to the mound with Pete Alonso due up, but his stay was short and Greene remained in the game. Three pitchers to Alonso later the game was tied up as he hit a 425-foot 3-run homer. Bell returned to the mound after that to bring in Lucas Sims, who got a ground out to end the inning.

Jonathan India didn’t let the Mets feel comfortable for long. After Luke Maile was hit by a pitch to begin the inning, India took a 2-2 pitch and crushed it into the seats in left-center to put Cincinnati back in front with a 5-3 lead.

New York wasn’t about to roll over. Sims returned for the bottom of the 7th but he walked the first two batters he faced before the Reds turned things over to Ian Gibaut. Five pitchers later and Gibaut induced a double play and a ground out to end the inning and keep Cincinnati up by two.

When the bottom of the 8th inning began it was Gibaut back on the mound for the Reds. He walked Brandon Nimmo to begin the inning before striking out Francisco Lindor. DJ Stewart then followed with a single to put runners on first and second for Pete Alonso. Having seen this scenario earlier, David Bell wasted no time calling to the bullpen and he brought in Alexis Diaz. The move paid off against Alonso, as Diaz got him to hit a shallow fly ball into center for the second out of the inning. Jeff McNeil would also fly out to center as Cincinnati held onto their 5-3 lead and sent the game to the 9th inning.

Alexis Diaz took the mound for the bottom of the 9th and he began the inning with a strikeout of Ronny Mauricio. He then got Rafael Ortega to ground out to first base for the second out. Another strikeout ended the game as Cincinnati began the series with a victory.

Key Moment of the Game

Jonathan India’s go-ahead 2-run homer in the 7th inning.

Notes worth noting

Spencer Steer’s 22 home runs are the most by a rookie since Joey Votto. Only Frank Robinson is ahead of them both.

Noelvi Marte’s 3-hit night pushed his average up to .306. He was the only Red to have more than one hit in the game.

Alexis Diaz lowered his ERA to 2.10 on the season while picking up his 37th save of the year.

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

Cincinnati Reds vs New York Mets

Saturday September 16th, 7:10pm ET

Andrew Abbott (8-5, 3.64 ERA) vs Tylor Megill (8-7, 5.03 ERA)

100 Responses

  1. Melvin

    Of all the rookies Marte may be the biggest surprise to be doing well THIS year. He’s better than I’ve seen him play.

    • Ted Alfred

      I agree about Marte…. was just thinking the same thing tonight watching the game. Quite a contrast when watching him now a month into his MLB career vs his 1st week where he kind of looked a bit shell shocked defensively and timid at the plate. When I put all the rookies together and rate them in order of likely future stardom based on what we’ve seen to this point in the season I would probably have:

      1.) McClain
      2.) Steer
      3.) CES
      4.) Marte
      5.) Elly

      Who would have ever thought Elly would be bringing up the rear on this list the way he started the first few weeks when he was brought up. I still think Elly is the most talented of the group, but the growing number of lackadaisical or just dumb plays are starting to overshadow the talent. On the flip side he is getting better at taking walks and not having huge numvers of bad K’s.

      • Melvin

        He’s 21. We’ll give him some time…..in CF hopefully. 😉

      • Harry Stoner

        I think I agree with your assessment, but something is starting to tell me to project Marte jumping over CES.

        We might be seeing something very interesting unfold over the next couple weeks.

        I’m not fading on EDLC, just coming to ground on his strengths and weaknesses so far.

        CES, Marte, McLain and Steer have shown far better skills at adapting to MLB pitching.

        Elly seems to still be lost.

        No worries…mercy, the Reds have the time to let De La Cruz develop.

        The mid season hype for the guy was out of control, but maybe expected in a success starved fanbase.

        Great to see GASP filled with people.

        Plenty of time for EDLC to mature as a player.

        Now that Bell has seemed to grown out of his obsession with putting EDLC into the #3, #4, #1 slots maybe we can dial down the hype and our own likely inflated expectations and just watch this fella reach his potential as a player, whatever that might be.

      • Chris

        I’d say the only reason Marte is leap-frogging CES is because Bell won’t play CES. CES is hitting at over a .300 clip since Marte has been a Red. It’s down right criminal what Bell is doing with CES these days. As for Elly, in the end he’s going to be the best of the group. Next year will be a blast watching that kid.

      • mac624

        We shall see how it looks when all their careers are done. Fans love picking small sample sizes, but it’s the body of work that matters most. I suspect that list will be quite inverted when all is said and done. But for 1/2 a season, the list is somewhat accurate, but I’d still rank EDLC higher than 5th. His speed alone has won more games than CES or Marte. CES and Marte each have had one walk off I believe. Steer has been solid most of the season especially with his power numbers and McClain was an on base machine for most of his time up as well. Hard to argue them being 1 and 2 on that list.

      • greenmtred

        Chris: you draw this conclusion without knowing why CES isn’t playing?

    • Rick

      Has made some apparent adjustments like McLain, and Steer has. Elly, we’re still waiting. But, with his ht & length that is a harder task, not to mention his pitch recognizition. But I’m still waiting on that bb iq that all the Reds media raved about.

    • Dennis Westrick

      Sims and Farmer should not see the mound in the remaining 13 regular season games!

      This from a 70 year old Reds fan with a weak heart!

    • Dennis Westrick

      Not entirely correct! You CAN count on Sims to walk multiple batters!

  2. Dennis Westrick

    So, Sims walks 2 Mets batters to start the bottom of the 7th, gets pulled for Gibaut and ends up as the winning pitcher! Go figure!

    Big win after Greene meltdown in the 6th!

    Great job by Diaz, India, etc.!

    Another double-digit strikeout night by the Reds lineup! Definitely room for improvement!

    • AllTheHype

      To be fair, really good start by Greene. One bad pitch to the wrong guy, unfortunate, but he did well. Kept us in the game.

      • Dennis Westrick

        Greene’s mistake was giving up a single on an 0-2 count with 2 outs and Alonso on deck!

      • Harry Stoner

        I agree….one of Greene’s better starts, the tater her served up to Alonso notwithstanding.

        Greene is an outstanding prospect, still. He appears to have learned so much since watching him last year.

        He’s got a ways to go and I don’t think his two-pitch arsenal is going to play long term.

        You can’t get by with that stuff three times with a hitter with Alonso’s stuff. The guy may K a lot but he’s no slouch.

        Greene’s no slouch. I think we’re going to see that off speed pitch nect season.

        Watch out.

    • VaRedsFan

      Greene didn’t melt down.
      Are you forgetting the 17 straight scoreless innings before the homer?
      Did you not see the “hit” prior to the HR go directly under Steer’s glove which should have been the last out of the inning?

      • Earmbrister

        Thank you, VA. Hunter Greene is finishing strong, just like he did last year. The kid is a stud and he’s only going to get better.

      • Doc

        It was Alonso’s 45th HR. Greene is not the only guy who has been burned by him. One could argue that you pitch around Alonzo in that situation, but then the walks haunt crowd would have had the platform.

  3. Indy Red Man

    Col just tied SF in the 8th. SF also has 7 more with LA. I know LA has locked up the #2, but they still don’t want to get worked going into the playoffs. I seriously doubt SF gets more then 3 there.

  4. AllTheHype

    Who we rooting for Cubs or Snakes? Hmmm. I think Snakes in this game?

    • MBS

      I want to take over 2nd place in the wildcard, and avoid the Brewers. Cubs are not looking so strong these days.

  5. RedsMonk65

    “Spencer Steer’s 22 home runs are the most by a rookie since Joey Votto. Only Frank Robinson is ahead of them both.”


    • Optimist

      Go look at Frank’s rookie season. All of baseball is behind Frank – top 10 GOAT list. Steer is very, very good, and looks to remain so – team MVP this season.

      • RedsMonk65

        And only 20 years old! Truly one of the Reds’ greatest of all time — if not THE greatest.

    • TR

      Spencer Steer is not flashy, but he has all the characteristics of a solid ballplayer.

    • TR

      It’s been a long time ago, but the trade of the great Frank Robinson still hurts. The Orioles pitcher, Milt Pappas, never worked out for the Reds.

      • Red Lasso

        Considered one of the worst trades in baseball history….

  6. Dennis Westrick

    Giants tied 1-1 with the Rockies without the benefit of a hit!

    Braves had a meltdown and blew a 6-3 lead, losing to the Fish 9-6! Drat!

    Finally, the Stupid Cubs trail the Snakes 3-0! I say we catch the Cubs for the 2nd Wild Card spot and let them play the Brewers!

    • Ted Alfred

      Talk about a tough finish, the Cubs schedule the last 6 games is brutal…3 at Atl, then 3 at Milwaukee…yikes.

      • David

        Poor, poor Cubs. 😉

        The schedule, for everybody, eventually evens out. The Reds have had some tough stretches, and now may get to roll out the rest of the season with only a few “tough” games. The Twins, two against Cleveland, but then again, they have played lousy against the Cardinals, and finish the season with them.

  7. RedsGettingBetter

    Hey! someone missed EDLC tonight?
    Reds got the job done winning this game despite the frustating moment in the 6th where Greene surrendered the game-tying homer.
    On Saturday will be be another tough game against this underperforming hazzard team of NY, go for the series win!!

  8. Mark A Verticchio

    Giants lose in the 9th. Looks like 11/2 behind Cubs, tied with Snakes, 1/2 game up on Marlins. 1 game up on Giants. It is now a 5 team race for 2 spots. Wow September baseball is the best when your team is fighting for a playoff spot. Reds just need to take it one game at a time.

  9. Tim

    Saw that Rockies vs Giants score and immediately heard “Eye of the Tiger” in my head. Rockies,Rockies, Rockies.

  10. Tim

    Cards had bases loaded down by one against the Phils with 2 outs and Nootbar wat he’d three straight sinkers and struck out. Was hoping the Phils would lose but not to sad that the Cards fans are having to endure this type of frustration.

  11. Tim

    Stupid Cubs get three homers in the ninth and trail 6 to 4 with one out. Your killin me Smalls

    • Jim Walker

      Cubs lose, Cubs lose, Cubs lose! 😉

  12. Rick

    Marte’s a dude. Gonna be a good one to hang on to.
    Send him to the AFL and add 2b to his versatility. Looks like a 2b guy production wise, build, and likely better defense there than 3b. MM at SS.

  13. Rick

    Tulane Green Wave’s Ian Gibault potentially saved our bacon in a hold tonight. Big part of our win tonight, along with Diaz. And the hitter & defenders, Steer, India, Marte( hitting & defense), Bader on that 9th inning catch.

  14. Ted Alfred

    CES sitting all the time lately while Renfro and Bader play so much seems strange….hard to believe something isn’t wrong with him. But when I watch him he appears fine and usually these things leak out. I don’t get it, like Chris said he was hitting the ball well over the last few weeks. Is it possible he did something to get in Bell’s doghouse? I noticed Elly sitting today which was overdue, hopefully he sits a couple more to maybe change his perspective a little as to his lack of focus and its possible effect on the outcome of important games. I would really like to see CES getting this September playoff chase experience…maybe tomorrow.

    • David

      Bader and Renfro, despite being waiver pickups, are likely getting paid more than CES. And Castellini and front office probably told Bell to play them.
      EDLC has not really hit left handers so good, so even though Wentz started for the Mets last night and is pretty lousy, Marte got the start at SS, and did a pretty good job.

  15. West Larry

    CES must have some nagging soreness- like being hit in the hand as someone suggested earlier .I felt then, and I feel now, that Alonso should have been pitched around with the tying run at the plate. He’s in the home run derby every year for a reason. If he walks, then you have a reliever ready if Greene’s lost it.

  16. Reddawg2012

    Lucas Sims was going to be the death of me last night man. Throw the ball over the plate. Like, place the ball on a freaking tee for them before you put the tying runs on base without even making them swing the bat. Thankfully Gibaut stepped up. This bullpen as a whole is the reason the Reds are still in the race, but the walks are just so frustrating. I’ve come to expect at least one BB an inning.

    On the bright side, Greene looked very encouraging, Spencer was Spencer, and hopefully India is heating up. Alexis Diaz might be the team MVP. What would the Reds record be without him?

    I would not be upset if I never saw Hunter Renfroe take another at bat in a Reds uniform.

    • Jim Walker

      +1000 Especially on Sims and walks. As a leverage reliever, his otherworldly breaking stuff is virtually useless if he cannot consistently spot a fastball for quality strikes.

  17. Tim

    New favorite movie: The Hunt for Reds October

    • mac624

      When the Reds won the World Series in 1990, that was the title of the cover of Sports Illustrated for October. The Hunt for Red October, which came out as a movie in 1990. I still have that magazine somewhere.

      • Jer-B

        I remember that sports illustrated. That would be a good one to frame. Good memories!

  18. ChrisInVenice

    Two observations:
    1) I think people underestimate how important India is to this team. He’s the heart & soul of the clubhouse and even when he was scuffling in May & June, he had a lot of big knocks.

    2) Marte reminds me of Arenado. He’s similar in size, if not a little bigger at the same age and is so smooth in the field. He seems to be getting more comfortable at the plate.

    Regardless how these last two weeks play out, we’ve been blessed with a fun season & im excited for the future. And David Bell has done one hell of a job with the cards he’s been dealt this year injury-wise all while managing an extremely inexperienced team.

    Oh, and Krall has enough very talented young pitchers & has somehow kept a string of guys cycling through to keep the staff from imploding. I shudder to think what those injuries & Covid illnesses look like in past years.

  19. JB

    With India the Reds are 61-49. 12 games over .500. Without India the Reds are 16-23. 7 games under.500 .

    • Reddawg2012

      It really doesn’t make sense, because for a large portion of that 61-49 stretch, India was terrible. But the W/L numbers don’t lie.

      • J

        The W/L numbers don’t necessarily lie, but they also don’t necessarily mean anything. The phrase “correlation doesn’t prove causation” certainly applies here. Consider, for example:

        1) The Reds won most of the games Weaver started.

        2) India played 103 games last year. I won’t bother checking the record, but I bet the Reds’ record was pretty bad in those games.

        3) In 2023, the Reds have a better record on the road than at home. Do they get good leadership from India on the road, but not at home?

        4) The Reds are 8-4 since Bader and Renfroe joined the team. Maybe they’ve been providing a lot of important veteran leadership in that stretch, but I think it’s probably more coincidental than anything else.

        I’m not saying India doesn’t contribute in some tangible and intangible ways (obviously his home run was a key hit yesterday), but when you’re dealing with small sample sizes like 40 games without him, you can’t assume his absence was the reason they lost most of those games. You’ve got to look at who the Reds were playing in those 40 games, who was pitching those games, how well they were pitching, who was slumping at that time, who else might have been injured (or not yet playing in the majors) during that stretch, etc. There are a lot of factors that can determine a team’s record in a 40 game stretch, including random luck. The Reds started last year by going 3-22, and Barrero wasn’t on the team at that time. Since that time, they’ve never had a 25 game stretch nearly that bad when Barrero was with the team. What should we make of that fact? Absolutely nothing. It was just a weird 25 game stretch that had nothing to do with Barrero.

      • greenmtred

        I like India and what evidence we have indicates that his teammates feel that he’s important. That said, I agree with J’s analysis. As an aside, India was in the dugout for most of the games he missed, so to believe that his presence in the lineup is the cause of the Reds’ success, you’d have to correlate it to his on-field performance, or so I believe. The Reds’ slump is well explained by the injuries to most of the starting pitchers and the rookie hitters returning to earth.

  20. Jim t

    @ChirisinVenice, couldn’t agree more. My wife and I have been down to many games this year and watch every night on TV. Krall has assembled a very good young team. Lots of interest in the team. Chat sites are full of comments daily.

  21. Klugo

    I like Martes approach. He looks like an above avg hitter and OBP guy. Let’s see if the slugging comes down the road.

    • Jim Walker

      The various scouting reports I’ve seen on Marte all indicate he is a keeper hitter. Also, they all say his frame is going to fill out too much for him to be a long term SS and project him as ultimately a 3B or corner OF.

      • Jim Walker

        And having Tejay Antone to pitch in front of or behind Gibaut would have made things considerably easier I think.

      • Jim Walker

        Oops, the Antone comment did not go where I intended it to,

      • greenmtred

        It’s okay, Jim. Good comment and very germane to the discussion of this game.

  22. Jim Walker

    The Reds used only 9 position players in the game despite the Mets following a LH starter with multiple RH relievers.

    The man who said nothing was going to change with the Reds is making changes right under everyone’s noses. Hallelujah.

    • Jim Walker

      And he brought back all 3 Reds relievers to start an inning after they were inserted the previous inning, two of them after getting more than 1 out in the inning they entered.

      My druthers would have been that he got Sims in a batter sooner (to face Alonso in the 6th) and gotten him out after the BB to lead off the 7th. But all is well that ends well.

      • Jim Walker

        And having Tejay Antone to pitch in front of or behind Gibaut would have made things considerably easier I think.

    • Roger Garrett

      Yeah in Thursday’s game he used 4 consecutive pinch hitters in the 8th and combined with what you said and it was true then will the real Bell stand up.Some say he makes a difference,some say he doesn’t, some say he uses data and gut and has no feel for the game and some say talent makes a bad decision look good and the lack of talent makes good decisions bad and some say he over manages and some say he falls asleep in games.Winning is winning and he got credit and a new deal and for me all I care about is this team winning.I am sure I will criticize his batting order today and who plays and who doesn’t because its easy to do.

    • greenmtred

      It was never clear to me what he was referring to in that comment, but it could have been that he meant that they would continue to play hard rather then that the batting order was set in stone, right?

  23. Laredo Slider

    Bell gambled with his lineup and won last night. Now, get CES/EDLC back in the game tonight. Don’t over think this DB.

    • Jim Walker

      The Mets have listed another LH starter for Saturday.

      Thus, CES is relatively easy to get into the lineup. Presuming they don’t double dip with Maile behind the plate, CES goes for him at DH or 1B with Steer at the other spot and TS catching.

      But who sits for EDLC??? Senzel has been hot on offense and playing a solid 3B. They seem to have soured on Senzel in the OF; so, it seems unlikely they would move him to RF to replace Renfroe. This leaves me uncertain how they juggle the positions to get EDLC back in vs LH pitching unless somebody is hurting a bit.

      • Harry Stoner

        The casual way Bell blew off CES during ST and the long slow wait for him to be called up did make me wonder if there is some bad blood there.

        Impossible to speculate, but not to imagine.

        Badger and Renfro aren’t contributing much and with McLain out and EDLC sinking fast, CES’s bat is needed.

        Would like to see him and Marte back to back in the lineup.

        CES is going to turn into an rbi machine. He and Marty might well outshine DeLaCruz in the long run.

        But Ella puts fans in the seats.

        I don’t think the Reds can afford to deal off the hitting that they are just starting to rebuild.

      • Jim Walker

        @Harry>>> I caught a blurb of Bell’s postgame one of the days in Detroit. He was waxing that right now the Reds have more players who “deserve” to start than places to start them all.

        I don’t understand Renfroe playing as much as he does. If they were willing to move Senzel off 3B to RF that would open a spot for CES (or whomever) It seems, agree or not, they place a high premium on Bader in CF over Friedl.

      • LT

        It seems we’ve facing lots of southpaws of late. Are opposing teams just throwing left handers at Bell to see how funny Bell’s line up can be? It can get comical.

      • Harry Stoner

        RLN auto-correct makes my post look like I was talking about Marty Robbins, Ella Fitzgerald and Celia Cruz.

        Bader might cover more ground in CF and give Bell a rationale for playing him.

        Friedl seems to have refound his bat, though, and I’d like to see the Reds focused on scoring more.

        Fewer Ks is a pipe dream with this team and manager.

        Renfro starting, I don’t get at all, unless as you say, the Senzel OF experiment is over.

        So what happens when Fairchild comes back? I don’t share the RLN fascination with him, but would prefer him in RF over Renfro.

        RLN kept auto-filling “Badger” and “Renata” for the Reds’ waiver pickups.

      • Laredo Slider

        Senzel was 0 for 5 last night then was gifted and infield “hit” on an obvious error by the SS. Even at 1 for 5 and not a ball out of the infield…that hardly clarifies as “hot.” To sit EDLC in favor of Senzel is laughable.

      • greenmtred

        Laughable? Compare Senzel’s stats to Elly’s against lefties. You can make a case that Elly should be playing anyway, but he isn’t hitting and the Reds are fighting to make the playoffs, so sitting him for somebody who is hitting over .300 against left handers isn’t laughable.

      • West Larry

        ? Megill is listed as the mets starter, He is also listed as a right hander.

      • Jim Walker

        @West Larry>> Senzel has a .917 OPS in 24PAs in September including last night, that’s pretty hot to me.

      • greenmtred

        Fine with me if you talk about them, Harry. But can any of them hit the slider?

      • Harry Stoner

        Certainly have seen CES go with a slider or two to the opposite field for hits and even a memorable HR.

        Will that do, or would you like some more examples?

      • greenmtred

        Harry, I was wondering about Celia Cruz and Ella and Marty.

    • Jim Walker

      @WEST Larry,

      Just checked and you are correct that a RHP. Tylor Megill is now listed as the Mets starter for tonight on MLB(.)com. Must have been a change or prior “misprint” or misunderstanding on my part. Thanks.

      Looks like we will see the Reds LH hitters instead.

      • Jim Walker

        Oops threads crossed up again. This comment was meant to be addressed to Laredo Slider above.

  24. Steven Ross

    What I saw from Marte, while the Reds were playing the D-backs in AZ, convinced me he might one of the best of the bunch. He made some stellar plays plus had a hit in all three games. Not surprised he’s having even more success now.

    • MBS

      I hope you’re right, because I already really think McLain, and Steer are nails. EDLC, and CES have the talent, but they might need a bit more time to mature at the MLB level.

      • Chris

        What is it that CES is giving you questions about? Is it because he never seems to be playing now? The fact is, since Marte has been here, CES has hit at a .300 clip, and he has much more power. CES seems to be overlooked because the manager is overlooking him.

      • MBS

        I didn’t say anything bad about CES, he’s not produced as well as Steer or McLain. Him and EDLC will both be very good players.

  25. Tar Heel Red

    There is an old adage in baseball…”talent gets you to the show, but it doesn’t neccesarily keep you there.” EDLC will come to this realization at some point in the future and make the adjustments needed. Right now we all just have to live with the growing pains.

    • Chris

      Not that he should, but if it’s a choice in the cleanup spot between Elly and Renfroe, I’ll take Elly, and that’s regardless of what hand the pitcher is using to pitch. Renfroe is just HORRIBLE.

  26. Mark A Verticchio

    Not a Bell fan, but I thought he made some good moves last night. 1. Keeping Greene in although it didn’t work, poor pitch selection 2. Pulling Gibaut when he did. and 3. Keeping Bader in the game for defense.

    • J

      I think people probably know I’m also not a Bell fan, and I also didn’t have a problem with leaving Greene in.

      Not so sure about the Bader thing (I think Friedl could have made exactly the same play, and if the Reds had scored a couple more runs the defensive play wouldn’t even have mattered), but at least there was some logic to it.

      Also didn’t particularly have a problem with the use of Gibaut, but thought Moll would have been a better choice for the 8th if he were available. I assume Bell didn’t believe he was available. If that’s the case, then no problems with how he handled the situation.

      As someone who often gets accused of complaining about Bell no matter what he does or doesn’t do, I wish people would notice comments like yours and mine. When he does things that are fine — even if they don’t work out — I say nothing or say it was fine (sometimes I say even nicer things than “fine”), and the results of the play or of the game don’t determine my response. I think that’s true of almost all the “Bell haters.”

      • Chris

        We agree on this, that’s for sure. AS for Bader though, there is NEVER a reason for him to be playing, nor staying in the game. AS you mentioned, Friedl could have easily handled CF.

  27. ChrisInVenice

    Woe is me.

    By the way, if you don’t see that India somehow elevates the play of this team, then I don’t know what to tell you.

    The Weaver & India examples are apples & oranges and any superficial statistical analysis you can likely provide is pointless.

    • J

      If you’re talking to me, did you fail to notice the part where I said “I’m not saying India doesn’t contribute in some tangible and intangible ways”? My beef was with the idea that you can use the Reds’ records with and without him on the roster to prove what kind of impact he has. That’s a bad way to analyze a player’s impact.

      When I was in grad school, I wrote a paper that used multivariate regression analysis to determine which baseball stats seemed to be most (and least) relevant in determining baseball salaries at that time. I got an A on the paper (from a professor who was both a professional statistician and a baseball fan), and I think I may have had the top score in the course overall. But please do continue your lecture. I’m entertained.

      • Chris

        Yet you continue to ignore simple statistical analysis by not understanding sample data chosen is everything when it comes to statistical analysis. For example, not looking to mash on a 2 and 1 count, potentially forcing a player into a less of a hitters count.

      • J

        We were discussing 2-0 counts, not 2-1 counts, and you seem to not understand that walks are good.

        Yesterday I saw Renfroe, with nobody out and nobody on base, hit a 2-0 pitch straight to the shortstop for the first out. You must have been delighted to see him aggressively trying to get a hit, but the stats say he has a better chance of reaching base by taking that pitch even if it’s a strike. His job there was to try to reach base, not to hit it hard at the shortstop.

      • ChrisInVenice

        I never brought up win/loss record.

  28. Jeremiah

    Marte looks like potentially the best pure hitter of the young guys so I think he’s a keeper. They desperately like any team need hitters that aren’t striking out all the time and hitting for good average and obp.

    I think McClain maybe doesn’t have a high a ceiling as the others. He may never hit much better than this year which is pretty good. He’s definitely a keeper u think

    CES maybe I think would be a trade chip but he could be a Pete Alonso type if hitter. Good problems for the Reds to have all this talent.

    • Chris

      Pete Alonso? Why do you say that. CES has hit for average AND power at every stop. While everyone is drooling over Marte, CES has quietly hit over .300 since Marte has been up, and he has power. CES will be better than Alonso in my opinion.

  29. Mark A Verticchio

    No Steer or Marte, Bell is a lost duck.