Cincinnati trailed early on, but battled back to tie the game and then take a lead. The Tigers fought back and tied things up in the 5th inning before both bullpens shut things down until extra-innings. The Reds first hit since that 5th inning came off of the bat of Tyler Stephenson in the 10th, driving in what turned out to be the inning run as the Reds picked up a win in the opening game of their 3-game series in Detroit.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cincinnati Reds (75-71) |
6 | 9 | 0 |
| Detroit Tigers (66-78) |
5 | 9 | 2 |
| W: Diaz (9-4) L: Lange (6-4) SV: Farmer (3) | |||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
Detroit wasted little time taking a lead. Andy Ibanez homered with one out in the bottom of the 1st inning. Four straight singles then followed as the Tigers tagged on two more runs to take a 3-0 lead. Brandon Williamson was able to get out of the inning from there.
In the top of the 2nd inning the Reds offense got to work, but also got a little help to start things off as Tyler Stephenson got on to leadoff the inning thanks to a throwing error. Elly De La Cruz would walk with one out and move up to third on a TJ Friedl RBI single. Jonathan India then drove both De La Cruz and Friedl in with a single into left to tie the game up at 3-3.
The Tigers were threatening again in the bottom of the inning after a 1-out double by Matt Vierling was followed up by a walk to put two runners on. But three pitches later Spencer Torkelson grounded into an inning-ending double play.
Cincinnati’s 3rd inning saw the first two batters make outs, but Joey Votto got a 2-out rally started with a walk and Elly De La Cruz followed up with a single. That set things up for Harrison Bader, who blooped a double into shallow right center that wound up scoring both Votto and De La Cruz and gave the Reds a 5-3 lead. Back-to-back walks followed to load the bases, but new reliever Beau Brieske struck out Nick Senzel to end the inning.
Matt Vierling led off the bottom of the 5th inning with a walk and as the old saying goes…. it haunted. Viewling would come around to score when Andy Ibanez doubled to make it 5-4. That was the final hitter that Brandon Williamson would see as the Reds turned to the bullpen to bring in Fernando Cruz. He’d retire the first two batters he’d see, but a 2-out hit by Kerry Carpenter tied the game up.
The Reds offense went in order in the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th innings. Fortunately for them their bullpen kept the Tigers off of the board as well, leading to Alexis Diaz entering the game for the bottom of the 9th inning. After striking out Javier Baez to start the inning, Diaz hit Parker Meadows with a pitch and then he stole second base to put the winning run in scoring position. Matt Vierling would pop up to second, keeping Meadows at second base. A ground out would end the inning and send the game into extras.
Cincinnati pinch ran Noelvi Marte for Nick Martini as the free runner to begin the inning on second base. Tyler Stephenson led off the inning with a single into right field and Marte raced around to score the go-ahead run. Joey Votto then followed up by reaching base on a fielding error that moved Stephenson over to second base. Elly De La Cruz hit a chopper to second, and the throw went to first base to get one out, but the throw down to second seemed to show on replay that Votto got to the bag before he was tagged. David Bell had a prolonged discussion with the home plate umpire before heading back to the dugout. Jake Fraley then struck out to end the inning.
Buck Farmer entered the game to begin the 10th, Noelvi Marte took over at third base, TJ Friedl moved from left to center, and Spencer Steer slid from third to left. Andy Ibanez started at second base as the Tigers free runner and he moved up to third base when Spencer Torkelson flew out to center to begin the inning. Detroit called on Akil Baddoo to pinch hit and the Reds brought the infield in, and it worked to perfection for Cincinnati as Baddoo hit a grounder to Jonathan India who came up firing home where Tyler Stephenson made the catch and was waiting to make the tag at the plate for the second out of the inning. Akil Baddoo reached first on the play and he stole second base, but he’d be stranded there as Farmer struck out Kerry Carpenter to end the game and seal the Reds 6-5 win.
Key Moment of the Game
Jonathan India’s throw to the plate in the bottom of the 10th to cut down what would have been the tying run.
Notes worth noting
The Reds bullpen threw 6.0 innings and allowed just two hits and hit one batter. They didn’t walk anyone and struck out seven batters.
Arizona, Miami, and Philadelphia have all lost games today. That moved the Reds ahead of Miami by a half-game. They are now one game behind Arizona for the final spot – tied with San Francisco, who is currently still playing.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Cincinnati Reds vs Detroit Tigers
Wednesday September 13th, 6:40pm ET
Connor Phillips (0-0, 9.64 ERA) vs Eduardo Rodriguez (11-7, 3.18 ERA)
Yay Reds!! They continue to hang in there like a loose tooth.
Now that I thought about it, I get Bell’s strategy with Farmer in the 10th. He wanted to go with the guy most likely to walk the leadoff batter to set up the force with the runner already on 2nd. Didn’t work out that way, but Bell is so smart.
Gotta love it when folks complain about something that works out.
Right? Remember a few short years ago when the last manager “saved” his best arms for later in the game, only to have his lesser arms blow it first?
Bullpen management has been Bell’s biggest strength, imo.
Are you actually faulting Bell for bringing in Diaz in the 9th? That is the way most any manager would use their closer as the visiting team in a tied game in the 9th.
For those who thought Petty would be a candidate for the bigs next year – he was moved to the development list for the Lookouts. So he is done at 68 innings this year. No way he pitches for the Reds next year – unless it is some strange injury situation. He will probably get no more than 100 innings next year
Lyon Richardson has pitched 82 and made 4 starts for the Reds. Petty’s not going to impact the Reds too much next year, but he could made some starts.
Just to be clear – the development list is not a “season ender”. It could be, but simply being put on the list does not mean you can’t be removed from it.
Very grateful we’ve been blessed with this wild ride of a season.
Very unexpected and very fun …. especially for us old folks (66). I honestly thought the Reds playoff hopes would be over by June 1st. So happy to have been so wrong!
Would love nothing more than for the bats to wake up some to finish the season and give us a good run. Elly needs to get going for that to happen. Time is now.
Hit and a walk last night, so there’s a start.
Red Lasso, I didn’t have playoff hopes on opening day. Like you I am enjoying this season. Very much!!’
If someone told me in April that we would still be in the playoff race I would have had them committed. Hope they make it
Big win. I’m out of town, but followed the game on my phone. I felt like they’d find a way. They’re more confident on the road so we are too.
Big win! Meaningful baseball in September is awesome. BP was very good and glad to have India back on the field.
Crunch time. It would be nice to convince our guys to start hitting early and often to maybe get some “easy” games from this “easy” schedule. 🙂
Easy games? We have not seen those in over 2 months. Not likely but would be nice.
This is a huge win because the game 2 shows as Detroit starter the lefty Ed Rodríguez who is their ace. The Reds should keep fighting trying to win this series, at least, but if they sweep it’s much better…Hopefully Connor Phillips could respond positive to the challenge…Go Reds!
Yeah, don’t like the Tuesday match-up…..on paper.
Hey, young’ens, welcome to playoff baseball whether or not it is officially postseason.
As Doug recounted this was a huge night for the Reds.
Let’s hope it is just the first of many.
Plenty of many! Lol
I was thinking the same thing. This is playoff baseball, and the Reds are in it !
I wished that Bell would leave India leading off regardless of a lefty or right-handed starter. Hit Jake 4th against righties.
Abit more energy with India back in there and specially leading off. Might just be me and just me feeling energetic because we’ve needed his bat.
I hope Connor pitches well with length right out of the gate.
Got to leave India at leadoff and keep playing Stephenson EVERYDAY hitting 5th until he cools off. Benson is also hitting it hard right now.
I’m with ya on India, Rick. Just what the doctor ordered for this group of rookies. Any word on McClain? That would definitely be a huge boost.
Sadak stated in the broadcast that McLain is scheduled to take live batting practice on September 18th, so there appears to be hope that they can get him back perhaps as early as late next week.
I’m with the India leading off plan as well. It seems to be his most productive spot in the lineup. I was one who thought he’d be better in the middle of the order driving in runs since he was one of our best bats. I guess he changes his approach, or feels more pressure, I’m not sure but it just didn’t work out.
India brings the intangibles to this team. If he had not got hurt we would have won more a few more games by now
It is really obvious the team’s energy and India’s Comfort level both increas dramatically with him at leadoff. You would have to be absolutely brain-dead and blind to not see it so, hopefully the Reds manager isn’t either of those things…we’ll see
India has been the 7th best hitter and 6th best on-base % this year (of the starters). Bell would have to be “absolutely brain-dead and blind” to have kept him hitting lead off all year.
I have no problem with him hitting leadoff right now. Let’s see if he can get hot while others are struggling. I also don’t care if he’s down in the 7 or 8 hole.
The Reds like to do things the hard way but at least they won. As I said earlier, I’d really like to see them score in the 1st and just pile on for a good laugher.
Score early & tomorrow. And, Phillips confounds the Tigers hitters tomorrow.
Early & Often
75 wins and counting.
Superb BP work, good decisions by Bell
Still in playoff race.
The lineup that no one understood put 6 runs and a W on the board.
“No one understood”?
Didn’t seem so odd to me.
More hindsight from Mr. Know-It-All after the game is over.
Folks have been pining to move India back to leadoff and move EDLC down in the order.
That was done.
Someone beefed about EDLC hitting behind JV but that’s all I read.
Renfroe over CES at DH?
How did that work out?
The lineup didn’t score any runs across 7 innings.
Reds beat a weak team. That’s the way it’s supposed to work.
Read the pre game comments on the lineup.
The lineup nobody understood scored 1 run in the final 7 innings, and only because of a gift leadoff runner on second. The lineup nobody understood scored 5 runs thanks to some bloopers and errors. They scored a grand total of 2 earned runs in 10 innings. Bell’s bad decisions made it harder than it had to be.
But you’re right about three things: it was great work by the bullpen, they did win the game, and they’re still in the playoff picture.
Sorry, I meant they scored 1 run in the final 8 innings — thanks to the gifted runner at second.
I think you may have misread the final score.
I didn’t have a huge issue with the starting lineup. My issue was more about Bell refusing to pinch hit for the right-handed bats early in the game. If you are going to go by the book and essentially platoon, then why wouldn’t you let your top left-handed hitters have a go at their middle bullpen guys. Could have blown this game open early, instead it’s a nail-biter in extra innings.
I believe Senzel hit unsuccessfully with the bases loaded when a hot Benson could have instead.
Bell generally won’t pinch hit or pinch run early in a game. He doesn’t think runs are as valuable in the third or fourth inning as they are in the seventh or eighth. It was a little more understandable when he only had three non-catchers on the bench, but now I have no idea what kind of rationale there can possibly be.
Or perhaps he doesn’t want to use up his entire bench early in the game.
Using a pinch hitter or two would not use up his entire bench. That was exactly the point I just made. He had five non-catchers on the bench. He used to make do with three.
Is hyperbole a sin? Not the whole bench, but critical parts of it. The available bench in any game is not large, and deploying guys early can result in having a bad match up at a critical point later when there’s little time to take or extend a lead, a situation that would undoubtedly lead to considerable condemnation here. Either strategy can certainly be defended, and either could succeed or fail in a game.
Not only did he knot ph Benson with the bases loaded instead of having Senzel hit who has been horrendous vs RHP….with a chance to blow the game open, vut asenzel got dinger earlier so you could have very easuly put Benson in RF and moved Syeer to 3rd, which would have been a huge Improvement defensively in a very big Outfield why in the world you wouldn’t have taken advantage of that then it’s just mind-bogglingly dumb. Then I think he ended up ph Benson two or three innings later and putting him in RF and Steer at 3rd. No manager loves to pinch hit early in the game, but sometimes you have to reassess the actual situation and realize there’s times it makes sense…. and that was one of those times that was screaming for using Benson to ph in that spot for a lot of reasons. I just think sometimes Bell misses things cuz I just don’t think he’s all that sharp to be honest with you
The problem with that approach is that you’re not using pinch hitters in situations where you KNOW you have a good opportunity to use them because you’re saving them for some hypothetical situation that might never occur. And that’s because you’re imagining things that happen in the late innings are “critical” but things that happen in the fourth inning aren’t critical. It’s just faulty logic. A run in the 4th inning counts as much as a run in the 9th. If the Reds had scored a run in the 4th inning, they win the game in regulation unless the Tigers also come up with an extra run somehow. If they’d scored 10 runs, they win in regulation and don’t even need to use any of their best relief pitchers. This idea that you have to wait until late in the game to maximize your chances of scoring runs is just wrong. When a pinch hitter would potentially be of great help and you have multiple guys on the bench, use the pinch hitter. Don’t worry about what inning it is, and don’t save him for a situation that may never exist.
(I was responding to greenmtred if that wasn’t clear….)
I understand that argument, J. The other strategy is probably based on precious time–late in the game when it’s running out you may easily need your best available. The Reds lead baseball in come from behind wins and are among the leaders in one run wins, so late innings have been crucial for them. Maybe they wouldn’t need to come from behind if they used their best pinch hitters early? Maybe. Certainly sometimes. But sometimes it would backfire. There’s also match-ups, and not just a batter’s L/R splits, but more detailed information they have on opposing pitchers tendencies and how they might play out against particular hitters. The Reds have this stuff; Jim Day did a brief segment about it, so it’s also possible/likely that that is a consideration when deciding when to use a pinch hitter.
Wins like that epitomize the Reds season. The thing is they started winning. And now their style hasn’t changed. Call them the Cardiac Kids if you will, but I’m starting to think this is how they get it done. The Reds just love the late comeback. Whatever magic they have going, they’ve still got at least some of it.
Truly people can’t be happy Reds won.
Who the heck cares, they scored 6 runs. The lineup was odd yes, however they scored 6 runs. Doesn’t matter how or whatever.
They keep winning with a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players. A starting staff of 3 second year starters. Two rookies, and a handful of rookies from triple A. Phillips, Richardson, Stoudt, and Spiers.
The bullpen has saved the reds more times than not. Kudos to the pitching coaches.
Agree, Kevin. Complainers invent new ways to complain. They get off on it ( and they know it).
RS, do you realize you’re inventing a reason to complain? Are you getting off on it?
Who here isn’t happy the Reds won? I believe every single person who comments here is happy the Reds won, including those of us who see room for
Improvement. You seem to be incapable of enjoying a victory unless everyone is responding exactly the way you want them to respond. That must be very difficult for you. I’m able to enjoy the win even though some people say silly things like you just said.
Your enjoyment is palpable, lol.
I enjoy the reds win very much. You should probably look in the mirror before you comment.
Kevin, I’ve checked with the mirror and it says I enjoy every Reds win. You seem to be unable to square that fact with the fact that I can also see mistakes being made and I like to talk about them here. Not everyone has to be exactly like you, and it’s not your job to tell people how to be happy. I’m sorry you can’t seem to grasp that.
It just ceases to amaze me why someone hasn’t snatched J up as a manager yet.
I think you mean “never ceases to amaze me.”
I think he meant that, having considered it, he stopped being amazed. Interesting that opinions can differ.
Cubs lost and SF is down 2 in the 8th. Positive development all around
Three back of the Cubs now. That’s what we should be shooting for. We DO NOT want to play the Brewers in the first round.
At this point Melvin I’ll take any playoff games period.
Better than nothing but I’m always looking to win long term as much as possible. The Brewers this year is the absolute worst team for us to play.
Agree with JB here. With our starting rotation situation, it would be an impressive feat to make the playoffs. If that happens, I truly don’t care who we face.
Melvin, if the Reds somehow play the Brewers in the postseason, they (the Reds) will wipe the floor with them. You read it here.
greenmtred – I’ll hold you to that.
Could we keep the AL teams coming for the remainder of the season? Williamson, not so hot, but the pen was. Nice W.
What a night! Reds win and every wild card team in front of them loses, from the Phillies on down. Wow!!!
Yep, Guardians just took down the Giants in Frisco to complete the sweep to the Reds favor.
Everybody is scuffling to get to the wire.
Just play them one day at a time. Don’t get too excited on nights like tonight or in the dumps when they fall the other way.
These races often go down to the last game. I always remember the 1964 NL pennant race between the Reds, Cards and Phillies. Unfortunately the Cardinals won.
Yes, as a ~15 year old I was sitting in the field boxes down the LF line at Crosley Field on Friday night, Oct. 2, the penultimate game of the season for the Reds. An 8th inning meltdown dealt the Reds a 4-3 loss which in retrospect cost them no worse than a tie for the NL pennant.
The outfield catch earlier in the game (4th inning) which started a triple play against the Reds was within a couple of hundred feet of me. That catch directly saved 2 runs from scoring. My view of the events in the decisive Phillies 4 run 8th inning wasn’t as good because they were to the middle and right field side of the diamond.
I’ll stop there because I’ve written in detail here elsewhere online about my eyes’ view and lasting recollections of the triple play and 8th inning.
Suffice to say, I learned that night that the good guys don’t always win
Fantastic job by bullpen! No walks!!!
+1000
Yes! I think multiple recent off days have really helped.
After this current 9-day stretch, we get three more off days in the last week and a half of the season.
if you are the reds on the road just try to get the game into extra innings. then you know you will likely have a speedster on second base to open up the 10th inning. huge advantage. i don’t like the extra inning rules. i think it gives the advantage to the visiting team. Plus a pitcher could theoretically pitch a perfect game and lose! This should never happen in baseball. but the reds have certainly taken advantage of it.
plus i love comerica park. huge outfield. easy to get hits. hard to get homeruns. wish gabp was more like that. makes for more exciting baseball in my opinion.
Many years ago as a kid with my family, we were at Briggs Stadium, later known as Tiger Stadium, in downtown Detroit for a doubleheader with the Yankees. At Briggs, a section of the upper deck overhung the playing field. It gave the ballpark a certain warmth, similar to the intimacy and warmth of Crosley Field.
Tiger stadium was the one ballpark I wanted to see but never did. But I did go to the old Comiskey many times and loved it.
The Ghost Runner rule is what it is, and everybody has to play by the same rules.
This said, as a hockey follower, I see it as baseball’s version of the abbreviated overtime/ shootout for the tiebreaker. The biggest difference is that in the NHL, the loser whether in OT or shootout gets a consolation point in the standings vs. two points for the winner while in baseball, nada for the loser.
And there certainly are hockey games that leave the impression that both teams backed off near the end of regulation of a tied game and played for the 1 “sure” point awarded for getting past regulation.
Nice win especially considering everyone else we are chasing lost.
Been a fan my whole life . We be 70 in October. Really have enjoyed this season. The coaching staff and players are getting it done. Hope their efforts culminate in a playoff berth.
Also hope Ownership sees they have a team that has a wide window and invest in keeping it open.
Ownership has a golden opportunity to get the fans back on their side. I agree with you Jim and hope they take advantage of it by financially supporting this team.
Let me get this straight. Reds come from behind to win. Every team in the WC lost. Reds fans are scoreboard watching on a weekday night in mid-September and rooting for the brewers to beat the Marlins , the Mets to beat the Dbacks, and the Guardians to beat the Giants. Reds are 1 game out of the final WC position. Cards are in last place and the Mets and PAdres are effectively eliminated at 8-10 games under .500. Just like we all predicted back in March.
Ha! Funny world of baseball! The summer of 2023 has been an exciting one for us Reds fans.
Yup. The two teams that tried to buy championships, Mets and Padres, are out. Good luck with all those big contracts,
Well said my friend!
Jonathan India
.282/.377/.410 as leadoff
For the last 3.5 months Bell thought that wasn’t good enough and moved him to the 3 hole for .210/.294/.407
He showed a different mindset at leadoff. Get on base vs. swinging for the fences.
I thought that India was one of the best bats in the lineup, and he could do more for the team in the 3 hole than the leadoff spot. I’m sure Bell was thinking the same thing. Being moved to the 3 hole is not a demotion. The problem is India didn’t produce in the 3 hole. Too much pressure? I’m not sure, but it’s clear that he should remain in the leadoff spot.
And perhaps his health had more to do with the production decline than his mindset.
That’s a valid point, but at this point in the year, I’d just keep doing what’s working. 24 is a new year, and new plans can be made.
You beat me to it BK. It’s hard to do anything athletic with plantar fasciitis. Maybe, just maybe, Bell was trying to protect a player who was not completely healthy. And of course we don’t know how much India shared with the team.
Just another example of bells very poor management when it comes to the batting order. It was obvious to most of us that India was not as comfortable in the three hole and that it wasn’t going to work but Bell stuck with it for 2 months before he finally came around. Will he leave India at leadoff the rest if this year?
To most of us it would seem like a no-brainer, but to our illustrious leader I would imagine he thinks he’s smarter than everybody and he’ll probably move India out of that spot sometime in the next few games.
– 1,250
+1000
Maybe this team is playing out the season kind of like it does the games. Get down early and wait until the very end to win? Makes a man hope, but starting rotation scares me.
Buckle up!
When I need a break from Sadak (which is often) I flip over to the opposing team broadcast. The Tigers might have the most sleep inducing duo in baseball, but they dropped a couple nuggets that I thought were interesting. 1. The Reds have the most pinch hit home runs in baseball. 2. Their bullpen has 2nd most inherited runners, yet the 2nd fewest inherited runners have scored. To me, it suggests Bell is pushing the right buttons in key moments.
Great at-bat by Tyler Stephenson to win the game. He’s really coming on—.963 OPS in the last month. Baseball reference also says he has the 3rd best range factor in the NL behind the plate. Not a subpar defender by any stretch, but his OPS when catching is .652 (.749 as DH). In a playoff scenario I’d be tempted to DH him and put Maile behind the dish.
I think the OPS difference between catching vs DH is more coincidence or sample size related versus anything meaningful. Also, if we’re facing a righty, we need Fraley in the lineup, and he’s likely to take up that DH spot. Fraley’s bat was sorely missed when he was out.
Boy you said it about their broadcast. The stream I was watching was Tigers, and I wondered if they even cared what was going on.
There were a couple of times when Gibby was slow to answer and I thought he actually did fall asleep.
When I get tired of Sadak, I read a post or two of J’s, then I go back listening to Sadak.
One game out again. Can’t complain at all. I think the key tonight is if Phillips can throw strikes.
Facing another LH pitcher and a good one. I think a couple homerun balls plate some runs. Renfroe, EDLC and Steer are over due.
This was a must win. It’s going to be hard to win one of the next two with Phillips vs Eduardo Rodriguez today and god knows who going for us Thursday. 1-1 would be good IMO.
Wonder if they will go with Cruz on Thursday?
I was thinking a BP day and bring Lively to be the long guy. Either Cruz or Antone. Way better option than someone like Spiers who had no business starting any game at the MLB level IMO.
I thought it was conspicuous that Antone did not pitch Tuesday and wondered if he is queued up for a couple of innings Thursday.
I hope Bell doesn’t start trying to manage 2 or 3 games down the line with his bullpen usage and in the process give a game away before he gets there. In the current situation, a team has to grab every opportunity that presents itself and worry about tomorrow later because there is no guarantee the opportunity tomorrow will be as good as the one today.
@Jim when your starting rotation at best is usually only giving you 5 innings a night managing your pen is a must.
@JimT> But when opportunity knocks in the last 2 weeks of the season, sometimes the best laid plans need to be changed on the fly.
In the situation the Reds are in now, I can put my philosophical differences with Bell aside, i.e. my belief that his platoon scheming is a dead end for a team on the cusp of being as talented as the Reds seem headed to be.
However, I still have concerns that just like Dusty B. was with the Reds, Bell often lacks urgency within a game and is too focused on his plan for tomorrow or the next day. Get it while and when you can and adjust tomorrow’s plan afterwards.
That may be the first time I’ve seen Bell compared to Dusty 🙂
1000%
+ 10000
I’ve compared them before: they both get run down like dogs by the experts commenting here, along with every other Reds’ manager since I started following RLN. Win, lose or draw. Makes no difference.
Bell has his lineups,days off and pen usage set days in advance.Ty Steve was off Sunday after the night game on Saturday.Monday he was off as was everybody else and he played last night and is off tonight probably because of the day game tomorrow.He has been one of our hottest hitters and we face their best pitcher tonight but no sense in asking where is Ty Steve.IMO its all hands on deck right now and the best players must play.Oh yeah Ty Steve knocked in the game winner last night.I have come to expect the unexpected and am no longer surprised at anything our manager may do.Heck let him DH and set Renfroe.
+5,000
“That may be the first time I’ve seen Bell compared to Dusty ?”
They both, at times, lack a sense of urgency in my view.
Bottom line here is that we won. Sure, questions abound regarding situational replacements or non-actions. But we’ve dealt with that for the entire tenure of one HDTBell.
Not a fan of the ulcer-inducing extra innings stuff, but we did score and win and moved just a little closer to October. 16 games left. Win streak started last night … 😀
Fun Fact: We are 58-45 in games where India starts and 17-26 in the rest. India is dragging this team to the playoffs.
@Amarillo, thanks for sharing.
Now someone will point out our record when Weaver starts. 🙂
In all seriousness, this is why I posted yesterday that I don’t trade India this offseason. We will have 10 starters for only 9 positions, but Bell showed this year he can make that work (especially with injuries and days off).
And IF the Reds trade India, I hope it’s to improve the ’24 team and not for prospects.
I strongly agree. 20% of your roster is going to be injured/unavailable at any given time. If we only have 9 players capable of starting a majority of games, that isn’t good enough.
Trading India for pitching doesn’t improve the team, it just moves where the weakness is.
I’m calling up Sonny Gray to see if he’d be willing to come back at priority #1, but if he says no, I’d still prefer spend on a free agent rather than spend prospects. Our payroll has plenty of room for a FA starter.
Agree Amarillo. I think they have to spend on a 3 or 4 year deal for a good starter or good outfield bat. Sonny Gray would be a good place to start.
Love it when people say the Reds are due some luck. They are -36 in run differential. Based on that they should finish 77-85. I would say they have had their fair share of luck.
Yeah, but what’s the differential minus two certain Cubs games? It’s a bit misleading.
Every team has a couple games they’d want to remove from their differential. It would be more misleading to cherry pick out a couple games.
I don’t disagree. But those were pretty extreme.
I’m sure we will have a righty lineup again tonight. I just hope that Bell has the common sense to play CES and Senzel. Senzel has been on fire since being called up from AAA, posting .357/.379/.607. Please stop playing the castoff veterans from the Yankees and Angels.
If Renfroe and Bader aren’t in the lineup tonight who replaces them?
Simple answer. Senzel and CES. Marte will probably be back, and Votto will probably play as well. Renfroe has 4 hits and is batting under .200 as a Red. Bader has 5 hits now that he picked up 2 last night. You don’t pick up two cast offs from subpar .500 teams and insert them in your lineup as a playoff team. Great veteran bench pieces, but not starters.
I would rather see CES for Votto. Senzel was already starting. Bader does help in the large outfield. So it would basically be Marte or Renfroe. Maybe I am the minority but I would rather have the experience of Renfroe.
I just don’t understand the need for experience when the experience is terrible. Renfroe is not good, and he’s not good defensively either. As for Senzel, yes he was starting, but Marte is fine now and will most likely start, and should (especially over Renfroe). No way I start Renfroe over Senzel who is mashing right now. CES has to start, and Votto most likely is going to start whether we like it or not.
Either way it’s a great debate to be able to have.
I do get both sides, why use guys that won’t be in our future?
On the flip side the difference in a rookie/veterans plate approach to me seems a lot different. I hate seeing strikeouts.
I don’t care who plays tonight as long as they have some great at bats.
Bader should not start another game unless there’s a major injury problem. He’s done absolutely nothing at the plate this entire time he’s been with the Reds and season with the Yanks and when he plays he’s replacing guys like Benson and Friedl who are much much better hitters…period.
I mean Bader had 2 hits last night. Plus he’s a better base runner and far better defense.
The eye test tells me that Bader is a superior defender compared to Friedl and Benson. Not knocking Friedl’s coverage but his noodle arm compared to Bader’s strong arm is a big difference defensively. Plus Friedl is hitting about 210 the second half of the season. Others may be able to judge his future hitting better than me but if it is 240 like, we need to move on. His energy and style is terrific but that arm and weak second half counterbalance that. Hopefully an upgrade here is in our 2024 plans.
I’ve never rooted for the Mets, but there’s a first time for everything.
+10K
As a kid, we lived in Northern NJ and were Mets fans. During the playoffs in 1986 the family was together to mourn the loss of my Dad and we all watched and cheered for Ray Knight and the Metros. Now it’s more of a passive “rooting” but to a different end.
I dont have any real strong takes. Im glad Reds are playing meaningful baseball in September. I agree with Jim. Take (1) game at a time and do everything to win that today and tomorrow is tomorrow. I like India back healthy and leading off, I like Elly in the 7 hole. I like Ty Steve getting some big hits. As Roger has said many times….Joey is Joey and hes going to play until he doesnt. Maybe he can find a little Pujols 3 week run and hit some bombs. Good for him he gets to play in a playoff race with the Reds. No one saw that coming. Give Antone credit. Hes the one that said he will be back in time for the playoff run. I dont know how the bullpen has done it, but everyone deserves credit.
Really need a hot streak where they break off 5 wins in a row or an 8-2 streak. Either of those would catapult them into a front runner WC spot. Interested to see how this road trip plays out in the big parks of Detroit and NY. The hitters and offense seem to like it. Conner Phillips getting a big time start for a young arm. Hope he brings it.
Go Reds.
Lineup is out. A little different, a little the same:
J. India 2B
N. Senzel 3B
S. Steer RF
H. Renfroe DH
C. Encarnacion-Strand 1B
H. Bader CF
N. Marte SS
T. Friedl LF
L. Maile C
Marte at SS, interesting.
That’s a lineup for hitting lefties. Two quibbles–
–Wondering if Votto is 100%, because Renfroe’s splits vs. LHP are just ok. Joey much higher.
–.452 OPS for Maile the last month…hitless for the last week (8 ABs). Why not ride the hot hand in TySteve?
Day game after night game so votto and TS were either resting tonight or tomorrow. Same with other rotations with the quick morning turnaround
Today is a night game though.
Tomorrow is the day game with a righty starter. Tonight is a night game with a short turnaround. So sit today or sit tomorrow. Not playing both. I’ll take Votto against a righty tomorrow resting his shoulder a day. His lefty splits this year are short sample size with a couple home runs against bad lefties. ( Cards pitcher the other day and terrible Rockies pitcher his first game of the year with an ERA over 7.) His lefty splits the last 5 years arent good and this is a GOOD lefty.
Joey sets because of the day game tomorrow.
Not bad at all, perhaps Bader too high, but nice place for Benson later on. I really like giving EDLC the night off, maybe Thursday as well. He is looking worn down, a couple days off might help. Plus it gives you a great pinch runner if the need arises. Tonight is a tough match up, a win would be huge.
Leaves 3 solid lefty hammers for the right situation. Martini, Jake, and Benson.
This year, Friedl has hit lefties better than anyone on the active roster other than perhaps Senzel, Steer, and Bader. He has the highest OBP of anyone on the active roster against lefties. In my mind, this is not a guy you want hitting 8th in front of your worst hitter. I would want my highest OBP guy hitting first or second in front of a couple other good hitters. But I’m not a major league manager, so I’m probably just too stupid to understand why this is the best thing to do. Plus, the Reds have already won a lot of games this year and exceeded expectations. So, I’m sure this is fine.
“people are not allowed to be repetitive and overly negative” https://www.redlegnation.com/about/
Rules apparently made to broken. Or, at least, noted in the breach. But they’re having fun, it seems, and the fun is harmless.
“No personal attacks…. In general comment on the Reds, not other commenters. Treat people with respect.”
I’ve been attacked dozens of times for comments I’ve made about the Reds. Been insulted many times and called all kinds of names. But do go on about the rules being violated because I’m complaining about Friedl hitting 8th today.
Feel free to explain why it’s good to have your highest OBP hitting 8th. I’d love to have a good, constructive, and upbeat discussion about that.
“Feel free to explain why it’s good to have your highest OBP hitting 8th.”
Ok.
First of all, as far as batting order, I care about OPS more than OBP. Senzel and Steer are better versus lefties. They’re hitting 2nd and 3rd. McClain also better, but he’s of course on the IL.
Second, FreidI’s stats have been on a slow decline since the allstar break. His overall number are still decent, but he’s no longer hitting well above average like the first half.
Third, I don’t care that much. I care much more about who’s playing. Overall, I want our best hitters hitting towards the top. They are for the most part.
As an aside, I’d stop playing the victim card every other post. No one is buying it. As Doug said, if someone is attacking you, email him. But I’ve not seen anyone attack you.
Ridiculous to post that. J is expressing a valid point, just as you have, but for some reason, you now want to play the teacher’s pet I guess.
wkuchad and j: You both make valid points in your last post’s. WK, you do poke at J in your posts, and J you are a little too sensitive to posters poking you. “bricks and stones…”, but WK you seem to talk down to J.
II think Friedl should be batting fourth, Renfroe sixth and Bader eighth. But, hopefully, it won’t effect the outcome of the game.
Wow! An actual discussion about baseball! Fantastic!
“First of all, as far as batting order, I care about OPS more than OBP.”
That’s perfectly fine, but if you care about OPS, why would you want a guy with an .879 OPS hitting 8th? Don’t you want to make sure he has an at-bat in the first two innings? You wouldn’t really have that guy hitting 8th, would you?
“Second, FreidI’s stats have been on a slow decline since the allstar break.”
Ok, but isn’t it more relevant to look at how he’s been hitting most recently? Last 7 games his OPS is 1.180. Last 15 games, it’s .864. He’s about as locked in right now as he’s been all season. You wouldn’t really put that guy 8th in your lineup, would you?
“Third, I don’t care that much.” Ok, but let’s say someone DOES care that much, because, you know, it’s a Reds blog and some people here might care a lot about the Reds’ lineup. Let’s say someone is convinced these kinds of decisions could end up costing the Reds a few wins this season, which could mean not making the playoffs. What should a person like that do when they see this lineup posted? Just say nothing because it’s too upsetting for some people to read it?
“As an aside, I’d stop playing the victim card every other post. No one is buying it. As Doug said, if someone is attacking you, email him. But I’ve not seen anyone attack you.”
It’s interesting that you don’t see anyone attacking me when, in the middle of a discussion about Friedl, you go out of your way to say “stop playing the victim card every other post.” Another way of responding to me when we’re talking about Friedl would be to NOT say anything like that, and just stick to the Friedl topic. But you had to take your little shot, didn’t you? Am I supposed to not take it personally because it was “as an aside”?
West Larry, I take your point, and I appreciate it. I’m sure I come across as “sensitive,” but I prefer to think of it as “standing up to bullies.” I’ve come to the defense of other people getting attacked here, not just me. I’ve even come to the defense of David Bell on occasion. (I did it again last night, but I got no love from anyone.) I just don’t respond well when I see unprovoked or unwarranted attacks, whether they’re aimed at me or someone else. It’s always been a trigger for me.
To be fair Friedl in his last seven games – .333/.458/.722
I would like to see him higher too. Every little thing matters in giving your team an edge right now.
West Larry, you are most likely correct, and my last paragraph above wasn’t needed.
Giants down 5-1, Cubs led Rocks 3-0 and now trail 5-3. Let’s have another great day.
Scherzer done for the regular season and Possibly any post-season.
Very few SP traded deadline guys were worth it.
I was just looking at this. There were a total of 8 Starters traded at the Deadline. Verlander has been pretty good, he has a 3.86 ERA since the deadline. Scherzer pretty good too albeit now missing the playoffs. Jordan Montgomery and Aaron Civale league average. Lance Lynn has a 4.60 ERA but that includes 6 good starts and 2 starts where he gave up 7+ runs. Lorenzen has been the opposite with a 5.23 ERA. He has 2 good starts including the No-Hitter, 5 bad starts. Giolito and Flaherty have been arguably the 2 worst pitchers in all of baseball since the trade deadline.
Taking into account the prospects given up: Verlander- worth it, but Drew Gilbert has a .976 OPS in AA, Civale- probably worth it, Lorenzen debatable, Scherzer debatable, Lance Lynn- debatable, Montgomery- Not worth it, Giolito and Falherty- their new team is much worse with them on it.