Things weren’t looking good for the Reds early on, but as things have gone often this season for Cincinnati, the offense got going later on in the game. Cincinnati would score twice in the 6th inning, get a game tying pinch hit homer from Nick Martini in the 8th, and then they would walk things off in the bottom of the 9th to complete the comeback.

Final R H E
Seattle Mariners (77-61)
6 9 0
Cincinnati Reds (73-68)
7 13 0
W: Diaz (8-4) L: Munoz (3-7)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

Connor Phillips took the mound for the first time in a big league uniform on Tuesday evening and he struck out J.P. Crawford to start the game. He would then get Julio Rodriguez  to fly out, but then he walked Cal Raleigh and that old saying that walks will haunt held true as Teoscar Hernandez followed up with a 2-run homer to center to put Seattle ahead.

The Reds tried to get something going in the bottom of the 2nd. Elly De La Cruz led off with a line drive single to right field, but he was caught stealing second base. Christian Encarnacion-Strand and Will Benson followed up with singles to put two men on, but Harrison Bader hit a chopper to shortstop that turned into an inning-ending double play as Cincinnati failed to capitalize on a 3-hit inning.

The next inning the club was once again trying to get something going and like the inning before they got a leadoff single from a rookie who was then caught stealing. Luke Maile followed up with a single of his own, but this time Cincinnati was able to cash in. Jake Fraley picked up an RBI double as Maile chugged his way around the bases from first to score on the play to cut the Mariners lead to 2-1.

Connor Phillips had been pitching well since the 1st inning, but Seattle got to him in the 5th with one out. Josh Rojas and J.P. Crawford picked up back-to-back singles before Julio Rodriguez took a 3-2 fastball thrown dead-red middle of the plate and hit it 397 feet into the seats in right field for a 3-run homer that padded the Mariners lead and made it 5-1. Phillips picked up his 7th strikeout of the day by getting Cal Raleigh looking, but Teoscar Hernandez singled up the middle to follow and that ended the day for the rookie as David Bell called on Chasen Shreve out of the bullpen. He’d get a grounder to end the inning and keep it a 4-run game.

Cincinnati had an opportunity in the bottom of the 5th to do some damage. Noelvi Marte picked up a hustle double to lead off the inning and moved up to third on a groundout. Jake Fraley and TJ Friedl were both hit in the foot by pitches to load the bases, but Spencer Steer would strike out. That left things up to Elly De La Cruz. He hit the ball hard, but his 105 MPH line drive to the warning track in left was caught to end the inning.

The bottom of the 6th saw Cincinnati get on the board quickly as Christian Encarnacion-Strand led off with a long home run down the left field line. Two batters later Noelvi Marte connected for the first home run of his big league career, hitting a solo shot into the seats in left field to make it a 5-3 game.

Back-to-back walks would follow. With a lefty on the mound the Reds called on Nick Senzel to pinch hit for TJ Friedl. He hit the ball hard, but his fly ball was caught a few feet from the wall in right center to end the inning.

In the top of the 7th the Mariners got one of those runs back when Julio Rodriguez led off the inning with his second homer of the day. Derek Law would retire the next two batters, but then got himself into trouble by giving up a double and hitting Ty France. He got himself out of the jam, though, getting a grounder to end the inning.

Cincinnati’s offense isn’t known as the Rally Reds for nothing, and they showed Seattle why in the 8th inning. Noelvi Marte walked with one out and moved up to second when Tyler Stephenson came through with a pinch hit single. David Bell then called on Nick Martini off of the bench to hit for Stuart Fairchild and the move paid off in a huge way as Martini crushed a game-tying 3-run homer into the first row of seats in right field.

With the game tied up, Alexis Diaz took over on the mound in the 9th and quickly walked the leadoff hitter. After a fly out, Diaz induced a grounder that walk called a double play on the field, but the Mariners challenged the call at first and won the challenge to keep the inning alive. Seattle then pinch ran for Ty France at first and Dylan Moore immediately stole second base. Diaz then hit Mike Ford with a pitch to put two runners on. Eugenio Suarez got ahead 3-0 and then got the green light to swing away. And he did just that, but fly out to center to end the inning.

That set up the Reds for a potential walk off win. Elly De La Cruz led off the inning and got ahead 3-0. Like Suarez the previous half-inning, he got a green light on 3-0 and he swung away. He used his speed to beat out a chopper hit to shortstop. De La Cruz then stole second base. Christian Encarnacion-Strand then came through with a single the other way and De La Cruz raced around third and scored the winning run with a head first slide at the plate.

Key Moment of the Game

Nick Martini’s pinch hit 3-run homer in the 8th that tied the game up.

Notes worth noting

Connor Phillips is the first player to be drafted by the Seattle Mariners and to also make his major league debut against the Mariners.

Noelvi Marte had a huge day, going 3-3 with a walk, double, and picking up his first career homer.

Elly De La Cruz has not struck out in back-to-back games for the first time since July 6th and 7th. He’s also walked three times in the last two games.

The Reds struck out just three times in the game. That is just four strikeouts for Cincinnati in the last two games.

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

Seattle Mariners vs Cincinnati Reds

Wednesday September 6th, 6:40pm ET

Logan Gilbert (12-5, 3.56 ERA) vs Lyon Richardson (0-1, 6.75 ERA)

180 Responses

  1. J

    I have to admit, that was a pretty enjoyable comeback win. Mark me down as not quite ready to give up on all the rookies.

  2. Ted Alfred

    You can really see Elly growing up when it comes to his approach at the plate. He’s cut down so impressively on his really bad swings on bad breaking balls really low or in the dirt. His number of bad swings vs good ones is so much better now than it was a couple of months ago. You can see now he’s really starting to value a walk versus trying to hit the cover off the ball everytime and he’s going the other way more with outside pitches. It’s fun to watch his progression. Seeing the same with CES, he’s slowly getting better at laying off the low and away sliders so his percentage of good AB’s is rising.

    • J

      Agreed. I hope they’re all starting to understand the benefits of not striking out so often. Dare to dream…

    • JB WV

      Marte as well, 3 hits tonight. What an exciting future and maybe the present.

    • VaRedsFan

      Agree….willing to go oppo is paying dividends.

      How many people would have jumped on him for swinging 3-0 in the 9th, if he made an out?

    • AllTheHype

      Elly has adjusted at every level so far. He will adjust in MLB too.

  3. VaRedsFan

    I’ll bee right in line to call Bell out on all of his bone head moves during the game.
    But he made all the right moves tonight.
    He got the tired pen through a game with nobody having to pitch on back to back games.

    • mac624

      I find it funny that posters are willing to accept that a player will fail at the plate 75 times out of a 100 (for a .250 average) but expect David Bell to be make the correct decision 100% of the time. Odd. Perhaps Bell is just as human as the players on his team. Idk what his percentage is for making the right decision vs not, but I’m sure he’s above 25% of the time. But I suppose he and Krall are the easy scapegoats when it comes to finding blame in a loss, rather than blame the players who failed to execute.

      • Dewey Roberts

        In the Reds great years, they had a philosophy that it was mental mistakes that lost games more often than physical errors, mistakes, or inabilities. They were right. Bell’s job is mental—not physical.

      • greenmtred

        In the great Reds’ years, they had a roster full of veterans, many of whom were all-stars and future hall-of-famers. All managers make mental mistakes, but judging what is and is not a mistake from the outside has serious limitations, mainly a lack of a great deal of critical information. We’re fans and part of being a fan is raging about misplays, tootblans, walks, managerial decisions with which we disagree, and anything else that offends our sense of how things should have been done.

      • MCT

        Successfully squaring up a baseball at 95+ mph and making (mis)calculated decisions from the dugout with a clipboard and pen in your hand are not the same thing.

      • greenmtred

        No they aren’t, MCT, whether the decision is good or bad. That’s just one reason why evaluating such a decision is difficult.

  4. LT

    So many things to comment on. Marte and CES have been killing it if late. TS, what can I say, I expect a hit from him on every PA, that’s how hot he is the last 7-8 games. What a luxury to have TS and Martini come off the bench. As I said in my early comment to Ashley, Bell got this patched up line up figured out. But save the best for last, having f
    Fraley back has made a huge difference. The offense struggled mightily without him.

  5. Harry Stoner

    EDLC, CES and Marte had a game.

    All 3 looking more comfortable at the plate tonight.

    Castillo trade starting to pay some dividends.

    As is the Geno / Winker PTBNL.

    Phillips served up some taters but also threw well in his debut.

    I hope he gets another start or two in.

  6. Amarillo

    Was this Bell’s best managed game of the season?

    • Mark Moore

      Quite possibly. Still some bullpen “wobbling” but the PH substitutions worked out pretty well in the end.

  7. LT

    Throw slider to Martini at your own risk. The guy can hit slider. His tying HR against the Cubs and now tying Hr against Seattle are both off slider. Both swings are picture perfect. I also noted that, and it might just be my imagination but the rookies have hit better against sliders of late, at least they laid off some bad ones and founded off some tough ones. Maybe they are learning from the master.

    • MBS

      Martini seems to have the clutch gene.

  8. RedlegScott

    Nice job, guys. Martini was HUGE!

  9. JB WV

    Why do my innocuous comments keep getting deleted? This was my last post: “if the Reds sweep the Mariners can they get on a big roll? The remaining schedule is far from imposing.” Am I missing something?

    • Amarillo

      You may have typoed the email, there is a delay for “first comments”

      • Doug Gray

        Correct. Mispelled the email address, so the system sent it into moderation as a “new user”.

  10. Amarillo

    In a lot of ways, this season has been a miracle. Half of our roster are Rookies, and guys who recently were playing in Indy ball. Even if we end up missing the playoffs, I am having more fun watching this team than any I can remember.

  11. LDS

    The real question on EDLC and the Reds generally is whether they are making the adjustments and it’s starting to show up or did Seattle just not get the scouting report? Hopefully, the former but time will tell.

    • Moon

      These are elite professional organizations in a game where a small margin and advantage pays big dividends. There is no doubt they have scouted the Reds and know exactly where the strengths and weaknesses are as well as what other teams have done against them.

    • Harry Stoner

      EDLC has been on streaks before and returned to Ks. Growing pains.

      You’ve also blown off CES and Marte for not keeping pace with your expectations.

      How in the world did “Seattle not get the scouting report”?

      Is that the ‘real question’ or just another lame, cynical one?

      Sorry, I don’t think there’s much of a question there.

      • LDS

        Not cynical. History. The Reds have gone through these streaks before, win a few, hit the ball, SO less, etc. Then a week or two later, it’s back to double digit SOs and swinging for the fences . So identifying the driver of the pattern is critical. Is it luck, coaching, bad prep by the opposing team, etc. So sorry not cynical at all. It’s a question – what is the root cause? And if it’s something along the lines of sometimes that how the game breaks, that’s called luck and nothing has really changed.

      • greenmtred

        But that is not unique to the Reds. All teams have streaks, hot and cold. The ’75 Reds lost six in a row. This year’s team, with rookies occupying five or more of the starting positions, will undoubtedly be prone to streaks.

      • LDS

        @Greenmtred, every team goes through streaks, no doubt. There’s more here than a routine streak, winning or losing. Otherwise, like I said, you guys are arguing for “luck” which changes things dramatically.

      • greenmtred

        LDS: luck does enter in to it, certainly; it’s a part of the game. But I think the Reds, loaded with rookies who are learning and adjusting, are probably prone to more variability than a veteran team would be. I’m enthusiastic, but I don’t see them as likely to get out of the first round if they do make the playoffs this year.

      • LDS

        I agree, not enough pitching to go too far in the playoffs this year. I still think they need new management from the owners on down, but I think we’re stuck for now. Bell isn’t the guy to build a winner. He’s too easy for the other team to game.

  12. Andrew Brewer

    We are seeing the real Reds in action now. Down 5-1 and they just kept the pressure on. As the managers say, “that’s a good team over there”, but the Reds refuse to die. We keep thinking that we don’t have the pitching, and the bats have not been hot, but here we are. This team has never been “explainable”, and they are winning now when it counts. Yep, another win in the 9th… We could surely end this season on a high note !

  13. Redsvol

    I love seeing the young guys leading this team. Not that the veterans aren’t helping, but it seems like young guys just needed some more veterans in the clubhouse to give them confidence. Renfro, Bader, Antone, Shreve, Martini, and Fraley (return) seem to have given a boost to the young guys.

    Incredible to see our Reds patching things together and beating one of the hottest teams in baseball. If we can get thru this week, we may some fuel in the tank for a run.

    Several have said it yesterday and Doug noted it above – 4 strikeouts in 2 games is refreshing after the last few weeks.

  14. Tom Mitsoff

    This team is so amazing. It’s been many years since I’ve enjoyed a late-season like I am now. With all of the good news going on, keep this in mind: Alexis Diaz is no longer a strikeout pitcher, and he’s walking too many hitters. It may be just the fatigue of so much work over a long season. I will suggest again as I did the other day: Tejay Antone as co-closer. Don’t let him go consecutive days if that is the current rehab plan. If they make the playoffs, Antone won’t be eligible, but Diaz will have gotten some much-needed rest if Antone is used in some (or at least half of) closing situations.

    • Jim Walker

      @Tom, The way they do the postseason eligibility now, I believe Atone can be eligible because he was in the organization before September 1. Since he was on the 60 day IL, they may have to declare someone on the 10/15 day IL out and then use him as the replacement; but, it can be done.

      • Tom Mitsoff

        You may be right. You are certainly more informed about rules and regulations than am I. 🙂

    • Tampa Red

      Man, you’re gonna piss off the perpetually grumpy, careful. You’re not allowed Ro enjoy anything! The Mob spares no one lol

    • Jim Walker

      And I agree that Diaz is not the pitcher he was in the 1stv half. The best case scenario for the Reds is that months of off season rest will restore him. In the meantime, the Reds need to come to terms with the current reality and make some adjustments.

    • JB WV

      If Sims would quit walking the first batter he faces 90% of the time(or so it seems) I would be fine with him. TJ will probably have some consistency issues after being out so long, but great to have him back. Yep, Diaz scares me now.

    • greenmtred

      I agree, Tom. This version of Diaz is the stuff of heartburn. I recall that, as a rookie, he had serious command issues at times.

    • MBS

      I don’t know if Antone is there physically yet, but he’s got the mentality for it. He’s also got a new pitch mix, and I’d want to see him pitch a bit more before I’d put him in a closing situation. I wish I had an alternative pitcher to suggest, but we all know we don’t have another closer in this group.

      • greenmtred

        Cruz has looked like a plausible candidate at times.

  15. LT

    Average 7 runs the last 3 and playing inspiring baseball with different players stepping up different days. Steer hit a monster 3-run HR yesterday and he had a rough day at the office today but not to worries, the other rookies come to the rescue with a Martini in their hands. Sounds like May/June does it not?

  16. Rick

    Martini was my MOP player tonight. A few others in the deserved MVP running(Elly, Marte, CES). Greatly important win!

  17. Indy Red Man

    Cubs came back on SF and Colorado beat Arizona. These crazy Reds might just get there. Bell with Phillips tonight and Elly swinging 3-0? Glad I took a call or I might’ve thrown the remote. Fastest guy in the league with the absolute worst pitch recognition and he keeps hacking 3-0? Why exactly would the 3-1 be so much harder to hit? A walk is everything there.
    Anyway we won and CES is making strides.
    Maybe we’ll clean up on the bottom feeders or even sweep tomorrow

    • Tom Mitsoff

      It’s amazing that they left so many men on base in the early stages of the game, and were still able to overcome it.

    • RedlegScott

      My thought exactly, Indy, but I decided not to say anything until now. No way is the lead-off man swinging on a 3-0 count when he’s desperately needed on base (and he’s our #1 weapon on the bases). I was absolutely baffled by that one. Good thing he got on, to say the least.

    • TR

      Careful with the ‘bottom feeders’ in a wild card race as the season winds down. They often make for a surprise.

    • VaRedsFan

      I generally like a green light on 3-0.
      But that was definitely not the time for it.

    • AllTheHype

      3-0 Elly’s getting a hittable FB in the zone, 3-1 he is probably not, and Elly can hit FBs, usually a long way. Absolutely the right call there.

      • wkuchad

        Agree 100% Hype. I give him the 3-0 green light in that situation every single time. Otherwise, he only has one strike to work with before being in a two strike situation, which gives the pitcher a major advantage.

  18. Melvin

    Was out driving and listening on the radio. Pretty cool. 🙂

  19. Melvin

    “Elly De La Cruz has not struck out in back-to-back games for the first time since July 6th and 7th. He’s also walked three times in the last two games.”

    As De La Cruz goes…so go the Reds. I LOVE him not striking out. Outstanding job. Just a little tip. Don’t chop at a 3-0 pitch the next time you’re leading off in the 9th in a tie game. 😀 Great base running though. 🙂

  20. Melvin

    Six walks given up is not so great but only three Ks for the good guys is awesome. I hope they’re starting to enjoy not striking out and keep it up. 🙂

  21. Indy Red Man

    Not a Bell fan, but he went for it last night. He pushed every button in that Cubs finale too even though it went south. Law hit 98 last night, but his command is off. We really miss Cruz. Then all these rookie starters? Great potential, but when you’re content with 3-4 runs in 4-5 innings then your pen & offense are going to get taxed.
    Maybe the offense can take us home? CES hasn’t had a big start to his career on paper, but he’s improved every month and that’s incredible for a rookie. Marte too? He’s a big kid with a quick bat and he looks like he’s on top of the plate with great plate coverage. All of the rookies ceilings are crazy except maybe Abbott and he’s so smart I think he’ll be a solid #3. Keep pushing and fighting. The Vikings would land somewhere to pillage and the captains would burn their boats. There is no retreat.

    • AllTheHype

      Bell handled the pitching staff very well the last two nights.

  22. Reddawgs2012

    I gave up on this team in August. Not in terms of the long term outlook, but for this year. I don’t know if they will make the playoffs, but I was wrong to count them out. Even with all the rookies and injuries. The Reds deserve the benefit of the doubt with all the magic they keep creating this season. The fact that the Bengals start on Sunday, and I’ve hardly given them a second thought, is really something.

    Go Redlegs! I’ll be driving my happy a** to GABP after work tonight to show my support.

    • TR

      A lot going on these days in Cincy with the Reds, Bengals and MLS FC Cincinnati. A championship or two is needed.

    • Redsvol

      good for you Reddawgs. Way to support this team. I’ve seen more games this year than I have in the past 5. You never know what next year will be like.

  23. CI3J

    This team is like Jackie Chan in the Drunken Master films.

    Like there’s no way they SHOULD be able to stay in the fight when they are tripping and stumbling around in a impaired state. Yet somehow, they find a way to land just enough blows to keep winning.

    It defies logic.

  24. Reddawgs2012

    By my count, the Reds are 13-1 vs the AL west this season. Like…what?!

  25. Tom Reeves

    Bell has to be in the conversation for manager of the year. And Krall had to be in the conversation for GM of the year. It’s the players getting it done but the GM, manager, coaching staffs in both the minors and majors, and the scouts that have helped grow and develop these players into a team. It’s a team of rookies, second year players, some guys cut from other teams, and a make-shift rotation and bullpen. And yet…

    Pretty awesome!!

    • wkuchad

      Agree Tom, with both Krall and Bell. Bell had an especially good game last night. It’s been a great year?

  26. AllTheHype

    Krall should definitely be in convo for GM of year. Bell has handled the pitching staff well all year but stuff like refusing to move Votto down or sit more often, Benson up……. He always has too many biases with his lineup construction (like old vets hit no worse than 6th regardless of performance) and I think it’s cost us a game here and there. In the past he did the same with Moustakas when it was obvious he was fat and not performing, and Winker against LHP

    • TR

      I give Bob Castellini some credit for bringing in Nick Krall, a relative unknown, from the Oakland A’s front office as Red’s GM. Krall’s trades with Seattle and Minnesota, in particular, set up the Reds for an exciting 2023 season and the future looks really good.

      • Old Big Ed

        Nick Krall has been working for the Reds since 2003. He worked in Oakland in 2001-02. He was the Reds’ general manager beginning in May 2018 and was promoted when Dick Williams resigned.

  27. AllTheHype

    Is it any conincidence that Votto’s out and Fraley’s back and now the offense is starting to wake up? Hmmmm, no automatic out batting 6th, and the leadoff hitter is getting on base.

    • Redgoggles

      I think it’s less about Votto (out since 8/24), and more about Fraley sparking them (back 9/1). Starting to get contributions throughout. Stephenson, Marte have been hot, in addition to EDLC, CES and Speer with the occasional Martini, Renfroe, etc.

      Striking out less and walking more is the key, just overall competitive ABs again. Not sure what has changed, but I hope they can ride this approach for the rest of the year.

      • Redsvol

        I agree. But I also think its about going after it with the waiver claims. The front office and ownership showed the team that they were going to support them – unlike at the trade deadline – and the team noticed and appears to have gotten some juice from it.

        Regardless of the performance of Bader and Renfro so far, don’t underestimate the importance in an athlete’s mind of being respected and supported. Now if we can just get past this covid outbreak and hope the players don’t have lingering effects.

    • wkuchad

      We were losing plenty while Votto was out.

  28. MCT

    That’s great and all, but… Milwaukee and Chicago also won. Bummer. I guess it always was the wildcard spot, huh?

    • Jim Walker

      Yeah, but it was bordering on a huge night in the Wild Card hunt. Snakes and Giants both lost. Currently, neither can overcome the Reds just on the strength of winning out their games in hand. Unfortunately though, the Marlins won to hold pace with the Reds. Those Fish are now on a 5 game winning streak. I will breathe easier if the Dodgers bounce back and win the remaining 2 games in their series with the Fish.

  29. jon

    Are the covid pitchers pitching at all right now? Will the pitch Friday if available or will it take sometime to build back some strength?

    • greenmtred

      Covid cases are variable, but I have it and Cleted in the 7th inning. It might take them a little while to get strength and stamina back.

      • wkuchad

        Sorry to hear that GMR, hope you’re feeling better soon.

        Agree with you on our pitchers. Some people get covid and never know it or have minor symptoms. Some it can last weeks. Hoping for minor cases for the Reds’ players for sure.

      • greenmtred

        Thanks, wkuchad. It was certainly an unexpected and unwelcome surprise.

      • Old-school

        Sorry GMR

        Youve had a tough year
        Blizzards and floods and plagues

        The locusts are next!!!

  30. gusnwally

    anyone else glad that Krall did not give up Marte for a middle of the road pitcher at the deadline. Be honest with yourself. A lot of people on here were screaming for him to do just that.

    • AllTheHype

      Giolito fetched a top 70 prospect and another organizational top 10. That’s the equivalent of CES and say, Sal Stewart. If Krall had traded that for Giolito’s post-trade deadline ERA of 8, could you even imagine the outcry here?

      Lorenzen hasn’t been good either, post trade-deadline ERA of about 5. Many wanted him instead of Giolito.

      Instead, Krall fetched Moll for the BP and he has had a post-trade deadline ERA of 1.2.

      Everything Krall does seems to work, but he still has detractors for some reason. Fact is, Krall has made pretty much all the right moves for about 2 years. It is very unusual to have to level of success he’s had with the things he can control.

      I read some posts here the other day that suggest Krall has just been lucky. Lucky with scouting, lucky with player development, lucky with prospects stepping up and performing, lucky with trades. He needs to buy a lottery ticket if he’s that lucky.

      • Redsvol

        I’ve said it before, Nick Krall is playing 3D chess while the rest of MLB is playing checkers.

      • wkuchad

        I’m not a Krall detractor (I think he’s done an amazing job overall), and I wanted to trade away zero top prospects, but I still think he deserves criticism for not bringing in a starting pitcher at the deadline. An innings eater #4 type salary dump from a non-contending team would not have cost much in prospect if the Reds were willing to pay the money.

        Look at the starting pitching situation we’re in.

      • AllTheHype

        @wkuch, Lorenzen was that guy, he was the #4 guy that didn’t require top prospects. But he has a 5 ERA post trade deadline. Is that really better than the production we’ve gotten out of the spot he would have taken?

      • wkuchad

        Hype, likely yes. We have guys starting that shouldn’t be starting and can’t pitch 5 innings. That 5 ERA beats most of our current rotation except Abbott. Hopefully we get help very soon off the COVID list, but I personally would love to add Lorenzen to our rotation right now if it didn’t cost much of a prospect.

      • AllTheHype

        Yeah 5 ERA looks ok at the moment because 2 starters are out with Covid and the toe injury to Ashcraft. Can’t really predict that. But we’ve gotten close to 5 ERA overall from the one spot who Lorenzen would have taken.

  31. SultanofSwaff

    Is it just me or was anyone else baffled by the lineup and substitutions last night?
    –I mean, under NO circumstances should Bader get 4 at-bats vs. a RHP (.503 OPS). Wouldn’t it make more sense to play Martini in LF and Friedl in CF?
    –why would you ever sub out Friedl (.818 OPS vs. LHP) halfway thru the game for a far lesser defender in Senzel?
    –If Fraley is unavailable to play the field because of his foot, why not save him for a high leverage situation late while giving the lion’s share of the DH duties to the white hot Tyler Stephenson? Instead, Bell burned thru Fraley after one at-bat.

    My point is that you have to be giving your best hitters more opportunities where they have the advantage. Maybe then you’re not having to scratch and claw so much later in the game.

    • VaRedsFan

      Fraley batted 3 times.
      HBP (in his hurt toe)
      HBP (in his hurt toe)

    • wkuchad

      I thought Bell managed a great game last night. Fraley had three at-bats I believe, and I didn’t disagree with pinch-hitting for him against a lefty in the later innings.

      I’m indifferent on Bader vs Martini for one game. He went with veteran defense/speed versus offense.

      And Bader was a last-minute replacement for an injured Renfroe.

    • Allthehype

      Fraley got 2 PAs to start the game and got a HBP and double. He is to start at DH against RHP. I probably let him bay against the LHRP the third trip thru the lineup. As far as Bader, you have to also weigh the defensive upgrade with both him and friedl in the OF at same time. Although I’m like you, I still probably would have had martini starting over bader against RHSP.

      • Redsvol

        Thank you @VARedsFan, WKU & ATH. I think that about clears it up. Bell pulled a lot of correct strings last night.

        Its actually pretty amazing when you consider all the runners left stranded that we were even in the game.

      • Allthehype

        The game before, bullpen game, was also expertly managed. He hid Mariot in the middle of the game and brought him in the face the bottom of their lineup first. Bell knew he needed 3 innings from Mariot and he arranged it so he would only have to face the top of the lineup once. You don’t see enough Bell compliments here when he does things well. You won’t see them from the guys that just constantly bash him anyway.

      • Still a Red

        I dunno. If Martini starts does he hit the HR, does he hit one earlier, does he strike out 3x. What if he struck out as the PH, would it have been a bad move? Who’s to know? Who knows why Bell decided to start Bader? Does he have any good reason or only bad ones? We don’t know. I think it is impossible to tell if any particular move was the right one or not, some work because you thought they would, some you sure would work don’t, some you have to make. I guess at the end of the day, if the team makes it to the playoffs all one can say is the combination of players executing and managerial decisions, and front office decisions worked out OK……this time.

    • BhamRedsFan

      unbelievable that someone is questioning game management from last night. pretty much unbelievable.

  32. BuzzKutter

    What a great game. It’s really nice to see solid at bats from everyone. I complain when they look lost up there but that hasn’t been the case the last couple games.

    CES was quick to point out they are learning from the veteran guys in his after game interview. Bader and Renfroe were very good pick ups.

    Not everyone may agree but I think they will be an integral part of this team making the playoffs. Renfroe will start hitting balls out of the park.

    • wkuchad

      I noticed CES’ comment too about learning from the veterans. I don’t think that was just lip service.

  33. J

    It really speaks volumes that a team can give up 6 runs and win because a pinch hitter manages to tie the game with a three run homer in the 8th inning, and we’ve got people talking about how this was the manager’s best game. If Martini’s ball is caught at the wall and the Reds lose 6-3, would the same people be here to say 6-3 loss was Bell’s best game? I don’t think so.

    This is what bugs me about the Bell debates. People (some people) get so caught up in the outcomes and don’t pay much attention to the process. Did Bell make some good decisions? Of course. Bell makes good decisions every day, just as every manager does. But he also made some bad moves and got incredibly lucky. The team was losing 5-1 at one point. They clawed back to 5-3. Bell’s next strategic decision was to bring in Law (which I doubt any of us would have done in that situation), and soon it’s 6-3. He eventually winds up pinch hitting Martini in what was supposed to be Fraley’s spot, but he’d earlier pinch hit for Fraley a couple innings earlier due to handedness (which didn’t result in any runs), and was now stuck with Fairchild as his DH because he’d used Fairchild to pinch run (which didn’t result in anything). Then Martini hits his miraculous home run to tie it, and immediately Bell brings in a very shaky Diaz to pitch the 9th, who was incredibly fortunate to get through that inning without giving up a few runs. (Thank you, Suarez, for swinging at that 3-0 pitch when you knew the pitcher was having trouble throwing strikes! Heaven forbid you try to draw a walk and load the bases.) Then we get to the bottom of the 9th, and Bell is letting Elly swing 3-0, which results in a grounder to shortstop that Elly just happens to be able to beat out. (Just as Bell planned it!)

    And because they won 7-6 instead of losing 6-3, we’ve got people talking about how Bell really deserves credit for making all the right moves? This was his best game as a manager because the pitching staff only gave up 6 runs, which was because of Bell’s amazing management? I mean, do people even hear themselves?

    Bell’s management should be evaluated based on whether his decisions made sense at the time, not on the outcomes. Whether the Reds won 7-6 or lost 6-3 wouldn’t have made his moves any better or worse, but a lot of people can’t seem to separate those two things.

    • Allthehype

      Why did Bell do right? Anything? Turning Elly loose on 3-0 was absolutely the right move imo. He’s going to get a grooved FB and he hits those a long way, often. He didn’t connect and got lucky, sure. But I’ll take my chances with elly swinging at a grooves FB every time.

      • STLRedsFan

        In reality, there is no such thing as a “fastball count” in the Big Leagues anymore.

    • AllTheHype

      Bell had zero ML starting pitchers available the last 2 games, and somehow they got through those 2 games giving up just 9 runs to the AL West leading team. And they won both. Yeah, Bell deserves A LOT of credit for that.

      • J

        Bell used major league relievers in one game, and in the other he used major league relievers after his starter gave up five runs. Is this a brilliant strategy or is it basically the some thing we all would have done?

        Again, you’re looking at the outcome and deciding he deserves credit because they won. That’s not a good way to evaluate decisions. A kid can run into the street without looking, and manage to get to the other side without being killed, but that doesn’t make it a brilliant strategy for crossing the street. Outcomes don’t determine the strength of decisions.

      • AllTheHype

        So you’d make all the same good decisions Bell makes, and everyone else would too, but you’d eliminate all the ones you deem bad with hindsight? Interesting strategy. Except managers manage real time, and no one knows how your decisions would be different or turn out, real time.

    • SultanofSwaff

      ….and that’s not including the 5 outs made on the basepaths. Silly stuff like running first pitch (usually a fastball) instead of waiting for a breaking ball count……sometimes you have to take the decision making power away from the player. Case in point, Elly swinging 3-0.

    • BhamRedsFan

      I personally can’t believe we haven’t hired either J or Sultan as our manager already. Everything they say makes so much sense. Fire Krall while you’re at it and hire both of them!

      • J

        I’d be wiling to accept a lot less money to not make trades and say we had good reasons for not making them.

    • Redgoggles


      J, you make make salient points but you have giant blinders when it comes to David Bell. If you’ve ever managed people, you’ll realize there is a balance between micromanaging their every move and allowing them freedom/confidence within the confines of their strengths. David Bell seems to be doing plenty right this year with this team, given the roster flux and circumstances. I think he is more of a manager of people rather than a coach of skills. Yet so many are blaming him for really pretty much everything, including last year when he had a AAAA roster (if that.)

      Your comments come across as though the Reds should never lose (or be behind), and if they do it’s most certainly because of the manager’s decision or lack thereof.

      If it is all on him when the offense is struggling or the bullpen blows the lead or the starters are pulled too soon or left in too long, then surely he deserves at least some credit when things end up “working out well” like last night and so many time this year (especially against the odds)? Or, are the blinders that big?

    • Tom Mitsoff

      Much of the Bell-is-the-worst-ever discussion here comes after individual players fail to get big hits or make plays. He can’t hit, throw or catch for them. They have to do that. When they do, Bell or any manager will look like a million bucks. When they don’t, you have months like August.

      I think we all have nagging questions about Bell. In my case, it’s why Benson, Stephenson, Marte and others remain low in the batting order when they are hitting well. But do I think making a change like that turns this team into a champion? Probably not. I think more often than not, he gets the best out of the team, and that’s all anyone can really ask.

      • Old Big Ed

        The premise of much Bell-bashing here is that if Bell had used the hitter whom the poster wanted, instead of the hitter whom Bell chose, then the poster’s hitter would bash like Ted Williams in 1941, instead of like the .230 hitter that he actually is.

        Same with pitchers. “If he’d used my guy instead of his guy, my guy would have thrown an immaculate inning. Or two.”

      • Redgoggles

        I agree with the nagging questions about lineup construction, although I’m less bothered by it than I used to be when there were gaping holes everywhere. It’s been refreshing to have pretty consistent threats anywhere in the lineup. I have no data to back this up, but I wonder if he “spreads” out the lineup both in handedness and “strength” to make it harder on the opposing manager to navigate bullpen usage. How many times (wisely) does Bell bring in a lesser arm to face the lower half of the lineup or a stronger arm earlier in the game to face the top/middle of the order, etc. From where I sit, this at least somewhat counters the legit argument to be made against stacking all your best hitters at the top.

        Marte has bounced around a bit in his short time here (let off a time or two from memory), and TySteve started out in the middle of the lineup for some time. The one that doesn’t really make sense to me is Benson, but I’m willing to give him the leeway on that one as an outlier. (Benson has been on record saying he likes hitting down in the lineup, not sure that’s a good enough reason but why? Does he watch how the pitcher attacks others before him? Etc.)

      • AllTheHype

        #OldBig, yes 100%. They bash Bell using hindsight, never compliment, and want everyone to assume their decisions would have worked every time.

        I doubt many wanna-be-managers here would have navigated the bullpen game Monday like Bell did.

    • greenmtred

      Determining whether a manger’s decision makes sense, regardless of outcome, requires access to all of the information the manager has.

  34. Doc

    I guess the fifth inning showed that singles haunt, but the common thread between the first inning walk and the fifth inning singles was the Home Run. The HR was the blow that haunted, not the walk or the singles.

  35. MBS

    An improbable series win secured yesterday. I like our chances for a sweep with Richardson taking the mound tonight!

  36. Mark Moore

    The outlook was quite ugly for the Redleg Nine that day.
    They were getting their @$$es kicked, but with a lot of ball to play.

    Happily, a much better outcome than the “Casey at the Bat” poem … 😛

    It’s gonna take the entire rest of this month, but the possibility of October ball is very real. Much like 2021, our fate is in our own hands. Plus I’m still thinking the Stupid Cubs will pull a Cub sometime soon. So maybe we catch them.

  37. jmb

    Shades of the pre-ASB Reds! Good to see, fun! Phillips has been hit hard of late at AAA, so his rough outing was to be expected. CES, EDLC and Marte lead the show–a vision of the future (+ Steer and McLain).

    • DHud

      “Rough” doesn’t really do him credit

      All the runs were scored on HRs – the first of which came after a very good 10 pitch AB from the mariners hitter and a great piece of hitting on a decent pitch. The HR to JRod was a mistake – but I’m not using one mistake pitch to classify a whole start as “rough”

      Overall I thought he pitched very well

  38. SultanofSwaff

    I think at worst you have a high leverage reliever in Phillips. That’s still a huge win when evaluating the trade with Seattle. The fastball/slider combo will play, hopefully the changeup develops and he can stick as a starter (but it won’t if they don’t call for it more *cough Hunter Greene cough*). I did like his demeanor….can see some Graham Ashcraft in him that way.

    • Tom Mitsoff

      Every major league team needs essentially eight starting pitchers to deal with injuries during the long season. Cincinnati has at least that many candidates to fill roles as starters effectively, which is a great return on the rebuild.

      • wkuchad

        Eight is only enough is some are dependable. The Reds do have eight+ starting pitchers with a LOT of potential next year, but it’s just potential.

        We need to sign / trade for one above-average bona fide starting pitcher this offseason. Our biggest need in my opinion.

      • Old Big Ed

        Yeah, they probably needed about 11 starters this year.

        Still, none of the starters has had an actual arm injury. Greene had a hip injury and Covid; Lodolo had a muscle/bone injury in his calf; Ashcraft now has a toe problem; and Williamson has Covid. Lively has a pec issue, which is at least a little arm related.

        Greene and Williamson should be back soon. I haven’t heard if they have been throwing. They are probably banned from being around teammates, but you would think that they could do some bullpens at a college facility.

        These off days will help the whole pitching staff.

      • AllTheHype

        Next year Petty, and possibly Lowder, will join that group. And I think both of them will be better than any pitching promotions we made this year, not named Abbott of course.

      • MBS

        @All, yes those 2 seem to be the best 2 pitching prospects we have. Both are higher rated prospects than Abbott was, but in reality it would be super hard to beat Abbott’s rookie year for either of them. If either, or both beat Williamson’s rookie year I’ll be giddy!

        PS, Aguiar has adjusted very well to AA hitters, I wouldn’t count him out as a nice depth piece in the 2nd half of 24.

  39. Mario

    This team likes to make for exciting finishes. What a huge homer for Martini, steal by Elly and a nice piece of hitting by CES. And to think, many on RLN didn’t think there was room for CES on this team.

    • VaRedsFan

      Minor leaguers have no place on this team 😉

  40. Jim Walker

    Here is today’s long/short on the race for the last WC spot.

    The DBacks and the Giants both need to win 3 more games than the Reds in the remaining season to get the nod over the Reds for the playoffs.

    The Reds need to win 3 more games than the Marlins win in their remaining games to stay ahead of the Marlins. This is because The Marlins have 1 less win and 1 less loss than the Reds with 3 games in hand to the Reds and hold the 2 team tiebreaker vs the Reds.

    I hope to find the time soon to start researching multi team ties 😉

    • Jim Walker

      Note that within the next week, the Marlins will play 2 more games than the Reds because the Reds have both Thursday and Monday off while the Marlins kicked off a run Tuesday of 16 straight games without an off day.

      So as soon as action ends on Monday, we should have a much better defined look at the situation of the Reds vs the Marlins in the WC race.

      The two games the Fish play on the Reds off days are the Dodgers in Miami on Thursday and the Brewers in Milwaukee on Monday. Go Dodgers! Go Brewers!

      • wkuchad

        This is all great info Jim – thanks!

  41. gusnwally

    Jim, have you changed your mind on jake Fraley being the expendable piece of the Reds. I know you have been very vocal about him most of the year. While I have a great deal of respect for your opinions, that is the one thing that I have never understood.I think we are seeing how much better we are with him in the lineup. He is rather poor against lefties. But being a lefty he sees far more pitchers , who are righties. I have advocated all year to package Barrero and Senzel. Senzel only hits lefties, but there are far fewer of them. I know our musings here don’t affect the Reds plans, but, I was just sorta hopin’

    • Indy Red Man

      +1000. Fraley is clutch and he’s a leader. That’s invaluable imo. I bet 5-6 starters are faster then him, but he steals bases. He works at his craft and he’s hard-nosed. They need him badly

    • Jim Walker

      Is it too much of a hedge to say the Reds need the production Jake Fraley is giving them but I don’t think they need Jake Fraley per se?

      Lefthanded power bats seem to be a commodity rather than a specialty. i.e. The Brewers (and others) seem to have one playing 1B and/ or DH every year but almost every year (or 2 at the most) it is a different guy. Teams don’t sink substantial long term money into these guys unless they bring added value beyond their slugging.

      Does Fraley bring added value? His career OPS+ vs. RH pitching is ~120. That’s outstanding but short of great. Versus LH pitching his career OPS+ is in the 50 range which obviously is a negative since not only does his own production fall short here, but it also falls so short a platoon partner is required for him. Being a lefthanded thrower, he lacks positional utility, it is OF, 1B, or DH for him. He is no better than and possibly less than average defensively in the OF. He has a penchant for running into outs on the basepaths. I don’t see any added value.

      If I were the GM of Fraley’s team, I would be pleased with what he has done. However, as he becomes arbitration eligible at age 29, I am looking for a guy to replace him as he replaced Jesse Winker and hoping to deal him either in the process or another deal.

  42. Indy Red Man

    Not arguing but just making conversation. Here goes:

    Hate swinging at 3-0. Especially with a free swinging rook. Votto ok, but he’s earned. I don’t even like guys hacking at 2-0. That was a common thing with the Reds a few years ago. 2-0 so I’m going to take a full hack on a pitchers pitch on the corners. No…that’s not how you win long term. 2-0 heater or hanger that catches alot of the plate then smash it, but rookies?

    Secondly Lorenzen has struggled since the no-no, but guess what? A no-no not only wins that game but saves the pen. Ashcraft pitches his tail off and the pen blew every game in August. A no-no means the pen can’t blow it.

    • wkuchad

      You only get three strikes, and odds aren’t in your favor on any of them. But once you have two strikes, the pitcher has a much, much bigger advantage. For a hitter with the power and potential of De La Cruz, I just wouldn’t want to take away one of those first two strikes (chances) of doing something special.

      I understand the argument both ways. If Keven Newman was at bat facing a righty, I would never let him swing 3-0. But De La Cruz isn’t Newman.

    • AllTheHype

      EDLC can hit one out with 60% power. He connects with grooved FBs most of the time, and that’s why he doesn’t see them, usually. The 3-0 grooved FB will be the best pitch he will see in probably 6 at bats. The odds are in his favor, not the pitcher.

      Gotta take the chance that he can end the game on one swing there, every time. And even if he does not connect, maybe he will still be able to use his speed to get on base, like what happened.

    • Jim Walker

      I couldn’t believe Suarez went after that 3/0 pitch even if it was a get-a-strike fastball. Diaz was clueless about where his “good” stuff was going to end up. There was no way he was going to throw 3 called strikes unless they were all meatballs. Suarez should have taken at least 1 and maybe 2.

    • Old-school

      It really gets to approach and hame situation. A disciplined hitter never swings 3-0 as the lead off hitter in a tie game in bottom 9. Getting on base is priority #1. Then on 3-1 you are looking for your pitch in your location. You make the pitcher come to you

      2-0 is a different deal. Against good pitching you may only get 1 pitch to hit in an at bat and u cant miss it. Tough pitchers locate and change speeds and have nasty stuff… so you have to be selectively aggressive yet patient. Why hitting is the hardest thing to do in sports imo.

      • Melvin

        Personally I would have liked for him to take that pitch last night. However the worst thing about it was that it didn’t seem like he was taking a full cut but just trying to make contact. That approach would have been good except on a 3-0 count. If he was going to swing at that pitch it should have been a HR swing which he usually takes. Glad it all worked out well. It seems he’s trying to get better and making progress. That’s the main thing.

  43. Cincy6464

    CES’ at bat in the 9th was good baseball. He took a healthy cut and leaned over the plate just enough to protect EDLC stealing 2b. The throw sailed high and away due to his swing & lean. You have to be a bit careful and not get called for interfering with the catcher’s throw. Then of course slapping the ball thru the hole in the right side – as the Seattle 2b works the bag to keep Elly from taking 3rd – to drive in the speedy EDLC. Excellent at-bat!
    We’re a long ways from the 2021 team that ran the bases from station-to-station. I’ll admit I was not happy they dismantled the 2021 team – I thought it was premature. But I can’t argue that the Reds are much more athletic & this shows how speed affects the game.

    • J

      Agreed. CES has certainly had his share of rookie blunders at the plate and in the field, but he handled that at-bat about as well as any seasoned veteran possibly could. We may be seeing some real growth with all of these guys.

    • Old Big Ed

      Agreed. CES went the other way, and even if the 1B or 2B had made the play, EDLC would have been on third with only one out. There was a lot upside for the team for his approaching his AB like that.

      CES has a lot better hit tool than people have given him credit for.

  44. J

    For those arguing in favor of giving Elly the green light on the 3-0 pitch, I understand the argument that he’ll get a fastball down the middle, but it’s a flawed argument. Most swings on ANY count will result in either strikes or outs (I assume this is true of all players; it’s certainly true for Elly). So that’s one reason to say “take.” And, if my stats are correct, Elly had previously reached a 3-0 count 7 times in the majors. In 6 of those 7 at-bats he walked. The other at-bat he made an out. So he was hitting .000 but his OBP was about 85% because he almost always walked. When pitchers go 3-0, it often means they don’t have good control, so walks are extremely likely.

    Elly’s hit was basically just a grounder to short. The Reds got lucky. It perfectly illustrates why you shouldn’t expect Elly to crush the ball even on 3-0 when he gets a fastball for a strike. It’s just not as easy as people seem to think. He put it in play and it was a great outcome, but it was lucky, and a poor decision.

    • Redgoggles

      Agreed. I cringed when he swung and even more when it really wasn’t in the middle to the plate. Got lucky with the slight shift combined with his speed.

      The eye test seems like his plate discipline has improved pretty significantly lately. He is such a difference maker that it makes a huge impact and the sooner he can realize that his speed and on base abilities are more important than his power, the better.

      It’s a lot for a 21 year old, but he’s must watch TV.

    • AllTheHype

      Now he is batting .500 on those, so……. citing one at bat, a grounder to short, to support your argument, is indeed a “flawed argument”. It “perfectly illustrates” absolutely nothing.

      • J

        You seem to be missing the point. I’m not saying Elly’s grounder to short proves my point. I’m saying it illustrates my point. I mean it’s an example of what I’m talking about.

        Also, I might that if one guy always swings at 3-0 pitches and hits .500 on those counts, and another guy always takes 3-0 pitches and reaches base 85% of the time by walking, that second guy is actually getting on base more often. Just something to think about.

      • AllTheHype

        Letting Elly go 3-0 was clearly a decision to go for the xBH, not merely getting on base.

      • J

        Yes, it’s always nice to hit doubles and triples and home runs. But the most important thing in that particular situation is reaching base somehow, and statistically the best thing to do when if you’re trying to reach base and you’ve got a 3-0 count is to try to draw a walk, because walks are extremely common after the count has gone 3-0 — but they can only happen if the hitter takes at least one more pitch. If you’re unwilling to take at least one more pitch after the count has reached 3-0, it’s impossible for you to walk.

      • AllTheHype

        You act as though swinging 3-0 eliminates a BB. It does not. It’s about swinging at a pitch where you know what’s coming and where the location will be. And If it’s not there you don’t swing. Elly is very good at hitting a ball a long way most of the time when he knows it is a grooved FB.

    • AllTheHype

      The thing about the 3-0 pitch is, unlike any other count, you know a FB is coming. And you can sit on it. And if you don’t get it, you take. Pretty easy when you’re looking for a specific pitch in a specific location. otherwise you don’t swing. That is the part that J is missing.

      • J

        ATH, maybe you haven’t noticed, but Elly isn’t great when it comes to figuring what each pitch is. If he’s 99% sure the next pitch is going to be a fastball, and it’s actually something else, there’s a pretty good chance he’s not going to recognize it’s something else until he’s already committed to swinging. He swings at a million bad pitches precisely because he’s not good at figuring out mid-pitch whether a pitch is a fastball or something else. He guesses a lot, and if he’s guessing fastball and gets something else, he’s in trouble.

        But the bigger point, as I keep trying to say, is that even if he guesses right, the most likely outcomes from swinging the bat will be strikes and outs. That’s why even the best hitters don’t hit .900 on 3-0 counts, and are more likely to hit closer to .350 if they’re lucky. Most of the time, they’re going to make outs when they put those balls in play.

      • AllTheHype

        3-0 is not a guess. Other counts are. Different ballgame on that count.

  45. Rednat

    i call Bell “the substitute” because he reminds me of a substitute teacher. The goal is just to get through the day without the kids killing eachother. But like a said before I had substitute teachers that eventually become regular teachers and I think that is what is happening with Bell. i HAVE SEEN A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT since 2019 in his management skills. For all the Bell Haters out there can you at least acknowledge that he has improved as a manager?

    • AllTheHype

      He has improved, no doubt. Bell mismanaged the lineup every day in the Moustakas, Winker (against LHSP), and Votto (LHSP) team. He still makes mistakes with lineup, but he manages pitching very well imo.

      • Redgoggles

        How can you say he mismanaged it when his alternatives were Matt Reynolds, Albert Almora and Aristides Aquino?

        What a difference a year makes!

  46. doofus

    The Reds need 3 solid outfielders. Two of the 3 should be lefthanded or switch hitters. Perhaps Benson improves defensively and with the bat. Perhaps Fraley learns to hit lefties. Perhaps Friedl can overcome the grind of a full season. However, I do not believe in “perhaps” for what I believe can be a championship challenging squad going forward.

    Krall will need to prove he can put together a trade or two that brings outfielders. Not just salary dumps for prospects.

    • doofus

      Perhaps Krall can do it. This has yet to be proven.

    • Jim Walker

      +1000. It has been so long since the Reds had a true contender folks are easy sells for guys who very capably fill limited required roles but are not the all around solutions needed by a top tier team.

      Who Recalls that George Foster had 11 OF assists in 1975 including throwing out a man at the plate in the bottom of the 9th of game 6 of the World Series without which there would not have been the infamous Fisk walk off HR 3 innings later? He followed ’75 up with 9 assists in ’76, added 12 more in ’77(when he hit 52HR and drove in 149), and 10 in ’78. And the lowest OPS+ he had in that 1975-78 span was 139. The other 3 years were all north of 150.

      GriffeySr had 39 OF assists from 1975-78 with an average OPS+ of 125.

      This is what all around corner OF on a top team look like.

      • Melvin

        ” It has been so long since the Reds had a true contender folks are easy sells”

        I agree Jim. Reds fans are “easy sells” in a lot of ways. That’s what Big Bob wants us to feel like. We should still expect the best and not lower our standards.

    • AllTheHype

      You’re looking for 3 all star OFs. Good luck. Could sign Bellinger for $250-300M (by some estimates). Not sure where the other 2 are coming from though.

      • doofus

        I wrote that “The Reds need 3 solid outfielders.”

        Foster and Griffey, Sr. were not All-Stars every year.

        Why should the Reds not procure solid outfielders? Why do we the fans, have to accept mediocrity in the outfield?

  47. doofus

    The future IF looks set with Marte, Elly, Mac and CES, left to right.

    Need an answer behind the plate. I am not sold on Stephenson as the long term answer. Perhaps (oops there I go again) he will regain his bat, but I do not like his lack of steady overall defense.

    • Redsvol

      Luke Maile should be priority #1 in getting signed this off-season. He is more than adequate as a catcher considering the other free agent options available for 2024.

  48. doofus

    I am going to change my name to “Perhaps doofus.”

  49. doofus

    Perhaps Bob “We Know How It Is Done” Castellini will put some dinero on the table to procure said needed outfielders? I will not hold my breath.

    • Redgoggles

      He actually just did spend some $$$ on OF’s named Bader and Renfroe.

      Front line starting pitching is the biggest – and costliest – need to take the next step in 2024. Followed by quality (in prime) OF and late inning relievers.

    • Redsvol

      unfortunately there is a grand total of 1 outfielder in his prime that would move the needle – Cody Bellinger. And Cody Bellinger is going to get paid handsomely this off-season.

      Everyone else is >30 years old and a 1 WAR or less player. Actually 2 of the more intriguing free agents are getting an audition in Cincinnati this month – Bader (age 30) and Renfroe (32).

      I would like Krall to get an outfielder but I’m thinking a trade for one is more likely.

  50. Indy Red Man

    Back to the 3-0 Elly discussion. The Reds used to drive me nuts swinging at borderline 2-0 pitches and that’s bad enough. Some pitchers just have fantastic movement and that’s one thing, but if half the ball isn’t in the TV strike zone then you shouldn’t be swinging 3-0 and not 2-0 either for that matter. Gonall the way back to Drew Stubb’s. I wanted so badly for him to be a good player. He had skills, but he just couldn’t stop hacking. He always swung 2-0 at anything close.

    • J

      It’s been driving me nuts for years. Way before the Bell era, that’s for sure. I think the players are all aware that nobody gets featured on ESPN for drawing a walk, and teams don’t give big contracts to guys who walk (unless they also do a lot of other things), so they have almost no personal incentive to take pitches even if that’s what the team needs. I think a lot of them also wildly overestimate their ability to hit fastballs. And managers seem to just accept this “swing in almost any situation” approach as perfectly normal and fine.

      • AllTheHype

        NL League level stats on batted balls
        3-0 count SLG .551
        All other counts SLG .402

        Source: Fangraphs

      • AllTheHype


        NL League level stats on batted balls
        3-0 count SLG .551
        All other counts SLG .395

        Source: Fangraphs

  51. Old-school


    Reds took 2/3 from AL west leaders

    Day off tomorrow

    Greene back sunday

    Giants in freefall

    Marlins tough schedule

    Dbacks arent better than the Reds

    On to St Louis