While Hunter Greene was making his return to the mound on Sunday in Cincinnati, Nick Lodolo was pitching in Iowa while on a rehab assignment to try and get back to the Reds rotation.

The first two innings for Lodolo went well. In the first inning he retired the side with a fly out, a ground out, and a strikeout. The second inning saw him give up a single on a line drive into center, but the lefty picked up two strikeouts looking in the inning to avoid any further damage.

That was the good side of the mixed bag of results. The not-so-good was in the 3rd inning. The frame began with a walk before a force out led to a swapping of runners. But then two singles were followed up by back-to-back walks to bring in a run. The final walk would also be the final batter that Lodolo would face in the game – exiting with the bases loaded. Kevin Herget got the final two outs of the inning without allowing anyone else to score, leaving Lodolo with a final line of 2.1 innings, three hits, two runs, three walks, and three strikeouts. He threw 61 pitches with 34 strikes.

For Lodolo, it was his third rehab start. His first two went quite well. On August 11th he threw 2.0 shutout innings and allowed one hit and had four strikeouts in Arizona the with complex level Reds. August 15th saw him move up to Double-A and throw 3.0 hitless innings with two walks and six strikeouts. The batters in Triple-A posed a little more of a challenge in his first go, at least as hit pitch count mounted.

Curt Casali also was in Iowa working his way back from the injured list. He went 2-4 on Sunday. Casali has now played in five games with the Bats on his rehab assignment and has gone 5-18 (.278) with a double.

85 Responses

  1. CI3J

    But the question is: Is Lodolo healthy?

    The first inkling we had that something was wrong with Lodolo was when he uncharacteristically began struggling with control. 3 walks in 1 inning does not inspire confidence.

    I really hope if Lodolo still doesn’t feel right he would be honest and tell someone before he injures himself even more.

    • Tar Heel Red

      The problem the Reds have (as does all of MLB for that matter) is that starting pitchers are being coddled by their respective organizations for fear of “hurting their arms”.

      I tallied up the starts and innings pitched of the five starting pitcher prospects in the Reds system (Phillips, Petty, Richardson, Aguiar and Stoudt). These five pitchers AVERAGE 3.97 innings per start! Let me say that again…these five pitchers for the Reds, and indeed all across the game, AVERAGE LESS THAN FOUR INNINGS PER START this season! That is pathetic and a major reason why there are so many injuries to pitchers once they get in the majors.

      I can understand a lesser workload for newly drafted pitchers or those in rookie ball, low A and high A. They are learning how to pitch professionally and learning new pitches, etc… But by the time they reach AA and AAA, they should be stretched out enough to increase the average start to AT LEAST five innings, just like a major leaguer is expected to.

      I realize teams invest millions of dollars each year on draftees and prospects, but until they stop conditioning these guys arms to only achieve short stints (and continue to blindly follow analytic data on a spreadsheet) MLB will continue to suffer this systemic problem with no end in sight.

  2. west larry

    IMHP this is what should happen with the reds:
    In 2023
    Votto informs the club that he wants to be used as a d h twice a week, and for pinch hit assignments- and that he expects to be pinch hit for against a tough lefty in a late inning situation. He will retire at the end pf 2023. Other 2023 deciions:
    outfielder TJ and Newman sent down. Barrera and a third catcher brought up (robinson?) brought up if no position player comes off i r.
    Antone and Duarte brought u-two relievers dfa or sent down to triple a.

    2024: I love India, but he is traded in spring training because there is no place to play him.Lodolo, Greene, Ashcraft, Abbott and the other lefty are the starters with a couple in double or triple a to replace whichever can’t cut it. The relievers will be Diaz, Duarte, Antone, both lefty relievers and- you fill in the rest. A lot of sorting still to be done, but we know the infielders starting now and the F troup outfielders will be on the team. Sorry it was so lengthy, all contructive criticisms or other thoughts welcome,

    • MBS

      I pretty much agree with all of the 23 stuff, except Votto will not tell the club that, but I think the club should tell him that.

      24 The club needs to add in a high end bullpen arm, and the OF is no longer the F troop. Benson, Fraley, Friedl, Steer, or the new term BFF’S.

      • Pete

        Votto and Bell are sacred cows. Joey will be back and the Reds will more than likely pay the full price by picking up his option.

        Much like cows of India who will lay down in traffic and congest the roads, the team and its front office will have to work around them.

        The Reds looked like a club with 11 rookies on it: throwing the ball around and schooled by a wily veteran pitcher. Soon to be 12 rookies – anyone missing Moose, Moran, Myers, Minor yet? Didn’t think so.

    • Oldtimer

      Votto should do no such thing.

      Casili would be the 3rd C if one is added. Not Robinson. He is not on 40 man.

      Reds don’t have a player named Barrera and have plenty of INF to play SS.

      IR is a football term. IL is the baseball term.

      Not sure if Newman has an MiLB option left.

      India would be traded in the offseason, not in ST, if he is traded.

      • MK

        Old timer, and just to note I am 70, it might be time for some prune juice as you sound a little grumpy today.

      • west larry

        Oldtimer – I was suggesting that Votto should say that because the manager doesn’t have the courage to tell Votto to limit himself to dh twice a week. Are you one of those who thinks Votto should start five games a week? you are entitled to your opinion. “Casili” would be the one added….not Robinson, he isn’t on the 40 man` that’s easy to correct, just dfa Senzil.
        “reds don’t have a player named Barrera”,,,so it’s okay for you to make a typo and not me? Barrero.
        excuse me, IL.
        Newman does have an option left.
        It would be better, imo, to trade India in S T because you could show that he is healthy and, hopefully, regained some of his speed. That would increase his value and what you could get in return for him. Do I have to explain everything to you?
        Get off of your high horse.

      • west larry

        Senzel. See, everyone makes typo’s.

    • Daytonnati

      Also, he and the Reds split the difference between the $20 million option and the $7 million parting gift. Joey gets $13.5 mil and a farewell tour.

    • Schottzie

      Hunter Greene should be moved to the bullpen. He’s a two pitch pitcher that can’t throw more than 100 innings a year. That’s a recipe for a good reliever for high-leverage situations. The Reds will likely never succumb to this reality, but I’m willing to bet most organizations with a winning culture would have made this move by now or packaged him early on in a trade realizing what his ceiling likely is.

      • Randoxu1

        I couldnt agree more with your comment. He should be moved to the bullpen cause he will never be a successful starting pitcher with his 2 pitch arsenal. The reds dont have the guts to do it but it should be done. The cardinals did it with Jordan Hicks and they have the same type stuff. It wont happen.

      • Frankie Tomatoes

        You guys do know he throws three or four pitches don’t you? Yesterday he threw a fastball slider and a change up. Doug reported that when he was in Louisville he also threw a splitter but he did not throw that this weekend.

      • Schottzie

        I don’t care how many pitches trackman or Hawkeye or what have you says he technically throws, the reality is, as far as batters are concerned, there are only 2 pitches they need to be concerned about when it comes to facing Hunter.

      • JayTheRed

        I know Greene has only made one start so far but if the rest of his starts this year don’t see improvement, I will really wonder about him being a good starting pitcher. It doesn’t do you any good if you have 4 pitches and 2 of them are not very good.

  3. Chris

    Hahaha…. Front office was all about Greene and Lodolo coming back and saving the day… Greene got absolutely demolished and Lodolo will too. This front office is absolutely dilusional. Every year, its “building for the future”. Never now.

    • Pete

      Sure with this teams budget, the smart thing would be to do is pick up as much junk as they can at yard sales and jettison the youngsters. Let’s go for it right now! I’m ready!

      Some of you guys should probably take a break for a few days. The team will settle in at some point but until that time….. seen a lot of crazy talk today.

      • Justin T

        You are thinking too small Pete. The point you miss is NOONE thought it was a good idea to trade a top prospect. Look at the Lorenzon deal, the prospect Philadelphia gave wouldn’t be in the Reds top 10. Anyone who knows MLB knows this division is way down this year and will not stay that way. We had the energy and talent to make a nice run this year and sneak by a few teams but we seen what happened. St Louis has already said they will be looking to add 3 SPs next year. The Cubs will spend money and Milwaukee’s manager uses ours as a chew toy. So stop. Stop trying to make the fans who wanted to see this team improved at the break sound stupid. In 5 years you and I both know this year could’ve been special. The division will not lay down next year. We needed a reliever and 2 veteran starters. Every position is littered with young guys in the organization. Where will they all play? Injuries could be more of a factor moving forward, you just never know. Ownership showed you who they are, up to you to believe them or not.

      • Pete

        I trust Krall’s plan more than rabid fans on a Reds forum – call me crazy if you must.

        We have “11” rookies on the roster, please limit your expectations accordingly. This year’s team was not built to be a serious contender in 2023. We caught a glimpse of the future in a 30-day stretch but it was only a glimpse. Enjoy the process or follow the NFL for a while.

      • MBS

        @Pete, I’m inclined to agree with you about, but with one caveat. What’s Bob’s goal? I can remember several seasons since Bob has owned the team, where we needed help at the deadline, and got nothing. Is Bob’s goal to maximize his profits, or wins? I really don’t know. We’ve had 2 rebuilds in an 8 year span, that doesn’t scream wining as the top priority.

      • Pete

        @MBS: only half joking but I believe Bob C’s main goal is to keep David Bell employed – Bob must really, really like the Bell family. I think Nick Krall will move heaven and earth to build a first-class organization in spite of the Castellini clan. David Bell is an object Krall must maneuver around – can he is the $64K question.

      • David

        The cromulent question was above: What is Bob Castellini’s goal?

        He was all about winning when he got controlling “management authority” of the club. And I would also think that most of the other managing partners go along with him.
        Somehow, I honestly doubt it is all about winning, because reality has not come close to matching words. We’ve been told there is a plan, a rebuild plan, a special rebuild plan. Well, Nick Krall made a lot of trades last year that actually did collect some significant talent. So prior to these trades, this “plan” looked pretty weak.
        So my stupid fan guess is that there was no real plan, except to collect a lot of high draft choices (the Pittsburgh Pirates plan, as it were) and somehow hope that they would develop, and there would be a competitive window before they all got too expensive, and were traded away.
        I do give Nick Krall a lot of credit (and the people that work for him) in terms of the overall Reds farm system is better. They are all winning more games. Pitching, as always, is still thin (especially at AAA).
        Whether this translates into Reds winning is yet to be seen. YEah, Hunter got bombed yesterday. Maybe next time out he’s better. Maybe not. Lodolo, ditto. Lodolo is basically going through Spring Training here, and still has to build up arm strength.
        I think that this West Coast trip will see the Reds fall out of contention. I see a lot of losing out there. The weaknesses of all the young players will be revealed. And Votto needs to retire after this season. It think that with this road trip, the team will become very dispirited, and the lack of energetic leadership from 3 – year extension David Bell will once again be highlighted.
        So no, I don’t think Castellini and the management group really cares that much about winning. Lip service. They do care about making money, though. They have had problems with the TV contract revenue stream, and that is a real issue.

      • Justin T

        I still do not understand the “we have a young team, lets blow the season because we didnt expect to be good” attitude of some of the fans in Cincinnati. Maybe I do need to just follow the NFL because I sure seem to be missing something here. Noone ever touches on the point, its just “we werent supposed to be good so be happy”. Nothing to back up their point because there is no logic to it. Next year, history says we will be right back where we are right now. Then the check comes do for the young guys and we start this rebuild back up again. Its the mentality that this ownership group has conditioned alot of fans with.

      • Greenfield Red

        Justin, Where do you think the Cards will get three quality starting pitchers this winter? It’s not going to happen. I think the Mets would balk at the price it would take to do that, let alone the Cards.

        I highly doubt their GM stated that publicly to begin with.

      • Justin T

        Greenfield Reds, copied link below this is just one place I read it. If you google cards look to add 3 starting pitchers youll see many others. Theres is even direct quote from John Mozeliak. You doubting it further shows how we forget what a winning culture is, because Reds fans would have a stroke if Castellini or even Krall said losing is unacceptable.

        With all due respect, I do not make things up to prove a point especially when my biggest point is I just want my Reds to do well. To see someone in StL front office come out and say losing is unacceptable is a pipe dream for us Reds fans. We cannot agree that there is even a problem with our ownership. For every Spencer Steer trade there is a Wade Miley debacle. For every Marte trade there is a Mike Minor or David Bell extension. Noone has displayed competence down there, like it or not the jury is out on Krall. But so far I see nothing but losing seasons and a 3 year extension for a manager who just lost 100 games and is on contract number 3 in 4.75 years. But they seem to do just enough to keep people excited for next year.


    • Greenfield Red

      Sure, there were promises made when ownership changed. But, there were a lot of bad decisions made too. The Griffey trade (may be pre Castillini IDK) and contract put the organization back not just 10 years but probably 20 because in 2023 they are still paying him. Most here disagree with me, but the Votto contract was another harpoon they haven’t gotten past, and they haven’t won anything during his career. The 2015 trades, by Walt Jocketty for “major league ready” talent also decimated the organization and gave them no chance to win anything. They got nothing for Bruce, Cueto, Chapman, Frazier and others. Dick Williams 2020 free agent signings were a disaster. Something had to be done both financially and talent wise to right the ship.

      Along comes Nick Krall. The amazing amount of talent he has added to the organization in less than two years should become the model all organizations aspire to be. By not trading away any of that talent at the trade deadline, he further solidified his soon to be dominance of not just the Central, but all of the National League. And I believe they will win the World Series in the next 5 years, because it appears he has made a viable plan to do that and he is sticking with it.

      Many say, they don’t need 6 shortstops. I disagree because they can pick the best one of the 6 to man the position in Cincinnati. Once that is done, they can then move them around the Reds team as needed or trade 1 or 2 or 3 of them then. They can’t trade from that group until they know which one will be best. I hope it’s ELDC, but he has got to cut down the strikeouts. Until he does, he will not lock down the position. There will always be someone looking to take his spot.

      2023 is not the year. It never was. They are still paying unproductive guys or guys who aren’t even here because of earlier decisions. Their young talent is/was close, but probably not quite ready to really compete. They bought up a parade of rookies who exploded onto the scene but have all seen their stats normalize. Will they be great next year? I think so, but if not there will soon be someone in the minors who is performing looking to take their spot because of the talent NK has accumulated. Then after that, there will be wave after wave of high end prospects looking to knock someone out of a job. Few on these forums talk much about how all the young guys will eventually will push the rookies who will soon be veterans. Collier, Stewart, Lowder, Arroyo, Phillips, Petty, Cabrera, Jorge, Stafura, Floyd, Duno, Rodriquez, Acosta, Lin, Aguiar, Dunn, Sanchez, Balcazar, Pineda, and more are not going to sit around and await their turn. They will push ELDC, Steer, Benson, Greene, Lodolo, McClain and others to get better or get out of the way.

      In 24 there will be money to spend to add a couple of difference makers to go with all this incredible young talent (high end starter or outfielder for instance), and they will or the few fans who still have faith, myself included, will bolt. They really don’t have any choice.

      So, Chris, I think you are wrong. And no, you can’t judge Greene and Lodolo on one start each any more than those who lamented not trading for Lorenzen based upon one start. I think they will win and win big in the next several years and that future you mentioned, is finally almost here.

      • Pete

        Thanks, you get it! You realize it’s not just about the team that’s currently on the field but the organization as a whole. If it is viewed through this lens, you can’t help but be thrilled about the future.

      • Greenfield Red

        I’m with you Pete. 100%. It’s hard for me to even understand the other side of this argument. It all looks so clear to me.

      • Justin T

        A 120 million dollar contract given over 20 years ago does not cripple a good franchise.

      • Justin T

        Not sure how you could watch the series against Atlanta back in June and not see that this team had a chance to do something special THIS YEAR. They needed to add a couple of arms. But wait, we dont wanna mortgage the future for a “rental”…who said you had to rent? The 2 backup catchers are among the top 5 highest paid players on this team! You couldnt afford to add some salary when your attendance is way over projection anyways? Please. Next year we will wait for next year.

      • Greenfield Red

        I guess you found an article where the St Loius GM said he will add 3 starters. I would be willing to bet they don’t. Sounds like they just traded for several AAA starters and they will rely on that. Good luck to them. See how well the Reds did with the Cueto trade and all that major league ready pitching they aquired.

        I agree, a 120 mil contract signed 20 years ago should not have an effect on a good franchise. It’s a shame they kicked the can down the road by stretching out the payments for those same 20 years. This doesn’t even mention the careers of the prospects they gave up. So yes, 20 years later, that terrible trade and extension is still haunting the Reds.

        I stand by my statements. All these great rookies were bound to normalize, and they did. Any gain by trading away someone like Hector for say Lorenzen would be negated by that normalization even if Lorenzen pitches great. Then what is the result? You’ve given away a good prospect for nothing of value, and you still don’t win the World Series in 23.

        I think Nick Krall has a plan, and for the first tine in about 25 years, it is a plan to win. If the Reds smdon’t add at least 1 high end bat or 1 high end starting pitcher via free agency this winter, I will join your pessimistic chorus. Until then, I want them to stay the course, and I’d like them to trade Moll for Boyle if they get the chance.

    • Doc

      Only if one thinks only in the short term, not if one thinks in the longer term.

  4. Justin T

    I found it odd that the Reds organization said one of the reasons for not getting pitching at the deadline was because Lodolo and Greene were returning. Never in my life have I heard a coach or management depend on a player coming back from injury in any pro sports league. This is why. It amazes me to see what Reds fans will tolerate from ownership. They kind of made a stand early in the year and then after a winning streak they come home to sellouts. To hear fans say they trust this process is sad to me. We deserve better as fans, I really want to believe that but if you look around America the pro sports towns get what they put up with. We keep extending an incompetent manager because the bar is so low here the fans have forgotten what (consistent) winning baseball looks like. These young players have all been played out of position and have developed horrible bad habits that will be hard to coach out of them. Every young player has regressed after they arrive here and stay for a couple mos. We built a team that all play the same position and strike out an alarmingly high amount. McClain has been consistent but he was a seasoned player to start with, EDC is a joy to watch but he needs to be shown the way. One hitter swings at the first pitch when a pitcher is struggling and the next time he will watch three strikes from the same struggling pitcher. David Bell’s lineups against lefties suggest he automatically surrenders the win for that day. There is so much potential here but we have entered the “marvin lewis years” that the Bengals were stuck in for 15 yrs. Being competitive is the goal and championships will not be spoken of. If ownership and the GM showed us anything this year its that they will not do whats necessary to win. People who think we had to give away major prospects to help this team this year at the deadline are drunk off the kool aid at this point. David Bell aka Marvin Lewis will be here for the next 15 years because thats what the fans have shown they will put up with. Hard to be a fan now days and this season has been an indicator that no matter what, we lack the savviness in the front office to compete with the big boys. We will have the players from time to time, but never the know-how in the front office. This young farm system we are excited about? Look what we gave for it. Castillo and Sonny Gray alone are having Cy Young type seasons. You better get something for them. I will not be surprised to see Votto back in the lineup bect year and Mr Bell moving the entire lineup around just to give him his 4 ABs. Thats Bell’s sole purpose in Cincinnati, to be the yes man.

    • Rednat

      strong post. the point about the regression of the young players is so true and what worries me the most. that has been the the theme for the majority of this century for the reds. we get a good prospect and they have a solid first year and then the league “figures them out”. then they kind of just fade away. Drew Stubbs, Billy Hamilton, Aquino. It appears Senzel, india and Stpehenson may be headed in the same direction.

      not sure if it is a development problem or we are just not drafting the right type of player but it is frustrating indeed.

      • David

        Drew Stubbs (although highly regarded and drafted high) was to me, always a marginal player. Good outfielder, but had a slow bat. Hard stuff in, he couldn’t turn on, and he chased breaking balls away. Tried to pull everything, because he thought he was a power hitter.
        Billy Hamilton, although a talented athlete, was never develop as a ball player, especially as a hitter. Never bunted, never hit down on the ball to make contact.
        Artistides Aquino was another talented athlete, but he never adapted to major league pitching. That happens a lot to star minor leaguers; they never make the jump. Spencer Steer and Matt McLain have. Will EDLC make that jump? Sometimes it takes a couple of seasons.

      • Jim Walker

        +1000. In this world, even compound sentences read better as standalone paragraphs.

      • Justin T

        Sorry, I just got goin and could not stop lol.

    • Votto4life

      Great post Justin. I completely agree.

      I especially love this gem: “This young farm system we are excited about? Look what we gave for it. Castillo and Sonny Gray alone are having Cy Young type seasons” perfectly said!

      • Doc

        Castillo’s season is not as good as Abbott’s!

    • LDS

      Excellent @JustinT. The young guys were called up to drive attendance not to win ball games. That’s not Bell’s purpose. It’s not even in his skill set. All we are getting is smoke and mirrors. If EDLC turns out to be the next Aquino, it’ll be on the Reds. Signing Bell to an extension and not looking for pitching was the purest indication of the team’s direction. Not having the guts to tell Votto he’s through is emblematic of this organization’s weaknesses.

      • Greenfield Red

        LDS, I agree completely on your Votto point. Others will say look at his OPS. But he is not getting the job done other than an occasional home run. I think there is 0% chance they pick up his option.

        And while I don’t understand Bell’s new contract, I see a plan in place and it’s working. Someone above asked if the Reds were trying to copy Pittsburgh’s plan for high draft picks. While I wish they would have considered that more in the bad years, the Reds have added a ton of high end young talent through various means to include the draft, but more of this young group is coming from trades and international signings than the draft.

        In fact since 2016, the draft has not added that much to the major league roster as of yet, and there has been at least one massive disappointment (Hendrick). Senzel probably gone. Greene on pace, but no real contribution yet. India ROY and an above average major leaguer. Lodolo see Greene. Hendrick. Lowder and Collier TBD.

      • Greenfield Red

        Somehow forgot McClain in my last paragraph. So far, he looks great from the draft.


        This was my fear a year ago when the trades took place to bring in this talented group of players. That’s why I wanted the Reds to improve the minor league staff, get coaches that could teach these young guys. Ask any great player and they always mention someone that show them the ropes or helped them along the way. There are some good players at all levels and they need to learn, step by step, knowing their weakness and making the adjustments to become major league players. Knew the David Bell crew hasn’t and frankly won’t, maybe its to late by the time he gets them, so it needs to done before they arrived at GABP. The Reds have brought up players too early to boost the gate, something they have done for years. Were MOST of these players ready, no! Just a quick fix with no plan, never is, it’s the Reds Way. So when some of these players end up being the next Hamilton, Stubbs or AA, I will not be shocked. Maybe it’s just some of us have been around long enough that we have seen this movie before and some younger fans haven’t, YET! I hope NK has a great plan but he’ll have to show me at this point. If he is fighting the Owners to get things going in the right direction then he just lost the first round with the 3 year deal to Mr. Bell. Anyway Go Reds!

      • LDS

        Yeah, @RedThunder, some of us have been around a long time. And we’re starting to wonder whether the Reds will ever be competitive again while we still are.

    • MK

      Never have I heard of a team depending 5 rookies starting in the field being a playoff contender. So there are several unusual things about this team.


        MK, Agree 100%! There are unusual things this year, good and bad. I think mostly for the good. Sure miss seeing the Dragons visiting the Bowling Green Hot Rods.

  5. RedsGettingBetter

    Lodolo faced a very good hitting team as Iowa Cubs. I think it’s really necessary to give to Lodolo a more couple of starts at triple-A and if he can dominate then proceed to call him from the IL not before…

    • Doc

      We were originally told he would be around the first of September for Lodolo. My calendar says that is just shy of two more weeks, plenty of time for those two more starts.

  6. Brian

    The rookie class are exciting but the chances that they all are very good for the long term are probably slim. How many people still want to extend India and Stephenson for a couple of more years? That changed quite quickly. I’m most confident about McLain and Steer. EDLC has the most talent but seems the least mature and the media may have implanted a god complex into the kid. He needs a lot of work. I could see him smashing 40 and stealing 50 but I could also see him losing it and having issues with contact. I’m excited about what CES could be, he can be the best hitter on the team but will he? Marte? Nobody knows.

    The outfield? No studs and no depth. There are like 3 adequate looking guys but nothing that screams that they’re awesome. I’m underwhelmed with the outfield.

    The pitching? Ashcraft and Diaz are the guys that I have the most long term faith in. Abbott? Could he be something special? Our fingers are crossed. Greene and Lodolo are big question marks. The bullpen needs 3 or 4 guys replaced.

    The future????? Injuries happen and can derail any player at any time. Rookies commonly have growing pains and we have a whole group of potential growing pains. That’s what you’re seeing now. The bad thing? Growing pains can last for years. Anyone that has this roster automatically going to the playoffs in 24 or 25 is sadly mistaken. A playoff run is never a given, you can’t control other teams rosters. If they use their insights and money to improve in places that you won’t then that’s another battle.
    This team needs some development luck, some health luck and they need to manage all of these question marks. They need to be cautious but they do need to add in several areas….. sorry for the book…,

    • MK

      Just don’t think Stephenson has been right either physically or mentally all year. They made such a public plan about protecting his health that it has grown him off his game and he seems to be overly protective of himself offensively and defensively.

  7. Optimist

    What do the underlying analytics show about Lodolo’s starts? Where the walks close calls, or clearly out of the zone?

    There’s much less concern about the scoreboard results than the individual pitch results – did he have command and control, one or the other, or neither?

    Didn’t sound like he got blasted, but was he taking it easier than normal, and is the injury wholly gone?

  8. LeRoy

    When everyone was predicting 60 to 70 wins this season for the Reds, I predicted that with all the rookies possibly coming up this year that this would be a very entertaining and interesting year. The rookies haven’t matched how good they were in the minors yet but it sure has been fun watching them. The Brewers are a more seasoned team than the Cubs or Reds and will probably win the division by 6 or more games and the Cubs and Reds will probably be out of the playoff picture. This is not yet the year of a world championship but at least there is now hope.

  9. DataDumpster

    Liking the comment earlier about Milwaukee’s manager using David Bell as a chew toy. When the Reds were flying high and then got shutout 3 straight games by the Brew Crew, I said that Counsell figured out the Red’s young hitter’s weaknesses and outmaneuvered Bell. Other teams would take notice and this will portend the Red’s slide to a .500 team at best. All in all, not a bad season if it turns this way but it seems obvious that Bell is not a big game manager.

    • Jim Walker

      I believe Bell behind the curtain is in fact the same Bell we glimpse in his public pronouncements. That’s a go with the flow guy who manages by the numbers in his spreadsheets.

      His spreadsheets may be more sophisticated and comprehensive than the publicly available numbers; but, in the end, they are still narrative and not prophetic. He doesn’t seem to adjust to this.

    • Jim Walker

      Bell’s in game weakness starts with his blind faith in handedness stats. Take Fraley for example.

      How many times has Fraley been switched out when a LH reliever entered only for the Reds to get an even worse mismatch by his replacement facing a subsequent handedness mismatch when a different reliever entered? Or alternatively, how many times has Bell busted his gut to get Fraley into the game at 1st opportunity when a LH starting pitcher was lifted for a RH reliever only to later end up with Fraley mismatched versus a following LH reliever?

      There are better ways to manage these situations than Bell has used; but, continues to plod along his predictable path.

      • DataDumpster

        Good summary Jim. Don’t you also think his predictability gets noticed by the other managers? Bell probably has some value in an executive position but not on the field!

      • Justin T

        Well stated indeed. When DB is making these “handedness” adjustments maybe he doesnt realize the other manager can easily counter those moves as the game flows on.

        I am a frustrated fan I will admit, maybe I need to step back and see the bigger vision but I do know that the David Bell criticism isnt loud enough. It’s like watching the same movie over and over. I have been a baseball fan my entire life and have never noticed a manager injecting himself into the game like him. I find it bordering on cluelessness at worst and pointless at best. How can he so bad at managing the pitching staff year after year? He has not improved as a manager even slightly. How do you even manage to do that? The human condition allows a person to make better decisions based off experience and the last bad decision right?

      • TR

        Whenever David Bell’s tenure ends as manager, it’s likely he’ll get a front office position somewhere. It’s where he was when he accepted his first, one and only, managership with the Reds.

      • Melvin

        Are you trying to say Jim that David Bell gets “outmanaged” on a regular basis? Naaaw! 😀 He just signed a three year extension. That can’t be true.


        David Bell has a track record and it speaks volumes! Go look at it if you are brave enough. He is what he has always been, nothing changes with him, maybe socks, lol. Lets go get 20 in a row, Go Reds!

      • Jim Walker

        @JustinT>> I’d certainly hope Bell is clued into the other manager paying attention to what he is doing. And I’d expect Bell to be fully aware of the opposition manager’s options to counter.

        Many times in poker, the best played cards are the cards that never make it onto the table. However Bell typically does not let a “hand” develop. He empties his bench as quickly as the platooning spots come up. His goal seems to be to get or expand a lead as soon as possible then count on his bullpen to bring home bacon. When the tactic fails or the pen loses the lead, he has nothing left.

      • Melvin

        Jim – I think Bell needs you to teach him some poker principles. Good luck though. 😉

    • MK

      We’re the Reds deep enough in personnel to make the adjustments you allude to?

      • Jim Walker

        I think this varies depending on the opposing pen and game situation. But here are some general thoughts.

        Don’t make a platoon switch with 2 outs and no one in scoring position unless the margin is -1 and it is the 8th inning or later.

        Don’t make a platoon switch with 2 outs and a runner in scoring position with the lead unless it is the 8th inning or later. Think twice about using a platoon switch in a tie game with a runner in scoring position and 2 out before the 8th inning.

        When there are enough outs left in a game that the lineup is guaranteed to roll back to a lineup spot, don’t use a platoon switch when an extra base hit is required to plate a run, regardless of how many are on or out. The possible exception to this is to use a platoon sub to lead off an inning if at least the next 3 batters are handedness neutral.

        These are just off the top of my head and are personnel neutral. If a manager feels compelled to make a platoon switch contrary to these rules, perhaps the manager should be questioning why a guy is even part of a platoon versus being a bench player who is spotted as a pinch hitter in leverage situations or alternately why he shouldn’t be a full time player who isn’t matched with a platoon partner.

      • Pete

        @jim this all makes sense. But David Bell likes to manage and I think he gets a sense of worth when he is “managing”. To me he is the anti-Jack McKeon. If my memory serves right, Jack would always be sitting on the bench with Don Gullet. Seldom would he stand on the front dugout rail as Bell does during the whole game.

        I miss old Jack. Seemed like his philosophy was to just let the guys play. I think he could’ve been a great fit for this group that we have now.

  10. DW

    Joe Boyle’s line with Midland (AA) on Friday in a 1-0 loss:
    6 1/3IP 1R 4H 2BB 8K
    94 pitches – 63 strikes

    His numbers in three starts since the trade:
    2-1 Record
    17 1/3IP 4R 4ER 12H 7BB 1HBP 28K 2.08ERA .197AVG 1.10WHIP

    Time will tell, but he has been very good thus far.

    • Doc

      As several of us suggested could happen, naming Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson as examples.

    • Pete

      Hopefully, this will give them an opportunity to call somebody who can provide long relief services. It’s ridiculous and a game like yesterday to use that many relievers. Should’ve been two at maximum. The Reds bullpen looks fresh but won’t last long with this long road trip.

    • MBS

      I think Ashcraft was moved to the Taxi squad for this road trip, I’m guessing that will pay immediate dividends with a double header now scheduled.

      • MBS

        Richardson, not Ashcraft. I only see typo’s after I hit submit.

      • Jim Walker

        Who doesn’t these name things happen to??? 😉

  11. MK

    Watching him yesterday I do not believe Santillan will be of any help to the Reds this season.

  12. MK

    Cubs released Tucker Barnhart. Probably a better choice than Casali at this point.

    • Jim Walker

      Better to avoid both and get Chuckie Robinson up instead if they need a 3rd catcher. He probably knows more about most of the pitchers than either Casali or Barnhart and has swung a good bat at AAA all year.

  13. Bill J

    When everyone is healthy I would like to see this lineup run out daily no matter who is pitching.
    McLain 2B
    Fried CF
    Steer LF
    Benson RF
    Marte 3B
    Fraley DH
    Encarnacio-strand 1b
    DeLaCruz SS
    Maile C

      • Bill J

        WHO? The sad thing about Votto, Jim Brown retired after one of his best years, while he was at his best buy Votto will probably retire on a down year.

  14. Tim

    These are the longest posts to any thread I’ve ever seen on here. Waxing eloquent are we?

  15. MK

    Since they are going to need 40-man spot for a few 69-day DL guys soon I think they have to consider releasing Curt Casali. They will just be on the hook for a months salary and Maile has outplayed him hitting and throwing and pitch calling seems to be good as well. Really Maile has played better than Stephenson in most phases as well.

  16. citizen54

    Lodolo’s velocity yesterday lower than usual. He was sitting at 92-93 and I think he only had one pitch hit 94.