The Washington Nationals hit two home runs in the first inning and never looked back as they picked up a 6-3 win on Sunday afternoon at Great American Ball Park. The win gave Washington a series sweep and it extended the Cincinnati Reds losing streak to six games.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Washington Nationals (49-63) |
6 | 10 | 0 |
| Cincinnati Reds (59-55) |
3 | 7 | 1 |
| W: Machado (3-0) L: Richardson (0-1) SV: Finnegan (17) | |||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
Welcome to the big leagues, kid. That was the message sent to Lyon Richardson in his big league debut from the Nationals. Washington’s CJ Abrams and Lane Thomas went back-to-back on the first two pitches of the game to take a 2-0 lead. A walk and a single followed before Richardson would get the first out of the game. But Jake Alu singled to bring both runners in and it was 4-0 in a matter of minutes.
After Richardson worked around a walk in the top of the 2nd inning the Reds got on the board. Joey Votto took a 97 MPH fastball the opposite way and put it in the seats in left field for a solo homer to cut into the Nationals lead and make it 4-1. Two walks and a single from Stuart Fairchild with two outs brought in a second run as Cincinnati began to chip away.
Lyon Richardson had to work around another walk in the top of the 3rd inning, but he did so and kept it a 4-2 game. In the bottom of the inning TJ Friedl led off with his 10th homer of the season to make it a 1-run deficit for Cincinnati.
Buck Farmer took over for Richardson in the 4th as he reached his pitch count. He would walk Alex Call with one out and then give up a single to CJ Abrams. With Lane Thomas at the plate, Abrams stole second and when the throw went to the bag, Call took off for home. Matt McLain caught the throw from Stephenson and fired back to him in time to get the out at the plate. That may have been big because Lane Thomas doubled to the wall to make it 5-3. Farmer then walked Joey Meneses and Keibert Ruiz to load the bases. That was enough for David Bell as the manager called on Sam Moll to come in and face lefty Dominic Smith. The move paid off as Smith grounded out to end the inning and strand all three runners.
When the 5th inning began Moll was back on the mound and he needed just 11 pitches to retire the Nationals in order. Elly De La Cruz and TJ Friedl had 1-out singles in the bottom of the inning, and Friedl would eventually steal second base, but back-to-back strikeouts would end the inning and strand them both.
Fernando Cruz took over for Cincinnati in the 6th and he worked around a single to keep the Nationals off the board. He returned for the 7th and struck out the first two batters of the inning before David Bell called on Alex Young to enter the game to face lefty Jake Alu with the bases empty. Young gave up a single to Alu, but he got a ground out to strand him there and end the inning.
Young returned for the top of the 8th inning. He walked Stone Garrett and fell behind Alex Call 3-0 before back-to-back called strikes. But after that second strike the trainer made a mound visit and Young exited the game. Following the game it was announced that he was experiencing back spasms. Lucas Sims, who had already been warming up, entered the game. Sims fired a slider that Call took for strike three to finish the at-bat. Garrett took off to steal second base and slid into the bag, which worked out at the time for the Reds as CJ Abrams doubled into the right field corner and Garrett could only advance to third on the play. It turned out that it likely didn’t matter because Lane Thomas hit a sacrifice fly to extend the Nationals lead to 6-3. A ground out ended the inning on the next pitch.
The Reds went down in order in the 8th inning. After Ian Gibaut kept the Nationals off the board in the top of the 9th, Cincinnati’s offense would get one more shot against Washington closer Kyle Finnegan. Joey Votto struck out to begin the inning. Tyler Stephenson would follow up with a single into right field. Nick Senzel took the first pitch he saw and lined a single of his own into right field to bring the tying run to the plate. That brought Spencer Steer to the plate, but he struck out on four pitches, leaving the game up to Stuart Fairchild. He would line out to right field to end the game as the Nationals came into Great American Ball Park and sweep the Reds.
Key Moment of the Game
The first two pitches of the game landed in the stands and the Nationals never looked back.
Notes Worth Noting
Joey Votto’s home run was the 354th of his career. That moves him into a tie with Luis Gonzalez and Lee May for 92nd all time.
Via @EliasSports … In pitch count era (since 1999), Lyon Richardson is the first MLB pitcher to allow homers on each of his first 2 career pitches. On 9/23/2010 Fla’s Sandy Rosario allowed a 1st-pitch HR to Mil’s Rickie Weeks and then a homer on a 2nd pitch to Prince Fielder.
— Mark Sheldon (@m_sheldon) August 6, 2023
TJ Friedl is the first player with 10+ bunt hits and 10+ HR since Kolten Wong had 11 of both in 2019.
— Joel Luckhaupt (@jluckhaupt) August 6, 2023
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Miami Marlins vs Cincinnati Reds
Monday August 7th, 4:40pm ET
Eury Perez (5-3, 2.36 ERA) vs Brandon Williamson (3-2, 4.85 ERA)
“TJ Friedl is the first player with 10+ bunt hits and 10+ HR since Kolten Wong had 11 of both in 2019.”
Not too many have with Joe Morgan being one of them I believe.
“Sometimes you just tip your hat”,…..Chris Welsh
Notice how often that is the post game line these days? Reds aren’t ready for primetime. I suspect that line is a better fit. Oh well.
We’ve had a good season with lots of young talent. So,..the future looks promising. We are just not there yet. Plus Krall made a really really dumb move giving Bell 3 more years. Having said that,..go Reds!
Krall didn’t make that decision. I wish you would quit saying it you’re bumming me out.
There is no way on God’s green earth the same guy who has built this masterpiece of an organization would have extended Bell before the season was over. No chance – please stop saying it. Thank you,
“Masterpiece of an organization?” Sarcasm?
Okay, Pete. I sure don’t want to bum you out.
Pete, what do you mean Krall didn’t make that decision? I don’t really have a positive or negative feeling on that extension, but I’m just puzzled by your statement. I would argue there is NO WAY that big Bob told Krall to extend Bell if Krall was totally opposed to it. Not buying. What do you know that we all don’t know?
Chris, because it is totally out of character but it is well within the character of the Castellini clan. NK said before this season that winning was a part of player development in the minors. After years and years of crappy minor league teams, the last I checked all but one of the Reds MILB teams have winning records.
Just as the most recent example: the trade for Moll is looking really good. Why did Buddy Bell resign in the spring? And why when we find out about it in July, and a couple of days later son David is extended for 3 more years? Doesn’t this seem odd to you given ownership’s history.
Nick Krall has demonstrated nothing other than competency. David Bell does not strike me as a manager he would stick his neck out for. Wouldn’t it make sense to let the season play out before offering Bell a 3-year extension? Given his history of lack of success. No, I think Bob & Phil stuck Krall with Bell and told him to deal with it and I’m near certain Nick will overcome it.
This is very young team, take Votto off the roster and the Reds the youngest team in the major leagues. They are learning and at times it’s going to be painful. But it’s the process, try to enjoy it for what it is. Look at the meltdowns of the Rays, Marlins and Diamondbacks since ASB. Let’s consider Baltimore’s development from last year to this year be a guide for our young Reds.
Krall is probably more upset than we are about this idiotic extension but what do we expect him to do? Go the press and complain about it? He knows who writes the checks.
Fwiw,..I concur, Chris. GMs hire and fire managers,..like AD Directors hire and fire college coaches. It’s spelled out in their job description. It’s their jobs. Then the owner(s), or college(s), hold the ADs and GMs responsible for their decisions. That is the chain of command. Everyone knows that, Pete,…except for you. Sorry. I hope that doesn’t bum you out too much. Sometimes the truth hurts. And unless you know for a fact (and have proof) that the Castellinis hired Krall for a job, and then did not let him do his job and decided to do it for him,… then it’s pretty obvious who made the decision to give Bell the extention. Your nose only goes so far when you are talking about chain of command. Again,..sorry.
No way did the unnecessary final approval of the three year extension of the manager during the season come from the GM. That came from the principal owner, Bob Castellini, who appointed the GM to his job.
Bug if you every hope to hit a curve ball you need to learn to read the stitches on the ball.
Who has a better chance of landing the next job in baseball that is a promotion – Krall or Bell?
Krall tells another team – look what I did with the Reds, Bell says the same thing – who do you hire? Who will leave the Reds first, and under what circumstances?
Factor that into the analysis of ownership’s role in Bell’s extension.
We’re not talking about “final approval”, TR. We’re talking about the hire. The GM hires and fires the manager (it’s in his job description),..usually after final approval from the owner. I doubt Krall could do it without final approval from the owner, just like I doubt Castellini did it without the decision of the GM. That’s normally how it works. I guess the one thing we can agree on is that it was a mistake to give him the extension. And what was that about reading the stitches on a baseball, Pete? I had no trouble hitting the curve or the fastball. Now we don’t all have the nose for sniffing out deals like you do,..but some of us can hit a curveball. And some of us know whose job description it is to hire and fire the manager,..like we know who has the final approval.
P.S.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpstyiVtiHs
Wonder why they would interview Krall about Bell’s extension, when (according to Pete) he had nothing to do with that decision. It was a surprise to Krall (just like it was to the rest of us),..right Pete? 🙂
Bug: what do you expect him to say?? Notice he didn’t say the word “I” as in “I” extended him because…… . It was an “organizational “ decision which I take to infer as ownership made the decision.
No other GM would have extended Bell before the end of the season, guys with Bell’s history don’t get this type of extension. If NK did make the decision and the team totally melts down, his job and reputation should be in tatters.
So according to your post, the GM is not part of the “organization” then. The General Manager has nothing to do with who hires and fires the manager or who negotiates his contract. Okay,..that being the case, I get it now. However, I do wonder what the GM’s role is then? I’m trying to learn here, Pete. 🙂
Actually, I think you are. It’s not going real fast but you’re getting there. Hang in there grasshopper.
Let’s end the conversation here, and just hope for the best that somehow David Bell comes through for us. I don’t think the Reds are in the playoffs regardless but hopefully they’re not 10 games out of first place by the end of the year. This is my greatest fear. I think we can agree. That would be an epic failure.
P.S.
Btw,..Krall did NOT say it was an “organizational” decision in this interview. You said that, Pete. Not Krall. I suspect Krall proposed and negotiated the extension (and is responsible for those decisions), and the Castellinis gave the final approval. That’s the way it normally works. And as manager, Bell makes the decisions on the field, and is responsible for those decisions. And they are all part of the “organization”, Pete. Sorry to bum you out.
One, the first Bell extension happened during another late season meltdown in 2021. Why is it surprising they chose now to do it? Two, are we going to give Krall credit for the good but not that bad? He sat idle at the deadline. Now we are seeing the results of that. We rode the Elly lightning bolt and it has vanished. They are back to swinging for the fence (16 of last 18 runs are via HR). The team had won in spite of David Bell and the proof is in the pudding. All that extension shows is that ownership is ok w being competitive and nothing more. They have a weird philosophy w the bullpen using 5 guys a night 1 inning at a time. David Bell does not push back or shift blame to ownership. That being said, he is now on contract number 3 in 4.5 years.
I concur, Justin. Bad decision makers up and down the line. Krall made some great trades, but he also messed up royally with the Bell extensions. The Castellinis are cheapskates, no doubt about that. It’s their right to be, as they own the team. But I do wish they would put the team up for sale,..which they surely will not do now that we have a good young nucleus. We will have to win in spite of Bell’s managing. Nothing new there. That’s always been the case since he’s been here. Oh well.
Justin, I know you’re probably not going to like to hear this, but the team is so young that the chance they are going to make the playoffs are anywhere from slim to none.
Obviously a good trade wasn’t available. And neither of us can prove a negative. We do know though the one trade that was made looks to be very favorable as we have been accustomed to in Nick Krall’s regime. As it’s been true in the Castellini era, blood is thicker than water. This is a sad fact, and something all of us are going to have live with unfortunately. I thought perhaps we could break the spell this year if we do have another epic meltdown. But the truth is we are stuck with David Bell for three more years and probably much longer than that regardless of the results. Hope I’m wrong but history is not on our side.
Here I was happy for Votto, in that he would make the playoffs in his last season for the Reds. That’s going down in flames. Cubs got The Mets and Brewers got The Rockies next series. Reds better hope they sweep the Marlins.
I feel awful for Votto. I can’t see the team even finishing above .500 as the injuries pile up and plate discipline disappears.
How do you feel awful for someone hitting barely at the Mendoza line? Isn’t that part of the problem? Everybody sure thought it was with Aquino, who was also HR or nothing.
What is Votto’s OPS? What kind of boomer complains about batting average with an OPS over 800? You’re really Marty aren’t you?
What kind of boomer talks about OPS when a player has 0.2 WAR in 38 games?
See how you can do that with any stat you want?
Like it or not, batting average is relevant. Especially when a good part of the reason for the higher OPS is walks, of a guy who is slow and clogs the bases on a team that relies on speed and taking the extra base.
Don’t misunderstand, I’m not taking the position that Votto is the problem. I just take issue with your attack on someone who referred to batting average acting like OPS is the hip new stat that proves him wrong. OPS is an older stat, and really just an amalgam of the traditional slash line that so called “boomers” use.
I’m guessing you thought the Brewers would win their series with the Pirates and the Braves would take series at Cubs, but it doesn’t always work that way.
Also thought the Reds would sweep the Nats.
I would peel the layers down even further with Votto.
Hes a good power hitter against RH pitching. Thats it.
He did have a nice walk yesterday against a tough lefty but the numbers suggest he is a 1 trick pony. Specifically, he doesnt hit lefties well. Hes one of the slower runners in baseball. Hes poor defensively and while his homers do significantly elevate his overall OPS, its coming from 2 homers a week. The BA and OBP are poor. Votto with a .300-ish OBP???Say it aint so.
I hope the Reds and Votto can figure out away in September to honor him with a JV appreciation day. I hope he hits another 10-12 homers this year. i hope the fans get a day to celebrate him.
Reds dont have a playoff roster of winning players.
Greene and Lodolo and India and Stephenson – the 4 core players coming into this season…are injured or bad and thats been the case for months.
Young guys are going to have their ups and downs but overwhelmingly the best players on this team are 1st and 2nd year players. The trajectory is still overwhelmingly up.
Nats have some talent and Reds are now at a point they need to start swapping young prospects or young mlb guys for major league guys.
Id trade CES and Richardson and/or Petty for lane Thomas and Kyle Finnegan plus whatever prospects balance it out.
Thomas is an everyday OF to add to Friedl, Benson, and Fraley. Finnegan is a dominant controlled releiver. Spencer Steer is a good hitter but not a great defender at any position. Put him at 1b in 2024 and leave him there. Hes been good there. Marte comes in at 3b/DH
Trade India for pitching.
This roster needs proven hitters and pitchers.
OS> I don’t agree with moving CES but even if the deal went through your way, then you have to choose between Benson and Fraley or the team is right back in the same mess of having the bench hamstrung by the need to support 2 LH hitters who require a platoon partner.
I will grudgingly admit that platooning can work with 1 guy from each side and matching them as partners; but, 2 from the same side kills the bench because it means 2 bench spots for the alternate partners. There just aren’t enough opportunities vs LH pitching to make that worthwhile.
Keep CES because once he is acclimated, he will be platoon proof. Maybe Steer and additional mid to low level prospects would be the way to go.
Need both righties and lefties and Reds dont have a righty OF. Reds need 4 every day OF. Desperately need a Righty. Castellanos was great hitter but bad fielder. Lane Thomas would be an everyday RF.
there’s no such thing as .900 OPS every day OF without handedness unless you get Ronald Acuna.
Why is CES platoon proof but Steer isn’t? One rookie doing well and leading the team in offensive categories and the other has shown no power yet. So trade the guy that has produced so far and keep the other because of AAA numbers? I’ll keep that guy that has produced.
What do you say how about we let Nick handle it?
What do you say about an organization thats made the playoffs 3 times in 21 years?
What does this have to do with Nick Krall.
He’s 0 for 5. Great prospects is all dandy and swell, but they were saying and predicting the same thing about the White Sox 3-4 years ago
0-5? He took over in 2021…
You are right OS. Hate to do this but look at the rebuilding Cubs who started their rebuild the same time we did. I am not saying they are better than us but I do like their mix of players. They have exciting young players in Hoerner, Morel, and Wisdom but they also have vets that they have signed or traded for in Bellinger, Swanson, Stroman and Gomes. Think we have the edge in youth but we are way behind in the vets. And not extremely big $ vets but average to above average guys. $15-20M guys. Not a Stroman fan but the other 3 guys are having career years. The non trade of Bellinger at the deadline may be the Executive of the Year move. We know Krall would have given up on the playoffs and moved Bellinger for prospects. And this may actually turn out to be a Reds blessing …..for 2024-2025. But for now, the Cubs are attempting to makeup 6-8 games in the standings and compete for the Central. Fans in Chi town see hope and excitement and are packing the stands. No one knows how this is going to end but you can almost bet the Labor Day series will have 20,000 Cub fans in town. Will kind of be a forum on Krall. Who will have the the most passionate fans? The team in first place on August 1 or the team making a last minute decision not to trade its vets for prospects and try to make a run. We will certainly have the revenge factor on our side.
The problem is its the same ol style of play we have seen the last 4 years. The bullpen is overworked and cashed out by late summer. They were like watching paint dry until EDC was brought up. Now he has settled in, here we are again. The most positive thing im taking away from this year is that its obvious we are a manager away from being consistently good. The problem is we are stuck for 3 more years. At this point I cannot understand any Reds fan honestly justifying David Bell being extended. He just aint it. It was also a clear message to fans.
There is still hope for the season. Remember, September’s schedule is packed with cupcake team like….the Nationals.
Gulp.
Nothing really epitomizes this team’s lack of situational awareness than Steer’s last three at-bats.
Last night, after watching McLain walk in front of him, he swung at the first pitch and grounded into a game-ending double-play, with his team down by four runs. Why is he swinging?
Less than 24 hours later, he’s pinch hitting to lead off the 7th inning with his team down by a couple runs. He looks at a pitch several inches outside, then one in the dirt, and then grounds out to shortstop on a borderline pitch low and away. Why is he swinging?
Then, with two runners on base in 9th, down by three runs, he watches strike three right down the middle. Why isn’t he protecting the plate?
Steer is obviously not the problem with this team — he’s been fantastic all year — but his lack of situational awareness in all three of those situations is just SO typical of David Bell’s teams. Steer is young, but he’s in the major leagues. It really shouldn’t take more than about 15 minutes to cover basic principles such as “when you should definitely take a pitch” and “when you should definitely not take a pitch.” I don’t think Bell has ever bothered talking to anyone about that, because he just thinks his guys should be given the freedom to do as they please. If he has talked to them about it, he’s either given them the wrong message or they’re completely ignoring it. In any case, it’s not good.
And, as I mentioned in the game thread: Lane Thomas had as many sacrifice flies today as most Reds have had all season. He has roughly the same number of sac flies this year as today’s Reds’ starting lineup. Is it really just a coincidence that Bell happens to have a bunch of guys on his roster, year after year after year, who don’t seem to know how to put the ball in play when it’s important to put the ball in play? I have a hard time believing it’s a coincidence.
I like Steer a lot and he’s a keeper, but his bonehead ABs at times are definitely lack of coaching as you described. This team needs a real “players coach” helping them to improve. Why can’t the org seem this?
I’ve I heard every commercial break it’s “see the ball hit the ball”. Maybe he should “see the ball not swing the bat until it’s a strike”.
We can sit here until the cows come home picking at everybody’s at bats. Steer is still the best player on the team with McLain.
@ J – I agree 100%.
Another scenario is when we get a runner to second base with nobody out. The idea, of course, should be to get a hit, but try to get the hit toward the right side so that if you don’t get the hit, you at least advance the runner over to third base.
Of course, the pitcher is trying to get the batter out, without allowing the runner to advance to third, so the pitcher will often pitch a right handed batter inside, to make it tough on the hitter to hit the ball to the right side. In that case, the hitter has to be patient and not swing at inside pitches. However, I’ve seen Reds hitters, including Steer, in that scenario, try to pull that inside pitch, in effect doing exactly what the pitcher wants him to do.
The Reds routinely fail to play baseball with sound strategy.
As much as these guys strike out I would just be happy with them putting the ball in play to possibly advance a runner. During the win streak I felt like they were getting there. Now its been a total regression.
Steer and his approach after the 1st 2 hitters went the other way shows what seems to be the mentality of these hitters now. The younger ones are going for the Homer. When the steak started they were driving balls and did not care much for the power.
I’m sure they are not trying to do it all the time. But when they needed to keep the inning going and you had the 1B leaving a huge hole on the right. The pitcher is throwing it out there. Why are you trying to pull pitches. Or hit a Homer. You have power sure. But you’re not a pure power hitter who can just do that.
Also Senzel had been horrible for 3 months now. Hitting under 200 and not contributing at all. Yet he gets hit higher in the lineup than Benson.
I mentioned in the game thread before the 9th that I can’t remember a player driving the ball into the opposite field gap in a long time. That is a tell tell sign that players are pull happy and trying to hit the long ball. It leads to a lot of lazy pop flies and roll over grounders
Senzel has been horrible for four years.
Ha! I was about to say the same. I have no idea why we didn’t trade him. His value was never higher than at the all start break.
Truth
I can deal with the ups and downs of a young team, particularly after enduring the 2022 season.
It’s the three year extension of Bell that has me the most depressed.
It’s hard to imagine sitting through 3 more years of him.
Even during the 67 game win streak the guy was bumming me out.
I need an intervention.
I know the feeling. lol
Melvin, we all understand or at least nearly all of us. We are stuck with David Bell. That’s a fact I’m going to have to learn to live with it. I am very optimistic that enough talent will be put on the team that the Reds will not fail in spite of David Bell. At least I believe that is the game plan. Nick Krall and we are stuck with Bell. People should stop blaming the one guy who can see this through. If he leaves, we are back to the wilderness.
We agree about the extension. Somebody played that like a drum. Father Buddy’s resignation was leaked to the national press and during the ensuing uproar, the extension was announced. Whoever planned it all must have been a big fan of ‘House oF Cards; or ‘Suits’ or both. Look for Buddy to be back on an “as needed” part time basis NLT spring training.
The Reds front office often, and likes to, play the fans for fools.
I love a good conspiracy theory, Jim, and that’s a good one.
Reds’ fans deserve better than this organization.
So do the players.
At least the Bell extension will give some of you a reason to complain over and over again about for the same thing for the next three seasons, no matter how good or bad the Reds perform.
And it gives some people a reason to keep supporting the manager no matter how badly he manages. We’re all winners!
I just want to know who actually makes the analytics decision to have Cruz bat first.
I understand the thought of it. But not the constant applying of it.
Eric Davis was tried at lead off for the same obvious reasons. It might have been in 85.
It did not last long. He struggled in 84-85 a lot. Back when SO at leadoff was not tolerated. It didn’t take long to figure that one out. They don’t really like it that much now but it’s tolerated more. If you get on base more consistently.
I imagine the longer this goes that this will change. But I can count on Bell being obtuse.
Well, I said I would return to RLN after 5 o’clock to check on the carnage! Not surprised by today’s outcome! We essentially started Weaver 2.0!
Bullpen was OK with only 2 runs allowed!
In closing, congratulations are in order for D. Bell and company for extending the current losing streak to 6 games AND allowing the Stupid Cubs to move into 2nd place in the NL Central Division!
For those keeping count, the Reds are 3-7 SINCE Bell’s contract extension! Just Sayin’!
And 0-6 since Krall and ownership showed their commitment to the team at the deadline. As Bell said, “we know what we have.” And let’s see, we have pitched Maile twice, and a AA pitcher once in6 lousy days. But all these studs will be here in a couple of weeks. They better be something really special because we are going to need it.
Bell has no sense of urgency AT ALL. I heard him pregame and all he kept saying was a very monotone… you can’t change the process….it is what it is…. every team goes through it blah blah blah. Yes, all teams do go through streaks. However, not all streaks are equal. Coming home after dropping three brutally played losses in Chicago when you had a chance to put your foot on their throat was pretty bad if you are really a contender, but to follow that fiasco by starting the homestand 0-3 vs crappy Washington at the beginning of probably the softest two week stretch of the remaining schedule is truly horrendous. At this point in the season the next series with Miami is likely THE inflection point as to how this season will play out. You either start playing much better starting tomorrow night and take advantage of the schedule the next 11 games and get momentum back on your side, or you do what they did today and watch your playoff chances go down the drain.
By the way, having a five year vet in Senzel complaining to Bell about his playing time when you are starting a huge series in Chicago after playing well in LA is definitely related to this 6 game swoon of playing bad baseball…not a coincidence. Senzel selfishly putting himself above the team’s success at such a crucial point in the season is just about the most selfish thing a player can do. Yet somehow Bell made the astounding decision to then start Senzel 5 of the next 6 games…all bad losses where the team played really poorly overall. It’s definitely not a coincidence the team has played terrible baseball starting with the 1st game he started in Chicago after taking his selfish gripes to Bell and getting REWARDED FOR IT.
I can promise you a good manager would not have handled that situation anywhere close to the way Bell did. If you think the Senzel situation didn’t have a negative effect on the locker room and that has seeped into their play on the field I don’t know what to tell you. Players aren’t stupid, they know the Senzel drama was BS and also know their manager rewarded him for it at the expense of the team’s success that they have been busting it for all year. I’m sure the Bell defenders will be out in force…can’t wait to hear the excuses.
What do you think Lou would have done with the Senzel situation? haha
I hear you…and also am dismayed and disappointed. We are definitely pointed in the wrong direction at present. I hope we turn around — and soon!
Senzel hit 0.143 in June and 0.130 in July.
Not exactly making an argument for increased playing time.
Bell, lack of managerial skills, Krall’s failure at the pre and player deadline, the team ‘s inability to play sound fundamental baseball, and ownership lack of commitment to win now window approach led to this demise.
Lane Thomas will be 28 in a few weeks and is controlled til 2026. Dude would hit 35 for the Reds easy. Their park is huge.
OS is right, they should make a serious run at him. Krall would have to cut into his precious supply of prospects, but they need some guys in their prime with all this youth and Thomas will be a older FA by the time they’re halfway good again. It makes sense both ways. Colorado would probably love to have Freidl in CF or KC. Make it happen while we can afford this core group of youngsters!
Reds need an every day right handing hitting OF. CES would be the principal in that….Grab Finnegan too and trade some A pitching. Thomas and Finnegan are future AS! Nats arent winning anytime soon. Time to reshape this roster with MLB players.
The Reds have been outplayed over the last 13 games (even during the 4 wins), including the 6-game losing streak! The teams we have played in the last 4 series (Brewers, Dodgers, Cubs & Nationals) have better pitching, more disciplined hitters and more experienced pitchers! AND all of those teams have far superior managers!
But, but, but the players love playing for Bell and that’s what truly matters, Right?
If the prized rookies are not performing then we are what we were last year. There is no expectation that the team would do well this year until the rookies gave us 4 months of winning baseball. But if they are hitting the proverbial rookie wall collectively, this team is losing as expected. Can MM, EDLC, and CES become the 3,4,5 hitters for years to come? They have potential which leads to hope.
This same team went 9-1 vs Baltimore, Houston, and Texas. Plus won the season series vs LA. Hard to believe
8-1 rather
But,But,But I swear I read that if we just bring up CES we would never lose another game for at least the next few years.
Ha! Yes, ALL the saviors are here now. Well, I guess now we start pining for Marte or Collier or Arroyo and two new drafted pitchers. THEN, we’ll be rolling! 🙂
It’s a whole lot better than before these guys got here so yeah I want to see the rest too.
So you were happy with Newman playing all the time earlier?
The Reds are not losing because they can’t hit, it’s because they can’t pitch.
They pitched well against the Brewers.
The bats were silent. That’s what started all of this.
It’s home run or bust.
That’s a between the ear issue (the hitting), not an ability issue.
Haven’t been hitting either lately — all or nothing approach. Not the approach that got them into first place (those were the days!).
Every player in the bigs has the physical ability. Its all between the ears my friend. There isnt a strong presence in the clubhouse and its rearing its ugly head now. David bell does not even make eye contact with players when they make a mistake. We need him to lead and shake it up. Its too late to change who he is now, so adjusting hitters approaches etc isnt going to happen. We just have to hope our roster is good enough to overcome his deficiencies in the next three years.
@Justin, Fair enough, I think I was making the point that we score against most every other team, but we have trouble against our rival Brewers, not about hitting as a whole.
I disagree. since the All star break this team has not hit very well, and certainly isn’t hitting outside of the occasional HR. July saw a 3rd ranked starting staff in all of baseball, so no pitching hasn’t been the biggest problem.
Avg runs per game on the year for the Reds 4.85, runs per game after the Brewers series where they just collapsed, 4.75. That’s a 20 game stretch thats where they are scoring 0.10 runs less per game, than they did in the 1st half.
It’s the pitching, not the hitting. We hoped and prayed that Lively, and Weaver could get us wins, but these are not MLB pitchers. This also had the secondary effect of wearing out the pen.
Bring back Myers!
How many games will the Reds be out of first place when Lodolo and Greens come back?
I would have thought Krall’s gamble would have cost us 3-4 games. Not having a suitable substitute for Weaver for 3-4 games. Maybe 1-2 games out of first when Greene returns. But interim, the situation has become compounded because of Lively’s injury and Abbotts short starts. Further loading of the bullpen too. Just further reason in my mind that Krall should have been better prepared and added here. Maybe a #3 and #4 starter …..both rentals costing you mid level prospects. A little insurance or buffer in case of a delayed return and or short term injury. Problem now is we may be more than 1-2 out…..maybe 3-4 with a tighter window. But I am not telling anyone something that Krall didn’t consider. The real glitch in his plan though is the possibility of over estimating Greene and Lodolo contributions. Can they each give us 4-5 quality starts and 3-4 wins? Because we may need to go 25-15 to recapture our playoff spot. A couple4-5 game win streaks starting anytime.
It’s pretty simple we’ve scored 553 runs, 2nd in the Central, and 4th in the NL. We have given up 582 the most in the Central, and 2nd worst in the NL. We don’t need to trade for more hitting, we need pitching!
We can not go into 24 assuming that Greene, and Lodolo will be healthy, and productive. Sign a Urias, Snell, Giolito, or dare I say it Othani, and sign the best closer on the market, Hader. Depending on the starter you sign we’d be adding $45M – $65 to sign one of these guys along side Hader. That would put the payroll in the $80M – $100M range. The rotation, and bullpen would both have that veteran leader that this team is missing.
Well Lane Thomas would only cost prospects. They could sign a big starter like Snell, but big $ on a reliever is overkill imo. There is a good high reliever or 2 somewhere in all these young arms? I’m thinking Lodolo
Rotation of Snell, Ashcraft, Greene, Abbott, and Lowder. Lodolo and Diaz on the backend with Williamson as the long man/spot starter. Sign one vet reliever with Cruz, Gibaut, Sims, Moll, and Young.
I don’t think signing someone like Hader is overkill. The game has changed with starters going 6 innings at best, at least on average. Gotta have 3 if not 4 shutdown bullpen arms.
INdy, so now you want to make Lodolo a reliever? LOL
Do you seriously believe the Reds are going to be adding $45 to $65 million dollars in payroll this winter?
Do you seriously believe the Reds will add $45 to $65 Million to the payroll in 2024?
No, but that’s what they should do.
MBs agree
what will our payroll be going into 2024. Votto comes off. Do we have anyone over 10 mill on the payroll?
I hear you and am with you (with the exception of Ohtani– who will cost WAY more than what he’s worth.) But I doubt it will happen.
Othani is more than just a fun idea, he’s the biggest value in baseball, and the biggest risk in baseball.
Hits like Judge $40M AAV
Pitches like deGrome $37M AAV
That’s $77M AAV, but he’ll probably sign for $50M AAV, $27M under his value if he were actually 2 people. Now if tragedy were to happen a team like the Reds can’t absorb that loss, only probably 4 or 5 teams could. If the contract could be 5 years, I’d make that gamble, but it’ll probably be 7 or more years. That’s a long time to roll the dice.
You are correct about that needs to happen.
There are a lot of problems but as far as this season goes this has to be the draw a line in the sand week. Host the Marlins for 3 and 3 in Pittsburgh, I think they need to go 4 and 2 to get back in this thing. 3 and 3 might allow them to hang on but not sure. Anything worse and it’s time to look to 2024 and shut down Abbott. I have know idea how it will go but I don’t like the chances, I see 3 and 3 at the best most likely 2 and 4 or worse which will put this season to bed. They could be .500 this time next week, man would that be an epic collapse. Let’s hope Bell finds a way to turn things around. Don’t hold your breath.
They might need to shut down Abbott regardless. Hasn’t looked good in the two starts since they pushed him against the Brewers.
We are definitely at a crucial point.
These last three games the Nats were playing like a team chasing a playoff berth and needing wins while the Reds were more like a lackadaisical last place team going through the motions waiting for the end of the season. Nats were doing everything they could to win including using Finnegan in all three games. The Reds will win again, even if it doesn’t seem like it right now. There will be better days and this stretch, as bad as it has been, will end. But I cannot help thinking, at least management, has already moved on to next year based on the lack of action at the trade deadline.
Waiting for a leader in the clubhouse to hide the Viking gear until a homer ties it up, takes the lead, or tacks on.
I wish they would just lose that myself. I didn’t even like it when we were winning.
Yes, we were less than inspiring.
And I agree on the helmet/cape thing. Put it to rest unless it matters. HRs are not the be-and-end-all. I wish MLB would stop pretending it is.
coming into the season, the worst nightmare would be the Reds not playing good enough to make the playoffs, but playing just good enough to get Bell an extension….it may end up that way if they don’t turn it around….nightmare in progress
Right now I almost wish they were on a pace to lose 95 or so, at least that might have gotten rid of Bell, but probably not.
As a lifetime fan all I can do is give my opinion and trust the newly extended Manager David Bell will inspire this young team to not fall out of contention for the playoffs.
I could not agree with that statement more. I said the same thing when the season started, if we can just get rid of him I would accept a bad season and next year is a new day. But here we are.
Let this be a lesson to all of the silly schedule watchers here that predict wins based on who we are playing now, or next month, or who the Cubs/Brew are playing.
The Reds beat teams they probably shouldn’t and they lose to teams with worse records all the time.
It didn’t work for you soothsayers back in 2021 and it’s not working now.
You play 1 game per day, and that’s all that matters. There are no guarantees about tomorrow’s game are next week’s/month’s game.
It’s just wasteful conversational dribble IMO.
Don’ worry, we have Bell leading us, just like 2021….so we have that
Correct, sir.
So true. I remember people saying the same thing in 2021.
Guilty as charged, but good teams do usually handle bottom feeders.
Yeah it doesn’t matter who you play in August/September if you’re not playing well. The Reds beat a lot of great teams this year, but I think they’ll lose a lot of games to Pittsburgh, St. Louis Detroit down the stretch if they don’t get out of the funk they’re in.
The season has been pretty up and down overall all around the league. It’s pretty interesting how streaky so many teams have been. That run differential though does have some truth behind it. I think the Cubs and Padres were better than their record all year and it’s just reflecting more in their record.
It does make you respect the 162 games of an MLB season. The best team really do make the playoffs in the end, not the ones who were hot a week or two.
I think the Reds chances are super slim to make it now…two 6 game losing streaks in a few week span is not a good sign of a team that’s going to hang around. It’s a little shocking with how much momentum they just recently had, but probably a lot of factors going into the current collapse. I think the confidence is starting to fade of being able to flip a switch and turn it around, and now key players like Fraley who have been huge all year are injured.
I feel like the Reds lack leadership overall. You can see the impact Dansby Swanson has on the Cubs, a World Series winner playing SS. As much as I love the Reds young talent, it would be nice to add a guy like that maybe in the offseason somewhere in the lineup, or a Starting Pitcher who has won in the playoffs, World Series etc.
There’s 8 weeks of baseball to go before the playoffs. India, who I regard as the team leader, is just about ready to come back. He should be in leadoff position and EDLC should bat fifth or lower. Hopefully Hunter Greene is making progress in his rehab and also Lodolo. Moll is a good addition to the bullpen. All is not lost to make the playoffs.
Putting India back at leadoff seems like an automatic no brainer and dropping Elly to 5-6-7 seems automatic also considering the propensity to strike out, but I’ll believe it when I see it because I don’t trust David Bell to do many things that make sense. He seems to get ideas about the batting order in his head that he gets stuck on and then he just ignores the actual factual evidence as to how it’s working out and just sticks with it regardless for a longgg time.
Melvin raises an issue above, which is something I’ve been thinking about lately. The Reds organization seems to make a lot of decisions based on an assumption that the fan base is somewhat, shall we say… slow in our heads.
As a glaring example: there was just no rational reason to extend Bell three years. If for some reason it actually made sense to extend him without knowing how the season would turn out, give him another year. Two at the most. Why three? It simply didn’t make any sense from a baseball (or business) perspective.
Many of Bell’s decisions don’t make sense, either. Even most of his supporters will acknowledge he often does things that defy any logical explanation.
Then you’ve got decisions like dumping Miley to avoid paying his $10 million salary, and turning around and trading for Mike Minor and his $10 million salary. It didn’t make any sense from a baseball (or business) perspective. Neither did the three catcher roster, or signing Weaver, or continuing to let Weaver pitch long after it was apparent that he was bad.
Then we’ve got the lack of serious trades with the Reds in first place, when all the other first place teams (and many second and third place teams) were able to find much more significant deals to increase their chances. We’re supposed to believe Krall was just much smarter and savvier than all the other GMs? Come on.
Also… the TV crew. I mean… seriously? Of all the people who would love to have those jobs, Larkin and Sadak are the best they can come up with? We’re all supposed to love listening to Larkin because he’s a legend, and Sadak because he’s so enthusiastic? Most of us are forced to turn off the sound or watch a different broadcast because it’s so annoying listening to their nonsense.
The organization seems to assume the fan base (and media) will just mindlessly accept all this. Unfortunately, I’m afraid they might be right.
Exactly, the Reds front office markets the team to a bunch of old women and casual fans who think whoever puts on a Reds uniform is a great player.
It must pay off for them because they do it year after year. They even tell them that Reds have no chance at all of winning and they still buy tickets.
The Reds are 8.5 games ahead of the last place Cardinals. I think the Reds will avoid last place, but I’m not convinced they have third place secured.
Reds are 4 games over 500 with 48 to go and I don’t have an answer to fix the problem.Pitching was bound to go and it has quickly but the hitting or the lack of hitting and the defense has surprised me.Hitters are now home run or punch out and just aren’t adjusting.Two hits to right in the ninth and a line out to right to end it were good even though I don’t know if it was because all 3 were late on the fastball or actually were trying to go that way.I have no clue if the third base coach is actually giving the take sign but I would suggest there are times that it is the right thing to do.Walks are good things but we seem to be more inclined to swing 2-0 then make the pitcher throw a strike.Maybe a hit and run would help the hitter focus on going the other way.Just doing the same thing it appears and well it isn’t working.Hitters just aren’t doing what they once were and it appears everybody is trying to hit a homer rather then just getting on base.For some a walk is pretty much like a double.Right now if we had pitchers back off the IL then they would pretty much have to throw a shutout for us to win.The Nats staff actually made us look like bad.
David Bell should ban the silly home run celebrations until this team gets back on track. Any player putting on silly hats and mugging for the camera during a six game losing streak should be fined and yes that includes Joey Votto.
I would like to see a leader in club emerge and do away with it. Is losing fun? Sometimes it sure looks like it.
I was thinking about that 2-0 thing myself the other day. Steer today for example. It was a 2-0 strike on the outside corner, but why swing at a pitchers pitch? These sorry umps could easily miss the call or worse case scenario its 2-1 and you’re still ahead. Thats a simple common sense attempt at trying to produce the proper approach at the plate
I’m talking about a Bell ordered take on 2-0 in some scenarios. Steer leadoff = yes. McLain with 2nd/3rd and 1 out = no
Sure and every 2-0 pitch is not an automatic take as you said below it does depend on the situation and who is at the plate.Reds are just not playing sound baseball in any aspect.Guys slump at the plate on the mound and even in the field at times cause its a long season.What concerns me is its just not a player or two or three at the plate its a bunch of them.NIne runs scored in 3 games,eight on homers,double digit punch outs against 3 starters that aren’t good.Corbin who leads the league in hits allowed allows 4,3 of them solo homers in almost 7 innings.Its so obvious its swing and swing harder for our guys.Where is the coaching?
Oh yeah right there sums up what’s going on at the plate. Batters up 2-0 must be required to swing because they always do.
Tough for these young Reds right now. It is what it is, Reds always will have injuries, happens every year. Seems Reds have more injuries than the average team in the MLB. They do have alot of depth in the infield and outfield. But they do not have depth in starting pitching and the bullpen. Teams have adapted to the Reds….we knew this was coming. Can these young Reds adapt back? Its all about adjustments in sports, where MLB, NFL, or NBA.
The move I did with my wife and DD#1, the series with the Stupid Cubs and Nats, and some other stuff going on all rate a major STINK!!! FISH!!! POT!!!!!!!!!!
You assume Krall had an absolutely free hand in everything. I seriously doubt that’s the case given the history of the BobPhil Monster. Seriously doubt it.
Let’s be honest about the Moll trade. They acquired him because he is controllable next year. If we suck next year, they’ll trade him.
He’s controllable for four years, isn’t expensive, and they wouldn’t get much in return. He’s actually the sort of pitcher they’re extremely likely to keep. If they’re looking to trade someone for prospects, it’s more likely to be an expensive veteran free agent they’ll sign in the off-season. Or perhaps Diaz if they think someone else is ready to step into that role.
No rules. It can happen. …
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/38147621/ex-white-sox-reliever-keynan-middleton-rips-club-no-rules-culture
So a lack of consequences for players
who don’t try to improve their skills could hurt a team’s performance? Interesting. I wonder if that’s ever happened anywhere other than Chicago.
As far as the Reds are concerned, it screams the need for a team captain or co-captains. Somebody to hold players accountable in the clubhouse. It doesn’t appear to be any evidence of it coming from the manager. Because the same mental mistakes keep happening over and over.
Pfff tough series to swallow, no timely hitting and worse plate discipline than before.
Maybe we miss India more than we would expect. He return is imminent, so maybe things get better. Still a lot of baseball left. No need to give up on the season. There is a lot of negatism again. They have lost six before (all teams go through stretches like this).
True, but now the Cubs are surging. Everyone added pieces but the Reds. They’ve totally gone away from emphasizing obp and running and the pen is worn down to a nub. Other then that…oh and Weaver obviously has blackmail photos
Not making a trade at the deadline for a legit starting pitcher was the wrong message to send. Granted, I don’t know what other teams were asking in return but you have to be bold and send a message to your team management cares.
Speaking of management cares, why on earth do we extend a Manager in July? Don’t do that. Wait until the season ends then decide. I just don’t get it.
Thinking the same thing (last paragraph).
The real wrong message to send to the team was Senzel going to Bell about lack of playing time and then amazingly Senzel starts five of the next six games….which they all lose and look terrible doing it. What other Major League Baseball manager listens to a complaint about playing time from a player and then starts him five the next six games in the middle of a pennant race?
And they just extended this guy for three more years…what a total cluster****.
Many of us are puzzled by the extension of Bell in July, although many expected an extension of a year or two in the offseason. Who knows, maybe another extension will occur before the 2026 season is over. It is what it is unless there’s a change in ownership.
I don’t agree SR. I think that if the Reds did not unexpectedly implode after the trade deadline we would be having few if any angry posts about not making a trade. Team management may indeed be bold and care a lot more if they don’t make any overpay trades for limited SP that was available. We have two starters coming back in time to make a difference and we have at least one waiting in the minors that have a shot to succeed. Then there is next year where we have dollars to spend and can get FA’s, all our rookies will have a year or thereabouts under their belts, without having to give up prospects. All those same prospects will be there after this season if we want to trade them after we better know what we have coming back in Greene and Lodolo. Does is suck that Reds have such rotten luck seemingly year after year when it comes to having lots of injuries? Sure does! We are all aching for a winning team as it has been forever since we had such excitement but my money is on next year for the reasons I mentioned.
I can help with what it would have cost the Reds for an average rental starting pitcher. Please don’t apply exactly. But Lorenzen cost the Phillies their #8 prospect. Flaherty cost the Orioles their #16 and #18 prospect. Both these guys are 500 pitchers with an 4ERA on bad teams. About the same but just cut a different way. For reference Stoudt is the Reds #12 prospect and Hopkins is #16. There are also a couple low A position players in the teens also but these guys aren’t projected to arrive until 2026. Barerro is no longer considered a prospect but would probably fit in the 10 range. You will have to make your own conclusions about whether Stoudt alone or Hopkins and talented low A guy is too much to pay for a 2 month rental of Lorenzen or Flaherty to replace Weaver. Although you might be talking as much as +4-5 in the Win column considering Weavers 8 ERA. Obviously Baltimore and Philly saw the opportunity and pulled the trigger.
I’ve seen it mentioned in a couple comments, but it seems like inserting India into the leadoff spot when he returns is almost a no brainer at this point. And this is coming from the guy who was ready to trade and/or bench him a couple weeks ago (me). I was wrong, at least as it relates to India’s role for this season goes. I think the Reds need him and his energy.
India 1, Friedl (who has hit well lately) 2, and then stack them however you want after that, although Benson should probably move up too.
Elly still leading off, why? I wasn’t a huge fan of India there but now I like that whole lot better.
Bell has an idea about what’s supposed to happen, and nothing that actually happens on the field is going to convince him he’s wrong. One of his major flaws as a manager.
+1,000
Should the Reds really win some playoff games and or championships before Nick Krall is deemed: “competent?”
As someone has mentioned on a thread a few days ago, Krall has seemingly done a good job jettisoning veterans for decent prospects; it seems that the org has drafted well under his auspices; signed potentially impactful international prospects, but he has yet to put together trades that return impactful major leaguers or sign free agents that make a difference.
Competent, naw, that is yet to be seen.
Nick Krall was promoted to General Manager on May 10, 2018
The following is list of trades made since then that returned players with Major League experience:
Tanner Roark
Kyle Farmer
Matt Kemp
Yasiel Puig
Alex Wood
Sonny Gray
Trevor Bauer
Archie Bradley
Jeff Hoffman
Luis Cessa
Justin Wilson
Mychal Givens
Justin Dunn
Jake Fraley
Mike Minor
Kevin Newman
Sam Moll
The off season and the willingness to fill in the holes on the roster.Yes OS said it there are 5 or 6 holes will make us shout for joy or that other thing.Gone will be Joey and Newman,Senzel and others which I love but have no future on this roster.Brighter times or darker days ahead.Hopefully our hitters go back to doing what they were doing and the pitchers that are rehabbing join the club and have some success as we finish the season.It looks dim right now but who knows right now.