The Cincinnati Reds have officially sent right-handed pitcher Hunter Greene on a rehab assignment. He’s “heading” to Arizona to pitch in the Arizona Complex League Reds game tonight. I say “heading” because he’s been there for a while now, doing all of his rehabilitation work at the complex as he works his way back from a hip injury. The team also announced that Casey Legumina, who has been out for a month with a sore shoulder, is moving up to Triple-A Louisville on his rehab assignment that began last week in Arizona.
As for Hunter Greene, he was moved to the 60-day injured list yesterday to make room on the 40-man roster for newly acquired left-handed reliever Sam Moll. That doesn’t change much of anything for Greene, who is expected – if things go as planned – to return to the Reds on August 20th according to The Athetlic’s C. Trent Rosecrans. Greene would be eligible to come off of the 60-day injured list on August 17th, which is before he was expected to return.
Greene last pitched on June 17th when he allowed two runs in 6.0 innings in a win against the Houston Astros. The timing of the injury was unfortunate, as Greene was pitching well – in his last four starts he had a 2.31 ERA in 23.1 innings with 31 strikeouts. On the season the 23-year-old has a 3.93 ERA in his 14 starts with 100 strikeouts in 73.1 innings pitched.
He’s just one of several pitchers on the rehab trail for the Reds. Tejay Antone and Vladimir Gutierrez also began rehab assignments last week, along with Legumina. Both Nick Lodolo and Justin Dunn are in Arizona and working their way back as well, but haven’t officially been moved to rehab assignment status yet because it would start their 30-day rehab clocks.
Tejay Antone pitched in two games in Arizona – throwing a perfect inning with a strikeout the first time out, but giving up three runs on three hits in 0.1 innings the second time around. Vladimir Gutierrez made his first appearance on Friday night in Arizona and threw a hitless inning with two walks and two strikeouts. Casey Legumina followed Gutierrez on the mound that night and threw a hitless inning with a walk.
Using the words “send Hunter Greene” at this time of year made me panic for a micro second.
Agree….lol don’t use that word on the last day of the Trade Deadline. Almost as bad as “Hunter Green acquired by the Bats for rehab assignment”
Great news, glad no setbacks so far. It’s like a trade deadline pickup for free.
Hell yeah! They need the Big Dog Back!
Scared me too. I was looking for trade info and had the same thought.
Except we won’t get our player for three weeks after the deadline. 🙂
Hope for the best. I just took a quick look at the schedule and it’s quite soft, all winnable games now to 8/16. We’ll start a series against Toronto on 8/18, so if Greene comes off injury list on 8/17, he can join the rotation for that series. A series against LÀ Angels starts in 8/21. Greene vs Sho, man that will be show time. Can’t wait.
Think about what Greene would be worth right now at the trade deadline. Getting him back soon is like getting Verlander IMHO. We can win a series against any team with three things in place. The Return of Greene and the BP pieces. Keep the rotation and bullpen healthy. And get a consistently good performance out of this lineup!
Well, not exactly. But I hope that the return of Greene, and maybe Lodolo soon after, means two, fresh strong arms heading into the end of the season, and hopefully the playoffs. Ala Jose Rijo in 1990, who was fresher than the other pitchers and was quite strong.
Guys who have had 25-30 plus starts probably have some tired arms at the end of the regular season.
Who knows, this may all work out for the best for the Reds.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rijojo01.shtml Rijo had 29 starts in 1990 second to to Browning with 35.
That was not a lot of starts back then. Rijo was quite rested with only 8 starts in all of the two months of July and August.
I was hoping he would return a little sooner, but I’ll take the progress. Reds are due for some luck on the injury front, and hopefully it will continue. Getting Lodolo back around the first of September would be nice.
There’s no shortage of talent there – just need him 100% healthy. For the stretch run this year and for 2024 and beyond.
“They tried to make me go to rehab and I said…. Ok.”
I like that rehab talk continues and I ‘ll say no no no but if that’s what it takes to get our horses back healthy we’ll be that much stronger ? for it
Thinking Weaver, Duarte, and maybe Law would be the pieces swapped out today at the deadline or piecemeal when Greene, Antone, and Lodolo are ready.
C’mon Krall, let’s get something done!
Greene August 17 (soonest). Lodolo and Antone (maybe) September.
I am still not convinced Greene or Lodolo are ever going to be healthy enough to be what we want them to be. I view them like our own version of Kerry Wood and Mark Pryor. Yet, if Hunter Greene can get healthy enough to contribute to the stretch run, even as a reliever, it could be enough for the Reds to clinch the division.
I do hope Nick Krall will hedge his bets though, by acquiring another starter.
Who’s left that’s an upgrade over Phillips or Kennedy?
Dylan Cease would be an upgrade
Dylan Cease isn’t available.
I agree with David above. Nick and Hunter can both come back with fresh arms. Neither has had an arm, elbow or shoulder issue. We are talking about a hip and a foot.
When healthy, these two have had stints where they have pitched like Graham is now and would give us 3 guys who have flashed Ace at one point during the past 15 months plus AA to be ready for the playoffs. And during a short season (September and October) they will not be on innings limits, just need to be mechanically sound to stay healthy.
I like how this is coming together and Krall being patient on acquisitions. Do not send Gray for Puig ever again
No arm issue this season but Hunter Greene has already had Tommy John surgery.
I’d say if Krall doesn’t work anything out, lets go ahead and promote Phillips into the Reds rotation.
Ashcraft, Abbott, Lively, Williamson, Phillips
If Greene, and, or Lodolo return we’ll figure it out from there. It would be a welcome change of pace to have too many starters for a rotation.
I think Nick Krall’s failure to acquire a starting pitcher, is a poor reason to promote someone.
It’s not necessarily a reason to promote, but there is cause and effect. The end goal (well, my end goal) is to remove Weaver from the starting rotation AND give us a little depth if Greene and Lodolo don’t come back as expected (or one of the other starters gets injured).
If Krall fails to acquire a starter, I still want Weaver out of the starting rotation.
40-man roster spots will be increasingly tight for the Reds. Given that they were open to adding a starter, it made sense to hold off on promoting Phillips. However, he can simply take Weaver’s roster spot if the Reds believe he’s likely to yield an improvement over Weaver now.
Big difference between Wood and Pryor, but it’s a useful measuring stick. If both are as good as Wood the Reds will be fine – long career, several excellent seasons, many useful seasons.
Pryor had other issues – 3 excellent seasons . . . gone.
Neither may exceed Wood at his very best, but I expect each will have more years of very good performances.
Based on what?
Given the innings count growing for Reds young SP I expect we will see some 6 man pitching rotation when Greene comes back. That could include adding Phillips later if they think he helps put them over the top to reach playoffs.
Mark Prior was given a 211+ inning load as a 22 year old by Dusty Baker as the Cubs were desperately fighting for a playoff spot (which they secured by 1 game). It was essentially double what he pitched the year before, and was too much for his arm. He pitched 3 more injury-plagued years, and that was it.
I don’t see the Reds overworking Lodolo or Greene like that.
Verlander to Astros for a couple of minor leaguers
That stinks, looks like a reasonable price for him, a top 60, and a solid A ball player.
I doubt the Reds will ever have a $40 million a year player on their roster. I could be wrong though.
In this case, Pete, Verlander wouldn’t be that player since the Mets are sending something between $35-53M with him depending on if his 2025 option triggers based on innings pitched next year.
There’s really no other starter known to be on the market that I want Krall to add. I’m not a fan of the Tigers pitchers. Maybe just promote Phillips, and get 1 more reliever.
Verlander has full trade refusal
He wanted Houston and never considered cincinnati so its fantasy to talk about verlander to the Reds .
Exactly.
@Old, it’s fantasy to think you can read minds. I could be wrong, and you read that somewhere, but I haven’t. I also suspect he had a very narrow list of teams that he would consider, in fact in another post over the last week, I’ve mentioned that it would be questionable for him to accept a trade to the Reds. It would all depend on what he thought his chances of winning a WS title would be.
Normally I like your stuff, but if there is one thing that drives me nuts are the people who speak as if their assertions are facts. Maybe I want the Reds to do more than they will, but it is not fantasy. It may not come to fruition, but it’s always based on a possible scenario.
@ MBS – multiple media tweets from the baseball national media(Rosenthal, Morosi,etc) said Verlander top preferred destination was Houston. They reported even the Dodgers didnt feel he would okay a trade to them. Baltimore was a potential mystery third team for Verlander as he is from the East coast. He possessed complete no trade rights and the power to determine where he went and that was the Astros.
The Tigers lefty refused a trade to the Dodgers after it was agreed upon in principle. Players with no trade clauses absolutely pick where they are or arent going and Verlander picked his.
Looks like Lorenzen to Phillies for their #5 overall prospect.
Reds 4/5/6 are CES/Phillips, and Petty. no way Im trading those guys for a 2 month rental.
should say Tigers close to trading….per morosi.
Lorenzen to the Phillies, in the meantime, no starting pitcher help. The clock keep ticking against the Reds who are in dire need of a reliable proven starter…..
I really don’t think so. One more decent reliever would be nice though. Phillies paid a very high price to get his services. Reds will have a plethora of starting pitchers come the off-season. In my opinion, they have enough to get by for the season. We’ll see.
Dire need? Not really.
Pitching has not been the problem for the Reds recently.
I’m not sure where everyone gets this idea that the Reds desperately need a starter. I just don’t see it.
Just not hearing anything about the Reds and what they are even attempting to get for players. Please get someone. I don’t care if he has a 4.50 ERA that’s a lot better than over a 7 ERA with no signs of improving. (Weaver)
‘
There is this guy in Louisville, by the name of Phillips….
Except he walks half the park and they have no idea if he can deal w/mlb hitters. Lorenzen is a vet with 8-9 starts holding them to 1 or less. Idk?
Agreed Pete. Could also mention, with off days the 5th starter could be skipped as needed. Not a bIg deal at all…imo
We have two rookies in the starting rotation and no depth in the minors. We can’t afford to skip the 5th starter much if we want the rookies to finish the year.
Well when Sims gets blasted in a big game or blows a lead in the 7th-8th in the playoffs then just remember the FO took in all this new revenue and did nothing
Sims is solid, but all the real players have 2-3 relievers better then him. Or more
I agree Indy, people seen obsessed with collecting prospects. I mean prospects are nice to have, but if that’s the goal, just trade Elly and get four or five more.
To me the point is to win. Prospects for prospect sake is meaningless. It will be four or five years before Edwin Arroyo makes it to the majors IF he ever makes it. I thought the purpose of acquiring all these shortstops was to trade some of them to fill other needs.
This bullpen is holding on by a thread, but hey we have a guy in A ball that gets good marks from Baseball America.
Reminds me of people that save save save and always talk about the places they’re going to see and then they finally quit working and guess what? They’re either divorced, crippled up, or one of them died and it never happened.
For me, it’s not about hoarding the prospects; it’s about not overpaying at the deadline for marginal, if any, benefit. This is especially important given that Greene and Lodolo are on the mend, AND Phillips is performing well at AAA. Also, four of our starting pitchers have performed very well over the last five weeks. The Reds are not in a position where they had to make additional moves. The players traded at this year’s deadline haven’t been elite. Verlander was not coming to Cincinnati if Houston was an option to him–he had full veto rights over a trade.
I hear you Indy but I’m going to let Krall run the ball club. We all have great ideas I know, but this guy holds all the responsibility and is doing a really good job. No offense.
Brewers acquired another arm (Chafin) while Krall seemingly sits in his hands. Is Moll going to be all there is?
Hope so. Maybe 1 more reliever for arerro or Newman. Would not pay anything more
So all these “prospects” are going to make it including the half that play the same position as our 2 best players? Alrighty then
@ Indy Red Man
If you’re going to trade some of your prospects, it better be for more than a rental. That’s why it makes more sense to do it in the offseason when the price for pitching won’t be quite as inflated as it is now.
Besides, do the Reds really NEED a starting pitcher? Greene will be back in 2 weeks, and that should be the end of the line for Weaver. Then when Lodolo is back, someone else needs to be bumped from the rotation (or maybe they just shut Abbott down).
The point is, while I know Weaver has an ugly ERA, he’s still managing to compete and keep the Reds in most games. He’s fine for another 3 or 4 starts until Greene is ready.
You have a point. We actually need a high leverage reliever (or 2) more then anything and lefty preferred.
The thing is though Weaver has been horrible and Abbott could easily run out of gas. Lodolo is a complete question mark, and Lively has borderline stuff at best. Lets see how Lively looks tonight. I’d love to be wrong, but their lineup is rough
Why would another team give the Reds a useful P for Newman or Barrero?
If will be so disappointing if the Red’s front office once again fails to add talent at the deadline. They did better than this in 2021 and that deadline was underwhelming.
Dylan Cease would be nice.
MTC I agree, but I have a feeling Nick Krall has already moved on from the trading deadline.
One more time, Dylan Cease is not available.
What bullpen piece will be dropped if you trade for another one besides Moll?
Duarte gone.
Who would be next? Farmer???
People keep saying get bullpen help without saying who to get or who departs.
Chapman or Graveman a month ago was when the getting should have been done.
I can answer that from a starting pitcher perspective!
But agree with you on the bullpen. I would need to be a clear upgrade, and i’m not sure who’s left that would be.
Moll has options. Likely that there’s some swapping players back and forth to save some arms. May also be some short IL stints for fatigue or soreness. That’s my guess.
Both Cruz and Law could be upgraded from IMO.
No chance they trade for Moll and option him before he pitches an inning.
But a mysterious IL trip for one of the other relievers is a real possibility.
Hotto is correct, Derek Law and Fernando Cruz could be optioned without hurting the team. I cringe everytime of of them takes the mound.
@Hotto4Votto prepare to be disappointed. I know I am. One trade for a reliever is not going to cut it.
Fernando Cruz has been on fire lately. It would be tough to upgrade him in my mind
Boom Boom Mancini got released by the Cubbies. What happened to him?
Jeimer Candelario happened.
And the wrC+ of 74 probably didn’t help
Yeah cancer didn’t help either, but it seems like he was one of the most underrated hitters in mlb not that long ago
The bad thing about not making moves at the deadline is that our competition is and they will be improving. I hope our returning players can match those improvements.
They are making moves but that doesn’t guarantee they are improving. See Mets, Padres. How much did their moves improve them?
Phils, Astros, Cubs and Brewers look better to me than they were 2 days ago. Just my opinion.
@Tim Brewers made some smart moves to bolster their bullpen and get a little more hit power in their lineup. They really didn’t give up too much talent either. Why can’t the Reds make these kind of trades.
E De La Cruz (S) 3B
N Senzel (R) LF
M McLain (R) SS
S Steer (R) DH
K Newman (R) 2B
C Encarnacion-Strand (R) 1B
T Stephenson (R) C
T Friedl (L) CF
S Fairchild (R) RF
I was sort of close. I had Senzel at 3B with Steer’s struggles and Newman at DH
This Steele kid is like Wade Miley lite, but we did smack him around last time.
facing another lefty tomorrow also
I’m proud of Bell sitting Votto vs the lefty. We’ll see what happens tomorrow though.
I sliced it into the next fairway bunker
Per Rotoworld:
“Jeff Passan of ESPN reports that the Dodgers and Tigers had agreed to a deal for Eduardo Rodriguez, but the left-hander invoked his no-trade clause and the deal is now dead… The 30-year-old southpaw has a list of 10 teams that he must approve a trade to, and the Dodgers were on his list. It’s unclear if he demanded any sort of extra compensation to waive the clause, or if he flat out didn’t want to go to the Dodgers. He remains one of the top available arms in a pitching-hungry market though, and there’s still an hour remaining for the Tigers to shop him elsewhere.”
Go get him Krall!
We could be on the list too. And next year contract is iffy.
With the Reds losing 100 games last year, I would be surprised if we were on his No trade list.
I’d rather have Cease. I heard E-Rod is a bit of a head case/diva.
His contract is whack.
You’d have to treat him like a rental.
Doubt the Tigers want rental-like prospects in return.
Agree we’d need to look at him as a rental and not overpay. But Tigers have less than an hour to make a deal, so you never know.
Marlins draw nobody normally and they’re adding people. They just got Jake Burger from the White Sox plus Robertson.
Burger is Suarez-like. Batting like sub .220? ….I’m glad the Reds moved on from players like that.
Robertson was a good pickup.
At least we can look forward to next years deadline when the Reds will be selling India, Stephenson and perhaps Diaz.
Not sure about that.
None of us thought the Reds would be where they are.
I am still looking forward to next year.
Some of the prices where just way to high.
All depends on Greene and Lodolo.
Beat the Cubs, and we all feel a bit better.
I am disappointed for the Reds players. They deserve a front office that tries to help them win. No one will say so on the record, but I am sure more than a few of the players are disappointed. It’s a good wake up call to remind the players who they play for.
If we can take 3 of 4 against, the Cubs I’ll feel a lot better for now.
I guess the Reds are viewing their situation as this: soon you will have Greene and Lodolo back. This is better then most trades and don’t cost you anything. I could see Lodolo going bullpen if he has any issues. Off with Weaver. Moll adds another strong lefty. I wish they would have added power righty for the bullpen. Is there anyone in the minors who fits this bill?
Perhaps you’re slyly referring to this –
https://www.redsminorleagues.com/2023/07/29/cincinnati-reds-milb-notebook-richardson-lights-out-in-triple-a-debut/
If not – here’s the paragraph you’re looking for – “Added to the 40-man roster last winter, and now in Triple-A, he very well could become an option out of the Cincinnati bullpen at some point in the final two months of the season if he continues to pitch anything like he has this year in the minors.”
I was wondering about him. He seems to fit the bill nicely. I believe most of his starts have been limited to 3 innings. Not sure if this is to slowly reacclimate him to the rigors of a starting rotation or not.
Get ready for Krall to roll out the excuses on why they couldn’t get a solid starting pitcher.
When we lose the wild card series due to our bullpen imploding because their arms fall off before the playoffs even happen, I’m looking at you Nick Krall.
Also, we all better pray Greene is fully healed when he gets back and who knows if Lodolo will even pitch another game this year.
Really disappointed. Yah blah blah prospects. Should have used some of them to get what we truly needed. 1 more reliever and 1 more middle of the rotation guy would have been enough to help out the rest of the season. I knew we wouldn’t get an ace pitcher, but we probably don’t need an ace currently. Sure, it would have been nice to have, but reality is it wasn’t going to happen.
I would remember this: don’t trust the owners of the Reds when they say they will spend money. If you look at how the treat their Kroger employees, you definitely should never trust them.
So True…I laughed earlier when someone here mentioned the Reds might $50 million dollars this winter on pitching alone. I will be surprised if next years payroll exceeds $65 in total.
*65 million dollars
Everyone have been saying for the past few years wait until the big contracts come off the books. Well we are about to find out what the Reds will do with all that savings. I suspect more dividends for the owners.
I can be ok with the lack of trade action if that means the team is feeling really good about the guys coming off the IL and good about where the current guys health stands. I hope that’s the case.
Someone needs to investigate the conspiracy against the Reds. Every other playoff contender was able to find significant deals that seemed reasonable to them, whereas the Reds apparently didn’t receive one reasonable offer for anyone other than Moll. Why are all the GMs being so unfair to Krall? Who’s the mastermind behind this vast conspiracy?
I’m fine with this outcome. The Reds are soon likely to be acquiring Greene, Lodolo, Legumina, Gutierrez, Antone and perhaps Phillips and Richardson. At zero cost. And they added Moll at low cost. If those reinforcements weren’t on the way then I’d be a little disappointed, but instead I’m good.
Lorenzen, Gray, Aaron Nola, Lucas Giolito, Eduardo Rodriguez, Blake Snell and more, plus some guy named Ohtani will all be free agents this offseason. The Reds can acquire them – if they’re willing to spend – without giving up any of the prospect capital that has proven so instrumental in this earlier than expected success. Would another reliever have been nice? Sure – there are SIX on the way, plus Lodolo and Greene. If Nick Krall thinks the price was too high to acquire more relief help and believes those six guys can contribute (and he knows more about their current health than any of us ever will) then again, I’m good. The sky has not fallen and will not fall because today passed without more trades. And yes, I’m aware that Sho-time is not coming to Cincinnati next year. But I won’t be shocked if one of those other free agent starters wants to join this exciting young team. But first there are about 50 meaningful games to play, and then maybe some playoffs? Wouldn’t that be fun. Go Reds!
Wow Reds management has you fooled. I will be shocked if they sign more than 2 mid-level free agents this winter.
Owners are going to be cheap especially now they know they can compete without raising payroll.
Jay –
I don’t actually expect the FO to sign any big dollar free agent pitchers. I’m just saying that I’d rather they acquired them that way, for just the dollars, than by renting with high value prospects and then still having to spend the same dollars to keep them next year and beyond. I could see them signing someone like Lorenzen. Obviously not an Ohtani or a Snell. But even without that, serious help is on the way.
I was hoping for another lefty for the pen. A starter would have been nice. I’m digging the reds rotation. An upgrade for weaver would have been cool. Hopefully the rehabbing players come back starting in three weeks. I think we are playing with house money these young players playing in meaningful games is going to produce championships. The infield reminds me of the dodger infield when they moved Garvey to first and played Cey and Lopes
The Dodgers infield was together for 8 or 9 years. The Reds infield probably won’t be together 4 years.
The Penguin!
Kinda disappointing no further additions were made, especially after saying the Reds would be looking to be buyers. I’m in favor of not mortgaging the near future (Marte, Phillips) but we had a lot more assets to work with. Definitely feeling shades of 2012/13 when we clearly needed help and mostly crickets from the FO.
Perfect trade deadline by the Reds imo. No need to overspend. Improved marginally without giving up much. Several guys looking to be back this month. Playing with house money in 23, and 40 + mil to spend this Winter for 24 and 25. Waves of performing prospects pushing up through the system. Great draft. Great Intl signings.
Bravo Reds front Office. Bravo.