An eighth-inning downpour at Great American Ball Park led to Monday night’s game between San Francisco and Cincinnati being suspended with the game tied, 2-2. The line score through one out in the top of the eighth inning:

Final R H E
San Francisco Giants (52-41) 2 5 0
Cincinnati Reds (50-44)
2 4 0
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

The game will resume at 5:40 p.m. Eastern time Tuesday. When it does, the Giants will have runners on second and third and one out. Reds lefty Alex Young came on in the top of the eighth this evening in a tie game and immediately got into trouble. He walked pinch-hitter Joc Pederson, then surrendered a double to Wilmer Flores, sending Pederson to third. Michael Conforto grounded out to first baseman Joey Votto, who held the runners at second and third, for the first out of the inning. That’s when the umpiring crew called for the ground crew to deploy the tarp for a rain delay.

Young faced the three batters that he was required to face in the eighth, meaning Manager David Bell has some options Tuesday. The television broadcast reported that righthander Daniel Duarte was throwing in the Reds bullpen just as the game was stopped for an hour and 55 minutes. Due up next for San Francisco in the eighth are righthanded batting J.D. Davis, switch-hitting catcher Patrick Bailey, and then lefthanded batting Mike Yastrzemski.

Tuesday’s regularly scheduled game will begin at the scheduled 7:10 p.m. Eastern, of course depending on how much time the remainder of the suspended game takes.

The Milwaukee Brewers had an off day today, so the no-decision tonight for Cincinnati leaves them two games behind in the National League Central.

The Offense

The home team got off to a quick start when Matt McLain, batting third for the first time in the big leagues, drove a Logan Webb pitch over the right field wall for a 1-0 lead in the bottom of the first.

Jonathan India’s three-hit performance led the home team, and his solo home run in the bottom of the seventh tied the game at 2-2. He is a triple short of the cycle, and may get at least one more chance to bat in the game tomorrow.

Christian Encarnacion-Strand’s major league debut saw him fly out to center field and ground out to second base … so far, that is.

The Pitching

Lefthander Brandon Williamson had his best start as a major leaguer. He pitched six innings, allowing four hits, three walks, and two solo blasts by Austin Slater and Wilmer Flores. The two runs could have been more, were it not for a little help Williamson got from his friends:

Over his last 14 innings, Williamson has allowed only four earned runs. He may be showing signs of returning to the status of an upper-tier pitching prospect instead of a guy who was brought up from Louisville from among a pool of “meh” choices from which Nick Krall could choose.

Fernando Cruz continued his recent streak of quality performances by pitching a scoreless seventh. He’s deservedly moved into a more high-leverage role in close games, rather than a mop-up guy. In June and so far in July, Cruz pitched 21 innings and allowed only five earned runs, an ERA of 2.14.

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds (after the suspended game is completed)

San Francisco Giants at Cincinnati Reds

Tuesday, July 18, 7:10 p.m. ET

Anthony DeSclafani (4-8, 4.44 ERA) vs. Luke Weaver (2-2, 7.00 ERA)

88 Responses

  1. Melvin

    Pitch Diaz to start with? Weaver is pitching tomorrow so our offensive woes will be gone….both games hopefully. 🙂

    • Tom Mitsoff

      You may have something there. 🙂

  2. Tom Mitsoff

    Something that occurred to me, and I honestly don’t know the answer: If India didn’t hit a homer in the bottom of the seventh to tie the game, would the game have been called a 2-1 San Francisco win for a final?

    • Melvin

      Don’t think so since a new inning was started with the score tied. Not positive though. I’m sure some other guys who like to look things up will tell you for sure. 🙂

    • Melvin

      I see what you mean. If India did not homer would the game have been called? I doubt it since there is time to play it tomorrow. If the game didn’t matter late in the season and the umps wanted to they could have called it.

    • Jim Walker

      I think had the score not been tied at the end of the 7th, the team in the lead would have been declared the winner if the game couldn’t have been continued.

      As I recall a game can only be suspended if it is tied after at least 5 innings have been played. Or if the lead changes hand in the top of an inning and the home team hasn’t completed it’s at bat in the bottom of the inning. I.e. if the Giants had taken a lead in the 8th before the rain, the game would have been suspended the same as it was with the tie score.

      But if the Reds had taken a lead in the bottom of the inning and rain hit, the game would have been complete with the Reds as winners because the Giants had gotten their full turn in the decisive inning

      • rednat

        i use to think that was the rule but I think now it is up to the umpires discretion it seems

      • Jim Walker

        The change I found applying to suspended games is that prior to 2020, games that were not yet official, i.e. less than 5 innings/ turns at bat for a trailing team, could NOT be suspended. If they could not continue, everything was simply wiped out and the game started from scratch when made up.

        However since 2020 these games are also suspended then resumed at the point of suspension when made up rather than being started over.

  3. Melvin

    One good thing it takes Webb out of the game. 🙂

  4. rednat

    man, this second half of the season epitomizes reds baseball in the 21st century. plenty of defense and pitching , just not enough consistent offense.

    I think we have plenty of pitching here with the big club and in the pipeline in the minors. I really don’t think there is a need at this point to trade prospects for a pitcher or sign a free agent pitcher any time soon.

    We need more offense. are EDLC, CES, McLain, Steer, Friedl, Benson the answers? I hope so, but looking back over the past 2 decades with our track record of developing position players, its possible none of these guys develop into productive offensive threats. Even with Stephenson and India, do we really know at this point what we have? We have to find some legitimate professional hitters I think to compete. The question is where to find them and how to get them to sign with the reds.

    • Melvin

      Maybe we should promote the hitting coach from Louisville. It seems everyone hits down there. 🙂

      • Pete

        Amen. Seems like a great strides are made in hitting at Louisville and with pitching at Dayton…. Maybe it’s just me?

      • Chris

        In fairness, everyone has been hitting up here until they ran into the buzz saw that is the Brewers. Yesterday they faced arguably the best in the NL over the last couple of weeks. I expect this offense will be just fine.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      That’s why I really didn’t see a need to bring up CES. People crying for CES to come up, that he was going to cure all of our team’s offensive needs? Seriously?

      That’s like saying to cure our educational system, simply put another student in each classroom. It doesn’t work like that.

      A vast majority of bloggers on here don’t understand that at this level, the name of the game is adjustments. For example, say you are a highly touted prospect:

      – you get called up and have great success upon callup.
      – the other teams start to figure you out and make their adjustments against you. They figure you out.
      – So, then, you start to struggle. You have to be able to make the adjustments again.

      But, so many people here see a record breaking number of HR’s upon first callup (Aquino) or stealing 3 bases on 2 pitches (Elly) or whatever. Like, did Aquino ever learn to hit a curveball? No. Has Elly learned to put a good swing on a pitch yet consistently? I haven’t seen it.

      Hey, I hope all of these guys can make the adjustments. But, if they can’t, this team is going to go like Aquino. I wouldn’t bank on it. Bell is the bottom of the barrel type of manager. He probably hasn’t learned how to do this yet.

      And, even if they can learn to make the adjustments and all become stars in the league, they all are going to come up for extensions at the same time. No team is going to be able to do that these days. Get ready, everyone. We are going to lose a lot of favorites very quickly.

      That’s why part of me still thinks that the owners may be trying to build a Tampa Rays 2.0 type of organization. In about 3-4 years, at least half of these rookies will be firesaled for prospects. If that part of me is right.

      • Hal Ludwig

        Dude, just stop, please. You are normally easy to ignore but this time you outkicked your coverage. Congrats.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        Tell me where I was wrong? Oh, you can’t.

        We all just got the level of your intelligence. Thank you.

      • Steve

        This is ridiculous. To start with the adjustments, yes all players throughout their careers will need to make adjustments, that isn’t new information. Slumps happen, and not just to rookies but to all players. I think we are probably all guilty of getting too excited and wrapped up in the magic that was the last month…this team will have its ups and downs.
        Comparing EDLC to Aquino is just nonsense and doesn’t deserve more of a response than that.
        Worrying about what will happen with this core in 4 years is truly wasted energy. Can we not enjoy the fact that we have a young and exciting team, why is it that we get nice things and immediately are looking to see when the fun will end rather than just enjoying the fun. I don’t have a problem with pessimistic fans, but for the life of me I cannot understand why some people refuse to relax and enjoy the good times and are worried about how the team might look in 2028.

      • Chris

        No one even bothers to read your full posts anymore. When you make false statements in the 1st of your 10 paragraphs like usual, you lose all credibility. NO ONE suggested that CES would cure the Red’s offensive needs. Virtually everyone suggested that he would HELP their offense. Do you not think that CES is better offensively than Newman or Casali?

      • DHud

        Steve you’re wrong by:

        1) purposely misconstruing the opposite standpoint. “CES will cure the whole team’s offense” never was or never will be the argument. You are the one making it be
        2) writing off/marginalizing/discrediting the “vast majority” of other commenters on here by claiming they “don’t understand” the sport
        3) assuming you know what is/isn’t going on in the locker room. “There’s no leadership,” “they need closed door meetings for accountability.” You don’t know if those things exist or not, but you claim them to be the answer just as you assert that others claiming CES is the answer
        4) and stemming from the first three, your insinuation that you have it figured out and none of the rest of us do

        So there is where you’re wrong from an debate standpoint

        Going further into your other points

        You assert “that’s what bench players are for, why bring up CES to be a bench player?” Cause why would you not put the best 26 guys on the roster? I’m not going to save a roster spot for an 80 OPS+ guy just because he’s a “bench” player when I can replace him with someone better. CES is statistically better than Newman, Senzel, Reynolds, Fairchild, Casali, Maile…

      • Dewey Roberts

        Steve, we know your position on CES by now. But… he has been called up so you will have to live with that fact.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      No team ever has consistent offense. All teams have slumps. You just need to get out of them. You need to have managers or players to take leadership over and hold players accountable. Like player-only closed-door meetings.

      Like I posted elsewhere, the name of the game at this level is adjustments. You have success, the other team is going to figure out how to defend against you, making an adjustment. You need to figure out how to adjust back.

      That’s why I really didn’t care about CES being moved up here. Because I felt confident that he wasn’t what we needed. We needed a veteran leader for the locker room, either the player or the manager. We need the players to make their adjustments. No minor leaguer is going to do that with/for major leaguers. “Well, he could play for them while the regular just sits for a couple of games. takes a break.” That’s what the bench players are for. We are going to call up minor leaguers to do the bench players jobs? Then what are the bench players suppose to be doing? What are their reasons for existence?

      I’ve seen this all year this year. I saw it all year last year. This is nothing but a young team. All characteristics of a young team. Can play good enough to get the high of highs (12 game win streak) and the low of lows (the start of last season). No stabilizing force anywhere. No veteran leadership. No leadership period. Players like Moose was suppose to be, but he never played good enough. Get going good for a time, then bad for a time, then good for a time, then bad for a time, a lot like any baseball team. But, no stabilizing force.

      Then, fans on here, just because of a couple of losses, think we are pitiful and poor, like we should toss in the towel or something, like they expected us to win the last 72 games and score 10 runs each game or something. No rationale with many people on here. Let’s don’t try changing the batting order. Let’s don’t try to just sit a couple of players for a couple of games, so that they can get their head on straight. Just call up the next prospect. It just didn’t make any sense to me.

      Sort of farcical, but what we need is the baseball version of Obi-wan Kinobi. We need the “Jedi Baseball Master”, exactly the opposite of calling up any CES.

      • Rednat

        I felt the 1999 team had As about as consistent an offense you can get. But you are right they had senior leadership with Vaughn and Larkin.
        You are right as well that it is all about adjustments but it just seems like our prospects we develop never are able to succeed in making these adjustments. I think of Stubbs, Hamilton, Aquino and I am hoping this crop of youngsters don’t have the same fate

      • Indy Red Man

        CES is 0-2 with a sharp groundball up the middle. He’s clearly not ready. C’mon man. There is a concept that employees like and players are employees.
        If I produce more then the next guy then I’ll get promoted before they do. Benson was about the 8th best hitter in Louisville and how long has he been up?
        Half of our lineup are 1st/2nd year guys.
        If they think the kid is or could be part of the future then let’s see what he can do.
        And leadership? Scream your way out of a hitting slump like Bobby Knight? He’s moving the order? You have to show that you’re confident in young guys. This s is hard.

        Let me find a translator. I’m convinced Schoenbaechler is German for hemorrhoids

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        Actually, Schoenbaechler I was told is German for Sweet baker. Still wondering why your Red, Indy.

        As well as still wondering just what your point is. I guess you have difficulty about that and can only limit yourself to weak not-even-sophomoric insults.

      • Still a Red

        Jedi Baseball Master…you mean like Phil Jackson. I don’t think Phil Jackson made his Bulls and Lakers winners. I don’t think Sparky caused the Big Red Machine. I think Phil and Sparky acted as guard rails, keeping them together, keeping them focused. Michael Jordan et al and Kobe Bryant et al and Joe Morgan et al made those teams winners.

    • mac624

      youth means inconsistency as they grow. Just how it goes. Not at all surprised by the slow start. They’ll catch fire as the things go their way and they can regain confidence. Until then, allow them to learn and adjust and try not to panic and make a bunch of panic trades!

  5. DaveCT

    Williamson is gonna be fine. A solid no. 5 guy behind Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft and Abbott.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      Agreed, for now. #5 guys almost are all crapshoots. He might work now. Then, we might sign a pitcher for ST next season and he outperforms Williamson, or one of our minor leaguers will do that.

      So, I’m not holding out that Williamson will also be effective for us out of the pen. We need one out there.

      • DaveCT

        Yeah, I think a move to the pen is a ways off, as well. But I do think having someone like Williamson in the 5 spot means major league minimum pay, with some degree of upside. There are also teams that would trade for that.

    • jmb

      He certainly has not impressed since coming over to the Reds…that is, until his last few outings (all this month). He seems to be getting comfortable. Yep, he’s their #5 if he can keep it up.

  6. Indy Red Man

    Elly De La Hamilton. I think it was 3 Taylor Swift boyfriends ago since we saw him running the bases.

    • Tyler Hawk

      You mean Elly De la Cerano lol He can’t even hit a fastball at this point though. Somebody needs to put Jobu in his locker so he can hit curveball very far.

  7. Fanman

    The Reds do have a young and inexperienced lineup. That being said, top to bottom, this lineup is loaded. Stephenson was our cleanup hitter last season. The Reds have faced some excellent pitching, including that talented Brewers bullpen. I still believe Reds are more talented, especially the position players. Let’s enjoy the ride and hope ownership provides, at least, some help before deadline..not mortgage future but another lefty in bullpen. A veteran starter. (See current injuries and Abbott running out of innings).

  8. Pete

    Now that CES has reached the show, I think the next guy up needs to be Chuckie Robinson. The guy can flat out hit. And those who suggest that since he didn’t hit with the Reds when he got his call up last year look at how much he has improved over his career minor-league stats. This guy seems to figured out how to hit a baseball.

    You never know until someone hits the big time, but I think it’s a wager I would be willing to make. If there ever was a season to experiment with some of these guys, this is the one. This is not the year the Reds contend for championship. I’m sorry to tell you this. But if you look at all the raw talent we have in the minor-league system you can’t help but be wildly optimistic about the future. By the way, it is also time to get a Fairchild back up here. And just maybe the Louisville hitting instructor as well….

    Senzel, Newman, Casali and Maile are not part of the teams future. Cut bait and get what you can in return.

    • jmb

      True, those four guys (and another player–Barrero? Weaver? Stout? Siani?) should be used in a package to land Grandal (for his experience), and Kopech, maybe even Crochet, from the White Sox. Once Greene comes back, Kopech could be used as a closer. Both he and Crochet reach 100, whereas Diaz doesn’t. That’s not to say Diaz isn’t just fine in the role. Diaz is great because he’s “wild in the zone.” He would be a great 7th inning guy, a guy who comes in to put out any fires. Those three could be the new “Nasty Boys.” On top of all of the Reds’ positives, they would then be able to shorten games.

      • jmb

        Barrero and Siani are really coming on of late.

      • Pete

        Totally agree about Siana and Barrero. Seems like whoever goes to Louisville Hopster game by quite a bit. Speaking of hitters, of course.

      • Jim Walker

        @Pete, I am beginning to wonder if the phenomena we are seeing with hitters at Louisville is an outgrowth from the use of the Automatic Ball/Strike (robot ump) system at AAA this season.

        For anyone not familiar, half the games are called directly by the ABS robot system; and, the other half are called by human umps with the human calls subject to a limited challenge system with the ABS having the final say in the challenge.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      The last thing this team needs is to bring up more minor leaguers. Why not just call up the entire Louisville Bats team?

      The guys that we have, they need to learn how to play like major leaguers. They need to learn to make their adjustments. They need coaches, managers, and veteran leadership to help them learn how to do that, not another minor leaguer up here.

      • Pete

        Steve, I just have a fundamental disagreement with you. I believe this season is all about development and seeing what the youngsters have. If you think this team contends for a World Series, then I think your point of view makes perfect sense. I don’t, so I don’t share your opinion.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        Oh, hey, I’m in 100% agreement with you, Pete. It’s others on here who are crying about how we need to do something like call up CES to get our offense on or we aren’t going to win.

        I have no problem with losses at all. Not one bit. I have a problem with mistakes. Well, not even mistakes, actually, as long as people learn from them (like the development you mentioned) so that they don’t make them again. Chasing balls 3 feet out of the K-zone. Missing the cutoff man. Getting picked off. Calling in a reliever just to throw 1-5 pitches to get a single out, only to call in a new reliever the next inning, knowing that your bullpen is already taxed.

        This is a young team. I’ve seen it all year. I’ve seen it last year. They can ride the high of highs (12 game win streak), they can ride the lowest of lows (the start of last season). But, we lose some games to the Brewers and, all of a sudden, everyone is acting like Chicken Little. It’s ridiculous.

        In short, I’m exactly 100% opposite of what your post presumes about me. I’m in 100% agreement with you.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        Well, maybe not 100% agreement. I simply believe we have enough minor leaguers up here. We need to be concentrating on teaching who is up here how to develop, to become better. Just moving minor leaguers up isn’t going to do that job.

        So, maybe to inquire to you, are you just looking at moving minor leaguers up, are you are actually interested in further developing who’s up here already? For, if we don’t get these developed, we just wasted assets by turning them into the next Nick Senzel. I’d like to see some of these actually learn how to become a major leaguer and become an AS in a couple of years. That takes time and attention from veterans, managers, coaches. But, if we bring up more minor leaguers, that takes time and attention away from them.

        In short, it seems like you are just talking about “Bringing them up and see if they develop”. I’m talking about giving them the time and attention they need while up here to develop. Or, you’re just talking about putting more kids in the high school from the middle school. I’m talking about making the high school a better high school, by working with the kids more, seeing they learn more, etc.

      • MBS

        “we lose some games to the Brewers” losing 5 of 6 is a big deal, especially when they are against the team your battling against for 1st in the division. I don’t believe the sky is falling, but I do believe the Brewers came into town realizing the division was on the line in those 6 games. If we had won 5 of 6 we’d be 6 up on them right now. They came in focused and we laid down.

        This team is going to make the playoffs, I’m pretty confident of that, but IDK if they’ll win in the playoffs.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        MBS “we lose some games to the Brewers” losing 5 of 6 is a big deal”

        We lost 6 straight back in April. 4 of those were to the Pirates. The last one put the Pirates in first place. How did we do after that? How did the Pirates do after that?

        Sure, it would have been great to have won those games. But, did we lose the season because of those games? Not by a long shot, just like how we didn’t lose the season when we had that 6 game losing streak, losing 4 straight to the Pirates. It happens to every team every season.

        The thing is. . .how do these players respond? That’s what worries me. Are they going to make their adjustments? Or, just keep on keeping on, expecting something different to happen? Significant batting order changes? Players sitting for a time? What’s going to wake the players up?

        If the players don’t respond, then they either had poor leadership in the clubhouse (as in veteran players, managers, coaches, etc.), or they were never really major leaguers in the first place.

        So, it may be simply from what perspective we see things. I may only be hearing from you talk about the losing 5 of 6 from the Brewers. You may only hear from me it’s meaningless.

        But, I can hear from you that changes need to be made. Can you hear from me that losses happen all the time, that it’s how our players respond to the losses (making the changes) that’s going to be important?

      • MBS

        “The thing is. . .how do these players respond? That’s what worries me. Are they going to make their adjustments?”

        I’m still bullish on them, I’m only saying they failed badly in their most playoff like series that they’ve seen. You and Pete might be looking at this season as a sorting period. Early on I was to, but we are past sorting, and now into competing for the division.

      • Ted Alfred

        I think most of us agree 100% about the young guys learning up here, which is best accomplished mostly through their experience playing with and against other MLB ballplayers, so if that is true why wouldn’t CES also fall under that same umbrella? CES has done just as much as McClain and Elly did down in Triple A before they got called up and look at how they are playing… while also learning little things here and there and adjusting everyday…so why should his situation be any different? You talk out of both sides of your mouth and make no sense, making absurd comments that have zero basis in reality…as if CES didn’t earn his shot. Comparing CES getting called up to bringing some random player up without acknowledging what he did in AAA to get the call seems to be intentionally dismissive of his talent and hardwork to put up the numbers he did in Louisville…even more ridiculous when you spout off about bringing the whole team up. You act like all minor leaguers are in the same pool talent-wise, which is mind-numbingly dumb. If that was the case, let’s just put the names in a hat and blindly draw one when the Reds decide to call a player up. So you keep making yourself sound more ludicrous with each passing day, yammering on with the constant inane diatribe against CES coming up, so it just undermines any reasonable points you occasionally make.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler


        “I think most of us agree 100% about the young guys learning up here, which is best accomplished mostly through their experience playing with and against other MLB ballplayers”

        That is only one small part of their development at this level. This is the majors, not the minors. The name of the game up here is making adjustments. If you can’t make the adjustments, you become Aquino. If you can, you become at minimum a serviceable major leaguer.

        Calling more minor leaguers up just to play against major leaguers isn’t going to get them to make their adjustments. Veteran leadership, watching how they make their adjustments. Coaches and managers instructing them on how to make their adjustments.

        That’s one reason why the Astros, when they did their rebuild, held on Altuve.

        That’s one reason why the Cubs, when they went through their rebuild some years ago, went out and got Lester and Zobrist.

        Every good team has that veteran presence, the leadership presence, where when the time comes if needed, could even call a players-only closed-door meeting. Every winning team has a veteran that will show the youngsters how to make their adjustments, how to win at this level. Manager or player, every good team has that.

        Who do we have for this? Oh, I know, CES will do that for us? Oh, no, Marte will do it? No, maybe Collier will be that guy?

  9. LDS

    If history is any indication, the Reds will likely lose the 1st game and Bell will deplete the bench/bullpen leaving them at a disadvantage in the main game. Hopefully, some offense shows up in the 1st game quickly and Diaz isn’t necessary.

    • Mark A Verticchio

      If you want to win the first game you must start with Sims or Diaz and hope to some how escape the 8th with zero or at best one run scoring. With this offense it almost has to be zero.

      • Ted Alfred

        I think you have to go with Sims. The fact that first base is open is nice in case he comes in a little wild it doesn’t hurt you, but I think you have to keep Diaz back to save the second game, unless this 1st game presents a save opportunity later

    • Harry Stoner

      One time I’d like to see a walk to the first batter.
      Set up a force at home or a DP.

      Will Bell’s head be in the game?

      • Mark A Verticchio

        Harry Stoner you are 100% correct. If Bell’s head is in the game he will set up the double play. However I wouldn’t count on this strategy.

      • Mark Moore

        Was thinking the exact same thing. Our D certainly has the ability to produce Bike Helmets. Might just be worth the risk of the IBB.

      • Jim Walker

        Yep, which calls for Diaz and not Sims because Sims pitching with the bases loaded is much more dangerous for the Reds than Diaz,

      • Chris

        Disagree with you here. In today’s game with guys that have a 10 times better chance to strike someone out, you don’t put a guy on 1st because then a walk scores a run. Sims is always a little wild too, and then he’d have to worry about not walking someone instead of doing his best to strike the guy out.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      Agreed, LDS. Could relievers by used in both games? Sure. But, you are going to want to avoid that all you can.

      Meaning Weaver is going to have to have a good outing.

      • Dennis Westrick

        The chance that Weaver having a “good” outing is about as likely as winning Powerball!

  10. Roger Garrett

    This team will be fine but it is a young team and these guys have talent and over the long haul talent wins.I have hollered long and loud to just play the young guys and lets move on from the vets and there at or below average play.Yes most guys traded or not signed or just let go are still playing at or below average some where for somebody.Goodness would we want any of these guys back?New leadership will emerge as the new culture of winning takes hold.Yes it frustrating when they make mistakes or don’t execute maybe the simplest of things on the baseball field but the old guys did the same things.Look at some of the ages of this group and tell me this isn’t the way to go?For me we could let 2 or 3 guys go right now on this roster and bring up guys from the minors and just play.This year never was about anything other then sorting and Joey is the last vet standing.2024 looks really good if Bob spends some bucks.Every team in our division has many many more roster issues then we do.Old guys owed big money and guys due raises at the same time.Burnes nor Woodard will pitch next year for 10 mil.Anybody want Yelich and his 25 mil+ and I actually thinks its more through 2029.How about Goldy and Nolan for the Cards and so on and so on.Reds are in a good place regardless of how 2023 plays out.GO REDS

    • Pete

      Exactly, maybe this is the year to learn how to deal with slumps and hone fundamentals. I’m not saying this team can’t make the playoffs, they certainly can but to me it’s not the highest priority at this point. I don’t see a World Series in 2023, that’s it. But it looks like the future of this ball club should have many opportunities down the road. Let these guys learn this year, everyone be patient and enjoy the process.

      This organization is so loaded with talent it’s actually laughable. But in a good way!

      • Votto4life

        I would agree Pete except we all know that this team will not be together for a decade or more. The Reds have Five years to win. After that EDLC, McClain, CES and Steer all move on to greener pastures.

      • Pete

        As long as a Nick Krall is running the operation I think we’re gonna be OK to be honest with you. Plus I’m 63 years old so five years doesn’t sound all that bad to me!

        I can’t say this often enough: they must keep Nick Krall. Period.

      • Votto4life

        If the Red’s front office does not shore up the rotation in the next three weeks it will be down to four years.

        Like you, I am in my early 60s, I would love to see another World Series. I don’t want to see an opportunity pass by.

        I just don’t understand how with a team in first place at the all star break, that people here, want to fold up the tent and chalk the season up to “sorting” (whatever that means)

        After the 1999 season, many thought the Reds would dominate the early 2000s, especially when the team added Ken Griffey Jr. We all know how that turned out.

        By the way, I was being optimistic when I said the Reds have five years to win. When EDLC, Abbott and McClain etc. become arg eligible the Reds will start another rebuild.

      • Votto4life

        Nope..Many on the 1999 team were 26 years old or younger including Sean Casey, Pokey Reese, Mike Cameron, Travis Dawkins and Scott Williamson just to name a few.

      • Pete

        I don’t think I can agree with that. Dawkins played in all of seven games. As far as I know, he was never heard from again. Greg Vaughan, Barry Larkin, Eddie Taubensee, Hal Morris, and nearly the whole starting pitching staff were all over 30 years old. If there was ever a team that was in a win now mode, it would be the 99 Reds. God knows they tried by getting Griffey and I’m sorry that it didn’t work out, but it certainly was worth the effort.

        The 1999 reds had a decent young core but the 2023 version is whole stock young with the exception of Joey Votto. I’m sorry there’s just no comparison. Now a disaster could befall this team no question it can happen. But life is a risk, and I willing to risk that these guys are not going tofall on their face anytime soon. In particular with a great general manager, who seems to know what he’s doing. Let’s hang onto him.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      “Yes most guys traded or not signed or just let go are still playing at or below average some where for somebody.”

      Ummm, didn’t we just have, what was it, 6 former Reds in the AS game? I wouldn’t call that at or below average.

      Nope, all young guns need some kind of leadership there; it just doesn’t happen. We have none.

      When the Houston Astros did their rebuild (remember how they had 3 straight losing teams?), they still held onto Altuve. They still held onto a player who they felt was the lockerroom presence they knew they would need. Hmmm, seems like they are doing pretty good now, with/without the microphones.

      When the Cubs did their rebuild several years ago, did their firesales and collected the prospects, they still went out and got a player or 2 like Jon Lester and Ben Zobrist, a couple of guys to lead the youngsters.

      If we are just going to call up minor leaguers, why don’t we just get rid of the entire Reds team, just call up the entire Louisville Bats? Then, if they don’t work, just call up the Chattanooga team.

      Just going young just isn’t the answer.

      People may try to relate to the Rays now, “Look at what they are doing.” Yes, let’s look. A couple of 31 year olds in their starting lineup, more than half the starters 27 and older. They are a low payroll team, not necessarily only a young team.

      Why should Bob spend any bucks? If we need any players, just call up a Bat, or a Lookout, so on? After all, if a player is getting to the contract extension phase, just let them go; they’re getting old. Young is the way to go, right?

    • Thomas Atwood

      I have to assume that you are not referring to India, Stephenson or Fraley because they have not reached their arbitration years yet.

      I also have to assume you are not talking about Senzel or Newman because they are bench bats. Their replacement would not get enough playing time to justify bringing them up.

      If you are talking about Casali, I get it. But if you are replacing him with another catcher, why? And if not, you are again calling up a guy to mostly ride the bench rather than hone his game by playing every day.

      That leaves Votto. If you want to argue he has no value to the team, I defer you to Will Benson’s comments about him.

      This rant strikes me as the words of a young man who has little regard for experience because he has little of it by which to know its value.

  11. IndyDoug

    Is there an ignore function on here?

    • MBS

      Back and forth can be fun, what I’d really like is an edit, and a like button.

      • SlippinJimmy

        Liked your idea for a like button. Or a simple thumbs up and thumbs down.

        Yes, an edit button would be very useful for the occasional fat finger or errant auto-correct.

        Also, the “reply” button on this site seems to disappear sometimes, like you can only reply to certain comments sometimes.

      • Doug Gray

        I will turn comments off before adding a like/dislike button – that much I can promise you. The dislike button, in particular, is the absolute worst thing to ever happen to internet commenting.

        But the reply button only goes so “deep” into a thread. Otherwise you will have replies that only fit two letters per line.

        I know that people treat the comments section like a message board, but it’s never been designed to be that.

      • Votto4life

        Thank you for your patience with us Doug.

      • MBS

        I don’t like the dislike button either, it seems like you’re just pilling on. There are many comments that make nice points that don’t need a reply message, where a simple thumbs up would do the job.

        btw, no complaints, this is the best site to talk Reds baseball on the internet. You put out great content, and there are many passionate Reds fans to talk Red’s baseball with. I enjoy the different perspectives, the eternal optimists, and pessimist alike

    • Votto4life

      I try to ignore myself, but everywhere I go, there I am.

  12. Votto4life

    Wade Miley to the 15 day IL with shoulder issues.

  13. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Reds losing streaks – 2023
    6 games – April 18-23 (Rays/Pirates)
    4 games – May 17-21 (Rockies/Yankees)
    4 games – June 1-4 (Red Sox/Brewers)
    4 games – July 9-16 (Brewers)
    3 games – April 4-8 (Cubs/Phillies)
    3 games – April 10-12 (Braves)
    3 games – June 24-26 (Braves/Orioles)

    How many games are we out of first place?

    • Dennis Westrick

      Good point! Losing streaks happen to all teams, both good teams and bad teams! It’s how the team responds to those streaks that matters!

      • Indy Red Man

        True, but those streaks are magnified when they’re heads-up vs your direct competition. We keep losing to SF, Arizona, Milw and they’ll get buried.
        To be honest we weren’t looking for the playoffs coming in so it’s not the end of the world. Winning is fun though. And they have talent with a lot of room to improve. Just keep sorting! Elly at leadoff and CES now. Let’s see what India can do down the stretch. Agree with another poster, if you’ve got to have 3 catchers then can’t Robinson be one of them? A backup at .280 wouldn’t hurt

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        “True, but those streaks are magnified ”

        No. We magnify them. In the end, they are still just games. The winner of the division is still who wins the most games.

        Now, if it was something like the NFL, where there’s a tie-breaking system, then you might have something.

  14. redfanorbust

    IMHO Reds should not make any significant trades unless it move the needle not just this year but into the next. For example, don’t trade for Giolito from White Sox unless he was willing to sign a contract extension. (I know that probably will not happen but just an example). WS will most certainally ask for an overpay. There are so many unknowns. As we all know our team is very young and our two best pitchers are out. We are not sure when they will come back and how well they pitch when they do. Now we are not hitting well at all. That is a result of running into high quality pitching against a more veteran team in second place (at the time) that was right on our heels and our young guys trying too hard. So yeah for the most part if I am the GM I wait around and see how things shake out and young guys getting a year (or about) under their belts. Look towards next year when this team will finally have some money to spend on FA. At least we will have a much better idea about our current team, see what FA’s are available and make steady, reliable decisions. And oh yeah here’s hoping Reds don’t continue with such rotten luck with injuries.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      “True, but those streaks are magnified ”

      No. We magnify them. In the end, they are still just games. The winner of the division is still who wins the most games.

      Now, if it was something like the NFL, where there’s a tie-breaking system, then you might have something.

      • Ted Alfred

        There is such a thing as momentum and right now the reds are going in the wrong direction in a HUGE way at a pivital point in the season. This five-game losing streak is not like a five games losing streak back in May or April, they’re not the same.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      I could agree with that.

  15. Bet on Red

    but but but… we are not out of it.