A pitchers duel broke out at Great American Ball Park on Friday night between Graham Ashcraft and Corbin Burnes as they matched zeroes for six innings. It was Milwaukee that finally broke through with a run in the 7th inning to take a 1-o lead and they would hold on from there as three relievers combined for three perfect innings to close the game out.

Final R H E
Milwaukee Brewers (50-42) 1 6 0
Cincinnati Reds (50-42) 0 2 0
W: Burnes (8-5) L: Ashcraft (4-7) SV: Williams (21)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

The Brewers threatened early when William Contreras doubled with one out in the 1st inning, but Graham Ashcraft worked around it with a fly out and a strikeout. They would threaten again in the top of the 3rd inning when Joey Wiemer walked and moved up to second base on a ground out. William Contreras came up with another hit, singling into left field. Spencer Steer came up throwing as Wiemer rounded third and he nailed him at the plate to end the inning.

Cincinnati got a little something rolling in their half of the 3rd inning with a 1-out single by TJ Friedl and a 2-out pitch that hit Jake Fraley in the foot that put two men on base. But Corbin Burnes go tout of it as he picked up his 7th strikeout of the day, fanning Elly De La Cruz to end the inning and keep the game scoreless.

In the bottom of the 5th inning Will Benson picked up a 1-out single. After TJ Friedl struck out – the 10th of the game for Corbin Burnes, it brought Matt McLain to the plate. After a called strike, Burnes walked off of the back of the mound and went down to a knee. The training staff came out, as did the manager. Burnes got some water and the staff checked on him for probably five minutes before everyone decided he could remain in the game. McLain worked a full count, but he would pop out to shortstop to end the inning.

Graham Ashcraft gave up a leadoff single in the top of the 6th inning. It was just the third hit of the game for the Brewers. Ashcraft followed up with a strikeout of Christian Yelich before getting William Contreras to ground into an inning-ending double play.

Corbin Burnes, seemingly feeling better, returned for the bottom of the 6th inning and he struck out the side. That gave him 13 of them for the day as he reached 102 pitches.

Ashcraft returned for the top of the 7th inning with just 65 pitches on the day, but the Brewers got right to work. Willy Adames doubled to lead off the inning and then Owen Miller singled into right field to put runners on the corners. That was enough for manager David Bell, who walked out to the mound to call on Lucas Sims out of the Cincinnati bullpen and end the day for Ashcraft after 74 pitches.

Sims gave up an RBI single to Victor Caratini to begin his night as Milwaukee grabbed a 1-0 lead. He would follow that up with back-to-back strikeouts before walking Jesse Winker to load the bases. Sims would get a pop up to strand the bases loaded.

Derek Law entered the game and threw a perfect 8th inning on 13 pitches to keep it a 1-run game. Cincinnati went down in order in their half of the frame, too. Fernando Cruz entered the game for the Reds in the 9th and he kept those perfect innings going by getting one of his own.

The Reds needed at least one run before recording three outs in the 9th inning and had the heart of the order due up against closer Devin Williams. Jake Fraley worked a full count, but he struck out swinging. Elly De La Cruz would line out to center. That left the game in the hands of Jonathan India. He, like Fraley, worked a full count. But just like Fraley he struck out swinging.

The result of the game moved both the Reds and the Brewers to 50-42 on the season and into a tie for 1st place in the National League Central.

Key Moment of the Game

Victor Caratini coming through with the lone RBI of the game in the top of the 7th inning.

Notes Worth Noting

The Reds have now lost back-to-back 1-0 games to the Brewers.

Cincinnati batters struck out 18 times and had just two walks.

Graham Ashcraft was good once again – his third quality start in a row. His ERA dropped back under the 6.00 mark, getting down to 5.95.

 

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

Milwaukee Brewers vs Cincinnati Reds

Saturday July 15th, 7:10pm ET

Freddy Peralta (5-7, 4.70 ERA) vs Andrew Abbott (4-1, 2.38 ERA)

118 Responses

  1. Indy Red Man

    Wow. That feels like more then just 1 loss. I hope it doesn’t start a collapse? I know Burnes & Co. are good, but 3.98 or whatever? Take heaters.right.down.broadway then K or garbage in the dirt over and over. Even in the 9th….Jake takes 90 mph right down the middle 0-1.
    That is the best pitch you’re gonna get guys? Wt?

    I hope they come back tomorrow and hit 3 hrs and win 8-3, but Idk? They look mentally beaten by Milw pitching

    • Indy Red Man

      Also had a man on 1st with wheels and they stand there while Burnes is bouncing curve balls? Where did the aggressiveness go?

      • Indy Red Man

        Happened atleast twice if not 3 times

    • Chad Wilson

      In a game like that with the speed we got, I would love to see the guys lay down bunts and put the pressure on the defense to make the play. This O needs a jolt, no better time to CES on one way taxi to Cincy in morning. For whatever reason the offense relaxes when we have great pitching, but if we give up 5 in the 1st, we come out attacking.
      I realize it’s a good team they are facing and what they have done to this point is incredible, but if the guys currently on this roster want to be in the conversation as a possible playoff team ECT, the next 2 games in my opinion we tell us all we need to know about taking that next step. Sure we got knocked down, we can stay there and say what a great year, or we can dust ourselves off and once we cross the lines the next two days, we take what should be the Reds and that’s the NL Central. I am confident they will dig down deep, players, coaches ECT.. it’s time to show the world who the Cincinnati Reds are. I support what ever decisions the staff makes but i would like to think there is one kid that could make the trip to Cincy tomorrow and bring a renewed energy to the lineup and put even that much more pressure on opposing pitchers to be great and not make mistakes or they will pay, but it would also bring out the true dawgs on the team. Nothing wrong with a little competition on the same team. It just makes everyone better and the ones it doesn’t than we move on. Love the Reds and believe tomorrow is the beginning of something more amazing than what we sent in the first half. The sky’s the limit
      If they want it, all they have to do is go get it

    • Chad Wilson

      CES needs to be on the MidNight train to Cincy!!!
      It’s almost criminal not to have this kid in the lineup. He was and is just as productive as the others called up before him, I love ,Elly, McClain, Abbot but CES is just as deserving and this lineup could use him now. You make a spot for a guy like him. Can’t tell me there’s no room, I would disagree. We have been shut out twice recently, 18k , ECT there is room..
      Find it, make whatever decision needs to be made and get him here. I’m sure there is going to be some hard decision moving forward that is if we’re serious about wanting to Win and be Contenders. I’ve been a lifelong fan and I love all the guys as much as anyone, but we now have the talent and window to make those difficult decisions and put the best product on the field and keep climbing the ladder until we get where we want to go and that is adding another World Series Title. It’s been a long time coming and now it’s time to start going after it.

  2. Melvin

    The Reds have been winning and are in 1st place mainly because of their offense. Tonight’s lineup is generally a very good one. However as we’ve seen it can be better. I am more than ready for CES to replace Casali and Fairchild to replace Newman. Neither one have much of a role anymore. We know what CES can bring. He already has three more hits tonight. Fairchild, if nothing else, can give a late inning threat as a pinch runner. That’s a weakness. I can’t think of one pitcher that can be used in that role. With the premium on pitching and so many injuries I’m not sure it’s a good idea even if we could. If I’m correct EDLC is the only player on our roster faster than Fairchild.

    • Ted Alfred

      I really think they’re going to bring CES up tomorrow. Pretty hard to take two straight 1-0 losses looking this inept offensively vs your main divisional rival when you know CES has been banging on the door to come up for 6+ weeks. Now is the time…especially when you realize how little it would have taken offensively to win both of these games…in which case your up 4 games over the Brewers.

      • Jim Walker

        Or do like they did last time when held off on any changes till after the damage was done vs Brewers prior to calling EDLC.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      Well, that didn’t take long for the CES chants to ring out again.

      All one has to do is consider things. . .Burnes is a recent Cy Young winner. He was obviously on last night. An entire major league team couldn’t hit him last night. And, you really think a minor leaguer would be able to come up and do the job and ignite the entire offense?

      Again, offense isn’t this teams problem. “What about last night?” That is one game. Of course there will be a game here and there. But, this offense is in the top 6 in every major offensive category. The offense obviously isn’t the problem. And, thinking some minor leaguer is going to come up here and solve all of our offensive problems that don’t exist is ridiculous, much less making a move “just for one game” against a recent Cy Young winner is simply ridiculous, a minor leaguer where 2 of the players last night were hitting just as good as if not better than the minor leaguer is at AAA. Especially when one person proclaims “The Reds have been winning and are in 1st place mainly because of their offense”, their offense obviously isn’t the problem. Then why bring someone up that’s suppose to help the offense? It’s ridiculous.

      Second, I believe the bullpen has had just as much a say in those wins. They’ve done an excellent job since the end of April, now standing as 4th in the NL. And, the Reds have only been winning primarily because of their offense? It wasn’t too long ago that this bullpen was killing us, losing so many close games. Just last year, they were 13th in the league. Now, if the bullpen was still 13th in the league, and we still have the record we have, even if we have been winning all of our games by a minimum of 5 runs each game, then I will agree we have been winning mainly because of our pitching. But, also, given the fact that our expected record is suppose to be 2 games under 500, given that we have a negative run differential, meaning we’ve been losing the blowouts and winning the close ones, the evidence points towards our bullpen having a definite impact in many of those wins.

      Notice I never did say anything like “primarily the bullpen”. For, common logic would tell one that, for example, it would be the bullpen that would be able to shut the other team down after the starter, so that the offense can have the opportunity to come back. Or, that the offense can stake us to a lead, then the bullpen would come in and close the deal. But, to dismiss the bullpen in the success of this team would be ridiculous.

      If not even the starting pitching and the work by the front office to patchwork this pitching staff with nothing more than rubber bands and duct tape. Frankly, I’ve been quite impressed with the starting pitching they’ve been able to find and how they’ve been doing. Oh, sure it could have been shear dumb luck. But, when Kennedy comes in and pitches 5 innings, only allowing 2 runs in 5 innings before allowing 2 more runs in the 6th and being lifted? Lively has the 2nd lowest ERA of all the starters we have right now, and he wasn’t even in the rotation at the beginning of the season. I mean, for the most part, we’ve been winning with our #6, 7, 8, and even the #9, 10, 11, and 12th men in the rotation. And, I’ve been impressed with how they’ve been doing. Maybe it’s been me, because I’ve been expecting them to give up 6, 8, 10 runs a game regularly. But, it just hasn’t happened.

      Nope, it’s simply more than obvious, CES isn’t our “answer”. We simply couldn’t hit last night. It has happened. It happens to every team during some games every season. A minor leaguer isn’t the answer. Especially when our offense is in the top 6 in the NL in every important offensive category, offense isn’t our problem.

      Nope, it’s not our offense that has been primarily been the reason we’ve been winning. It’s quite obvious, our bullpen as well as the job our front office has done in finding pitchers to rest our overused and injured staff, I believe, has been extraordinary.

      Our problem is pitching. Everyone knows this. We’ve missed our top 3 starters for most of the season; the top 2 are still out. Our bullpen has been overworked. We either need starters to go later into the innings, or we need our front office to keep finding more relievers to spell our current ones so that our bullpen will stay fresh.

      Seriously, I read posts like this, and I could swear I’ve heard stories like this before. I believe it was called Chicken Little.

      • Chris

        With all do respect, you novel above is ridiculous. The fact is, each time a rookie has been called up he has jolted this offense. Secondly, you act as though Burnes is a current Cy Young. He’s not, and frankly I heard nothing but crickets in respect to the game before last night. TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW, ZERO runs. You think that’s not a problem, when we have two players on this team that literally are no longer beneficial to this team? Oh, and never mind that the PITCHING has given up just 2 runs in the last two games, but that’s the huge problem right now, correct? If you are going to blast people’s opinions, at least argue yours fully, and don’t base it on ONE game.

    • MBS

      @Steve, You can type all you want, but CES is a better hitter than anyone on our bench. It’s really that simple.

      • jon

        The length of his posts are amazing. Does anyone read every word. GEEZ.

  3. VaRedsFan

    Burnes is good, but the last I checked, he wasn’t undefeated and had an ERA of 4.00 before facing the Reds a week ago.

    Everybody slumping at the same time, then they start pressing, and now things are snowballing.

    Bell put a halt to the running game tonight.
    Mclain, Friedl, and Benson were all on with plenty of pitches to run on, and stayed anchored. Benson tried once and the ball was fouled.

    • Chad Wilson

      Thank you, this Offense needs a spark. This kid deserves to be on this roster as much as any of them. I truly think he will bring the much needed spark we need to win the NL Central. We do not need to kick the can down the road anymore. Get the Kid of the Midnight train to Cincy!!

  4. Indy Red Man

    18 Ks and didn’t hit 1 ball hard. Thats as weak a hitting performance as I’ve ever seen from our Reds. Most no-no’s atleast have a few bullets here and there

    India 7-39 in July and Ks non-stop with a few double plays sprinkled in for fun, but yeah its not your time CES.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      So, you have CES playing 2nd base? Alright.

      • Chris

        Another dishonest take, but at least it wasn’t a page long.

  5. LT

    Old fashion, beautiful baseball game. It stinks that we lost.

  6. TJ

    I know the Brewers don’t have a great offense, but I’m super pumped about Ashcraft and the way he’s pitched since he’s come off the IL.

    • RedlegScott

      Agree, TJ. 2 hits and 18 K’s isn’t going to cut it, but our pitching was great tonight, especially Ashcraft.

      • Indy Red Man

        Lively did it too though. I think alot of it is Milw can’t hit. SF usually goes ape s in Gabp so lets see how we do then

    • redfanorbust

      Hey TJ. Agreed. This is key, the continued trending upward of one of our main starters, something we really needed. A lot of posters will complain about the loss and lack of hitting today. Yeah it stings but we ran into a buzzsaw of a pitcher and he was having a good night. We are a young team and it’s bound to happen. If our starters can keep us in games and not wear out our bullpen our hitters will keep us winning. Not ever pitcher we will face will be a Burnes.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      I will say that, also. Well, I see both ways on that. I mean, it was obvious to me that he didn’t have his best stuff; I didn’t like that. But, it was obvious he was still getting the job done; I did like that. And, that can be the point in time where a pitcher actually starts to learns how to pitch. One of the things being. . .if you don’t have your “good stuff”, can you still get outs? And, Ashcraft was able to do that. I would just rather see him do that with his good stuff.

  7. Ted Alfred

    As bad as the last two games have been offensively, the Lively and Ashcraft starts have been fantastic. Starting pitching is/has been the biggest liability on this team, but the long term outlook in the 2nd half improves quite a bit if we get anything close to the last two games from them going forward. Maybe it allows Krall to hold off on making trades so we can keep the farm system intact while waiting for Lodolo and Greene to get back. I think that would be ideal for the long term future health of the Reds.

  8. RedsGettingBetter

    Ok Ok, Milwaukee has good pitching but come on isn’t unhittable either, let’s be honest… Two shutouts in a streak with 32 Ks is absurd especially for the offense showed by the Reds in more than a month…Something is cold off, maybe it is pressure, just a bad moment, underperforming against Brewers one more time, I don’t know, although, I’m sure this is not the rule…Hopefully tomorrow the team comes back to the scoreboard frequently to compense the average-law and Abbott will dominate them again as the first time…

    • Ted Alfred

      It is painfully obvious this young Reds team is really pressing, but it’s just part of the learning process. They are learning hard lessons about what it will take to win these types of games. They are learning what it takes to win games against better teams when the pressure is ramped up and the games mean more, so that ultimately you’re capable of someday holding that World Series trophy from the lessons you’re learning now.

      • Indy Red Man

        Yep. No real pressure when they played LA or Atlanta because nobody expected anything, but go into the AS break in 1st place and thats something different. I hope they grow up fast because Milw isn’t that good and the division is winnable

  9. SF Hunter

    Let’s get Weaver out there tomorrow to jump start this offense!

  10. Jon

    I’m still not convinced Fraley is the long-term answer in RF, much less batting third. Hoping Krall looks to upgrade that position this winter.

    • Indy Red Man

      He’s over 900 ops vs righties. I don’t know what else he can do

      • Jim Walker

        Using Fraley as the DH Friday amounted to a tacit admission he is no better than the 4th best OF on a team that only carries 3 guys primarily as OF.

    • Chad Wilson

      Why not call up CES bat 3rd, Elly 4th, Steer 5th in my opinion. Frailey 6, Benson 7 Votto 8 and or Stephenson and try India 9 and or Stephenson .. it would be nice to possibly have a leadoff in the 9th to flip it over to the top
      I like India a lot, and really hope he turns it around or something but at the same time the big leagues is supposed to be about winning, so let’s put our best out there and try to win

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        Easy to say “bat”. Where to field?

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      Now, something you mention there is something I would live to see Krall do over the off season.

      I always go back to the BRM of the 70’s at this moment. Everyone knows Sparky rarely played his “Big 8” together during the season, regularly giving 1-2 of them a day off each week. But, when Sparky wanted to win a game, or knew he needs to win a game, or in the post season, we all knew who Sparky was going to play, as well as pretty much the batting order.

      As is, with the IF, I believe we are pretty much set for this season: C – Stephenson, 1st – Votto, 2nd – India, SS – McLain, 3rd – Elly. Not that I don’t believe improvements can still be made here, whether by the player or the FO (i.e. India needs to improve, or the FO could improve our 2nd base).

      But, the OF, I only know Friedl in CF. Who are the other 2 OF’s? I simply haven’t been able to tell. Benson? Fraley? Steer? Senzel? Maybe it’s me, and Bell has been looking at a platoon deal. I can understand it more than most, but I’ve never been that much of a fan about platooning. As a former athlete, I can understand the importance of being able to get regular playing time, also. You know, as a regular player.

      But, then, also, with the batting order. I mean, one game I see Friedl as the leadoff hitter, next game in the 9-hole? That makes no sense to me.

      And, I’m not one who reacts like Chicken Little and thinks the player has had it simply because they have an “0 for” game. But, India has gotten worse and worse. In June, he barely beat the Mendoza line. In July, he’s under it. And, for the longest time, Bell has been rolling him out in the 3 hole. I just kept on thinking, “Why is Bell trying to make India a 3 hole hitter? Move him. India has had most his success as the leadoff hitter. Move him there or drop him to #9.” And, Bell finally drops him. . .to the 5 hole, a position that a hitter like India still isn’t cut out for, like the 3 hole. Bell needs to simply drop this experiment of his and either move India where he has had most his success, leadoff, or drop him to the 9-hole.

      Benson is the one who should be in the 5 hole. He only has been leading the Reds in most offensive categories since he’s been called back up.

      I mean, elementary school knowledge, better batters go first, the worse batters go last. India is not one of the better batters on this team right now. He deserves to go last. If anywhere else, put him where he’s had most his success, first. Friedl and Benson are 2 of the better hitters right now. They belong up in the order, not down in the order.

  11. CFD3000

    Wow. Suddenly the sky has fallen? Tip your cap and move on to tomorrow. I didn’t see the game and I’m sure the Reds looked listless. Maybe they should have been more aggressive on the bases. But. It’s just one loss. In a long season. And Graham Ashcraft had his third straight really good start. I choose to be optimistic, or at the very least to see the positives here. Whole new game tomorrow and a chance to again be a full game up on the Brewers. Bring it on. Go Reds!

    • TJ

      CFD…..right on. One game. Last two games were tough losses. Youngsters are pressing? Check with me in a week or so and let’s talk

    • Jim Walker

      This is the point of view Bell has to sell to the team. They cannot afford a 3-7 start out of the All Star break like they had in 2021 when they were also in playoff contention.

      Last year they managed to go 6-4 out of the break but by then they were already ensconced in last place.

    • Still a Red

      I watched through the 6th. Reds didn’t look listless, they looked fooled. Hats off to Coburne. In re: to the running game, my impression is the players have a green light. There really wasn’t a lot of opportunity to run. Lots of strike outs. In a tight game like that, with the pitcher on you may be more cautious.

  12. Ted Alfred

    Very winnable this year and likely will be a much tougher division in the years ahead. Get it done when the opportunity presents itself.

    • Chad Wilson

      CES deserves the shot, can’t be no worse than some. There is no way you can tell me he not ready. Kid should have been on the same taxi as the others. You make room for guys like these. Sometimes you will have to sit or let guys go but that’s part of it
      CES should be in lineup tomorrow as far as I’m concerned

  13. Indy Red Man

    Melvin brought up a good point earlier too. How is Casali or Newman going to help you late in a game like this? They’re throwing righties so Newman doesn’t help. Casali never does anything. If you want to play CES every day then fine, but what about Ramos and/or Fairchild? Fairchild gives you pinch-runner and defensive sub help and has some pop while Ramos gives you a good at-bat as a switch-hitter. Say Votto walks late then they run Senzel but he’s not the baserunner that Fairchild is

    • Jim Walker

      The last month our guy Fairchild was up, he had a .989 OPS in 39 PAs in 13 game appearances (10 starts). The full Avg/OBP/SLG/OPS line was .281/.395/.594/.989. He had 8K (20.5%) against 5BB (12.8%); 2HR; 2SB vs 0CS.

      Yet he got sent down when the Reds chose to keep Newman and Senzel because of their extremely high OPS skew vs LH pitching (not to mention keeping the 3rd catcher). This is the opportunity cost of playing pure and straight platoon baseball.

      It is illogical for the Reds to continue in this vein when they have a guy in CES who can OPS from both sides at a rate similar to what they are getting out of the Fraley/ Senzel platoon and also have a handedness proof OF in Fairchild who is also a weapon on the base paths.

      Fraley? Make him into the traditional LH hitting bench bat that can be spotted into leverage situations where the opposition cannot bring on a LH pitcher to face him.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        Well, I can understand the logic of the platoon of Senzel/Fraley and not CES because CES doesn’t play the OF. I can understand the Fairchild reference with it, also. But, Fairchild is only one OF position. The other one?

        Bench Fraley? The person who leads the Reds in RBI’s this season, even though he hasn’t played in 17 of our games? That wouldn’t make sense.

      • Jim Walker

        @Steve>>> Except for solo home runs, RBIs are as much a function of the men on base for a hitter to drive in as the hitter’s own effort.

        Any hitter performing at the same OPS level as Fraley should have about the same number of RBIs as Fraley if they bat in the same situations as Fraley.

        By way of a specific comparison of CES (AAA numbers for 2023) and Fraley (2023 MLB numbers), CES has hit homers (20) about once every 15.5 PAs; and, Fraley has hit homers (11) once about every 24 PAs. CES Total Bases per PA rate is .557. Fraley’s Total Bases per PA rate is .400. Even allowing for the typical diminishing of CES’s rates at the MLB level, he would seem to project to match or exceed Fraley’s RBI production given the same opportunities Fraley has had.

  14. MBS

    Now we gotta take the next 2. If the Crew leave here tied, or god forbid ahead of the Reds, this will have been a major midseason meltdown. This is a playoff atmosphere, and the Reds are not rising to the occasion. I still got faith that they will grab a couple of W’s this weekend.

    Please bring up CES, and Fairchild, and complete this offense.

    • Indy Red Man

      I’d take one again but 2 would be huge. If we get one then we’re still tied for 1st and Milw still has to play Atlanta 6 times, Philly 6, and Miami 7. Our schedule is very favorable in September too, but these young guys have to learn fast. It might be too much too fast?

    • Still a Red

      A little early to declare midseason melt down. Where we are at end of July will tell our trajectory. That said, the organization does seem to get off to slow starts after All Star breaks, which if that happens again will give us all anxiety. But, its still 2.5 months of ball and as long as they are within striking distance, it will be exciting.

  15. PatTheBat

    Was wondering during Elly’s last ab, besides hitting a dinger (first choice, but not that likely) could he, would he drop down a bunt just to get his speed on the basepaths?Perhaps verboten as long as he is hitting cleanup… so probably hasn’t even attempted one in the weeks he’s been up? Could have been effective, even ‘electric’.

    • Friedl Green Tomatoes

      Still baffles me that Elly is batting cleanup while Benson bats 9th. Elly’s speed is electric and he can wreak havoc on the bases, but he’s as likely to strikeout as he is to put the ball in play. With a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, which of them would you rather have at the plate? Benson, and it ain’t close.

      Part of me thinks they’re just afraid to move him now because they set a precedent, he got hot, and now his young ego might take getting bumped down as a slight.

  16. Soto

    There is an old saying in baseball…”You’re only as good as tomorrow’s starting pitcher.” We got AA on the mound tomorrow. I feel pretty good about it. Peralta is 5-7 with a 4.70 ERA. I like our chances.

    • Friedl Green Tomatoes

      Fingers crossed. But if this is the offense that shows up tomorrow then Freddy Peralta is gonna look like Pedro Martinez.

      • Still a Red

        He pitched well against us last time.

  17. CI3J

    A rotation of

    Greene
    Lodolo
    Ashcraft
    Abbott
    Lively

    Looks pretty good to me.

    I’m still not sure the Reds should burn any prospects for a SP rental this season. They just need to hold down the fort until Greene and Lodolo are back, which should be about 1 more month. Then Williamson can move to the ‘pen and replace Cruz or Duarte, giving the Reds 2 lefties out of the ‘pen (finally). Lively as your #5 starter is not a terrible situation to be in.

    Personally, I still think if the Reds want to get another starter, the time to do it is in the offseason when the price won’t be so high and/or they can sign a FA.

    However, I trust Krall to make the right decision no matter what that may be.

    • Jon

      Reading Bell’s comments yesterday, it didn’t sound like he was optimistic that Lodolo would be back until at least late August.

  18. Jim Walker

    The AAA Bats came out of the break swinging away on Friday.

    CES and Fairchild both went 3/4, with a BB and 2 runs scored. SF had 2 RBI, CES 1 RBI. Both have AAA OPS>1.000. Bring these guys up or trade them for pitching ASAP.

    Chuckie Robinson also had a big night going 3/5 with 2RBI. His seasonal OPS is now .909. If the Reds must have 3 catchers, maybe he should be one of them?? Or somebody must need a backup catcher and have decent relief arm they’d give in return??

    And lest I forget, TJ Hopkins may be doing a Will Benson routine after his shaky stint with the Reds. TJ was 2/5 Friday and currently has a .946 OPS at AAA.

  19. Tomn

    They Reds needed to force Burnes out of his comfort zone. If they keep flailing away, he is content to pitch from the mound 12-15 pitches an inning and walk back to the dugout.

    The Reds need to make him move off the mound. Bunt! Make him make a defensive play throwing out a runner. Or bunt between 1st and second and have to race one of the Reds speedsters to 1b to cover a throw from the 1b man. Do it a lot. See what kind of shape he is in. He almist passed out in the 5th inning as it was. Maybe he will tire just enough that he’ll leave a couple of change ups out and over the plate.

    If one of our batters collides with Burnes as he’s hurrying to cover 1st, so be it. That’s baseball.

    As other posters point out he has an era around 4. Hes lost 5 games. What are other teams doing to beat him? Are they just better than the Reds?

    I agree its time for CES. We need another spark to this offense. The MILW 3rd baseman was playing deep all night except for agaunst friedl. Edlc and benson should have been bunting to get on base and create havoc. But it seems like suddenly the reds were playing to hit HRs.

    While 41k fans sat there waiting for excitement.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      Yes, an offense that is in the top 6 in every important offensive category in the NL needs a minor leaguer to come up and cure all of its offensive woes.

      Let’s don’t react like Chicken Little.

      • Harry Stoner

        And your plan is to continue to stick your head in the sand.

        Bringing up a talented hitter who has been performing at a high level since ST is ‘panicking’?

        Hmmm.
        McLain was a ‘minor leaguer’.
        EDLC was a ‘minor leaguer’.
        Steer was a ‘minor leaguer’.
        Benson was a ‘minor leaguer’.
        Friedl was a ‘minor leaguer’.
        Abbott was a ‘minor leaguer’.

        I wonder what your next lame excuse will be?

        I’m sure you’ll come up with something.

  20. TR

    All is not lost. Tied for NLC lead. Abbott goes today. After the four day break, this young team needs an offensive jolt and we know who that is.

  21. Erik the Red

    When we have good starting pitching we need to win period. This could be a case now they have a lot more pressure on them now. Let’s see how this home stand plays out.

  22. Pete

    We are playing with house money this season. Let’s not forget it. More importantly, let’s hope the guys that are on the field. Don’t forget it. Just enjoy and have fun.

  23. Reddawg2012

    For the last month or so, I’ve had myself convinced that the Reds were very likely the best team in the NLC. Not too sure about that anymore. But that’s okay. This is an extremely young group and expecting them to go wire to wire in the second half was probably unrealistic. Looking at the rest of the July schedule, times are probably going to get even tougher. We will see if this team can withstand all the tests they have coming up. If they can stay afloat until mid-August (that’s a big if), the schedule lightens up a bit, and hopefully Greene and Lodolo come back at that time. Regardless, the future is bright.

    • Pete

      I think you are exactly right and great point! If this will be the sentiment in the clubhouse, the Reds will look far more like the team pre-Milwaukee Brewers than the one we are seeing now. But if they continue to press and reflect the general sentiment that I’m seeing here at RLN, then we are probably in for a tough stretch of games for a while.

  24. GreatRedLegsFan

    I guess the result of these nine games against the Brewers (1-3 so far) will determine the fate of the Reds for this season. Facing one of the most effective pitching staffs will show their true capabilities. My concern is, as like from many others, is that they still have Newman, Casali and Maile in the roster when CES, Fairchild and Robinson are scorching AAA, at least go for it with the best players available.

  25. Kmac99

    Weird vibe in game. No smiles on faces tonight, did not seem ‘loose’ at all from first inning on. Seem to be pressing to me. First place will do that especially if you’re not used to being there

  26. Roger Garrett

    Reds need the best roster they can have going forward because its the right thing to do.Newman at first or as the DH against lefties and Casali catching once or twice every 8 or 10 games are just a waste of roster spots IMO.Fairchild and of course CES just bring more to the table.Not about back to back 1-0 losses at all its just the right thing to do.Burnes for the second straight start just toyed with this young team and so will other pitchers.Get ahead with hard stuff and bounce slow stuff.He could have told them which he pretty much did what was coming and they still could not have hit it.If they are going to go anywhere this year they will have to make the adjustments they need to make.Reds had chances early but just went station to station and against any decent pitcher that will get you beat.Running opens up holes and causes the batter to focus more on putting the ball in play or at least it should.Bell needs to shake things up some with the lineup and how they attack Peralta today.If he doesn’t we will see the same thing again.No he isn’t Burnes but its obvious Counsell knows what he is doing and you can bet Peralta was watching.GO REDS

  27. Tom W

    One thing that burns me up are the amount of 0-2 pitches that are thrown for strikes and get hit hard.

  28. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Well, it didn’t take long for the CES chants to come out. Just one game, like always, just one game, and boom. . .an offense that is in the top 6 in every offensive category in the NL, bringing up a minor leaguer is going to cure all of its ills.

    Has anyone ever read Chicken Little? Oh, I know, there are teams regularly in baseball each season who never get shut out. . .is that right? Or, if they do get shut out, they all are calling up their main minor leaguer to cure all of their aching offensive ills, even if they do lead the league in offense, even if they have to cut time from the same players who were main players in making that top offense?

    Please. . .if this keeps up for something like a week or more, then come see me. See me when the offense drops to 12th in the league, or even 10th. Till then, that’s still a non-issue.

    We all know what our weakness is. . .pitching. We all know the state of our starting rotation. We all know the state of our bullpen; maybe not this moment, sure. But, just before the break? Our 2 main starters are injured (3 of our top 4 we started the season with); will they even come back performing like our 2 main guys? And, our bullpen will get taxed again, vastly likely. That’s my concern.

    That’s why last night, though I still would have made the change, part of me was still thinking about keeping Ashcraft out there (again, for the haters, I specified “I still would have made the change”). So that I get “in the practice” of getting every out from our starters I can before I bring in my bullpen. Oh, if I put Ashcraft back out there, I would have had him on a short leash. But, I would have considered it. For, “taxing the bullpen” has to start with “the first time”.

    • Indy Red Man

      Man you’re gonna ride this into the ground…lol. Nobody said CES will be a 1 man wrecking crew, but there is no reason not to field the best roster you can. I know you think CES will be Brandon Larson II, but actual baseball scouts are pretty sure he can better Kevin Newman at the plate. Casali, Newman, and Weaver. Or atleast Casali and Weaver….please tell me why we need them?

      • Indy Red Man

        Or when did India pop 1.000+ ops in the minors? Answer is he didn’t! Make the tough move and play CES over India. Steer to 3B and it betters your defense. CES is better defensively at 1B then Joey. Steer is too so I’m not sure why Votto plays 1B so much?

      • Doug Gray

        India also didn’t get to accumulate any stats at all in 2020. It’s not exactly a fair comparison.

        And no, CES is in no way, shape, or form better than Votto defensively at first base.

      • Indy Red Man

        Really? A Reds talking head on WLW reported that CES had 5 runs saved at 1B about a month ago. Votto can scoop, but he’s the range of the stars of “My 600 lb life”

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        “there is no reason not to field the best roster you can”

        Oh, yes, let’s just play all Trout’s, why don’t we? Just a couple of questions? Who’s going to play the corner OFs? Who’s going to play the IF positions? C? Who’s going to play all 13 pitching positions? Got it, all the Trouts. Because Trout is the key to making the offense great.

        It’s quite obvious you are mistaking the “best players” with “the best team” or “the best combination of players to make a team”. There is no role for CES on this team right now. He would be nothing more than a part-timer up here. He’s better playing full-time in the minors. I’m confident he’s learned plenty from Votto playing with him during ST and during Votto’s rehab stints down there. It’s not like Votto is a stranger to him.

        Again, see me when our offense drops to 12th or even 10th. Then, our offense will need dire fixing along the lines of personnel replacement.

      • Indy Red Man

        You win. CES stinks, but you keep bringing up talking points that make no sense. What does CES have to do with corner OFers?

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        With the kind of knowledge Doug has about the entire Reds organization himself, and you are going to compare Doug to “My 600 lb life”?

        “CES is better defensively at 1B then Joey.”

        Oh, really. Let’s see about that, why don’t we. . .
        Votto career fielding % at first – 0.994
        CES – 0.986
        This year?
        Votto – 1.000
        CES – 0.988

        Dude, you’re whacked. Go back and read Chicken Little.

      • Indy Red Man

        Ok then McLain vs India at 2B then? And I didn’t compare Doug to anyone. I said Votto has no range which is true and has been for 4-5 years atleast

    • Rob

      I think it was both managers desire to use their bullpen to some degree last night. 4 days off without any action. Both bullpens in same situation and both were used 3 innings last night. Both were effective. I wouldn’t be surprised to see similar tonite.

      I have the same concern as you about our bullpen and possible fatigue in August. But last night, I don’t think possible fatigue was high on anyone’s priority list. I actually hope we get a boatload of 6-7 inning starts the 2H.

  29. Still a Red

    One thing to keep in mind, besides whatever pressure being in 1st brings, is that this is a young team, many of whom have not played a full major league season…they could tire. It will be important for Bell to keep the team loose, thinking positive, and to keep everyone fresh (which like it or not will mean shuffling people in and out).

  30. Still a Red

    Who to bat first is an interesting dilemma. Clearly Friedl is an effective lead off batter. India was at least at one time. The eye-test would say he does better in the 1-slot, but do the stats bear that out. Certainly his rookie year, probably yes…but last year not so much. Is he better in the 1-slot than Friedl? What is India’s strength (some power would make him worthy of the 3 slot…contact?…speed?) Maybe you put India in the 1-slot against lefties. We may have to accept India’s rookie year will be his best.

    • Indy Red Man

      India has a .392 obp leading off an inning this year over 104 at-bats and .376 batting leadoff over 184 at-bats. So Joe Q Public doesn’t appear to be wrong on that one

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      Last year was when Bell started his experiment with India, trying to bat him in the 2 hole. Bell needed to lay off India and just had let him do his thing with India at leadoff. Not, he’s ruined India.

      I will specify, Bell isn’t alone in this. India has just as much if not more blame, also. He’s the one standing in the box and actually swinging the bat. Has he been trying to do too much? Trying to do something he’s not use to doing?

      Whatever is to blame, whoever is to blame, it doesn’t make a difference. India is not a 3 hole hitter, is not a 5 hole hitter. If he is starting, he belongs either in the 9 hole or say for a couple of games to get his mind back. If this was Votto, Votto has “earned the right” to play through his slump. India hasn’t earned that yet, I feel.

      • Indy Red Man

        I completely agree so I better get another cup of coffee))

  31. Roger Garrett

    Its one game but they all count.No panic for me cause I never expected much this year any way.Reds are in a slump at the plate.Won the last game against the Nats with only 5 hits and have lost now 3 out of four against the Brewers twice on 1-0 scores.Doesn’t change anything about this team for me other then they are learning on the job and they will learn.Reds roster can be improved IMO because if they lack anything on offense its power.Newman nor Casali help in that area at all and Fairchild and CES can help.Newman’s role is to hit lead off at first or DH against lefties and Casali catches once in awhile.Pitching is our weakness or better yet starting pitching is our weakness but when you get it you have to win those games.Its fools gold to assume the Reds will continue to get down 4 or 5 runs and come back to win every time.If we do believe that then lets just open with Weaver the next 3 games and play on.Not that I am looking ahead but if we do play in the post season power bats and power arms usually make the difference.Reds have too much talent and a deep lineup not to score but for me the roster can be and should be improved to give us a better chance to win regardless if its 1-0 or 10-9.CES can make a difference with his bat in close games and Fairchild with his speed defense and pop can as well regardless of facing a righty or lefty.Newman won’t see a righty and well Casali doesn’t see the field.

    • Old-school

      Agree Roger.

      Hopefully they get the W tonight.

      Ashcraft back dealing is a positive development

      Sometimes it takes a minute spinning your tires to get over the hump

      Reds didnt play Pirates great in 1990… until they did

  32. Soto

    Steve, Stock, Doug, does anyone have the Reds DH numbers? I would be interesting in seeing how the Reds DH position is hitting compared to the rest of the league. David Schoenfield wrote an interesting piece on ESPN last month about how unproductive the DH position is for most team’s that rotate their DH. The article was called “MLB’s problem with designated hitters who can’t hit” I think Steve and some others on RLN, are thinking about CES in the wrong light. It is my belief that the Reds could have a huge statistical advantage over the other teams in the Central if they would stop rotating guys at DH and use CES as their main DH on most days. I believe his production at every level has shown that he deserves the opportunity. This offense has carried the team, but it’s hard to imagine that it wouldn’t be better with a true power hitter with balanced splits in the middle of the order. The only change that would need to be made is instead of rotating guys into the DH, you actually give them a true day off once every 7 or 8 days and have much better late inning pinch hitting possibilities as a result. Seems like a win, win to me.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      Now, I will specify, Soto, that I have talked about how the Reds should “standardize” their positions a bit more.

      I mean. . .I always turn back to the BRM of the 70’s. Everyone knows Sparky rarely played the Big 8 together. First, the Big 8-1 or 2 were still good enough to win a majority of games. But, also, when Sparky wanted to win a game, needed to win a game, post season, everyone knew who Sparky was going to play and where.

      For us, I would say the IF is pretty much set, and C. I would say CF is set. But, what about the corner OF’s? Benson? Fraley? Senzel? Steer? Just who is the DH?

      I mean, I can understand platooning and would probably do it. But, I don’t look to do it every chance I get. I believe the more a team platoons is not good. For, as a former athlete, I understand how regular playing time would be important for me to keep my skills up.

      Not only at the major league level, but at the minors, also, like with our prospects. I’ve written how, with the expected arrival dates, we are slated to have 4 SS’s in 2026. Why do we need 4 SS’s in 2026? Something needs to be done.

      Maybe call it “depth chart” for each position. Like, who’s our 1st baseman now? Who’s plan B (talking minors, prospect)? Who’s our SS now? Who’s plan B (talking minors, prospect)? Doing that, for every position. If a minor leaguer can double up, fine. Just make the plan.

      Oh, and I do agree with the DH. For, again, it’s the regular playing time. And, that is where the Reds could improve, 13th in the NL. However, again, most everyone who has batted DH has had important positions with the team this year. Like Fraley yesterday? Replace him yesterday with a minor leaguer? Fraley leads the team in RBI’s, having played in 16 fewer games than everyone else. If anyone has been Mr. Clutch for us, it’s been Fraley. Does he deserve to have his playing time cut by a minor leaguer? Benson when he’s been DH? He’s only led the league in most every offensive category since his callup? Votto? He leads the team in OPS the last I looked? What have those players done to deserve to have their playing time cut for a minor leaguer? They will just have to live with having their playing time cut?

      I believe it is important for players to have regularity. I mean, getting up in the morning, thinking, “I’m going to start at SS today.” Driving to the game, thinking, “Alright, I need to do this then this then this. And, I will get some extra work on this.” And, going about that plan. The same holding for all players, all positions, starters and bench players.

      I believe regular playing time is important. I mean, when one considers, like Fraley and his 0.100 BA against LH pitchers, does that come from he simply sucks against LH? Or, does that come from he doesn’t get a regular opportunity to see LH pitching and, thus, not use to hitting against it? Where, if he got more regular time against LH pitching, would he get better at it?

      Stats are numbers. Number don’t lie. But, people have a great tendency to read things into numbers that simply aren’t there. Like after last night, people are reading our offense sucks, when that is hardly the case. It’s not like there aren’t teams, good teams, great teams, that will get shut out during the season. But, people see the “0” last night, see the additional “L” in that column, then they think Chicken Little.

      Same like with the Brewers. The stats say they are the worst offensive team in the league. But, they still scored 10 runs in one game against the Padres. So, then, there will be people thinking, “There, the Brewers offense is out of its funk now.” Well, no, that didn’t happen.

      I was brought up that regularity for players is important. That the bench players were there to give the starters rest, all of the starters, not to platoon with single players.

      You do pose a very good point.

      • Soto

        Steve, I agree. I would prefer more stability in the lineup. It does seem that Bell is trending that way. Newman’s playing time has been cut. Casali rarely catches. One way or the other it’s time for them to go. Newman has done a nice job, but they no longer need another utility infielder. Although he is a solid backup, he does not have Fairchild’s speed or the power of either Frairchild or CES. He simply isn’t their best bench option. But I don’t think asking a player to take a day off every 7 or 8 days instead of DHing should be considered cutting their playing time. Especially when that day of DHing hasn’t been very productive anyway.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        One thing to remember about bench players. We aren’t going to find bench players batting 300. If they were, they would have been grabbed up and starting somewhere by now, probably starting. We aren’t going to find GG winners for bench players. If we could, they would have been grabbed up by now, possibly starting. “Bring minor leaguers up for bench players.” If we had minor leaguers who could bat 300 and GG defense, they would be starting for us. If they are in the minors, they probably have something to work on.

        Now, granted, at times, like with pinch hitters, one will come up and be a lifelong pinch hitter and bat well as a pinch hitter. I believe I remember the Reds trading for one specifically. But, that’s not the norm. That’s the exception.

        I would think even platoon players want to be regular players eventually. And, if their regular team isn’t giving them that opportunity, they will go elsewhere and get it.

        Those in the minors who are batting and fielding well, they are being groomed as starters in the majors. So, the big clubs will hesitate to send them to the major leagues if they have no role for them. Nope, they would have to move the athlete who is blocking them, or trade the minor leaguer.

      • Melvin

        I have to say every time you use the term “minor leaguer” it cracks me up. If it wasn’t for these “minor leaguers” we wouldn’t be in first place. Arguably the best hitting “minor leaguer” hasn’t even been up yet. You keep mentioning Sparky and the Big Red Machine. In my view you can bet your bottom dollar Sparky would want CES up and find a way to get him in the lineup on a regular basis in a pennant race. This is NOT the Big Red Machine anyway by a long shot. Totally different situation.

    • Jim Walker

      I don’t have the numbers at hand but my mind’s eye agrees with you and the Fangraphs article. The American League seemed to decide long ago that the DH for the most part should be considered a separate position and not be used to rotate lineup regulars through as a partial day off.

      Of course, with the 3rd catcher and 3-4 players with skewed handedness based high OPS for Bell’s platoon system, the roster spot for a dedicated DH doesn’t really exist.

      I’ll take a look around and see what I can find, perhaps in the Fangraphs leaderboard section.

      • Indy Red Man

        I just looked up Atlanta’s 2021 WS team. 4 regulars with a ton of at-bats and Acuna was injured. Catcher is kind of a different deal with fatigue, etc. So that leaves 3 spots that were basically platooned from what I can tell. That seems about normal for todays game. Its so specialized now

      • Indy Red Man

        Looks like Atlanta won the WS with basically the same 9 in every game though. Rosario led off vs rhp and dropped way down vs lefties.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        Platooning 3 spots is regular, simply because one team did it? Not at all.

      • Melvin

        Bell has used the DH spot this way from the very beginning starting in 2020.

      • Soto

        Thank you, Melvin, your logic seems pretty straightforward to me. I guess everyone just doesn’t think the way that we do.

      • Wayne Nabors

        Melvin I agree,he uses that term like it’s a farm for rejects,surely he knows that most all major leaguers were minor leaguers at some point

    • Jim Walker

      From Fangraphs (so the comp metric is wRC+ instead of OPS+), the Reds are 3rd from last in both all MLB and the NL (SD and Milwaukee are worse) with a DH wRC+ of 83 which is largely due to Stephenson’s heavy use at DH.

      The MLB top DH is Angels (i.e. Ohtani most days) at 180 wRC+. The top NL wRC+ for DH is Dodgers at 130 (3rd overall) after Boston in 2nd at 131 wRC+.

      Hopefully this link takes you to the completed table sorted by wRC+ and not just the query page.
      https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=dh&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2023&month=0&season1=2023&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2023-01-01&enddate=2023-12-31&sort=18,d

      • Soto

        Awesome Jim! Thank you so much. I think we are both on the same page. The rotating DH is just not an effective use of the position. The DH needs to be looked at as a position. I’m not sure you could design a better hypothetical DH than CES. He reminds me so much of Edgar Martinez. If the Reds could get 80s of Edgar’s production with CES as a full-time DH it would be a huge advantage. I think that info would be great to share on an up to date thread.

      • Melvin

        Interesting Jim. In other words we haven’t done to well with it huh? 🙂

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      Or, maybe put it this way. . .

      CES is ready for the majors. So, let’s bring him up, start him at first base, and let Casali go. Votto loses playing time? So what.

      Don’t want to So, DH CES? Then, what about all the players who have been getting their additional playing time, when the bench players have been taking their regular positions, by DH’ing? But, if it wasn’t right for Votto to lose playing time, why would it be right for all of the players who have been DHing to lose playing time?

      Like today, in order to get Steer some playing time in the OF, Benson is DH’ing today. If Benson doesn’t DH, he would be benched. What did Benson do to lose his playing time for a minor leaguer? If Benson was in LF and Steer DHing, what did Steer do to lose playing time to a minor leaguer?

      Or, Steer has played 4 positions this season, as well as DH. There’s nothing regular about that. We could DH him just as well; that would be regular time at DH.

      We could have Tyler DH. We have already said out of the 3 C’s, Tyler has the best bat. Start Maile; he has the best defense. Casali would be the backup and calls the best game. That’s regular.

      I never said CES wasn’t ready. He is.

      I never said we couldn’t get CES up here and fairly easily. We can.

      How to get him playing time without costing others playing time who has done nothing to deserve losing playing time, that’s the problem. Not without another corresponding move. It wouldn’t be right/fair for all of them to adjust their playing positions, to each lose a bit of their time, just for a minor leaguer to DH, at least IMO.

      Best move for that would probably be moving India, aka trading him off. But, still, we would need to find a team who would want India. Who would want India right now? As well as, we would be lucky to get a 2nd string C for Dayton in the trade. But, that could make McLain 2nd, something he hasn’t played much of this year, Elly to SS, something he hasn’t played much of this year, probably Steer to 3rd, something he hasn’t played much of this year. Which means, just to get make CES at DH, we would be moving 2 players to new positions/not regular, 1 one regular/something he isn’t use to.

      Or, simply, for a regular DH, make it Steer.

      • Melvin

        Sitting out from the starting lineup one game is NOT the same as being benched. It’s a rotation of nine guys for eight spots. Keeping all the regulars fresh and the bench stronger. There have been many go over this time and time again. You ignoring it does not keep it from being true. Stephenson just catches or sits.

      • Harry Stoner

        This is about the most confused set of ‘arguments’ you have posted yet for not bringing up CES.

        Reads like a summary mish mash of all the lame rationales you been posting for weeks.

        They weren’t convincing on their own, and the illogic is only compounded when you string them together ad absurdum.

        For those of us wondering to what extremes of nonsense you would come up with next, you’ve delivered:

        If a player sits for an evening (rest, match-ups, rotation) he is summarily “benched” in your strange world.

        Just when one thinks you can’t come up with an even more lame argument…you do!

        You’re on a real streak here.

        I know you’re itching to keep it up, right?

        As much as I’d like to see CES called up, it is fascinating, albeit in a strange way, to see what are the next bizarre hoops that you’ll jump through to support your weak, weak arguments.

      • Friedl Green Tomatoes

        +1,000,000,000,000 Harry. Steve always conveniently forgets that EDLC, McClain and Abbott were minor leaguers 8 weeks ago, doesn’t he?

        Although I think it’s unfair to say Steve’s arguments keep getting more absurd. That implies he isn’t just rephrasing (or lazily copy-pasting) his “BuT hE’s a MiNoR LeAgUeR” drivel ad nauseum.

  33. Mark Moore

    Tough loss for sure. Burnes was on to a great extent and we helped out more than a little. The offensive funk was painful to watch.

    Shake it off and go out tonight backing Abbott. Win tonight and then think about Sunday afterward. July into August will be tough regardless, so letting the Bernies live rent free in our heads won’t solve anything.

    Still find it amusing how frustrated we get at the losses given what we expected in the first place. Back to that Hope thing, right? 😀

  34. Indy Red Man

    Elly had 6 walks in his first 8 games. He’s had 2 walks in his last 23. How do they help a young guy figure it out? Tell him not to swing until they throw a breaking ball for a strike. Idk? He’s obviously got a high baseball IQ and I’ve never seen anyone in my life get more breaking balls except maybe Barrero

    • Soto

      IRM, I would like to see him moved up in the order and be instructed to concentrate on OB% and causing havoc on the basepaths. With his bat speed, contact will lead to him running into some homers. He just needs to fine tune his pitch identification and selection. He will be fine.

      • Indy Red Man

        Agree, but its still hard to watch. He was mentally beat like Barrero last night. 2 strikes and everyone knew they were bouncing a breaking ball and everyone knew he was swinging. You have to learn thru failure though. I’m in sales which is somewhat the same. If I get 1 nice sale in 15 contacts then I’m doing ok. You have to think like they think….mirror them

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      I simply still haven’t been impressed with Elly and his batting. “You mean he hit that 450 HR and you weren’t impressed?” One AB. “You mean he hit for the cycle and you weren’t impressed?” One game. And, you saw last night, and you were impressed?

      I’m not talking about when Elly does get hits. I’m talking about when Elly doesn’t get hits. I just don’t see Elly taking good swings at the balls. Just not taking good swings but also taking good swings with a good eye. Good hitters don’t just look good when they get hits. They also look good when they don’t get hits. I don’t see that enough from Elly.

      The numbers may show he’s still gotten on, but he definitely shows he still has a lot to learn.

      • Frankie Tomatoes

        Yes Steve a 21 year old rookie still has a lot to learn. He is hitting well. He had a bad game against a guy who has been a Cy Young contender the last three years. A lot of guys look bad and have bad looking swings against him.

      • Indy Red Man

        He’s not only 21, but he’s 6’5. There’s not much to screw up with McLains swing, but 6’5 is another story.
        Positives are he goes the other way all the time and he doesn’t seem to pop up plus of course the crazy bat speed. Once he gets his walks up then look out. He might do 30/70 every year

      • Tyler Hawk

        Agree 100% about Elly at this point. He’s not as polished as Steer or Mclain when it comes to competitive at bats and often swings at breaking balls that don’t even start as strikes out of the pitchers hand. His ceiling is higher and he is still young but he’s got a long way to go against pitchers with decent off speed stuff because he’s not going to get piped fastballs anytime soon

  35. Soto

    MM, I never make a big deal about good pitching shutting down a good offense. I’ve watched too much baseball over the years for that. It happens. This team’s offense will be fine. They just need to not press and trust what got them there. Keep running and playing for each other… But, the offense could be better. It’s time to maximize their potential. CES and Fairchild need to be up.

  36. Frankie Tomatoes

    Watching this one I just kept thinking the would get that hit to tie the game up but it never came. Guess that is the sign of a good team. You expect that to happen. Go get them tonight.

  37. Steve Schoenbaechler

    I will say, someone mentioned earlier, what we should have been doing, as soon as we saw Burnes coming down with heat exhaustion, was start bunting. Make him make plays beyond pitching.