Nick Senzel made the game’s biggest defensive and offensive plays in the final two innings to pace the Cincinnati Reds to a 5-4 10-inning victory over the Washington Nationals before 10,064 at Nationals Park.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cincinnati Reds (49-39) | 5 | 6 | 0 |
| Washington Nationals (34-53) |
4 | 8 | 0 |
| W: Santillan (1-0) L: Harvey (3-4) Sv: Diaz (25) |
|||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
Senzel’s amazing, running catch with the game tied in the bottom of the ninth prevented the Nationals from winning the game in regulation time. Then, on the first pitch of the top of the 10th, he crushed what turned into the game-winning homer.
The win — Cincinnati’s fifth straight, and 18th in their past 21 road games — moved the Reds to 10 games over .500, and kept them two games ahead of the second-place Milwaukee Brewers, who won today against the Chicago Cubs. This comes ahead of what is probably the franchise’s biggest series of the past decade — three at Milwaukee beginning Friday night.
The win also completed a four-game sweep of the Nationals on their home field.
The Offense
Elly De La Cruz led off the second inning with a single, stole second, and then took third on a fly ball to left field by Spencer Steer. Then …
Rain, rain, go away… pic.twitter.com/bo9AMFQZkC
— Bally Sports Cincinnati (@BallySportsCIN) July 6, 2023
The rain delay lasted one hour and 43 minutes, after which Nationals starter lefty MacKenzie Gore was replaced by righty reliever Mason Thompson. The inning ended oddly when Tyler Stephenson hit a grounder to drawn-in shortstop CJ Abrams, who threw home for the out on De La Cruz. Unfortunately, Stephenson slipped and fell out of the batters’ box on his way to first, and as a result was thrown out there for a double play.
Next inning, Will Benson drew a walk with one out and advanced to second on a Luke Maile groundout. Kevin Newman then grounded one into left field to score Benson for a 1-0 Reds lead.
Trailing 2-1 in the sixth, Cincinnati tied it on a two-out double down the left field line by De La Cruz — his sixth consecutive hit while batting righthanded. Pinch-hitter TJ Friedl scored from second, but Matt McLain was thrown out at the plate trying to score the go-ahead run from first base.
Trailing 3-2 in the eighth, Benson led off with an opposite-field double, was bunted to third by Friedl, and then scored on a pinch-hit single by Joey Votto to tie the game at 3-3.
In the tenth, with “free runner” Stephenson aboard, Senzel unloaded and hit a 2-run home run on a 98 mph Hunter Harvey get-ahead fastball to put the visitors ahead for good.
The Pitching
Brandon Williamson had an effective and pitch-efficient first inning, and then surprisingly, he returned after the rain delay. In the second inning, he again retired Washington in order. He kept the Nationals scoreless in the third despite allowing a double and walk and throwing 35 pitches. That led to the Reds’ bullpen gate opening, with Buck Farmer emerging.
After a 1-2-3 fourth inning, Washington scored two runs to take the lead after it looked like the inning was over. With Abrams at second, Farmer threw to second for what looked like a sure pickoff. Jonathan India then threw to De La Cruz at third, but Abrams’ inventive slide eluded the tag. He was called out, but the replay review overturned the out call. Lane Thomas then singled to left to plate Abrams and Alex Call. Ian Gibaut came on to close out the inning without further damage, leaving the Reds’ deficit at 2-1.
Gibaut pitched a scoreless sixth, punctuated by a groundout down the third base line that saw Elly De La Cruz field the ball and fire a 95.6 MPH throw across the diamond for the out.
You can count on one hand and maybe one finger the number of major league third basemen who can make that play without one-hopping the throw to first.
Daniel Duarte took over in the seventh, allowing a solo homer to Call for a 3-2 Washington lead. Lucas Sims followed with a 1-2-3 eighth to preserve a 3-3 tie.
Tony Santillan made his 2023 MLB debut in the tightest of situations, with the game tied in the bottom of the ninth. He allowed a one-out double to Riley Adams, followed by a blast to right by Abrams. Nick Senzel, playing right field, then did this:
SENZEL SAVES THE GAME@LilSenzii pic.twitter.com/b6ubONybGd
— Cincinnati Reds (@Reds) July 6, 2023
It saved the game because the hit would have scored Adams easily. Of course, in the next inning, Senzel made an even bigger play.
Called upon to save the day in the 10th, Alexis Diaz allowed a leadoff single to Lane Thomas to score the “free runner,” then hit Jeimer Candelario with a pitch to put the winning run on first base with nobody out. But he then struck out Dominick Smith, retired Corey Dickerson on a grounder which advanced the runners to second and third, and retired Keibert Ruiz on a fly to center field to end it.
What’s News
Nick Senzel’s 10th-inning home run kept the Cincinnati Reds’ streak of homers in a game alive.
The Reds are 20-4 over their last 24 games. Today was their 5th straight win. It was their 32nd come-from-behind win of the season.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Cincinnati Reds at Milwaukee Brewers
Friday, July 10, 8:10 p.m. ET
Andrew Abbott (4-0, 1.21 ERA) vs. Corbin Burnes (6-5, 4.00 ERA)
The miracle continues. 🙂
How about these guys? Practically a different hero every game. WTG, Senzel. Nice snag in right, too! Farmer of late? Never a dull moment with Mr. Diaz…
Diaz seems to enjoy pitching with runners on. Senzel, imo, won the game yesterday with his 3 run blast and today with a 2 run blast.
Yep… and he came incredibly close to throwing the game away on the grounder to 3rd in the 10th when he should have taken the easy force at 2nd but instead threw wide and short in the dirt. If Steer doesn’t stretch all the way and pick that short hop perfectly and it gets by him Red’s lose. So a great play by Steer and you could tell Senzel knew it the way he gave Steer a big bear hug after the game was over for saving his ass. This Reds ballclub truly does play as a team.
P.S. Welcome back, Santillan. Congrats on the “W.”
Yes was good to see Santillan pitch a solid inning for his first outing.
18-3 over their last 21 road games. What in the world? I doubt the BRM ever did that. This team is for real. I cannot wait to see how the Milwaukee series pans out.
Yes and CES would make them even better. Plus, getting Greene and Lodolo back will be great. The pitching has really stabilized. Everyone is contributing.
I’ll look to up for you but rest assured the BRM on the NL team ever.
No wonder only Diaz made the all star team. All the others take turns being the star of the game.
Sad, I couldn’t watch the end of the game.
Happy as heck with the sweep!
Love that the national media is paying attention to this team and calling it the team to watch for the most fun.
Bring on the Brewers!!!
The Reds next 6 games are vs the Brewers…and then 3 more before the end of July. I’d be surprised if they go worse than 3-3 in these next 6 and if they play well and go 4-2 or 5-1 the Reds can really start to take control of the division and put the Brewers on their heels a bit. Regardless of how it goes, Reds baseball is must see TV. I was starting to give up hope that it could ever be this much fun again.
Congrats to Santillan making his season debut after a long time off! The more he settles in the better he’ll be.
Also, he didn’t get any hits today but this game shows how important Spencer Steer is. Starts in LF, moves to 1B, then to 3B, and finishes back at 1B where he made a great pick on the throw from Senzel who played 3 spots himself today
And the best thing about where the Reds are right now is that they are tied with the Dodgers and could be ahead if the Dodgers lose. Ahead of the Dodgers and Cards both is a good year.
Yes…being ahead of the dodgers and marlins is important too now. Can’t believe I have the gall to hope for such a thing. Yet…here the Reds are.
I missed the De La Cruz throw during the game as I stepped away for a moment. It surely was awesome. Just for the record to anyone else who didn’t see or know about it I saw CES make a similar play about a week ago fairly easily without bouncing it from about the same spot. The man CAN play 3B.
0.895 fielding% at 3rd? CES won’t play 3rd up here.
hahaha You keep saying that. So you think CES has NOT improved?
That was all early in his career
Check the stats
From Doug’s (the gold standard in evaluating the Red’s minor leaguers) scouting report last November:
“At third base he’s had a lot of struggles since being drafted and has an .893 fielding percentage at the position, but around the midseason point in 2022 he stopped making errors and saw a massive improvement in his consistency at the position.”
https://www.redsminorleagues.com/2022/11/28/cincinnati-reds-7-prospect-christian-encarnacion-strand-3b/
Thanks BK.
So what. I hope EDLC continues to play 3rd up here. CES has done very well defensively at 1st base, which is where he would play a fair amount up here.
Senzel has found a niche and been great in it
Would any contender looking for that RH bench bat with versatility over pay for him though? I think the roster is in a position that it could afford to give him up if it improved the team elsewhere
Easy DHud you’ll be getting as many stupid idea replies as I have lately. 😉
Back in the 1970’s I didn’t agree with a lot of Bob Howsam’s moves between 70-75 but they turned out OK in 1975-76. Among the departees>>>> Tommy Helms, Woody Woodward, Lee May, Bernie Carbo (the Fraley of the day, ended up with a career 126 OPS+ as a platoon guy), Jimmy Stewart (more or less Senzel but without the early career fanfare), Hal McRae (Carbo’s platoon partner in 1970) Bobby Tolan. And this is only on the position side.
What I learned was a team can’t be afraid to take and make a trade, no matter who leaves, when the net result makes the team better.
Bob Howsam was a great GM. He was the architect of the BRM. He kept a list of the best players in the majors at their respective positions. And then he tried to get them on the Reds. He was successful in some instances. He knew the value of being balanced. This 2023 team is well balanced and will be getting better. One more pitcher would be great. I am hopeful on Williamson to be the 5th starter behind Greene, Lodolo, Abbott, and Ashcraft.
Gotta break some eggs to make an omelette ????
Not saying they should go running to the papers to get rid of him, but they’re in a good position to make some tough, smart baseball decisions
That was supposed to be a shrug emoji…not a bunch of ????
DHud> we agree.
The problem with your mindset/comparison is that you are talking about a veteran team vs an extremely young team. Also, the guys who were traded were very limited players and in a some instances core players who got the Reds much better players. I’ve not seen anyone make any suggestions of who they would deal some of these young Reds of today for. Senzel and Newman are not going to bring you Joe Morgan. Apples and Oranges topic when talking about Howsam’s early BRM vs today’s young Reds team.
Chris>>> I do not see it as apples and oranges. The guys that left the Reds between 1970-74 were cleared out to make room for replacements who were better or helped the team to be better than it was before. Some of the replacements came to the Reds in trade. Others were promoted through the Reds system.
Bobby Tolan (at age 27) had a 110 OPS+ in 1972 and finished 20th in the NL MVP voting but switched spots with Geronimo (Tolan from CF to RF and vice versa) in 1973 and was then traded to open RF for Griffey Sr in 1974.
Bernie Carbo (age 24) had a 164 OPS+ and came 2nd for NL Rookie of the Year in 1970 and was traded during 1972 because he lost his spot to Geronimo. Carbo went on to a long career primarily in the AL and finished with a career 126 OPS+ ranking/ 18.1 bWAR
Woody Woodard (age 27) was the primary SS who lost his job to Concepcion in 1970 but stuck as a sub in 1971 his last year in MLB at age 28.
It is not so much what they can get for the likes of Senzel or Newman as it is there are younger guys with higher ceilings who are currently at or surpassing the performance level of Senzel and Newman. Because of the positional flexibility of many of these younger guys, these are not always going to be direct position for position swaps. For instance, CES comes up and plays 1B/DH in concert with Votto and Steer moves to LF if an outfielder is displaced for CES’s spot.
Howsam made some bad trades but much more often, he made good ones. Some great ones.
Could Senzel possibly bring back a 1-year SP rental?
Maybe? Would that be worth it?
Senzel has what, one more year or arb eligibility??
Glad Krall is paid to make these decisions and not me
Not a good one. Any team who is trading good starting pitching will want prospects.
rgslone>>>Senzel could fetch the Reds a reliever, but not a starter. The Dodgers are reportedly looking for a RH bat…maybe they would give up one of their LH relievers?
The Reds are a contender who need a nice right handed versatile bench piece. And, they have one in Senzel.
The Reds also need pitching and are much deeper with bats who could potentially backfill Senzel than they are arms
A nod to Steer’s great play at first on the Senzel throw….
Also saves the game…or at least a tie game
On track for 90 W (if you project 49-39 over 162 games).
Reds haven’t won 90 games since Dusty Baker 10 years ago.
The 1990 Reds were 91-71 going into playoffs.
If they keep up the winning percentage since 4/23, they would be looking at 95-96.
All who predicted a 90 win season pace at any point during the season as they came out of spring training, raise both hands!
After that 7-15 start they are playing at a 100 win clip.
I predicted 80 wins before spring training but it was just being hopeful
And how’d they do that year? (Being hopeful.)
What’s your point? If you don’t get there, you can’t win anything.
They swept the heavily favored A’s in the WS. I assume that was RedlegScott’s point.
I think it’s safe to say of the 14 games Votto has played the Reds would not have won four of them without him. One might say he’s “fitting in”. :)…and getting better.
They won a whole lot of games without Votto. It does not compute that they would have lost four games without. You cannot look at how a game played out in retrospect, then assume that by subtracting one man’s performance everything would have played out the same. Whoever would have been playing in. Votto’s replacement may well have duplicated his contribution. Votto has had timely hits in his return and it is good to have him back, but let’s not get carried away with pedestal construction based on one way conjecture of outcomes and what they would have been had he not been playing.
So let’s add “pedestal construction” to being “pathetic and delusional” in our appreciation of Votto’s return.
The post-game cranks always seem to show up with their gobblygook know-it-all attitudes and their pressing need to be ‘right’ and to dampen any signs of enthusiasm.
Yawn.
haha I don’t mind getting “carried away” this time. 😉
No, unless you can prove different, it’s an absolute FACT that Votto was a key in the win of those 4 games. The fact is without his production those 4 games do not get won. If you had someone else in his place they may have still won, but we don’t know that now do we? So your gibberish that you spouted is just that, gibberish.
Yep, his experience has definitely shown in some key spots. And it looks to me like he has a growing confidence in himself lately, just the look he has at the plate right now. I have a feeling he’s getting ready to really start hitting the ball consistently hard. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if has a really fantastic next 6 games vs Milwaukee. And with his age it might be a blessing in disguise that he really couldn’t play for the first couple of months… might be full of energy instead of worn down by the time we get to October baseball.
” And with his age it might be a blessing in disguise that he really couldn’t play for the first couple of months… might be full of energy instead of worn down by the time we get to October baseball.”
Yep. Good point.
Melvin stop drinking the koolaid. He has been pinch hit and pinch run for multiple times in the last week.
He is adding lots of value in a different role than he’s accustomed to. He also, according to Chris Welch, had a good conversation with Will Benson on the plane (Friedl was involved, too) that Benson credits with his turnaround.
Agree Melvin. A productive Votto would be another “best case scenario” working in the Red’s favor. He seems to be embracing a somewhat lesser role on the team–his team-first approach has certainly had a positive impact. Let’s hope it continues.
Way to take care of business in D.C. If the Reds can avoid going deer-in-the-headlights against the Brewers, I think we can safely say that their past is behind them.
I’m disappointed because I was hoping for a five game sweep and outscoring the Nationals by at least 30 runs. But I suppose this will do.
Lost in the shuffle was Williamson. He looked pretty bad in some of those earlier games, but he seems to have more confidence & command. His big loopy curve is pretty good! He might be able to be a #3 #4 starter type with something like a 4.15 era with Gabp factored in.
On to Milwaukee! AA, Weaver, and ?. They sent Kennedy down so maybe Ashcraft on 3 days rest for a few innings or Lively?
I heard Lively.
It might be clichéd, but I think the current rotation is an example of “Winning is contagious.” The longer these starters go without being blown up, the less each of them will want to be the block-head who falls first. Some friendly competition is generating their A-games, and it’s been a beauty to watch.
Might be something to that.
Yes, Williamson coming back out to get us 3 IP was big time. Man if he’s actually a #4 type pitcher, and Abbott also becomes a #2, or #3 we’re getting deep. The “Big 3” and our new found friends.
#1’s (Greene)
#2’s (Greene, Lodolo, Abbott)
#3’s (Lodolo, Abbott, Ashcraft)
#4’s (Ashcraft, Williamson)
#5’s (Williamson)
We still need to acquire (trade/FA acquisition) an established ace, but the future is looking bright.
I think I’ve heard Lively was expected to get another start before the break, so that my guess.
There aren’t many available that won’t cost an arm and a leg. I would love to see the Reds get JP Sears from Oakland. He would cost a small bit, but would be a great trade pitcher to then sign an extension with. May have ace stuff.
I don’t see us trading for an ace, Sears might work this year. The offseason I hope they set their sights higher. Lots of payroll flexibility.
Do not think we need an ace, but a good #3 will do.
Or, if an ACE, I would have 3+ years of service time left.
Lively has also shown potential.
@Jason Franklin, completely agree. I’ve been tootin’ than horn of a bit now. I think he’s better than what we’ve seen from him, and he has a year or two of arbitration too.
Ain’t no way Oakland is trading Sears. He is the exact type of player they want to build around, controlled thru ’28.
That’s the same as other teams last year saying let’s trade for Hunter Greene. Why would we do that? Why would Oakland do that?
Williamson is definitely improving over his last 3 or 4 starts…discounting the weather related issues. He is definitely throwing his fastball better and more often and I think it’s setting up the rest of his pitches better than it was in his earlier games. Also, if he does keep improving and can stick in the rotation he and Lodolo have been best friends since their TCU college days together, so that might really work out well for the Reds.
“The Reds are 20-4 over their last 24 games.”
Nuff said. Wow. Whowouldathunkit?
Senzel really came through today in critical moments, as did Votto and De La Cruz. Steer too, though no hits. Every day another hero — I love it. This team is incredible.
A little worried about Diaz lately, though everything turned out OK. Will probably need him in Milwaukee tomorrow, but I hope he’s given a reason to rest.
Go Reds!
Yes, Senzel came through big. Also impressed with Kevin Newman’s hit into LF to score Benson and get the Reds first run. Putting us on the board first gives confidence to the rookies.
I’m more worried about myself than Diaz: I might have to leave the room for the duration when he comes in to pitch. Drama is fine, in its place, but its place isn’t the 9th inning with a tenuous Reds’ lead.
As unlikely and incredible as it seems, at 20-4 over their last 28 games, this team is on pace to match the 41-9 “fabulous 50” run of the 1975 team in games 41-90 (May21-July 13) of that season.
Uh, give me an “F” in math today. over the last 24, NOT 28 games.
Every Red and Reds fan gets an A+ today.
..and 41-90! LOL!
Went from 19-21 to 60 -30 on 108 and 54.
20-20 to 61-29 is the 41 out of 50 streak in 1975. RLN wrote about it 10 years ago.
42-24 since the 7-15 start for a .636 clip. Over 162 games, that is 103 wins. I think we have a playoff team, and one that is not just happy to be there. Let’s hope everyone stays healthy.
Really hope AA is on tomorrow night, it would be pretty devastating on bullpen if he has an off day, considering the rain out/extra innings today followed by Weaver.
Wonder if they will do some AAAA circulation ahead of the Milwaukee series.
This is good.
First place teams are supposed to win games like this.
I counted five teams the Reds have beaten in a series ranked ahead of them, including a couple of very notable sweeps. (Astros and Rangers). This list is debatable to say the least. Thanks for posting.
Just saw that ESPN (punks) had the Reds way down their list in top ranked teams… just check it out.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/37964476/mlb-2023-power-rankings-week-14-new-no-1-braves-rays
And yet we beat their beloved ESPN Washington Harpers (the original name when they were founded, don’t you know) in 4 games.
You know. The longer we wait until the trade deadline the less urgent it is to trade away prospects for starting pitching providing that Greene and Lodolo do indeed return. It’s like getting to pretty good pitchers for nothing. The bullpen might be the greater need….and bringing up CES. lol
Yep, great point. This team is in good shape and has internal options to bolster the weakest part of a very good team.
I don’t think they can afford to wait because if Greene or Lodolo don’t make it back it will be too late to acquire anyone else.
Not to mention just getting Law in Santillion back now is a huge boost for the bullpen and supposedly Antone is not that far away. If he comes back in August and is anything near what he was in 2021 then getting him back afte4 2 years will be like getting a stud P in a deadline trade. He was almost unhittable in 2021 before his injury…just lights out and his stuff was filthy.
Yeah I know Jim. Just saying they haven’t so far and IF they are going to wait and by the trade deadline are sure that Greene and Lodolo are coming back there’s really not an urgent need especially with Abbott pitching the way he has been along with the fact Ashcraft has been pitching better. Williamson looks to be developing into a solid 5th starter as well.
Why do you think we need CES so bad? Our offense isn’t the problem.
As long as the selling teams want to wait, we don’t really have a choice. Krall did recently say publicly he’s working on it.
This team is playing great without all of its pitching assets. Why not keep at it and then improve when those assets return? That’s better than gutting the supply chain of talent in the minors. Let’s open up a winning window so big the Cardinals will think we signed a better deal with the Devil!
Farmer is coming back to Earth quickly. They might be able to get by with starter depth, but they really need an experienced high leverage arm. Otherwise they’re going to burn Sims & Diaz out
I hear ya. 1 or 2 quality starting pitchers would be great. They don’t need to be aces. Then get us one of two quality bullpen arms. There has to be some quality relievers out there to get.
Marte not in the Bats lineup tonight. Probably nothing but this time of year always makes you wander if there is a trade in the works.
If they make a trade right now, it would be a very costly one. I get the feeling that trades closer to the deadline sometime work out cheaper? Although, honestly, Marte would probably be the main piece going back to another team. Yet, thinking about it, the Reds don’t seem inclined to bring up CES even though he deserves. Maybe they don’t see what everyone else sees in him. I almost think the Reds should just wait until after this season and then just use some cash to sign a couple starters and relievers. They will have the money for that and extensions. Go Reds.
Move CES up here to play part-time? Let him stay down there and play full-time. He’s better than getting Newman-like playing time. And, he’s pretty much limited to first base for fielding.
Steve – What are you going to do if the Reds do indeed call up CES and he plays some at 3B? 🙂
If they ever bring CES up and he’s in the lineup almost every day — starting against every lefty and allowing India, McLain, Friedl, Steer, Elly, and Votto to have a day off every 10 days or so against righties — Steve’s head is going to explode because he thinks it’s physically impossible.
The Reds traded a top shelf pitcher for Marte.
It would be depressing if they then traded Marte for an “innings nibbler”.
We’re seeing of late how crucial the long ball is to sustained winning.
Reds need even more.
Braves averaging 2.5 hrs per game recently according to ESPN rankings.
This weekend should put my ‘go slow’ attitude to trading for pitching to a real acid test.
I personally don’t want to trade Marte either unless it’s a deal we can’t refuse. It’s not in our hands though is it? 🙂
I wouldn’t trade Marte, CES, Collier. Doug can correct if I’m wrong, he’s the expert, Marte’s body projects more of a 3rd, CES 1B/DH, that’s your corner power bats, Collier RF’er. Joey worked hard & improved his defense once he was called.
In the past I’ve heard one of our Reds color guy’s say that DH isn’t a real day offbecause of being mentally worn down as much or more than the body. Said the body aches & pains are with you for the duration anyway. Just play CES there & with our depth(minus the 3rd catcher) just set a guy for a game when he’s worn down . Not 30 days ahead of time.
Hinds has raised his trade value, Arroyo could be a chip. Jimo
I’ve been getting a lot of spam calls from 513 area code lately.
Maybe I should pick up?
Harry – lol
Neither are Fairchild or Ramos. Don’t think Fairchild is required to report until Friday (72 hours from send down).
My original plan was to be at the games yesterday and today. Glad I switched it to Monday and Tuesday as I would have been challenged getting a train out of town after the game and probably had to make the choice to leave early. Or if I was able to catch a very late train, I would have been home sometime after Midnight and completely exhausted.
What a game … what a series … WHAT A TEAM!!!
Tom, I was Wr.. Wr.. Wr.., er Incorrect in my assessment of this team earlier in the season. I’m hooked now
I was really glad to see Senzel being “the man” here. I’m a Senzel fan (but not a “fanatical fan”). Coming up, he was the McLain, the CES, etc. He played 3rd in college, I believe, then 2nd in the minors. But, then, once he hit the majors, we sent him to CF. That’s when the injuries hit. Just like with Hamilton. It was good to see him have his time for once.
Too bad our starter could only go 3 innings. Much of that was due probably to the rain storm. Hopefully AA can help us out with that tomorrow.
Yeah 🙂
Had to drop down a few spots Melvin.
Yes, definitely not our call on trades, and that’s a good thing for our Reds! I’d be gone quicker than Krivsky got Jockerty’d out!
Actually his injuries started before he got up to the MLB. As for Hamilton, I don’t recall him having injury issues, unless you are referring to his actual bat.
114, 119 games? Even the 139 season could show some injury. Hamilton definitely had injuries out there.
Senzel’s injuries only get exasperated by us having him move to a position he only spent 8 games playing. I remember time and again Hamilton and Senzel running into the wall time and again, leaving games injured, missing time, because they never learned how to play the wall. People applauded because “they play so hard”. They had no clue how to play the wall.
Senzel missed the 2nd half of 2018 in AAA due to a fractured finger he got while diving for a grounder playing 2B. He then later missed most all of the 2021 season with the Reds recovering from a knee injury after being moved from CF to 2B and 3B and became a regular starter in the infield before his injury. So no, contrary to popular opinion, he does not just get injured playing in the OF.
His knee injury was a non-contact play.
Reds win today even when McLain, India, Steer and Stephenson has not a single going 0-16 combined. They played ugly baseball in the fifth inning but took advantage of a really bad Nats team.
Moving to Milwaukee, Reds will be looking for 1 win at least so the Reds would secure to be at first place before the break.
How about 8th straight series win.
Open up a 3 game lead.
Really hoping for 2 out of 3 and 2 out of 3 after the All Star game too.
The Reds have three, 3 game series with the Brewers this month. They go in to Milwaukee up two games, if they take 2 of 3 from both series, separated by the All Star break, the Reds will be up four games in the NLC and ready to take on the Giants and Diamond Backs at home.
The Brewers will not play as sloppily and with as much bad “luck” as the Nationals did.
You have to count on Abbott to win (or pitch a good 5-6-7 innings) to support a win on Friday night.
But Weaver on Saturday and “TBD” to pitch Sunday, does not look promising. I’ve seen this “TBD” guy pitch before, and it doesn’t usually work out.
Before the season began, I didn’t predict a lot of wins, but with all the young guys coming up I did predict that this team would be a lot of fun to watch. I think my prediction was absolutely correct. This is just as exciting as watching the Big Red Machine and the Nasty boys in 1990.
I am in the camp of getting CES up to the big club. Being a right handed hitter he can play half the time, and still be productive. While the 3rd catcher came in handy today, it doesn’t have to be that way. CES can platoon with Votto and seems to me Votto would be okay with it as he is all in with this team. I honestly don’t see a reason to keep a player down just because he may not play full time.
So I agree with Melvin, and J and a few others, get CES up to the big club!!
Agree 100%
Spencer Steer has earned his spot. Will you platoon him with Wil Benson in left ? I’m thinking the moment will come to bring up CES. Steer knows that the Reds infield is not where he will play, and he’s ready to learn Left.
I think Steer is too talented to be wasted as a RH hitting side of a platoon. I look at these emerging Reds players who do not need platooning. i.e. Steer, McLain, EDLC, Friedl, and CES in the wings along with the likes of Stephenson and India, and think why bother with the dog and pony show of platooning?
Many players skills diminish not playing full time.
Let him stay down there and keep his skills up. He’s our 1st baseman next year barring anything weird. He will even be up there when the rosters expand.
That’s a theory, Steve, and it may be true for a guy who rarely plays. But the Reds subs get a lot of playing time. Different players probably react differently to not being starters, just as different players probably react differently to playing different positions,
I do. He’s getting regular at-bats and he’s next man up if there’s an injury. If someone like India goes down, CES comes up and is ready to contribute. If he comes up right now, he gets irregular playing time. It’s SUCH a good problem to have.
When miracles happen, be grateful and ecstatic ! This has already been a miracle season for the Reds. I’m looking at a greater power at work in this. Did you see Votto got pinch hit for the other day, and Stephenson hits a homer on the first pitch. Today Votto comes out as the pinch hitter and gets the base knock. Bell puts in his left hander pitcher lineup today, and a rain delay takes Gros, a power pitching lefty, out after one inning (thank goodness) and the Reds pull off another miracle win… I’m thinking Votto is now part of this team’s vibe, but as a platoon player. Can’t make any predictions for what happens at Miller Stadium. But I’ll take the Reds !
“When miracles happen, be grateful and ecstatic !”
That’s the way I look at it. 🙂
That’s American Family Field …… hahaha….. what a terrible name. It will always be Miller Park to me too.
American Family and Great American are both insurance companies. Before Redland Field was renamed Crosley Field, the Red’s park, for most of it’s history, was called Redland Field.
@TR I’ll take Great American Ballpark over American Family Field. any day
Someone mentioned trading Senzel or what he may bring to the club. If a trade or two is made, I do hope its for the pitching staff. I believe the Reds should stay the course and go with what is working. Greene, and Lodolo will be back in August. Right now the starters are pitching better. I would look to add a couple relief pitchers, however if Law and Santillan keep slamming the door then what?
Man what was to be a rebuilding year is turning into something special.
Wonder if Senzel would bring back a reliever with multiple years of control
Sometime in August, not August 1. Lodolo was ineffective before he went in IL.
Hey OT. Agreed. My take was Lodolo lost his dominance for whatever reasons before his injury as well. Hope he comes back healthy and can figure things out as Ashcraft is seemingly starting to do now. Lot’s more needs to happen than him just coming back.
That could be a month from now. Look at the Reds July schedule and tell me they don’t need another SP.
Ever since I suggested he might want to take the rest of the year off to clear his head, Barrero has started hitting like crazy. He might be an intriguing option for a team hoping to hit the lottery. Barrero and a couple other “high ceiling” low-level prospects might get you a decent pitcher in return.
Absolutely agree with you on that. Barrero could be a decent trade chip. He has no future on this team, so that would be good for both he and the team. I think the same could be said to a lesser extent for a guy like Fairchild. I’ve taken a bit of a liking to him, but he would probably be better as a trade chip than a need for this current Reds team.
I believe the Reds need a true OF to backup Friedl in CF at least in the long term if not day to day situation. That guy is either Barrero or Fairchild.
It can be debated whether this guy needs to be on the 26 man roster or a call up away in Louisville; but, they need a guy for this role.
Jim, you already have that. Benson can play CF, and frankly, Senzel can play CF. Barrero and Fairchild are just not very good. Fairchild would be a last ditch option, Barrero is a negative WAR player.
It’s true that Benson can play center just as it’s true that McClain, Cruz, India and Steer have positional flexibility in the infield. That doesn’t account for injuries, though. You still need versatile bench players.
Barrero could be a lot like Benson has been for us. Benson just needed a change of scenery and new voices, now we’re now the beneficiaries of his talent that was always there. Sometimes you just need new surroundings and opportunities. He was able to clear his head and get a fresh start with the Reds, another great trade by Krall. Barrero’s got a lot of talent and with the right team giving him an opportunity in new surroundings he could blossom just like Benson has. He definitely could be a player a few teams would have a real interest in
Barrero hitting like crazy? It’s only been two games. And 2-4 isn’t crazy.
You’re mistaken. In the past six games he’s had 25 plate appearances and he’s hitting .400. His OPS in that stretch is over 1.3.
“Blowing up” to .217, .759! I did notice he played CF last night, which I’ve not noticed before.
We’re not getting a decent pitcher for Barrero.
I’m holding on to both Fairchild and Barrero. Our starting offense is stacked next year. We lose no starters except Votto, and CES replaces him.
Add in Senzel, Barrero, Fairchild, and a backup catcher on the bench (or platooning). Then we have zero offensive needs in the offseason. All extra funds/trading this offseason can be focused on improving pitching (quality and depth).
Nobody suggested the Reds could trade Barrero straight up for a decent pitcher. If you want to argue with me, at least argue with what I said and not something I didn’t say. Barrero plus two other “high ceiling” prospects would probably be enough to land a pretty good pitcher who’s about to become a free agent, or a decent one who’s got one more year on his contract.
“If you want to argue with me, at least argue with what I said and not something I didn’t say.”
Um, wow, okay.
I wasn’t even trying to argue. I was stating I wouldn’t trade either player (both were mentioned in posts above).
I said we could probably get a decent pitcher for Barrero and two other “high ceiling” prospects. Under my post, you said “we’re not getting a decent pitcher for Barrero.” I suppose one interpretation of this comment is that you were just making a point out of the blue, for no apparent reason, but in this context it sure sounded like you were disagreeing with what I said without actually paying close attention to what I said. My apologies if I misinterpreted your point to be a direct response to mine, but I hope you can see how it might have appeared you were disagreeing with me.
I’m hoping the Reds can be 13 games over 500 at the All Star break. That way we can hear the announcers say things like, “how is it the Reds only have one player on this team?”
When you think about the speed & defense abilities that Krall says he wants on the Reds, who doesn’t fit? For me it’s India, and CES. I am not saying that because I want CES traded. I don’t want him traded. I do think that maybe why he hasn’t come up yet.
2024 position players would still be stacked. I do think trading India is smart, now or in the offseason, but I want to hold onto CES, but if we don’t this could still be an interesting group next year.
1B Steer, 2B McLain, SS EDLC, 3B Marte, U Reynolds
RF Fraley, CF Friedl, LF Benson, OF Dunn, OF Senzel
C Stephenson, C Robinson C/1B Free
Key’s would be if Dunn continues his rapid development, and Free passes the AAA test. Also I wouldn’t mind resigning Maile, and not bringing up Robinson.
VS RHP
1 EDLC SS, 2 McLain 2B, 3 Friedl CF
4 Steer 1B, 5 Fraley RF, 6 Marte 3B
7 Benson LF, 8 Stephenson C, 9 Free DH
VS LHP
1 EDLC SS, 2 McLain 2B, 3 Friedl CF
4 Steer 1B, 5 Dunn RF, 6 Marte 3B
7 Senzel LF, 8 Stephenson C, 9 Reynolds DH
India is the leader on this team though. Everyone wants to think about dealing India or Fraley, but they mean alot to the team. I’d just bat India 7th if it was me. Take some pressure off
Reds without McLain, and EDLC was 18 and 22.
Reds record since McLain’s debut, then EDLC is 30 and 16.
To be fair this team plays like a team, everyone seems to be contributing, but it wasn’t until the energy of McLain, and more importantly EDLC came up that the team began to play like a 1st place team. To me those 2 are the spark plugs.
Abbott has also become the measuring stick that the rest of the rotation judges themselves against.
I agree with basically everything you said MBS. That is exactly how I would handle it too. I’m with you about trading India now or in the off-season. You could get a pretty good return for him with 3 years of team control left. His defense is subpar and always will be. He will never be a good 3 hitter, he’s best at leadoff but not as good as Friedl…and d9n’t think he’ll ever be a big RBI guy. Plus you have Marte and CES coming in 2024 at the latest and the infield is log-jammed. That starting infield for next year is right on, although maybe CES at 3rd/DH if his defense has significantly improved like Doug said… whoever wins the job between he and Marte in spring training. Then the other could be like Newman this year, starting in spots to give guys days off at 3rd, 1st, DH…plus injuries which we have avoided in the infield this year… wherever. I really like Maile too, would like to keep him. He’s a very bright guy when you hear him talk, Cincy kid and the kind of bench player good teams have. Honestly, I think Maile could be a really good MLB manager someday.
Trade candidates,India,Senzel,Newman,Maile,Barerro,Reynolds.No one else.
Remember those great speedy Cardinal teams? They had a “not fast” thumper in the middle of their lineup….Jack Clark. That’s who CES could be.
Also, trading India is not a good idea. He is an important chemical in this team formula. You can’t ignore chemistry when dealing with the makeup of a team. Your treating the guys more like a fantasy squad instead of integral gears that form this machine.
The India is a “leader” sentiment is a myth that he started it in the offseason.
“I want to set a culture this year that’s different from the past,” India said. “Everyone has the same mindset, no matter who it is. That’s what we need. That’s our ticket to success. Everyone having the same mindset of competing every day no matter the outcome.”
A leader doesn’t announce to the world that he’s going to become the leader, they just lead.
Also see above the team was a sub .500 until McLain and EDLC got here. Those guys are the ones driving the offense, not India. If India is traded EDLC isn’t going to let up, it’s not in his DNA.
I hate writing this because it makes it seem like I don’t like India, I do, I just don’t have him on the pedestal that many RLN fans seem to. We just simply have a lot of SS’s that are better players, and they are making India expendable. India is also valuable, and turning him into a pitcher only makes the team better.
India has been a vocal leader. He had positional guys reporting to ST early February 1 and committed to playing with energy, speed, and aggression. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have but he did go out of his way to “lead” the culture and say last year wasn’t acceptable and Reds going to play differently this year and they have. I dont give him credit for all that as Krall traded and DFA’d players and replaced coaches and bell has embraced it and players like Friedl, Mclain, Elly, Steer, and Fraley show up every day pumping the gas pedal. Its a win win for all and everyone deserves credit. India is going nowhere in the next 3 months and wont be traded nor is it fantasy baseball and Reds moving him to LF or DH in the middle of a playoff chase. Krall and Bell will review things in the off-season and see where India fits or what his trade value is.
The Rays/Brewers trade in 2021- Rasmussen for Adames and the 2022 offseason trade between Marlins/Twins( Pablo Lopez, Luis Arraez) are examples of how pitching for position players could work but I dont see that happening till the off-season.
MBS: you need to catch up and watch some player interviews. You may not see him as a leader, but his teammates sure as hell do.
@Tampa, Read the article on Benson’s new found hitting. He directly mentions and thanks 2 people specifically Votto, and Friedl. Votto took the time to help him, and Friedl let him know what he went through last year, and told him he belongs.
I’m not saying India doesn’t do things to, but I’m saying his isn’t the “leader”, he’s valuable, but there are a lot of guys on this team that are leaders, and a lot of self driven individuals.
India was one of the best hitters on the team prior to the arrivals of McClain and EDLC. When you add good players to a team, that team is likely to improve; this doesn’t mean that the good player who was there from the start isn’t needed. There are as many leadership styles as there are leaders, and–barring season-long access to the locker room and dugout–we aren’t going to know who the leaders are. The outward signs don’t indicate to me that India’s leadership is a myth, but you seem to have a different impression.
India is the leader of this team. Every player on the roster looks up to him. Maybe you trade players like that if you’re in a 2-3 year rebuild. You don’t trade players like that if you’re trying to win.
Agree. Having India around is very important next year assuming that Votto won’t be back. India will be the de facto leader.
The Lookouts currently have 15 runs on 6 hits. That’s efficiency.
And perhaps a bit of inefficiency on the part of the opponent?
Philly won so they’re 1 back of the Reds
Miami lost so they 1.5 ahead of the Reds
Dbacks are down 2-0 early….they’re currently 1.5 ahead of the Reds
Its going to get interesting.
Currently in a virtual tie with LA, if they lose we got that 1/2 game lead on them. I’d love us to pass up Miami and the D backs to be sitting in the 2 hole behind ATL. The D Backs will be here 7/21 maybe we can pass them up by the end of that series.
Yep, in 1999 when there was only 1 wildcard, it was fairly evident by the end of July that Astros or Reds would win the NL West and WC would be the West divisional runner up or Metz who were going to be the East runner up. That made for 2 months of crazy scoreboard watching which ended up in the one game playoff between the Reds and Metz for the wildcard spot.
Still blows my mind we have a reason to scoreboard watch in July. What a great season so far!
2024 (and forward) starting pitching options;
Greene
Lodolo
Ashcraft
Abbott
Williamson
Phillips
Dunn/Gutierrez/Stoudt/Lively/Overton for filler
All in year 3 of control or less. A lot of youth. Would love an Bronson Arroyo mentoring-type, someone who understands the art of pitching instead of throwing. Any trades this year should target bad contract/high dollar SP1 or SP2s, hopefully which would cost less in prospect capital. Otherwise, I’d roll with what we have (assuming Greene/Lodolo will be back in August.). Arms are unreliable, and I think the potential of the list above is enough to wait on without reversing the nice progress made at last years trade deadline.
That’s also most of our 2023 starting pitching options, and that hasn’t worked out so well. One very good #1 or #2 type reliable veteran pitcher is my #1 offseason acquisition hope. Preferably FA signing, but trade if need be. Your list above has a lot of potential, but we can’t assume they will take the next step forward the way our offense has this year.
I keep seeing a lot of 2024 talk. I don’t get it. This is no longer a team about the future. This team is arguably the 2nd best team in the NL, and it played the best team extremely close. I’m not sure there is a better team in the AL than the Reds are. We have no idea what happens next year, or injury possibilities. This organization needs to focus fully on this year and win it all. The team is that good. I watched the BRM and the Wire to wire 90’s team. This team looks like one of those. It’s a special time. Focus must be NOW.
I am 100% for keeping Fraley. Him and Friedl are just good all around ball players, the kind of players you want on your team.
Rosters only expand to 28 now on Sept. 1. I wonder who the Reds would take? They’d probably need to cut back Abbott’s innings if we’re in line for the playoffs. Maybe Stoudt and Ramos or Fairchild? Connor Phillips and Matt Reynolds?
I know Bell is dying to get Newman and Reynolds in the lineup together. All the grit you can eat!
Our man and future HOF Joseph Daniel Votto on the national stage. He is still the best interview in baseball.
This is classic Votto. Maybe he could help spot Larkin in the TV booth in the future.
I would love for Votto to end up in the TV booth after his playing career is over.
Can you envision Votto as the manager of the Reds some day or Larkin?
as manager, Votto
Awesome!!! Thanks!!
WOW!!! 😮
What a great interview. Love Joey’s perspective and enthusiasm for his young team mates and the synergy they obviously have. We saw that on full display in the game yesterday where everybody played his part. And what a finish.
I highly recommend watching this. Worth investing 14 minutes of your day. Thanks for posting it, Brian.
ROY front runner Carroll exited last night’s game with an injury. Depending on how long he’s out, it could be a boost to the Reds’ rookies chances.
Also, if he’s unable to play in the ASG, you have to wonder if Steer or Friedl have any chance to replace him on the roster.
I saw that.
It’s unfortunate, because he’s a good player, and it looked like major pain for him.
Friedl or Steer could be a replacement.
Lane Thomas of the Nats is also deserving.
I have a feeling it would go to Tatis though.
McLain.
While like many I’m anxious to see what CES can do at the Major league level. That said, I’m also really liking how the staff is utilizing the players currently there. Team is playing well and winning. They are displaying great team chemistry and a never quit mentality. CES will get his shot but now may not be the time. It also is a big jump from the minors to the majors. No guarantee he will duplicate his production at the major league level. Like all of you I’m hoping when it is his time he does.
I agree Jim. I think one of the biggest differences between being in AAA and the Big Leagues is the mental grind. There a whole lot more pressure on these kids to perform on the national stage and every game is dissected by the fans. Elly had 25 at bats right handed and people were already doubting his ability. Matt McClain is slowing down. It’s a grind. CES will get his chance and I hope he is successful. Lets not forget though that this is the first time for all of this for a good portion of the team.
@ Brian it just is so hard to consider changes at this point with how well this team is playing. This is the best stretch of reds winning baseball in quite sometime. Everyone is contributing. My hope is they ride it out. If there is a injury or the winning falls off then make a change but for now I keep things as they are.
Agree with everyone. CES will get his time. I believe he will be our 1st baseman next season. But, this season, there just isn’t a role for him here as a full-timer. If you make him full-time, then you are taking time from other major leaguers, for a minor leaguer. Who on this team has warranted having time taken from them? If you get chippy with the time (a game from him, 2 games from him, etc.) to make CES full-time, then you start looking at others potentially playing positions they aren’t use to.
Getting CES up here is the least of or priorities. We need pitching.
What?
We saw Senzel in RF and CF. McLain and EDLC changed positions.
Steer played LF, 3B and 1B in the same game.
Benson switched from LF to RF.
We’ve had Newman at 1B.
What ‘players playing positions that they aren’t used to’ are you wringing your hands about?
Fraley catching?
Bell’s switcheroo system can readily accommodate CES.
Two things stand in the way: 3rd catcher and / or Newman.
Sure, both have had their usefulness so far.
Want to make a run for playoffs in the 2nd half?
Upgrade.
Reds need both more pitching and more offense to keep up with Braves, stay ahead of Brewers and be ready for LA.
Counting on come-from-behind heroics for another 32 wins is going to be tough.
Adding CES’s big bat will be a big help…even if he doesn’t play ‘every day’…
Fraley doesn’t play everyday.
Great having him as a PH option late in the game yesterday.
Will be the same with CES.
The only person that would lose time is Newman. Quite frankly he has no real job on this team, other than a “forced” one now. He really is only needed at 1st base (which he cannot play at a high level), and quite frankly his numbers are dropping dramatically. CES could easily replace him. Also, CES doesn’t need to play every day. Who says that the 1st year in the majors a future every day player must play every day? CES can play 4 to 5 days a week at 1st and DH, and at 3rd in a pinch. It’s just silly and/or lazy to imply that there is no room for him right now.
Newman hit over .300 in May. The rest of the months he sits around .225. I was sold (still am) that we need to get rid of the 3rd catcher, but in reality, Newman is even less beneficial on this team. Even worse when you consider that Bell leads him off against lefties, and then often keeps him in the game when a righty comes in.
For Harry,
“What ‘players playing positions that they aren’t used to’ are you wringing your hands about?”
You obviously have never had to play RF for something like 5 innings then be asked to change to 3rd base for the 6th, then on that first AB have to field a line drive that you were never ready for.
There’s no need to bring CES up. He’s the least of our priorities right now.
He can’t play 3rd. It looks like they gave up the OF test. He would only be part-time up here, just like Newman, but Newman can play more positions if needed. Let him stay down there to keep his skills up.
We have plenty of offense. 3rd in the NL in OPS and runs. Our offense is fine. CES would only be an addition to that, at best.
In short, CES would be something you want. We need pitching. Or, maybe. . .when taking the test, it sounds like you all are worried about the extra credit questions. First priority should be the test.
Can’t recall that happening to me lately.
But I did see Steer in that arrangement yesterday.
He wasn’t writing messages to RLN complaining about it.
Maybe you aren’t capable of making such physical or intellectual adjustments?
Senzel made the great catch after shifting over from CF.
Senzel has gone from OF to 3B numerous times.
Bell isn’t going to suddenly stop shifting players around.
One might assume you aren’t paying attention if you suggest that somehow working CES into the mix can’t be done because that would mean players would have to move around.
MLB traderumors has a nice primer on the likely deadline players available. I m more of the get a good FA bullpen rental and back of the rotation starter. Neither would cost a top prospect but Im trying to watch and enjoy REds baseball before the AS break. But ,it sure will be fun over the AS break to put on those amateur GM hats and plot and plan a Reds playoff run.
As long as it’s just one prospect, I believe it would be worth it. And, I wouldn’t be surprised it would take that. We have too many 2nd/SS/3rd as it is. The question is, which one?
Trading Bieber strictly for prospects seems unlikely, but Cleveland could shop him in an effort to inject some life into the offense. Adding controllable outfield talent could be particularly welcome.”
They did Highlight outfield, but offense in general is where they’re lacking. India 36.8 for Bieber 34.2 is a pretty even trade that helps both ball clubs make this year.
Bieber, Greene, Abbott, Lodolo, Ashcraft seems like a rotation that can stand up to any team.
CF Friedl 2B McLain SS EDLC
1B Steer RF Fraley 3B CES
DH Votto C Stephenson LF Benson
That’s a very potent lineup too.
On paper, I would make that trade if Bieber was on a 2-1/2 to 3 year contract.
Trading India mid season, though, in the middle of a pennant race?
Can you really imagine the Reds doing that?
A pretty shocking scenario during this high energy, enthusiastic team’s season.
Yeah, let’s trade the “captain” of the team right in the middle of a pennant race season. This isn’t a computer game, and these are not robots either. Talk about destroying team chemistry.
CES fielding % at 3rd is only 0.895. He’s not playing 3rd up here.
The Bieber trade above I could possibly see. And, it could clear some positions up. Elly as SS, McLain at 2nd. Steer would probably be 3rd, he or Senzel.
The “Captain”? He’s not the “Captain”. He’s a valuable member of the team. I don’t think he’s more valuable than McLain, EDLC, Friedl, Fraley, or Steer. His biggest value with our current depth is to bring in a difference maker on the rotation side.
Trading for an ace in the middle of a pennant race is exactly the message the rest of the team needs.
As for the D at 3B for CES, that stat is misleading, and I think you know it.
@Steve, “it could clear some positions up” that’s the whole key. You’re never too deep, but we are deep up the middle, and using some of that capital to bring in a piece where we are in desperate need, only makes sense to me.
as to the defense stat, you should look at his defense after the 1st month, it’s greatly improved. Sorry I was a bit less than charitable when I said I think you know, maybe you haven’t looked at the numbers that in depth yet.
Hi, MBS,
I haven’t found where you can check a players defensive stats “per month” like you stated. Can you provide us with the site please?
@MBS, I didn’t say most valuable, I said “captain”, and I specifically put ” ” around that title because it’s not a Captain with a C on the jersey. Almost anyone who covers the Reds has indirectly if not directly implied that India has sort of taken the mantle of captain on this team. Secondly, if you and others don’t think India is all that valuable, and we all know top pitching is second to none, how in the word can you suggest that India is the key to getting top pitching? If we want top pitching, and we need it, then that’s what our overstocked minor leagues are for. We have top prospects that are literally blocked on this team, so use them for starting pitching.
@Chris, sorry, but “captain” is implying that he is indeed the Captain to make your position stronger.
I’ve stated multiple times today that he is valuable, if he wasn’t, you’re right he wouldn’t bring back a valuable pitcher. For me it’s about making a stronger team that can go deep into the playoffs. What we’d pick up by adding Bieber to the rotation is more than we’d lose by trading away India. That’s simply because of the depth in the middle infield.
It would also finally allow us to bring up CES and stick him at a position as an everyday bat. The arguments as to 1B vs 3B could be made, but I really like what Steer does as a 1B, so I’m partial to keeping him there.
@Steve, Mostly why I said that is over on Reds Minor Leagues Doug has stated multiple time that his defense had taken a 180 since the beginning of the season. Errors almost eliminated, etc. I was looking for the last comment where I think he had a fielding percentage but I couldn’t find it. To be fair, I haven’t broken it down either, but I read it.
For MBS, I still can’t find any STAT line that shows CES’s defense % at 3rd has improved from month to month.
However, I did find one list that puts CES behind Collier, Marte, and Arroyo, not to leave out DLC, McLain, and Steer, who are already at the major league level.
Just looking for the stat line. You said ” you should look at his defense after the 1st month, it’s greatly improved”. I want to see it. I would love to see it.
Old School I agree. I would like them to take a look at Aaron Cival (so?) from Cleveland. Otherwise, add a couple of good relievers like they did in 2021.
I have been advocating the Red’s front office pursue a starter or two, but honestly the team is currently 10 games over .500. I don’t think that they need all that much.
Someone said rosters expand to only 28 after Sept 1. If no, I would have to think we would be taking pitchers. Even that Connor kid at AA. We could use him in the pen, maybe long relief. But, definitely pitchers.
Rosters only expand by two to 28.
And the pitcher limit expands by only 1 to 14.
Whatever we do at the trade deadline, we do not trade Nick. We are finally going to reap the rewards of his draft status in the second half of this season!
As stated above I just disagree
To me, EDLC and McLain are the only position players in the organization truly off the table
Everyone else has their cost/benefit point
Agree. Steer is also close for me. I believe they can replace the production of anyone else from within right now and still be set for the future.
I trust GM Nick Krall will not upset the Red’s unique young corps.
I like Senzel’s current role a lot. And I bring him back next year in that same role. Plus it’s great insurance if a key player gets hurt.
Possibly depends upon cost and what are we going to do with all of these prospects coming up.
Hey, I would love to still see him as our regular 3rd baseman or 2nd baseman. But, I’ve realized long ago we aren’t going to get that.
I wouldn’t say never. It just all depends upon what the other team offers. I mean, if the other team offers the starting pitcher that we are needing to finish this season, make a serious run, and all they want is Senzel, do it! And, that comes from a Senzel fan!
I believe we have the players. We need pitching. Badly. Starters, relievers, prospects. We need pitching.
Wishful thinking. Senzel only has marginal trade value to begin with, and any team selling would want prospects, not Senzel.
AllTheHype probably true. A Senzel trade would have to be the right match with another team. You might be able to package him with some prospects so the gaining team feels like they’re getting some MLB talent back, but you’re more than likely looking for a win-win trade partner: a competing now team looking to improve their bench with a deep bullpen to send something back to the reds
Dodgers, Phillies, Padres, Yankees, Guardians, Angels…
This team’s chemistry is way too immaculate for me to break it up in any way. At this point I wouldn’t trade any of Senzel/Newman/Casali/Maile, and certainly not India. I’m too afraid of messing up what we have going right now.
I’m also on record saying do not trade the farm if all we are going to get is a Bo3 Wild Card round spot. But…. suddenly we are only 1 game back of the Diamondbacks and .5 games back of the Dodgers, and we play both of those teams before the trade deadline. If we have an actual chance for the 2 seed, then I might have to change my stance on the deadline.
India to brings all the intangibles as a leader. I think he spoken this year as the culture wasn’t great last year. Moose was a cancer from what I understand. “Me me me” I don’t see that with this team. I don’t think you trade anyone from the offense side of the ball. To me it’s solid. Bullpen is rather solid as well with Law and Santallin back, however another left handed bullpen pitcher would be good. Also a veteran starter as well. This team to me doesn’t have many holes.
“Spoke” not spoken
If it aint broke, dont fix it. The Reds have gone 20 – 4 in the last 24 games. They swept the Astro’s, played the Braves tough, took 2 of 3 from both the Orioles and the Padres. This team is solid, everyone contributing. The pitching, considering the injuries has been better than any of us could have imagined. Why talk about the wildcard when you have a 2 games lead in the division? Win the division and the wildcard does not matter. The next two series will be huge, a chance to really open up a lead in the division, or let the Brew crew gain momentum. I am betting on our Reds! It is fun to be a Cincinnati fan right now.
The Division winner with the 3rd best record has to play in the Wild Card round now.
I’m not a troll, but if I was I learned how to set off a bunch of RLN. I won’t say anymore about moving India, save this. Someone said something to the effect of this isn’t a video game, or fantasy baseball. I agree 100%, if the Reds are trying to build a team that can make it to the playoffs, then sit pat. We can make it there. If the Reds are trying to build a team that can win in the playoffs, you need bullets in your rotation. A guy like Bieber is exactly what this team needs. There could be some other options that don’t disrupt the current position players, but you’re also not going to like the prospects it’s going to take to get them here. Nothing is free in life, you get what you pay for.
If the Reds moved India for a quality starting pitcher like Bieber, everyone in the clubhouse would understand. They were all on the field or in the dugout when Weaver (or similar) started.
And India’s 100 OPS+ is replaceable or can be improved upon, esp considering his roster spot probably goes to CES.
Bieber is no where near the pitcher he was 2 years ago. His FB velocity is down to 91.7. There’s an article in the athletic I think quoting an anonymous GM saying Bieber isn’t the difference maker he was. He can help you in the rotation, but he’s not an SP1 or SP2 that helps you win a WS.
The devil is in the details on any trade. My point on India is I would be shocked if the Reds moved him in the next few weeks during this magical season as the emotional leader and he isn’t going anywhere during the season. Krall will do his due diligence in the off-season on roster construction, payroll, etc.
He’s not, and I almost said something about that. His K rate is diminished and he’s using his cutter a lot more. He’s evolved. He might not be the right target.
However, responding to your other part, I don’t know if India is an emotional leader as you say. He’s one part of a great chemistry for sure, but the other parts are just as relevant and will certainly continue to thrive if one part is removed.
I thought all along ’24 was the year. THAT CHANGED in the last month. ’23 is NOW the year, and ’24 and ’25 and ’26 etc. The Central is there for the picking this year, and so is the WS. But we need a quality starting pitcher though to go every 5th day. Do what it takes.
@ATH
I agree no one is untouchable. Reds DFA’d Moose and Myers and I didnt think they would. India is a big part of the team and a huge fan favorite and face of the franchise. I just dont see the Reds trading him in the middle of the season who is so much a part of their brand and a face of this wildly successful turn around. I also dont think he gets an SP1 either which is the only way Krall and Big bob would do that trade. If you have a Mat Latos or Luis Castillo comp controllable type 24 year old out there, sure.
It’s very rare that a cost controlled young starter is available at the deadline. Most of those type trades happen in the offseason.
That said, it’s more common to get +1 year at the deadline like we did with Castillo and Mahle. Most of those trade are usually for prospects, but Cleveland is in that rare position of wanting to improve their MLB team this year, with a glut of pitching as bait. Marlins may be in the same boat. Those are the only two teams that might dangle a quality SP and expect a quality MLB return.
Trades with any other seller would likely be for prospects from our side, not India. It will be tough for us to pull off something though. Love to see it happen, not disappointed if it doesn’t.
@MBS>> Amen. We might not agree on the specific person(s) to move; but, I think we agree in principle. Guess I catch only 70% as much heat because my #1 with a bullet is a platoon player who only plays about 70% of the time 😉
And I’ll just tack on that “chemistry” is a strange phenomenon that can cut many ways. In the decade of the 1970s, the Reds were considered the model for what I’ll call positive chemistry. Never was heard (in public) a discouraging word. They made it to the World Series 4 times and split right down the middle 2-2.
In that same decade, the Oakland A’s went to 3 World Series and won all 3 including defeating the Reds in 1972. The A’s were considered the antithesis of the Reds. They aired their differences, often loudly, in public, be they personal, with their manager, or their owner. As I recall, there were even a couple of fights (or at least punches thrown in anger) inside their clubhouse.
The Yankees also appeared in 3 World Series in the 1970s, losing once to the Reds and then in consecutive years beating the Dodgers. This was the height of the George Steinbrenner era. Need I say more about “chemistry” or what most folks would consider a total lack of it?
In the end, the only thing that matters is each player’s motivation to give his very best when he is between the lines. For all we know, Nick Senzel and Kevin Newman may be busting their behinds to get traded out of a platoon hades that as RH hitters severely limits their career earning potential. Even though Jake Fraley is on the side of a platoon that plays 70% of the time, he may share this motivation.
In the end, as Al Davis said in another sport, Just win baby, just win.
A couple things on this topic. It’s not really true to suggest the BRM was some close knit team with great chemistry. Certainly more than the A’s, because yes, they did fight, especially Billy North and Reggie Jackson. The BRM was literally 4 guys and then the rest, and the rest of the team understood that as well. The key was that they understood, and the 4 also understood that among them no one was the actual leader. The real kicker though, is this generation of ballplayers is nothing like those of the 70’s. They are softer, and more coddled, so yes, chemistry is extremely important. When was the last time you saw a championship baseball team that fought amongst themselves?
As for a trade, India isn’t going anywhere this season. Mark it down, do whatever. Also, as mentioned, I’m not sure Bieber is the guy we want, as he does not look like the same pitcher as in the past. Lastly, a team like this current crop should be trading from it’s minor league system anyway. You can look at the crop of youngsters coming up, and there is NO room at the inn, period. Newman has been mentioned by me and others, but he’s going to be dealt for prospects lower level prospects at best.
Chris>>> I thought I gave a pretty good hint about the 1970s Reds by saying “Never was heard (in public) a discouraging word. 😉
Very true that we learned (after the fact) that Rose and Bench seemed to despise each other and harbor as much jealousy (at least on Rose’s side) as the some of the A’s players.
I have read and heard in public media that while Perez’s role as the clubhouse ego manager was well known and contemporarily recognized, the close personal friendship Between Morgan and Rose was the glue which kept the team from becoming factionalized along ethnic lines. Morgan provided the voice to the issues of the young Black and Latino players who along with himself (and Perez) comprised a majority (6) of the “Regular 8”.
I believe the main Billy and Reggie show was with the Yankees although it dated back to an incident when Jackson was with the A’s and Martin was managing the Twins.
Also, I simply don’t buy in that the current players are somehow “softer” than previous generations. The competition and vetting for these guys start even before the end of Little League level for the domestic guys. For the foreign guys, baseball is the only (legal) avenue of advancement for many if not most.
@Jim, I’m not married to any of the ideas I put out there except for 1. Why not win now? There could be a dozen ways that people can come up with that can make us a team that not only gets us to the playoffs but advances us in the playoffs. We are so close to going from good to very good. The only thing holding us back is pitching. Find a way to get Sadi pitching Mr Krall, and the fans will fill the stands.
Clearing space for Fairchild might be the plan for some folks, but it doesn’t add up yet no matter how selectively numbers are parsed.
I’ve been meh on Fraley since he was acquired, but his productivity can’t be quibbled away. His RBI production per AB is among the highest in the NL.
He has driven in as many runs as Steer in 100 less ABs.
So he plays 70% of the time and out produces the most productive hitter on the team?
We can OPs away with Fairchild or talk about his L/R ‘evenhandedness’ but Fraley has and will continue to out produce him when it comes to producing: runs.
If Fraley is considered such a liability….add in those 30 extra ABs against the LHs he hasn’t faced. His production still stands.
K-Childs plate discipline is still lacking to be an effective full time replacement.
If Fraley’s LH struggles are such a liability…one would assume that would compromise his trade value as well.
If it’s an existential issue with Fraley and a fan’s desire to see Fairchild in there, no matter what, well one can’t really debate that.
Fraley produces when he’s on the field.
His 70% production will be more than Fairchild or Senzel’s 100%.
Until the Reds have a better option than those two…keeping Senzel to platoon and play 3rd occasionally makes solid productive sense.
And Fraley’s bat is available against a RH reliever.
Not that KChild isn’t a possible contributor. But his production…and flexibility…aren’t going to replace Fraley’s.
OPs parsing aside, as the old John Hiatt joint goes: “It hasn’t happened yet.”
@harry
Fraley is a silver slugger in his role and a crucial part of the nucleus of this offense.
He leads the team in RBI and HR and steals and is one of the top hitters in MLB against righties. Hes not going anywhere. Hes on pace for 20 hr and 30 steals and 25/25 is a real possibility
Krall will keep him around. Crushing righties is a valued mlb skillset
@Jim, I misunderstood you regarding the BRM. As I believe you did in respect to the A’s. I wasn’t referring to Billy Martin/Reggie Jackson. I was referring to Billy North (it wasn’t a typo) and Reggie Jackson. They had a major pre game brawl back in ’73 or ’74. By the way the Dodgers had their brawls too (Sutton vs Garvey). Sutton absolutely hated Garvey.
I guess we just disagree about today’s players. Yes, it’s more competitive to get to the big leagues than ever before, but I absolutely believe that today’s player is much softer than players of yesteryear. The fact is, once they are drafted, at least the high draftees and the prospects that rise to the top, they are babied like crazy. That in of itself will make these guys a little soft compared to previous generations of players. Just little things like, heaven forbid, a doubleheader has to occur in today’s game. Players hate them, and they even get an extra player added to their roster, and a reduced game to 7 innings. Players are protected everywhere on the field of play with new rules protecting them. The proof goes on and on. Point of that is chemistry with these teams now days is much more important than it ever was in the past. Outside of your 25th or 26th man on the roster, any deals will come from the minor leagues, and should.
“Fraley is a silver slugger in his role and a crucial part of the nucleus of this offense.”
He is very valuable and personally I’d like to see what he could do with regular ABs against LH pitching. However I wouldn’t put him in the “nearly untouchable category” if a good deal comes along.
@Harry, is there any reason you use a pejorative name for Fairchild? Why can’t you make your point without getting personal?
Harry>>> I’ve never said Fraley wasn’t valuable. His value with somebody in house to replace him 1 for 1, i.e. CES, is what makes him the guy to move to get what they need, pitching. Leading a package with Fraley will save on the prospect capital that also has to be added to close the deal.
Teams that do not have 5 or more (other) guys with 800+ OPSes versus RH pitching will spend to get somebody like Fraley. Because the Reds do have those other guys, they can afford to move Fraley for what they need and without loss of production if CES performs to projection. As you pointed out, other teams might even be better off letting Fraley bat vs LH pitching than they are without him.
Moving Fraley only opens a spot for CES. Steer becomes the everyday LF with CES and Votto sharing 1B/DH versus RH pitching and Stephenson’s catching duties coordinated to get him DH time vs LH pitching with Votto sitting out. RF would be manned by Benson and whoever, depending whether he needs a platoon partner.
Yes, it has been 50 years ago, but the Reds traded a guy Fraley’s current age coming off a 137 OPS+ season, Lee May, in the deal that brought Joe Morgan (and others to the Reds). That trade worked because they had another guy in house, Tony Perez, to fill May’s spot and the trade return also brought them a bridge in Dennis Menke.
Trading Fraley would be the same in principle.
I’m not aware that today’s players are particularly coddled. If nothing else, the growing emphasis on fitness would seem to mitigate against that judgment. As for team chemistry, my guess is that it’s rarely either/or. A team of talented veterans–the BRM, the Yankees of the Billy Martin era–may lack it in any recognizable form and may not need it to win. But a very young team–this year’s Reds–may benefit greatly from the obvious joy and mutual support that they display.
My vote here is stay the course for reasons probably expressed here many times on RLN . $ will be freed up next year for free agents and ownership MUST spend serious bucks, at least serious for the Reds. Reds have Lodolo and Green coming back in about a month. 2-3 relief pitchers back or coming back. Finding diamonds in the rough SP like Lively and Abbott. So far the Reds great play IMO is found money. Imagine where we would be if our big three starters did not get hurt and
constantly pitched up to their abilities. No one expected this kind of year. We lucked out and hit the jackpot with EDLC and MLB rule changes that made stealing bases much easier and we happen to have fast young players at most positions. So all this talk of serious trades is fun but I don’t see it happening especially the prices that will be charged for pitching which most teams need. Supply and demand. Having quality position depth is key to any good teams long term winning because of the eventual injuries to starters. We as Reds fans are so giddy right now with winning and we are so starved for any reason to cheer I hope we don’t lose sight of the big picture. GO REDS.
For nearly 40 years I have served in our Armed Forces as both Soldier and civilian. “Team” chemistry is real despite the fact that often we cannot pinpoint or substantially articulate the intangibles that contribute to that chemistry. I see comments about who we should trade, who we should make available . . . and I get it – to get a very tangible (pitching) return we very much so must give up something of value, whether it is value currently in the “formation” or perceived or real value down on the farm. All I know is that if Krall pulls a trigger he has to think about the 2nd and 3rd order effects in the dugout and heaven help the Reds if that gut punch undoes everything that this team has achieved in a season that we thought was maybe 70 wins at best mere weeks ago. Can you imagine the effect if the Reds trade a leader/strong contributor, get SP or backend BP help, and then that SP goes an inning and a third in his first start or the BP guy blows a 3-run lead in the 9th? Gut punch. I really like this team and will follow them no matter what happens; but I’d like them to stay the current course without hamstringing the rest of this season or mortgaging their 2024 season. I’m all for making a deal but it has to make sense both today and tomorrow.
“For nearly 40 years I have served in our Armed Forces as both Soldier and civilian.”
Thank you for your service sir. 🙂
Many thanks Melvin!
There’s some discussion here on Bieber and ironically mlbtraderumors just put out a piece about him too. It’s a good read and a lot of the things they talk about were already highlighted here.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/07/shane-bieber-drawing-trade-interest.html
“There’s also the ever-present risk of an injury putting a dent in a pitcher’s value at any point.”
Teams might want to complete a trade sooner for that very reason. KC traded Chapman already….unfortunately.