Cincinnati took a lead in the top of the 9th and then saw Kansas City tie things up in the bottom of the inning with a 2-out solo home run that sent the game into extras. After the Reds scored in the top of the inning the real fun began as Ricky Karcher came out for his big league debut and walked the tightest of tight ropes to strand the tying and go-ahead runs in scoring position for a save in his first ever Major League game.

Final R H E
Cincinnati Reds (32-35)
5 10 1
Kansas City Royals (18-48)
4 8 0
W: Farmer (2-3) L: Hernandez (0-4) SV: Karcher (1)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

The first inning did not go the way of the Cincinnati Reds. Matt McLain singled and was followed up by a single off of the bat of Jonathan India. McLain tried going first to third, but an absolutely perfect throw from MJ Melendez got him at the bag in a bang-bang play. A ground out could end the top of the inning.

In the bottom of the inning Luke Weaver got two quick outs and was ahead 0-2 on Melendez, but he singled on the third pitch and that got the Royals rolling. Bobby Witt Jr. walked and then Michael Massey doubled them both in as Kansas City took a 2-0 lead. They would add to their lead in the 2nd inning after Drew Waters walked, moved to third on a single, and then scored on a sacrifice fly. Cincinnati would get that run back when Stuart Fairchild led off the 3rd inning with a homer that made it 3-1.

In the bottom of the 5th the Royals got a leadoff walk from Nick Pratto and then a single from Salvador Perez. Luke Weaver was able to retire the next two batters, though Pratto moved to third on a fly out. That’s when Cincinnati made a call to the bullpen to bring in Alex Young to face off against Michael Massey and it paid off as he picked up a strikeout to end the inning.

Luke Maile led off the top of the 6th with a double off of the wall in center. TJ Friedl followed up with a double of his own to drive in Maile and make it a 3-2 ballgame. Matt McLain hit a high chopper to shortstop, which allowed Friedl to move up to third as the throw beat McLain to first. Jonathan India hit a grounder past a drawn in infield for an RBI single to tie the game up.

In the top of the 7th Will Benson lined a ball into the gap in right-center and tried to turn it into a triple, but the Reds didn’t learn the first time and tested MJ Melendez once again and they paid for it as the relay throw easily beat Benson to the bag. That may have been crucial as Luke Maile walked and TJ Friedl had a bloop double but both would be stranded on the bases and the game remained tied up.

Fernando Cruz took over for the bottom of the 7th inning and he made easy work of the Royals top of the order as he picked up two strikeouts in a perfect inning. In the top of the 8th it was former Reds closer Aroldis Chapman coming into the game to face the middle of the Cincinnati order. He would strike out the side, though it certainly appeared that Elly De La Cruz should have gotten a walk on the final pitch of his at-bat.

Casey Legumina took over for Cincinnati in the bottom of the 8th inning and walked Bobby Witt Jr. to start the inning. After a strikeout, Edward Olivares single into left to put runners on 1st and 2nd. That would be it for Legumina as the Reds called on Buck Farmer from the bullpen. Maikel Garcia lined out, but Witt Jr. tagged up and moved to third on the play. Olivares stole second base to put two men in scoring position, but Farmer took care of business by striking out Drew Waters to keep the game tied up and send it to the 9th.

Cincinnati began the top of the 9th inning with a single from Tyler Stephenson off of new reliever Scott Barlow. TJ Hopkins came on to pinch run for Stephenson and then Will Benson walked. Stuart Fairchild laid down a sacrifice bunt to move the runners over and the move paid off as pinch hitter Kevin Newman hit a sacrifice fly to plate Hopkins and put the Reds up 4-3.

When the bottom of the 9th inning began it was Buck Farmer back to the mound and there was no action in the bullpen for Cincinnati. He got two ground outs to start the inning, but he threw a change up in the middle of the plate and Salvador Perez hit it 421 feet into the stands to tie the game up. A lazy fly ball would end the inning but the damage was done and onto the 10th it went.

The 10th inning began with TJ Friedl on second base as the Reds free runner. He moved over to third on a broken bat ground out to first base. Jonathan India battled for a 9-pitch at-bat and on that final pitch he grounded the ball to third and Friedl took off to the plate and was called out. Cincinnati quickly challenged both the fact that Salvador Perez was blocking the plate and that Friedl was potentially safe anyways. After the review there was no blocking of the plate, but the out call was overturned as the replay showed Friedl got his foot to the plate before the tag to give the Reds a 5-4 lead.

Ricky Karcher trotted in out of the bullpen for the bottom of the 10th inning to make his big league debut. He had an ERA of 9.27 and 34 walks in 22.1 innings for Triple-A Louisville this season. MJ Melendez began the inning on second as the Royals free runner. Five pitches later Bobby Witt Jr. found himself on first base after a walk. Nate Eaton then took over as a pinch runner for Melendez.

Michael Massey tried to bunt twice, with the second attempt being the luckiest foul ball he’s ever had in his life because the 98 MPH fastball from Karcher would have him him in the face if it didn’t hit his bat first. Two pitches later he flew out to center and neither runner could advance. That mattered little as both runners stole a base on the next pitch to put the tying and winning runs in scoring position. After badly missing the strikezone twice, an automatic strike was called for a pitch timer violation on Edward Oliveras. He then popped out for the second out of the inning. That brought Maikel Garcia to the plate. Karcher battled to a  full count before getting Garcia to fly out to left field to end the game and pick up a save in his big league debut.

Key Moment of the Game

Curt Casali’s bottom of the 10th inning. He made numerous catches on pitches nowhere near the strikezone that could have advanced runners for Kansas City in the inning.

Notes Worth Noting

Ricky Karcher is the first Reds pitcher to be credited with a save in his big league debut. That comes with the asterisk that the save wasn’t something that existed until 1960, though. If we go back before that it has happened two other times – with the last being from Art Jacobs in 1939.

Tyler Stephenson picked up two more hits and is now 11-30 (.367) in the last eight games.

Elly De La Cruz saw his 6-game hitting streak to begin his career come to an end.

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

Cincinnati Reds vs Kansas City Royals

Tuesday June 13th, 8:10pm ET

Brandon Williamson (0-0, 5.40 ERA) vs Jordan Lyles (0-10, 6.84 ERA)

183 Responses

  1. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Friedl just said Casali did an amazing job in the 10th.

    That is probably the biggest understatement so far this season.

    • JB

      Dude needs an ice bath. He put in a whole games worth of catching in one inning.

      • Redsvol

        This is why you keep Casali on the big league roster. It’s like having a very hood catching coach on the field. Karcher might get better in the 10 days he is up if he throws and listens to curt casali.

        Is that worth tying up a 3rd roster spot in a catcher? Probably not in a pennant race but I think it is right now for the state of Reds pitching.

        And kudos to you – Doug – for mentioning Casali’s play as the moment of the game. Also Kevin Newman for a clutch sacrifice fly in the 9th to break the tie. That shouldn’t be overlooked.

      • SteveAReno

        Kevin Newman’s sacrifice fly for the RBI was in a very pressure packed situation and came through despite the difficulty of that.

    • Bob R

      He deserves a lot of credit. Caught almost uncatchable pitches. Ugliest save I’ve ever seen but I’ll take the W.

  2. Lid

    That was hilarious … Casali, “we need to work on the fastball” … Karcher on how did he get the save … “I don’t know … “

    • redfanorbust

      Don’t forget the S bomb he dropped when being interviewed by Day after the game. It took a second for it to register with me but then I laughed.

    • Dennis Westrick

      Perfect nickname for Karcher! Doubt if many batters will “dig in” when facing the Wild Thing!

      • Simms11

        Actually if you watched the postgame interview, the first thing that came to my mind was Nuke LaLoosh…”It’s out there…I mean really out there”

    • Steve H

      A lot of great pitchers started off a little bit wild. Randy Johnson, Jim Maloney, Sandy Koufax, are just 3 that come to mind. He may comearound with coaching and repetetion.

  3. Eddiek957

    Nice road win. Get another tomorrow

    • TR

      Another needed and unexpected win toward five hundred %. Keep it up in KC before a probable tough weekend in Houston.

  4. RedlegScott

    “Escape” is right, Doug. Good thing we were playing the Royals. Multiple opportunities to put the game away offensively, but it didn’t happen. 10 K’s didn’t help. Elly and Steer o-ferd. Weaver OK at best, but hey, only three earned runs. We’ll take it, right? Bullpen superb except for one pitch with two outs in the 9th. Karcher saves the day in the 10th. Winning pretty ugly but winning nonetheless.
    P.S. Our old pal A. Chapman struck out the side, the heart of the order, and made it look easy. Trade for him? He’d probably love to leave KC.

    • TR

      Would he, A. Chapman, like to come back to where it all started and where the Reds future looks real good. I’d certainly prefer him than Karcher.

    • Westfester

      Trading for Chapman likely begins with the Royals demanding 2 of Marte, CES, India, McClain, or Abbott.

      • redfanorbust

        Hey Westfester. No way Reds pay anywhere near that price especially since Chapman is only signed through the end of this year. I would not trade any one of those players you mentioned straight up for Chapman but would still like to have him on our team for the right price.

      • Chris

        Rumor has it that they are trying to package Barlow and Chapman, so they can dump specifically Barlow’s salary of $5 mil+. We could use both of the those guys and not deal anything of real value. If this team truly wanted to win, they could probably benefit from a trade here. Fact is, they are still worrying about dollar issues, which is why CES is not up here, because they don’t want to dump players with current contracts. You don’t get to pick win your team competes, but the Reds ownership tends to disagree.

  5. JB

    On Kirk Gibsons memorable home run off the bench in the World Series, Jack Buck was calling the game for the national radio broadcast and he said: “I don’t believe what I just saw.” Vin Scully on the other hand was calling the game for the local TV broadcast and he had an equally historic call: “In a year that has been so improbable, the impossible has happened.” If those two Gentleman were alive today I solely believe that’s what they would have said about Ricky Karchers debut tonight. Simply incredible .

  6. Melvin

    Pretty funny crazy game there at the end. Glad we won. 🙂

  7. CFD3000

    I often say if you watch closely enough, in any game you’ll see something you‘ve never seen before. This game you didn’t have to watch that closely. I was sure the two outs at third would haunt the Reds, and also sure that Karcher couldn’t get through a clean 10th with a speedy ghost runner starting at second. And I was happily wrong. Jim Day will not be begging to interview Ricky Karcher again soon, but that’s an amazing major league debut on so many levels. Really nice win on a night when a loss would have been brutal. What will we see tomorrow night?

  8. Indy Red Man

    Guy hits .362 and prob leads league in Hrs no call-up. Starter has a 6 + era (Willi?amson) and reliever has a 9.27 (Karcher) and they get called up

    Alrighty then?

    • Harry Stoner

      He hit .600 in ST and Bell blew him off.

      “Today isn’t his day.”

      • greenmtred

        Purportedly it wasn’t his day because his defense was poor. An earlier note you guys probably saw said that he’s an extreme bad-ball hitter. That may not work as well in MLB as it does in AAA. Whatever, the Reds are mostly scoring well without him, but I bet he’ll be up soon. Looking forward to it and enjoying what I’m seeing now.

      • Chris

        That’s not Bell’s decision. Bell wants to keep his job, NO WAY is he advocating for keeping CES in AAA.

    • Jim Walker

      At least our guy Stu had a good game. Had the HR, sac bunt to set what should have been the winning run and saved some bases in the OF.

      • Indy Red Man

        Yeah you know Stu takes way too many first pitch meatballs. Glad to see him smoke one. He’s got power. Personally I think he’s better (and healthier) then Senzel if it comes down to 1 or the other

      • Jim Walker

        Agree. He is a guess hitter. He also needs to quit guessing so much at 2 strikes and defend the strike zone. He has the bat quickness to do that and the speed to pick up leg hits if he does.

        As far as the Senzel comp, there is no comparison of them as OF. Stu is quicker after the ball, runs better routes, and saves a heck of a lot of bases by cutting balls off and making quick intelligent throw ins. He is also the better base runner.

        Senzel’s advantage in the upcoming roster shakedown is that he hits LH pitching better which positions him to be Fraley’s platoon partner.

        Fairchild is right where Friedl was this time last year. Nice start in 2022, 116 OPS+, but has been up and down in 2023. If he gets sent back to AAA, hopefully like Friedl, he goes to school and works out his offensive issues whether to be with the Reds or someone else in 2024.

      • Redsvol

        @jim – does Senzel really hit lefties well? Or is it just a really small sample size. He was terrible against lefties last year across a larger sample.

        Hopefully the astros think he hits lefties really well and trade us something for him.

      • SlippinJimmy

        The Terminator Stewie Fairchild is an asset to the team. He is so reliable at any position in the outfield, and while he has been in a bit of a slump lately, he is a very capable hitter, and of course he has speed. His expression never changes because nothing ever phases him!

        I would take him over Benson without question.

      • Jim Walker

        @redsvol>>> Senzel’s career OPS vs LH pitching is .763 (330 PA). Fairchild’s is .739 (131 PA). Fairchild’s is slightly better than the MLB average vs LH pitching for the period over which it has been compiled. Senzel’s is a nudge over 25% better than the league average on the same basis.

      • Jim Walker

        @slippinJ> Stu has had a couple of nice offensive streaks of several games each over the last month as the team has played a game or 2 over .500. However he has not been able to maintain a baseline between positive streaks to break out and move his OPS to and above league average let alone to the 116 OPS+ he compiled in 2022.

        As Indy and I suggested at the top of this sub thread, he needs to get after more good pitches he is taking earlier in counts to build his slugging and also quit guessing with 2 strikes and just battle through which would hopefully result in more walks and hits to bounce his OBP back up to the .350 range where it was earlier in the year.

    • Old Big Ed

      Well, they needed pitchers, not first basemen.

      I actually wouldn’t be surprised to see Karcher DFA’d in the next few days, to be replaced by Duarte. The reality of modern baseball, especially when a team gets into a rut of a lot of 4-5 inning starts, is that relief pitchers move up and down all the time. Most of the transactions involving relievers over the last couple of weeks are examples of guys being brought up for short stints, purely to distribute innings in a stressed bullpen.

      • Chris

        Looking at the numbers for Karcher, that kid should still be in AA. Yes, I’m sure he was nervous, but his AAA numbers show that he’s not even close to having any sort of control.

  9. JB WV

    I can’t believe we won this game. When Karcher came in I killed my glass of wine and prayed. It worked.

    • Jim Walker

      Kudos to Karcher and Casali too. But what kind of bullpen management ends up with Karcher being the man in that 10th inning situation?

      • Optimist

        No Sims, Gibaut or Diaz and they have an off day Thursday – a very useful cascade effect.

      • RedlegScott

        That’s what I’d like to know. Is Diaz really that spent when he only pitches one inning per game? Bell looked like a genius with the end result, but I sure had my doubts. (Good job, Casali.)

      • Jim t

        When it takes your starter 93 pitches to get through 4.2 innings that’s the kind of bull pen management.

        Can anyone tell me when was the last time we got 7 innings out of a starting pitcher?

      • Redsvol

        Our pen is spent. They’ve had to pitch a high # of innings at an early point in the season. I think they’re trying to do everything possible to start ratcheting that back to avoid pen imploding in July and august.

      • Doc

        Seven innings out of a pitcher? Ben Lively a couple starts ago.

      • Jim t

        @Doc it certainly don’t happen often anymore. I remember back in the day when pitching staffs were 10 people

      • greenmtred

        The way you might manage a bullpen that will be dealing with the Astros next?

      • Jim Walker

        @greenmtred> My vantage point is that there are 162 chances to get a win (now down to 95 remaining in 2023). A win vs KC counts as much as a win vs Houston and a loss to either counts the same also.

        Thus when a team has a 1 run lead when the opposition comes to bat in the 9th (or extra innings), if the closer or top setup man can be used without undue fear of injury, they should be used to nail down the win. Worry about who pitches on Friday when Friday comes.

      • greenmtred

        I get that, Jim. You could say generally, though, that it would be easier for Reds to come back against the Royals than the Astros. But my thought is that the season is 15 games shy of the halfway point–lots of possibly meaningful baseball yet to play, and Diaz is absolutely essential; one could make the case that he’s the single most important Red at this point, and we actually don’t know whether he can handle multiple days in a row, nor what the consequences might be if he did. We do know that he may be needed in the remainder of this series and is likely to be needed against a very tough team in the following series. Glad I don’t make these decisions. (a hearty “here here” from the rest of RLN.)

      • Chris

        I remember thinking to myself in the 2nd game of the Cardinals series when Bell brought in Diaz in a non save situation, that this may come back to haunt the Reds. Almost did, since he was not available last night.

  10. Indy Red Man

    Think about it….how exactly is a hitter supposed to lock in on a breaking ball when the dude is throwing 98 and has zero idea where it’s going. He might’ve killed that guy if he dropped the bat instead of trying to bunt

  11. Indy Red Man

    That batter delay strike call was huge too.
    3-0 to 3-1

    • MBS

      Turning point in the game imo. KC was poised to score, and we had no back up plan to Karcher.

      • redfanorbust

        Agreed and I am not sure most times we end up with the lead for him to even have a save opportunity given how it played out. How many times does someone score from third on a shape grounder to the infield which I think was pulled in anyway? Same story with EDLC scored the same way the other day. Anyway it was bang bang and if catcher had not dropped the ball he would have been out. Thank goodness Casali was able to play the human Gumby and stretch and catch for so many wild fastballs or Reds lose this game. Lucky win IMO.

  12. Nick in NKY

    Probably gonna call him Rickety Karcher from now on. Sheesh.

    • CI3J

      Just call him Wild Thing.

      Anyone try giving the kid some glasses?

      • Oldtimer

        I remember Duren. Reds on 1964 (I think).

      • greenmtred

        I didn’t remember that: I remembered him as a Yankee. He was a very hard thrower and would famously throw a warm-up pitch or two over the backstop just to give the hitters something unsettling to think about.

  13. Protime

    Bring back Chapman with Barlow. What else does CES has to do get the call up? It’s absolutely pathetic that he is still in Louisville….

    • VaRedsFan

      Barlow didn’t impress me at all.

      • Chris

        Barlow is having a down year on a bad team. Bottom line is that we have to take him with Chapman if we want Chapman and don’t want to give up any real prospects. I think Barlow would be a lot better if he was in a pennant race. Just a hunch.

  14. 925or1Griddy

    This is MLB. I am tired of losing and playing for next year. No Diaz, Gibaut, or Sims. That’s mismanagement by David Bell. Pirates and Brewers both off today. You have to get that WIN let’s worry about back end bullpen arms after we win today. The reds could hang 15 on them tomorrow in the front 8 and then they aren’t needed. Win today at whatever cost. 1 of those 3 should have been sent out.

  15. Indy Red Man

    India has 16 rbis in 17 games. I suggested the #3 hole because Freidl was coming back and why mess with what McLain is doing. It’s all experimental at this point. Guys closing with 9.27 era’s in the minors. Why not?

  16. Steve Schoenbaechler

    Karcher is our “Wild Thing”, like many have said. Just go ahead and cue up the music.

    If we are buyers at trade deadline time, I hope we get some starters/innings eaters or relievers.

    Someone said about the Reds rebuild in a small market, questioning it. I’ve said before I believe the Reds are trying to build a Rays 2.0. I wouldn’t be surprised to see another 1-2 more firesales.

    I’ve been one of the most critical about Bell and his use of the pen. I could question tonight, bringing in Karcher instead of one of the others. But, I read somewhere where they are going to be relied on for the next 2 games, off day Thursday. So, while I could question it, I won’t fault it. The bigger question would be, “Is this the best the organization can bring up at this time of the season?”

    Man, I don’t know of Karcher could hit a baseball with the broad side of a barn (yes, I did mean it like that). He!! of a catching job by Casali. Just while I’m wondering to get rid of Casali or Maile and just carry 2 catchers, leaning towards keeping Maile, Casali does that? Job Well Done. I don’t know if Jamar Chase could have caught those balls any better.

    • Redsvol

      It is kind of sad that this is best we have to bring up in a tight spot from the minors. It stinks that Derek law is injured – he had become very reliable. But they used him too much and that’s what happens. Starters have to pitch longer.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        I’ve said before. . .bullpens are crapshoots. You could easily pay out the wazoo for a bullpen, and they end up being a crappy bullpen. For, pay little and have the best bullpen in the league.

        But, starters? That’s an entirely different story. I’ve also said that our success is going to be based on how good our starting pitching is. As in, I was hoping that Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft would be able to get 500 innings total.

      • Chris

        It’s not. They chose to shuffle pitchers after each game over the last few games, and got themselves stuck with bringing up Karcher and Khunel, who they have already shuffled back. This one is on Krall, who overall has done an amazing job.

  17. TMS

    I’m thinking that Ricky Karcher needs the nickname “Radar.”

    He doesn’t need a strike zone. He needs an air traffic control radar!

    • RedlegScott

      How about ‘Sonar?’ He uses echolocation, like a bat, to find the strike zone.

      • greenmtred

        Bats are pretty accurate, so maybe not.

  18. Steven Ross

    Jeff Brantley after the final out: I need a drink. Classic. He is so good. Much better than Chris Welch and I like Chris but Jeff describes the game within the game.

    Tip of the cap to Curt Casali. He caught an entire game in the 10th alone! Whomever called Karcher “Wild Thing” is spot on. Good win, grand entertainment. Let’s keep it going.

    • greenmtred

      Brantley’s anecdote about Greinke intentionally throwing Votto a slider that didn’t break to make him pop up (he did) really got my attention. That kind of pitching skill is rare: Maddox, certainly, but who else in recent years? Kershaw? I suspected our young hitters might have trouble with him and thought how good it might be for our pitchers to absorb what he knows.

  19. Mark Moore

    Looks like I’ll have to go back and play the 9th and 10th innings. It was late and that app on the bedroom TV kept rebooting on me. Glad we found a way to get on top and stay there. First one in the can is always a good thing.

  20. RedsGettingBetter

    Ok, good , Karcher made it, he got a save in his debut to be honest he is not ready to the big leagues, should work hard on his command…
    I really think the Reds were going to lose this game,after bad starting pitching outing and base running and gave a game tying homer after 2 outs in the 9th with Karcher as reliever in charge for the rest of the game…
    The starting pitching matchup for tonight looks better than the opener just noting Jordan Lyles is 0-10 with 6.84 ERA, although hoping Williamson could do it well

  21. Kevin Patrick

    It is rare for me to enjoy the post game interview as much as I did last night. I’ve been laughing about it all morning. Somebody posted on twitter the pitch sequence for Karcher’s appearance…oh my god…hysterical. That was the funniest thing I’ve seen on the field since Blandino’s national anthem standoff.

  22. Ghostrunner_onthird

    “It’s like a movie, Bro.” Would have been a good title for the recap lol.

    • LT

      I did not know Rick Vaughn has a little brother

  23. SultanofSwaff

    Anyone else catching ’99 team vibes? So many comeback wins from that squad…..these guys today are doing it too.

    Man, I’ve seen some bad umpiring, but the balls and strikes last night was as bad as I’ve seen all season…..just consistently awful.

    Interesting that Chapman said he’d like to finish his career where he started and would welcome a return to Cincy.

    • greenmtred

      Wow! Wonder what the price would be? Nasty Boys redux?

  24. Tampa Red

    I read a recap of the potential trade market for SP/RP on The Athletic this morning. Extremely underwhelming, which will make the trade price steep.

    I’d prefer we just keep shuffling between Louisville and Cincinnati and hope for return to health and productivity from Lodolo, Ashcraft and maybe an unlikely bonus of 1-2 of Santillian/Antone/Dunn.

    • greenmtred

      I certainly wouldn’t trade much in the way of prospects, but pitching is the issue and it doesn’t sound like there’s much help on the farm.

    • redfanorbust

      A solid return of Antone would be huge IMO although given everything that has happened to him seems like a bit of a long shot.

  25. Old Big Ed

    I wonder if the Royals and Zack Greinke would agree to a deadline trade to the Reds? Greinke isn’t going to make the playoffs with the Royals, and he wouldn’t command a big prospect in return at this stage of his career.

    The Reds may be the type of team that Greinke would like to play for in his last hurrah. Kauffman Stadium, though, is a better venue for his remaining skills than is GABP.

    • MBS

      I’ve been wonder the same thing, it’s worth the call to see what it would take. Like you said, it should be a big return. Also they need to have that discussion for Chapman too.

      I was just looking at Giolito from the White Sox. He’s also a rental, a decade younger, with a 3.54 ERA. He’s still a rental, so his price shouldn’t be exorbitant, but it will easily be double what Greinke will cost the farm.

    • Earmbrister

      Count me in the minority of those here who don’t want to trade for starting pitching. The pitching staff is young, but with much upside. An argument can be made that the Reds have 3 to 4 pitchers who could grow into TOR types. I like what they have now in:



      All of these guys have more upside than downside. Not interested in mortgaging the future in order to MAYBE get marginal improvement and MAYBE make the playoffs this year. Play the youngsters and let them sort themselves out.

  26. Redgoggles

    We have a long way to go, without the pitching depth needed to make playoffs imo. Time to sell high on Farmer, Gibaut, India, and Diaz in that order if we are still around .500 at deadline. If Krall can replicate the haul from last year, it only strengthens the farm and extends our competitive window, which I would prefer to going for it this year. The future is looking brighter than it has in a long time!

    • Zach

      Trade Diaz? He’s controllable until 2028. They should reassess around 2025 at the earliest. Farmer and Gibaut won’t return much.

      India is our young leader, but it is an interesting trade piece. I say don’t trade him at this point since the team is having fun and winning.

      • Redgoggles

        Yeah, that would make him very valuable and as much as I appreciate him (and as a fan would hate it), I’m thinking relief pitchers are fickle and injury prone. If someone wants to significantly overpay during a year that I doubt we seriously compete for championships, I would consider it.

    • Chris

      Some people just like rebuilding and mediocrity. This is just lunacy.

      • Redgoggles

        Lunacy – or maybe I would say insanity – is short circuiting a true rebuild to becoming a buyer in a year where we are overachieving and still not yet to .500 with a smoke/mirror pitching staff. (Our run differential is still -33.)

        2023 has always been about sorting, which has been a smashing success so far. Let’s stay the course, and if contending teams want to overvalue some of our pieces, let’s take advantage and built the team up further for a longer window, that should be open beginning in 2024.

      • greenmtred

        Agree, Redgoggles. If pitching help can be found without sacrificing top prospects or key players, fine. But We don’t even know yet what we have and, given the youth and injury status of our starting pitchers, we don’t really know about them, either.

  27. CFD3000

    You don’t need the same rotation depth in the playoffs as the 162. So if the Reds did win the weak NL central this year, they’d need three healthy starters – Greene, Lodolo?, Abbott? Ashcraft? And they’d need a stronger back of the bullpen. How good would Diaz, Sims, Farmer, and… Chapman look? No need to sell the farm but I’d be interested in an Aroldis upgrade. He looked unhittable last night.

  28. LDS

    Knock off the trade fantasies unless the bait is the Senzel, Newman, Myers variety. Otherwise stick with the rebuild. Nightengale’s tweet on the Central Division W/L records since 4/24 says it all – the Reds are the best at 25-20. Coincidentally, Myers hit the IL on 4/27 and again on 5/26. It’s a very weak division. Maybe the Reds win the division though likely not. Regardless, they aren’t winning the World Series or even the pennant. Enjoy the wins as they come and wait for the future years. And once Votto, Myers, Ramos, et al, return, the Reds will likely not do as well. At least, that’s been the history so far.

    • Tom Mitsoff

      I agree with the idea that you don’t pillage the farm system to trade for rentals — at least this year. However … Aroldis Chapman looked pretty unhittable last night, and was quoted this morning that he would enjoy returning to Cincinnati, where he started. If the Reds continue to hover around .500 and the middle of the pack, they shouldn’t make any big moves. But if they go on a real hot streak and take the lead in the Central Division in July, I’d have serious talks with KC about Chapman. And KC is not going to want any of the names you mention. They’re going to want to do what the Reds did last year to Seattle and Minnesota. If the Reds could get Chapman and another decent reliever that they could control for at least a couple more years, I’d very much have to be open to at least considering surrendering an upper-tier prospect. IF they are clearly a contender for the division title and more. If not, don’t go there.

      • RedlegScott

        Not much room for Marte. He might be considered one of those prospects.

      • Melvin

        Fraley for Chapman? Teach Marte to Play RF?

      • Jim Walker

        I just read an article on The Athletic last week by old friend Zach Buchanan in which “scouts” saw Noelvi Marte as a solid everyday MLB contributor but most likely not quite a “star”. Given he is tearing up AAA, this sounds exactly like the type of guy to offer for Chapman et al.

        And sadly, I must also report that Zach himself was waived yesterday by The Athletic for the purpose of granting him an unconditional release in an across the board “4% staffing cutback”. Nothing against the new guy at the Enquirer/ Cincy (.)com who took Bobby Nightengale’s spot; but, too bad the timing just missed on the possibility to bring Zach back to the Reds beat there.

      • Jim Walker

        Above should have said…..

        Given he (Noelvi Marte) is tearing up AA (NOT AAA) , this sounds exactly like the type of guy to offer for Chapman et al.

      • Tom Mitsoff

        @Melvin — if Chapman keeps pitching as he is now, KC will receive several offers for him. Fraley is not what they’re looking for. He’s a decent player, but with little chance of advancing to another tier of excellence. So the idea of Marte (mentioned above) for Chapman and more might be something to consider.

      • Melvin

        Tom – I like Chapman but he’s 35. I don’t know if I’d give up Marte for him.

      • Tom Mitsoff

        @Melvin — neither would I, one-for-one. I’d need something else from KC, preferably another reliever with two or more additional years of team control. My best guess is that it’s unlikely these two teams will match up well for a trade, and Chapman will go to a team like Tampa, Texas or Atlanta that is really only that far away from a World Series.

      • Chris

        No one is going to give much up for Chapman. Too much baggage. They want to deal Chapman with their closer so they can dump money. It would not take a lot to get the two of them due to the money owed still. Nobody is going to give them any major prospects for them.

    • Optimist

      Oh no – don’t let Marte go anywhere – he’s the final piece due from last season’s transactions. If he’s already solid MLB regular to some scouts, a slight nudge makes him AS level or better.

      Take a look at Doug’s top 25 prospect list – keep the top 10, and those already in MLB (Williamson, Abbott) and make most of the rest of the list available – there’s a lot of possibility there.

      Also, let’s not repeat or copy prior mistakes – just consider what most felt when the Reds moved Chapman, and then consider the Cubs gave up Torres for Chapman as a rental. No need to do that.

      Finally, Reds are nowhere near wanting rentals – at least the Cubs used Chapman to get thru the WS, but he was not in the top 10 reasons they got there.

  29. Roger Garrett

    Was surprised that Plesac was released and nobody took a chance on him especially the Reds.Don’t know how waivers work but he was a former starter and is only 28 and hard to imagine he couldn’t help the Reds especially while we wait on Lodolo and Ashcraft to return.

    • MK

      Would have to clear a 40-man spot to pick him up and that is a problem soon already.

  30. old-school

    Win tonight and its a third straight series and Reds climb back to 2 under.

    Cards are 13 under .500 and Cubs are 9 under. Still cant stop laughing at last nights game,,,from the Cowboy saying after the final out ” I need a drink” and then Laloosh on live TV saying ” I dont know” and then “Holy shi$%”

    Crazy wild ending.

  31. Mark Moore

    Watching our halves of the 9th and 10th. CB Buckner is terrible as evidenced by his calls on MattyMc (5 balls = a full count). That’s the kind of thing that REALLY needs to change. No excuse for it from where I sit.

    Winning the challenge on TJ’s score was HUGE. Now I’ll sit back and watch the Wild Thing do his part.

  32. MBS

    Trade Values

    Senzel 0.5
    Newman -0.6
    Myers -1.9

    Senzel, Newman, and Myers are not going anywhere in trade because they are not worth anything to anyone.

    Fraley 8.9
    India 36.8

    Richardson 7.8
    Stewart 6.8
    Allen 5.6

    Giolito 15.0

    Chapman 6.3
    Grienke 2.7

      • LDS

        I don’t much care about “Trade Values” website. These kind of “ratings” are easy to produce and mean very little IMO. It comes down to negotiation not math. I still say stand pat and play it out. If the Reds have to make a trade, then use the greater fool theory and stick with the guys I mentioned. I’d give up India for Bieber, if and only if Cleveland agreed to take Bell as well. As for Chapman, been there done that – PASS. And for those wanting to include Barlow in the package, I have to wonder why. I’m not seeing it. He’s 6 years in, $5+ million/year, and only 2 of those seasons were notable. The others not. It’s not time for the Reds to be trade aggressive.

    • MBS

      Left off one

      Bieber 39.2 //1.5 years of control
      India 36.8 // 2.5 years of control

      We’d lose a year of control, and who knows if Cleveland would want that kind of deal, they’d probably prefer prospects. I wouldn’t trade India for a handful of prospects, but for a good MLB starter, I would.

      • MBS

        Bad math we’d lose 2 years of control

        India // 3.5 years of control

        I’d still do it.

      • old-school

        I read somewhere Bieber’s velo is down and while still a good pitcher, not the Cy young caliber he was. Reds also have a Competitive balance pick worth about 6-7 on your trade values.

        Id let things play out another few weeks. Santillan started his rehab stint and should be back by early July. Salazar has been good all year and I expect him back up anyday. I also think Ashcraft gets a re-set and hopefully he comes back sharp. Legumina is back healthy and Sims,Gibault, and Farmer and Young have been solid.

        A solid 3 of Greene, Abbott, Lively and Ashcraft isnt impossible and Id rather watch Williamson get 3-4 more starts and see if he can get better.

  33. Indy Red Man

    Karcher 9 fastballs. Any strikes? No
    Save? Yes
    Beyond lucky

    I do think they’ll do something via a trade. Atleast a lefty for the pen or a lower level starter and make Williamson the lefty reliever. From what little I’ve seen his stuff plays better out of the pen, but that’s just a guess. If I was KC I’d consider Fairchild and a prospect for Chapman. They need OFs with wheels

    • redfanorbust

      I like your trade scenario with one caveat. If they can sign Chapman to a one or two year reasonable extension. Otherwise do not see that it would be worth a two month rental for him.

  34. LT

    Curt Casali, being Mr Obvious like Al Michaels, said to Karcher after the game “we need to work on the fastball”

    • RedlegScott

      He was kind left out “and everything else as well.”

  35. MK

    Impressed with Fairchild. Can’t remember the last time a Red hit a home run and a perfect sacrifice bunt in same game. Perfect mechanics on the bunt.

    • Votto4life

      Yeah, I was impressed more with the bunt than Home Run. It still puts a smile on my face that the Reds actually manufactured a run last night. I have really missed small ball.

      • Chris

        Taking away the stupid shifting crap has made the game so much fun to watch again. I can’t help but wonder what kind of numbers Votto would have put up if the switch wasn’t allowed over the last 6 years or so.

  36. Indy Red Man

    One of the guys I really like is righty Nick Martinez with SD. He’s in the pen for them now, but was a starter before. Lifetime era of 4.36 and he came up w Texas when they played in a launching pad as bad/worse then GABP. He’ll be 33 in August and wouldn’t cost that much. He’d be the 3rd-4th starter for us

    • earmbrister

      We don’t need a middle of the rotation type, we have plenty of them if you just go on their potential floors

      TOR potential


      Strong middle of rotation potential


      Decent #5 potential


      There’s no need to trade for a starting pitcher, while giving up assets. Let the youngsters sort themselves out.

      • Optimist

        They need to sign a FA starter – perhaps not #1, but certainly a quality 2 or 3. Gray and Mahle obvious candidates, but there are others. Just need to step up a few levels from the Minor/Weaver/Lively/AAAA types.

        Also, a good chance Williamson is a bit better than a #5-6-7 level starter. Still has very little experience/arm wear, and a good off season or spell in the pen may be enough to elevate his game.

      • Indy Red Man

        I’m glad some still think the Big 3 are all middle of the rotation or better starters.
        Idk? It’s been a rough year. I’d take three #3 starters if they could handle 500 innings. I feel better about Abbott then the rest I think because he understands pitching

        What about Hernandez last night? 102 mph, but he’s never been very good. Cautionary tale for HG or does someone try to trade for Hernandez and coach him up?

      • MBS

        2 Lodolo and Ashcraft are on the IL
        2 Weaver and Lively are over the hill
        1 is a never was, Lively
        1 is a never will, Williamson

        They’re all question marks. To act like this rotation is going to be just fine is a bit silly. Now the time to add to the rotation is debatable. I say there’s no time like the present, but the more cautious want to wait for the offseason.

      • Optimist

        MBS – I doubt anyone reading this thinks this rotation is just fine. Most of us hope Greene and Lodolo can become #1 types, but recognize they’re only mid-level at this point.

        Also consider that a team really needs about 9 starters thru a season – with 5 or 6 on the 26 man at any given point. This season the Reds have actually done quite well with the lower level starters – think of Weaver/Lively/Williamson/Abbott – only Cessa and Overton blew up badly. Look at last season’s list – Zuech and Dugger combined for 4 starts!

        It’s the top of the rotation that has faltered, mostly due to injuries rather than performance. They’ll rehab and return and likely get better.

        Still – need to acquire at least one more good starter for next season.

      • MBS

        I was referring to @earms breakdown, It was a bit to rose colored glasses for me. I saw you said we need to add to the rotation. I agree it’s debatable as to when to add, I’m a why not now guy, but I understand the offseason approach. I also agree about needing more depth.

      • Votto4life

        @MBS you are spot on. This whole “Big 3” stuff is non-sense. I like Hunter Greene, but the rest of them, I just don’t know. Andrew Abbott looks promising. I’m not sure what Nick Lodolo has done to have the Reds pencil him in for 2024 rotation. Is Graham Ashcraft really any better than Luke Weaver? Seems like the Reds have a bunch of number four and five starters.

        The Reds will really need to upgrade their starting rotation before they can expect to go deep into the play-offs. In the post season, they are going to face guys like Clayton Kershaw. The Reds don’t have a number one pitcher who is capable of matching their opponent’s number one. They just don’t.

      • earmbrister

        MBS – Let me preface my response to you with this mantra, which I’ve been repeating all year:

        I DON’T CARE ABOUT THE 2023 SEASON (the Reds are not going to win multiple series in the playoffs this year). They should be building a WS contender.

        It’s very possible, heck even probable, that this rotation will be just fine if the time frame is the next couple of years. It’s irrelevant that Ashcraft and Lodolo are currently on the IL. They both have LEG INJURIES, neither of which seem career threatening (particularly the calf contusion).

        Greene – Complete stud, who is in the process of honing his craft.

        Lodolo – Stud who as a rookie had a a 2.92 ERA with 1.06 WHIP and a 21.3 K/BB% in 77 innings after the All Star break last year.

        Ashcraft – Bulldog who after a very solid rookie year has struggled a bit. Needs to work on his cutter and slider, but the velocity is there.

        Lively – Nice addition to the rotation who has a 4.21 ERA in 36 IP. At age 31, how in the world do you consider him “over the hill”. Of course you also labeled a 29 yr old Weaver as over the hill also.

        Abbott – Top prospect who blew thru AA and handled AAA and is 2-0 with a 0.00 ERA in his first two starts.

        Weaver – Might end up being a passable #5. He sports an ugly 6.23 ERA, but his 1.46 WHIP and 49:15 K:BB over 10 starts (52 innings) are encouraging. Has had a couple of really nice starts.

        Williamson – MIght be a good #5. Small sample size but he has an 88 ERA+.

        I’m not interested in trading for a starter now while mortgaging the future. I’d consider it in the off season or before next year’s deadline, but not now. Let the current staff, which is largely made up of kids, get the IP in the meantime and give them the opportunity to either excel or to fail. There’s no need to make a move now: it most likely will be a bad move.

      • Chris

        @earmbrister. Completely agree with you except for your suggestion that they can’t win a playoff series. I couldn’t agree more. With bad pitching, they still won two of three against the Dodgers. Enhance this bullpen without giving up a whole lot, and bring up CES, along with a couple guys getting healthy, and this team can be much better than any of us thought. A team that runs and makes contact can do serious damage in the post season; which is why the very good team of 2020 failed miserably against the Braves; didn’t run and didn’t make good contact.

      • Earmbrister

        Chris, I didn’t say they couldn’t win a playoff series. I said that they couldn’t win multiple playoff series this year.

        I’m as excited as the next Reds fan about a possible return to the playoffs. However, I’m not gonna spend any serious player or prospect capital just to contend this year.

        As for the doubters, would you’ve traded Greg Maddox or Chris Carpenter after their first couple of years just because they hadn’t dominated the league?

        I’ll take a 4 man rotation of


        over most 2024-2025 rotations.

      • Melvin

        earmbrister – Take the four starters you just mentioned, add Chapman (at the right price) to Diaz along with this offense especially after adding CES and you can definitely compete in the playoffs this year. Again getting Chapman at the right price could be HUGE.

      • Earmbrister

        Hey Melvin. If the Reds get into the playoffs AND are competitive this year I’ll be watching every pitch. But I’m not trading prospect capital like CES or Marte in order to do so. I like the idea of Chapman back in Cincy, but I’m not giving up much to land him.

        The Reds should be aiming to WIN one or more WS in the coming years, not just trying to make the playoffs this year. This year is not the year to be trading off the future.

      • MBS

        @earm, 2 things,

        1 “I DON’T CARE ABOUT THE 2023 SEASON” I do very much care.

        2 “It’s irrelevant that Ashcraft and Lodolo are currently on the IL.” See point 1. It does matter if you want to win. Not only are these 2 on the IL now, but the entirety of the big 3 were also on the IL in 22.

        Depth was an issue in 22, it is an issue now in 23, and will likely be again in 24 unless the Reds make substantive additions. Wavier wire pickups, and Weaver fixer uppers won’t win championships.

      • Melvin

        I agree earmbrister. No big time prospects for Chapman. I do want him bad though. Hope it can be worked out.

  37. Rednat

    This style of baseball the reds are employing is effective, cheap, reproducible and exciting.
    The hitters are grinding out at bats, raising pitch counts and getting to the bullpen early. Then they are using speed to generate runs in the later innings so they don’t have to rely on older expensive power hitters to score late.
    The starting pitching hasn’t been great but I think they understand they don’t have to be perfect. Just try to keep us in the game and avoid the big inning and turn it over to the bullpen. The defense for the most part has been solid.
    I don’t think there is a need right now for another starting pitcher right now but another bullpen arm would be nice. I would love to see Chapman back as a red. . Did Fairchild peak the royals interest enough last night.? Maybe a deal him and Senzel for Chapman?

    • Optimist

      Chapman is FA after this season – way too much to give up.

      • redfanorbust

        Agreed Optimist. Maybe one of them and if Reds could sign Chapman to a one/two year extension.

    • MBS

      I’d do that deal in a microsecond. Neither Fairchild or Senzel are locks for the 24 roster. It would also give Barrero a clearer path of being the super sub. My guess is KC wants prospects, not top end but a flyer type.

      • Redsvol

        me too! A microsecond sounds about right! But they would want prospects with higher ceilings than those 2. We have or are seeing their ceilings.

  38. Greenfield Red

    I don’t want to wish the summer away, but the trade deadline has appeal to me. Once past it, all this silly talk about trading any of these prospects for a rental will die down.

    If Chapman wa to to finish his career in Cincy, great. The Reds can sign him for a year or two in November if they want to.

    They have money to spend. For the 40 mil wasted this year, and in the following 3 years, they can sign the best outfielder or the best starter out there (say 4 years for 120 mil) and still have 10 mil to sign Chapman and another reliever without raising payroll at all.

    • Greenfield Red

      To make that 4/120 even more appealing, they can throw in a couple of opt outs.

  39. Mike

    Imagine pitching to Salvador Perez in the 9th when you don’t have to… We let other teams’ best hitters do this as well

    • greenmtred

      He’s got power, but he’s a career .268 hitter with a career OBP of .301. Not Barry Bonds.

    • Chris

      Would have been foolish to walk Perez and put the winning run at bat. Worst Perez could do is represent ONE run, which he did. One run keeps you in the game.

  40. Amarillo

    This thread is making me happy that fans don’t make trade offers. Maybe we can contend for the Division, but we aren’t competing for a top 2. I don’t see why anyone would give up a top 20 prospect for a 2 month rental, much less someone like Marte.
    If there are any salary dumps out there where we don’t have to give up prospect capital, then yes. But if not, just trade Newman for a compkex league player and call it a deadline.

    • RedlegScott

      Marte and perhaps one other for Chapman? No real room for Marte is there? Plenty of room for Chapman.

      • Amarillo

        Marte + another is as much as the Cubs gave up for Chapman in 2016, and what do you mean no room for Marte? Just look at today’s lineup. Elly, McLain, India, and Steer are all in the lineup and we still have Newman starting at 3rd. Sure, if everyone is healthy (rare) then someone will need to play in the outfield, but that’s a non-issue.

    • Chris

      People aren’t thinking. This team needs to take their package of the Chapman and their closer and would not have to give up hardly anything. NOBODY is going to give a top prospect for Chapman. Isn’t Marte our #3 prospect? LOL; you’d have to be crazy to deal him for Chapman.

  41. MBS

    OK, it was clearly a slow day in the office, but this is probably my last piece of madness before the game tonight.

    Trade India for Bieber
    Trade Richardson, and Stewart for Giolito
    Trade Fraley, Allen, and Comp pick for Chapman, and Barlow

    2023 Rotation: Bieber, Greene, Giolito, Abbott, Lively, Weaver, Ashcraft (IL), Lodolo (IL
    2024 Rotation: Urias (FA) Bieber, Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, Abbott, Phillips, Petty

    2023 Pen: Diaz, Chapman, Barlow, Sims, Young, Gibaut, Farmer
    2024 Pen: Diaz, Chapman(2 year ext), Barlow, Young, Sims, Gibaut

    2023 INF: EDLC, McLain, Steer, CES, DH Votto
    2024 INF: EDLC, McLain, Marte, CES DH Steer

    2023 OF: Friedl, Benson, Myers, Fairchild
    2024 OF: Friedl, Benson, Fairchild, Hopkins

    2023 C: Stephenson, Maile
    2024 C: Stephenson, …

    2023 U: Senzel, Reynolds
    2024 U: Senzel, Barrero

    We’d have a legit shot at the playoffs in 23, and the payroll would still be under $80M in 24, and look how deep our rotation could be.

    • Redsvol

      I like where you’re heading with this @MBS. This team needs a veteran starter or two. I wouldn’t give up much for Giolito since he is a 2-3 month rental however.

      I’m one to believe there will be some salary dumps from teams that are underachieving and looking to manage their 2024 payroll at this trade deadline or the off-season.

      Padres – Joe Musgrove or Nick Martinez
      Toronto – Chris Bassitt & Jose Berrios
      Cleveland – Shane Bieber
      Mariners – Luis Castillo
      White Sox – Lance Lynn (if they pay some of his salary, cause he isn’t worth his option $)

      I hope we think outside the box and look to add payroll instead of relying on the mediocre starters (After Ohtani & Nola) that will be available this off-season.

      Plus, a trade gets you the player without giving a great american small park salary bump that all good pitchers will want for coming to the Reds. These players are already under contract.

  42. LDS

    Lineup is out and guess who is starting again NEWMAN. His slash line against RH pitching .228/.281/.267/.548. Barrero, who Bell only plays against LH’ers? Against RH’ers, Barrero is .232/.297/.366/.663, more than 100 pts on Slg & OPS. Relative to league split averages, Barrero leads Newman on OPS+ by 84 to 55. But Newman is mediocre and brings that veteran presence. Barrero is young, could be good with playing time, and clearly needs to work on his English.

    • Chris

      I’ve got no problem with that. I’ll take Newman in the lineup every day over Barrero. Barrero is the last hitter that I’d have hit on this team. Newman is a solid role player and while he’s not that good, he is a gamer. Barrero will be in AAA within the next two weeks.

      • LDS

        I’d have no problem getting Barrero away from Bell. Choosing Newman over Barrero is simply shortsighted and innumerate

      • Harry Stoner

        Getting Barrero away from Bell is likely a career saving move for Jose.

        No idea what went sour, but it isn’t hard to imagine something did.

        I understand playing Hello against LHs but not against RHs…hasn’t that been the RLN mantra with Newman all along.

        Trade Barrero, get him away from Bell and let him have a career.

        Likely turn into another Didi G, it will remove one less reason to find Bell’s managing to be so mediocre.

        To plumb Bell’s kiss off of CES in ST is another matter.

      • CI3J

        On the bright side, at least Bell finally seemed to figure out to not bat Newman leadoff against righties.

        With Bell/Newman, you take what silver linings you can get.

      • Melvin

        Lopez has been playing SS a lot in AAA lately so Imagine Barrero is headed there soon. Since he’s not playing much at all that’s probably the best thing for him outside of a trade.

      • Chris

        How long does Bell get blamed for Barrero being TERRIBLE? I blame Bell for a lot, but not this. Why is it that other prospects are succeeding under Bell, but Barrero can’t. Last year Barrero was the WORST hitter in the game. This year he’s among the worst. What is it with this love affair of a player that has got the longest leash of any young player that I’ve seen in years? Almost 450 career plate appearances and he carries the worst stats imaginable. If the game was on the line, would any of you rather have Barrero at bat vs any other position player on this team? If your answer is yes, please explain.

      • Frankie Tomatoes

        Other prospects may be succeeding because they aren’t being benched most of the time?

        Nick Senzel was allowed to play nearly every day while being crappy for like five years but Jose Barrero can’t get three starts in a row in three seasons.

        For the first six weeks of the season Barrero and Newman were basically the same hitter but it was Newman who was getting more playing time. Why is that? It isn’t like Newman has some track record of being good.

        Maybe Jose Barrero simply isnt’ going to ever hit. Bell sure as heck isn’t willing to find out like he has been willing to with just about every other player he has had who has struggled – be that Senzel or Friedl or Newman, or Benson now that he is back. There is something more to the story that we don’t know. There has to be.

      • LDS

        @Chris, re-read my opening statement showing the slash line on Newman vs. Barrero. Let’s try some elementary logic here. Barrero’s slash line against RH’ers is better than Newman’s, therefore he’s a better hitter than at least one other ML’er. Further, no one improves/develops playing sporadically. As for last year, he was returning from injury.

      • Old-school

        @ LDS. Here is my theory on Newman and Barrero.

        Krall needed a cheaper version of Farmer as an insurance policy since Barrero was so awful. He got Legumina for Farmer and saved $4 million. He then traded a good young arm in Moreta who is pitching well for the Pirates for NEwman.. Obviously McLain and EDLC have blown up and rendered Barrero no longer in the Reds SS plans. It’s June 13 and the trade deadline period is 5 weeks away or so.

        Krall is trying to play Newman to showcase him so he can recoup a AA relief arm to tie a bow around that Pirates deal where the Reds lost Dauri Moreta. Reds left side of the infield is in fine shape long term with McLain/EDLC/India and Marte.

        Barrero is the CF against lefties and isnt in the Reds plan anymore at SS or 3b for that matter. They will figure out what to do with him later.

    • Redsvol

      I’ll never understand why they’ve kept Barerro on the roster this long. They seem to really be trying to avoid burning his and Fairchild’s 1 remaining option so they can use it for 2024. But they are really stunting his development if that is the thinking. The kid needs to play! Somewhere!

      Why worry about 2024 when he will likely not have much competition for a 5th outfielder or utility infielder role. Our outfield depth is terrible in the upper minors.

      • Chris

        I agree with this. At the very least, send him down so that he can prove everyone wrong. I’m not sure anyone in the game has worse stats than him over the last two years.

    • greenmtred

      I’m suggesting, again, that it’s more than possible that Barrero’s lack of playing time isn’t just a Bell decision. I say this because I doubt that any team would let any manager handle a highly regarded young player this way. It’s hard to conclude anything but that the Reds are either working on something with Barrero or have moved on from him.

    • Redgoggles

      Newman has appeared in 4 more games and has 29 more ABs then Barrero. I think due to his versatility, and on a lesser note his ability to put the ball in play. (ABs like last night when we needed a sac fly, etc.) Barrero is pretty SO prone, and pull heavy. Who here misses the 3 result approach of our teams over the past 5 years? NOT ME. I don’t think Newman has more value to the organization than Barrero, but I do think he is helping them win more games now.

      It’s pretty clear that Barrero isn’t the future SS here, so sending him down to continue developing his overall hit tool and either OF/utility tools would do him – and the organization – some good I would think.

      Hopefully he’ll be ready for his next opportunity. He’s been given several chances already with pretty *meh* results.

  43. Topsider

    The only players on this team I would consider trading are Benson, Barrero, Fairchild, Myers and Steer. This team has a special chemistry and a belief in each other that can take them farther than any pundits or experts imagine. Don’t break them up, we got something special. 3 games below and it’s a party every night. I’ve loved this team for over 50 years, never seen something quite like this.

  44. Votto4life

    I read an article on MLB. Com about potential relievers available at the trading deadline. The first name to come up is Alex Diaz. No doubt a NY Writer who thinks small market teams don’t deserve to have good players.

    The explanation is Diaz could bring back more prospects or even a Major League player that would be an upgrade at another position. No mention of course, how the Reds would replace him as closer.

    • Mark Moore

      I’m not a fan of The Closer as a role, but to suggest he’s available is ridiculous. Probably a NYC writer as you suggest.

    • David

      At this point, I don’t think a major upgrade at any position can be had by trading Alexis Diaz.
      And no, he could be a very important part of the next Great Reds Team…which might only be a season away!!! 2024 could be the start of something big!!!

      And yes, just some guy spouting off about how the Reds should trade for MOAR PROSPECTS!!! As if we exist to be a major league farm team for the New York Teams, LA Teams, etc.
      Next I expect to hear how the Reds should trade EDLC to upgrade the team and the minor league system. Shure ’nuff!
      The Reds minors actually don’t look so hot now, because a lot of the highly regarded prospects are now HERE! (waiting for CES…….tick tock)

  45. VaRedsFan

    Reminder…EDLC will be interviewed on Intentional Talk today…5PM

  46. Old-school

    Kuhnel DFA
    Karcher demoted
    Duarte to 26 man

    • Tom Mitsoff

      They sure are going through all of the relievers at Louisville.

      • MBS

        Yes they are, but they finally called the right one up. Duarte has been the best of the group. Only Salazar was doing better in the pen.

    • Tom Mitsoff

      Also, Ramos activated and optioned to Louisville. Not surprising.