Hunter Greene racked up 11 strikeouts as he dominated the Chicago Cubs for six innings, not allowing a hit along the way. The Reds bullpen carried the no-hitter through the 7th inning before Chicago picked up two singles in the 8th. It didn’t matter much as Cincinnati’s offense got plenty of work done on the afternoon and led the visitors to a 9-0 victory on Friday afternoon.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cincinnati Reds (22-29) |
9 | 19 | 0 |
| Chicago Cubs (22-28) |
0 | 2 | 2 |
| W: Greene (1-4) L: Steele (6-2) | |||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
The Reds didn’t waste much time to get on the board on Friday afternoon. Matt McLain singled with one out and then raced around the bases to score on a triple by Spencer Steer. The hit by Steer extended his hitting streak to nine games. Tyler Stephenson then singled into left to make it 2-0. Two innings later it was Stephenson in the middle of things again, this time doubling with two outs and scoring on a single by Nick Senzel as the Reds made it 3-0.
Hunter Greene wasn’t exactly cruising, as he was running up a pitch count, but he was keeping the Cubs out of the hit column through three innings. Cincinnati would add on to their lead in the top of the 4th to give Greene more wiggle room. Kevin Newman led off with a double off of the wall and scored when Jose Barrero followed with a single – taking second base on the throw to the plate. Curt Casali laid down a sacrifice bunt, but wound up on first when Justin Steele couldn’t handle the throw at first base. Jonathan India then hit a sacrifice fly to make it 5-0. They weren’t quite done yet as Spencer Steer and Tyler Stephenson came through with back-to-back 2-out singles to bring in another run and extend the lead to 6-0.
After Greene kept his no-hitter going by working around a walk with three strikeouts in the bottom of the 4th, the Reds went back on the offensive in the top of the 5th with back-to-back doubles to begin the inning from Stuart Fairchild and Kevin Newman to extend their lead to 7-0.
Hunter Greene would strike out the side in the bottom of the 5th inning, giving him 11 strikeouts in his five no-hit innings. His pitch count also rose to 98 on the day, though. Cincinnati got out to a nice start to the 6th when Matt McLain singled and moved to third on a Spencer Steer double. But after Tyler Stephenson struck out, Nick Senzel hit a fly ball to right field that was caught. McLain tagged up and beat the throw to the plate, but he didn’t touch the plate and was tagged out two seconds after Tucker Barnhart caught the ball to end the inning.
The Reds sent Hunter Greene back out for the 6th inning. There were no strikeouts in the inning, but he went 1-2-3 and kept his no-hitter going as he reached 110 pitches on the day. That would end the day for Greene as the Reds called on Eduardo Salazar to take over in the 7th inning in just his second big league outing. The rookie got things done in the 7th with three ground balls hit to Jonathan India, keeping the Cubs with a zero in the hit column.
Cincinnati would lose the no-hitter to begin the 8th inning when Christopher Morel hit a soft liner into center for a single off of Eduardo Salazar. After a fielders choice, the Cubs picked up another hit to put two men on base. Salazar got Tucker Barnhart to line out for the second out of the inning before Nico Hoerner grounded out to end an 11-pitch at-bat and the inning.
The Reds added two more runs in the top of the 9th after a Stuart Fairchild walk, Jose Barrero double, and a 2-run single from Curt Casali. Fernando Cruz took over on the mound for the Reds in the bottom of the 9th inning. He struck out Edwin Rios before getting Mike Tauchman to fly out to left center, but on the play Will Benson and Jose Barrero clipped each other with Barrero going tumbling onto the warning track. After being checked out by the trainer he remained in the game. Ian Happ would fly out to end the game and kick off the Reds road trip with a victory.
Key Moment of the Game
Tough to pick just one moment as the Cubs never really had much threatening throughout the entire day and Hunter Greene was flat out dominant.
Notes Worth Noting
Hunter Greene picked up his first win of the season and all he needed to do was not give up a hit on the day.
Spencer Steer’s gone 17-40 (.425) during his 9-game hitting streak.
Matt McLain’s big day at the plate raised his average to .325 and his OPS to 1.001 in his first week in the big leagues.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Cincinnati Reds vs Chicago Cubs
Saturday May 27th, 7:15pm ET
Brandon Williamson (0-0, 3.60 ERA) vs Jameson Taillon (0-3, 8.10 ERA)
19 runs and 37 hits in the last two games started by a LH’er. That’s a nice turnaround.
Even Benson got in on the action!
Feast or famine either the Reds. If this continues we will see them struggle tomorrow. Let’s snap out of it and beat them Cubs.
Sincerely, I’m worried about how the Reds offense will perform tomorrow since they don’t have two games in a row scoring a lot of runs from long time ago…I really wish they can do it…
Greene can throw a no-no any time. It is just he comes to the mound as he did it today. It will be sooner than later…
Now, Fairchild and Newman have risen their slash lines so they are battling to stay in the majors more time and don’t be demoted or DFA’d yet…
I think it will be later rather than sooner. Most, though not all, no hitters have much higher pitch counts than Greene is allowed to throw. This is twice he has been pulled with a no hitter in progress. He would have needed 140-150 pitches today at the rate he was going. The nature of the game today really reduces chances for those kinds of pitch counts. I’d like to see him get several, but Nolan Ryan era pitch counts don’t happen much any more.
I remember several times on here people would be negating someone for the leadoff position because “they had no power”. To heck with power, just hit the ball. I would want a leadoff hitter to get on base. I could care less about his power.
Now, yes, in my 3-4-5 hitters, I “would like some power”. But, given that all players make outs most of the time, I “still would rather have a hit than an out”.
Or, even Votto’s walks would be better than making an out.
I prefer OBP from the leadoff spot, no power is fine but I 100% care about it. Power plays from every position in the batting order. Obviously your slow all power and strikeout guys play a bit better lower in the order so they have guys on base.
Honestly the biggest issue with our offense has been the lack of power. I’m not complaining because its refreshing to see guys just looking for hits. The power will come.
I want a hitter not just an OBP guy at leadoff. He doesn’t have to have power, just be a good hitter.
I’m not sure that you could be a good OBP guy in MLB without being a good hitter. In fact, I’m pretty sure you couldn’t be: to have a high OBP you need to have good pitch recognition, know the strike zone, and be dangerous enough so that pitchers nibble instead of just throwing obvious strikes.
It seems safe to say that our boys have been rakin lately.
I’ve heard recently how someone is thinking that when Cruz is called up, Senzel gets moved back to the OF.
Frankly, I would be against that. I would still look to move DLC up. But, if Senzel is going to be the odd man out, just trade him already for a serviceable OF. Senzel deserves that much.
Also, then, we are still in the same boat with CES comes up. Where are you going to play him? He’s been taking most of his starts at 3rd base. “But DLC has that position”. CES has been working 1st base. “But Steer has that position”. And, we still need OFers. “DH a couple of them, platoon style, until a spot opens up”. Prospects as highly regarded as these are right now, you are going to platoon them?
I will say one thing with all of this. . .that DH will be work good for us now. Though once these players are getting called up, I don’t believe Tyler sees much of it ever again.
I agree trading Senzel helps break the logjam, though I think I’d go for pitching. Very time I see Senzel starting in the OF, I wonder if today will be the day he injures himself again.
Obviously very = every. We need edit
“Editing” and seeing “new comments” would be HUGE upgrades for this forum. I’d love to see both.
As I saw Doug say once, who’s gonna pay for it?
I’d like those things, too.
But one of them doesn’t exist for this platform that I’m aware of, and the other one would cost a lot more money to operate the site and keep it running.
But also, I will say this until I die: This is not a forum. This is not a message board. This is a website that allows comments. Calling it a forum or a message board just comes off in a way that seems to ignore the work done by the writers. I’m sure that no one actually means it that way, but it’s how it reads to me and irks me because I’m a crazy person.
I expect TS will be around as he continues to recover strength and flexibility in his shoulder. Still healing.
Agreed. We just need to be patient with TS.
Senzel is 28 years old with a lengthy injury history who has an OPS just above .700. I don’t think his trade value is what you think it is.
@Duke I Agree. I think Nick Senzel is more valuable to the Reds than he would be on the trade market.
I agree with @Duke. Senzel looks like the odd man out right now. His splits against RHP (.518 OPS as of today) will have to improve a lot for him to remain a starter. That said, his OPS against LHP is almost 1200, and he’s been good against LHP when healthy throughout his career. He is the perfect platoon partner for Fraley, who dominates RHP. Senzel also has good speed and plays multiple positions–he could fit very nicely in a bench role on a very good team.
kinda feel like Mclain is what we expected from Senzel. Actually, Senzel started his major league career ok until they tried to make him HRs.
BK I love the idea of a Fraley/Senzel platoon.
I agree, BK. Senzel and Fraley are the perfect platoon.
I dont remember seeing Senzel hit lefties this well in previous years. I’m typing this without looking up any stats however. Ive been saying for a few years all he needs to do is hit LHP and cover a few positions and he’s a nice piece for a competitive team.
Senzel IS a serviceable outfielder, AND infielder. Why trade him for just a serviceable OF when he is that and much more?
Senzel isn’t a serviceable OF when he is injured, which you can almost count on happening against.
I’m not sure there is a logjam with CES and EDLC when they come up. It is just a matter of guys who shouldn’t necessarily be playing every day moving to a bench role or cut. Play the guys that have futures with the Reds and that is it:
C- Stephenson
1B- Steer
2B- India
SS- McLain
3B- De LA Cruz
LF- Senzel
CF- Friedl
RF- Fraley
DH- Encarnacion Strand
Bench 1- Maile or Casali
Bench 2- Barrero
Bench 3- Newman
Bench 4- Hopkins or Fairchild or Myers (until trade deadline)
The logjam only really presents itself when–and if– Votto returns. In that instance, Newman should probably go, and Steer moves to a super-utility type of role.
Gotta convert one or more of these infielders to the outfield. Or pick the right one(s) to trade for pitching or outfield help. CES is DH material. He is another encarnacion. Let’s stay with it this time.
If the DH existed 10 years ago we never trade EE. Think about him hitting behind votto for 9 years and that is an offensive juggernaut. Brandon would have hit second the entire time and we probably would have been bad leadoff-wise but a 2-3-4-5 of Phillips, votto, EE, and Bruce would have been deadly. You’d have been following with Frazier/Suarez as well.
Good point about the DH. When we traded EE, we did get some guy named Scott Rolen who was a veteran team leader. We could use one of those now too.
Man, I could daydream about 9 years of watching Joey and his OBP with Encarnacion hitting behind him with all of those bombs.
Great win for redlegnation fans.
Dominate the cubbies? Check.
Dominant performance by the franchise young pitcher? Check.
Young hitters galore raking? Check.
Enjoy this one.
Old-school checklist? Check
So good!
was at the game, first 2 or 3 innings Greene struggled to get his slider over but Cubs (and their line up is not exactly the ’75 Reds) could not do much with his 99-100 mph 4 seamer. But he found his slider command in about the 4th inning, took the FB down a couple or three mph and became very unhittable. Reminded me of some vintage Luis Castillo innings. Hopefully he can continue to learn how to pitch with the elite stuff he possesses. Salazar was sinker, sinker, sinker; induced a bunch of ground balls at mostly India, but Cubs made some hard contact.
Was a tad sad that Greene even though he was over 100 pitches got pulled. I understand why they did it, but the kid had a no hitter going and was dominating Cubs hitters the previous two innings.
This Matt McLain guy seems to be a pretty good baseball player. Should the Reds keep him?
Where to play everybody. Such a problem.
Elly De La Cruz, as we alllllllll know, is on the 40 man roster, but someone has to leave the 26 man roster to make room for him
Tj Hopkins and Christian Encarnacion – Strand (CES, can I call you CES?) are not on the 40 man roster.
People on the 26 man/40 man roster that could be released, traded, outrighted.
One of those catcher guys. Curt Casali, and although he caught today and maybe that had SOMETHING to do with Hunter Greene pitching his best game (by far) of the season, is someone who everybody wants to leave because he is just not a good hitter. (???)
Jose Barrero, erstwhile pheenom short stop (who hasn’t played SS much lately) and another guy that most erstwhile Redleg Nation readers love to hate, has options left, and could go down to AAA and ply his trade there.
Kevin Newman, another guy that we all love to hate, is a backup / part time infielder. With the coming glut of infielders, is he still necessary? Could be he traded, or outrighted and someone in the ML pick up his option, who needs an infielder/SS?
Stuart Fairchild, another guy that some love to hate, is a pretty good fielding outfielder, but has been inconsistent hitting. I think that he still has an option left.
There are a couple guys on the 40 man that could also be outrighted; Will Benson and Mike Siani. If they were outrighted and exposed to waiver claims, they would be claimed, I have no doubt, although Siani right now is hitting something like 0.170 in AAA ball. Benson was a hot draft pick, and if outrighted, some team would surely grab him, regardless of how he is hitting right now.
My choices? A catcher has to go, pick one of Maile or Casali.
Kevin Newman is extraneous if we bring up ELDC. Newman is getting paid more, but who would you rather have going forward? Kevin Newman or Jose Barrero?
Both?
Two spaces on the 40 man for CES and TJ Hopkins, and three off the 26 man for EDLC, CES and TJ Hopkins.
What happens if any of the call-ups struggle? Do we just outright them in a month too?
Keep them all, its not that hard to do. CES and Hopkins are fine kept in AAA until there’s an injury opportunity. Barrero and Newman have been fine as bench players. Why are we outrighting Benson after having him only 2 months? Did you even consider how the playing time would be split, or is your goal just to get all your favorite prospects on the team while ignoring Votto maybe coming back?
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I am not for outrighting Benson off the 40 man roster, I think he is still a young man with a lot of potential to be developed. He may find himself and realize it one day soon.
And yes, I think CES is ready, and could be the daily DH in most games, and could also play some 1st base. I think he has played some 3rd base, but he would be about the 4th best 3rd basemen on the team, after Senzel, India, EDLC (if he comes up) and/or Newman.
Joey Votto may come back or may not. I think some roster moves are waiting on Joey’s progress. I expect any day, that they will announce he is starting another 20 day re-hab in AAA, so then the clock on him starts. If he is still unable to hit and field because of his shoulder strength and flexibility, then other accomodations may have to be made.
I dont understand why we’d call up a guy from the minors just to DH. I’d far rather he was getting defensive reps in AAA.
EDLC is the only prospect knocking on the door for me. Abbott is close too. I dont see a spot for CES unless there’s an injury or the Reds just split time between TS and a back-up finally. Even then, where are you playing Steer? In the OF? But you want Hopkins because he’s had a hot April/May.
I don’t see the urgency here, the only thing I dont like is the 2 back up catchers. Even then, the guy they put in that spot is going to have to fight for playing time.
Hopkins also had a good 22, just an even better 23. There is plenty of playing time for all the big boys. Don’t hold someone back for fear of a lack of opportunities.
EDLC, and CES are ready, as is Hopkins, and Abbott. Bring ‘em up, and let’s make the most of what 23 still has to offer. Myers / Casali DFA, Newman or Barrero optioned, and the last man in the pen optioned, and DFA Kuhnel.
Its so easy to just say “bring them up” but I dont think most of you are thinking about the other ramifications and dominoes that will fall if we do.
i.e. I flat out dont see how you’re gonna divide playing time properly.
And for the umpteenth time, what if they struggle and now you’ve cut loose all your depth?
@2020
I agree with you
With votto and Myers injured- lets see what Steer does and McLain does and Senzel does and gove every day reps to this emerging core of Friedl fraley steer india mcLain and stephenson and see what they do
I enjoy watching them play everyday in their role , with Fraley being the heavy side of a platoon
you mentioned roster spots, but how are you giving playing time to everyone?
and as far as roster spots, what happens to Hopkins and CES when guys come off the injured list? Do you still want to see if Senzel and/or Barrero are a part of the future? Why not wait for trades to open up spots instead of kneejerk DFAs?
Where do you play Steer?
These are responses to @MBS
I mostly play him at first base, 2020. He looks good there; his experience at third gives him a dimension some guys lack. DH is a full-time position, so it allows CES to play. If he shows that he’s as good/better than Steer, Steer DH’s and spells him at first.
I would move Steer to the outfield. He’s the third fastest of current Reds and has demonstrated his versatility. 1B wastes his athleticism in the long term.
@2020, here you go
C Stephenson 5/9 Maile 4/9
1B CES 5/9 Stephenson 3/9 Steer 1/9
2B McLain 7/9 Steer 2/9
3B Senzel 7/9 Barrero 2/9
SS EDLC 8/9 McLain 1/9
LF Fraley 5/9 Barrero 4/9
CF Friedl 8/9 Fraley 1/9
RF India 8/9 Fraley 1/9
DH Steer 4/9 CES 3/9
DH Barrero 1/9 Senzel 1/9
They would pace X amount of games over a full season if they were played like this. Also feel free to swap India and Senzel’s spots if you think it would be more doable.
CES 144, McLain 144, Senzel 144
EDLC 144, India 144, Friedl 144
Steer 126, Barrero 126, Maile 72
If we went this route it does make the 12, and 13 spot a pinch hit / defensive replacement type of role.
“Do you still want to see if Senzel and/or Barrero are a part of the future?”
You could convince me either will be, or will not be apart of the future. Below is how I’d like to see the 24 roster, and yes it does include Senzel, but it would be easy to swap him out for Barrero if things break differently.
2024
C Stephenson 5/9 Robinson 4/9
1B CES 5/9 Stephenson 3/9 Steer 1/9
2B McLain 7/9 Steer 2/9
3B Marte 7/9 Senzel 2/9
SS EDLC 8/9 McLain 1/9
LF Fraley 5/9 Senzel 4/9
CF Friedl 8/9 Fraley 1/9
RF India 8/9 Fraley 1/9
DH Steer 4/9 CES 3/9
DH Senzel 1/9 Marte 1/9
That would put the starts for the top 11 at –
CES 144, McLain 144, Marte 144
EDLC 144, India 144, Friedl 144
Steer 126, Senzel 126, Robinson 72
The last 2 spots wouldn’t be in the rotation for starts, so making them specialty guys would make sense.
Siani, as a defensive replacement / pinch runner
Free, as an emergency C / pinch hitter. (Killing it in AA as a 1B this year)
Where’s Hopkins?
And whether or not you like him, Newman isn’t going anywhere and is part of our future bench and will play
This is an idealized version of the lineup, that utilizes the least amount of players, and giving those players the most amount of AB’s. You could actually narrow it down from 11 to 10, but then it gets a bit more complicated, more moving pieces. Plus most of the players wouldn’t get a true day off, just a DH day. Sometimes it’s good to be off to rest physically and mentally.
So in this scenario, no Hopkins wouldn’t be a good fit, unless he’s replacing an injured OF. However this is not how Bell manages his roster, everyone plays. As Bell manages my last 2 spots on the roster would be Hopkins, and Reynolds.
Most everyone’s playing time from above gets slightly cut, but again that’s how Bell manages his roster, and since he’s the manager, Hopkins and Reynolds would get playing time.
I don’t dislike any of the players, but they are in a competitive job. Newman is a fine reserve, but the “future” part is unlikely. That is unless you mean next week, or month. Next year isn’t a certainty, and an extension beyond that seem even less likely.
“I would move Steer to the outfield. He’s the third fastest of current Reds and has demonstrated his versatility. 1B wastes his athleticism in the long term.”
I agree.
Joel Kuhnel on the 40 man is redicilous. Give CES the spot .
You got to factor Votto into that 26-man as well. Just wish they would pay him off and let him retire gracefully. Even if he can hit.280 he isn’t part of the future. Either that or activate him in September, have a Votto, day to sell some tickets, and wish him their best.
Wish Cassali would start hitting because a contender will need a catcher at some point and he could get a moderate prospect. If there is going to be three catchers Chuckie might be a better choice for a rebuilding team at this point.
Why are you so concern with the 40-man roster – We have access to them anytime we want them -they are not on the 40 roster because of the Rule 5 rule. They have the time to stay there without risk of being drafted. Once they hit the 40 that is gone and this fall if they don’t come up we might lose a couple other nice prospects because of it. They will find a way to get them major this year if that is their plan.
I was at the game…. Practically shivering in the shade with the cold wind, blowing it off the lake.. Barrero and McClain both had no doubt home runs knocked down by that cold wind. This lineup may not have a ton of pop at the moment, but the first five can really keep the line moving. Stephenson looks to be emerging from his funk. Saw McClain make a throw from the 5 1/2 hole that gave me confidence he has the arm to play shortstop if the team chooses to keep them there. Five of the six outs recorded by Salazar were on the ground…. his body type and delivery. Give me Tom ‘flash’ Gordan vibes.
Probably the most complete all-around game of the year. The Cubs seem to be in a bit of a funk, so hopefully the Reds can take advantage.
I believe Senzel India and Steer should keep playing. Let them build trade value. The prospects in Louisville are fine This offseason go get a couple of pitchers. Shouldn’t need a Myers Pham or a Minors type of player
India/steer aren’t going anywhere
Nor should they. Trade for what? Look around the league. Fifty fifty shot that your trade/free agent works out as you wanted. Stick with what we have. Period.
Watching the video of Hunter Greene’s strikeouts, his fastball looked to have a lot more movement today. It has looked very straight for much of this season. That makes a huge difference. Good to see him mixing in some more changeups today too.
Camera angles can make pitches seem like they are moving more/less than they are. The Hawkeye data has his fastball moving nearly identically to what it has averaged all season.
Good point and good to know. Thank you Doug.
Good observation there. I was very impressed with the movement as well. For whatever reason the Cubs were no match for it and I don’t recall any 101s, 102s being given out very often.
Wonder if those camera angles affect the pitch locator as well? It is perceived that the umps are getting worse, which is certainly possible, but there must be some serious problems with the robo umps as well. They are only being used selectively in AA?
I’m still boycotting watching the games until we call up at least one of the deserving players in AAA. Did Greene use his changeup much today or was he just effectively spotting his fastball and slider? He was obviously doing something right. Rooting for the young man to consistently deal like he did today. Our DH numbers have been horrible this year. Not sure why people are concerned about a defensive position for CES, He should obviously be our everyday DH. Does anyone remember Edgar Martinez? This team needs power desperately.
And you’re not counting McClain?
Just what I was thinking.
The Reds need to shift gears and take advantage of the DH position. It will cut down on close game losses.
McClain doesnt count as deserving?
@doug
Obviously EDLC is now blowing up like McLain
1.) IS AAA pitching bad and is 6 game schedule depleting AAA pitching rosters?
2.) name your top reds 5 prospects since 2013 of the last decade
De La Cruz with two hits again tonight including a HR.
CES with TWO walks which is a big deal
Interesting Lopez killing the ball lately with power. Another HR tonight.
I always root for Lopez, but the tools he had last year won’t play at mlb in todays game. He has poor defense at most infield positions, zero power, and doesn’t walk. I would love to learn he made an adjustment that added some power to his game. He could be a valuable piece if he added to his game.
He’s been hitting with much power lately with good average. In my view he’s not as bad defensively as people say. He’s adequate as a super sub at many positions.
De La Cruz is making his case with every game–it is only a matter of time before he’s up with the Reds.
And Melvin, you’re right, the two walks by CES is the best news of the night. He’ll be a great power hitter with improved plate discipline.
The power that these two will bring is exactly what the Reds need. I think Stephenson will improve as the year goes on, too.
Apparently, ELDC and CES appreciated my encouragement as they just went back-to-back!
Hopkins with a big night also going 4 for 6 with 5 RBI’s also. Raising his gaudy BA to .346, and a 1.013 OPS.
What influence you have! 🙂 BRING THEM UP!
If I had any influence, I would call up ELDC tomorrow. I think he’s ready. CES needs to show a little more of the same as what he did tonight (i.e., walk). Krall has to be giddy about Steer, McLain, Friedl, ELDC, Abbott, Marte, and CES–all have exceeded even very optimistic expectations. Add to that Hopkins and Chuckie Robinson, a healthy and improving Nick Senzel and I would say the position player side of the rebuild appears well ahead of schedule.
@MBS, I think Hopkins would have been called up today if he were on the 40-man roster. He and Robinson really seem to have made significant improvement since last season. I suppose if you want to pick at Hopkins, his K-rate is slightly higher than you would like, and he’s probably best suited as a corner OF. That said, it’s really hard to find something not to like about his performance this season. I bet a lot of teams are kicking themselves for not drafting him in the Rule 5.
I am not saying this team can make the playoffs, but on May 27 the will be 51/2 out of the division and 4 out of the wild card. They owe it to the fans to at least make the summer interesting. Bring up EDLC, CES and maybe Hopkins and Abbott just to see what might happen. I think for now send Benson and one of the catchers down. I would keep Casseli and Green’s performance today shows why. I would think about Barrero, but right now keep Newman, great utility guy.
I agree and I think you will see a lot of callous around the all star break. This isn’t the year to go for it as in World Series contender (not nearly enough starting pitching) but it is the year to get everyone’s feet wet and sort out the positions at the mlb level. What a fun team this is and going to be even better.
Casali – much superior catcher to Stephenson. I don’t care if he can’t hit – 90% of catchers hit .220 or below.
Newman- gives a professional at bat and veteran leadership. I’ve watched several games where he played and I do not get the hate for him. He has exceeded my expectations for a utility/bench player.
It’s not that anyone hates Newman. He is a Cincinnati Red so I, and presumably others here who feel the same, root hard for him to play really well. But even when he does play well, he’s taking playing time from Jose Barrero and others. And Barrero has a much higher ceiling than Newman, is younger and less expensive, and has the potential to contribute far more, for far longer, than Kevin Newman. But if Barrero doesn’t get those at bats he may not realize his full potential – he hasn’t so far – so Bell is holding back Barrero whenever he chooses Newman for more playing time. There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with Kevin Newman other than he’s a below average major leaguer. But since Bell’s use of Newman may be keeping Barrero from developing into a young, team controlled and inexpensive above average player, I wish Kevin Newman was not on the current roster. That’s all.
Lately Barrero has played center when Newman starts and it seems likely that the Reds view him as a candidate for that job. He’ll need to hit better, though, and he does seem to be improving recently. But who else is Newman taking playing time from? If EDLC succeeds as we all hope he will, and if he plays shortstop, then McClain moves to 2nd or 3rd, but not to utility infielder, so the Reds will still need one. Maybe that, instead of center, becomes Barrero’s job and in that case–again assuming that he continues to improve–then Newman is expendable. Or maybe Senzel becomes the utility guy. My point, after all of this rambling, is that there are still things we don’t know that would determine expendibility.
@GMR
Im generally pleased with movement forward of this roster franchise and I like Newman as a bench player
To answer your question directly… Newman is taking playing tome from TJ Friedl- the top Reds player in positional WAR. Senzel goes to the OF and Newman takes 3b
Friedl career splits-albeit small – are better against lefties. That said- I think EDLC will play SS/3b 70/30 in 2 months and Newmans days are numbered.
Didn’t Senzel DH at least once? With Friedl, the sample size is small, but I bet he starts getting more at-bats against lefties. Why? Because Larkin said he’d like to see that in the same broadcast during which he said he’d like to see India bat 3rd. At some point Newman will probably be superfluous, but right now he does offer a reasonable infield option when someone needs a day off or handedness splits are an issue.
We agree
I like the direction of the roster and franchise
Its not out of the question Reds pass cards and cubs with a hot streak but they tend to head south everytime they start narrowing the gap under .500 within 4-5 games
They do seem to, Old-school. Let’s hope that they aren’t afraid of success.
I hate to say ot, but the pitchers have a much lower ERA when pitching to Maile and Casali instead of Stephenson. I was always in the keep Stephenson at catcher camp, but it’s becoming obvious something is up with the pitchers when he catches
That means Stephenson is just going to have to improve because CES is going to need the DH. Not to mention they need to rest other regulars with the DH as well.
Catching ERAs prior to today’s game:
1. Casali, 3.38 (3.48 career)
2. Stephenson, 5.51 (4.56 career)
3. Maile, 5.89 (4.28 career)
The staff has been better when pitching to Casali, but it’s hard to put their current 27th-place ERA (4.90, MLB average is 4.19) on Stephenson’s back. When you look at the performances of our staff Cessa, Overton, and Stoudt are big-time outliers. Lodolo, Cruz, and more recently Ashcraft have underperformed as well.
Casali’s catching ERA is almost a full run under the major league average and 2 full runs below Stephenson and you don’t find that significant? Greene’s ERA is also more than 2 runs better pitching to Casali. That’s a big deal. And more than makes up for Casali’s lack of offense. I’d rather Greene turn into a no-hit machine than have Stephenson catch. He can play 1st and DH.
Luke, you stated that Maile and Casali have better catching ERAs than Stephenson. Only Casali does. Several times over the last week, I have pointed out how much better Casali’s catching ERA is than Maile and Stephenson. That is why Casali remains on the team even though he is not hitting at all. Yes, it’s important, but nobody catches every day.
That said, Stephenson will continue to catch for the Reds and DH when he doesn’t. Both he and Maile are a full run above their career averages and should correct back closer to their career norms. At this point of the season, that happens when you catch just a few games where the pitcher can’t get anyone out. I don’t buy the argument that we have convincing evidence at this point that Stephenson is hurting our pitchers.
Luke J, I thought they said on the broadcast that this was the first game Casali caught for Greene? Did I mis-understand something?
I’m glad someone has brought this up @BK. It’s hard to look at only this season – too small a sample- but to me it’s clear that casali and maile call a better game than Stephenson. Casali is going to make a great manager one day.
The 3 catcher thing is tough to understand but I think it works when your young catcher is clearly offense- first. Stephenson is going to have to improve his defense or pick up a left fielders glove because he isn’t very good at first base either. I’m not sure I’d even extend him.
“I don’t buy the argument that we have convincing evidence at this point that Stephenson is hurting our pitchers.”
+100
It’s time. I eventually want McClain to play 2nd but it doesn’t look like they have any plans to start working India into the outfield this year. I also think that EDLC would be better used as an outfielder but I think the Reds FO want a superstar shortstop to be the face of the team.
Best lineup ASAP
1. India 2nd
2. Friedl Cf
3. McClain LF
4. EDLC SS
5. CES DH
6. Fraley RF
7. Steer 1st
8. Stevenson C
9. Senzel 3rd
Hopefully, switch India and McClain next year.
I can see EDLC in the outfield. Reminds me of Eric Davis. Power, speed, arm. Wonder if he could make the transition?
I wonder if McClain can transition into McLain
I agree that EDLC in center is intriguing and relieves the infield log jam. But I’d think that if the Reds were going to do that, they’d–very reasonably–want him to learn the new position in AAA, which would delay his MLB debut. Would we be able to stand that?
I personally think this is a terrible idea when he’s clearly the best all around SS on the team. Why did we waste years of development time just to move him to a different position?
I understand your point, 2020. My question would be whether any of the other shortstop prospects could transition to outfield. Some could be traded, I suppose, but if they prove as talented as they seem, we might be shooting ourselves in the foot. EDLC seems unusually well-equipped for center with his speed, arm and height. My guess is that he remains at short.
Matt McLain has plenty of experience in the outfield from his time in college. He’s also long been considered a fringy defensive shortstop who most scouts thought should move back to center or to second base.
While it is truly early in his career, McLain is outperforming the scouting reports at SS.
I’d momentarily forgotten that McClain had played a fair amount of center, Doug. That would leave second open for India.
I agree sar edlctv is built for right field with his cannon arm and speed he might be great defensively
Yankees did ok with a superstar center fielder named Mantle as the face of the franchise. EDLC has all the tools to be a great center fielder, plus the position is not as physically demanding during the game as is SS.
Willie Mays for the Giants wasn’t bad either.
I disagree with the notion that CF isnt as physically demanding, its negligible at best.
Usually fewer plays for the centerfielder, I think, but some of those can require sprinting.
EDLC – SS
McLain – 2b, rarely CF
India – 3b, occasionally 2b, 1b
Senzel – 3b, occasional OF
Steer – 1b, 3b
Also spread them out in DH spots.
Keep them at preferred and original defensive positions – 5 players for 4 in the lineup gets everyone 500+ PAs; sort again next season after determining who fits best where and relative production.
Let CES and Marte further force the issue.
Someone may have to go to the OF, but there will likely be injuries or flops, let alone trades, before that is necessary.
If EDLC goes to the outfield who plays SS long term? He’s better defensively right now than McLain and Marte…..and Barrero is not going to be the long term SS. And most likely, EDLC improves defensively at SS even more with time.
He needs to be the SS unless someone superior defensively hits enough to be worthy of moving him.
They are probably not going to switch players around to new positions this year but next year I’d like to see something like this.
India DH
Friedl LF
McLain 2B
De La Cruz CF
CES 1B
Steer RF
Marte 3B
Stephenson C
Barrero SS
Fraley
Senzel
Fairchild
Casali
Hopkins
Of course the DH would vary.
I think it was last month that I read on here that someone in India’s camp said he can’t wait to become a FA. My sister lives in South Florida, where India grew up, and it’s like a completely different country then the Midwest. My prediction is they end up moving India for pitching at some point and maybe that’s not a bad thing
I honestly could see that happening even though I am a huge India fan. Gotta give up something good to get something good in return.
Trading season could be interesting, got to make room for all the top prospects in AAA. Why not grab some great pitching, maybe in a package deal. Can never have too much pitching!
Great pitching? Where and from whom? If you look at both leagues, ALL the teams need pitching, and most have more money to spend than the Reds. Believe I heard yesterday that the majority of players on the IL this year league wide are pitchers. We need to keep the core of this team and it starts with India.
Hey IRM. Interesting post. Would love to see that article. Did it mention the reason? Was it related to just money or does he have a desire to leave the Reds?
I think it would be a mistake to trade India. Every team needs a leader. India seems to be developing into a leader. I love his energy and toughness. But I agree that his future with the Reds is probably not in the infield. I think our position player roster will be very strong next year. The Front office just needs to invest in some pitching help.
Ever since the Reds started this latest rebuild, I’ve felt India was p.o.ed. Making me think he was ready to move on. I like him alot and wish he would stay, but… We still have a couple years to see how many of our prospects pan out, then see what we can get for India. I certainly wouldn’t trade him until we find out how are prospects pan out.
They need to quietly inquire as to extension and move to corner OF. If he’s not game then move him to the trading block. I target him over Senzel for a few reasons.
Most important: He’s guaranteed trading value for an elite pitching prospect. Reds do need to restock.
He’s a Boras client. Senzel doesn’t bring same value and has proven positional flexibility.
Moving Maile should be realistic for a low level prospect with how he’s played this season.
We have a real surplus of talented middle infield prospects. Using some to fill needs is a must. Hope management makes the right choices.
Senzel’s splits are awful when you look at him against right handed pitching. They have always been that way too except for 2020 and it’s small sample. Senzel should platoon with Fraley which makes that lineup spot pretty stout. I too think India is going to take off at free agency. Might make sense to deal him while he has value. I am a big fan of his style of play. I still think Barrero is too young to give up on just yet. I might park him in left field and let him play consistently. Concepcion hit .205 and .210 his first two years in the big leagues. And he was always chasing curve balls low and away too.
Think EDLC should come up soon. CES probably needs a bit more time to work on plate discipline. It’s good for Louisville to see a winning team for once as well. Marte is getting close to moving up to AAA as well.
For now I’d make Senzel/Fraley a pure platoon, play Friedl every day and then use Barrero and Fairchild to fill out the OF. Dump Myers and Newman.
Wasn’t Myers an All-Star about 3-4 years ago? I can’t believe he’s this bad?
I’d give him 2 more weeks and then cut him loose if he’s still lost.
My boy Stewie Fairchild is hitting .288 (19-66) since April 29 with 9 doubles. I think he’d get more attention if he got more loft on some of those doubles. As the fastest Red, he’s just scratched the surface on steals too. If Myers doesn’t get it going then play’em every day
Myers has always been kind of a busy. He was a top 5 prospect and the 2012
BA minor league player of the year. He had a couple of seasons with good power numbers back when the ball was juicier, but has never really had a full season of all star level play. Fangraphs has him at about 2.1 WAR/162 games for his career.
Believe McClain is faster.
The only “awards” BBRef lists for Myers are NL RoY in 2013; All Star 2016; and 16th in NL MVP in 2020 (COVID short season). They also say that with his guaranteed earnings or this season, he goes well above $90m in career earnings.
IMO the Reds brought Myers on board to possibly cover for Votto at 1B, take over at 3B if the younger options weren’t ready, or play RF as a fallback.
Regardless of where Myers played, he ultimately would be flipped at the deadline to open a spot for up comers in the final third of the season in the process saving a third of his annual salary cost.
Unfortunately for this plan, he has been made superfluous at every turn by the rising young guys inside of two months. Now we shall see how the Reds decide to play it out.
@Jimbo, Statcast has McLain and Fairchild tied at 29.1 feet/sec.
Really like this team and hope ownership realizes the possibilities with all the prospects. The kids play hard and compete everyday they take the field. I enjoy watching them grow.
While we all debate lineups and strategy one thing that is not debatable to be is the level of effort this team gives.
It’s not too difficult to see the possibility, in a few years, of a Reds team comparable to the BRM of the 1970’s.
If Barrero has so much future why waste him on the bench or platoon him in the outfield. Send him down to learn the outfield and maybe become a major league hitter. Although some individual on here said minor league hitting doesn’t translate to the major leagues. Except McClain!!!!!!!
McLain so far is hitting well. Just wait for his first extended slump.
I don’t disagree with this idea in theory, but the eye test suggests that Barrero is already doing fine in CF. He’s fast, gets a good jump, and makes good decisions with his throw behind a strong arm. I’ll have to check his defensive ratings to see if they confirm that impression. It’s the hitting part that gets interesting. Before he broke his hamate bone he was a very strong hitter in AAA and the Reds top prospect. But since being hurt he’s not excelled at the plate. Some of that was undoubtedly due to the injury and recovery, and some seems clearly to be plate discipline / pitch selection. The question is where is the best place for him to figure that out? At AAA, or in the big leagues? I’m not sure I know the answer, but his ceiling is so high I really hope the Reds find a place for him to get the at bats he needs to realize his potential. And maybe that is at Louisville – if so I’m okay with that. I’m just not okay giving up on him since he is showing improved pitch selection and gradually hitting better. Too much upside to bail on. Free Jose!
Jim t. I agree these young players are fun to watch. It just irritates me to no end that they are slow rolling the process. Waiting to bring up EDLC and CES just doesn’t make any sense. Play your best players. If young players struggle, you send them down and work on deficiencies that were exposed in the Bigs. If they can’t make adjustments they are never going to be MLB winners anyway. I am afraid that management might be playing the silly Super 2 game. Let’s go. We need something to get excited about.
@Soto yes it can be frustrating but there is a lot that goes into this process.
1 you have a roster your trying to manage. A 26 and 40. Also as you pointed out team control is an issue.
2. Some players will be used in trades.
3. Getting players ample playing time while still in the hunt for division and wild card is also an issue.
I’m sure there are many others.it’s not nearly as easy as some want to make it out to be. There are a lot of nice pieces in this organization, finding the right fit is key to the team’s success now and going forward.
With all that said I am enjoying watching it unfold.
@Soto yes it can be frustrating but there is a lot that goes into this process.
1 you have a roster your trying to manage. A 26 and 40. Also as you pointed out team control is an issue.
2. Some players will be used in trades.
3. Getting players ample playing time while still in the hunt for division and wild card is also an issue.
I’m sure there are many others.it’s not nearly as easy as some want to make it out to be. There are a lot of nice pieces in this organization, finding the right fit is key to the team’s success now and going forward.
With all that said I am enjoying watching it unfold.
Yes finally it’s fun to be a Red’s fan again. Everyone on the comment section has the answers but I guess that’s what it’s all about. I agree it’s a fine line between staying relevant, keeping a possible playoff hope intact and replacing the status quo with the future. But my opinion is, yes me too, that the emphasis should be on bringing up the future. Maybe not all at once but eventually.
Agree Jim
I am as impatient as the next Reds fan but watching India get back healthy, Steer hit well and play every day, McLain playing well and friedl/ Fraley playing well is very fun . Diaz on the back end is fun as well.
Im willing to watch things play out
I have said this on a different thread, but with new pitch com stuff, why don’t we let the game get called from the dugout? That would eliminate Stephenson or any other variance from who calls a better game and eliminate the need for three catchers.
Let Casali call the pitches from the bench. As a Reds coach and future manager?
To me it will all come down to this off-season. Is Bob Castellini willing to spend money to improve the pitching staff? If he is, then this is going to be a fun team to watch over the next several years.
If Castellini is not willing to spend money on pitching, then well, the offense will be fun to watch, but don’t see this team competing.
With the Reds extending Greene and the Moose/Votto’s contracts coming off the booksi have some hope. But, this is still Bob Castellini we are talking about, so I think the jury is still out
There is that worry, Votto. I take the extension for Greene as a good sign, but it could also have been intended to defuse some negative publicity about how cheap ownership is. If they don’t get more pitching and, probably, also try to extend Ashcraft and Lodolo, we’ll have a definitive clue.
Also, Greene is now a cost-controlled asset which can be traded to a contender for maximum return. But is that just me being cynical about ownership?
Sad but good point. I hope the cynicism proves unjustified.
Hey V4L , agreed 100% said as much many times on this site.
Jim T and BR you make some good points and I realize that there is a lot that goes into making roster decisions… But, as a dedicated fan of almost 50 years I can never remember a situation quite like this year. You’ve got an exciting young team with half of the roster being young players that are playing very well with a lot of energy and a couple of veterans that have shown no signs of life. Blatant weaknesses like starting rotation issues and a complete lack of power have obvious possible fixes in the minors from players who really have done everything that you can possibly do in the minors to show that they are ready for a shot. There are never any guarantees with prospects. EDLC, CES, Hopkins, and Abbott could all fail miserably and be forced to be sent back down, but this is the time to find out. I say to anyone that says CES hasn’t shown enough in AAA yet, did you watch him in spring training? Have you looked at his numbers at every level? Have you watched his balance and approach at the plate? Have you seen his mammoth power? I think too many fans and front office types buy into the hype of overly focusing on the long view. In the modern game guys get injured often, things change rapidly. I say you play your best players and try to win every game that you can. Every game counts the same. Professional sports only exist to make money. You make money when you make wise personnel decisions that create an entertaining product that fans want to see. Strategizing for some hypothetical moment in the future is a waste of energy. Put the most entertaining product on the field that you can. Get people excited to tune in every night and to come to the park a few times a year. Everything else is just overthinking it.
As Doug wrote last night in the recap, CES has SO’d 37 times and BB only 5, so there are still some things for him to work on.
..but he walked twice last night. 🙂
Which apparently got him to 5. SO less, BB more, come to Cincinnati. Otherwise keep practicing
Yeah. He almost doubled it in one game. 🙂 I understand your point. He does have an OBP of .382 though.
Line up is out and it is a solid one.