Hunter Greene rebounded well after leaving his last start early when he was hit by a grounder in the leg, firing six innings of 1-run baseball. But the Cincinnati Reds offense couldn’t get much of anything going on Sunday as they lost 2-0 to the Pittsburgh Pirates, who completed a 4-game sweep of their divisional counterparts.
|Cincinnati Reds (7-15)||0||4||0|
|Pittsburgh Pirates (16-7)||2||6||0|
|W: Velasquez (3-2) L: Greene (0-1) SV: Bednar (8)|
|Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread|
Ke’Bryan Hayes took the first pitch from Hunter Greene of the game and doubled off of the wall in center. A bloop single moved Hayes over to third base and then he’d score when Andrew McCutchen grounded into a double play, giving the Pirates a 1-0 lead.
Vince Velasquez cruised througgh the first two innings, but ran into some 1-out trouble of his own doing in the 3rd when he walked Jose Barrero and Luke Maile to put two men on. The pitching coach made a trip to the mound and whatever he said seemed to work as Velasquez got out of the inning with a fly out and a ground out while holding onto the 1-0 lead.
The Reds would pick up their first hit when Wil Myers lined a single into left field with two outs in the top of the 4th inning. Nothing came from it and the game moved to the bottom of the 4th. Hunter Greene had to work around a 1-out walk, but did so as he continued to cruise after giving up a run in the 1st. Unfortunately for Cincinnati, so did Vince Velasquez who retired the side in order in the top of the 5th.
Hunter Greene had to work around a 1-out single by Andrew McCutchen in the 6th inning, but he was able to get a fly out and a pop up to strand him. That would be the final inning he’d throw, giving up just one run with six strikeouts and two walks on the day.
Vince Velasquez threw a perfect 7th inning and picked up two more strikeouts, giving him 10 on the day. It was just the 6th time in the career of the 31-year-old he reached double digit strikeouts. Three of those came in 2016 and the last time was in May of 2018. He had pitched in 121 games since that game, mostly as a starter, before today’s 10-strikeout game.
Reiver Sanmartin took over for Greene to start the 7th and walked the first two hitters he faced. That resulted in a visit from pitching coach Derek Johnson. Sanmartin rebounded with a 3-pitch strikeout of Ji Hwan Bae. Another mound visit ensued, but this time it was manager David Bell heading out there and he called on Fernando Cruz to enter the game to face Jason Delay. Cruz got out of the inning, stranding both runners by striking out Ke’Bryan Hayes for the final out of the frame.
The Reds finally got a runner in scoring position in the top of the 8th inning when Tyler Stephenson came off of the bench and hit a 1-out double off of the wall in right field. Nick Senzel replaced him on the bases as a pinch runner. That turned the lineup over, but Jonathan India struck out and TJ Friedl grounded out to end the inning and keep Cincinnati scoreless.
Fernando Cruz returned for the bottom of the 8th inning. He retired the first two hitters of the inning, but a check swing infield single by Carlos Santana and then a stolen base – just the third for Santana since 2020 began – led to a run when Jack Suwinski doubled to make it 2-0. A strikeout would end the inning, but the damage had been done.
Holding what seemed like an insurmountable lead of 2-0, David Bednar entered to try and close out the game. He would strike out Spencer Steer and then he got Jake Fraley to pop up. But Wil Myers wasn’t ready to go home just yet and singled into right field to bring the tying run to the plate in Stuart Fairchild. It wasn’t meant to be as Fairchild struck out on three pitches as the Pirates completed a 4-game sweep of the Reds with a 2-0 victory.
Key Moment of the Game
Jack Suwinski’s RBI double in the bottom of the 8th inning that put the Pirates up 2-0.
Notes Worth Noting
Tyler Stephenson’s double in the 8th inning was the first extra-base hit by the Reds since the 4th inning on Thursday.
The Reds were swept by the Pirates in Pittsburgh in a 4-game series for the first time since April of 2019.
The loss was the 6th in a row for Cincinnati.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Texas Rangers vs Cincinnati Reds
Monday April 24th, 6:40pm ET
Nathan Eovaldi (2-2, 5.40 ERA) vs Nick Lodolo (2-1, 4.98 ERA)
Turning point – taking the double play and letting the run score in the 1st? Not pulling the infield in? Has it come to that?
Hope you are being sarcastic. Pull the infield closer in the 8th inning forward, never the first
I am, but alas, that was the turning point. I’m old enough to remember the age of the pitcher, and when a stealing a base was a very common strategy. This game was a bad variation of both.
Considering we didn’t score a run today that’s a good point. The problem is you have to at least score one run to win.
Something HAS to change before the game tomorrow. Either a multiplayer roster shakeup or firing David Bell and the hitting coach. Getting swept in four games is bad enough, but getting swept by last year’s fellow cellar-dwellers is completely unacceptable.
Bell is doing exactly what he was brought in to do. LOSE! When the Reds start getting serious about winning (not this season) Bell will be long gone. Until then, enjoy the few victories the players can muster over a very anemic coaching staff.
On pace for 52 wins now. Not looking good. Changes need to be made. At least try.
Greene pitched well.
the house is on fire and reds management is sitting in the kitchen having dinner…what’s the problem
We’re probably just overreacting. Aren’t we silly? 🙂
There is possible help that could be used:
McLain with a hit and three walks today .284 /.429/.567
Robinson 4 hits today .447 /.500/.638
Ramos 2 hits today with a HR .314/.400/.486
Even CES had two hits today his first day back.
From what Doug writes Cruz is hitting the ball hard but very little to show for it so far.
Benavides assisant bench coach (oops didn’t mean to put that in there) 😉
Ramos in – senzel down
McClain in – Newman DFA
CES in – Vosler DFA
Robinson in – Meile DFA
Anderson in – Cesa to Pen / Law DFA
Bell Fired – Corky manager (or Mesorraco or insert former reds catcher here)
India – LF
Friedl – CF
Steer – 3b
Barrero – SS
Myers – RF
Ramos – DH
There fixed it Krall…
Make it happen
Well, not a 3-22 start, but getting closer. The offensive is in critical condition, having Senzel, Vosler and Maile in the lineup does not help much.
In all fairness neither does India, Friedl, Fraley, Stephenson, Steer, or Fairchild at the moment. Oh and Myers.
I wonder whether this team really could hit at AAA … It is pathetic right now
come on Myers is on a hot streak he had two hits today, haha….
There is no way David Bell should be the manager of this team in 2024, now would be a good time to make that statement.
Positives: we didn’t lose by 1 run again
Negatives: everything else
Unless I’m wrong, Reds now lead the MLB in K’s.
So, hitting slumps that couldn’t afford to happen has happend. Being shut out 4 games out of what 8?
Let’s be honest that isn’t on Bell, however he deserves criticism for his micromanagement. Or whatever he does. Good news though pitching did well this series. Barrero hit well..
That’s all I got lol
The hitting slump isn’t on bell.. it should read
Yeah, it’s a puzzler. Why has the hitting just gone so cold?
Can you really blame Bell for that? He doesn’t get official at bats.
It’s the nature of the job, regardless. Rarely does the GM become the fall guy. But this manager has organizational connections so, imo, change at this point is unlikely.
At some point, we just have to admit the offense isn’t any good.
Greene and the bullpen pitched well.
Myers had two hits.
Fraley didn’t strike out.
Every starter not named Fraley struck out at least once.
Steer earned the Golden Sombrero.
Reds didn’t have a single runner advance past second base.
I won’t complain about a bad day for Steer. Guy has been pretty consistent so far.
Unfortunately, this is just a bad baseball team.
Now that the streak of consecutive innings without holding a lead has reached 54, it seems like a perfect time for the organization to make no moves whatsoever. Similarly, it’s good time for Bell to keep managing the same ways he’s always managed, because there’s no reason for him to question any of his methods. In sports, whenever things are going really badly, history has shown that complacency is the best approach. Most teams improve by just hoping things get better eventually.
Sounds like a winning approach!
Next three against a very good Texas team. Then finally three pillow fights against an Oakland team that may actually be worse than the Reds.
I would consider this Reds season a huge success, even if they lost 90/100 games this year, if they do one thing…..fire their pathetic manager
I don’t think it matters that much except that Bell seems to be reluctant to play the younger guys. End of April and Reds are pretty much out of the running. So get the young guys, the future, and let them get experience. If Bell can’t do that then fire his butt and get someone at the wheel that will.
All those coaches we fired last October must feel pretty smug.
The Refuse the Win Attitude kicked in quicker then I thought. The Jason Vosler era begins. If Barrero can’t, at minimum, have a killer glove, then- wtf with that dude? I know the cheap Reds dream of being able to keep McClain and De La Cruz down in the minors all year but attendance might get down to 3800 a game by then. Until they start getting some hits, I will only track the box score. They are completely unwatchable.
My feeling exactly. I’ve left MLB.com for now, and have switched to CBS Sports. At least I can check the box score in passing and do something else with my time to avoid getting depressed.
Reds 4th worst in the MLB at 7-15 with the season. Fangraphs has the Reds at a 0.3% chance of making the playoffs. That means change is needed. You cant fix things if you wont admit things are broken. Things are definitely broken.
Before changing things…a few realities.
1.) Reds arent DFA’ing guys or trading guys or sending guys to the minors who are making big money. Wil Myers, Nick Senzel, and Kevin newman are on the roster for the intermediate term.
2.) No SP or everyday player is coming up from AAA nor should they. Matt McLain is not taking Newman or Senzels spot in april.
Here’s what Krall needs to do tomorrow:
1.) Fire Bell( not happening)
2.) DFA Vosler. He’s on the roster to give a lefty bat against righties. It’s not working. How far have the Reds fallen from 2021 when they had 2 of the top 5 lefty hitters against righties in baseball-Votto and Winker. It’s a lot to ask a mostly all righty lineup to mash against power righty pitchers. Friedl has been good, Fraley started great and now slumping. He did this last year and was a different hitter post AS break. Vosler is awful. Votto is out awhile and when/if he returns it’s going to be a retirement salute. Free agent shopping cart this off-season? Big lefty bat.
3.) DFA a catcher-probably Maile. Three catcher thing wasnt an awful idea with the catching/injury situation in 2022. It’s not working and time to adjust. Make Stephenson a 70% catcher and Casali a 30% catcher. ( If someone makes a compelling argument Maile is better than casali, ok)
4.) Move Myers to first base mostly and go with an OF of Fraley/Friedl/Fairchild with Senzel filling in.
5.) Play Barrero 5 days a week at SS and Friedl 5 days a week in CF. Use the DH and 1 rest day to let Senzel and Newman Fill in the gaps.
DFA-ing Vosler and Maile improves catching, infield, outfield and DH and align roster with resources and the future.
“Wil Myers, Nick Senzel, and Kevin newman are on the roster for the intermediate term.”
That doesn’t have to be. They got rid of Moose they can get rid of them. Like I said, hard decisions have to be made.
They JUST added two of those guys, and one of them has JUST returned from a long-term injury. They aren’t going to drop any of them for the foreseeable future, and right now would be the absolute worst time to try to trade Myers or Senzel. I mean, it’s fine to fantasize about things this organization COULD do to make itself better (they could probably trade for a few all-stars of they’re willing to give up some big-name prospects and pay $100+ million in salaries), but we know in real-life lthey aren’t dropping three guys who were just added to the roster and are being paid major league salaries.
spoken with wisdom and a level head
Yeah well I know how these owners are too. Like I said, HARD decisions. The likelihood may not be great but it’s either things like that happening or the likelihood of being 20 games back, or worse, buried by June. The start may not be as bad so far but the middle and end can be much worse than last year’s disaster. Sooner or later even these owners have to get embarrassed and do something….like doing what’s necessary to try to win….and it won’t cost them anything more. If the guys talked about previously aren’t helping with that then it’s a small price to pay in making the sacrifice of letting them go or somehow trading them if feasible.
Honestly, I don’t categorize those as hard decisions. That is penny ante money. Hard decisions are what are you going to do to improve this team in 2023. Are you going to continue to let the Pirates and Cubs push you around with no plan to make this a better team than 2022? Krall has said this is unacceptable and 98% of us fans happen to agree. Well right now he has Unacceptable PartTwo. He can’t honestly tell fans this is going to get better in the 2H. Personally I think we are compromising the future (2029) more by not bringing up near ready talent now and by signing some old guys to one year contracts. Heck we spent $10M on Mike Minor. $23M on Moose. $25M on Votto. If he really wants to improve his unacceptable product, then spend Some money on 1 year contracts. Or bring up the nearly ready guys. Don’t just keep running the same old AAA lifers out there. It didn’t work last year and it won’t or this year. Fans are getting very frustrated and attendance is going to evaporate. Patience would be a total lie with the current roster.
“2.) No SP or everyday player is coming up from AAA nor should they. Matt McLain is not taking Newman or Senzels spot in april.”
Sorry, Don’t agree with that. McLain can play somewhere and there are a variety of players who can be replaced on the roster. Robinson can take Maile’s place. That’s just to start. Williamson could very well be coming up soon too.
After today, Williamson is not coming to Cincy any time soon.
PTBNL – “After today, Williamson is not coming to Cincy any time soon.”
Yeah. I didn’t realize he had such a bad game today. Definitely set himself back. I keep on watching Abbott. He’s starting to get people excited with his pitching.
Quit making sense!!
I agree with #2, the second #2, #3, #4. DFA Maile, and Vosler, bring up Ramos, and Reynolds. I wasn’t partial to DFA’ing Vosler at 1st, but he just doesn’t look good. Ramos gives us back a guy who can hit from the left, and Reynolds has a hot bat, and position flexibility.
If I’m GM, Farmer is also done. DFA him, and bring Legumina back up.
DIaz, Sims, and Young are the 3 HL guys
Gibaut, Sanmartin, 2 ML guys
Law, LL guy
Legumina long man
Stretch out Herget, and let him join Overton (when healthy), Williamson, Stoudt in the AAA rotation, and most importantly, bring up Abbott to AAA to see how he does there. Then Cross our fingers, and hope that Weaver, and Cessa can bridge the gap between now, and when a legitimate candidate is ready to be promoted from the minors.
Forgot Cruz in the LL guy postion.
@OldSchool, exactly right. Firing Bell alone would shake up this lackluster team. I wish I didn’t agree with your first point, but alas I think you’re exactly right
Is it too early to ask who are some of the best prospects in the 2024 draft?
Doesn’t matter. With the Reds luck, they’ll probably end up with the tenth pick this time in the draft lottery.
We can dare to dream for even a glimmer of hope. That’s about all we go now.
I think they did amazing last year with the 18th pick.
India going 3-0 just to strike out looking with the tying run on 2nd and 1 out may have been just as key of a play as any in this game
Just not good.
Oh, Viking helmet, where art thou?
The helmet has been missing since the shock of the blowout loss to the Phillies, then the Rays and now the sweep at the Burgh.
The Reds are tanking and they aren’t going to do anything in April to improve the team.
Why would they fire a manager that is a company man who agreed to participate in the tank? He is a company man and will do anything their owners and GM want him to do. You have to assume all playing time decisions are done at organizational level now. I am sure Bell has a seat at the table, but this is no longer a manager gets to control what happens in the dugout league.
At least this ownership group and the front office has a great track record of success to point to…
Newman – .200
Fairchild – .200
Fraley – .197
Maile – .176
Vosler – .161
Senzel – .152
Nearly half the roster is hitting at the Mendoza Line or lower. Myers was dangerously close to joining them before his 2 hits today raised his average to a stellar .218.
I know these are still based on relatively small sample sizes, but boy does it look ugly.
My advice would be to change the channel.
Probably the best advice for all of us ….
Told my wife after Saturday’s loss that I am about ready to switch back to watching Blue Jays games again this season. At least they have an exciting team that competes every night against every team.
DH Ramos 5 of 9 / Stephenson 1 of 9 / Fraley 3 of 9
C Stephenson 5 of 9 / Casali 4 of 9
1B Myers 7 of 9 / Stephenson 2 of 9
2B India 8 of 9 / Reynolds 1 of 9
3B Steer 8 of 9 / Reynolds 1 0f 9
SS Barrero 7 of 9 / Newman 2 of 9
RF Fairchild 8 of 9 / Ramos 1 of 9
CF Friedl 8 of 9 / Senzel 1 of 9
LF Fraley 5 of 9 / Senzel 4 of 9
Need some mystery injuries to Benson, Myers, maile And vosler. Bring up the young guns. That’d be a great start.
Benson is already at AAA
Is there anyone on here (not related to David Bell) that is willing to say that Bell is a good manager? The poor play is not all on him…players have to perform and they are not. And it is not just about wins and losses, as this is not a winning team. And every team goes through cold streaks during the long season. But the product we are seeing is dreadful and too often noncompetitive. And I agree with others on here that the performance and culture of this team are a reflection of the manager. Bell’s shortcomings as a manager are obvious and are obviously hurting the development of this team. I would include the following:
1) strategy dominated by an obsession with righties vs lefties and lefties vs righties
2) obsession with starting mediocre (at best) journeyman veteran utility bench type players
3) hair trigger on pulling starting pitchers
4) choosing the wrong bullpen arm for the situation (though admittedly has not been so bad as of late)
5) low energy style
6) inconsistent lineups
7) constant position changes
8) just lack of consistency all around
9) lack of development of younger guys
And I’m tired of players being babied. What happened to the good old days of players playing 150+ games a season and some guys playing all 162? What happened to consistent lineups and positions, where players had a certain role on the team to work on excelling at? What happened to starters being able to go well over 100 pitches consistently? Baseball used to be somewhat of a tough guys sport. Not so much anymore. I would love to see an old-school tough manager brought in asap to LEAD this rebuilding project.
I am with your thinking, I believe. You can’t blame Bell for losing with this team. I don’t know if he’s good or bad, but what’s happening is not his fault. Essentially, he has a team of mostly Class AAAA players and is being ripped a new one for not winning with them. Not fair if you ask me.
He also had a team of quality players, and failed miserably while wilting down the stretch. All the players he manages seem to underperform, no matter how good they were before he got here.
Young guys with promise also seem to regress.
So basically, he’s done bad with talented veterans, a mixture of veterans and youngsters, and now just the youngsters .
He hit the trifecta.
Those days are over and like everything else things evolve and more data etc. Right or wrong it is what it is. A “tough” manager in my opinion doesn’t work like it use too.
Kevin, I agree with you that being a “tough guy” manager probably doesn’t work today. I actually am not sure that it ever worked. I suggest managers like Billy Martin and Leo Durocher won championships, despite of and not due to, being first class jerks. Very few people like working for a manager like that and it’s not limited to just baseball players.
Having said that though, I think Bell’s approach isn’t working either. While most players (and people) don’t like being yelled out, they absolutely don’t like losing. The
players may like David Bell as a person, but I think it’s clear to them, that they are not going to be successful as a team, as long as, David Bell Is manager
This is a terrible team, regardless of who the manager is. However, I agree that Bell is FAR from getting the most out of his players, which is essentially a MLB manager’s primary task.
Guys, my quick thoughts: This is a terrible team of position players. We got a little excited by some encouraging spring training performances and then a quick regular season start. About half of the pitching staff is guys you want to keep around for the long run, which is more than you can say about the position players. Like you, I’ve been watching hitters look at pitches clearly in the strike zone for strike three, and I just don’t get it. Plus, players who have a history of performing much better are in the pits currently, and there is not enough talent to compensate for that. That being said, I am absolutely not in favor of standing pat. Doing that tells everyone — the fans, the players, the coaches, etc. — that what is happening is acceptable. I can’t tell you how Matt McLain is doing, but if he’s lighting it up at Louisville, I don’t know what the downside of bringing him up and giving him a look is. What if he hits terribly and strike out a lot? I don’t want to watch anyone do that, but I’d much rather it be a top prospect gaining experience than a veteran retread like Myers or Vosler or Maile. Others disagree with that, perhaps because it doesn’t align with whatever the plan is for the advancement of the top prospects. We’re all frustrated, and some of us are wondering how much good pitching the front office will waste until trying to fix the lineup. Best to all of you.
“That being said, I am absolutely not in favor of standing pat. Doing that tells everyone — the fans, the players, the coaches, etc. — that what is happening is acceptable. I can’t tell you how Matt McLain is doing, but if he’s lighting it up at Louisville, I don’t know what the downside of bringing him up and giving him a look is. What if he hits terribly and strike out a lot? I don’t want to watch anyone do that, but I’d much rather it be a top prospect gaining experience than a veteran retread like Myers or Vosler or Maile.”
That Tom Mitsoff is a wise man. 🙂 I might add Senzel to that list at this point.
Bring up Matt McLain and in a couple weeks CES. There is literally no reason to be excited about the Reds future right now….
There’s reason to be excited about the future, but it’s the distant future. Currently it would be a coin-flip to decide who would win between Oakland and Cincinnati.
It wont be a coin flip. We find out next week.
Road trip to Oakland and San Diego. Hitters dont usually get better in Oakland. Reds generally flail on the West Coast trips.
I think the flailing has already commenced.
I see the Reds losing all three to the Texas Rangers.
More likely decent pitching for the Reds, which will not be enough.
A left hander against them Tuesday night, probably will shut them out. They may score 3 runs for the three games.
De LA Cruz is struggling so far. Let’s hope he doesn’t get benched.
The sad thing is every top 5-6 Red’s prospect is struggling now outside of McLain
Doug said Cruz is hitting the ball hard but no results yet. CES had two hits today his first game back.
*De La Cruz*
That’s correct. We already have another Cruz who has a lot of nerve having the same last name. 🙂 I’ll try to remember De La Cruz or EDLC.
The team looks dead like it did last year for a while. No energy, just going thru the motions. Say Goodbye to Bell, Vosler, Myers and Newman. Bring up the kids. Cannot be any worse.
Amazing, 4 straight games and no offense. And against the pirates. I know they’re improved but come on! I’m no David bell fan but hard to blame the manager when the players barely hit. Terrible series for the offense.
So call me crazy but let’s go all in. Yes, I realize it’s not this easy,however here we go. Designate Newman, Volser, and Maile. Bring up McClain, Cruz, and CES. I know Cruz is still finding his MOJO, however he can do no worse than what we now have.
Cruz and Barrero platoon, CES and Myers platoon, and McClain well I don’t know.
It can’t get worse than what Reds have now.
Kevin, love your stuff but do you mind referring to EDLC as “de La Cruz”? Every time you say Cruz, I think you are referring to Fernando Cruz the pitcher.
Yes, sorry about that lol
As an “Old” Reds fan I am trying to recall a season where the Pirates swept the Reds in a 4-game series. Even back during the Pirates most successful seasons (1971 &1979), I don’t recall these very good Pirates teams sweeping the Reds in any series, either at home or on the road.
This recent series sweep is hopefully the low point of the 2023 season! I am perplexed as to what the “Fix” may be but it’s time to right the ship by any means necessary!
Oh, I think the Reds can go lower. They will lose to the Oakland A’s.
The Oakland A’s are arguably a worse team than the Reds…..on paper.
This team has quit on themselves. And I don’t know why.
I am not a manager-basher in general. But these guys are not producing for Bell, who looks defeated. They simply have to make a change. I don’t really know who would be a logical hire, but I would take somebody out of the organization.
And while they are at it, they should cut bait with Vosler and Maile and option Fairchild. Let’s see what McLain, TJ Hopkins and somebody else can do. EDLC and CES should be ready within a few weeks, because once they get their swings back, there is no point in their playing AAA games.
The Reds aren’t very good, but they are better than this, especially with the Big 3 starters.
Nice post OBE …, as usual
Change needs to happen as usual
I would not mind seeing Benavides given a shot as Interim Manager
“The Reds aren’t very good, but they are better than this, especially with the Big 3 starters.”
Maybe we need a visit from Bill Parcells to remind us that a team is what its record says it is.
If the on field performance seems to be less than the sum of the parts in terms of player talent. Then it is up to the GM to change the manager.
If the GM isn’t up to doing their job, it is up to the higher manager to change the GM.
If the higher management won’t change the management chain, then the team becomes the Reds.
after last season’s start, the thought was: the Reds won’t be good this year (2022) and probably not next year (2023) but in 2024 can contend for a Wild Card spot….does anyone see this team competing for a playoff spot next year? Not with most of the players on this roster now, so kick the hopes father down the road….meanwhile, I look at MLB.com rankings of the top 10 starters in majors right now & I see 2 of the 10 (Castillo & Gray) former Reds….oh what could have been if not for constant incompetent management. Always the same: top notch players for the reds, ship them out for “prospects” …..never build around them. A constant rebuild over and over and over. Reds fans grow tired of it
You forgot Wade Miley….
3 1 1.96
Miley No. 9. But yes, I agree … and empathize…
Yes I literally just saw Castillo and Grey’s stats today too. Could you imagine our rotation being.
That would have been a sick rotation. Sick meaning Great for you old timers out there.
Ownership doesn’t want to compete. It wants to make money. As long as they can pay themselves hefty salaries, they’re cool with losing.
The few remaining fans are more invested in the outcome of the games than the Castellinis are. You care more than they care. It sucks.
That’s why I’ve beccome a sort of reverse-fan of the team. When I saw today’s score, I laughed. (That’s the normal reaction to buffonery: laughter!) I can’t quite find it in myself to jump ship and start following another team. (Besides, I can’t stand all the rule changes.) But watching the disintegration of a once-promising team is a bit of a spectator sport in and of itself.
What once promising team are you referring to?
Their absolute ceiling was the 8th seed in an expanded playoff system.
You need to aim higher.
Once you figure out your best shot isn’t even close, you tear it down and start over.
You’re the 1st person of over a million, that doesn’t like the new rules?
Curious, what about the new rules that you don’t like?
I loathe the DH. It takes some of the strategy out of the game and makes it less interesting. I grew up as an A.L. fan on the East Coast, but have spent the last twenty years in Reds Country and grown to love the old NL rules. To me it doesn’t even feel like real baseball.
I’m less frustrated by the extra inning rules, but they’re still annoying.
That’s fair. Several people share your opinion.
I thought you were referring to the rules instituted this year.
I was in favor of the DH, mainly because watching pitchers try to hit was boring…most of them couldn’t put down a bunt when required.
They can barely still healthy as a pitcher, then more injuries happened while batting and running the bases.
I can’t understand why ANYONE would have a problem with Barrero.. Young fella finally healthy and learning everyday what it is to be in the bigs..
I don’t particularly want to get into a big fight, but I’m tired of seeing the circular argument “it doesn’t matter who the manager is, this team is terrible.” It’s true the team isn’t loaded with proven all-stars, but there are guys on this roster that we KNOW are capable of hitting major league pitching, because we’ve seen it with our very own eyes and/or they’ve been able to perform with other teams. So, until guys actually start hitting the way they’re capable of hitting, it’s impossible to know how bad (or good) this team actually is. If (as I believe) Bell is at least partially responsible for some of the bad habits these guys have gotten themselves into, then we can’t really say how bad (or good) the team is until we see them operate under NEW LEADERSHIP. If you’ve got a car that isn’t running very well, and your mechanic says it’s obvious the car needs a new part that isn’t very expensive and can affect how all the other parts are functioning, the smart thing to do isn’t to say “well, the car runs badly, so there’s no point in replacing that part.” It’s possible the car still won’t work very well after you’ve replaced it, but you can’t really know what kind of car you’ve got until you get that repair done. I, for one, am curious to see what some of these guys could do under a manager who actually has high standards and expectations, and is even willing to try a hit-and-run once in a while and/or tell someone to take a pitch.
Hit & Run is a foreign term to Bell!
Hard to hit and run if you can’t hit…or get on base.
Bell’s actions in interviews and tone are just boring and he consistently is making excuses on why players are not executing. He smiles and laughs when he takes out starting pitchers who are performing perfectly well. The matchup thing drives me nuts.
You just stuck out the side, but it’s the 3rd time through the order I have to take you out now. aka David Bell
It is so hard to watch him pinch run for one of your best hitters when you’re only losing by one run. Just so many examples that just drive me insane.
It’s called protecting your players in public. Dusty Baker used to do the same thing here and he’s done it everywhere he’s been and he’s got more wins than just about any modern manager. How a guy deals with things in public (to the media) and how he deals with things when he’s discussing things with a player when there’s not a camera or mic in his face can be two different things.
Brewers lost today so that puts the Pirates officially in first place leaving us 8 1/2 games back after 22 games.
I think the bottom line is this, and very simple, regardless of talent, how many teams in baseball would still have Bell as their manager after the job he has done? I think we all know the answer to that question and that number is zero. The Reds are doing an injustice to their fans, the players and in some strange way the man David Bell himself. He looks like a miserable human being and after this experience will most likely never be given another managerial opportunity. The Reds need to let him go after the Texas series and hire an experienced no nonsense man for the rest of the season and go from there.
Why wait until after the Texas series! I am curious to see what the real attendance numbers will be for each game during this brief 3 game homestand! Let me guess, the Cincy press and the Reds FO will explain the low attendance on the series being during the week with kids still in school, blah, blah blah!
The reason I would wait is the off day on Thursday and if they were serious about it letting the new manager open with a series against Oakland and Greene and Lodolo pitching 2 of the 3 might give him a chance for a nice start. But we all know 3 straight losses to Texas in front of crowds of 5k will not matter.
I think there’s approximately a 0% chance they’ll be firing Bell anytime soon, and approximately a 100% chance that if they somehow manage to realize he should be fired, Benavides will be named the interim manager. This is the Reds we’re talking about. They aren’t about to go make some big bold move the way most of us would.
I just want change in the managers office. Benavides has been a Reds coach for a long time and he deserves a chance at least as an interim manager. Barry Larkin was one of my all-time favorite Reds, but HOF players rarely, if ever, are successful managers, especially with a young struggling team. The Reds do not need another company guy as manager. I don’t regard Benavides as a company guy.
I agree with J. Bell is here until Big Bob decides he isn’t. I don’t believe Nick Krall has the authority to hire and fire. It seemed like Dick Williams had a much freer hand, probably because he was groomed by Jocketty, but those “all-in” moves he made with Moustakis, Miley, and Castellanos, then Covid, doomed him. Big Bob is not a gambling man. His experiment with forward thinking cost him dearly and Krall’s mission is now bean counting and staying in the black. No way they eat anyone’s contract.
When do we play the Colorado or Oakland? Need some W’s.
The way this Reds team is currently hitting I’m not confident they can beat anybody right now and that includes Oakland or Colorado!
No argument there.
Oakland fans are saying….Chill out, we got the Reds on the schedule soon.”
Will the few Oakland fans really care their team is playing the Reds with the franchise soon leaving for Vegas, the A’s fourth location.
I’m a fan of the Reds. I don’t care what city they play in.
I am not related to Bell. Bell has two winning seasons with the Reds. The Reds get rid of several of his best players. Leave him with a rebuild team. No manager could have a winning record with the team from the last two years. The answer is in the rebuild and spending on the right players. I do not think Bell has earned a contract extension, but just do not think he makes much of a difference right now. It makes no sense at all to me that firing Bell is the answer to the Reds problems. I just do not see the logic.
I agree that any manager would be losing in this situation. The problem is more of the culture that has been created, the lack of development, and the complete inconsistency of everything Bell does. To me, he has always been unimpressive with his lineups, pulling starters too early, mismanaging his bullpen, and being obsessed with lefty-righty matchups. Plus, he lacks energy most of the time, but then out of nowhere flies off the handle at the most unexpected times. I just don’t see anything impressive about him. Even when we were winning under him, it felt like we were underachieving.
Ultimately, the blame lands on management. In my opinion, the future looks bright with the young talent, but I don’t believe Bell is the man to lead during the rebuild or after.
*That was supposed to say, “Ultimately, the blame lands on ownership.”
Have you already forgot the Bell under achieved when they had good players? He was the captain of the ship which failed miserably, and thus drove the team into a rebuild.
William – Bells record as Reds manager, If I’m correct, is 258 & 312. More importantly we lost 100 games last year. More important than that is the fact that we’re off to a terrible start this year with no light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. When situations like this happen, no matter whether you’re one of the people that thinks David Bell is a good manager or the opposite, a change needs to be made. If for no other reason than just to change the atmosphere. Sometimes it kind of wakes players up. The team seems lifeless right now and it’s still only April. If Krall is any kind of a GM at all he has to start shaking things up and making moves. Changing managers is just one of many that need to be made.
Exactly, it has reached that point. The team has taken on Bell’s personality, and that’s not good for a professional sports franchise. A change has to be made just to shake things up. Period.
Not being sarcastic or a jerk, just curious, do you watch the games? Like 90+% of them?
Also his two winning seasons, one was covid and the other was a collapse that resulted in missing the playoffs and starting the rebuild.
He is not the only at fault person. But he is one of the many many problems.
Let’s be real. What other team does Senzel, Fairchild and Barrero play for? If Bell is fired what other team hires him as manager? Between Bryan Price and David Bell the fans have suffered through bad baseball for a long time.
During Spring Training the team started stealing bases. When the regular season began all of that dried up. Why?
I would be in favor of hiring Barry Larkin.
Never hire someone you can’t fire. The Reds made that mistake with David Bell. Can you imagine how hard it would be for Bob Castellini to fire Barry Larkin??
Besides, after the past couple of seasons listening to Larkin’s commentary, I don’t want him anywhere near to the manager’s office.
Last year, Barry Larkin actually suggested that the Red’s sign Kyle Farmer to an extension that would make him a Red for life!!
In addition, Larkin is a company man, who will always parrot the Castellinis.
Barry Larkin has never managed a baseball team. Why would you want someone who has never done the job to manage the Reds?
Most of the time when the Reds hire an inexperienced manager they fail. When they bring in experienced managers from outside the organization they do much better. For example, Lou Pinella, Davey Johnson and Dusty Baker.
I am a big Larkin fan (hence the name.). I want him nowhere near managing this team.
If they want to hire a completely inexperienced former player, I’d much prefer Brantley based on what I’ve heard from both of those guys on the air. Brantley seems to have more good insights, and seems much more willing to say “there’s a right way to to do things and a wrong way, and you’re doing things the wrong way.” Larkin doesn’t say anything that makes me confident he’d be better than Bell other than the fact that almost anyone would have to be better than Bell.
If we are hiring an announcer former player, I go with Brantley. He would hold the players accountable. I would be ok with Freddie Benavides a shot too.
No on Larkin for the reason J. pointed out.
Brantley over Larkin for sure.
I’d go a different route and say Mark Derosa, who coahed Team USA in the WBC. He is a communicator with a great personality. He was really impressive on MLB network when he broke down why batters succeeded or failed.
Reds are 1-7 in one run games and have lost 6 straight. So either they are very unlucky or Bell is not making good strategic decisions in these games. I have posted before I believe it is time to bring the young guys up and let them play. I would guess the reason you would not want to do that is because you want them playing every day in the minors. So there is the rub. You bring up our promising young talent does Bell keep them on the bench in favor of the retreads, the vets he is playing now that are not getting the job done? Or does he let them play? That would be my primary argument for firing him. This is a lost season so we are preparing for next year. Don’t play guys that are not part of the future over guys that may be. If you can’t do that then goodbye. But who knows what the Reds philosophy and goals are right now.
part of me wants to “bring up the young guys” but it is a risk. What if they are no better than the guys we have now? (which is a distinct possibility) Then what do we do?
yes the reds suck but I just think baseball has a much larger problem. right now there are 6 teams on pace to lose 100 games. last year 4 teams lost 100 games and I think that was a record. just seems like there are not enough good position players to go around for 30 teams and I do think the problem will get worse. I was driving around the outskirts of cincy over the weekend. plenty of soccer being played. didn’t see any baseball being played. Just seems like kids are not playing baseball anymore and maybe it is finally catching up to the big leagues? i know the league is trying to expand but that just does seem logical to me at all. maybe from a financial standpoint it does but not from a quality of play standpoint
I saw Joel Luckhaupt tweet something like Hunter Greene has allowed two earned runs in three starts in Pittsburgh and the Reds have lost all three of his starts there. That seems like it should be impossible.
Hunter and Art Warren threw a no hitter last year in Pittsburgh and the Reds still found a way to lose.
At this point, the Reds can either do nothing (keep David Bell) or they can do something (fire him).
At least by doing *something* you show the fans you’re *trying* to change.
A team full of all-stars doesn’t need the league’s best manager. The Reds are not a team full of all-stars, so…
Firing Bell won’t matter for this season. Any interim Manager is rarely the answer. Let Bell ride it out this year then re-evaluate in September. Unfortunately, it’s going to be a long season of futility. Thus, focus on small victories such as Green’s performance yesterday.
People often write that the manager does not matter. That’s like saying anyone can be my boss and I’ll achieve the same quality & enjoyment out of work. A manager exudes trust, mentorship, leadership, drives accountability & deals with personalities. A young team needs a different type of manager than a team of savvy veterans. The groundwork is being laid now for the next competitive window – the manager matters.
“the manager matters”
I don’t understand this tendency not to bring up near ready prospects. Gosh don’t we have to begin to find out what we have after the trades of Geno, Nick, Wink, Farm, Luis, Tyler, Wade, etc. Steer has been up, Stoudt has been up, Luminella has been up, Fairchild has been up, Barerro, Friedl, Lopez, Kuhnel, San Martin, etc. I don’t think any of us have been impressed. All of the salary dumping has nearly been completed and will be completed by the end of this year.obviously 2024 will be the year when we will have money and an identity on most of the prospects. But we don’t have a clue on how this is all going to mesh. Who is penciled in as our #4 and #5? Are you confident that they will do the job? Who are the 2-3 guys that are going to bang 25-30 homers each? I have no doubt we have a a good number of capable major league prospects. I have a lot of doubt that some of these guys we have hyped are no better than utility/bench players. Based on Krall’s post 2022 comments, I fully expected 2023 to be a year of progress and fact finding with a platform to 2024. Are you kidding me. What have we learned and improved since 2022?