Less than two hours after the Cincinnati Reds traded Kyle Farmer to the Minnesota Twins the team turned around and acquired another utility infielder to replace him as they picked up Kevin Newman from the Pittsburgh Pirates according to Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic. Rob Biertempfel of The Athletic reports that the Reds are sending reliever Dauri Moreta back to Pittsburgh to complete the deal.

The 29-year-old Newman has played in the big leagues in parts of the last five seasons – all for the Pirates. In 2018 he managed just 97 plate appearances and a .478 OPS. The next year he broke out and hit .308/.353/.446 in 531 plate appearances. Since then things have been rough for the infielder. In 2020 and 2021 he posted an OPS of .556 and .574. In 2022 he improved a bit, hitting .274/.316/.372 with two home runs in 309 plate appearances. After striking out just 41 times in 554 plate appearances in 2021 he struck out 48 times last season in nearly 254 fewer trips to the dish.

A solid defender who can play shortstop, second, or third base, Kevin Newman can cover several spots on the field for you. There are big questions about whether or not he can hit, though. For his career he’s posted a 79 OPS+. He’s hit for a solid average twice, but never shown any sort of power and only in 2019 did he show any sort of idea that he could make a pitcher worry about throwing him a strike.

MLB Trade Rumors projected Kevin Newman to make $2.8M in arbitration for next season. That’s less than half of what Kyle Farmer was set to make. Farmer, though, is a better hitter than Newman has been for his career. Newman is entering his second year of arbitration and won’t be a free agent until after the 2024 season.

What this means for the Reds at shortstop heading into spring training isn’t quite known. Kyle Farmer saw most of the action at the position in 2022, but Jose Barrero saw more action at the spot in the second half. Farmer is gone and Barrero flat out didn’t hit at any point in 2022 – whether we’re talking about the minors or the majors. While he did deal with a broken hamate early in the year that led to him missing spring training and the start of the season, he never got anything going once he did get on the field and has plenty of questions he has to answer. The same thing can be said of Newman who doesn’t exactly project to hit enough to start.

On the farm the Reds shortstop position is the strongest it may have ever been. With that said, none of the top prospects have played a single game at Triple-A, with Elly De La Cruz playing half a season in Double-A, Matt McLain playing a full year there, and everyone else being lower than the Double-A level.

As for Dauri Moreta, it will be interesting to see what happens with him moving forward. He struggled in the first couple of weeks of the 2022 season and was sent to Triple-A Louisville. After he returned on June 19th he threw 24.2 innings with a 2.92 ERA, a WHIP of 1.17, a .601 OPS against, and allowed runs in just three of his 20 appearances.

158 Responses

  1. redsvol

    For all the new metrics followers out there……Kevin Newman registered a 1.1 WAR in 2022, while Kyle Farmer registered a 1.0 WAR. Much better defensive infielder. I remember Krall specifically stating he was not happy with our defense last year.

    Reply
    • Hotto4Votto

      Except for the fact that Farmer rated better at SS last season than Newman. 0 DRS vs -2 DRS respectively.

      Reply
      • Alex Reds

        Newman played mostly 2B last season, and Newman led the majors in fielding percentage at 2B. Kevin Newman led all of MLB in fielding percentage in both 2021 (at SS) and 2022 (at 2B) for the position he played the most. That’s incredible. Newman is a better defender than Farmer, he also has higher WAR and higher OPS+.

      • Hotto4Votto

        My point is he’s not better defensively, let alone “much better”. He wasn’t last season, he hasn’t been for his career at SS, where he’s-9 DRS vs Farmer’s +4 DRS. People keep saying Newman is a better defender. The stats say he’s not. I’m pushing back against false narratives.

    • Dale

      The total and complete suckage called the Reds ownership group. Sell the team Bob!

      Reply
    • Tar Heel Red

      Perhaps you have been watching Alfred E. Newman? Kevin Newman is NOT a better defensive shortstop than Farmer. His career fielding percentage as a shortstop is .976…Farmer’s is .984. All the “so-called” defensive ratings for Newman are negative numbers…all of Farmer’s are positive. Farmer’s range is slightly better than Newman’s and his throwing are is much stronger. Newman tends to heave the ball to first base rather than throw it.
      Let’s stop all these baseless claims and recognize why these two trades were made, with one thing in mind…cost savings, plain and simple (although I must confess I still don’t understand the trade with the Pirates). I’m happy for Kyle Farmer that he gets to escape the maddening incompetence that is the Cincinnati Reds and move on to a team dedicated to sanity and winning.

      Reply
      • Alex Reds

        Kevin Newman led all of MLB in fielding percentage in both 2021 (SS) and 2022 (2B) for the position he played the most. That’s incredible. Newman is a better defender than Farmer, he also has higher WAR and higher OPS+.

  2. LDS

    Farmer/Moreta for Legumina/Newman is at best a wash in terms of moving forward. It says $2-3 million but doesn’t really materially improve the roster, if at all. And it certainly doesn’t address the gargantuan holes in the BP, SP, and OF.

    Reply
    • Bdh

      Adds a few more million $ to help spend on those holes you mentioned

      I just want to know why Reynolds is still on the reds now. Even before adding newman he should’ve been behind Lopez so why does he still occupy a 40 man spot

      Reply
      • LDS

        Couldn’t agree more. Of course, the same could be said of much of the 40, like Moose and Senzel. Moose was a big expense, so he stays. Senzel, a wasted number #1 pick, who had a -1.3 WAR last year and whose career HR output is only one more than Aquino in Aug/Sep 2019. In fact, his career OPS+ is 12 points lower than Aquino and only one point higher last year. And he’s less durable and a power defender. A team can’t build around either. The Reds admitted that with Aquino. They are still in denial about Senzel.

      • Votto4life

        The problem BDH is the Reds won’t reinvest the money back in the team.

        How much money did the Reds save by trading or not resigning Iglesias, Gray, Barnhart, Miley, Winker, Suarez, Castellanos, Castillo and Mahle ? How much of that savings has been re-invested in the team?

      • 2020ball

        Why would you release Reynolds before you have to? Just to make the whiny part of the fanbase all warm inside?

    • 2020ball

      So everything stays the same, yet they save money. So….youre saying they came out ahead? Not heard that from you much. How you think they were going to address their gargantuan holes by trading Farmer and Moreta requires some serious explanation.

      Reply
  3. Melvin

    With the way they’re going I don’t understand why they would pay this guy $2.8M.

    Reply
    • Alex Reds

      Waste of almost $2M+ and a cheap move. Reds could have just selected an infielder in the rule 5 draft then that was good at defense. Jose Barrero has defensive upside and I think will put up better hitting numbers than Newman in MLB in 2022. I will mention that Newman hits lefties well, with a .404 OBP vs LHP in 2022. That’s the only role that fits, but even the Pirates could only get Newman 104 plate appearances vs lefties.

      Reply
      • jon

        Sorry but to count on Barrero to hit better is a real stretch.

      • Tar Heel Red

        Could not disagree with you more. Barrero has had 298 plate appearances in the majors and still cannot recognize a breaking ball. And his defense, which was supposed to be his calling card, has been average at best. IMO his ship has sailed and the team knows it, hence the addition of Kevin Newman, who was brought in only as a cheaper version of Kyle Farmer and will be used to keep the position warm until De La Cruz or McLain is ready.

    • Redsvol

      On a team full of defensive misfits, it might be nice to have someone who can play average defense. Price of an MLB veteran that can play defense at multiple positions is always going to be above league minimum. Infield defense was atrocious last year.

      Every team needs a couple utility players on its bench. The price of veteran utility players typically hovers around $3-$4 million, unless its someone who has been non-tendered.

      Reply
      • Melvin

        It’s not chump change the way the Reds do business.

      • 2020ball

        meh, its still chump change. Let Bob and Philly cry poor all they want, doesn’t make it true. I think the investment group is holding the team back more than anything.

  4. Hanawi

    Don’t like this one at all. I thought Moreta still had some upside. He pitched well for the most part but had a few rough outings that really ballooned his ERA. Seems like they could have just picked up a cheap guy in free agent instead.

    Reply
    • Earmbrister

      Moreta wasn’t a good fit for the Reds. Extreme fly ball pitcher with a propensity of giving up homers.

      Reply
      • BK

        Agree, I liked Moreta, but his profile is not a good fit for GABP.

    • Tomn

      Agree. Moreta pitched pretty good in the latter half of the year. At the very least he could have been a middle to late inning reliever. Dont see how Newman does anything for the Reds. Much prefer seeing them give Barrera more time and maybe Cruz will be ready by July. Steer is also available and could use playing time. Also prefer Reynolds to Newman. Seems like somebody in the front office was bored and needed something to do.

      Reply
      • Tomn

        Now let me take my rose-cored glasses and get back to Saturday fb.

    • RedBB

      Disagree. Good move. I still can’t figure out how Farmer is estimated to make $6M this year and Newman only $3M.

      Reply
    • Michael E

      These two trades are giant nothing-burgers. not sure why anyone is getting worked up over four replacement level or worse players. They saved a few million. None of these players move any teams needles.

      My ONLY concern is Bell will start Newman 120+ games, robbing growth/experience time for some AAA player. I get the years of control, but the longer we wait to get some of these prospects into the fire, the longer it will take them to develop.

      Reply
    • MuddyCleats

      Exactly! Reds need the BP arm more than another utility INF.

      Reply
  5. Optimist

    Neither of these moves will have much effect this year, and perhaps none going forward. Seems like it sets up a Newman/Reynolds competition for one spot, perhaps with Lopez still hanging on somehow. Put a marker down in 2026 to see how the Legumina/Moreta comparison looks. Almost looking like we’ll see a whole bunch of the better prospects move thru AA/AAA very quickly and start getting MLB looks as early as June this year. Wonder if all the holdovers basically get 300 more plate appearances to show something or else they get moved.

    Reply
  6. BK

    Newman is insurance for Barrero. He gives us what Farmer did for $3M less—slight tradeoff of defense for offense. Newman is almost four years younger, so perhaps more at his peak than Farmer.

    This opens a spot for Steer in the infield. Maybe Senzel gets a chance to move back to the infield, too.

    Reply
    • Michael E

      Don’t rule out EDLC or McClain getting lots of starts at SS. IF the Castellini’s are lining team payroll up to sell (we can only hope) then they won’t much care about service time.

      If EDLC or McClain start off hot in AA or AAA, they may be up for good in June.

      Reply
      • Muddycleats

        IMO, EDLC is the Reds future CF. Closest thing to Eric Davis n a long time! Watched him several times n Chattanooga where he played great SS too. However, when hurried, I noticed his throwing motion gets a little long & off the mark. Reds need a stud n a vacant OF & he’d b my first choice. Move might improve his hitting too?

  7. Frankie Tomatoes

    Kevin Newman hit 2 home runs last year in half of a season. He is not a slight trade off of offense for defense.

    Reply
    • Frankie Tomatoes

      This was supposed to be a reply to BK above.

      Reply
    • BK

      Frankie, thanks for pointing this out. As I dug a little deeper, it’s actually more of a slight tradeoff of defense for offense. Based on their 2022 results, Newman is a slightly better hitter and all-around player earning about the same WAR as Farmer with a little over half the plate appearances:

      – Farmer, 1.0 bWAR, 1.4 fWAR, 91 wRC+, and 90 OPS+ in 583 PA
      – Newman, 1.1 bWAR, 1.3 fWAR, 94 wRC+, and 94OPS+ in 309 PA

      They are remarkably similar players from a production standpoint. Newman is a good bit younger and is projected to cost half of what Farmer will cost this season. Both have the same amount of team control remaining.

      I get moves like this are not huge difference-makers. I also get the Reds were awful last year and will likely be awful this year. The small glimmer of light I see in their current situation is they seem to be executing a coherent plan. Together the two moves brought in a younger, slightly better infielder to bridge the gap until our top prospects are ready while saving $3M. The cost was the difference in Moreta (-0.4 fWAR in 2022) and Legumina (#s improved when he transitioned to relieving at AA).

      Reply
  8. Frankie Tomatoes

    Did Cincinnati get a worse utility player and make the bullpen worse today? That’s tough to do when you were already one of the worst teams in baseball.

    Reply
    • Michael E

      Not really. We weren’t good anyway. We aren’t competing in 2023 and all of us, even the most optimistic, know this already. In fact, knowing we aren’t trying to compete, I’d just as soon have a bad team in 2023, get another shot at top 3 pick in 2024.

      Ownership just needs to wait out the Votto and Moose deals. Then we’re all holding our collective breaths to see if the Castellini’s will actually give the GM a full green light to sign some above average $$$ FAs and make some trades to become immediately competitive without gutting what is left of the farm in 2024. I think we’re all so jaded that we could easily see Castellini keeping payroll at $40 million in 2024. Hopefully the media will rake them over the coals over and over if they DO pull such a sad stunt.

      Reply
  9. Bdh

    Duarte and Cerda coming back on minor league deals according to Bobby nightingale. That’s great news that they didn’t lose either and opened up the 40 man spots

    Reply
    • Jim Walker

      If the return of Cerda and Duarte materializes, Krall will have pulled off a good maneuver to get them off his 40 man roster, thus opening 2 spots, without exposing them to waivers yet retaining their talents in the organization (presuming neither gets picked in the Rule 5 draft).

      He also got something for K.Farmer who they would have otherwise nontendered; and, harkening back to last year got something for Barnhart while saving the option buyout money the Reds would have otherwise paid to avoid Barnhart’s $7.5m 2022 salary.

      But then Krall turns around and moves Moreta for Newman much like he followed his disbursement deals last year with odd acquisitions.

      I don’t feel very assured that there is a plan for the Reds future or the skills to apply it if it does exist

      Reply
      • Tar Heel Red

        I agree Jim. I get why (at least from the Reds point of view) they traded Farmer. I don’t agree with it, but that is water under the bridge. But then to turn around and acquire a lesser player both offensively and defensively, especially when the team had ample temporary options is strange to say the least. The claim the Newman is the same player than Farmer at half the price is ludicrous in my mind.

        I have followed the Reds for over 50 years and I must say that trading all the veterans just to save money has soured my view of the team to the point where I simply just do not care anymore.

      • Michael E

        yeah, have to agree with you as well. I do not get them adding replacement level player with no upside. Why not just have AAA flunkies man spots for another season at league minimum? Do the Castellini’s (or Krall) think trading for a Newman will appease the apathetic fan base? I don’t know.

        I do know that fans need to stop going to games and stop watching on TV. Anything we can do to stick it to the cheap ownership. Unfortunately the Castellini’s continue to be rewarded for going cheap. Now I see why the Pirates owner Nutting has been successful doing this for 15 years… because the fans keep rewarding his miserly ways. SAD.

  10. Harry Stoner

    Newman is this year’s Minor.

    Bull Krall makes a deal to shed shed players and contracts only to immediately get cold feet and tries to patch it up w an expensive redundant signing.

    Just like last year.

    Reds already have Reynolds.

    Instead of clearing out the old guard to give room for the new blood, Krall just clogs it up further

    Hard to see this as anything but another ‘dollars first’ initiative.

    Krall probably got his marching orders and tried to do the best thing he could think of, which of course mean pile up more middle infielders.

    While giving away a truly possible talent in the bullpen.

    For a mediocre version of Kyle Farmer.

    Okay, folks will say “They weren’t going to pay Farmer’s arbitration costs, so it’s good to get at least something for hime….”

    Like the way Barhart and Drury were unloaded.

    I get the tear down.

    What I don’t get is Krall’s non commitment to it.

    You want to play Barerro, Senzel, Steers, India in your infield and roll with it with Reynolds on the rim.

    But you don’t have the huevos for it, so you trade for Kyle Farmer Lite because you think you’re covering your axx.

    I don’t see any point or any direction in this other than saving some Do Re Mi.

    But they would have save even more money by not taking another schlub’s contract.

    Reply
    • Colorado Red

      What?
      Newsom will make about 3Mil this year, Minor made 10 last year.
      Newsom is middle level utility play with a WAR of 1.1. Minor was negative WAR.
      Farmer had a lower WAR.
      Not a great trade, but not bad.

      Reply
      • Melvin

        Another question is will David Bell use him more than he should instead of developing the “youngins”? He seems like the kind of player David Bell loves to play. I doubt Newman is a difference maker much if any as far as wins and helping towards our next “winning window” if/when that comes. Again, for me, I don’t know why there was a need to “replace” Farmer outside of our current roster. To the penny pinching Reds is wasn’t a wise move in my view.

      • Harry Stoner

        Think about it.

        Not paying Newman (or Farmer) means another $3M in savings.

        Farmer’s money wasn’t what was in the way, but Farmer’s role under the Bell regime of playing 30 something mediocre ‘utility’ players over developing young prospects so he could pretend as if he were ‘managing’.

        What’t the point of trading your high end players for prospects and then not making room for those prospects by trading for and playing more MOR journeymen?

      • Redsvol

        Think about it, not having a competent MLB shortstop on the roster in 2023. Scary thought for those young pitchers to not know whether their hard work at inducing soft contact will lead to outs.

        We went into 2022 with way too little MLB starting pitching on the roster. Injuries will happen, and what it yields is a team that can’t field a competent MLB team. In other words, Chase Anderson, Robert Dugger and TJ Zuech starting games for you. I applaud the front office for understanding the whole team can’t consist of players who have never played in the major leagues. Newman makes a fine utility player and blocks noone that earns some starts.

  11. Michael B. Green

    Newman was a 2017 Top 100 Baseball America prospect (#55). His power should play up in CIN. His defense was pretty good in 2022 at both 2B and SS. He has 3 options and is under control until 2025.

    I think Newman is a nice piece. I really liked Moreta but you have to give someone up to get something. Plus, if Antone, Sims and Santillan are healthy, Moreta could have been lost in the shuffle.

    Wonder if CIN is done making moves? Quick flurry here.

    Reply
    • Doug Gray

      He’s got a career IsoP of .097 on the road. It’s not going to play up much – he’s got Billy Hamilton power.

      Reply
      • Melvin

        If you don’t have power in Cincy you just don’t have power. lol

      • BK

        Newman’s lifetime slugging percentage is 30 points, almost ten percent better than Billy Hamilton’s. His lifetime OPS+ is 12 points better. BH is a poor comp. Moreover, Newman generated a better OPS+ and wRC+ than Farmer did last year. That’s the right comp, since that is the player he was acquired to replace.

  12. Michael B. Green

    I’m wondering about the plan for India and/or Senzel. If Senzel does shift to the IF – or if Solak plays both If and OF – I think we could see Reynolds depart. He is out of options. Lopez still has an option but I’m not sure CIN can get him through waivers.

    Right now the 40MR includes 10 IF – not counting Senzel – and that’s probably too many. Guessing they drop down to 8-9 (perhaps 9 if the DH candidates are IF – which they are in Votto and Moustakas).

    I think it is easy to say that nobody is blocking Marte, De La Cruz and McClain if they excel in 2023. $42M+ comes off the books after 2023 re Votto and Moustakas too.

    Reply
    • Bdh

      You have to think Reynolds is as good as gone now right?

      MLB middle infield – India, Barrero, Newman, with Solak and Steer also available

      AAA middle infield – Lopez, De La Cruz, McLain, possibly Ivan Johnson + Miguel Hernandez

      He’s just taking up a 40 man roster spot at this point. Drop him and use the 3 open slots on a corner outfielder, a starting pitcher, and a backup catcher. There’s actually more good options than I thought there’d be for all 3 categories too

      Reply
      • Votto4life

        Maybe India or Barerro will be the ones gone. Nick Krall claiming Kevin Newman is more of a natural middle infielder than Farmer sounds like there may be a change at 2b or SS. Unless they move India to 3B. Who Knows?

        Just doesn’t seem you would be that worried about such a minor upgrade defensively, unless you are adding Newman as a starter.

  13. Brad

    Can’t wait till I read the headline Bell & Krull traded for cash considerations. Big Bob and little phil DFA’d. What a great headline.

    Reply
    • Colorado Red

      Negative cash considerations would be more like it.

      Reply
  14. Rednat

    why waste the 2.8 million dollars on these type of players? Pham, Minor, Newman? you are going to lose 100 games with or without them. might as well save up the money for when you do decide to compete again. or spend it on better hot dog stands at the ballpark, who cares. I agree with Harry Stoner’s comment above. these moves just make no sense.

    Reply
    • Michael E

      Well, maybe Newman is reborn into an average utilitiy player with best offensive year in a few years and gets us another prospect via trade in July? this is the type of player a contender might want as insurance for a couple of starting IF that might have injury issues or history.

      That is my glass half-full take. $2.8 million is palatable and doesn’t affect the payroll for long even if he stays.

      Reply
    • TR

      The question: Is Newman the Minor of season 2023 with a farm system loaded with infielders? A significant move would be to cut ties with Aquino and Senzel by moving on and strengthening the bullpen, along with spending some money by acquiring a solid rightfielder to stabilize the present outfield, along with accquiring a backup catcher for Tyler Stephenson. The bottom line is another 100 loss season faces the Reds unless managing ownership spends some money. Without that happening, in today’s game, the Reds will just be another ‘also ran’ team.

      Reply
    • Daytonnati

      Nice! I remember when the Pirates had Newman and Kramer as their double-play combo.

      Reply
  15. Old-school

    Newman has been a good defender the past 2 years. Borderline GG 2021 level. Krall said the infield defense was worst in the league and has to get better.
    Infield defense improves, Newman will make $3 million ish. Good insurance for Barrero if /when he flops in ST hitting again and no one else is ready.

    Farmer was a poor defensive SS and trading for Steer who is a good defensive 3b in the minors makes no sense to sit or rotate around the field behind 32 yo Farmer on a last place team.

    Reply
    • Hotto4Votto

      Farmer was exactly league average at SS according to DRS which rated at 0. Newman was -2 DRS last season at SS.

      This is what MLBTR wrote about his defense: “He’s logged over 2500 big league innings at shortstop, typically rating at or a bit below league average. He drew quality marks in 2021, but for his career, he’s been an estimated nine runs below average according to Defensive Runs Saved and six runs below par in the estimation of Statcast. Public metrics have rated him slightly below average in just under 800 career frames at second base as well.”

      Not really sure how you come to the conclusion he’s a good defender. He’s definitely not GG caliber.

      Reply
      • Hotto4Votto

        I don’t know many “good” SS that are negative on the runs saved. And that’s for ‘22 season.

      • Old-school

        Newman didnt play much SS in 2022 because of O’Neil Cruz. In 2021, Newman was a Gold Glove finalist at SS with Brandon Crawford and Francisco Lindor.

        Newman was 3 OAA and beat out Lindor and Crawford with 9 DRS. He had a 76 game errorless streak and a fielding percentage of .993. The Fielding Bible which used advance analytics beyond DRS ranked him the 6th best defensive SS in baseball.

        If MLB puts you in the final 3 for NL SS Gold Glove and the fielding bible says you are top 6 in MLB, Thats a good defensive SS.

      • Hotto4Votto

        Well, first off, GG awards are mainly decided by a vote by managers, who can’t vote for their own players and only for players in their league. So it’s much more subjective than objective.
        Joey Votto actually won a GG yet people on this site trash his defense all the time, so I’m not it’s really the best measure. Secondly finishing top three in one league does not necessarily equate to top 6 overall, as the 4th or 5th best in the other league could actually be better.
        Lastly, he was good in 2021, with 7 DRS, but that means he’s been -16 DRS in other seasons if he’s -9 for his career. Personally, I find it foolish to base someone’s defensive prowess off the obvious outlier season when every other data point paints an entirely different picture.

      • Hotto4Votto

        Actually, my bad, I missed the Fielding Bible top 6, shouldn’t post while distracted. Again, disregard that, my bad. But the rest of my point stands.

      • Old-school

        No worries HFV.
        We both want the Reds to get out of this morass.
        I just want to push forward with a new roster and new era and budget reboot and clear payroll for 2024. Lots of assumptions the Reds will never spend money but I think in 2024 + the Reds will get back to the $135-$145 million payroll. I could be wrong on that. They just never stuck to a plan before and Krall finally is doing it. Next off-season will be the tell. Farmer vs Newman is so irrelevant in the big picture of 2024-28

      • Hotto4Votto

        Fair enough, Oldschool. You’re correct we both want the next era to arrive, and at the end of the day this debate won’t matter. Good discussion, thanks

  16. AMDG

    Newman’s career OPS+ is slightly lower than Farmer (79 vs 85), but his OPS+ last season was better than Farmer (94 vs 90).

    Newman K’s less than Farmer, and overall the hitting is probably a wash, as both guys should be hitting in the bottom half of the order.

    But if Newman has better defense, is 3 years younger, and is cheaper, then it seems like a potential upgrade.

    Reply
    • Colorado Red

      Probably even for 3 mil less, which will go into Bob’s and the other owners pockets.

      Reply
  17. Votto4life

    It seems all the Reds have done is to trade a fan favorite without improving the team or saving much money. The Reds are going out of their way to alienate their customers.

    Reply
    • Rednat

      yes, perfect comment. one day. maybe years from now, the reds may have a decent year but I am afraid by then there will be no more reds fans left to cheer them. I personally would rather have seen Farmer out there. he is a fan favorite and always plays hard. just less and less reasons to come out and watch the team now

      Reply
    • Michael E

      Why on earth is Farmer a fan favorite? He’s no favorite of mine.

      A subpar player that gets a cult following. Like Billy Hamilton and his .190 hitting did for a few years before fans finally soured on him.

      Losing Farmer doesn’t move the team needle. Gaining Newman doesn’t move the team needle. I hold out hope Newman has a decent offensive year and becomes a July trade to get yet another upside prospect (albeit outside the trading teams top 6 prospects or so).

      Reply
    • Michael

      Farmer is an easy guy to root for and is (was) a fan favorite and I am surprised the team had the guts to trade him knowing some fan backlash was coming. I agree that Newman is the insurance for Barrero who likely needs to go back to AA to perfect his ability to hit a breaking ball. And this trade opens up 3rd for Steer. You know Bell would play Farmer over Steer. Reynolds is also a Bell fav but I don’t think he is a legitimate SS on opening day.

      Reply
  18. Hotto4Votto

    I think I’d have rather kept Moreta. He doesn’t walk, doesn’t hit for power, isn’t more than an average defender regardless of position, and started striking out more last season than he ever has before. Cool.

    If the Reds start the season with Newman, Reynolds, and Moose on the roster, they’re doing the rebuild wrong. Which wouldn’t be a surprise based on the last one, but I was hoping for better results.

    Insert Seinfeld meme “Hello Newman”.

    Reply
    • Jim Walker

      And you might as well add Senzel’s name to that list. When all is said and done, one way or another his performance ends up where BBRef tables say it is, not where Reds fans continue to hope it will be based on (now) 6 year old projections.

      Senzel, Reynolds, and Newman are just slightly varying takes of the same player at this point.

      Reply
      • Hotto4Votto

        True. I think this may be Senzel’s last chance to prove it. Otherwise he starts getting more expensive for his non-production.

      • Tom Diesman

        I totally agree on Senzel. He has options remaining and I think they should give him a ticket to Louisville at the end of Spring training with marching orders to work on playing the OF corners and swiping bases with the understanding he’s not coming back to the majors until he’s tearing up AAA pitching with at least a .800 OPS in 100 or mor PAs. Tell him straight up they can pick up a minor league FA that can replace what he’s done the last few years for a lot less money.

  19. Redgoggles

    Budgetary accountants unanimously applaud these deals.

    Seriously, Reds. Shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic isn’t really doing it for me anymore. Let me know when you are serious about providing good content for your customers. Otherwise, I’ve found other things to do. Thanks, Phil.

    Reply
    • RedBB

      Might as well get used to it. Not sure what anyone believes the Reds are gonna do anything until 2024 when Votto and Moos’es contracts finally get off the books. The move is a good one. Newman is better and cheaper than Farmer and has a higher ceiling. If he has a good year you move him at the trade deadline.

      Reply
    • Michael E

      As if Phil cares what you think. He comes to the office next to daddy every day and just sits back and smiles, wondering how fans are this gullible to still be paying money for seeing Reds live or helping with advertising money watching Reds on TV. He probably chuckles a few times each day, shaking his head thinking of us.

      Reply
      • Votto4life

        @Michael Yep, I am sure he laughs every time he dumps another salary and logs into RLN to read how folks here are saying how brilliant the move is.

  20. RedBB

    Excellent pickup. Not sure why anyone is upset about this. Newman is better than Farmer and $3M cheaper. Kudos to Krall for swinging this trade.

    Reply
    • earmbrister

      Well, it’s excellent if you put it that way. Similar production for half the cost. Heck, it’s also excellent in that it gives the whiners something to complain about. Such angst for a minor move.

      Reply
      • Votto4life

        @armbrister in the past year the Reds have traded or failed to re-sign Grey, Miley, Barnhart, Castellanos, Castillo, Mahle and now Farmer without investing the savings back into the team. People have a right to “whine” as you would say.

      • earmbrister

        V4L — you have the right to complain, but I don’t understand what you get out of it. Tough way to live your life.

        Putting that aside, why does it make sense for the Reds to invest the savings RIGHT NOW? The Reds finished third in the division in both 2020 and 2021. They missed the playoffs in 2021 after getting into the WC series in 2020, only to score exactly ZERO runs in 2 games. They wisely started a rebuild and got a boatload of prospect talent in return. While that talent is working its way thru the minors, why would they invest any serious money in stopgap talent in the majors? So that they can win 75 games instead of 62?

        This coming season is about sorting and moving the talent thru the minors. Spencer Steer has made it to the majors. Brandon Willamson and Levi Stoudt should be right behind him. EDLC could very well be in Cincy by the end of the season. The investment should start in 2024, as additional talent finds its way to the show.

        I’m tired of of finishing in 3rd, 4th, or 5th place in the division. The Reds tried to push their chips all in in 2020 and they busted, with two 3rd place finishes to show for it. The rebuild was the correct path and they need to finish it without corrupting it with half measures intended to just sniff a .500 record.

      • Votto4life

        Earmbrister, I have been following and supporting this team for 50 years. I have attended 25-40 home games every season (except 2022) since 1973. I also make 2 or 3 road trips a summer. I don’t need your permission to be upset with this ownership group.

        A few months ago, everyone was hyping up 2024. Those voices have gone silent why? Because people are seeing this team is going to be light years from competing a year from now.

        It’s great the Reds have prospects, but until they produce anything at the major league level, they are just that ..prospects (remember Brandon Larson, Phillip Ervin etc.?). No matter how highly touted their prospects are every single one of them have major flaws. EDLC strikes out 30% of the time. That is not going to play at the major league level. Williamson walks a ton of batters, another problem that will not play well at GABP.

        You want to drink the Kool Aid and believe the Reds really have a master plan to be competitive (which no one from the Reds front office even acknowledges, by the way) that’s fine. But you don’t have the right to insult people who have been following and supporting this team their whole lives after what the Castellinis has done to this team the past couple of seasons.

        I used to really enjoy your posts. I am sorry to see they have now went in this direction.

      • earmbrister

        Votto4Life, I never suggested that you need my permission to be upset with this ownership group. Heck, I never even singled you out. I made a general comment about this trade giving the whiners something to complain about. If you want to be the flag bearer for those people that piss on every single move (big or small) that the GM makes, that’s your choice. But I certainly didn’t label you as such. My point was that I thought that the negativity had gotten out of hand, so I called it out and disagreed with it.

        I also have spent more than 50 years of my life rooting for the Reds, as I am in my 60s. At the risk of further dating myself with a worn expression, those 50+ years of Reds fandom and a subway token gets me on the subway. I happen to think that Krall is doing a very good job, given the tools and mandate that ownership has provided. You obviously feel otherwise. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle; time will tell. There are people here that constantly rag on Votto, and I come to his defense (not that he needs me to) every chance I get. You obviously feel the same as I do about Votto. We’re going to agree sometimes and disagree others. If you found any of my comments disagreeable or insulting, I apologize. That wasn’t my intention.

        Some people might feel that we’re light years away from competing, but I don’t see that. When was the last time that the Reds had the number of young quality starting pitchers that they have now? Lodolo struggled with health and consistency to start the year, but certainly performed at a high level from mid season on. Does he have flaws? Sure. He led the league in hit batsman with only 103 IP, and walks too many batters (a common youngster problem). Likewise, Hunter Greene has flaws, for example a propensity for giving up HRs. However, like Lodolo, when Greene is on he is spectacular. Ashcraft might have more to work on than the other two, but at age 24 he gave them a solid rookie year.

        EDLC might currently strike out too much, but at age 20 he slashed .304/.359/.586/.945 at AA and A+ this year. He hits, walks, hits for power, and has a plus arm and plus defensive instincts. Williamson, Marte, Arroyo, and Collier are all considered top top prospects. All have some flaws/things to improve upon, otherwise they’d be a MLB All-Star/MVP.

        After 2023, the contracts of Moustakas and Votto will largely be off the books providing even more available funds to be spent to plug holes. However, you can’t plug the most important holes until you know what they are (and they are certain to change). And why, for instance, would you invest in the bullpen in 2023 when no one expects the Reds to be ready to compete? The time to start spending serious money is in 2024 and 2025, not now.

        As for the Reds FO not having or acknowledging a master plan, why would they publicly detail their plan? I don’t talk much about my approach to fantasy football, but I certainly have well honed ways of building a roster. Bill Belichick doesn’t share squat with the public. Do you think his success was not a product of careful planning and a well defined philosophy? Just because you might not know what the Reds plan is, doesn’t mean they don’t have one.

        And FWIW, I’m not a fan of the Castellini’s by any means. Just a fan of the team, their GM, and a lot of their players.

      • Optimist

        I’ll jump in and add to my comment below given Earmbristers comments. I’ve been a fan since the 60’s as well. I think Krall has done good with what he’s been dealt. I think DW was on a very good track, particularly with the off-field, non-MLB organizational changes. I’ve long thought he returns as a managing partner, and look forward to that, given current controlling owners budget issues.

        All that said, they could commit an additional $50-60M per year to the budget immediately which would put them in wild card contention in 2023. Most any team could do the same. The Reds won’t, obviously.

        Meanwhile, the can keep nibbling at the budget as these deals show, and use 2023 to decide how much MiLB talent will make it to the 2024 team. With a chunk of good luck and good health, considering how bad the Central is, they could be a mid-season trade from wild contention or the division race. Again, most teams in 4 of the divisions are in the same state. Still, it sets up 2024 nicely.

        What they shouldn’t do is make one big signing this year which would likely do nothing for contention, and give them more claims of budget constraints going forward.

        I think, and many of their actions indicate, that they’re setting up for the next ownership change, which simply rotates the managing partner amongst the current limited partners. I’d be very surprised if there was a complete sale of all existing partner shares to a truly new owner, or they make anything other than one-year deals this off-season.

        Still an optimist, and it’s hard to lose 100 games unless you’re trying to, but next season will still be well under .500.

      • Redsvol

        Its called a rebuild for a reason. You don’t keep doing the same stupid things that got you wild card losses or non-contention by July. You change the strategy and change the players. It takes more than 12 months to do that with long term contracts that the silly collective bargaining agreement provides to players for past performance.

        I enjoy seeing the changes because it shows that it isn’t business as usual. Rebuilds are painful. They always have and always will be. The Astros stunk for a decade.

      • JayTheRed

        Votto4Life

        Just to be clear I have said it will be 2025 when they START becoming a better team.

        PS. 99.9 percent of the time I agree with your assessments of this team. Glad we typically are on the same page.

    • Michael E

      Exactly. I am perplexed. Glad I have higher standards for my “favorite” player. Currently I see no player on the Reds that is a favorite. There are a couple of young players I’d be upset to lose in a trade (unless we got back even better player), such as Greene, Lodolo, but that’s about all that would get me mildly upset. Farmer being traded is a giant yawn.

      Reply
  21. Steven Ross

    I feel sorry for Newman. Goes from the perennial awful Buccos to now the gawd awful Reds.

    Reply
      • Michael E

        Not so sure, Pirates might be closer to fielding a winning team than the Reds. Depends on what lowered payroll in 2024 actually means (busy off-season of GOOD FA signings or crickets).

  22. Tom Mitsoff

    A few quick reactions:

    1) I really didn’t believe they would get rid of Farmer for a Class AA pitcher because he was going to make $6 million. I guess I just keep hoping there is some point at which it becomes worth keeping players who can contribute to winning. Farmer has shown he is an excellent platoon option against lefties.

    2) Thanks to @Hotto4Votto for the numbers on Newman. I presumed Newman was better defensively than Farmer at shortstop, but that appears to not be the case.

    3) I am glad that the front office appears to have made plans to not rush any of the shortstop prospects to the big leagues before they’re ready. I’m also glad that Barrero apparently will be made to earn a promotion back to the bigs. He has not earned a spot on the 2023 roster with his big-league performances to date.

    4) Like many of you, I still hold out hope that there will be some moves made at actually improving the talent on the field instead of the profit margin. These moves sobered me up a bit. 😉

    Reply
    • Alex Reds

      I think the point is that they thought Newman could contribute to winning just as much as Farmer or essentially a wash. Newman is also an excellent platoon option vs lefties. Krall said they were going to keep Farmer if not for the trades. They were able to save $3M in the swap of utility infielders, which *could* be re-invested into the team. I wouldn’t assume the trade was only about profit margin. The Reds could still be saving money this year to spend bigger when their more competitive window opens in 2024 and 2025 due to the payroll freeing up. That would be a smart move, but I doubt we will ever officially find out. Farmer was unhappy with his role last year when the Reds tried to get prospects playing time, that may have also played a factor as well.

      Reply
    • TR

      And I hope that the offseason will see the replacement of Mr. Castellini and Son as the Managing Ownership with the Williams Brothers led by Dick Williams, former president of baseball operations. Revitalization is needed at the top.

      Reply
    • Jim Walker

      Tom> Farmer might have actually been worth the money as a platoon partner paired with Fraley (in LF) who also picked up a couple of starts a week as the super sub.

      I’ve always thought the idea that Krall might make some of his moves to try and rein in D.Bell’s options and proclivities was a bit off the wall. But now I’m willing to have at least a bit of an open mind to considering it as having some validity. Perhaps Bell is too well placed for Krall to directly give him strong “guidance”; so, Krall at times uses roster management to attempt to move Bell in or away from some particular direction?

      Reply
      • MK

        Newman is Farmer so options still there

      • Chris Holbert

        I agree. When three of the potential opening day starters are Votto, Moose and Farmer, how does that equate to a rebuild and playing younger and getting better defensively. Krall has no choice but to take those “toys’ away or DB will play them, he cannot help himself.

    • DataDumpster

      Another well balanced post from @Tom Mitsoff. Sure there are reasons to trade Farmer but for a AA pitcher? Does anyone remember that Farmer had 37 more RBIs than the next highest Red last year? Oh, but he didn’t get injured…but that is not all luck and his clutch hitting surpassed all others. Much has also been made of his leadership, hustle, management potential, and other intangibles. Who of our current players will have the desire, talent, and credibility to mentor the up and comers not to mention cover Farmer’s 78 RBIs? If these mediocre savings are in preparation for a good OF or Catcher free agent acquisition, perhaps these moves makes sense in the budget Krall was given. If not, have fun watching Bell playing another year of position player roulette toward another ball of confusion.

      Reply
    • Michael E

      Tom, I have a hard time believing any astute fan on RLN message boards had any notion of competing for playoffs in 2023. I think we all know this was going to be a wait-out-the-Moose-and-Votto contracts season. So far this is what I expected. I expect they move another player that might be due more than a few million in 2023 and 2024 as well.

      I hope they give a Rule V player a shot and keep him all season. It’s a low risk, usually low reward move, but once in a while it can pan out well.

      My only concern is what will be happening a full year from now (and maybe July 2023 trading). Will they be actually talking to top 10 FAs (not the top couple obviously) about signing with the Reds? Will they actually sign two or three top 20 FAs next off-season?

      I am hopeful, but cautious about late 2023 and 2024. I have no delusions for this off-season. It will be sidways moves and clearing every little bit of payroll. We all know this and knew this back in the spring that nothing was going to happen until 2024 (if then).

      Reply
  23. Tom Diesman

    My initial thought after the deal is that dealing Farmer and bringing in Newman does the following for the Reds to begin next season. Removes Farmer from the 3B picture to open up 2B/3B for the best combo of India/Steer to begin the season. Votto/Moustakas cover 1B/DH. Newman begins the year as the starting SS with Reynolds as the utility man and backup at SS. The Reds can then open the season at AAA with a rotating mix at 2B/3B/SS of Barerro/McLain/De La Cruz (Encarnacion-Strand/McGarry cover 1B/DH). As soon as they decide one of those three is ready with the bat, they move up to Cincy as the starting SS with Newman as the utility man and backup at SS and move on from Reynolds. That way Barerro has to earn his way back to MLB by showing he remembered how to hit and nobody is going to be sad when one of those three replaces Newman (Instead of the much beloved Farmer) at SS after tearing up AAA.

    Reply
    • Old-school

      Good analysis Tom and I agree with that plan. Newman was a Gold Glove caliber SS in 2021, making the Final 3 nominees at SS in the NL. Thats not a bad placeholder for an interim period waiting for your under 25 prospects to declare themselves.

      Reply
      • earmbrister

        I agree OS, Tom you nailed a great approach. There’s too much talent in the SS pipeline to doubt that one or more of them will take a leap forward. A Newman/Reynolds tandem to start the year is a nice solution given the state of things down on the farm.

        And while I’ll miss Farmer (a player that most managers would love to have on their roster), moving him allows youth to be served. It was a pretty eventful Friday for the Reds, and both moves, while hardly earth shattering, could serve the Reds very well going forward.

  24. MBS

    Ok, I said Farmer was safe because they need a backup plan to Barrero who could bridge the gap to EDLC. I really don’t hate the move, it might have even been a smart move. I just don’t want them to sit on all the money that’s been cut. Reinvest the money in short term FA”s.

    Reply
  25. Optimist

    They lost 100 games with Kyle Farmer arguably their best position player, and Moreta a very limited but useful bullpen piece. How many more or fewer losses will result from these deals? Unless and until one of the MiLBers bursts into stardom, or they sign 2 $40-60M free agents, the W/L record won’t change much.

    Reply
    • DX

      Thank you, thank you, thank you for getting it. These comments about Farmer amaze me. His OPS+ was a 90. He’s 33 and he’s never been better than a below average player.

      Reply
  26. David

    Well, the signed Buck Farmer to a new contract. Well….wow.

    The Reds will have to come up with a second catcher (at least). So there’s a free-agent acquisition or trade. It just hasn’t happened yet.
    Branch Rickey once said, it is better to trade a player a year too soon, than a year too late. I don’t know how much longer Kyle Farmer will be “good” (ie, a .700 OPS..??), but someone (the Minnesota Twins) seemed to think he was worth “something”.
    And the Reds have load of infielders soon to arrive, so Farmer is a guy that, despite being a good guy, solid player, etc… was going to be blocking someone.
    Do you invest $6 Mil in an aging player, when you have more talented young guys knocking on the door?
    I think my disappointment was in the trade of Moreta, who I thought could be a good BP pitcher going forward. And that means another BP slot to fill (and well, it looks like Buck Farmer is staying).
    I would wager that at least one of the young guys scheduled for the Minors (AA or AAA) will set the Spring training league on its ear, and be considered to make the Major League 26 man roster for 2023.
    Management was watching the end of 2022, and you can’t miss the fact that Barrero just didn’t hit. If he flops in Spring Training, who, then, plays SS, until one of the younger guys arrives?
    And yes, this is all pretty disappointing, but Spring Training isn’t here yet, and there will likely be some more players added.

    Reply
    • Optimist

      I suspect Doug is working on this right now, but I wonder if the Reds are looking at picking up a Catcher in the Rule 5 draft. The Yankees have 2 unprotected, and the Nats and Padres one each. Considering that’s essentially the talent level they used last season, if they expect TySteve to catch 120 games, they may think they can hide/carry a such a 2nd/3rd catcher for a long while.

      Reply
    • Votto4life

      I don’t think a lot of fans have a problem with trading Kyle farmer. I think the problem comes, as with all of these trades, with the Reds not re-investing any savings back into the team.

      For two years now, the Reds have traded any player earning more than $5 million a year. The team have yet to reinvest the money saved back into the payroll.

      People should not be shocked when Castellini is unwilling to reinvest Votto’s and Moustakas’ salaries back into the payroll, when they come off the books next year.

      Reply
      • Michael E

        I think most of us (assumed all) knew 2023 was going to be another throw away year while waiting out the negative contracts of Votto and Moose. Why are we questioning not reinvesting money this year? While I’d love the Reds/Castellini to have a $200 million payroll, it ain’t happening. I’d rather the payroll continue to be trimmed so that in 2024 no excuse is left. My concern is whether NEXT year at this time we’re seeing encouraging signings and rumors or crickets. Next year I’ll be as mad as Hotto4Votto is this year, but this year, I am fine with the moves so far. We aren’t competing in 2023, we all know this, barring a half dozen prospects catching fire unexpectedly vaulting the MLB team into wild-card contention (about a 0.5% chance).

      • Michael E

        Sorry, Votto4life, not Hotto4Votto, my bad.

      • Votto4life

        Michael E. I understand your perspective and yes if the Reds are not spending money this off season, so they can make a big Free Agent splash next off-season, I would be 100% behind this front office.

        I just simply don’t believe that is the case. I was supportive of that approach in the last re-build, only to be disappointed when the time come for the Reds to put real money into the team to get them over the top, they started slashing payroll again.

        Obviously, Shogo and Moose were bad signings, but every time have bad signings. They don’t start selling off players when they get stuck with a bad contract or two.

        Yes, the 2020-2021 Red’s roster was poorly constructed. But when that happens you make trades or sign free agents to fill holes, you don’t start yet another rebuild. By the way, the current Red’s roster is poorly constructed. We don’t any impactful outfielders and none on the way, we have only one catcher on our40 man roster, and we have dozens of middle infielders.

        I think RLN has become an echo chamber, where people believe there is a plan for this team to compete as early as 2024. What is that belief based upon? It’s not based on anything that has been articulated by Bob Castellini or Nick Krall. They certainly have not mentioned a plan that will make this team competitive. The only goal that has been articulated by them, in the past two years, is “aligning payroll with resources”.

        In fact, everything that has happened, in the past two years, is evidence that The Reds ownership is going 180 degrees in the opposite direction. How much payroll have they slashed in the past two seasons? How much of the savings have been re-invested in the team? Seriously, Michel E. Do you really think Bob Castellini will be spending $30 to $40 Million dollars on free agents a year from now? (And if so, do you think good players will want to sign here?)

        Michael E. I am not saying this about you, but seriously at times, I feel like I am in a Twighlight Zone episode. Everyone, here seems so convinced the Reds have a master plan and it involves Bob Castellini spending whatever it takes to get the Reds over the top. Not this year of course, it’s too early, but next year for sure. They are convinced that once Votto’s and Moustakas’ contracts come off the books the Reds will spend again. Yet the Reds didn’t start spending when Bauer, Iglesias, Grey, Miley, Barnhart, Castellanos, Suarez, Winker, Mahle and Castillo’s contracts came off the books.

        Maybe, everyone in here is right but me. Maybe, I am an idiot for not believing in “The plan”. I certainly hope I am, because believe or not, I love the Reds and all I want them to do is win.

  27. Melvin

    From FANSIDED

    blogredmachine.com/posts/reds-trading-for-kevin-newman-makes-almost-zero-sense-kyle-farmer?utm_campaign=FanSided+Daily&utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email

    Reply
    • MadMike

      Melvin, also, check out the Pirates end of this at Rum Bunter. In describing Newman, they used the phrase “one of the worst hitters in baseball” not once, but twice!

      I guess that makes him a fit right in with the Reds (?)

      This iteration of Reds rebuild keeps looking and more like the start of the Orioles rebuild. It is gonna 5+ years in the wilderness if they keep going like this.

      Reply
      • Votto4life

        MadMike, I think the Reds are looking at a lost decade. The 2020’s are going to be pretty rough for the hometown team.

        My hope is this tear down is a prelude to the Castellinis selling the team in the next couple of years. Bob is not getting any younger and I could see him wanting to liquidize his assets. Also, If rumors are to be believed, the Castellinis were very upset with the latest collective bargaining agreement. They may feel it’s time to get out.

      • MadMike

        V4L, it is such a sad situation. Any functional business person should recognize there’s a ton of intrinsic value in owning a well known brand (e.g the Reds). They could do many positive things with all sorts of low-cost, low-risk actions. I suppose if someone needed a business school thesis, they could analyze at all of the mistakes the Reds make.

        Maybe Dolly Parton can be drafted to buy the team? Heh

    • BK

      The article really doesn’t support the click bait title. All the article says is that Newman shouldn’t be counted on as the Red’s starting shortstop because of all the talent they have in the upper minors. Newman is insurance for Barrero. If Barrero doesn’t hit, Newman will serve as a bridge until ELDC is ready … for $3M less than Farmer. In terms of WAR (last year and 2023 projections), they bring similar value.

      Reply
      • David

        I think that pretty much nails it. Newman is the bridge to EDLC, if Barrero just doesn’t hit this Spring. But….what if Newman doesn’t hit? The Pirate fans seem to think very little of his offensive abilities.

        I also think that a player’s value with respect to their WAR can be misleading, as to how it is actually determined.

        As a rebuttal, I DON’T think this will be a lost decade, but then again, it could go all wrong. And no, I don’t have ANY faith or misplaced trust in the way the team ownership is presently handling the situation.

  28. MBS

    Looking at the 38 man roster, it’s hard to get 8 men in the bullpen. If you assume all that are expected to be healthy, are healthy you can make it. Not retaining Law, and moving Moreta has certainly opened doors, but I’m not sure for who. Maybe the Reds will promote Williamson or Stoudt to the pen, or go and get a quality piece or 2.

    Reply
    • BK

      I count ten relievers. Nine have time with the Reds; the tenth pitcher played at AAA in 2022: Diaz, Antone, Sims, Santillan, Farmer, Santillan, Cruz, Gibault, Kuhnel, and Karcher. Also, one of Cessa, Dunn, or Overton may be used in the pen. I agree; it’s hard to count on all ten pitchers being healthy. So, a non-roster invitee to spring training may have a decent chance of making the team. Also, the Reds may sign a free agent. We’re very early in the offseason. The Reds will likely do most of their spending closer to Spring Training.

      Reply
      • MBS

        I saw more, just not more that I’d want in the Red’s pen. I liked Law, and Moreta more than Katcher and Kuhnel. If they don’t sign another starter, I’d want Cessa and Dunn as the 4/5 for the rotation, with Overton in AAA ready to replace an injured, or struggling starter.

        We resigned Lively so the AAA rotation could have at least one Vet Lively, one guy with a cup of coffee Overton, and 2 highly rated prospects Williamson and Stoudt.

      • BK

        I would like to see the Reds bring Law back, too.

    • Vottolife

      Williamson would really have to cut down on his walks before they should even consider promoting him.

      Reply
      • Michael E

        Agreed. His future, its all about finding consistency with location/walks. That is the battle cry for half the pitching prospects in the minors, so I am not very optimistic he’ll find his control in time to meet future expectations. This feels like one of those pitchers that finally has a solid year buried in some teams bullpen in 2030 after changing teams 5 times in 5 years and living in AAA.

  29. Old-school

    Krall mentioned that Farmer was transitioning to a corner infielder at this stage of his career and that Newman was still a middle infielder who can play SS/2b. With the shift going away, second base defense is going to be prioritized again. Looks like Spencer Steer has a big opportunity in spring training to cement himself as a big leaguer.

    Reply
  30. Old Big Ed

    I think the Moreta/Newman trade will turn out to be a big nothing burger.

    Both Moreta and Newman are pretty much replacement level, and both were likely on the fence for the Reds’ and Pirates to be non-tendered. I suspect that the Reds offered Moreta the same type of deal that they offered Duarte and Cerda (presumably, a little signing bonus in exchange for re-upping with the Reds), and Moreta refused. Duarte and Cerda, meanwhile, have given the Reds the benefit of two slots on the 40-man, which could among other things be used for a Rule 5 pick (or two) that they have their eyes on.

    I think the Reds will offer Newman a contract of close to what he made last year, or about $2 million, and then will DFA Newman if he is not interested. Their only conceivable purpose that the Reds have for Newman is as a backup plan for a continued Barrero offensive flop, and they figure that EDLC will be brought up by June. The Reds will have given up Moreta as a cost for the Newman foray, but they didn’t really much want Moreta, anyway.

    Reply
  31. Harry Stoner

    I think passing on Moreta while keeping Gibaut and Kuhnel was an error that could prove short sighted in the way the Reds mishandled Perez.

    Moreta put up good MiLB numbers….just like we tout the ‘prospects’ but had a rough time in his first couple months last year but then pitched quite well.

    He’s dissed here for serving up taters, but 7 or the 10 he did surrender were in April and May.

    Of course the Pirates might have balked at Gibaut or Kuhnel for Newman.

    Hard to imagine Newman turning down a contract with the Reds at this point in his career. Or the Reds DFAing a guy they just traded for.

    Krall has been talking improving the infield defense, but I’d wish the team would come out with a comprehensive plan for improving the bullpen besides wishing that Antone, Sims and Santillan return to form.

    Reply
  32. Michael B. Green

    I think the CIN future is bright at 2B, SS and 3B. Multiple candidates at each. Perfect environment for some to separate themselves from others.

    1B is a future question mark – but even that spot has some future candidates in McGarry and Encarnacion-Strand.

    A key in 2023 is to test Stephenson’s durability.

    CIN is thin on future LF’s. A Fraley-Fairchild (or Solak) platoon is not bad but I don’t think it is the next championship type fit. I think a timed free agent/trade acquisition will serve as the answer.

    I think we have plenty of current and future options at CF – especially if Allen breaks out this year.

    RF has a few future candidates but Hinds and/or Hendrick need to break out this year. Guessing we will sign a free agent to fill the hole/need now and if Hinds/Hendrick do not progress, the answer is outside the organization.

    SP is in great shape. We need trainers that can keep our SP core healthy. We also need to focus on limiting walks organization-wide.

    The bullpen is not bad IF Sims, Antone and Santillan can make comebacks and Diaz can continue his dominance. A pen like that only needs to add veterans when they are ready to win. Perhaps a veteran signing is trade bait in July/August though too.

    The 2023 season is essentially about maturing the young talent, saying thank you and farewell to the great Joey Votto and hoping Moustakas salvages his career with a decent final year in CIN. With $43M coming off the Books for those two guys, the team is in pretty good shape going into 2024.

    The 2024 team could have a ton of young talent. Marte, De La Cruze and McClain are all real possibilities. Siani and HInds too. Steer and Encarnacion-Strand as well. And don’t give up on Barrero or India. Senzel could bloom late like Alex Gordon did for KC too.

    If this team turns the corner the second half of 2023 and goes into 2024 with some momentum, we could see CIN spend some money on some complementary veterans.

    Reply
    • Michael E

      Glass half-full, in March 2024 we’re as excited as we’ve been in almost 33 years. GM has signed a top 5 FA to shore up worst position for years to come. Front end of rotations is all-star level and we no longer have any 200k hitters in the lineup.

      Glass half-empty, in March 2024, we’re deflated to see Castellini’s still own team AND gave Krall a yellow light to sign some bargain-bin FAs to overpriced contracts. Castellini’s boast of having an big $80 million payroll. Most of the older prospects haven’t made the step forward into effective MLB players with upside and the season is over before the first spring game starts.

      Hoping next year at this time we’re pleasantly surprised and getting stoked for 2024 contention. The next Reds game I watch may indeed be in April 2024. I don’t see watching any this year, save for maybe EDLC’s first game that I can watch.

      Reply
  33. Old-school

    Nick Senzel had surgery on his toe but is expected back for ST.

    Nick Krall via Nightengale: “ Nick is coming back from injury so will he able to play some infield and some outfield, or just stay in the infield. I think it gives us some flexibility to come in and have people win jobs.”

    Maybe the Reds with Senzel’s pedestrian OF performance and elimination of the shift which means more range at 2b needed and the Reds horrid infield defense, Reds could be reassessing the entire infield for 2024 at both the mLB level and how the parts at AAA/AA dovetail in.

    Reply
    • Michael B. Green

      We need Senzel to step up in a major way. Otherwise, he’ll wear the Shawn Abner/Billy Beane label.

      Reply

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