The Cincinnati Reds announced on Thursday afternoon that they would not be bringing back much of their coaching staff. Manager David Bell and pitching coach Derek Johnson will be returning.

Among the coaches and staff members who will not be returning to the organization in 2023 are Alan Zinter (hitting coach), Delino DeShields (first base, infield, baserunning coach), Lee Tunnell (bullpen coach), Rolando Valles (assistant coach), and Cristian Perez (advanced scouting coach).

It’s not surprising that some coaches wouldn’t be returning after a 62-100 season. There’s only so much that a coach can do when the organization strips you of half of the big league talent you had and then injuries keep some of the remaining talent off of the field for large parts of the year (Baseball Prospectus’s injury tool estimates that the Reds lost more on-field value to injury than any other team in baseball this year and by a wide margin).

With that said, there are going to be plenty of people surprised that manager David Bell will be returning after his team lost the second most games in the history of the franchise. Of course there were people calling for his job after back-to-back winning seasons, too. Bell was under contract for the 2023 season, and he makes a lot more money than the various coaches, too. So from a financial standpoint not bringing him back would be a lot different than not bringing back much of the coaching staff.

The same thing likely applies to Derek Johnson. He was also under contract for 2023, and he likely makes a lot more money than the other coaches given his role as both the pitching coach and the organization’s director of pitching. There were some tough times in 2022 for the pitching staff, but Johnson also oversaw the rookie years and continued development and improvements as the season went along for Alexis Diaz, Nick Lodolo, Hunter Greene, and until his return from the injured list for the final two weeks of the season – Graham Ashcraft.

The first day of the offseason started out with a bang. The next big thing likely to take place is plenty of releases and players designated for assignment when the playoffs end and the players on the 60-day injured list have to be moved back to the 40-man roster where they will need to create spots for.

150 Responses

  1. LDS

    That Bell & DJ are returning, reflects the organization’s total lack of seriousness. But, most of expect the Reds will suck again next year, so I guess it doesn’t matter.

    • 2020ball

      It’s really not a stretch to think Bell is on a shorter leash next season based on this. I figured you might actually be happy with this kind of news (I guess I’m kinda crazy to think that honestly), and maybe its a prequel to Krall wanting to make his choice for a manager instead of inheriting one from the previous regime. The coaches arent the main problem with the team, but I have no issue with bringing in some different voices this year or next.

      • LDS

        I’m somewhat pleased but they stopped way too soon, i.e., letting these guys be the scapegoats and letting Bell walk. These aren’t the guys that make lousy bullpen moves, pick the lineups, double switch in meaningless ways, bench guys following significant performances, etc. They all needed to go, along with the other guy not mentioned in Doug’s report (Geoff Head, senior director of performance and health). But to retain Bell & DJ is nepotism not management. And Bell will likely be the guy that picks the replacements, aside from those already named. Bell is like a corporate manager that never hires someone smarter because he’s afraid it’ll make him look bad.

      • 2020ball

        lol perfect response, about what I expected. The double switch is a thing of the past BTW. Bullpen moves and lineups are solved with better players. Unlike yourself and most, I wont pretend to know how the hiring process plays out in FOs, but I’d expect youre overblowing Bell’s influence in it. I’m sure he’s involved, as any manager should be, but I think its mostly up to Bob, Phil and Krall.

      • LDS

        Krall didn’t fire Bell, probably because he wasn’t allowed. No organization can succeed under these constraints. Period. As for the double switch? Tell Bell not me.

      • Pete

        David Bell is a different matter however, being his family’s integral part of the Reds organization through the years. I doubt Krall has the authority to even fire them if he wanted to. In my mind, it is all about development next year. We will see how well he does with that, I don’t expect a lot of free agent signings or major trades.

      • greenmtred

        the guys who should be fired–but won’t be–are the owners. if they fired bell, he would be a scapegoat, too, since the main reason, by far, that the team lost 100 games was a weak roster made weaker by injuries and by being gutted by trades.

      • Jay Green

        The Reds better start of hot ??? if not the pitching coach will be made the head coach for rest of the year, then depending on him, they will clean rest of the house

    • Private Gripweed

      The lack of seriousness that I see is that this organization lost 90+ games in five of the last seven seasons and that no one in a decision-making position of authority lost their job.

    • JayTheRed

      Both Bell and Johnson only have contracts through next season. I suspect if the Reds have another historically bad start again next season he will be gone.

      At worst case scenario, is they just don’t rehire him at the end of next seasson.

  2. Tom Steuver

    David Bell needs to go. DJ is the only one that should stay. Period.

  3. Old-school

    Bell was signed to a 2 year extension one year ago and with Krall being independently lauded across baseball for his deadline deals, ownership doesn’t really want to eliminate the the one guy who can deflect criticism away from them. So Bell finishes out his contract. Ive been critical of DJ for his miss bats approach instead of induce soft contact but at the end of the day Krall and Johnson are both focused on the number 1 priority which is develop young pitching. DJ did that this year with Lodolo/Greene/Ashcraft/Diaz.

    • Rick Pearson

      I don’t know the situation when it comes to Nick Senzel I really don’t know the contract status with him. But since we are in rebuild Mode, go ahead and keep Fairchild,Freidl,Frayley,Siani

      • 2020ball

        He’s under arbitration so if they tender him a contract it’ll most likely be cheap. I like him as a bench piece personally, Im not sure they find much else better than him on the open market.

      • Rick Pearson

        Well with Nick I don’t know he just the same my point of view not fully vested into the game I know he played over a hundred games this year but this is the only year he has relatively come close lengthy time of play. And he’s not that great of a hitter and when it comes to Aquino I would designate him for assignment yeah he’s got a great arm but he is a liability at the plate more times than not. I really like the attitude of these young players let them play

      • 2020ball

        I try and sneak Aquino through waivers personally, I like him as minors depth.

  4. Rick Pearson

    Will they be bringing back the 3rd base coach ?

  5. CI3J

    Hiring the right hitting coach may be the most consequential move the Reds can make this offseason.

    • David

      And the big question: (drum roll!!!)

      Who makes the hiring decision for the new coaches?
      (rimshot!)
      I assume most of the coaches hired were selections of David Bell.

      Delino DeShields was an outfielder, as I recall. Why is he coaching the infielders? What about Fred Benivides, who was a pretty good Short stop.

      • JB

        Deshields was a 2nd baseman. His son was an outfielder.

      • Luke J

        I’ve seen video of Benivides working with Barrero defensively at short. So I’m pretty sure he does work with the infielders, even if that’s not his specific role.

    • Jimbo44CN

      I agree with that 100%. Our hitting was awful the last two months.

  6. DaveCT

    I’m fine with DJ. Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, and Diaz had pretty good developmental years, not to mention Castillo, Mahle, Miley, Gray etc having success.

    A comment from the eye test arena: I thought having a veteran catcher, Romine, catching the young guys and IMO guiding them also helped them take off.

    That said, re: the coaches, I do hope we conduct a real national search for replacements, rather than simply hiring from within.

  7. Bill J

    Has anyone heard of another team approaching the Reds to get permission to talk to Bell or Johnson about a job? Did Bell hire these coaches or did the FO, either way I suppose they’ll be doing it again that doesn’t look good.

  8. Jim Walker

    Whatever happened to a captain standing on the bridge and going down with the ship? Today settles any question that David Bell will ever be mistaken for Dusty Baker in the integrity department.

    • Jim Walker

      Also, I am wondering how having 3 young outfielders put up post All Star break wRC+ marks of 139, 145, and 146 doesn’t merit as much as what the 3 young starting pitchers did? Does it matter more that none of them were named Senzel or Aquino, if so why?

      • Oldtimer

        I don’t know what wRC+ is. Can you offer their OPS+ numbers because I understand those.

      • Jim Walker

        wRC+ is Fangraphs’ variation on OPS+ (which FG does not use) and they are essentially the same. BBRef doesn’t project OPS+ in their game logs which I use for partial season segments; so, I used wRC+ instead here because Fangraphs game log does project wRC+.

        As you know from OPS+, 100 equals league average and higher is better than average by 1% a point and lower is worse by 1% a point. The same scale is true for wRC+

        Here is a comparative example of wRC+ and OPS+ using their full season totals.

        Fridel> OPS= .750; OPS+=101; wRC+=101
        Fraley> OPS=.812; OPS+=118; wRC+=121
        Fairchild> OPS=.800; OPS+=116; wRC+=122
        ******
        Obviously variations in the two calculation methods cause wRC+ to place a higher value on some part of Fraley and Fairchild’s production above basic comparison of their OPS to the average league OPS which creates the OPS+. And wRC+ actually likes Fairchild’s body of work slightly more than Fraley’s even though Fraley’s raw OPS was slightly higher.

        Hope this helps

      • Oldtimer

        It does. I like OPS+ and ERA+ because they are so simple for me to understand. Each of three was above average. Not many Reds were.

    • LDS

      The Reds should be a case study in freshman economics or accounting, illustrating the sunk cost fallacy and the reality of opportunity cost. Bell is certainly no Mattingly or Baker in the integrity department. He’s just another insider, getting his while the team rots.

    • wkuchad

      The integrity comment isn’t fair Jim.

      Besides Baker, how often do ML managers walk away when coaches are fired?

      • greenmtred

        there’s also the possibility that bell was unhappy with their work and wanted them fired.

  9. Old-school

    Cleveland hitting coach is none other than ex Red Chris Valaika in his first season. Indians lead MLB in fewest K’s and top 10 in hitting overall and doing it with the youngest roster in MLB. Valaika’s asst hitting coach is 21 year vet Victor Rodriguez who helped mentor rookie Oscar Gonzalez into a stellar season. Rodriguez was in the Red Sox organization as an asst hitting coach, including 10 years prior as Latin field coordinator.

    Here’s what he said about getting Gonzalez hitting development on course…”The power was always there. I think you have to become a hitter before you become a power hitter. You have power. The power will come…..We dont want guys coming here swinging out of their a$% with no control. Control the strike zone, put the ball in play, and hit it where its pitched.”

    Francona has talked about his ability to connect with players. Interesting to see how things play out but hitting coach is an important one.

    • Old-school

      Guardians.Guardians.Guardians.

      Assign me -500 Mark.

      • Mark Moore

        Nope … not taking anything away for a minor mistake like that one. I was all for a name change, but the choice of “Guardians” makes as much sense as whatever the Washington National Football Club chose. And don’t get me started on the winged logo 😀

    • AMDG

      Perhaps Valaika is yet another example of the old adage:
      Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach.

      Although the Indians had their lowest offensive output (698 runs) since 2015 (not including covid year). So, perhaps their 2022 offense was not all that fantastic?

      • Old-school

        They dont hit many home runs but that’s a product of playing in Progressive Field, the 2nd toughest park in MLB to allow home runs. What was the easiest park to homer in 2022? GABP.

        They manufacture runs though. Per ESPN playoff guide, Guardians draw comparisons to 2014-15 royals teams-contact hitting, speed ,defense, and a dominant bullpen. Royals did hit HR in playoffs that year.

        Guardians put the ball in play, by a large margin over the rest of MLB. They stole the 3rd most bases in MLB and led the league in first to third on singles.

        Love to see the Reds take the Guardians approach in 2023. A hitting coach that preaches contact, plate discipline and hitting the ball where its pitched. Smart aggression on the bases. A young lineup with speed and defense that are coached how to play the game the right way and then a shutdown bullpen. Thats exciting baseball and a blueprint to speed this thing up a bit, especially with 3 young SP that took a big leap forward in 2022.

  10. RedsGettingBetter

    The Reds problem is about the level of the players available since the Front Office and Ownership decided applied the “aligning payroll to resources” policy that depleted the roster. Really I’m not a fan of Zinter and I agree to split parts with him but I recognize he isn’t the main cause of the pathetic offense showed by the team…By the way, Benavides still continues as the bench coach apparently… I think Bell won’t be fired by Reds FO but I wonder if he could consider resigning instead…

    • Jim

      Looking to next year as far as players.
      Promising young starters. Very Good
      With new rules, base running will win games.
      With Moose and Votto in the lineup Very Bad
      Looks like 2024 is the turning point.

      • 2020ball

        I see no reason to count Votto out at this point, see how the surgery treats him and we still dont have an obvious replacement until Encarnacion-Strand is ready. Moose I can see being cut loose but that wont happen until someone in ST plays him off the roster.

  11. Bred

    This should be the headline Doug Gray selected as director of player development and draft analysis. Mark Moore hired as bench coach. Jim Walker gets the 3rd base coach job. Old School replaces Krall. Nick Kirby tabbed to head media relations and MBE as team psychologist. I haven’t posted this year, but I enjoyed reading all your posts every day. I know I missed a lot of regular posters as you too deserve to take the reins and improve the team.
    Follow Doug on Patreon and help him buy a shiny new Ford Mustang Shelby GT500.

    • Mark Moore

      Darn! And me sitting here completely out of 2022 points since I distributed them all last night on the game thread!

      Frankly, I think Freddie is a good bench coach. I do love, love, love MBE as the team head-shrinker. Methinks we needs that desperately.

    • Jim Walker

      +10000 on supporting Doug’s work via Patreon. This site and RML are his day job.

    • Bill Girton

      Krall is part of the problem . De la Cruz should be given a chance the current ss is not the answer. Keep Kyle , he plays hard and is a great influence on the younger players

  12. Greenfield Red

    My opinion: This entire mess is not because of ownership, David Bell, or Nick Krall.

    The villains are Walt Jocketty and Dick Williams. The 2015 sell off and rebuild were necessary to get younger. WJ’s insistence on major league ready talent in return rather than high quality returns set the organization back several years.

    Then they are finally ready to turn the corner, ownership opened up for free agancy, and Dick Williams squandered the money on little to nothing.

    Ownership has made mistakes for sure, but they have spent a lot of money and gotten little in return.

    So now another rebuild is needed. Nick Krall has made a lot of good moves and is positioning the Reds to win. In order to bring in a lot of high quality young talent, valuable current assets have to be traded which means 2 or 3 bad years. I don’t blame ownership for limited spending during a down time.

    David Bell is a terrible baseball Manager. But, he is cheap, and you don’t need a good Manager on a bad team You will lose either way.

    • Rick Pearson

      Are they keeping the third base coach and I believe isn’t he the catcher’s coach ?

      • Mark Moore

        I didn’t see House’s name anywhere associated with those leaving.

    • Bill Girton

      I agree about Jocketty the team has gone downhill since he arrived!

    • Big Bob's Burner

      Big Bob has always demanded to be involved in baseball ops and had his favorites that he didn’t want to trade at peak value. He is just as much to blame for how those trades played out as Walt, and it’s really hard to evaluate any FO decision or person with the knowledge that big bob has his rules for how things needed to go. As for Dick, some of his signings didn’t work out, but as far as I know, he did a lot to emphasize and update their player development. And who knows what he would have done if the families real estate biz wasn’t crumbling.

      Ownership also picks the front office so they are, in fact, too blame for that as well. They value nepotism and the familiar, and it’s reflected in every GM decision they’ve made.

      And why not keep bell, they are going to be awful next year and you can just get rid of him later.

    • David

      I would certainly put a lot of blame on Walt Jocketty. I think Bob Castellini still calls him up or has him in his office to get important “advice” on how to run the Reds.

      The Cardinals organization got rid of him, and there was a very good reason for that. He would NOT adopt new analytics to evaluate players. So, the proof is ….how many playoff appearances have the Cardinals had..since Walt left, versus the number of playoff appearances the Reds have had (largely on a team that Walt DID NOT really build, that was largely here from previous drafts, etc.)?
      Skip Schumacher, Walt Jocketty turns his lonely eyes to you…..

      Frankly, comparing Walt Jocketty to Nick Krall, I think Nick did a pretty good job in getting value received for value traded. Walt…not so much.

    • Oldtimer

      Walt Jocketty.

      Mid 1980s he was in charge of Oakland A’s minor leagues. Those players became the 1988, 1989, 1990 Oakland A’s powerhouse teams (3 AL pennants, 1 WS title).

      Mid 1990s to mid 2000s he was St Louis Cardinals GM. His teams won 7 Central division titles, 2 NL pennants, 1 WS title.

      Late 2000s to mid 2010s he was Reds GM. His teams won 2 Central division titles and made 1 Wild Card into the playoffs.

      Jocketty was named MLB executive of the year four times in his 20 years as GM.

      It ain’t his fault.

      • Dewey Roberts

        What talent did Jocketty draft that actually made a difference on the Reds’ teams? Not much if you check the records. Mike Leach, Hamilton. Not much else. The players were already there when Walt got here. He left little behind in terms of great drafts. His drafts are why the Reds have floundered since 2013.

      • Greenfield Red

        He insisted on major league ready players, rather than high quality young players, in return for the big names that were traded away in 2015. None of the amounted to anything. The first half of this mess is totally his fault… and his alone.

      • Oldtimer

        Jocketty traded for the missing pieces or signed free agents. The 2010, 2012, and 2014 teams had lots of Jocketty players.

        Jocketty and Baker were MLB caliber GM and manager. Krall or Williams and Bell are not. That simple.

      • Reaganspad

        Baker is a average manager who has been gifted some very good teams. He never developed players; my gosh how do you put Aroldis Chapman in the bullpen? How many World Series did he win with the Giants? Bruce Bochy? Not as flashy but much more effective. You know with 2 teams, he has a .497 winning percentage and the first 2 years after Baker went 71-91 and 72-90 because Baker can only manage a stocked team; Cubs with Kerry Wood and Mark Prior (a case can be made that he ruined both #1’s), Reds, Nats, Houston’s.
        Baker is a good quote, well liked but a terrible manager.
        Walt put together a good team in Oakland and St. Louis always seems to have a good team. In Cincy, Walt was disinterested and did not have the wallet of those previous stops. Wrong GM for Cincy just like Dusty was wrong for Cincy. You know who was right? Bochy, a .497 2 mlb stop manager who could develop players. We are not St. Louis or LA or NY who can simply sign last years MVP or Cy Young. And the trade for Bauer was a mistake even though he won the Cy Young. We need to be signing Dan Straleys and trading them for Luis Castillo every season. Walt couldn’t do that. Baker wouldn’t have pitched Castillo that first year. Too young.
        I do not agree with the way that Walt mis used Cincy’s talent. Chapman should be Clayton Kershaw today. Allowing that to happen with that arm and athlete was criminal and really bad talent evaluation by both Baker and Walt.

    • VegasRed

      This is a flawed argument. Bell is not a winner. That is a fact. He sets the tone for the team with respect to winning or losing, and keeping him on is senseless.

      It is amazing to me that so many people on this board give Bell a pass. But to say the reds are a bad team so it doesn’t matter that they have a bad manager is absurd. The definition of insanity to keep doing what is not working.

      • Greenfield Red

        I did not give Bell a free pasd. He is a terrible Manager He is irrevevant because the team is terrible

      • Stoney

        Exactly correct. Bell should have never been extended to begin with after last years collapse and the absurdity continues. He is incapable of leading a winning team. And Johnson doesn’t deserve to be coming back either. Will be more of what we just witnessed this year. Extremely poor leadership.

      • greenmtred

        no manager is a winner unless he has enough good players. the 2021 team did, in fact, win more games than most people were expecting, and this despite the worst bullpen in the game, numerous injuries to key players and disappointing seasons from several others. bell may or may not be a good manager, but i expect that, like all managers, he has strengths and weaknesses.

      • Bill

        I wouldn’t say I give him a pass, it is just irrelevant who is the manager when ownership is unable/unwilling to field a competitive team. I was surprised he got an extension after the failure to make the playoffs in 21. Dusty Baker got fired because of the failures in the playoffs. In either of those situations the manager may have enough influence to change the outcome. With the 2022 Reds, replacing Bell might move them to 90 losses at best. I think he will be gone after next year, this year was just the start of the purging of the entire coaching system. Bell’s large salary was what kept him on the team, just like Moustakas.

        I wouldn’t even be surprised to see a mid season, or late season firing of Bell as the Reds stumble toward another 100 loss season. That would at least give a head start to the hiring of someone to be in charge when they might actually be trying in 2024. Replacing him for 2023 just sets the new guy up for failure, unless Bob is opening the piggy bank for free agency

  13. Mark Moore

    Who decides to join and who is approached will tell the tale. There will always be guys just itching for a MLB coaching slot regardless of who it is for.

    No surprise with DTBell staying. Perhaps he’s on a shorter leash as noted. It isn’t all on him, but he’s not blameless either. Maybe this is the start of something.

  14. TR

    The only thing important in this move is a new hitting coach.

  15. JB

    I’ve said all along that Bell and Johnson weren’t going anywhere. Bob isn’t going to pay them to sit home or coach another team. Bob is way to cheap for that. Next year will be another sorting year and there is no sense in bringing in a new manager to sort and lose. Let Bell do it in his last year. I’m really not sure why they let Don Long go as their hitting coach. They haven’t done anything since his depature.

    • Chris Holbert

      Aquino 4 seasons 2 good months….see ya

    • VegasRed

      No sense to bring in a new manager to sort and lose? Where does this logic come from? Why bring back a manager that goes 62-100? What is downside to bringing in a new fresh approach and energy, and maybe someone who will demand accountability for playing fundamentally solid baseball?

      Yeah, I know, that’s just crazy talk! Good grief!

      • Greenfield Red

        It would be great if the Reds hired a good accomplished Manager. But it wouldn’t change anything in 2023. They will still lose. I couldn’t care less who is Manager next year.

        Let’s have another great International class, another great draft, and another great trade deadline where they pick up a few more Hectors and Acostas for minor league signings next Spring.

        In 2024 pay a guy like Maddon to right the ship.

      • JB

        Because the Reds are going to lose next year. You don’t bring in a new manager when the roster could easily lose another 90 games next year. Why waste one year of a new managers contract to lose 90 games. Front office isn’t going to sign anybody that’s going to get them over the top. They are paying Bell next year no matter what so let him do the sorting. Front office is going to tell Bell who to play. Cruz and McClain and Strand will be here in 24 when the new manager is brought in. Take your rose colored glasses off and realize the team that ended 22 is the team in 23. Reds are waiting for Moose and Votto to be off the books. Let Bell run the misfits for one more year.

  16. Pete

    It would be nice if they hit the brakes on dislodging Aquino and Senzel until they see if a new hitting coach can be of help. Same with Barrero as well. Looking at Zinter’s body of work I think it’s safe to say he really isn’t much of a hitting instructor. How much does a good hitting instructor help? I really don’t know but we need to find out.

    • Reaganspad

      Totally agree.

      I do not understand why we got rid of Don Long. We had competitive at bats with him and then went all launch angle with Turner Ward

  17. Klugo

    The question now, then, is will they extend Bell or will he be a lame duck manager.

    • wkuchad

      Do you mean extend Bell this offseason? I think there’s a 0% chance this happens.

  18. William

    Bell keeps his job because of the family influence. DJ did a good job with Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, and Diaz. Oh well, it does not make or break the Reds to keep Bell and DJ. I called for Bell’s firing at the beginning of the season. Nice guy, but no Reds manager ever deserved to be fired more. Better days are ahead for the Reds. I am optimistic.

    • Votto4life

      Derek Johnson has done well with Hunter Greene and Nick Lodolo because they are high draft picks with natural talent.

      What has DJ done with the members of the bullpen the past couple of years?

      • Jim Walker

        @greenmtnred> I’d think somebody could have put enough fear of some almighty into them that they didn’t almost on cue walk (or HBP) the 1st batter of an inning or appearance or any batter they started with clean bases. Given the current state of batting averages and BABIP, that would have been a significant positive step.

      • doofus

        Given your logic that DJ has done well with Greene and Lodolo because they were high picks with natural talent. One has to ask: What was Derek Johnson to do without a talented bullpen?

      • greenmtred

        don’t know, Jim. i suspect that it’s very difficult to throw a pitch with effective velocity and movement for an effective strike–that is to say, not just in the strike zone but in a good part of the zone. being able to do that is what separates good pitchers from failed pitchers. if dj had told them to throw strikes, they probably could have, but the strikes would often have been supremely hittable. i doubt that any of them wanted to walk hitters.

  19. RedsFanInFL

    Bell should have never been given a 2 year extension during the middle of the September 2021 collapse that cost the Reds a wild card spot. Now he gets another year because owners are too cheap to pay him to do nothing and hire another manager. The big question is Reds win 74 or 76 games next year, do they extend him because “ownership has seen improvement” and that the “team is going in the right”direction.

    • Votto4life

      This team is not going to win an additional 12-14 games next season. I would be shocked if they exceed their win totals from this year. Keep
      In mind, the Reds had Castillo and Mahle in the rotation most of the first half this season. That won’t be the case in 2023.

  20. MBS

    I’m not upset with this. I do like DJ, and I hope we can keep him around even if Bell gets replaced after his contract runs out at the end of 23.

  21. Jim Delaney

    Not surprised but disgusted at the lack of real change. Barry Larkin said it so well yesterday late in the game telecast, the Reds organization from bottom to top needs to consider a last place 60-102 as totally unacceptable, and it can’t and won’t ever happen again. He is the only person in the organization that you believe when he says it.
    The COO name should have been stripped from Phil Castellini, a new President of Baseball Operations should have been hired to hire a new GM and a new Manager.. Unfortunately under the current Castellini/Williams ownership losing is accepted and they don’t care about putting a competitive product on the field. Reds fans need to send an even louder message to this ownership group and Boycott the ballpark…

    • David

      Yeah, I think Barry (and a lot of other former Reds) are also pretty disgusted with this year’s team.

      Who wouldn’t be? Everybody that participates on this blog is….disgusted with this year.

    • doofus

      Fans are boycotting games. I see more fans in the stands at high school games than Red’s games at the GABP.

  22. Art

    So long as 3M is on the team, management is not serious.

    • Greenfield Red

      No doubt he should be DFA’d. But remember, the cheap ownership everybody likes to jump on, gave him a lot of money because the baseball people told them to.

  23. Fanman

    JR House is the problem clogging the bases. On many occasions I am screaming at tv ‘SEND HIM’! Continually not being aggressive. Not just this year but ever since he has been 3b coach. Why DeShields? Is he the reason the Reds don’t steal bases? Bunt, sacrifice, hit and run? Or is that managers call? Frustrating. I understand the Reds do not have great athletes. However, when there is speed on the bases, rarely are they aggressive and try to manufacture runs. Waiting for 2 or 3 run homerun. Problem being this team is void of power hitters..

  24. Steven Ross

    This is nothing more than the proverbial rearranging of deck chairs. Not much will change next season.

    2024 is when you’ll see the big moves/changes.

    • doofus

      Rearranging deck chairs as the ship is sinking, I might add.

  25. Still a Red

    Well this is more than I expected…and I think more than most here expected (even though they wanted a clean sweep) I don’t understand everyone calling for Bell’s head when he was extended ’til 2023. Everyone here wanted an analytic type. If Bell’s decisions are wrong, maybe the analytics he’s given are wrong. One could question the extension given the fade last year…but don’t forget the Card’s 20 game win streak. I will say though this year’s start questions the teams preparedness. That would be on Bell. Not sure if the injuries were freakish or something systemic. Lots of bad backs with the pitchers implies issue re: delivery, which would be on DJ. At least Krall is saying the right things…can he deliver??

    • Gpod

      Yes we do remember the cards went on a 20 game win streak & they made the playoffs AND THEY FIRED THEIR MANAGER…,,the reds collapse, keep their manager, he then piles up 100 L’s this year & they still don’t fire him!!!!! Do you see any problem with this picture??

      • Still a Red

        Here are some quotes from a CBS/MLB article dated April 22, 2022.

        Shildt was fired over what the organization called “philosophical differences.”
        Shildt believes he may have offered too much input into other aspects of the organization beyond managing the team.
        “There were just some things that I felt could be better, and I thought I was in a safe place to share them. Clearly, I wasn’t.”

        So here’s a guy who was with the organization for 18 years, works his way up from a scout, leads team to three playoff berths. BUT, he sounds like he was a buttinsky. So when his contract expired, they fired him. It sounds to me that this is the picture with a problem. Oh, by the way, they hire a new manager and they still win…so to me it says players matter more than managers.

  26. Melvin

    Maybe try the Louisville Bats hitting coach. He seems to do a pretty good job for the most part from what I understand.

    • Votto4life

      You mean because the Reds players who have been getting called up, have been tearing the cover off the ball?

      • Jim Walker

        Yes, if their names are Friedl, Fairchild, or Fraley (long rehab at AAA and hit like he never did before afterward). And Steer at least looked like he had an idea of what he needed to do. Not Barrero (this year) but 2021, yeah.

      • Reaganspad

        I agree Jim.
        Everyone dissing Barrero forgets that last year, he was EDLC with an HR in the Futures Game with a great average. He just didn’t get the AAA time needed for finishing. Kind of like if we would have promoted EDLC which has been suggested a few times.
        I have no idea if Senzel will yet pan out. But Barrero, with the right help, or possibly starting at AAA again next year to regain confidence and finish his hit tool is worth the investment

      • Melvin

        Yeah, Jim. Aquino would hit like crazy down there too but seemed to get “messed up” by whatever instructions he was getting when he came back up.

  27. Votto4life

    This team is a complete absolute joke.

    What other organization would retain a manager who led the team to the second worst record in franchise history?

    • TR

      My guess would be a team with a nepotism connection from field management to the front office.

      • Votto4life

        Greenfield are you really comparing David Bell to Sparky Anderson????

        When Sparky Anderson lost 103 games he had THREE World Series rings. How many does David Bell have?

      • VaRedsFan

        Sparky did have a history of managing championship teams, so he should get a little rope, don’t ya think.

        I’m still searching for Bell’s previous accomplishments as a manager.

      • Greenfield Red

        V4L of course not. Bell is terrible. What does it matter if you are fielding a AAAA team?

        I suspect 1 more year of DB. As long as they keep putting money in important places (international, the draft, and several minor league contracts than can be traded for more Hectors and Acostas, I’ll be happy.

        I have confidence Krall gets it.

      • greenmtred

        that’s my point, Votto. sparky had great players and his teams won multiple world series. when he had bad players he couldn’t do anything about it. lou piniella had a team that lost nearly 100 games, and casey stengel’s mets, in his first 3 years there, lost 120, 111, and 109 games. when players can’t execute the team loses.

  28. Redgoggles

    Hopefully, they hire Phil Castellini as their new coach so at least there is a chance he’ll be fired.

    That, extensions to Stephenson and India, and 2 solid FA signings (spend $$) would bring me back. After Phil’s comments, I managed to not visit GABP this year for the first time in decades and didn’t watch a single game. When my favorite restaurant uses cheaper ingredients and their food isn’t good, I stop going. It’s a business. They need to do the things to improve their product for their customers. It’s not up to the customers to spend more money in hopes they use it to improve their product. When Phil effectively spit in the food, that was it for me.

    Phil needs to be held accountable. This whole firing of the coaches is insulting considering the limitations the ownership put on this group. We, as fans, need to not fall for their sleight of hand. Who cares what kind of manager David Bell is when he is given a minor league roster to compete in the major leagues. Last year was the year he should have been held accountable when they choked down the stretch…….but also they were in it despite an atrocious bullpen that he somehow managed.

    #fireyoursonBob

    I do miss the Reds, but it’s time for new blood above the field as well.

    • Votto4life

      Redgoogles- same with me. I normally attend 20-25 games per season. I also usually make a road trip or two. In 2022, I attended just three games total.

      Next season, I only plan to attend a game if they have some sort of celebration for Joey Votto. But to be honest, I am not even sure I will attend Joey Votto Day.

      I am just not going to pay major league prices to
      Watch minor league talent.

      I am quickly losing interest in the Reds. I am also losing interest in baseball altogether. I am not sure if there is anything the Reds or MLB can do, at this point, to regain my interest.

      I have followed baseball for 50 years. It’s just not the same game that I grew up with.

      I feel bad for people who didn’t get to experience baseball in the 1970s and 1980s. The game today is not even close.

      I also feel terrible for the younger folks here, who didn’t have the opportunity to follow the Big Red Machine. What a glorious time that was to be a Red’s fan.

      I get that the Reds don’t care if they lose me as a fan. Phil Castellini has said as much. I just wish my fandom had ended some other way. It really bothers me that a team I spent most of my life rooting for, is now a complete laughing stock.

      • Grand Salami

        Went from a small season ticket package to 2 games last season.

  29. Redsvol

    My 2 cents – and probably not worth that much – Reds have had too much instability the last 12 years. You can’t change front offices and managers every 3 years and expect to build any culture.

    We need to establish some consistency and longevity to build culture and a Reds way. I’m not sure Bell and DJ and Krall are the guys to do it. But unless you’re changing the whole front office then I really don’t see point of replacing the manager and pitching coordinator.

    Now next year if we don’t see some improvement and “fire” from the team during games then I don’t think they have a choice but to change Bell out mid season. There just has to be more accountability for playing harder and smarter in this organization.

    • Votto4life

      Ask yourself this question..

      Who is most responsible for the disastrous 2022 season?

      Bob Castellini?
      Nick Krall ?
      David Bell?

      Of course not! It was the first base Coach and the Hitting Coach! Lol this team is such a joke.

      • Greenfield Red

        answer to your question: Walt Jocketty and Dick Williams.

      • wkuchad

        Why Jocketty and Williams?

        The Reds had winning records the last two years. They had little to do with the 2022 roster. Sure I wish we weren’t paying Moose and Shogo in 2022, but show me a team with zero bad contracts.

        Votto’s contract was great for the Reds. I have no problem paying that off in 2022 and 2023.

      • Jim Walker

        Greenfield> The Reds drafted Stephenson, India, Greene, Lodolo and Ashcraft during the time Jocketty or Williams were at the top of baseball Ops. This is not to mention Mahle or the acquisition of Castillo or Gray or Bauer who won the only Reds franchise Cy Young award. Also drafted, acquired/ signed were Raisel Iglesias, Eugenio Suarez, Archie, Jesse Winker and Nick Castellanos.

        Yes, Jocketty didn’t do as well as he might have when moving the likes of Cueto, Chapman and Frazier but there were clear signs that Big Bob was meddling in these situations.

        Yes, Dick Williams missed big on Moustakas and to a lesser a degree on Akiyama. Those are costs of swimming in a deep pool. My recollection is that Dick Williams academic training and vocational background prior to joining the Reds were in finance and banking. I’m guessing he knew the risks he was taking and had a plan for dealing with possible flameouts.

        But again ownership intervened. Williams was ordered to drastically cut the budget he had been led to believe he would be working with over a medium to the long haul. He chose to leave instead.

        The one constant is the ownership. They either don’t have or are unwilling to spend the money to compete. Nick Krall is next up to learn this when he needs to flip some of the new prosect pool or sign a free agent to competently fill a need none of the army of shortstop prospects can be repurposed to effectively fill.

      • Votto4life

        Greenfield,
        You always seem so anxious to excuse everything this front office does. Perhaps you should apply for a job as little Phil’s assistant.

  30. DataDumpster

    Many hoped for Bell to be fired, but the response of the FO is about as expected as these things go. Of course, some underlings bear the brunt of bad decisions made by Bell and others, but what else is new? The team had injury/conditioning problems, poor hitting, bullpen issues, baserunning blunders, and questions of poor prospect development, so a firing in all these 5 areas should do the trick, right? Maybe Bell benefits from the new coaches and improving morale and if not, Freddie emerges to play the Riggleman role. When available expenditures and MLB ready prospects meet competent field management, that should signal the end of David Bell’s tenure and nepotism in general for this franchise. Glory be for Red’s baseball if that happens!

  31. MK

    Seems the coaches retained had more to do with teams game success than those removed except for hitting coach. Kind of odd Assistant hitting coach retained and Hitting Coach booted. Also in Cincinnati style they rid themselves of their only black coach.

  32. Greenfield Red

    I agree there has been cost cutting, but has ownership reaaly been cheap? Not really. Once NC exited via free agency, everyone knew the Reda were in a bad spot. Stuck with Moose and Votto. Not going to win. Why not refocus on wi ning in 2 to 3 years. It is the right call. Most of the traded guys are either injured or didn’t perform or both

    They have spent their draft allotment and their international allotment for the last several years.

    Yes they have cut costs. Bell is bad, but he is cheap.

    They are putting the money where it should be put in a rebuild

  33. VegasRed

    Yeah because Krall has been a failure on the level that Bell has been a failure. No wonder Castellini doesn’t see the need to field a winning team. Even a good portion of the super fans on this board want to hold onto our epic failure of a manager. Incredible!

    • Greenfield Red

      I don’t see Krall as a failure at all. Just the opposite. According to most, he killed it Internationally followed by a great draft, and then put the farm system back on the map in August.

      That is exactly what the organization needed.

      • TR

        You are correct. A good example is the consistent winning of the Cardinals going back to whern GM Branch Rickey built ML baseball’s first farm system.

      • VaRedRedsFan

        Correct….Krall did a great job in starting the turnaround that was needed. Maybe the prospects don’t realize their full potential, but hopefully a few do, and will be a springboard to the next great Reds team.

      • VaRedsFan

        Correct….Krall did a great job in starting the turnaround that was needed. Maybe the prospects don’t realize their full potential, but hopefully a few do, and will be a springboard to the next great Reds team.

      • VegasRed

        Now I understand green. Sarcasm goes right over your head.

        You don’t think it’s crystal clear that Krall has been more successful than pathetic Bell?

    • Votto4life

      VegasRed you are 100% correct. There are MANY Castellini apologists in this group.

      Little Phil would be very encouraged if he read some of these comments here.

      • VaRedsFan

        I’m not sure I’ve heard of anyone singing the praises of the owners.

      • Greenfield Red

        Not a apologist. I understand defunding the current team and investing in the future team thst can win. Some don’t.

      • Votto4life

        Greenfield, The Reds have defunded the current team, the problem is there has been ZERO evidence that they are investing in the future. Of course, you have shown time and time again, you are more than willing to believe anything that comes out of this front office. I’m sure little Phil would love more “fans”like you.

      • Greenfield Red

        Lots of evidence internationally, the draft, and the trade deadline.

        In 2022, they signed 3 of the top 50 internationals and another guy who outshined everyone in the DSL.

        It’s difficult for me to understand those who don’t see it.

  34. AMDG

    The day the Reds get rid of Bell is the day the Reds tell the fans they are finally ready to try winning.

  35. Gman88

    Hold on, everybody! Krall says this season was unacceptable and he’s here to win games. 66 wins next season. Over or under?

  36. Chris Holbert

    Here is my biggest issue with Bell. He would much rather lose with veteran journeyman, then see what a younger player can do and help to develop them at the MLB level. When the “prospects” come up they become bench players or are automatically relegated as a platoon guy, instead of seeing what they can do. Of course there will be growing pains, but they are losing anyways, so what do the veterans bring? How many times does he have to see Strickland and the other carousel of salvaged RP blow competitive starts by the young SP, to know they are DFA for a reason? If they are losing the game because of that revolving BP, give Diaz that experience, and watch him grow, hopefully, into the dominant close they need. When Farmer is your “best” hitter, he was batting third, and had an okay year, for this team, and Fraley is cleanup, what does that say about the Reds. As mentioned earlier, the definition of insanity.

    • wkuchad

      “He would much rather lose with veteran journeyman, then see what a younger player can do”

      I just don’t see this. Last year he did this some, especially with Barrero, but last year we had a winning record and was playing for a spot in the playoffs. This year, he played the young guys all year, especially after the disastrous start to the year.

      Clearly the big three rookie starting pitching prospects played. Our two rookies from last year (India and Stephenson) played when healthy. The only two highly rated offensive prospects that came up this year (Steer and Barrero) both played constantly once brought up.

      I especially liked how Diaz was utilized this year as a rookie – at first he pitched in the highest leverage situations then closed games out.

      Sure, I agree Stickland should have been booted as closer earlier than he was, but he was sadly probably one of our five best bullpen pitchers this year.

      • Chris Holbert

        Last year Barrero, was used sparingly, and as UT and in CF, seriously. Let’s be honest why were Solano and Reynolds getting regular playing time, and out of position, also, and not to mention “Farm Dog”. If Votto and Moose had not been injured they also would have been in there on a regular basis.

      • Still a Red

        and for better or worse…available (i.e. not injured)…that said, I definitely cringed whenever Strickland was brought in…could someone else have been brought? Yeah probably…but those decisions are 3-dimensional in time and space…you always have upcoming games and matchups to consider. and who was used yesterday.

        Look, I’m not a Bell apologist. Is Bell a good manager? I suspect he’s average. I suspect for every bad decision he made, he made a good one. Like it or not perhaps a manager’s most important quality is to keep the team together in the locker room, especially when things aren’t going well. What actually happens on the field is on the players. To a large extent player development occurs elsewhere, in the minors and with the coaches. Is he a Dusty Baker, with years of baseball wisdom to impart to younger (and older) players? No.
        I suspect Bell will be on a short leash next year. He’ll be gone in May if there’s another 3-20 start. If not some substantial improvement in team record, he’ll be gone when his contract expires.

      • J

        “Like it or not perhaps a manager’s most important quality is to keep the team together in the locker room, especially when things aren’t going well.”

        To what end? If the result of a team being kept together when things aren’t going well is that things continue not going well, then who is it helping? Is the manager’s job to win games or is it to make sure all the players feel happy? My sense is that Bell is more interested in latter, and he just hopes it pays off somehow, whereas successful managers are more interested in the former.

        Perhaps the best way to keep things together when things aren’t going well is for the players to have faith that things are likely to get better because the manager will make smart decisions. When things are going badly and the younger guys see a terrible (and very out of shape) older player getting lots of playing time because he makes lots of money, is that really good for morale? Does it make anyone play better or work harder? Hard to imagine.

      • VaRedsFan

        WKU is correct. For the most part, the rookies played. The 2 biggest names, Steer and Barrero made about 90% of the starts. The other young players (outfielders) also go a lot of playing time. Senzel was given a large chance to sink or swim.

        Nearly the entire bullpen was awful…counting both the guys that started in MLB and the ones they called up because of injury or ineffectiveness.

  37. Old-school

    Bobby Nightengale with some illuminating news on Reds plans.

    1. ) team to start 2023 will be very similar to team that ended 2022
    2.) No major roster changes through FA or trades
    3.) budget will not go up, could be less,
    4.) focus is on developing younger players at the MLb level and team will be much younger in 2023, although not as much perhaps to start the year. No one has guaranteed position though. They will have to earn it.

    Run it back Reds.

    Krall will have a black slate in 2024.

    • wkuchad

      For #4, I hope we don’t bring up the young guys until they’re ready.

    • DataDumpster

      Yea, not surprising but a tough, honest message. I’m gaining even more respect for Krall. Better to hear this than the nonsense headlines on the MLB site: “After tough ’22, excitement building for Reds’ future”, “Reds like what’s up ahead.”
      Bell doesn’t come out of this unscathed either. Upon hire, he replaced hitting coach Don Long with uppercut guru Turner Ward but everything but home runs declined so he got fired. His old buddy from SF (Zinter) was brought in with his underling Donnie Ecker (to become the newly created Director of Hitting) until the team set the all time MLB lowest (.212) BA. Donnie and the Director position disappeared soon thereafter and now Zinter takes the final hit.
      It also seems interesting how many trades/pickups we had with SF players “nurtured” by Bell in his Player Development role. We received Aramis Garcia, John Osich, Hunter Strickland and Derek Law. In the same timeframe, SF received Wandy Peralta, Disco, Kevin Gausman, Alex Wood and Curt Casali.
      (Draw your own conclusions on how that worked out).

      • Still a Red

        meah…Reds 4-2 vs Giants. St. Louis 4-3. Cubs, Brewers, Pirates all losing records against Giants this year.

      • DataDumpster

        The point is that the CIN players performed poorly under Bell and were let go/traded to Bell’s previous team SF where they all did very well in 2021. With the opposite situation, the guys we got that Bell was familiar with in SF had much less success here although Strickland finds some favor at least in game appearances.

    • Votto4life

      Makes me want to run out and buy a 2023 season ticket.

    • VaRedsFan

      I’m good with that. There’s no sense in starting a new plan (2022), only to abandon it by the end of the year. Stay the course, they don’t need to sign any middling free agents to multi year deals. 1 year deals, then flip at the deadline. Clean palette to paint on in 2024.

      Stay the course Krall.

  38. west larry

    for my money, those replaced would be as follows:
    Bob and Phil C.
    Bell
    Moose. Farmer, Aquino, Senzel .
    Strickland, Wilson.

  39. Chris Holbert

    Looking through the Reds stats. How in the world does Aquino have a WAR of 1.4? Third highest on the team counting TS and Drury. can you really put stock in that stat?

    • Jimbo44CN

      A lot of people on this site wish Aquino would go. I understand the frustration, but be careful what you wish for.