The Chicago Cubs were up 6-1 in the third inning and ran Reds starter Graham Ashcraft from the game before he could complete the inning. Connor Overton came on and pitched the rest of the way, but the Cincinnati offense never got going after Jake Fraley’s go-ahead home run in the top of the 2nd inning. The loss was the 17th in the Reds last 21 games, leaving them with a 60-97 record with five games to play as they chase down the 1982 Cincinnati Reds record of 101 losses.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cincinnati Reds (60-97) |
1 | 4 | 1 |
| Chicago Cubs (71-86) |
6 | 8 | 0 |
| W: Sampson (4-5) L: Ashcraft (5-5) |
|||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
The Offense
Cincinnati got on the board first when Jake Fraley led off the top of the 2nd inning with a home run. The next time the Reds made any sort of threat on offense was in the 7th inning when it was 6-1. Jake Fraley and Donovan Solano led off the inning with singles, but back-to-back ground outs – with the final one being a double play – stranded two men on the bases. They wouldn’t get another runner on the bases until Fraley, once again, got his job done with a 2-out single int he 9th inning. He would be stranded there as the game ended on a strikeout.
The Pitching
After a perfect first frame, things fell apart quickly for Graham Ashcraft. The Cubs would score three runs against him int he 2nd inning to take a 3-1 lead. In the next inning they score three more runs against him before he was replaced with two outs in the inning by Connor Overton. It was 6-1 at that point and a runner was still on, and Overton walked the first batter he faced to put two men on, but a fly out to center would mercifully end the inning. Overton would finish the game, giving up just two hits in 5.1 innings of shutout relief where he walked a batter and had three strikeouts. He did his job about as well as one could ask, but the early deficit and the lack of much offense doomed the Reds to a 6-1 loss.
Notes Worth Noting
With five games remaining and 97 losses in the books, the Reds trail just the 1937 and 2015 Reds (98 losses), the 1934 Reds (99 losses), and the 1982 Reds (101 losses). That 1934 team that lost 99 games had a winning percentage of just .344 because they only played 152 games that season.
Connor Overton lowered his ERA on the season to 2.73.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Cincinnati Reds vs Chicago Cubs
Saturday October 1st, 2:20pm ET
Nick Lodolo (4-7, 3.75 ERA) vs Drew Smyly (7-8, 3.48 ERA)
Place yer bets! Place yer bets!
Can the ol’ Redlegs go 3-2 in the final 5 games against the Cubs and avoid 100 losses?
The thrilling ending to the Reds 2022 season continues tomorrow, same Bat-Time, same Bat-Channel!
I found 2 Pennie’s when cleaning my car. I’ll put them on No, they won’t do it.
I think the bigger question is “will they win any of the remaining 5 games at all?” Sad to say, but I have not seen much in the way of enthusiasm of effort for the last week or so. My wager is that they finish the season 60-102.
That seams most likely to me.
100 losses are almost assured now. The Reds trail a very bad Cubs team by 11 games.
Anyone thinking this team is going to be competitive in 2024 is delusional. Maybe by 2034 perhaps, if the Castellinis sell the team soon and the new owner is interested in winning.
It seems, with compliments to TS Eliot, that the Reds season is ending “not with a bang, but a whimper”.
If the Reds start 3-22 and finish 4-22 or 5-21, will that be bad enough to get Bell, zinter and company fired?
We all wish that. But few of us actually expect it. It’s not Bell’s fault, don’t you know? It’s a coincidence that he loses everywhere he manages.
You’re overestimating how much a manager affects the win/loss record.
@Amarillo
+1
Actually, no, I’m not. And look at Bell’s history. He’s never been a winning manager.
LDS has been right all along about David Bell.
Yes, the Reds are a bed team, but David Bell is also a bad manager. Both thing can be true at the same time.
Do you really think another manager would do better with this roster? I could care less if its Bell or some other shmuck in there, the players are the ones playing the game. Whatever manager you think they’ll hire instead is just going to do the same things Bell does that you dont like.
@2020, yes, unequivocally, a better manager would win more with this roster. Simple things like fundamentals, accountability, etc. would make significant difference in the outcome.
Do you know what Sparky Anderson, Leo Durocher, Tommy Lasorda, Joe Torre, Connie Mack, Lou Piniella, Joe Maddon, and Buck Showalter have in common? They all have a season with 99 losses or more.
So, that means what? You haven’t addressed the lack of fundamentals, motivation, accountability, etc. You’re simply rationalizing with weak equivalences with other managers that lost a lot of games in a season. Read the article on Redsminorleagues. Bell took Louisville to a losing record after six consecutive winning seasons. He was promoted to Louisville despite a losing record the prior 3 years. It’s good to have connections when one doesn’t have talent.
I did read it, and I’m not claiming Bell is a good manager. If we had the best manager in baseball, our team still loses over 90 games. MLB managers don’t effect the standings that much.
Does your manager affect your performance? Your response suggests that you think baseball/sports is somehow different from other professional endeavors. It isn’t. Many here think it is. Again, it is not.
@ Amarillo – they all are (unlike Bell) proven winners too. More often than not they did. The biggest question to me is not so much what a manager would do with this lineup but what would one do with the next good roster. Do we want Bell around during that “window” and most likely find out that he really isn’t a good manager therefore wasting at least a good chunk of what little time we have to win? Since our “windows” are so short here in Reds land the answer to that for me is DEFINITELY NOT. David Bell has never won wherever he’s gone. I have no confidence that he would in the future. One might say it really doesn’t matter right now who is managing. i disagree. We have a new crop of talent coming soon with some already here. A new manager should be a part of that growing process learning/teaching how to win.
I dont give two “birds” what his record was in the minors, that is being way overblown, as is the record of the minor league teams. All that matters to me are whether there are impact players coming out of the system.
I have no idea why you think theres no accountability or motivation problems, youre just assuming that since you cant actually know. This team isnt unmotivated, its just a bad team. The lack of fundamentals has always been my primary complaint, hopefully whatever manager they might hire instead could bring more of that element to the team.
And also I have no idea what “teaching to win” means. Wins are a result of productive players, something this team lacks of. Bells technically had a winning record 2 out of 4 seasons, all with a front office that is hesitant to contribute.
This is why LDS is an idiot,he completely ignores the fact that this is by far the weakest team in mlb because he has some other issue with Bell.Lds is a spoiled brat whose ignorance has grown old
I’m going to leave your comment unedited just so I can say that this kind of reply isn’t going to fly here. Disagere with LDS all you want. Don’t make the disagreement personal by calling someone an idiot or a spoiled brat.
he was a winning manager in 2020 and 2021.
professional sports, while sharing some characteristics of other businesses, are manifestly different. to wit: you’re the general manager of a trucking company and ownership, aligning spending with resources, elects to stop maintaining or upgrading the fleet. most of the trucks don’t run, but you send out the ones that do. your drivers return without completing their deliveries and report that your competitors were waiting outside the gates in armored trucks that they used to ram yours. when a ballplayer is sent up to hit, a talented athlete is, in the moment, working to stop him and has the assistance of eight teammates. in other businesses, your competitors aren’t in your facility preventing your employees from doing what you tell them.
@Burtgummer01, I won’t get into a credentialism battle with you. Nor will I resort to calling you names. While many here may even agree with your assessment, trust me, I’m more than confident of mine. Believe it or not, high school sports are not the pinnacle of human achievement. This thread has gone on too long and isn’t productive. I would suggest that those who think I’m wrong, look at other major league organizations that take winning more seriously. The contrast is stark.
Whats a credentialism battle? Sounds simply like a battle of egos
Those teams have better players, just from a quick glance. Not sure the point youre trying to make.
Castellini will reward Bell and staff with a hefty raise. I’m sure of it. Castellini extended Bell last year when the team fell apart after the break.
Really strange timing for that extension, I’m still confused by it. Why you wouldn’t have him finish the year out, especially in the middle of a wild card berth collapse, shows me the FO isnt fit to make those sorts of decisions.
Absolutely NOT!
I think Ashcraft has one more start? I think I’d give it to Overton and let Ashcraft pick up a couple of relief appearances in the last 5 games. Just to give him a few short stints to work it out. The Reds need him starting next year. And going into the offseason with potentially 3 bad starts since returning seems like a counterproductive approach. Overton is more expendable.
I’d rather he got more innings, not less.
Understand the thinking but I think short 1-2 inning appearances that are successful would be a good thing. Regardless, with 5 games left and pitching today, Bell would give him at most 2 appearances/innings, so what the H, start the last game.
ummm, Ashcraft has had a couple short stings – he’s been shellacked in both of them. Time to shut him down and let him develop a better off-speed pitch.
Why in the world are you shutting him down, especially if you think he needs to work on something? Ridiculous.
I can only imagine how Ashcraft would react if you tried to tell him he was shut down. He’d think you were joking.
What was the season average of the nine batters that started today? .210? How could they possibly win?
Guessing today was a bigger appearance for Overton than for Ashcraft. Unless the Reds decide to spend some money on a free agent RH starting pitcher, Overton or Anderson one but not both are likely to rate an MLB contract offer. Overton despite his age is a pre-arbitration eligible player. Anderson will be a service-time free agent. That sounds like a no-contest situation in Overton’s favor given the performance today.
Would like to have both Overton and Anderson back. Both have given us professional innings compared to numerous others who had no business being given innings but were due to record injuries to pitchers this year.
It’s good to have change of pace guys from the young flame-throwers we have.
I’m fine with them as pitching depth, something this team typically needs. Hopefully better options emerge.
I agree as things stand now it would be good to have both for depth.
However since Anderson will become a free agent unless signed to a contract while Overton will remain under team control unless non-tendered or waived for outright assignment, I suspect the Reds may spend the 40 man roster slot on Overton to be sure of retaining him on the cheap.
Other than the opportunity cost of the 40 man roster slot, it would be very inexpensive to maintain control of Overton until the Reds saw how pitching for 2023 was lining up. As a pre-arbitration guy, Overton’s contract would not be guaranteed. The Reds could release him well into spring training for only a fraction of the full face value (which would be likely under $750K). Alternatively, they could keep him and option him to the minors where his salary would be around $120K unless he was called up.
Once Anderson is a free agent, he could be immediately signed to a minor league deal for 2023; but, he has probably pitched well enough in the last month, the Reds may not be his only, preferred, or best option.
Reds should get a very good pick in the 2023 draft, perhaps elite franchise player as several players pretty strong if drafting in the top 5.
The big issue for 2023 is clearly it isnt a winning window year. Krall traded Suarez/WInker/Mahle/Castillo/ and Gray. Other than Steer, the young players acquired plus the in house minor league prospect wont be ready in 2023. They will have to acquire some SP and a catcher and an OF and bullpen for a 26 man roster.
Will they go with 1 year cheap old vets and AAAA players to replay 2022 again? Or, will they spend money on multi-year guys at key positions that make 2023 a transition year to a winning window but provide value in 2024+ also.
-sign a 2 year catcher for good money( Houston FA Catcher) to pair with TS
-sign a good lefty SP to a multi-year deal( Tyler Anderson Dodgers ) is having a great season and projects as a lefty who can sustain things.
-sign 2 good bullpen arms to multi-year deals.
-sign a lefty bat( Joc Peterson) crushes righties and would have a field day in GABP as a platoon partner
-trade a prospect for a controlled young bullpen arm on a bad team that doesnt want to pay arbitration raises( AJ PUK Oakland).
Good ideas. Reasonable upgrades that fit where the Reds are in their competitive cycle and budget.
I like what you’re saying but why would Tyler Anderson go from perhaps the best team in baseball to perhaps the worst? The Reds could get a fading veteran on a one-year contract trying to get his career going again. However, the Reds are only going for guys working on the cheap. Probably looking at signings like Pham and Drury last year. All well and good, but they will still be terrible next year. Any good veteran will be traded by the August deadline. It would be near-miraculous if the Reds avoid 100 losses next year.
Bobby, totally agree. If Doug’s post speculating about Luis Castillo’s choosing not to extend in Cincinnati is correct, no free agent worth signing is going to sign, and no controllable player worth extending is going to sign an extension.
There seems to be a non zero chance of a replay of the pre Cherington Pirates’ misadventures with overpaying for bad free agents, or maybe the Orioles back when Angelos was meddling with the team. Syd Thrifft once famously said he was trying and failing to sign free agents in Baltimore during a rebuild, but it was like they were offering Confederate money. Maybe this is just pessimism run amok but it FEELS like something this is coming. History repeats.
I saw a projection that had Anderson signing for 2 years and 22 million. Money talks.
Perhaps his value has gone up now that he looks like a post-season pitcher in the Dodgers SP rotation but the general approach is find a solid vet at the 8-12 mil AAV for 2 years that gives you experience, proven innings, a mentor for the young pitching, but also is part of a winning plan in 2024. I am sure there are several other credible FA pitchers that fit that profile.
Pederson seems redundant if we already have Fraley, but with the DH you can find ABs for them. They need an OF, SP, and a BP if the want to push for a wild card next year, so I’m mostly in agreement with your assessment.
The most pleasant moments of the game were when my phone lost reception and I didn’t get to listen.
Overton was a bright spot on a dark day.
David Bell as manager is now approaching Pete Rose as the #2 most polarizing issue in Redlegnation. No, hes not why they are losing 100 games this year. Yes, he has a terrible 4 year record and coached a lot of talent in 2020/21 with Cy young’s and silver sluggers and all stars and Venezuelan all time home run king and an incredible 2020 pitching staff. He couldn’t manufacture 1 run in 20+ innings when it mattered. 4 years is a long time. I dont read anywhere people defending Bryan Price. Why? He had far less talent than Bell did? If Price wasnt the guy either, why is Bell? You cant have your cake and eat it too. If Bell is so polarizing after 4 years and a loser, isnt it time to bring RLN together and unify behind our next field general to lead us out of this abyss. We are a nation of Reds fans after all and Bell will never be the manager that unites this great fandom. It’s time to transition out of this awfulness and give Reds fans hope.
uniting the fandom is probably low on a manager’s list of responsibilities. and besides, we–the people who comment on rln–have turned on every manager. i’m far from certain that price had any rosters that were worse than this year’s, and you omit mention of how bad last year’s bullpen was and how many injuries to key players the team suffered and how futile castillo was for the first part of the season.
Sometimes its time for change. 4 years is a reasonable time frame. It depends upon how the Reds view 2023. If they look at it as a transition to a winning 2024 and they are investing in the bullpen, SP, catching, and a few bats on multi-year deals to bridge things until the prospects in the lower and middle minors mature, time for a new manager with a new voice. IF 2023 is more of the same, AAAA utility guys and 1 year vets on there last leg and an army of 5th outfielders and no bullpen or second catcher, then bring him back. But according to the logic of no manager matters (See Philadelphia Phillies, 2022 turnaround) LDS would be just as good too.
There’s merit to the arguments of many that the propensity of poor outfield cutoff throws and poor baserunning and sloppy defense and throwing to the wrong base and poor execution on advancing runners to scoring position with less than 2 outs is something under the responsibility of the manager and Reds don’t play clean fundamental baseball or execute things well.
“A whole lot of losing in the minor leagues
The Cincinnati Reds minor league season is officially over and the farm system finished well below .500 in 2022. Only two of the six teams finished with a winning record. It was the 13th time in the last 15 seasons that the farm system finished below .500 and they haven’t even been close in any of those 13 losing seasons.”
To me this is a complete and utter disaster. It’s devastating to this fan. Yes, the Reds had a winning record last season but because of the September meltdown did it feel like one? Not to me. It ended in a nightmare.
The Reds for many years have had high draft choices and traded much of their MLB talent for young players with supposed potential. How in the heck has the minor league system been so futile?
For anyone who endorses staying the course at any level (major and minor leagues) I don’t get it. The Reds have a losing culture – the players who come up through the system have been exposed to near nonexistent success. This has to end or the Reds are going to turn into another St. Louis MLB club – the Browns! Rip this baby out by the roots and start with all new management. After seeing what I quoted from Doug Gray above, I have zero faith the organization can development the minor league talent we have. None, nada.
From the Reds down to the DSL, the organization is 90 games below .500. 90 games. PLEASE, somebody look it up. Is any organization anywhere close to this?
White Sox 80 under, Diamondbacks 89 under, Royals 112 under, As 143 under. So we’re third worst.
You know (well, of course you know, you brought it up), Pete, that is a very telling insight into the Reds organization.
Yes, Bell is NOT a good ML manager. But then, there is something larger going on in the Reds organization. Something not good. Something definitely…incompetent.
For all the big talk over the years from Bob and Phil, and whatever other skills they might have, they (and the rest of the owner’s group of the Reds), hold a great deal of responsibility for the Reds being flat out lousy ….for years.
We can talk endlessly about how bad David Bell is as the Reds’ manager, but remember somebody chose him and hired him. Who were those guys?
Yes, I think there is something missing as a manager in David Bell. He may indeed be a smart guy, and maybe the players like him. But what matters are results.
I see a lot of bad results, from the top to the bottom of the Reds organization.
This is a serious and not a rhetorical finger-pointing remark.
What is really wrong with this team, this organization? Why has it been so consistently bad?
David Bell doesn’t run the instructional league, the Low A, High A, AA and AAA teams. And I can’t believe that all the team managers at all levels are just so incompetent and losers.
Reds are ending the year the way they started it. They are 4-17 over the last 21 games. But at the beginning of the year they were playing and losing to good teams. Now they are losing to really bad teams. But I guess that is going to happen when you are playing your young guys in an extended tryout to see what you have for the future. We have 3-4 guys in the lineup every night that have batting averages under .200. The offense just isn’t there with the guys they are puttig out there, And the injury to Stephensen is an absolute killer and exposed the incredible lack of depth the Reds have at the position. I am not as down on the Reds future as some here. They have a pretty good core of young pitchers. The Bullpen can be improved dramatically if Antone comes back and they get just a couple of pieces. They have a few guys that need to go. I think they are learning who they want to be in their future plans and just as important who they are going to let go. They have some nice talent in the minors. I don’t think next year is going to be great by any meants but I do hold out hope the Reds will be competitive the following year.
I think most disappointing things to me are three-fold;
1) we gave at bats to young players and they didn’t seize the opportunity – Aquino, Barerro and Lopez are all way below average offensively.
2) Young players we were counting on to produce had terrible seasons – Senzel & India. Those 2 were being heavily counted on.
3) Bullpen was atrocious for 3rd year in a row. Absolutely horrible except for Diaz.
Corollary to #1>>> Disappointing that Fairchild, a guy who came up from AAA and has matched his AAA performance (>.850 OPS) at MLB to date has been jacked around and not left in the lineup every day to see if he can maintain this performance.
It’s mind boggling.
Besides the awful performance on the field, you have to look at the other aspects of the organization where the manager is responsible or at least sets the tone. David Bell came in 2019 and stressed a consistent approach to training and development across all levels of the organization, increased emphasis on player’s “well being, biometric health data, yoga and mental health initiatives, etc.” and his unique monotonic approach and attention to each player getting maximum positive encouragement and opportunity.
Four years later, the team has not thrived with good players or bad and the team is not ready at the beginning of the season and gives up near the end. The highly touted farm system has not produced good records or MLB ready players, injuries are at crisis levels, and the team cannot compete with the worst teams now. Nobody expected a winning team this year (preseason projection of 77 wins) but not this embarrassing debacle.
If the ownership did not get the wake up call at the beginning of the season, they won’t have an answer for replacing Bell at the end of this season. We will see if the ownership can go beyond the insular ways of the past to at least get a new manager who will insist on good fundamental play and accountability, improve training and development methods, and at least put a respectable product on the field in the interim before the considerable prospect capital matures.
Really ?? So it;s Bells fault that the Reds and all the minor league teams are terrible.Firing Bell accomplishes nothing as long as it’s still the same ownership.How did Dusty and Price do under this owner ??
Open your eyes
@burt…, I don’t think I have ever replied to you because your comments rarely provide analysis or introspection but favor invective and “shouting.” But, I do agree with you that ownership is pretty insular and ineffective but we have no choice in that matter. That doesn’t mean that better field management and prospect development can improve the team beyond the horrific mess it is now. Look at Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Cleveland for just some recent examples.
Another meaninglessness loss by the Reds as they limp toward the offseason. In my view, the season was forfeited in early May when a change in field management was not made after the horrible start. A shakeup from the top down and new direction is needed to revitalize the Red’s franchise.
Recall the long time axiom that managers get fired because all the players can’t be replaced? Now, look at the Reds. They have gone through somewhere between 65-70 players this year, but the manager and all the coaches are still around. ‘Nuff said.
Only 3 of the 9 starting position players from opening day are on the current 40 man roster (2 out of the organization; 4 on 60day IL). Of the 5 pitchers used that day only 1 is on the current 40 man roster (1 out of the organization; 3 on 60 day IL). Here’s the link for details:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ATL/ATL202204070.shtml
Here is the link to the Reds 40 man roster and 60 day IL list. Scroll on down the page for a look at all the players that have appeared with the Reds during the 2022 season. By cross referencing the two, a person can get a rough approximation of the folks who are no longer in the organization or at least not on the current 40 man roster.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ATL/ATL202204070.shtml
Maybe someone would be inspired to find an opening day 40 man roster to close the loop?
ERRRGGGH! too early in the morning! I forgot to switch the pasted links! Here is the 40 man roster page and list of everyone who has appeared for the Reds in 2022
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/2022-roster.shtml
Jim: the reds did indeed fire lots of players this year, but the replacements were not improvements–were, in many cases–worse. the reds will be better when they have better players.
@greenmtred>>> Imagine in an alternate universe, as the trading deadline approached, the Reds realized that in Greene, Lodolo and Ashcraft, they had makings of a “big 3” top of the rotation.
Then instead of moving Castillo for talent so far down stream from MLB, they bundled him with anyone in their farm system not named EDLC and returned an MLB player of similar age stature and contract/ control situation as Stephenson or India? And then they did the same with Mahle.
They would have been instantly in a position to contend for a playoff spot over the next 4 years.
I take your point, Jim, but don’t wholly agree with your assessment: subtracting Castillo and Mahle and much of the talent from a well-rated farm system in exchange for a couple of good MLB players sounds like a lateral move that would have left major weaknesses intact. You’re plan might conceivably fix the infield or the outfield, but not both. And they still would have been short of starting pitching and would still have the worst bullpen in the game.
@greenmtred>> I hear you but think addressing those needs is what the offseason is about.
With a little luck Santillan comes back as a serviceable bullpen or backend starter.
Then pick up several arms in the mid level FA market. Mpreta looks serviceable too. Hang onto Overton.
And then there is the guy I said I would not trade, EDLC, who could be ready by midseason.
To me, it is a less risky plan than the one they have embarked on.
When is the last time a team traded a productive, pre-arb position player? It takes two teams to make a deal. Those types of deals just don’t happen.
no question that betting the future almost exclusively on prospects is risky, Jim. but the team has enough weaknesses to make trying to address them with players they could reasonably acquire feel pretty risky, too. They might be able to achieve respectable mediocrity that, way, perhaps even be a fringe wild card contender–depending on the development of the young pitchers–but in a few years they’d be fading and have a bare cupboard in the minors. Ownership needs to spend some bucks.
I’m definitely not a fan of Bell but this year’s team was doomed from the start. His contract runs through 2023 so I’d be surprised if he didn’t return for one more run.
However, if he bats Votto 4th again year, I’ll be the vanguard on his firing.
If there is no change in principal ownership this offseason, DB will definitely be back in 2023 as the manager and perhaps years after that. Bell has a very good contact in the front office.
You are both probably right about Bell returning but I am holding onto the slim hope that this latest collapse along with the realization that training methods may be leading to an injury uptick and poor player development may force a change. Bell does have Buddy in the front office but unfortunately he may be relying on more advice from Buddy’s abysmal management record (.418) than his remarkably low strikeout record as a player (8%).
Maybe his Buddy should try the carpet business? 😉