If you missed the news this afternoon, Luis Castillo signed a 5-year extension with the Seattle Mariners worth $108,000,000. There’s also a $25,000,000 vesting option for a 6th season (what would make this option vest has not yet been released) according to ESPN’s Jeff Passan. Cincinnati reportedly engaged with Castillo in extension talks before trading him and according to Bobby Nightengale’s story at the Cincinnati Enquirer the talks didn’t get very far.

The question we all have to ask now is what the heck were the Reds offering before they decided to instead trade him to the Mariners? Luis Castillo signed a contract that is basically the equivalent deal that the team handed to Homer Bailey a decade ago. But as things stand today, the Reds are bringing in a whole lot more money now than they were then. Every team in baseball can afford a contract like this, even if some of them choose not to do so.

And it’s not as if Cincinnati doesn’t have a bunch of money to work with, no matter how anyone wants to look at it. Half of the money owed to Luis Castillo next year comes off of the books with Mike Minor’s deal. Then in 2024 they lose the Mike Moustakas contract money and potentially $14M of Joey Votto’s money if they decline his option. There is mountains of money available to be spent moving forward.

Is it possible that Luis Castillo looked at the Reds franchise and what’s been going on and said no to an offer that was similar to the one that the Mariners offered? Sure, that’s possible. He was in the midst of a season where his team was playing beyond terrible where Phil Castellini kicked off the season by insulting the fanbase, and perhaps the players themselves with his whole “be careful what you wish for” and “where you gonna go” statements on Opening Day. The team had taken a playoff team in 2021 and gave away a key starting for nothing after the year in Wade Miley, they traded catcher Tucker Barnhart, then opted to begin spring training by trading away Sonny Gray, Eugenio Suarez, and Jesse Winker.

Castillo went from a franchise that through their actions was saying “we aren’t even pretending to try and win baseball games” to a franchise that is doing the exact opposite. Are the Reds cheap? Yeah, maybe there are. Is that why Luis Castillo signed an extension somewhere else? Maybe. But perhaps it’s also because of the fact that one organization showed that they not only want to win, but that they are actively trying to (and succeeding in it) while the other seemed to go in the opposite direction.

70 Responses

  1. Jim Walker

    Going to suppress all my verbose urges and just say,

    AMEN Brother Doug

    • LDS

      Hard to suppress but I’m with you. I think that underlies the Castellanos move as well.

    • Bubba Woo

      I’m firmly in the “Sell the team, Bob” camp. That said, I’m OK with this. Signing a pitcher with the injury history of Castillo, past 30, is almost always a mistake. Homer Bailey’s contract was a disaster, as was Cueto’s for the Giants. The smarter play for a team like the Reds is to buy out the arbitration years for the young pitchers they have now, and tack on a couple of years.

      • Luke J

        Yep. The Reds should not have offered that contract during a rebuild. The return they got for Castillo was significant, and the likelihood of Castillo being as valuable when the Reds can compete at the end of that contract are low. When you’re rebuilding, sell high. I think those who would be in favor of that contract are actually just not in favor of rebuilding.

      • Jack

        Injury history? He has been very durable for a pitcher.

      • Michael E

        Not much of injury history, BUT a notorious slow starter. You can’t have many of those on your team unless you want to be 15 GB after two months and playing catch up.

        I think he just doesn’t pitch well when its consistently below 80 degrees. Will see if he struggles in chilly October if they make the playoffs and play in a cool weather game or three.

      • Redsvol

        Hated to see Castillo go but I don’t think a team like the Reds should be paying a pitcher $25M. Pitchers are 1 arm injury from missing 12-18 months and becoming a shell of themselves. I’m actually ok paying a position player this amount because they are potentially affecting every game.

        In saying that, I believe we have 3 stud rookie pitchers that we need to try and extend and buy out 1-2 of their arbitration years asap before they accumulate too many good years and get expensive.

      • Redsvol

        Hated to see Castillo go but I don’t think a team like the Reds should be paying a pitcher $25M. Pitchers are 1 arm injury from missing 12-18 months and becoming a shell of themselves. I’m actually ok paying a position player this amount because they are potentially affecting every game.

        In saying that, I believe we have 3 stud rookie pitchers that we need to try and extend and buy out 1-2 of their arbitration years asap before they accumulate too many good years and get expensive.

  2. DaveCT

    My thoughts exactly. Our young players have to be very, very encouraged.

    • Mark Moore

      Don’t they though? I mean they can probably look forward to being traded away during arb years rather than locked into anything, right?

      Smack My Head So Very Hard!!!

  3. VaRedsFan

    Is that 5 additional years added onto the 1 year he had left?
    Or are they buying out his last year of control?

    The Mariners made a good choice. Luis is only 29, so they should be getting at least 4 more years of peak performance. Hopefully he stays healthy.

  4. Old-school

    What this says about 2023 is the Reds are blowing it up. They read the tea leaves of the Moose and Akiyama and Votto contract’s and said start over. They will sign some vets on 1 year deals in the off-season as filler. I hope they sign Jon India this off-season to an extension like the Braves have done. Why not? You’ve got all this money. Spend now on guys who part of the future at reasonable costs.

    Give India 7 years and $75 mil this off-season through his prime years.

  5. Mark Moore

    Yep. I think it’s parts who wants to go for it and how wide they will open their checkbook. Well written once again, Doug. It’s stuff like this and this site that make our misery a little more palatable.

  6. Optimist

    Actually, it’s even worse (or better on how you consider this) than Homer’s contract – Homer’s was for 6 years, and include a discount for inflation since then. IOW, Seattle signed Luis for likely a season’s salary less than what the Reds paid Homer.

    Sure, these are risky deals, but even if Luis flattens out and dips in performance this is likely a bargain. Without losing a lot of time to injury, and any level of consistency, this is a steal.

    I suspect the Reds’ offer got close, but for a year or two less, and corresponding lower value.

    Good for Luis. Well earned.

    • Jim Walker

      I’m thinking I saw an article in the Enquirer (Cincinnati {dot} com) that quoted Castillo’s agent as saying they never really got around to talking money because it was clear which way the Reds intended to go.

      • Optimist

        Hello Jim – that refutes my point, but in a way it also confirms it. Both sides likely knew what was coming so why bother with much effort. I wonder if the Reds gave any kinds of heads up to Castillo and agent as to what teams were in play for the trade? That would be a forward thinking good faith move for all concerned.

  7. Tom Mitsoff

    The one and only reason I can give for a rational mindset by the Reds on this one is that Castillo will turn 30 very soon, so the entirety of that contract will be after he is past 30 years of age. Risk is much higher in contracts like that.

    With that being said, what we learned today is that basically, if someone like De La Cruz does become a major league superstar, the Reds’ chances of retaining him past six years are equivalent to zero.

    I said when Suarez and Winker were traded during spring training that the Reds were trying to shape their management style after Tampa Bay’s. But wait — even the Rays gave Wander Franco an 11-year, $182-million contract.

    Today’s news was one of what seems like an endless number of bitter pills to swallow for Reds faithful.

    • Tom Mitsoff

      For those wondering, the Reds currently have only $46.5 million in salaries on their books for 2023: Votto, Moustakas and Griffey Jr. ($3.5 million deferred). That of course does not include the majority of the roster who are still team-controlled and therefore cost-controlled.

      • Tom Mitsoff

        For 2024, there are only club options on Votto and Moustakas (for a total of $40 million) which will almost certainly be declined. So currently, the front office has essentially a clean payroll slate beginning in 2024. How exciting THAT must be for the Castellinis!

      • Jim Walker

        Clearly, since the Reds were committed to $16m for Castellanos in 2022 had he chosen to not opt out, they could have bridged their way to afford him at 5m/$100m. Having not done that, they could have afforded this deal on Castillo. In truth, they could have afforded both given the Miley and Gray moves.

  8. greenmtred

    to be clear, i wish that they had signed him to an extension, but 29-year old power pitchers can’t be counted on; if he stayed largely free of injuries, he might well be good well into his 30’s, but that’s a huge if. we all know that the reds are cheap, but it’s worth remembering that, given the number of promising prospects they have recently acquired, this may actually be a legitimate rebuild. yes, it’s risky to count on prospects, but it’s also risky to count on old pitchers.

    • Tom Mitsoff

      I don’t know the exact statistics on this, but a very small portion of top-ranked prospects even make it to the big leagues, and a small fraction of those actually go on to be difference-makers. Essentially moves like the Castillo trade mean that a player you’ve spent years to develop and who shows that he is a legitimate stopper is traded for a handful of players who MIGHT make the big leagues some day. Organizations that are regularly competitive don’t do this.

      • Amarillo

        I was curious, so I looked up Baseball America’s 2012 top 100 list. Basically an arbitrary year. Out of the Top 100 on that list, 98 of the players made the majors. 33 of those 98 I’d consider difference makers (loosely defined as “I don’t have to look closely at their stats to tell if they are a good player”)

      • Jim Walker

        +1000
        And unless Castillo physically breaks down, this contract will be movable right through to the end because it represents high mid rotation level money now and will be 5th starter money in 6 years.

      • greenmtred

        absolutely right, tom; prospects often fail. but the reds would very likely have been buying castillo’s declining years. teams willing to spend and legitimately contending do that, but the reds at this point fit neither category. there’s also this: even with castillo the reds would have to acquire a significant number of good position players and bullpen arms to be better than mediocre.

    • Tom Mitsoff

      With that being said, I do indeed understand the risky nature of post-age-30 big contracts and why it can be argued that there is rationale in avoiding them.

  9. Daytonnati

    When I saw the terms of the deal on the ESPN crawl, I could not believe it.

    • Jim Walker

      I guess we shouldn’t be surprised by this when they had put their propaganda machine to work trying to convince the world that the Suarez contract wasn’t just a bad deal but so bad they had to surrender Winker too in order to move it. The truth is the Suarez deal was and is a good team deal; and, Winker’s subsequent signing through his arbitration years underscores the affair was nothing but a salary dump.

  10. David

    Personally….sure, I wish the Reds had kept Luis Castillo. Sure, I wish I was in the Reds front office, and could commit to +$100 million dollars for 5 years to pay a player. $100 million dollars is still a lot of money. Even over 5 years.

    Luis could have been the anchor, #1 starter, for the next Reds’ contending team (maybe in 2024?). Or not.
    I am going to take a guess, and say that a couple of the Reds younger stars (Stephenson, India) may get some longer term commitment contracts next year. Or again, maybe not. As most readers here, I don’t think much of the Reds Top Management or their Managing Owner (Bob What’s-his-name). They can continue to mis-manage.

    The worst case was the particular Homer Baily contract, where the Reds thought “shrewdly” that they were buying Homer out prior to his best years. Didn’t turn out that way. Makes Bob What’s-his-name skeptical of the advice of the baseball people.
    The Mariners may come out of this being big winners, or maybe Castillo’s arm goes dead in a couple of seasons. Just like developing young players, there are no sure outcomes. They are taking a calculated risk. And I don’t have their balance sheet for the team in front of me.
    It’s easy for us to declaim the Reds management for being cheap. I don’t have their balance sheet in front of me. And it may be that a lot of teams holding these big contracts, come up bad. I don’t know.
    The star of the Reds trade of Luis Castillo was Noelvi Marte. Highly regarded, but still a few years away from the ML. He may not pan out.
    I hope the Reds have made the right moves, but in an alternate universe, Luis Castillo just signed a five year contract with the Reds. I think that would have made most readers here a lot happier.

  11. Keith

    Think about a starting rotation next year of Castillo, Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft, with any number of possibilities for #5.

    Would have been affordable. Wouldn’t be much to sign a few bays and have a team to sneak into the playoffs, where anything can happen, especially if you have a great rotation capable of shutting down any lineup. Think of home crowds packing the stadium, making Bob’s wallet a little fatter with every $15 beer.

    Could’ve happened, fairly reasonably. The resources were there, are there.

  12. burtgummer01

    There are a couple not smart people here who insist the issue is Bell and the coached maybe this will finally open their eyes

    • Kevin H

      Everyone has their opinion.. Bell isn’t the best by a long shot. A lot is personnel yes, however some is his decision making.

    • VaRedsFan

      If you think Bell is a good manager, then you don’t watch the games. Thus, your eyes are the ones that are firmly shut.

  13. Kevin H

    My thoughts are what Winker said when he was traded. They want to win, “I can’t wait to get Seattle and play for a organization that wants to win” I don’t know if that is 100% of what he said, but close.

    I doubt it, however I may just walk away from the Reds. Root for another team.. Like I said I doubt it though. It is just frustrating…

  14. Brad

    I don’t see this ownership group ever signing anyone long term or anything but low level free agents ever again. They got burned on a few deals and are now scared to spend the money to put a good product on the field. They saw this year that people will come to the ballpark and spend money on a very bad product so why spend money. The Reds are turning into the Cincinnati “Pirates”.

    • Michael E

      The Minor and Moustakas deals were subpar from the get-go. We know that and only the GM/owner thought it made sense. Minor hasn’t been sub 5.00 ERA in a while, so why they even bothered signing him, even if he wanted to pitch for vet minumum (they vastly overpaid), was beyond me. Moustakas was mildly reasonably, but again way too much money/time for an overweight plodding hitter that hadn’t really had a breakout year. He is just a slightly above average power, below average contact/speed guy. Nothing special.

      Akiyama was complete unknown. I didn’t think it was a bad signing, but lets face it, the Reds GM/owner signed a bunch of “maybe we’ll get lucky” deals for less-than-proven hitters/pitchers the past couple of years.

      I am excited for when Votto and Moustakas come off the payroll, BUT I feel like the less-than-wise owner/GM will just sign another Akiyama, Moustakas and two Minors and set the Reds back 5 more years. Instead of signing 4 or 5 FAs, sign 2 really good difference-makers and allow the prospects and some lottery ticket, coming-off-injury cheap signings fill in the depth.

  15. Votto4life

    You seriously have to be blind not to see what the Red’s plan is.

    If you haven’t figured it yet, you just haven’t been following this team very closely the past two years. So here it is:

    1. The Reds will Sign NO multi-year free agents. Sure they will sign players like Tommy Pham every season. Players who are without a team come Spring Training. The Reds will give a player like that maybe $9 million a year for one season. The catch, of course, is they won’t actually pay them $9 million, because they will just trade them after three months.

    2. There will be no extensions for players like Jonathon India, Tyler Stephenson, Hunter Greene or Nick Lodolo.

    They will be traded in their fourth major league season or when they become too expensive with arbitration. So, you can expect to see Tyler Stephenson and Jonathon India dumped in 2024, if not before.

    I don’t know about you but I’m not looking forward to seeing Hunter Greene in Dodger Blue. But it’s going to happen just as sure as GABP gives up home runs.

    But the Reds will trade these players for more prospects, with maybe 20% of these players making the big leagues, only to be dealt, as soon as soon, as they cost the Castellinis a nickel over league minimum.

    This is what the fans of this team has to look forward to for the next decade or so.

    Don’t be sad, we can always come here on RLN to compare and contrast the virtues of TJ Friedl and Stuart Fairchild. Because hey where are you going to go?

    • VaRedsFan

      1. You don’t need to give long term free agent contracts to veterans when you are rebuilding.
      2. The time is probably now, or this off season, to extend India and Stephenson. If the rookie pitchers progress even more next year, then next off season would be a good time to start extending them.

      Krall has put a solid plan in place. At least give him a chance to execute it.

      • Pete

        I would extend India right away. The fans like our friend you’re responding need to be shown a sign that the Reds are committed, his concerns are valid.The Reds would be buying low by signing India deal long-term right now.

        A 6‘4“ catcher is another matter, they need to move him from behind the plate and I would then absolutely offer an extension post taste. We must understand that Stevenson is not a Johnny Bench when it comes to defense. It’s not worth the risk of further injury. There’s probably a good reason the league is not overrun with 6’4” catchers.

      • Votto4life

        There will be no extensions. If you are going to extend anyone, you would have extended at least one of you top two pitchers!

        VaRedsfan, care to make a wager as to whether or not India or Stephenson will be extended by the Reds in a year from now?

        I don’t get how people can be so blind to what this team is doing. RLN has become almost like a cult, believing this team cares about winning. . What will it take for people to open their eyes. No wonder, the Castellinis think they can get by with putting a crappy product on the field. Phil Castellini would be very encourage if he read some of the comments on this forum.

        Thank you sir, may I have another!

      • VaRedsFan

        You’re on!
        Shall we do 2 bits or 4? 😉

      • Vottolife

        VARedsfan,

        Two tickets to the Reds game of your Choice, if the Reds extend India or Stephenson by 9/24/23. No need to buy tickets for me if I win, I won’t do anything that benefits the Castellinis.

    • Amarillo

      They have never once traded a player in his 4th year of control. I don’t why you think they are going to start doing that now.

      • Votto4life

        Oh wow you’re right..they trade them in their fifth year instead. It’s a distinction without a difference. But hey, it’s nice to know we will have an extra few months to root on the Stuart Fairchilds of the world.

  16. docproc

    I agree that our ownership is cheap.
    I agree that Castillo’s contract with Seattle is reasonable.
    But here’s the deal: Starting pitchers play every 5th day. Our team is bereft of impact players who (potentially) play 150 games a year.
    And we had Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft in the (inexpensive) wings.
    If 2 of 4 of Marte, Arroyo, Steer, and Encarnacion-Strand are in our starting lineup by 2024, the unloading of Castillo and Mahle at the deadline was a good roll of the dice.

    • Votto4life

      I’m sorry Docptoc , but undervaluing starting pitchers because “they only pitch every fifth day” is not one of you’re best arguments.

      I respect your baseball knowledge and I always enjoy your posts. I’m sure after reviewing it again, you will agree with me that isn’t one of your best comments.

      Believe me,there are a lot of posts, I would like to have back.

      WE NEED AN EDIT OPTION !!!

    • Redsvol

      I absolutely agree with this @DocProc. Big market teams can deal with a $25M injured pitcher who is out for 12-18 months. A team like the Reds can’t. I do believe the team can ultimately afford a $25M position player. We’re probably a year or two away from needing to spend that money though. 2023 is another development year, unfortunately.

    • AMDG

      You need to look at the # of plate appearances, not the # of games.

      A starting pitcher only pitches every 5th game, but he’s affecting 20~30 plate appearances in that game. The hitter only has about 4 plate appearances in that same game.

      If an every day player gets 4 plate appearances per game, and plays in 150 games, that is 600 Plate Appearances for the season.

      If a good starting pitcher pitches faces 4 batters per IP (essentially a 1.00 WHIP), and only pitches 150 IP, he also affects 600 Plate Appearances.

  17. William

    Mr. Gray wrote another good commentary. I agree with him. Castillo could have been extended by the Reds. They can afford it. I still think there is a plan that should work from 2025-2027. Small market team. Rebuilds are part of their life. The Reds will have to spend to win a championship even with these good young prospects. I do not like the ownership, but remain optimistic.

    • Indy Red Man

      Of course they could’ve afforded Castillo! I don’t even get into the financial stuff normally, but I know they have somewhere in the range of $40 mil coming off the books after 2023 with Joey/Moose alone. $10 mil wasted on Mike Minor this year and everyone knew it coming in but the Reds. Same old same old.

      Tell me that Castillo, Lodolo, HG, and Ashcraft couldn’t have formed atleast a B+ rotation along the likes of Burnes, Woodruff, and Peralta did for Milw. Everyone young staff needs a veteran ace to show them the way!

  18. Klugo

    I sense just a tinge of frustration, maybe even anger.

  19. Old-school

    Instead of hypotheticals, we can actually live in the real world of 2022.

    Sonny Gray- hurt and old and finishing the year on the IL
    Wade Miley-hurt and old and finishing the year on the IL
    Joey Votto- hurt and old and finishing the year on the IL
    MIke Moustakis- hurt and old and finishing the year on the IL
    Tyler Mahle- hurt and finishing the year on the IL
    Tyler Stephenson-hurt and no credible backup catchers
    Tejay Antone- hurt and done for entire year
    Tony Santillan-hurt and done for the year
    Vlad Gutierrez- hurt and done for next year too
    Jose Barrero- not developing
    Nick Senzel- not developing
    Aristides Aquino- ummmm
    Bullpen-horrific
    Akiyama-dead money

    Where is there any indication spending new money at 20 million on a player over 30 for 2023 makes sense and extending that through his age 35 year? Move on to 2024.

    • Votto4life

      Hunter Greene has already had one TJ surgery, so no sense investing in him long term. Tyler Stephenson has been injured a lot this year, is he going to be able to stay healthy? If so, is he worth extending if you have to move him to another position, say 1B, where he will be league average at best? What about Jonathon India should he be extended after an injuryproned and sub par sophomore season?

      The point is, you can find reasons for not signing anyone. Which is exactly what the Castellinis have done the past two seasons.

      • Old-school

        HUnter Greene is young
        Jon India is young
        Stephenson is young
        All are controlled.

        It’s about winning windows.
        Votto contract made sense on production.
        It made no sense if 5 of those years 2014-19 you were in a rebuild with no winning window.

        2023 isnt a winning window nor was 2022. You dont pay huge contracts if you cant win in that window. Refocus on players you can win with and out those resources to that window you win in.

      • jon

        yea, don’t get the rush to extend India.Lets see what happens next season.Same with Stephenson.

    • Votto4life

      I also don’t understand with the whole emphasis on 2024. Why in the world would you think this team is going to be competitive in 18 months??

      • streamer88

        …said the Baltimore Orioles fan in 2021. 😉

      • Votto4life

        steamer88, first of all, the Orioles, have been rebuilding for 8 years or so , not one year,
        like us and besides they are still only in 4th place and are on the verge of being a eliminated from the WC race. So, are they who we aspire to be? We had a better team than the Orioles last season.

  20. Steven Ross

    If he was 25 or 26, I’d say ok but at 29, to give a starter that kind of contract is a huge leap of “hope he stays” healthy faith.

    With that kind of bank, the Reds can address multiple positions & not one who only pitches every 5th day.

  21. Pat

    I know one thing for sure….I am sick of watching Aquino strike out!

    • Greenfield Red

      I would agree. Aquino has had enough opportunity to prove who he is, and who he will be. But, I do believe Barrero needs more time. At least 2023. He did hit well in the minors, and the wrist issue is a big issue.

  22. Ken

    Great story, Doug! Honest to the bone. That’s what journalists should do, and I was one for 30 years. Personally, I couldn’t spend any money with the Reds because they’ve thoroughly proven that winning is not a priority. As Castillo indicates, the Reds’ reputation, so solid for so many years, is at an all-time low. There are other factors beyond awful management that MLB should address. The system makes it almost impossible for small-market teams to consistently compete.

  23. Rob

    To be clear, I always thought Castillo was worth $20-25M for the next 5-6 years. I thought similar about Nick, Geno, and Mahle. No injury history there. I hate to be a broken record but I always believed our primary move should have been Moose and prospect(s) to a rebuilding team. But Krall continues to beat the drum of no prospect trades. OK …..but you have seen the results of that so far with his valued prospects (Barerro, Friedl, Lopez, Santillan, Moretta, Okey, and I am not counting his new haul of Fraley, Williamson, Dunn). There is no in between here. You either trade Luis (and others) or you pay them market value. The Mariners are not any big market team. They just want to win and win soon. Winning to them probably means playoffs and possible excitement and success therein. Sounds a heck of a lot better to me than this no hit AAA team we have rolled out the last 2 months. You really have to be kidding me if Bell thinks guys like Robinson, Papierski, Fairchild, Aquino, Dugger, Anderson, etc. are major leaguers. All were picked up from the scrap heap yet we start these guys alongside our AAA wonders. What is our record since August 1? About 15-20 games under 500 in less than 2 months?

    I don’t know if any of us are privy to the Reds 2023 plan. I am almost certain it has to be much better than this summer version of spring training. I hope tryouts are over for Barerro, Aquino, Lopez, etc. As we have plenty of prospects and plenty of money, I hope we see some real ball players in here next year. A couple guys like Naquin who can hit 250 and bop 25 HRs. A starting pitcher or two who can pitch 180 innings and win 10-12 games. A solid second string catcher who can hit 220 and throw runners out. Not expecting playoffs. Just something closer to 80 wins than 65-70 wins. Show us what a few additions in 2024 might look like.

  24. TR

    Thank you, Doug, for your pointed writeup to summarize this sad season. When a management shakeup did not occur after the 3-22 start, I and other fans knew the will to win was absent from the principal ownership. If changes in regard to management and principal ownership are not forthcoming in the offseason, competing will be much further away than 2024.

  25. Greenfield Red

    I generally play the prospect game, and believe in the Reds accumulating as much high end young talent as possible. If only half pan out, they can compete for a WS in just 3 to 5 years…. however

    With all that supposed talent in the minors, the Reds’ minor league teams will finish this year 50 games below .500 (again), and we are all just looking past the fact that nearly all position players in the minors, EDLC on down, are striking out waaaaaay too much to become the stars we think they will be.

    The pitching is encouraging, although they walk too many guys.

  26. Votto4life

    What I find incredible is the Reds give absolutely no indication they are going to extend their young players or be active in free agency. None, zero, zilch.

    There is however, ample evidence the past two seasons of them taking the complete opposite path. Yet, some in the group, read into it that the Reds have a plan to win. Why?? Nick Krall never said it. All he said was the reds are aligning payroll with resources. No mention of winning.

    The Reds are not lying to us. They have been quite clear what the plan is. They have also been quite clear how they feel about Reds fans (see Phil Castellini’s remarks April 2022).

    They are not lying to us. We are lying to ourselves.

    • JayTheRed

      Amen Brother!!!

      I try hard to be realistic at what this team has right now. It’s a AAA team playing at the major league level. Do a few guys have some potential, YES! Who knows how well Stephanson will come back. India definitely was not as good this season as last year but probably is going to continue to be a good player overall.

      Our starting pitchers I am not sold on yet, Though Lodolo seems pretty solid. Both Ashcraft and Greene have some great potential too. Man, If Overton ends up being a good pitcher like he has shown while not injured, the rotation sure could be nice with the other young players to wait and see on yet.

  27. JayTheRed

    Good pitchers which Castillo is, pitch well into their mid 30’s at least and some really good ones beyond that. I hate how so many here are like oh the guy is past 30. We shouldn’t take the risk. Sorry that mindset means that around 80 percent of the free agents are no longer good players, because this is when most players hit free agency.
    NOTE – I know some make it at age 27-29 too but if you look at the upcoming names for free agents for this coming offseason, I bet there are not a lot of players that fall into that group who are above league average.

    I truly think it would have been fairly safe to sign Castillo for a 5-year deal and he would have been good at the least in all of those seasons, unless he got injured, which we could say with every single player in baseball. I imagine the Reds are going to be pretty bad again in 2023 and maybe slightly better in 2024 before we really start seeing what we have with the current prospects in 2025. So yeah, Castillo would have been a little bit of a waste of money for 23′ and 24′ but by 25 he probably would have been our #3 pitcher which I would be more than happy with assuming Ashcraft, Greene and Lodolo continue to improve.

    It’s going to be a long season next year for sure, 24′ might start seeing some positive direction and 25′ the Reds should be a pretty good team by then. (Again, assuming the prospects turn out good).

  28. Jon

    Why do so many fans on here and on Twitter keep praising Krall for the trades he made at the deadline? This is the same man that thought signing Pham to a $7+ million deal was worthwhile. The same man who threw away $10 million on Minor. And who signed Strickland, Moran and Solano… Only one of those five Major League deals worked out in the Reds’ favor…and even he (Solano) was injured half the year.

    The Reds have developed exactly three Major League caliber hitters through their pipeline over the past decade: Winker, India, and Stephenson. Why do people think things will be different now? This is the same system that brought you Senzel, Barrero, Aquino, Trammell, and countless other prospects of various rankings.