Nick Lodolo struck out 11 batters and had a quality start, but the bullpen fell apart and allowed seven runs in the final 2.2 innings of the game as the Pittsburgh Pirates completed a 4-game sweep of the Cincinnati Reds with a 10-4 victory in Wednesday’s afternoon’s series finale. It was the first time the Pirates have swept the Reds in a 4-game series in 31 years.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Pittsburgh Pirates (55-88) | 10 | 12 | 0 |
| Cincinnati Reds (56-86) | 4 | 8 | 1 |
| W: Beede (2-5) L: Lodolo (4-6) SV: Yajure (1) |
|||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
The Offense
Cincinnati went quietly in the 1st inning, but they got moving in the 2nd when Aristides Aquino doubled and scored on a 2-out single by Spencer Steer to put the Reds up 1-0. After the Pirates took the lead the Reds bats remained mostly quiet until the bottom of the 5th when Austin Romine crushed a 413-foot solo home run into the seats in left center to cut the Pittsburgh lead to 3-2.
Cincinnati was trailing 6-2 heading into the bottom of the 8th inning, but the Reds pulled a little bit closer when Kyle Farmer hit a 1-out solo homer to left field. After the Pirates put up four runs in the top of the 9th to take a 10-3 lead, Cincinnati got a run back after Spencer Steer walked, moved to second on a balk and then to third on a wild pitch before scoring on a ground out.
The Pitching
After an easy inning in the 1st, Nick Lodolo ran into problems in the second. Kevin Newman had a 1-out single and then Lodolo hit Diego Castillo to put two men on. Unfortunately for the Pirates the next two batters were lefties and Lodolo struck them both out to end the inning. The lefty got himself in trouble again the next inning, but this time after two singles he didn’t get himself out of it as he gave up a go-ahead 3-run home run to Rodolfo Castro, making it a 3-1 game.
Lodolo would give up just two more singles in the remainder of his outing that saw him exit after 6.1 innings with 11 strikeouts – his second consecutive double-digit strikeout game. Derek Law entered the game after that and walked the first hitter he faced and as the old saying goes, walks will haunt. And it did as Greg Allen came around to score after a sacrifice bunt and an RBI single by Ke’Bryan Hayes that made it 4-2.
Joel Kuhnel came out of the bullpen for the 8th inning and walked the first batter of the inning. Two outs later Oneil Cruz hit a 2-run homer to make it 6-2. Luke Farrell came on for the 9th and gave up four runs as the Pirates extended their lead to 10-3.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Cincinnati Reds vs St. Louis Cardinals
Thursday September 15th, 7:45pm ET
Chase Anderson (0-3, 9.00 ERA) vs Miles Mikolas (11-11, 3.42 ERA)
I am sure I have seen Little league pitchers better than some of the arm being run out there. I am sure they are trying hard and doing their best but if you can’t even throw strikes maybe you need another line of work. I was amused by the new way of stating that the bullpen blew-up again. It must get hard to say the same thing over and over in a new way to make it sound not as bad.
I should have invested in a thesaurus.
you do just fine, doug.
Again, please fire Bell and whoever elsein management is associated with this dumpster fire! Embarrased to be a Reds fan this season!
The genius lovechild of Sparky Anderson and Branch Rickey couldn’t win with the current roster half made up of AA and AAA players. This isn’t on David Bell.
Thanks, Doug, for writing this. There’s more salary on the disabled list than is on the team. I wasn’t against a single trade they made this year, but it left the Reds with mostly young, inexperienced players. Until the last couple series, the Reds have done better than expected since the trade deadline. To expect them to do better with what they have now is ludicrous.
Agreed. I suppose the lowest of lows was the dismal April record, but this Pirate sweep sure feels like a close second for season lows.
He’s not helping either. Not sure how anyone still defends anyone on the coaching staff.
I agree Hanawi, but obviously they do.
Couldn’t agree more Doug.
I don’t think I’m defending the coaching staff as much as pointing out that this roster thanks to injuries and trades is full of guys that should be in Double-A and Triple-A and that no coaching staff is going to win with Austin Romine catching, Chase Anderson and Luis Cessa starting, Aristides Aquino and Nick Senzel being every day starters in your outfield…. it’s a terrible roster that even pulling all of the right strings right now won’t matter because the team’s talent level just isn’t big league caliber for 15 of the 28 spots on the roster.
I agree. This Reds team (late 2nd half) would not be .500 in AAA ball.
Lots of MLB caliber players were moved in the off season or at the trading deadline. Not many MLB ready players in return but good potential players who are 1-2 years away.
Pete Rose came up in 1963. Tony Perez in 1965. Gary Nolan in 1967. Johnny Bench in 1968. To name a few Big Red Machine stars.
The Big Red Machine didn’t get going until 1970 and wasn’t at its best until 1875 and 1976.
1975. Typo.
Are you suggesting the Reds fire the players? I would NEVER mention Bell in the same sentence with Sparky or Branch Rickey. When sports teams fail, and I think we can all agree this current Reds team is an abject failure, the head coach, manager or whomever is usually fired. I am NOT blaming Bell but a change is warranted! Case in point – University of Nebraska football.
I’m suggesting that changing managers won’t change anything other than making some posters on this website happy for about 7 months until they realize again next year that the roster put together isn’t nearly good enough to win baseball games.
Change for change sake is silly. Fix the problem, which is that the Reds organization right now simply doesn’t have good enough players.
Why are you putting Aquino on the list of Triple A players. He is the best defensive outfielder we have, and starting to figure it out at the plate. Are you suggesting the three Fs( Fairchild, Fraley and Freidel) are better? Sorry, but have to way disagree. Agree on Senzel, he cannot seem to figure it out.
@Jimbo, As 22 gives way to 23, and 23 gives way to 24, I doubt any of the current outfield survives. As Bob Dylan said “the times they are a changing”.
absolutely correct. The coaching staff isn’t great but its the players failure and the failure of the front office in backfilling the 40 man roster properly this off-season.
This organization needs some stability for once. We’ve been thru too many front offices and coaching staffs the last decade.
Its not totally the players fault but they sure could put up a better right the last 10 days. We played teams that on paper are worse than we are.
There are many teams running on fumes right now. Tremendous amount of injuries due to various factors. All one has to do is look at the amount of MLB transactions that are occurring with non-prospects the last 7 days. Teams are struggling to field a competent pitching staff and roster and the Reds aren’t alone in it. There isn’t much to be gleamed from the team’s won-loss record recently or the next 3 weeks.
it isn’t so much that we’re defending the coaching staff as it is that we’re recognizing that coaches can do little with players who aren’t up to the job. the game is, in great measure, about difficult physical execution and telling somebody that they, for instance, need to throw strikes or get a hit won’t change what they are capable of doing. it’s not at all the same as telling an underling to have the sales report on your desk in an hour.
Whenever a team is bad, it means a lot of players aren’t playing well. So, when a team is really bad, it’s always possible to say “no manager could win with these guys.” But at some point I think you have to ask “why are SO many guys playing SO badly at the same time?” Why is NOBODY getting BETTER? (AA has been better for the past few weeks, and maybe Farmer has been better this season, but almost everyone else seems worse.) Why are so many guys stuck in their ruts or regressing? I just have to think there are systemic problems, because this (all the bad hitting and all the bad pitching and all the injuries) seems to be worse than random bad luck. At the very least, changing the manager and coaching staff couldn’t possibly make things any worse, and it might actually help make some of these guys better.
The answer for why no one is getting any better is almost always this: This is as good as these guys are.
The team is full of lifelong minor leaguers and cup of coffee guys. They aren’t getting better because they have maxed out their abilities. That’s not a David Bell and the coaches issue, that’s a roster/organizational depth issue.
“The team is full of lifelong minor leaguers and cup of coffee guys. They aren’t getting better because they have maxed out their abilities.”
Everyone is a lifelong minor leaguer until they make the majors. That’s no reason to expect them to be terrible in the majors. Some of these guys were actually pretty good in the minors, which is why they made the majors. I don’t think we have any idea what the ceiling might be (or might have been) for quite a few guys on this team. Are we really supposed to accept that Senzel cannot possibly have an OBP significantly higher than .294 right now, because he’s just not physically capable of it? Are we really supposed to assume Barrero couldn’t possibly be hitting better than .160 right now? Or that Robinson’s .251 minor league average (including .253 in AAA) can’t possibly translate to anything better than .091 in the majors? Are we really supposed to assume India HAD to get worse this year? Or that Aquino HAD to go into a prolonged slump that was so bad the Reds were ready to let him go? Or that Moose HAD to be an absolute disaster by the third year of his contract? Or that Suarez HAD to decline as dramatically as he did in a Reds uniform? I could go on and on. It’s very easy to say “they are what they are,” but I don’t think we actually know what a lot of these guys are. We only know what they’ve been under this particular regime. A lot of them haven’t lived up to expectations, and some seem to be getting worse in what’s supposed to be their prime. That’s not normal.
Moreover, when Bell DOES have guys who seem like they might have high ceilings and/or might be improving, he’s often not allowing them to play regularly — favoring those “cup of coffee” guys or veterans who are clearly in decline. I would have liked to see what Lopez could do in a full season of playing regularly, but instead we got lots of Moose, Moran, and Reynolds. Drury only got to show us what he was capable of (which turned out to be a lot more than any of us would have predicted — go figure) because of injuries to Bell’s preferred veterans.
There are guys in their late 20’s and early 30’s on this team who have less service time than guys playing in their second full seasons. That’s what I mean when I say career minor leaguers, not guys who are 24 and just now reaching the big leagues.
Expecting this roster to be better is crazy. Barrero was getting his lunch stolen from him every night in Triple-A all season long this year. Yet he was called up and inserted in the lineup to play every day. There was no reason at all to think that he was going to come up when he did and hit. It was beyond ridiculous to expect that and I’d pay good money to be able to go back in time and listen to the conversations around the idea that calling him up made sense from the front office perspective.
Aquino is 28 years old and he’s a career .215 hitter. Chuckie Robinson is a 27-year-old rookie who is only in the big leagues because the Reds tried 7 other catchers first and they didn’t work, but the front office seemed to think that all of those other options were better than he was. Matt Reynolds was 31-years-old before he got more than 115 at-bats in a big league season. Albert Almora hit .134 in 2020 and 2021 in the limited big league action he got. Aramis Garcia was a 29-year-old who had never had 100 at-bats in a big league season.
The pitching…. Connor Overton, TJ Zeuch, Chase Anderson, Robert Dugger, Fernando Cruz (love the story so much, but he’s literally a 32-year-old rookie), Ryan Hendrix, Jared Solomon, Phillip Diehl, Luke Farrell, Raynel Espinal, Kyle Dowdy…. I mean come on. This roster is very, very bad. It’s been bad all year and it’s gotten worse as the year has gone along.
I do think that Bell favors some guys for reasons I can’t figure out, but man, this roster stinks out loud and for the most part the options he’s had are just some guy you’ve never heard of before they were put in the game and that other guy who you had never heard of before they were put in the game, but both guys were also bad in Triple-A and in the limited time they’d had in the big leagues in the past.
The problem with the Reds isn’t the field staff, it’s the talent on the field, in the dugout, and on the mound.
I should add: India was only ROY last year because the Reds couldn’t sign a shortstop. If they had signed a veteran SS — literally anyone — then Suarez would have been at third and Moose at second, Farmer would have been the backup, and we all know Bell would have ridden with those guys all season with India on the bench or in the minors. He simply can’t be trusted to recognize a potentially high ceiling when it exists.
i keep trotting this out, but sparky’s 1989 tigers lost 103 games. perhaps he forgot how to manage, but it’s more likely that his players weren’t good. the reds were pretty good last season despite a bullpen that rivaled this year’s for futility, and many injuries to important players.
So what will the excuse be when the Reds have a good young team that performs fairly well and yet the team continues to lose?
Just asking.
How can the team perform fairly well yet continue to lose?
I simply don’t understand why there has to be *A* problem with this team. Why isn’t it possible for there to be problemS with this team? David Bell, lest you forget, was hired and extended by the same people who’ve made all sorts of terrible roster moves — many of which were clearly just intended to save money without any real concern for winning. Isn’t it conceivable that Bell is ANOTHER such move, rather than one of the few things they just happen to have gotten right?
We’ve all watched Bell make decision after decision after decision that don’t make any sense, and the vast majority of them fail in very predictable ways. We’ve also watched many players regress (especially hitters and relief pitchers), and we’ve seen young players struggle in ways their minor league stats do NOT explain. Barrero had problems in the minors this season, that’s true, but last year he was fantastic. He’s obviously got the physical tools to be a solid — and possibly great — major league hitter, and the fact that he’s been hitting like a pitcher for the past couple months shouldn’t just be casually written off as “oh well, that’s as good as he can possibly be.” Maybe — just maybe — a different set of coaches and a manager with a different set of skills could be of some service to him. We’ll never know if we just resign ourselves to “these guys can’t possibly be any better than they are right now, so why bother making any changes?”
AA is a .215 lifetime hitter under David Bell. He’s a .300 hitter in AAA. He was a .259 hitter his rookie year at age, what, 24? He obviously had (and still has) the potential to be a legit major league hitter, and it seemed like he knew what he was doing when he made it to the majors. Bell et al. may not be the cause of his decline, but they sure don’t seem to have helped, and I’m curious to know what might have happened if he’d had different leadership. I have no reason to believe it was inevitable that he had to be a bad hitter for three years. Certainly there was no reason for him to become such a terrible hitter that the Reds, of all teams, were ready to let him walk away. I just don’t buy that his decline was inevitable.
I really don’t understand the logic of “he hasn’t been good in all the time he’s played under Bell, therefore he couldn’t possibly be better if he’d been playing for someone else.” If managers don’t have any effect on their players’ performances, and their only real role is to make in-game decisions, then just give the job to any of us and I’m sure we can do a perfectly fine job for a fraction of what they’re paying him. Presumably one of the reasons he’s got this job is that he’s supposed to know a lot about how to play baseball and can theoretically use that knowledge to make the players play better than they otherwise would. If he has nothing to do with the way his players are playing, then just hire me to fill out the lineup. I’ll work for a lot less, and I can ALSO not help the players get any better because, like David Bell, I ALSO don’t know how to improve their hitting and pitching. It’s win-win.
So because some fringy prospects came up and struggled, something I’d personally have expected, its all on the manager? Have you looked at how those types of scenarios have played out on other teams with different managers, presumably some you’d prefer for the Reds? Largely the same unless its a hot-shot prospect I’d expect, and many of those have come up and struggled at first too.
It really would be a better board around here if other people had other favorite teams they followed, maybe they wouldnt fall into the hole of constantly complaining about the things that happen to every team. Even on our team full of youngsters you’re starting to see guys have success even with inconsistent playing time. No credit to Bell for that however, no way no how.
As I’ve said before I dont care if they do change the coaching staff because there are things I see I dont like either, but **the coaches arent what’s wrong with this team**. I’ve said it for years, but the problem with this team is the FO. They havent addressed the pen in 3 years, instead subtracting from it to save a smallish amount of money. Their plan there has been to shuffle AAAA players or veterans on the decline in hopes any of them stick and very little have. They cry poor I assuming just to keep their investment group fat and happy.
Whatever it is you think a new manager is going to do better, youre likely in for a surprise when they do all the same things you see Bell do. When i watch a manager make a move I try and understand why he did it first before going all crazy over nothing. Its a lot better than complaining about everything, especially the insignificant moves, believe me. I’d recommend it personally, and I always remember that the biggest impact on the game comes from the players performance not the managers.
I agree with Dennis and Doug. The duality of this post. Nobody would could win with this roster. That is true. However, Bell makes decisions which defy logic. He slotted Votto at Cleanup all year long when it was obvious something was wrong. His propensity to use Strickland in the 9th for nearly the entire season instead of Diaz was inexcusable. Pham always batting 3rd? Come on.
Granted, the majority of this mess is on management but I feel it’s time for a change in the dugout. If one listened closely throughout the year, you could hear it in the voices of Larkin and Brantley too.
Votto and Pham, at the time, were some of the best players on the roster. Who do you think he should have hit there instead? I’m assuming you havent thought of an answer to that yet. Diaz has been used in the higher leverage innings that typically happen earlier than the ninth. He’s also the only good reliever we’ve had all year, more than one is needed to get through the later innings, I dont just care about the ninth.
Went to the Reds site to check the score and saw the headline “Lodolo Overpowers Pirates” and thought we had picked up the win. Nope. Give the headline writer points for positivity.
That’s funny. I saw that. Except for the score being given in small print, there was no actual discussion or headline about the loss. Watch the film where Farmers and Romine hit homers, and Lodolo strikes out 11! We are told that Barrero is working with a hitting coach while it was revealed yesterday that Senzel gets hitting tips from India and Solano! They are making it happen and are getting the support of David Bell along the way!
Yeah – stories on Senzel’s efforts to improve. He was VERY EFFECTIVE to STYMIE offense in this Pirates series. Wouldn’t a normal mgr. bench him?
Season done! Was slim chance to gain 3rd at least – worst series far as I’m concerned in a long….time. Switch my attn. to Judge for remainder.
MAN. THIS IS EMBARRASSING. I thought 2014-2019 was a bad time for our reds. I feel like we are headed into an era much worse than 2014- 2019 or 1982-84.
I am hoping the rule changes may help a little bit but I went to the game last night and we would have had 1 hit with or without the shift.
next year I am giving Bell a pass because it will mainly be about Joey Votto and his celebration. (kind of like 1983 with Johnny). but if things don’t turn around in 2024 and the ownership keeps Bell, I may just have to quit the reds and I have been a reds fan since the Frank Robinson days
You can’t quit the Reds. Next April you’ll be herding cattle with the Reds and frollicking around with your shirts off. Then the season begins and they’re eliminated by Memorial Day.
As a top Red’s management figure has said, I have no where to go if I’m not a Red’s fan.
i usually go to 20 games a year. I will go to my customary 20 next year to celebrate Joey. then I Will give Bell a year to adjust to the new rules, if the reds though are playing uninspiring ball in 2024 with crappy base running and defensive blunders, man I don’t know. Even the most loyal of fans would break way from this team
if you want to see sad, think of being both a Reds fan and a Dallas Cowboys fan. Talk about 2 direction-less franchises.
The trades they made this season have given me some hope for the future. The minor leagues have gotten a significant influx of talent, and the Reds’ 3 best pitchers are already with the big league club and holding their own, while also learning about what it means to be a big league pitcher.
Between India, Stephenson, Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft, the Reds already have 5 players who should be part of The Next Great Reds Team already in the big leagues. The hope is that enough players emerge over the next year that the Reds will be just a handful of free agent signings away from competing in 2024. This has given me some reason to be interested in the 2023 season, to see if the Reds really have the pieces to put it all together.
I would still rather have a different manager than Bell to lead it all, though. Someone more dynamic and forward-thinking. Although I admit I have no idea who that might be.
These 5 players, plus I would add Diaz, to start forming the nucleus of our next good Reds team.
if we can all follow the reds without identifying with them, we can achieve serenity.
lol +1
Idea for the arm chair manager’s apply for the position if you can do better.
This is what happens when you trade off players. Like it or not 2020 and 2021 Reds were competitive. Twist that anyway you want. This season after trading players they started 3-22 then played 500 baseball. Again twist it how you want.
Frustrating yes, however this isn’t on bell. This is upper management getting rid of players.. some wanted younger players and now complain.. again go apply for the position..
Slight edit … it isn’t ENTIRELY on DTBell. And games like today are far less on him than most of us want to admit.
After 3 and 22 they have not played .500..I believe they are 30 under overall
Kevin, here’s how I twist it: I couldn’t care less about .500 baseball, or being competitive, or sneaking into the last wildcard. I want them to win it all. What they are doing now gives them a rwal chance in the next few years.
^^THIS^^
The Astros lost 100 games for 5 straight seasons. Now look at them. They aren’t toiling around .500 hoping to get the 8th seed.
Strive to be better than mediocre.
Whats wrong with wanting them to be competitive? I personally think this team in its market should be trying for any playoff spot they can, be it winning the division or sneaking into a wildcard. An I’ll personally be happy if they’re simply winning games. I had a great time watching the Reds compete last year, I realize not everyone here did. I want them to win it all just as much as you too.
I put in my application. They told me I didn’t qualify because I wasn’t related to any former Reds players.
+1000 Points
It’s not one thing. It’s a myriad of things compounded by a slew of injuries, some dumb decisions, and youngsters who have great potential but are struggling to play at the MLB level. I’m definitely not a fan of DTBell, but we can’t hang the entire season on him. He is, however, the “darling” of the FO and very likely untouchable.
It’s a shame to see Lodolo’s great start squandered by the lack of run support and the implosion that is our bullpen.
The biggest pain today was getting swept by the Pie-rats in our house for the first time in 30 years and the first time EVER at GABP.
Bring on the WLB’s 😮
There are only 20 games remaining now, until this miserable “where else are you gonna go” season is over.
Though we have been watching these numbers for some time now, particularly since this team lost 22 of its first 25, I guess it’s time we officially set our sights on only the second 100 or more loss season in the history of this franchise dating back to around 1869.
If this minor league National League team can win only 6 of the last 20 they will nail down exactly 100 losses for the year. The 1982 team, as we most ashamedly know, lost 101 games for the all-time team loss record. Those are not exactly numbers that makes you want to write back home about. Indeed, it has been a shameful, shameful season traced ALL THE WAY back to Opening Day.
Despite all of the up and coming young talent now in the farm system, does the team REALLY have anything to look forward to in 2023 and beyond? For once that up and coming young talent matures into, hopefully some will, decent major league players it will once again be time to spin that revolving door and usher in yet another wave of “rebuilding”. Never in our lifetimes have we seen a professional sports franchise, regardless of the sport, face such uncertain and inept times when it comes to fielding a consistently competitive ballclub. Sadly, it may be generations and generations before we see any National League pennants or World Series Championships gracing us with their presence at Great American Ball Park.
I just want to see good baseball, understanding the team’s roster is below other teams. But when Cowboy calls moves by David Bell crazy, like last night, that’s not roster! I don’t care who manages the Reds (Bell or Lovechild) as long as it’s good baseball. IMO- Swinging at the first pitch after back to back walks isn’t sound baseball or is the hitting approach of homerun/ or strikeout. No hit and run! No Steals! No bunts! Which the Pirates did a couple times today to move runners. I would settle for productive outs with this roster. Hopefully, I can see some great baseball from the Reds starting against the Cards. We all love the Reds and want them to be successful. Go Reds!!
More bunts? ew…..
Ive never been accused of being an optimist and I couldn’t quite follow exactly Tommy Thrall’s stats so If anyone can confirm or has the exact stats help me out.
Nick Lodolo is only the second rookie since 1900 to throw back to back 11k 0 walk games. Doc Gooden is the other.
I think he said Jose Rijo was the last Reds pitcher to do it and Gary Nolan had multiple 11k 0BB starts as a rookie just not back to back. Bruce Berenyi was in there somewhere because Cowboy had to correct Thrall on how to pronounce Berenyi but I couldn’t confirm that.
Lodolo is quickly becoming a nice story line for 2022 of young pitching development with Diaz and Ashcraft joining him and possibly/probably Greene.
Optimism FONT off.
Realistic cynical font back on.
Hitting stinks.
The hitting stinks because frankly, there are no high “OPS” type players in the line up.
Zero. The only true +.800 OPS player the Reds had this year was Drury.
There are some good potential hitters in the minors (plus Steer is here now). But until they can combine good pitching (and besides the K’s, Lodolo just didn’t pitch that well today, 3 runs in 6 innings). Against the Pirates.
Pitching wins games. Which is why it is likely that the Reds lose 4 out of 5 to the Cardinals this weekend (or maybe all 5). Because the Cardinals are playing for something and actually have some offensive talent on the field.
But actually, the Reds pitched well in both ends of the double header yesterday; good enough to win. But no offense. A one-hitter in the nite cap.
I think it is time again to remember the stalwart promises of Bob Castellini about bringing winning baseball back to Cincinnati. David Bell is not a great or even good field manager; in fact, I don’t think he is very good at all. But the active roster, such as it is at the end of 2022, is pretty bad.
We all get tired of watching losing baseball by our favorite team; we all get tired of ranting about it. I think that there is some hope in the future, but then again, I have no faith in the management of this franchise not to screw up everything that they touch.
Dis is a berry, berry bad bess-ball team.
I think there were a lot of apples, oranges and pears being all mixed together.
11ks and 0 zero walks in consecutive games by a rookie is the rarest. 11k and 0 walks by a rookie but not in consecutive efforts was also floated as was consecutive 11k games by a rookie whether or not there were any walks.
I am not sure how the names broke down in each category except Lodolo was in all of them along with some fairly to very exclusive company.
I am of the school that we had a nice ball club in 2020 and 2021. We lost a playoff series in 2020 despite stud pitching from Bauer and Luis. A little hitting and we move on. We had a firm grip on the wildcard in 2021 and went cheap at the trade deadline and the Cards and Braves beat us to the finish line. Despite injuries and cheap trade deadline moves, we still won 83 games and had a dang exciting club. Then the next 8 months. We did not have to trade Nick, Wink, Geno, Naquin, Sonny, Luis, and Mahle. Yeah, I understand we had 2-3 young pitchers on the rise and 1 young SS (Barerro) to make room for. But to strip it bare? As others have said, we are missing 4 solid offensive bats that ain’t anywhere in sight. Our near term prospects are Barerro, Steer and Williamson. I don’t know if that does diddly to 2023. I have heard Lark say that many of our upcoming prospects will be used as trade capital. I sure hope that is true because I don’t see this bunch of Friedl, Fraley, Aquinos, Dunn, Lopez, etc. as being difference makers to get us from 70 wins to 85 wins.
I don’t comment much from my distance 2500 miles or so from GAP, but having been a Reds fan for over 60 years, what matters to me most right now is whether we can have a competitive team in 2024, if not 2023. I think the Castellinis have to be embarrassed enough by what’s happened this year to be willing to spend some money this off-season (and/or the 23-24 off-season) on adding in some areas where even the current farm system talent can’t help. Here’s how I see the priorities:
1. For the love of god, figure out a way to fix the bullpen. Maybe Diaz can close, but it wouldn’t hurt to add a few experienced and solid arms. I know this has been tried in the past and not with much success, but how is it possible that the Dodgers (I live near LA) manage to find three or four really solid and nameless relief pitchers every year and we just end up with Kuhnel, Law, et al.? Obviously injuries have been a factor this year, but I do think we need to spend in this area more than anywhere else.
2. Secondly, at least one solid and experienced hitter, probably an outfielder. I wonder about Benintendi as so many others have, but I’m not sure we could afford him or that he would want to come here. A pillow deal with someone like Conforto might be worth considering as long as there were team options for later years. While I do think significant money needs to be invested in at least one or probably two hitters, the ballpark permits us to add guys like Brandon Drury for not very much money if we can find them.
3. The young rotation, if healthy, is promising, but we also need a solid experienced starter–or two. I like Greene-Lodolo-Ashcraft, but let’s get them someone (other than Mike Minor) to learn from and be mentored by. Even, dare I say, a Wade Miley type, perhaps even Wade Miley?
There is a small core here and a solid farm system to get excited about, but money is going to have to be spent on the bullpen, outfield, and rotation before this team even sniffs .500. I don’t know whether Bell needs to go or not. What I do know, I think, is that the Castellinis need to spend.
You’re #1 is my #1…. fix the bullpen.
The Orioles are 21st in hitting, but their bullpen ranks 6th.
Top 8 are:
Houston
Yankees
Dodgers
Cleveland
Braves
Orioles
Seattle
Tampa
Don’t spend 17 million on Minor and Pham….Spend it on the bullpen
Amen to that!
If Votto has been injured for the whole season+, has a pathetic season going and management lets it continue until September there is a problem. The injury couldn’t have been a secret and they can’t force someone to have surgery, but you can say you are on the bench until it is 100% again or put him on the IL (after a certain amount of time they would get some insurance money back). I get the idea that the chickens are running the hen house. If Bell is ignoring information, or failing to act on it, or letting players dictate then I don’t care what the talent on the team is there needs to be a change.
Yesterday, the talentless Pirates appeared ready to play with some team energy while the talentless Reds did not. That is on Bell, staff and players themselves. But can’t fire all the players
+1. Well said. two talentless teams, yet one found a way to muster the energy to give more than a half-hearted attempt at competing. Like I said yesterday if this is what not losing the clubhouse looks like, I say blow it up completely. But that will never happen because they hired a bureaucrat as a manager….(the 3rd in a row in fact) who toes the company line and does everything by the book, which is exactly what ownership prefers.
Cue Tom Pretty and the Heartbreakers “Free Falling'”
That all for now from me.
Had Under 8.5 today and felt ok at 4-2 late, but here comes Kuhnel and I knew I was done. He’s another one? Just hang around the organization year after year, but they HAVE NO TALENT????? Cut that scrub loose
I probably haven’t watched 10% of the Reds games for atleast a month now, but I read where India got thrown out by a mile the other day trying to stretch a hit into a double. He’s another one. C- baserunner at best. Average speed, but bad instincts.
This team has been horrific on the bases since Rolen/BP/Billy. At what point does that fall back on Bell? Ok the pen is horrible and not much Bell can do about that, but playing the game the correct way? If a manager has no control over that then what is he paid for? Haven’t watched Friedl enough, but I’d say Aquino is a pretty good baserunner. Anyone else? They suck and they are allowed to look like novices despite getting paid huge sums of money to be professional baseball players.
Bring in all the young talent you want, but why would anyone assume they will play the game the right way?
I wouldn’t use it as an excuse, but Gabp factors in. They sat around with Geno, Votto, Castellanos, etc and waited on 3 run HRs instead of being aggressive/reactive on the bases. Granted the small layout makes station to station more necessary at times, but I’m pretty sure they also play half their games away from Gabp.
It seems to me there is little effort in the Reds system at team building or instilling a “Reds way” of approaching and playing the games.
I just checked the affiliates’ records. Every team but Dayton, Class A+, appears to have the worst or next to the worst overall record in their entire league for the total season across divisions. Dayton stands about in the middle of their league. Yet we keep hearing they have advanced from the bottom third in talent a couple of seasons ago to the top third now.
Apparently, the organization works much harder at identifying and developing individual talent than at instilling and implementing a style of team play. This shows when they arrive at MLB and struggle with base running, executing rundowns, covering bases in fluid situations, etc.
My biggest criticism of this coaching staff is the lack of fundementals, perhaps thats organization wide I hadn’t really thought of it that way. Most on here will criticize the smallest dumbest things, but thats a big one for me personally, the baserunning and defensive fundamentals can be improved upon IMO. Usually what I read on here are gripes about things any manager would do, including things an old-school manager would do, but you know, complaining is fun I must admit so I guess I get it.
Jim I think you hit the nail on the head. There is no sense of team effort or team winning mentality on these guys coming up. If they are brought thru the minors just thinking and acting as individuals, then that will carry on into the big leagues, and you see what we are seeing now from these rookies, except for Lopez, he is a team player and a baseball player in the true sense of the word, and is often overlooked. This team has no identity.
If EDLC and Marte develop into superstars next seaso, this team will still lose 90 games. This is the worst Reds team I have seen in my life and that includes the early 1980s.
As recently as last year, this team had one
of the top rotations in baseball. Look at it now.
If the Reds front office spent like a drunken sailor this off season, they would still have a losing season in 2023.
The Reds are now so far in the hole, it will take years and years for this team to be competitive again.
There is zero chance this team is going to be competitive in 2024. I would be surprise if they finish above .500 again in this decade.
@Votto, I get where you’re coming from, but I disagree with your predictions. DW built a very poorly constructed team, and that’s the reason it had to be torn down. I think we will be a .500 team by 24 with a hopefully long window opening. I don’t think It’s just because I wear rose colored glasses.
By 24 India, and Stephenson will be entering their prime years at 27, and 28 respectively.
The big 3 of Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft will no longer be rookies, but 3rd year guys anchoring the rotation.
Diaz has the stuff, and by 24 the experience to be a shut down closer.
EDLC could be a legit superstar like the Reds haven’t seen since Eric Davis.
The reaping of a top 3 farm system will be well underway by then.
There is no big money allocated with a presumably 110M – 120M budget at Krall disposal. That would give him the money to get the FA’s that fit the holes we can’t fill internally.
Dick William’s built a poorly constructed team that finished over .500 in 2020 and 2021. The team was tore down because ownership cried poor.
Yes DW’s team topped out at .500, or in other words an average team. The budget had no more room to add players need to be better, so it was poorly constructed if you want to win, and not be just average. We can hope that Bob opens his payroll to 150M – 175M, but until then the GM’s job is to create a Winning team in the confines of the budget. I like DW, but that doesn’t mean he succeeded in building a winning team. I especially liked how he overhauled the organizations relationship with analytics. Maybe his long term plan would have been great, but we’ll never know because he quit, and left a mess at the MLB level.
If they can somehow fix the bullpen and field a better team defensively next year, they might be able to surprise with their record. Maybe not playoff worthy but its a poor division so you never know. The outfield needs addressed, and they need another solid SP and they aren’t that far off. The team is looking like its developing a number of good role players, hopefully one of them breaks out and EDLC arrives in the form most are hoping for when he gets here.
Wow, such optimism. I don’t understand how you can’t be hopeful with the young starters, India, Stephenson and even guys like Lopez. I am truly depressed myself the last few days with all this losing, especially to the Pirates, but not writing them off for 20 years.
I don’t think anyone is writing them off for 20 years. I think most though are realistic to realize this team won’t even have a chance to be good until maybe. 2025 at best. If me and others are wrong then so be it but, it sure feels like a good team is a way away with so many of our top prospects only in A level minor league.
Until ownership of this team changes, nothing on the field or in the dugout will change. Current ownership is happy with an average product , people in the stands and their check from MLB and TV.
It’s the last month of the season. Take a look at the batting leaders on this team. Kyle Farmer leads in all categories. Farmer is our MVP but with all due respect he wouldn’t be a starter on any other team. He has 11 home runs. The season is almost over and 11 is the best we got. If you were to show Reds highlights of this entire season the only ones that come to mind are the put out throws from Aquino. This is a bad team. The Dayton team would have better success and for sure would be more fun to watch. Fans would be much more understanding if the losing was done with the kids. But the Reds grab a warm body off the waiver wire and put him on the field. We knew the Reds were going to lose a lot of games after all the trades but this is ugly baseball.
Let’s all hope that come October that we will sit back and say that is over. We gave the young guys all the chances the last 2 months and this is who we are. Throw in Moose, Votto, and Stephenson and I don’t know that the 2023 picture gets much brighter. Our near term prospects are Barerro, Steer, and Williamson. I don’t see them as difference makers. I can conclude that Fraley, Friedl, Fairchild, and Aquino are not our starting OFs on a playoff team. If 2024 is going to be our return to glory, then we better start partly filling in the holes now. Translation: the money saved on Pham, Minor, Naquin, Luis, Mahle, Nick, etc. needs to be spent on real offense and bullpen pieces. 2 year contract guys to bridge the gap to the arrival of prospects and the departures of big contract guys.
Good post. Short and to the point. I agree that the failure to achieve much with the larger payroll clearly pointed to a new strategy but there seems to very little to get excited about from these last two months of the players you mentioned. More than a couple 2-3 year contracts could hopefully bridge the gap but they couldn’t keep Drury and there are doubts with Farmer and Solano also.
You make a good point. Ownership’s ‘larger payroll’ was relative. Compared to other teams we were still only middle of the pack, yet they took their toys and went home when the deep playoff run didn’t materialize. Higher payrolls do correlate with more winning, or at least not bottoming out like we’re seeing this and many other years, yet their takeaway was the exact opposite. When the player’s union didn’t negotiate a payroll floor, profitable bottom feeding ownership groups like the Reds were incentivized to undertake years-long rebuilds. Putting a good product on the field has no relevance on their ability to make money.
The sweep puts the team in a not very favorable historical position. No, they likely won’t finish behind the Pirates but they have probably extinguished any reasonable chance of getting 3rd place either. I’m more concerned with this team’s historical legacy.
Since the 162 game season started (in 1962 btw), most of you probably know that the Red’s 1982 season of 61-101 was the worst. (They won’t near 100 losses imo). But, if they piddle around on their pretty consistent .400 winning percentage for the rest of the season, they will end up at 64-98. Yep, the second worst season’s record (2015).
Do the players have the fortitude and desire to play hard for “he’s got my back” David Bell or will they have another late season struggle like the last 2 years? Will it even matter to ownership or David Bell?
I struggle to find the relevance of the 100 loss number, like it is some magic albatross.
To me, losing 98 or 101 doesn’t matter one iota. Do you honestly think that the players will all pat each other on the back if they somehow stay under 100 losses? Will they jump of a bridge if the lose 102? The answer to both questions is no.
VaRedsFan: I completely agree with you. The number 100 more or less losses means nothing to me. It is only something for a columnist to make a big deal about. It’s something Red’s management and personnel have to change. I feel the same non-interest in how the 2023 Red’s season will turn out. As a fan, I’ll take a game at a time and eventually I’ll know the result.
No, the players don’t have much vested interest except their own pride and allegiance to the leadership but I believe a 50% chance of having the 2nd worse season in the last 60+ years may have an effect on the FO and fanbase.
Guys this is fairly simple to me. Ownership has a budget they will not deviate from. With the young pitching staff and a few bull pen arms this team could have competed for the division title.
They Made no effort to sign Nick C, unloaded Winker and Suarez, traded off Mahle, Castillo, Barnhardt, Naquin, Drury all for prospects.
Moose and Votto account for almost 50 mil of their payroll. Same as next year. They are unmovable.
This isn’t about being competitive it’s about profit and balancing the budget.
Blaming Bell is laughable. Until they are clear of Moose and Votto this team will be dependent on prospects regardless if the are ready or not and other teams castoffs they can sign to one year contracts.
I also have my doubts they will reinvest the sunk cost that has become Moose and Votto.
I don’t think it is a matter of blaming Bell. The issue is can the Reds do better than David Bell as the manager and I think the answer is yes. They have a lot of young talent coming up and Bell has not shown the ability to handle younger players, besides after a season like this it is most likely time to go a different direction.
Bingo…and the coaches under Bell and the system he has put in place for 4 years does not seem to be achieving adequate player development at the MLB and MiLB levels. We are told that the Reds draft very well and are among the best farm systems yet except for a few pitchers, almost all the other call ups are struggling mightily. There must be a coaching paradigm and associated personnel that can do a better job than this.
Or at least a coaching staff that doesn’t bow to veteran privilege in a season that’s been lost since May 1st. That’s clearly an area where the manager isn’t fully vested in the mission.
@Mark Can’t agree with you Mark. I don’t think he has a issue managing young players. I see that thrown around a lot but I think it’s used by people here to discredit him. Fact is Bell has a responsibility to all the players on the team. Young and older. And yes players with a history of success do get a longer leash. That happens in business and industry all the time. Farmer is playing for his professional life same as a rookie. Steer, Barrera,Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft have all been given opportunities as well as a few others. I get ticketed as a old fart when I see people posting that he is in the lineup but playing a different position. In my day if you made the team and then got on the field regularly you were in heaven. It’s up to the player to make the most of his opportunity. While changing positions can be difficult the player is still responsible for making the most of his abilities. As a old fan I could site many a player that switched positions around to get a chance a help the team.
Totally agree with you about letting Steer play multiple positions. It’s his chance to get a foot in the door and play. I highly doubt he is in the batters box thinking. “wow, I can’t believe Bell put me at 1st, instead of 3rd.”
Ludicrous thinking IMO.
Now next year, if there is an injury, you can confidently slide him in everyday, and know he at least has some experience at the position. From what I’ve seen, he’s handled each position very well.
totally agree Jim T. And I use the cardinals as a prime example. They have a ton of players playing positions this year that they barely played in the minors. Did they complain and use it as an excuse of why they weren’t playing well? No! They seized the opportunity of being on the active roster of a big league ball club!
Its up to the player to take advantage of playing time at the major league level. Those are precious at bats and innings. If you really want to stick around, you have to play and pitch well – regardless of whether you’ve played 1000 innings at the position or were a starter and they’re calling you out of the bullpen. Successful people do successful things. Get it done!
The list of younger players who have thrived is actually pretty long: India (won ROY), Tyler Stephenson, Hunter Greene, Ashcraft, Lodolo, Diaz, Friedl, and Fraley–all relatively young, all delivering league average or better results.
It’s too early to evaluate Steer and Barrero. Moreover, Barrero was underwhelming at AAA (his plate struggles did not start under this coaching staff).
I would put Aquino (keep in mind the Reds had actually DFA Aquino before resigning him as a MiLB FA before the 2019 season) and Senzel (multiple injuries) on the list who have underperformed.
This has to be the bottom. There can’t possibly be anything lower than this. The only way is up now.
honestly the reds will compete again when other teams get worse, not when the reds get better. the talent pool of position players is starting to dry up. it has not affected the high roller teams like the Dodgers and Yankees yet but certainly the reds, pirates have a lot of position players that frankly just can’t hit. eventually these type of players will seep into the rosters of the rich teams as well and finally we will see some parity. this has happened in the nba where the lack of talent is so prevalent that now even the lakers stink. i feel mlb is about 5 years behind the nba. Votto 4 life said no winning record for the reds for the rest of the decade and he may just be right.
Reds lineup is out and Steer is at 3b and Farmer at short.
At this point, ID rather see Steer at 3b than Barrero at SS and Farmer at 3b.
As Doug stated, Barrero wasnt hitting at AAA so its not unexpected he’s not hitting at MLB. He had a few good at bats recently and then reverted to his non-competitive hitting ways. Don’t give up on him but you cant count on him as your every day SS in 2023 until he learns what not to swing at. THats like basic first rule of hitting stuff….don’t swing at balls. He needs to fix things over the off-season and have a strong ST to get back to fulfilling his potential.
Eager to see Steer at 3b.
Very disappointing to see potential core players in Senzel and Barrero not fulfill the high hopes and potential for 2022. Maybe 2023 is different.
Chalk it up to another mental break for Barrero and the fact that we’ve got to muscle through 5 games against the WLB’s through the weekend. Farmer is probably a better choice than Reynolds at SS. Aside from Aquino, the outfield arms are average to weak at best.
Let me add that I couldn’t agree more with Doug Gray’s points above. Anyone who looks at this current roster and thinks there is a chance to compete next year is, respectfully, not being realistic.
And what scares me the most is that while many are excited about the prospects in the minors, all we have to do is look at the current roster. Senzel is in the process of showing how disappointing a number 2 overall draft pick can be. Other than his excellent opening game, Steer hasn’t hit consistently. Barrero I think deserves a chance to heal fully from his wrist surgery, but he to date has shown no signs he can hit in the bigs. My point is that many of these franchise saviors sitting in the minors will not pan out. I hope De La Cruz does, but I am prepared mentally for him not to. You just never know.
For the Reds to eventually challenge for the World Series with the team-building strategy they currently have in place, they are going to have drafts equivalent to that of the Bengals’ last few years in adding Burrow, Higgins, Logan Wilson, Chase and Evan McPherson — game-changing players all.
good points Tom. The problem is the baseball versions of Burrow, Higgins, Chase et all simply do not exist anymore. Football rules the roost as America’s game now. drive around any neighborhood, park, school yard and if kids are outside playing, they are playing football. baseball and basketball have been left in the dust and the nba and now mlb are really suffering.
@Tom, I haven’t seen anyone comment that the 23 team will be competitive as is. The positive posts about 23 include comments centered around FA spending.
LF like Benintendi
Closer like Jansen
Setup Man like Hand
Legit backup C
Vet Pitcher for the rotation like Cueto
If the Reds were to add 5 legit FA’s for roughly 50M – 60M, and have a bit more luck with health that would be a different scenario than the one you proposed.
I think assuming there is a “plan”, other than keeping payroll low and avoiding multiple year contracts, is foolhardy.
I keep reading in these comments how the Reds will start spending again after Votto’s and Moustakas’ contracts off the books. This is no indication, in fact, just the opposite.
If the Reds had a plan and were willing to spend money, it will take years to fix this mess. Even then, they would need a system in place to
Develop talent and a lot of luck. Their player development system right now is inept.
Even if the Reds decided to spend on free agents go luck finding anyone who would want to sign here.
The Castellinis seems to have decided on a business model In which they will keep payroll low, avoid multiple contracts and profit from TV contracts and revenue sharing.
The Reds no longer care about attendance. It’s too fickle and requires large investments in payroll, with no guarantee that they will come out on the right side of the ledger.
FWIW, I don’t think the Reds will be alone in this approach.
I’m starting to feel guilty for taking the opposite view on your post, because I can emphasize with your frustration.
I get not seeing, or believing the Reds have a good plan going forward. I don’t understand why you believe the Reds won’t spend money.
When did they stop spending money would be my question?
2019 $101M
2020 $55M adjusted for short season
2021 $122M
2022 $115M
Yes, 22 is $7M less than the previous season. However after Krall cut guys like Suarez, Winker, Mahle, and Barnhart from the payroll, he added Minor $10M, Pham $6M, Solano $4.5M. If Krall just wanted to cut, why would he add 20M back in? I don’t think Krall maxed out his budget either. I’m guessing the budget is somewhere south of $130M, but at least $120M
Well let’s consider the additions the Reds made in the Spring.
1. Drury – traded after 4 months
2. Pham – traded after 4 months
3. Minor – no trade value
4. Solano – unable to trade due to injury
I would argue the Reds would have also traded Minor and Solano had (1) Minor had any value and (2) Solano had he been healthy at the deadline.
In addition, after these free agent signings the Reds dumped the salaries of Tyler Mahle and Luis Castillo.
So were the signings this past Spring really that significant? Did they really cost the Reds all that much money? Most just put the Reds, on the hook, for four months. These signings were more than offset by dumping Castillo and Mahle’s contracts.
Here is the real question on my mind can this team actually make it to 60 wins. Yes, that is only 4 wins but with only a half month to play I’m just not sure.
This year the Reds have only two position players who have played 100 or more games — Kyle Farmer and Nick Senzel. India might make it, as well, having played 86 so far. I wonder what the record is for fewest players on a big league roster to have played in 100 or more games in a given season in the 162-game era?
I’d like someone to explain to me what a “winning mentality” that other users were mentioning even means? You can want to win more than anyone else, and it doesn’t matter if you can’t hit.