Tyler Mahle pitched perhaps his most impressive five innings of the season under the scrutiny of major league scouts in the Cincinnati Reds’ 8-2 win over the Baltimore Orioles before 29,104 at Great American Ball Park.

Final R H E
Baltimore Orioles (51-50) 2 6 1
Cincinnati Reds (39-61)
8 13 0
W: Mahle (5-7) L: Kremer (3-3)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

Mahle started slowly, allowing two runs in the first. But he finished strong, retiring the final 13 Orioles he faced in his six innings. Scouts had to have been impressed, so it seems that the only effect that tonight’s performance could have on a possible trade is to make some team more anxious to acquire Mahle. We’ll see what happens. (As we finalize this article at 9:50 p.m. Eastern time, there are no imminent trades being “broken” on Twitter.)

Jake Fraley, appearing in his first Reds game since April, batted 3-for-4 including a homer. It was his first three-hit game in the major leagues.

The win was Cincinnati’s 11th in its past 18 games.

The Offense

Trailing 2-0 in the second inning, Michael Papierski’s single plated Kyle Farmer to draw the Reds within one. Then, in the fourth, Fraley struck:

That tied the game at 2-2. An out later with Fraley still on base, Jonathan India did some damage:

Then in the next inning, Joey Votto did what great hitters do with a straight fastball thrown right down the middle:

Then, still in the fifth, Fraley continued his excellent hitting performance:

The three-run inning put the Reds up 7-2 after five full frames. Cincinnati capped the scoring with a sixth-inning run on a Brandon Drury RBI bloop hit to left.

India and Fraley had three hits each to lead the Reds’ offense. India came up a triple short of hitting for the cycle.

The Pitching

Tyler Mahle started slowly in the first inning, allowing three hits and committing a run-scoring balk as the Orioles jumped to a 2-0 lead. There was speculation that perhaps he was a bit distracted by the trade rumors surrounding him, and it’s certainly possible. After all, he’s human. But thereafter, he got things in order and closed by retiring the final 13 hitters he faced. Mahle allowed five hits total, struck out seven while walking none. Take away the first inning, and it was perhaps his finest performance of the season.

With Mahle at 98 pitches after six full innings, it was the perfect scenario for Manager David Bell to pull him and then wait to see what other teams are willing to give up in exchange for Mahle. Don’t forget that his contract is in the same situation as Luis Castillo’s — still more than a full year of team control. Any team that acquires Mahle should pay a premium for that, as opposed to a player who is merely a two-month “rental.”

I hope General Manager Nick Krall will not trade Mahle unless the “premium” price is met.

Reiver Sanmartin, Ross Detwiler and Matt Hendrix each pitched a scoreless inning to close out the game.

News and Notes

The prospects acquired from Seattle have been assigned landing spots:

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

Baltimore Orioles at Cincinnati Reds

Sunday, July 31, 1:40 p.m. ET

Austin Voth (1-1, 6.15 ERA) vs. Nick Lodolo (3-3, 4.73 ERA)

80 Responses

  1. Bet on red

    Unfortunately I will miss tomorrow’s game, someone please hold down the Votto fort

    • JohnnyTV

      There’s been a lot of JV highlights over his career, but for me last year had perhaps the best:

      The string of homers after Castellanos had been HBP.

      You hit Nick. I take you downtown.

      Basta.

      How many times did that happen? 8? 11? 4?

      Who cares.

      It was awesome.

      • Melvin

        If Drury doesn’t get traded and wants to lead the Reds in homers he better start hitting more because Votto is comin.

  2. Old-school

    I have no opinion on Fraley.

    He played really well tonight and Reds need lefty hitting OF with plate discipline

    Give the guy 100-200 at bats.

  3. LarkinPhillips

    Maybe him ans Aquino platoon to finish the year after the trade deadline.

    • Bdh

      Wouldn’t they both start along with Senzel? 2 of Friedl, Almora, and Fairchild backing them up

      • LarkinPhillips

        I was assuming if Pham is not moved. If he is, I would guess 2 of those 3 platoon in the other corner spot as well.

  4. LarkinPhillips

    Good win tonight. Strong showings by India,Senzel, and Votto. Excited to wakeup tomorrow to see who is traded next.

  5. LDS

    All quiet on the trade front? Trading partners’ game still in progress?

    • JohnnyTV

      If I were Bull Krall, I’d be ringing the Yankees up by the hour offering Minor now that Castillo has been dealt.

      “An offer you can’t refuse.”

      “Oh, and we’re good on shortstops (for the next 20 years) so we’re okay if you want to hang on to Volpe….”

      Let the know they can have Kuhnel or Strickland, too, at the right price.

  6. SteveO

    Assignments for the newly acquired prospects seem low. I think Stoudt to Chattanooga is the only one I agree with. The other 3 prospects have spent all year at the assigned levels with above average stats. They should be moved up a level. Marte to Chattanooga and Arroyo and Moore to Dayton. Marte, EDLC and McLain can rotate between SS, 3B, 2B and DH. It would be a good time to also see if anyone of the 3 can play the OF. Rivas and DeLeon should be reassigned and the Lookouts should keep 6 IFs, McGarry, McLain, EDLC, Marte, Johnson and Quintana. They should stack the Lookouts and let the studs play together. Hopefully, these assignments are only temporary until the trade deadline passes and we see what other prospects are added to the organization. Also, draftees should be placed at Dayton, Daytona and Arizona making the need to restructure rosters again. The organization is known for not being so aggressive in promoting players, but with the 20 draftees and possibly 10-15 prospects coming via trade, deserving players should be promoted. I like the current position players in Louisville, but the pitching staff needs to be overhauled. Time to get rid of retreads Nicolino, McGuire and Zimmer. Promote Spiers to join Dunn, Dugger, Williamson and Wynne as starters. Garcia, Nutof and Stockton also deserve to be promoted to the Bats. Stoudt, Abbott, Phillips, Kravetz and a promoted Boyle to start in Chattanooga. There should be a lot of player movement in the next couple of weeks as prospects get placed and draftees get ramped up and placed in the organization.

    • Oldtimer

      I think the four were assigned to the correct spots. Each will benefit from another month at those levels. They are 2-3 years away from being Reds. Why rush them in 2022?

      • Optimist

        Agreed – and let the coaches and development staff get to know them, and vice-versa, as they excel at these levels. Sept. promotions as needed based on performance. No need to get aggressive until next spring.

      • Votto4life

        Oldtimer, I agree. If they play well, they will move up fast enough. There is not rush. I hate seeing prospects given time lines. The truth is, there are no real time lines. A prospect is promoted based upon performance (or should be anyway).

        I think it’s a good practice to assume a prospect is never going to be promoted to the big leagues. Then if he makes, it’s a pleasant surprise. Regardless, of what the scouting reports says, a player will be promoted when he has have earned it.

        Realistically, there is a good chance, that one or two of the players the Reds acquired yesterday, will never play for the Reds.

      • SteveO

        It’s not rushing them, it’s giving them reward for what they have accomplished. As they move up, they receive more pay. I’m sure you’re aware of the treatment of minor league players by MLB. There was even a recent lawsuit that was settled regarding minimum wage issues. For minor leaguers who are struggling to make ends meet and have to work in the offseason to pay bills, an increase in salary goes a long way. Therefore, those that deserve to be promoted, should be promoted. This is not only to challenge themselves at a higher level, but to also put more money in their pockets to survive. Your comment is very narrow minded and you should look at the greater picture. Regardless of how many years you may think they are away from joining the Reds, their performance on the field is the largest indicator of promoting them. The good prospects of good organizations usually play at 2 and sometimes 3 levels in a year. Your backwards way of thinking is why retreads have to join the organization via FA every year. The Guardians have excelled in this area and if you look at their organization from top to bottom, they have players at every level that are younger than the average age of that level. On top of that, they have a winning record at all levels, starting with the Guardians. Super impressive with a $67M payroll
        And Optimist, why is it so important that they need to get to know the coaches of the team that they will be leaving in a month or so? Their performance in the Mariner organization is the reason why the Reds wanted them in trades. If Marte and Arroyo had stat lines like Austin Hendrick at High A and Low A, they wouldn’t be in the Reds organization today. Hendrick got promoted hitting .205 in Daytona and is hitting about the same in Dayton now. Marte .275/.363/.462/.825, Arroyo .316/.385/.514/.899, Moore 2-1, 1.95 ERA, 58Ks in 32.1 IP, .217 BAA 1.30 WHIP have nothing more to prove at those levels. Marte and Arroyo especially should be handled like prospects EDLC and McGarry, who were promoted and are handling themselves well at the higher level.

      • Luke J

        SteveO. With all due respect, why do they “deserve” promotions. They haven’t played a game for the Reds yet. If Seattle didn’t promote them based on performance for them, why would the Reds? Obviously they can quickly earn promotions, but haven’t yet. Give it time. No problem at all starting them where they were with Seattle. It only makes sense. Jumping them up to tougher competition as they move to a new organizatios is unfair to them.

      • Earmbrister

        Steve O, with all due respect, these players aren’t struggling to make ends meet. Marte was a big international signing (IIRC for $1.85 MM). Arroyo was a second rounder with a signing bonus of $1.65 MM. Stoudt as 3rd rounder got a $339k signing bonus, and of course there’s his regular pay on top of that. Moore would probably be the only one of the four who is doing the more normal MiLB financial struggle and he’s 22 yrs old. The top international signees and first/second rounders aren’t sleeping on someone’s couch. That is in no way meant to diminish the very real financial struggles of the majority of minor league ball players.

        I tend to trust that the FO has a better feel for MiLB assignments than we do. They have a heckuva lot more information to go by.

    • JaxDan

      I was totally surprised to at the levels they were assigned to. The only thing I can think of is the Reds may have spoken with the farm director for Seattle.

  7. Indy Red Man

    I was a little intrigued with Fraley’s 2021 stats coming into the season. Power/speed combo with some obp ability. Looked great tonight. Who knows? Good night for Senzel too!

    • Bet on Red

      yea senzel would have had a much better night if not for that little snafu with Farmer

  8. Bdh

    Glad to see Fraley have a big game. Wish he had a full season to show his game. I still think he has a potential ceiling of a 20/20 player

    Side note – getting really old seeing Dotson whine on Twitter because he doesn’t understand how this rebuild is different than the botched attempt from 2014-18

    • Greenfield Red

      If anyone can’t see the difference in these two rebuilds, that person doesn’t know much about baseball. It’s night and day. It has me excited about Reds baseball again.

      • Hotto4Votto

        Agreed. This rebuild hits much different than the last.

    • JB

      Well for one they have gotten better prospects than what they got for Cueto, Chapman and others.

      • Bdh

        Yep. The reds held onto Cueto, Frazier, cozart, and Bruce way too long then tried to trade for them for mlb ready players. They also botched the homer Bailey trade by adding Gray and downs. Worst of the bunch was the Chapman trade. He’s the only one of the bunch they traded early but it was when he had his DV charge and therefore the lowest value of his career. The Yankees flipped him later that season for Gleybar Torres +!

        What’s also different about this rebuild is the amount of young talent already on the reds and in the minors before it started. I think that’s partly because they emptied their farm system to help those early 2010s team where this last window 2019-21 they tried to spend their way to the playoffs. Gave up grandal, boxburger, and Alonso for latos, gregorius in the Choo trade, and several others in the system for Broxton. There wasn’t much left in the minors when they started the rebuild and going for close to mlb prospects wasn’t the answer

        This time around you’re left with some really good young talent on the team (Stephenson,India, senzel, Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, Diaz) and the returns they’re getting are the younger elite prospects because they didn’t wait too long to trade their vets. By the time they come up the majors and their 6+ years of team control starts it’ll be time to extend the young group that’s already on the reds. And while this ownership group take a lot of crap (a lot of it deserved) they have shown they’ll extend a handful of their players at the same time like they did with Votto, Phillips, Bruce, cueto, Bailey, Mesoraco were together.

        That should open a long window for the reds and with all the very talented teenagers in the system (arroyo, Collier, Stewart, Jorge, and petty to name a few) they’ll be able to replenish the mlb squad from within as they come up rather than trading 3 future all stars for Matt latos. That is how the successful small market teams go about it and I’m glad to see the reds appear to take that same path!

      • Joey Red

        With prospects you never know. Longtime fans like myself have seen this many many many times with the Reds. And regardless how good the prospects turn out to be if successful they will be traded away in yet another rebuild. I guess many Reds fans have just accepted the situation of being “small market”. For me being in a continuous state of rebuild isn’t the way to run a baseball franchise.

      • TR

        They are prospects. Time will tell, but it looks good and a needed turn has been made for Reds fans in a pretty depressing season. Nice to see a near 30,000 crowd at GABP last night.

      • Joey Red

        While I respect your opinion TR I think it’s depressing to see fire sales of Reds players again and again and again. I haven’t been to a Reds game in at least 5 years and will not go as long as the Reds take this course of action. As good as the prospects might be they are basically on loan because if successful they will be traded away for more prospects. You only have to look at history to see what I’m talking about. I don’t blame people for going to Reds games but it’s just lining the pockets of owners who don’t care if fans go or not. They make money either way.

    • Indy Red Man

      Yeah Fraley played half a season last year on a 20/20/90+ walk pace. That’ll work and when you compare Gabp to the dead air/big park in Seattle then Fraley might be able to do damage.

    • J

      I wonder if Dotson has somehow managed to forget that the Reds obtained Castillo by trading their best starting pitcher for prospects.

    • Bill

      That is what the block feature is for

  9. Votto4life

    Like everyone else I am excited about the return the Reds received for Luis Castillo. But I think we should also remember what type of talent the Reds have given up over the past year.

    It NL uses:

    An Ace and two time all star (Luis Castillo)
    Two former all star outfielders (Winker and Castellanos)
    A former all star third baseman (Suarez)
    A former all star pitcher (Sonny Gray)
    another pretty good pitcher (Wade Miley)
    A former gold glove catcher ( Tucker Barnhart)
    We are likely going to trade a solid #2 pitcher (Mahle)
    We are also likely going to trade our best offensive player in 2022 (Brandon Drury)

    So, while the Red’s front office is dangling a shining object in front of our eyes, never forget the Reds have traded or released a lot of talent in the past year or so.

    I also realize each of the players that got away had flaws, but all players do. Familiarity breeds contempt. I can assure you when/if the new guys make it to the Reds, people here will be eager to point out their flaws.

    • Bdh

      Reds didn’t give up Castellanos. He opted out of the remaining 2 years of his contract and then rejected the qualifying offer to sign for 1 million more with the Phillies. It’s fine with me. Gave the reds the extra pick which helped land Collier and the reds don’t have to pay for castellanos’s bad years like they are with Moose right now. Phillies fan are already booing him now so I can’t imagine how he’ll get treated 5 years from now

      Also on your list is Drury who likely wouldn’t even be a red if the other players on your list weren’t traded in the offseason. And of those players who’s really proving the reds wrong?

      Winker has a negative WAR right now as he’s having the worst year of his career

      Suarez is leading the mlb in strike outs

      Tucker (who id actually wouldn’t mind the reds signing as stephensons back up in the offseason) is homerless and hitting around .200

      Miley has thrown 19 innings all year

      Gray has pitched well this season but he’s missed a handful of starts due to injury and that’s likely why the reds traded him in the offseason rather than Mahle.

      Garrett, not on your list, last time I looked had an ERA hovering around 6

      Now maybe these players would’ve played better if they were still reds but nobody can say that for sure. With all the injuries the reds have had this season I don’t think they would have them contending for a playoff spot though. Would’ve been a shame to be stuck with underperforming vets and another playoff miss. That’s how the last rebuild started in 2014 and the returns for the outgoing players after they waited too long were nothing like they could’ve been

      The returns on the current rebuild are all starting to look good

      Barnhart trade – Quintana was thought by us fans originally to just be a random player for a payroll dump. While that’s mainly still true Quintana has put up a decent to solid season now in AA.

      Gray trade – Petty as a 19 year old just got promoted to A+ in Dayton Showing why he was Minnesota’s first round pick last year

      Winker/Suarez trade – Williamson and Phillips are both now in different top 100 lists. Fraley is at worst a platoon bat already in the pros and under control through 2027. If Dunn returns to how he pitched in Seattle then the reds have another young solid arm in the back of the rotation. That trade looks much better than it did when it happened. Good scouting to land Phillips as the PTBNL

      Garrett trade – minor has been bad. If any positives can be found here it’s that Garrett also isn’t doing anything to make them regret trading him and Minor at least has thrown a lot more innings than Miley.

      Then we have seen the good to great returns the last couple of days on Naquin and Castillo. At this point No reason to think Krall won’t land solid deals for Mahle, Drury, Solano, and Pham. He’s handling this rebuild 100x better than Williams or whoever was in charge of the last one

      • TR

        It appears Krall is at the onset of being recognized as a very competent MLB GM.

      • jon

        Excellent write up explaining everything.

      • Bill

        Agree with most of your points, my problem with the recent trades are
        1. Garrett for Minor, it makes no sense. They could have released Garrett and not taken on the $10 million Minor contract.
        2. Suarez/Winker. I don’t have a problem with trading Winker, but trading Winker to get rid of Suarez bothered me when they signed Pham and Salano immediately afterwards negating the savings. Winker to get rid of Moose would have made sense, or Winker by himself for a better return. Suarez may strike out a ton, but still hits for power and wasn’t really making that much money. I would have rather played him at DH and let him regain some trade value

      • Greenfield Red

        100% agree and with more explanation than I could offer.

      • JB

        @Bill- Maybe Krall tried to attach Moose with Winker and Seattle wouldn’t do it. Moose has been terrible as a Red and every Front Office probably knows that. Nobody was dumb enough to give him a 4 year 64 million dollar contract except the Reds. Why would they take him now?

      • Kevin H

        They are prospects, it is too early to tell. I would rather have Winker, Barnhart, Miley, Gray, Suarez on this team as to Pham, Garcia, Moose, Solano, Fraley, I mean say what you want but the Reds traded away or released or not resigned those who helped the reds to build something before uppermanagement tore it down!

        2020 playoffs, 2021 if not for bullpen playoffs, 2022 oh lets rebuild again.

      • Bill

        JB that is a good possibility, but I would have rather just kept Suarez and gotten a better return for Winker. Especially if they were going spend money on someone else anyhow. Had they not spent money on other questionable players it wouldn’t bother me to dump Suarez’s contract. If your going to tank and cut salary go all out, not some in between strategy

      • Jim Walker

        When Suarez isn’t striking out, he is OPS at a .747 clip good for an OPS+ of 116. He is currently at 2.1 bWAR for 2022.

        Guessing that to most folks who follow metric and stats, these are both more valuable than his K rate.

      • greenmtred

        Minor hasn’t worked out so far, but maybe he was viewed as a one year lefty innings eater. They did still have to field a team this season.

      • Earmbrister

        JW the strikeouts for Suarez are a constant. He’s currently leading the league and has lead it in the past. The Reds didn’t trade a strikeout prone mediocre defensive 3B who had an 116 OPS+. They traded that guy who went from an OPS+ of 131 in 2019, to 100 in 2020 to 82 (!) in 2021 with 574 PAs. $13MM for an 82 OPS+ is no longer a good value.

        I hope Suarez has turned his career around as he seems like a great guy; time will tell. However, Eugenio wasn’t going to be at his peak in the Reds next competitive window.

      • Bill

        I’m not sure why everyone is so concerned with the strike out numbers from Suarez. Joey Votto is the Reds all time strikeout leader, followed by Tony Perez and Johnny Bench. Strikeouts don’t tell the entire story of a hitter.

        You are correct he had a huge dropoff in performance after 2019, but the shoulder surgery in 2020 probably played a big role in that. I know my shoulder has never been the same after that same surgery.

        His OPS has gotten back up to the .750 range this year, which isn’t where it needs to be, but for me more than makes up for striking out a lot. I would have liked for him to be the DH with the hope that he increased his value enough to get something in return in 2023, instead of being a salary dump that likely reduced the return on Winker

      • Earmbrister

        Bill, come on. Are you really trying to legitimize Suarez’s strikeouts by comparing them to career totals of all-time reds greats? Guys who played 16 or 17 seasons vs the 7 seasons from Suarez?

        None of the guys you mentioned are notoriously big K guys except for Suarez. Compare the 162 game averages for each player:

        Suarez: 172
        Votto: 128
        Perez: 109
        Bench: 96

        Yeah, (career) strikeouts don’t tell the whole story.

        Suarez had his surgery before the 2020 season. A 100 OPS+ in ‘20 became an 82 OPS+ in ‘21. The Reds gave him plenty of time to rebuild his value yet his value continued to diminish.

        People are getting all excited about a .747 OPS for Suarez while lamenting the .724 OPS for Votto. Let’s see where both players are at the end of the season.

        The Reds did well getting seemingly good value for Winker (who I’d expect to rebound, but will get expensive) and Suarez (who I’m afraid is having a dead cat bounce of a season).

      • Tom Reeves

        It’s funny, if you made this argument on some blogs when the Winker, et al trades were made, you were lambasted with negativity. But your assessment is spot on.

        The Reds might be competitive in 2023. A bit more likely in 2024. It would take a disaster for the Reds to not be competitive from 2025-2028. They have no significant salary overhead beyond 2023. They have a mountain of prospect talent and will probably secure more for Mahle, Drury, and Solana. Not all that talent will make it. But odds are some of it will and there’s a good chance this is above average MLB talent for a sustained run. The Reds could even add a few heads to Stephenson and India’s contracts right now to extend the window.

      • Bill

        Earmbrister, I am not trying to legitimize anything. I’m simply stating facts, Suarez is providing above average production despite his strike outs. Yes he strikes out a lot, but he also hits 30 HRs a year. The only two players providing better production are Drury and Stephenson.

        You just don’t like the facts. If the Reds could afford Pham and Minor they could have just as easily kept Suarez. Luckily the Drury signing bailed them out

    • Joey Red

      I agree which is why I don’t put much faith in these moves by the Reds. As I’ve said before even if these prospects develop into good players they will be traded. It’s a vicious cycle especially for the fans who are constantly told success is just a couple of years away. This franchise will NEVER have long term success with this approach.

      • Jim Walker

        +500. A team has to take a stand at some point by extending some core players.

        The return on the Naquin and Castillo trades looks impressive at this point when taken with no context.

        The context I see is that a potential contender was disassembled to put the team into the situation where these trades needed to be made.

        Making all the moves rationalized above except moving Suarez and Winker would have freed up the funds to pay Suarez and Winker.

        There would have also been enough to buy a decent reliever or 2.

        Instead, that money is being thrown at Minor, Pham and Colin Moran.

        Instead of being a playoff contender on virtually the same budget, the Reds are on, they are a laughing stock of MLB; and, fans are praying this rebuild will be different and better than the last one which didn’t fail nearly as much as it was simply abandoned just as it was approaching a point of paying dividends on the field which clearly don’t matter as much to ownership as cash money dividends.

      • Daytonnati

        If memory serves me correctly, the last tear-down and rebuild of a “core” team brought us Dilson Herrara, John Lamb, Brandon Finnegan, Cody Reed, Brandon Dixon, Jose Peraza, Scott Schebler, Adam Duvall, Keury Mella, Rookie Davis, Matt Harvey, Alex Wood, Kyle Farmer, and Yaseil Puig. In retrospect, it sure seems like a fire sale.

      • Tom Reeves

        The reason they’ve been traded is because the Reds haven’t had enough free cash to shore up their gaps (except for 2020 and Covid wrecked that plan) and had too little talent develop at the same time. The Reds have enough minor league talent and should have enough cash free to sustain a run from 2025-2030. It’s possible it starts in 2024. But there’s a window coming. There are a few gaps in the current prospect pool. 1B is a gap. OF is a gap. But middle infield, CF, catcher, and pitching is both deep with high ceilings.

        In the meantime, let’s enjoy the Cincinnati Burrows for a change.

  10. DaveCT

    Tyler Mahle is now gone .. so be it!

    • TR

      If Mahle is traded, I hope it’s for outfield help especially a young , good hitting right fielder with good defensive skills. Someone similar to Paul O’Neil would be perfect.

  11. GreatRedLegsFan

    Thinking about next season’s opening roster BP, if healthy: Antone, Sims, Diaz, Santillan, Hoffman, Cessa, Sanmartin & Moreta, plus Warren & Kuhnel in AAA.

      • MBS

        It’s Cessa’s last year of arb, so they could just walk away from him. I really hope they sign a closer, and a setup man, but they got some good pieces to fill out the rest of the pen.

    • Kevin H

      I would keep 4 of those pitchers you listed. Diaz, Santillan, Sanmartin, and Moreta. Reds need bullpen arms!! if they want to even compete. If not we will see a repeat of the last two season’s.

  12. Doc4uk

    Sims and Antone back and healthy would go a long way in helping the BP. Diaz and San Martin and perhaps Detwiler and Moreta look like keepers. Hoffman and Strickland and Cessa and Warren and Kuhnel are too inconsistent . Wonder if anyone can tell us how many games we have blown this year alone when leading after 7 innings. It may be enough to get us to .500 . So strengthen the BP this off season and spend money in doing so recognizing that both Votto and Moose come off the books after 2023.

    • Jim Walker

      Sims and Antone are fools’ gold at this point until they prove differently on the field. Plan as if they don’t exist and be glad if they do and leverage the excess to strengthen the team elsewhere.

  13. Doc4uk

    Unless the Reds can get two of the Dodgers Top 5 Prospects , then I would not trade Mahle and would try to extend him

    • JohnnyTV

      Agreed.
      I don’t think the so-called “Fall Off” for holding onto Mahle to off season or next year will be quite what folks were predicting for Castillo.

      I like the idea of resigning Mahle…as an example for Lodolo, Ashcraft, Greene, et al.

      You come up through our system. Perform. Stick with us and you’ll be rewarded.

      Counting on Overton’s return is way premature.

      Watching Dunn and Minor two out of every five days is going to be grim.

      Hang on to Mahle and avoid going out and spending bad money finding some Minor / Dunn ‘innings nibbler’ on the cheapskate.

  14. Jim t

    Drury not in lineup today. Wonder if a deal is in the making?

      • Michael Wilson

        Just a wild prediction here, I think Drury or Pham will go to the Braves. Braves had success last season adding pieces to their playoff drive. No blockbuster deal just role players.

  15. Bryant

    I am not so sure we really even have a rebuild going on. Instead, my hunch is that Castellini has simply switched to a different business model in which “labor costs“ are paired to the bone so the franchise can be relatively risk-free for him. Unfortunately, this means there will be a few if any contracts for players with over six years of service. I suspect that this is what Castellini told Dick Williams when Williams suddenly had an irresistible urge to spend more time with his family. before the Reds surged in August 2000, one can easily imagine Castellini becoming furious with the money he had committed to a team that was not working out the way he had hoped. With TV contracts and other non-fan-based revenue, my hunch is that can show a modest profit if he limits roster to five year players.

  16. J

    I’m certainly no fan of the people running this organization, but I’m also somewhat baffled by the folks who seem to think the Reds should be trying to hold on to guys like Castellanos, Castillo, etc. by whatever means necessary. As ridiculous as this organization may be, it’s simply not realistic to think it’s going to become a winner by offering big contracts to all the stars it wants to keep/attract. Whatever the Reds are willing to spend on top talent, the Dodgers, Yankees, Phillies, etc. are always going to be able to outbid them.

    Moreover, the thing that’s gotten the Reds into the most trouble this year hasn’t been its “low” paid young guys who are “only” making a million or two, it’s been the guys making the most money: Votto, Moose, Shogo, Minor, Pham, etc. The players who’ve been by far the most valuable this year are the ones who were NOT being paid big bucks to play for the Reds: Castillo, Ashcraft, Mahle, Lodolo, Drury, India, TS, Diaz, Senzel, Farmer, Solano, Naquin, etc. Some of those guys were “prospects” until quite recently; none of them was a star when the Reds acquired him. None of those guys required a $100 million commitment. Based on current stats (and what I know about their defensive skills), Castellanos or Winker probably wouldn’t be helping this team any more than AA or Naquin probably would. Drury has been better than Suarez. Doesn’t everyone notice how much better off this team would have been this year if it had a lot more of those “unproven” guys and fewer of the “proven” ones? We’d be so much better off if Bell didn’t feel obligated to hit Pham third and Votto fourth every single day, send Minor out there every fifth day, or play Moose ever.

    Would I like this team to be able to keep Castillo for the next six or seven years? Sure. Does it make sense for them to pay him enough to do it? Probably not. Would I like him back next year? Of course. But did it make sense to do it if it’s not part of a longer-term deal? Probably not. I’m not sure it ever makes sense for this team to go after those kinds of players until baseball decides it’s time to stop allowing the wealthiest teams to determine the “market price” of free agents.

  17. Votto4life

    It always makes me laugh when fans get really excited about the Reds saving money by trading away their most talented players. Is that the goal? I always thought it was to win baseball games.

    Are you guys accountants or baseball fans?

    This organization has a fire sale every few years and people get so excited because the team gets rid of this contract or that contract.

    How many times does Lucy have to pull the football away for people to realize they are being sold a bill of goods?

    By all means be excited about the prospects the Reds acquired this weekend.

    When 2025. Rolls around you can get all excited again when you see how much money the Reds will save when they trade India and Stephenson to the highest bidder.

    • Greenfield Red

      I understand the sentiment, but given the type of return, young and talented, rather than “major league ready”, this different. This is building a winner.

      • Votto4life

        I hope you are right Greenfield Red but we have been down this path several times before.

        Do you think the Reds will extend India, Stephenson, Greene and Lodolo? Because they is how you build a winner. I just don’t see the Reds doing it.

      • Earmbrister

        V4LIFE, The Reds have committed to big contracts in the past, including the recent past. Covid came seemingly out of nowhere right when the Reds pushed their chips to the middle of the table. Rather than try to cling to a slightly above average core they’ve chosen to build for the future. In my 50 years of fandom I can not remember a time when the Reds had this much excellent young pitching. They are generally going about it the right way (there are going to be some hits and some misses) and I’m optimistic about the future.

    • J

      Everyone loves keeping the good players, but it’s pretty hard to know which players are going to remain good, or for how long. The Reds got themselves in trouble precisely by investing big money in multi-year contracts: Moose, Suarez, Shogo, Votto (which I don’t think was a bad contract overall, but clearly it’s hurting the 2022 team), plus throwing $10 million at a bad veteran pitcher. The players who are helping this team the most are the ones who weren’t lured by big money. The ones with big contracts are the main problems. Castellanos wouldn’t have fixed things. Neither would Winker or Suarez or Miley. It’s easy for us to sit here and say the Reds ought to spend $100 million on this guy and $120 million on that guy and $60 million on the other guy, and maybe they can technically afford to do it, but it’s not necessarily a guarantee of any success. It can actually come back to bite you if those guys don’t pan out the way you’re hoping, because then you’re stuck with them the way this team is stuck with various overpaid veterans.

      • J

        Correction: Minor wasn’t lured to the Reds; they inexplicably traded for him. But my point remains the same: paying big money for veteran guys, who then get in the way of more talented (but unproven) guys, isn’t always the way to win games.

  18. Votto4life

    On Friday the Reds traded one of the best pitchers in baseball for a few 18 and 19 year olds who may or may not ever reach the major leagues.

    Spin it how you will, but I don’t know how any Reds fan can be happy about it. You are reacting exactly how Phil Castellini is hoping you would.

    • J

      He isn’t tricking me into believing this organization is better off with four good prospects than one more year of one great pitcher. That’s my own brain doing the math.

      I wonder what my reaction should have been when the Reds traded their ace at that time, Dan Straily, for three prospects? Guy was 14-8 for a team that lost 94 games, still in his 20s and still under team control for a few years, and they gave him away for three young prospects. Was I supposed to be outraged by that? I was sorry to lose a quality major league pitcher, but excited about the prospects, including this one young fellow named Castillo. Was I duped?

      • Votto4life

        Or you know, the Reds could extend that great pitcher? And perhaps add players to build around him so the team could I don’t know, win ball games?.

        But no, the Reds front office has us conditioned that adding and keeping talent is just crazy talk.

        So, they will just continue to sell fans on a future that never arrives. And there will be plenty of sycophants out here who will spout Nick Krall’s party line while dying Thank You Sir, May I have another?