The game started out great for Cincinnati as Jonathan India crushed a leadoff home run to put the Reds in front. From there everything fell apart and at times in embarrassing fashion as the Cardinals grabbed a 7-1 lead by the time the 3rd inning was over and they never looked back in an 11-3 win over the last place Reds.

Final R H E
Cincinnati Reds (34-57)
3 4 2
St. Louis Cardinals (50-44)
11 12 2
W: Mikolas (7-7) L: Lodolo (2-3)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

The Offense

After Jonathan India’s leadoff home run the Reds offense went silent for the next seven innings. In the 8th inning they did get things moving after starter Miles Mikolas left the game. Two walks sandwiched around an error loaded the bases and led to another pitching change. Brandon Drury welcomed Johan Oviedo to the game with a 2-run single to make it an 8-3 game. That was all they’d get in the inning, though, as back-to-back strikeouts ended the inning.

The Pitching

Much like the top of the 1st inning, the bottom of it didn’t look so bad for the Reds at the start. Tommy Edman led off with a single, but Nick Lodolo retired the next two batters. That’s when things began to fall apart as he walked the next three batters and then hit Edmundo Sosa to put St. Louis ahead 2-1 before getting the final out of the inning.

Tommy Edman singled again in the 2nd inning, but Lodolo once again had two outs before things then started to fall apart. Paul Goldschmidt hit a 2-run homer to make it 4-1. Albert Pujols followed up with a single before Lodolo hit Tyler O’Neill and Brendan Donovan to load the bases. Edmundo Sosa then singled off of Lodolo’s foot, driving in a run and making it 5-1. He’d strike out Lars Nootbaar to end the inning, but it would be the final batter he saw on the day.

Things didn’t get better when Jeff Hoffman came out for the 3rd inning as he allowed two more runs as the Cardinals grabbed a 7-1 lead. In the 7th inning St. Louis got some help from the defense as an error led to their 8th run of the day.

After Cincinnati scored twice in the top of the 8th to make it an 8-3 game, the Hunter Strickland experience continued as he allowed back-to-back singles to begin the inning before Lars Nootbar hit a 3-run homer to make it 11-3. That wound up being the final score.

Notes Worth Noting

If you know you know

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

Cincinnati Reds vs St. Louis Cardinals

Sunday July 17th, 2:15pm ET

Graham Ashcraft (4-2, 4.45 ERA) vs Steven Matz (3-3, 6.03 ERA)

92 Responses

  1. Mark Moore

    Definitely a “Milton” kind of a game. Almost glad to see him again after his absence.

    I tapped out early and only checked in briefly (not on video, just scoreboard). Some of the themes from “League of Their Own” come to mind. It’s a product and people won’t come to see a poor product. I know I have zero thoughts of engineering a trip to Cincy this year. I cancelled the planned on last September when we went on that wretched streak to end all chances in 2021. No reason to make the trip this year.

    Onward to the Sunday getaway and the break.

    • Mark Moore

      If it weren’t for this forum and all of my friends here, I’m not sure how I could survive this season.

      • Rednat

        Plus 1 million. Comment of the year

  2. VaRedsFan

    They beat the Yankees so it’s all good.
    Looks like they are playing like the got 1 foot out the All Star Break door.

  3. TR

    A win tomorrow is needed for a split road trip going into the All-Star period with trade time coming up.

  4. Pat

    Why is Strickland still on the major league roster? Even I know what’s going to happen when he comes in to pitch and I’m an old lady who know squat about managing a baseball team. This is an embarrassment of a baseball team.

    • Grand Salami

      Don’t sell yourself short! But you are correct. Ray Charles could see what Hunter Strickland is capable of.

  5. Daytonnati

    I rarely give up on a game. I gave up last night and I gave up again today, even earlier. I mentioned it being unbearable to watch last night … it was the same today. It was how my friends who hate baseball describe it to me. Nothing much ever changes. If our starter can go 7 and we have a 4 or 5-run lead, there is a chance we win. If the starter goes early, it’s over.

    That series against the Yankees will be the highlight of the year.

    • Jim Walker

      Yeah, I am not sure I will even check in on Sunday. After the lackluster performance today, I may declare myself on break until things restart after the ASB. I never watch any of the All Star doings anyway.

  6. Hotto4Votto

    Milton should just go ahead and replace Mr Redleg as the mascot.

  7. west larry

    Hello Milton. I can’t say that I’m happy to see you again, but the way this team is playing the cardinals, you are the face of this franchise. It’s puzzling-the way the reds played the rays and the yanks, I thought the team turned a corner. Now they are playing like they did the first 25 games of the season. Very disheartening


  8. Moon

    After that performance I expect Lodolo to get moved to the IL

  9. RedsGettingBetter

    Idk but i think when the Reds score in first inning as visiting team the home club responses tying or taking the lead in a high percentage of the times…
    Greene and Lodolo struggled a lot on both games. To be honest , the Reds have played bad baseball vs STL but the Cards good luck is always present I insist…Graham Ashcraft is the hope to take one game out of this series before ASG break…

  10. JohnnyTV

    Reds bullpen came into the game with the worst ERA in MLB and built on that, giving up six runs in seven innings.

    Just when you acknowledge how miserably bad the bullpen is, they show you up by performing even worse.

    Strickland’s performance is worthy of some praise. He gave up three runs in one inning without walking a single batter.

    Reds bullpen take note: You can perform just as poorly without wasting your time walking hitters.

    • Daytonnati

      As Doug says, “The Hunter Strickland Experience” …

    • JB

      “Reds bullpen take note: You can perform just as poorly without wasting your time walking hitters.”

      At this point in time Johnnytv I would take a walk free game from the bullpen. It will be something positive.

  11. B-town fan

    Baseball is a funny game, the Reds beat 2 AL east playoff bound teams 2 out of 3 in each series and one of them the Yankees could be the best team in baseball, and could have swept them in the 2nd game if extra innings would have went a little different with out the 2 wild pitches. Then they come back to the NL central and get pounded by the Cardinals in 2 games like the Reds have been for pretty much the last 20 years.

    • Andrew Brewer

      Actually swept the Rays 3 of 3, and won the first one against the yankees making their first 5 game in a row streak… The Cardinals pretty much own the Reds as you noted. Like one comment above, the Reds taking two of three from the Yankees in New York… it will be the highlight of this season. Hey, they knocked out the Yankee closer with his 0.46 ERA with 4 runs in the 9th…

      • B-town fan

        Yes the Reds did sweep the Rays, I don’t know what I was thinking when I wrote that. But it does prove my point more strongly, wining against two of the strongest teams in baseball and the Cardinals dominating the Reds for almost all of the 2000’s.

      • Grand Salami

        I would trade a Tampa sweep for 2-3 against the Cards in StL every single time. Hate that team. Dusty handled them and no one sense. Bell seems to be their bullied little brother.

  12. Mark A Verticchio

    Right now the best, most reliable, arm might be San Martin. I didn’t see that coming but, besides maybe Diaz, not today, what competition is there.

    • JayTheRed

      Every decent or good pitcher is going to have a bad day from time to time. The problem with the Reds bullpen is that we have a lot of bad to mediocre pitchers in the bullpen. So, it makes it a lot worse.

    • SteveaReno

      Yes, Rever Sanmartin’s last nine or ten games has only one ER. I would pitch him two innings every time. Looks like his time in Louisville was productive

  13. JB

    After these 2 games we can take our rose colored glasses off. This team is between terrible and average. They have a ton of holes to fill. Like I said in the game feed, front office hasn’t spent good money on a free agent relief pitcher since Coco Codero in 2007. Haven’t had a good lefty since Chapman left in what 2016? Every year it’s something with this team. Good pitching, bad hitting. Good hitting ,bad pitching. They can’t stop the leaks. I don’t see this team competitive until at least 2024. They are going to have to spend money. The cupboard is dry in AAA and I don’t see alot in the lower affiliates beside Cruz and some pitchers. A ball and rookie ball its early. It’s officially bad.

    • JayTheRed

      Honestly, I would be shocked if this team won a playoff series as long as Castellini owns the team.

  14. LDS

    The best a Reds fan can hope for today is another loss by the Cubs. Some firings, and an ownership change. And they’ll likely not get any of it.

    • Kevin H

      Show fans you care. Fire the manager or coaches. Something.. Will it help who knows.

      • LDS

        Maybe, maybe not. But doing the same thing day after day certainly isn’t. PH for the hottest hitter on the team, etc. etc. doesn’t inspire fan confidence. And as I said earlier, the Cards are better than the Reds but hardly on par with the NYY or maybe not even TB.

      • greenmtred

        The something would be spending enough to acquire good players. I’ve never been a fan of eyewash.

  15. JayTheRed

    Wow, pitching was ugly today. Good thing I didn’t watch the game.

  16. JayTheRed

    Oh man I almost missed seeing Milton!!!!! It’s about time we see his smiling face again. This team I just don’t get it.

  17. Roger Garrett

    Reds are what they are with many holes to fill but I will ride it to after the trade deadline just to see what if anything happens.Not concerned about the young starting pitching but am concerned about what is being taught.I can’t imagine that everybody we send out to start or relieve can’t throw strikes.Got to be something there when just about the whole staff is prone to walk hitters and it never seems to get any better.Reds hitters never seem to walk probably because they start swinging in the dugout.All I see is throw as hard as you can and swing as hard as you can.Maybe we need a new pitching and a new hitting coach or maybe we just need a complete roster overall cause what we do ain’t working.Don’t see how we can continue to go down the same road with the same people driving and expect to suddenly turn it around.Running the bases and the other fundamentals of the game often look like little league and if we have a coach thats assigned to that then he needs fired.It appears and is more likely that nobody wants to speak up and bring these things to the attention of the people responsible.Just really tired of hearing players are working hard and it will get better because it won’t.Reds obviously were satisfied with a couple of wins in New York as one player put it nobody can take that away from us.Sad they would say that and then not show up the next two games but it was there season I guess beating the Yankees.

    • Bill J

      Nothing will change because that means the FO was wrong and they can’t admit that ever. I’m they have over rated the manager and coaches and are just poor judges of of people.

  18. Jeff Morris

    Especially the bullpen, but most of Reds pitchers have trouble with walks. I know the Reds rank at the bottom of the league with bullpen ERA, but they have to rank at the bottom with walks allowed.

  19. Old-school

    So maybe its time to admit the 2022 roster , including Joey Votto isnt part of the solution. Joey Votto is done as a reds Offensive leader.. until people realize that..why even talk about 2023.

    But people wont admit its time to move on and admit Joey votto isnt part of the Reds Solution….so just get swept by the Cards and lose 100 and still believe in a 39 yo $32 million tooth fairy. Reds arent going anywhere. Krall needs to sell and blow up this roster because people still believe Votto is the first baseman in 2023. Love the guy…but Votto is not the future so need to still get humiliated. Cards doing a great job of that.

    Votto is a great former player….but cant move forward until people stop living in the past. Let’s go forward with Votto at 1b and moose at 3b and DH in 2023???? Really? Insanity but thats what this franchise does. It’s unbelievable how Votto and Moose contracts have hi jacked this team moving forward. there’s no reason to spend a dime in 2023.
    Blow it up
    Blow it up

    • Redleg1869

      Love JV and what he’s been and done, but JV no longer “bangs.” Last year was awesome but he’s a liability now. If he can hit 250 with oath some power, fine. Throw in his bad defense and horrendous base running, and he unfortunately has little value if he’s gonna hot 200. But I know what he’s being paid so he’s probably going nowhere. Winning doesn’t seem a priority. That being said, the Reds are bad for many reasons. JV is not the only issue.

    • Votto4life


      What is the name of this great prospect you Joey Votto is currently blocking?

    • AllTheHype

      The problem isn’t necessarily Votto as the 1B in 23. It is Votto in the 23 lineup with Bell making out the lineup card, not recognizing vintage Votto is no more.

  20. Mark A Verticchio

    Moose needs to be traded, won’t happen, or let go, Votto needs to be told to either retire or accept a very diminished role. They need to cut or trade everybody but 1. India 2. Stephenson 3. Senzel 4. maybe Drury 5. Fairchild = 4th or 5th outfielder 6. Solano or Farmer = super sub 7. Greene 8. Lodolo 9. Ashcraft 10. Diaz 11. San Martin 12.Kuhnel. That will pretty much change the entire roster and while there at it get a whole new coaching staff and General Manager. I realize this is crazy but what they have been doing isn’t working. New faces from within 1. Mcgarry 2. Mclain 3. ELDC 4. Dunn 5. Williamson 6. Abbot 7. Barrero and many more along with trade pick ups. This team would most likely be awful for awhile but they would be young and have a future unlike what they put out their every day now.

    • Kevin H

      Sadly Mark some would moan and groan about the young guys not winning.

      • Mark A Verticchio

        Maybe so but, let’s use the model the Astros did years ago, that turned out ok.

    • MadMike

      Mark, i totally agree with you.

      However those Astros had 2 big advantages, they stripped the roster to the studs and cleaned house as part of a sale to new ownership (who were patient and had deep pockets), and that team accelerated their rebuild by doing things like buying draft picks in a free sgent comp system that no longer exists. Without those advantages the future could just as easily turn into a decade of Yinzer-like futility under current ownership.

    • Jimbo44CN

      I agree except for Fairchild, he has shown absolutely nothing except in his first at bat homer. Just another in a long line of Friedels, Fraley, Mark Payton, etc. Plus, not that great in the outfield either. What I don’t understand is why Shrock is not playing, makes no sense.

  21. Kevin H

    So it’s Vottos fault the Reds have a terrible team. A Terrible bullpen.

    I realize Votto is struggling at the plate. He, however isn’t the problem. The problem is you trade Suarez, Winker, Barnhart, Grey, wavie Miley and have a worse bullpen than last year. That is the problem.. blaming one player to me is just silly

    • Old-school

      Wake up dude

      You living in 2017

      Its about solutions!!!!’

      Its about 2024 !!!!

      Votto is a great red

      Do you want to win?

      If you do… you Will wake up and live in the present and future . Votto isnt either

      • Votto4life

        Joey Votto isn’t blocking anyone. You keep talking about 2024 like the Red’s farm system is chalk full of blue chip prospects. They have a grand total of ONE and he is playing SS in A ball right now.

        You are going to be awful disappointed two years from now, if you really think this team will be positioned to win in 2024.

      • Jim Walker

        V4L> Votto is blocking the opportunity to see if Stephenson would provide the offense at 1B to justify moving him out from the plate. They are not going to know that answer until TS is relieved from the mental and physical stress of catching and is instead playing 1B five or six days a week over a period of time. Papierski and Kolozsvary are competent receivers. Splitting the catching between them also opens the opportunity to see if one of them can hit enough to be an everyday catcher.

      • Hanawi

        Putting Stephenson at first just opens a bigger hole at catcher. Have you seen the guys the Reds have gone through behind the plate this year other than him? I really have no idea why anyone thinks moving Stephenson full-time is good plan.

      • Votto4life

        Jim Walker,

        Other than this blog, I have not read or heard anything from the Reds that the team intends to move Stephenson to first base.

        Maybe the Reds don’t want to move Stephenson to first base. Maybe they feel, like I do, that moving Tyler to first base would be diminish his value to the team.

        Tyler Stephenson’s value to this team is that he is rare commodity..a catcher who can hit.

        As a catcher, Tyler Stephenson is maybe the best at his position in the National league. If you move him from catcher to 1B, where would he rank among other the first basemen in the league?

        Maybe the Reds know that it would be much easier to replace a first basemen than it would be replacing a catcher who can hit.

        If the Reds had plans of moving Tyler Stephenson to first base, why didn’t they used him there when Joey was injured or just needed a day off? Stephenson has played a grand total of one game at first base this season.

        The Reds traded Tucker Barnhart in-part, because they wanted Stephenson to be their starting catcher.

        Regardless of the reason, the Reds seemingly have no intention of moving Tyler Stephenson to first base or at least they haven’t discussed it publicly. As long as that is the case, I come back to my earlier point, Joey Votto isn’t blocking anyone.

      • Tar Heel Red

        At the risk of offending, comments like Hanawi’s enrage me! Are we so callous that we are willing to risk the career/health of a player for the sake of winning games. Concussions are not to be trifled with, and Stephenson has suffered three. The next one could be the one that ends a very promising career. It has happened many times…maybe you have heard of some of these players…Buster Posey (career ended prematurely), Justin Morneau and Mike Matheny (ended their careers), Joe Mauer (forced to move to 1B), Ryan Freel (contributed to his death). This is but a few examples. Do fans realize there are 14 active catchers who have suffered at least one concussion.
        This is why caring fans are concerned about Tyler Stephensond and don’t give a rip about the void at catcher and/or who replaces him.

      • Luke J

        Tar Heel Red, the only solution to your position is to get rid of the position of catcher. Otherwise, throwing any player back there is a calous threat to his health, according to your logic. The reality, Stephenson is a catcher, wants to be a catcher, and understands the risk of the position. Who are you to claim we should all feel guilty that he’s a catcher? Get out of here with that.

      • Earmbrister

        V4Life, I couldn’t have said it better. Tyler Stephenson is a huge asset to this team at catcher. You don’t take one of the best catchers in the game and turn them into a mediocre first baseman. His bat is plus plus at the catcher position and just above average at first base.

        And Votto is not blocking anyone at first base. McGarry just got moved up to AA mid season. He needs to develop and prove that his AA success is not a short term fluke. There is no one in the organization that is ready to take over at 1B this year, or even next year.

      • VaRedsFan

        Ty has had 3 concussions.
        1 in high school.
        1 in single A
        1 this year.
        So 1 concussion in what….the last 5 years?

        That’s probably less than the average MLB catcher.

        Some guys want to trade for a stud catching prospect. Why would you guys want our new stud prospect behind the plate catching? All the “dangers”

        Someone has to catch, and the Reds have one of the best.
        Leave him there until he’s 30, then he can play 1B.

    • LDS

      Trading Suarez and Winker was the right move. I agree if folks want to question the return but the Reds would be no better off with those guys in the lineup. Holding on to Barnhart and playing Stephenson in place of Votto, in retrospect, would have been a better move. But with Barnhart around, Bell wouldn’t use him as much. Votto, like Farmer, is going to start regularly, regardless of who is on the roster. Waiving Miley and signing Minor? Well, that’s hard to justify, although Miley has missed most of the year. The Gray trade will depend on what Petty becomes. The biggest loss from last year is Castellanos. That’s just unfathomable given how cheaply he signed with Philly. These are all examples of why I’m Leary of Krall trading Castillo – I’m guessing he’ll be overmatched by nearly every other GM in the league.

      • Jim Walker

        Castellanos is now being painted as the scapegoat in Philly. Krall should get on the phone and find out if the Phils would swap the contract of Castellanos for the contract of Moose. It might just go through. And there would be your 1B (NC) to leave TS behind the plate where we know he plays as an outstanding offensive guy at that spot.

      • Indy Red Man

        Amazing that Seattle just won their 13th straight with sad sacks Winker and Suarez in the middle of their lineup. Suarez is Mike Schmidt compared to Moose and Winker is warming up big time

      • TR

        Good for the Mariners. I’ve gotten over the trade of Winker and Suarez and feel Drury and Pham have been more than adequate replacements. A possible trade of Drury that includes Moustakas regardless of the return looks interesting. India could then return to his natural position at third base.

    • Luke J

      Surely you don’t think Suarez, Winker, Barnhart, Miley, etc… would make this a better team. They are more of the same of what we have, only worse in some cases. Pham’s been better than Winker this year in left. Drury’s been better than Suarez at 3rd. Stephenson every day is better than Barnhart half the time. Miley and Gray have been hurt all year. So we got some high level prospects for those guys and end up with better replacements that have short contracts that we can dump when we need to move on.

      • Still a Red

        Willing to give Krall credit for all those moves?

    • greenmtred

      Any catcher is at risk, yes, but Stephenson has already had three concussions, so his risk is elevated.

      • VaRedsFan

        1 in the last 5 years.
        1 in high school…1 in Single A

    • Votto4life

      Jim Walker,

      Maybe I missed it, but I haven’t read anywhere (except here) that the Reds are moving Tyler Stephenson to first base.

      Maybe Tyler doesn’t want to play first base. Maybe the Reds don’t want to move him. Maybe they feel, like I do, that he is much more valuable behind the plate.

      As a catcher, Tyler Stephenson is one of the top players at his position. As a first basemen, he would be middle of the pack at best. Put another way, it will be far easier for the Reds to find a first basemen than it would be to find a catcher who can hit.

      Back to my point, if the Reds have no intention of moving Tyler Stephenson to first base, then exactly who is Joey Votto blocking??

      • Old-school

        @4VL- Enjoy your contributions and going back and forth a little. You are a great Reds fan and for the record Joey Votto is my second favorite Red of all time behind Johnny Bench. It’s just the only reason to watch this team in 2022 is to see signs of hope for 2023/24. Even the most ardent Votto guy has to admit he is in decline and 1 year from now he will be in his final few months as a Red. It’s not out of the question a year from now, Votto would ok a trade to a contender if the Reds are not a contender(unlikely).

        The Move Stephenson to first baseman movementakes no sense in a vacuum. You are correct that a great hitting catcher is a big positional “win” comparing the Reds to other teams at each position and so rolling out Stephenson each day at catcher is a great Reds advantage. Everyone agrees Stephenson is a good young hitter. Comparing him against his catching hitting peers vs potential 1b hitting peers certainly argues to keep him as catcher.

        Where we differ is risk tolerance. The risk of losing Stephenson to another catching injury is too great IMO. Hes the future of the franchise and a great hitter and needs to hit in 150 games a year. What better way to ensure Stephenson plays 150 games a year than moving him to 1b? It’s a mitigation strategy. 3 Concussions are a serious thing and should not be trivialized. Catching beats you up and Stephenson at an early age has sustained some significant catching related injuries.

        We will see if the Reds are entertaining any such thoughts. I dont think they are but the Draft tonight and the Trade deadline in 2 weeks will tell. If the Reds draft a Catcher tonight at 18 or trade Castillo and the headline prospect in return is a catcher…then the Reds are looking at TS moving positions. Otherwise, there’s no credible internal catching options and this argument will go away August 2nd…..until Stephenson’s next injury.

  22. MBS

    Is Drury a big enough trade piece to tack on Moustakas to a big market club? Who’d care about a return, if that was possible. That would open up the budget quite a bit in 23.

    I saw someone mention it on MLBTR the other day, and laughed. Now I’m thinking it might be possible, maybe with another useful piece tacked on to those 2 like a top 20 prospect.

    • Bill

      Only if the Reds send the cash to pay his salary next year. Drury is a rental, Moose comes with another year of paychecks

    • VaRedsFan

      What Bill said.
      So the real answer is no. The other team would immediately cut Moose, while the Reds pay his salary. Might as well cut Moose ourselves, and keep Drury.

  23. Rednat

    i would like to see Bell utilize Votto the way Pete utilized Davey at the end of his career. concepcion started about 50 games in each of his last 2 years but was used a lot as a pinch hitter in big situations. he had a lot of big hits for the very good reds teams from 86-88 off the bench. he batted .319 in 1987!

    Bell should really try to accentuate Vottos stats by starting him only against right handers and using him in pinch hit situations where he can really create some fun memories for his last year.

    • Jim Walker

      As I have recounted in comments here recently, Pete Rose as player/ manager simply quit writing his name into the starting lineup and stopped using himself off the bench over a 3-4 week period at mid season in 1986.

      Several years earlier (1983), Johnny Bench announced during the season that he could no longer play to a standard acceptable to himself and was calling it a career at the end of the season.

      Maybe Bell is trying to give Votto the courtesy of making his own decision on stepping back into a part time role or even calling it a career given the situation of the team.

      • Still a Red

        I think Votto would do the same as Bench if he truly felt he was at the end. But his turn around last year would give anyone pause. If he can’t turn it around again, maybe he’ll feel he’s done. But with one year left, he may think he has one more left in the tank.

  24. Mr.Redlegs2022

    The Reds have the worst team ERA in baseball! They could have prime Votto at first right now and I doubt it would make a huge difference in wins. Hunter Greene isn’t ready. Lodolo isn’t ready. Minor has started to look better lately but surely isn’t the answer. Mahle has underperformed and is currently injured. The bullpen has been decimated with injuries only a few have risen to the occasion. The problems are pretty much everywhere! Even the young position players can’t stay healthy: Stephenson, India, & Senzel. Senzel’s career has been underwhelming. I think it’s time for some of you all to put things into perspective. In virtually the same amount of AB’s, Nick Senzel has 9 extra base hits to Votto’s 23! And Votto’s obp is still higher than a young guy who should be nearing his prime! This is a bad team overall. Senzel has a -.5 wins above replacement and India is -1.1! But 75% of this blog is complaining about Joey Votto…

    • Mark A Verticchio

      The answer to that is simple Senzel might, and I mean might, be part of the Reds future but in no way is Votto part of the teams long term future. Votto has been a great but to totally re-build this franchise they have to let go of the past, I didn’t say forget about it, just honor it and move on to the next hopeful contender. Everybody you mention accept Votto and Minor could be part of the Reds future.

    • Votto4life

      Mr. Redlegs,

      You win post of the day! Thank you

    • Jimbo44CN

      Here here. NOT Joey’s fault. Team would be bad with Tony Perez at first base.

  25. Mark A Verticchio

    Good luck getting Bell to do the right thing when it comes to Votto. I don’t think either Bell or Votto will do what’s best for this team in the long run.

    • Earmbrister

      Who would MAV play at 1B over Votto? There aren’t any legit 1Bmen on the roster.

      • VaRedsFan

        Drury 1B
        Solano/Schrock/Farmer 3rd.

    • Votto4life

      Again Mark who is Joey Votto blocking?? No one can answer that question because the answer is he is blocking absolutely no one.

  26. Mark A Verticchio

    I would play Votto against right handers the rest of the year and play Stephenson at first against Lefties. I would also move Votto down in the order. However this plan could change if they get a possible replacement in a trade. You act like those of us who want to move on from Votto are against him and that is not it at all. I just realize that this team is at least 2 years away and Votto will not be part of that team. Another idea would be, to move Drury to first base, at times, if they plan to keep him.

    • Earmbrister

      Then it would appear that you and I mostly agree on Votto. It’s easy to say Votto needs to be replaced, but much harder to actually replace him. Saying that he should start vs right handlers means he’s starting say 75% of the time. The other 25% is more problematic. Stephenson has only started 17 games at 1B in his career (none this year) with only 11complete games there. Drury has three times as many games in his career, and those numbers are 19 GS and 15 CG at 1B. And 12 of those games started were in 2019 with the Blue Jays, and TOR didn’t play him there at all in 2020 (small sample size). He’s well traveled and none of his prior teams played him extensively at 1B.

      And who wants to see Moustakas at first base?

      Which leaves us with an aging Hall of Famer at first base. We could do worse.

      I do agree that Votto could be moved down in the order, but with this lineup it wouldn’t be far.

  27. JohnnyTV

    Despite the logic of many of these suggestions, we won’t be seeing much if any of these changes this year.

    The list of names folks are demanding (expecting?) to be traded is long and few, if any of them, are in reality desirable to other teams.

    Stephensen isn’t moving to first base in anything approaching the near future. However sensible that might seem in the long run.
    Moose or Drury will be spelling Votto at least through ’22 and maybe again in ’23.

    I would be amazed if Pham, Minor, Farmer, Naquin or even Drury wound up getting traded. Serious downsides or looming FA with each of them.

    Bell won’t be fired this year or this off-season. “Injuries” and “Realignment” will serve as handy excuses.

    If the Reds get off to a 3-22 start in 2023, then we will certainly see Bell get bumped upstairs.

    This season is a dumpster fire that is only going to have to burn itself out.

    There are a few things worth watching amidst the ongoing nightmare:

    Watching India slowly get his game back. Watching Senzel slowly putting his together.

    Watching Castillo pitch. Mercy, do they really have to trade him?

    Watching Stephenson hit.

    And Drury hitting with men on base.

    I’ve lost most interest in Greene, at least until some major retooling in his approach takes place.

    Lodolo and Ashcraft are much farther off than it initially appeared.

    Overton was the one I was most interested in, but that didn’t last long.

    The Reds haven’t been to the WS in 30+ years. The BRM was 15 years before that.
    It’s not even on the radar.

    It’s nearly impossible to filter out all the bumbling by players, the front office and the woeful manager, but with a realigned mindset, I’m going to keep on keeping on.

    • Mark A Verticchio

      Unfortunately I agree with almost everything you say. Nothing is going to change around this team until there is new ownership.

  28. Mark A Verticchio

    As for Votto, today is a great example. Why bat Votto 4th against a left handed pitcher? I would either move him down in the order or start Fairchild in right, Reynolds at third and Drury at first. However Bell will never make these obvious choices. I do get upset with people who complain that the Reds can’t make these moves because they owe Votto. He is a great player and a from what I can tell a great person but, no player is bigger than the team, as an ex coach I bet I told my players that a thousand times even my best players.

    • JA

      Bell should call for that dificult decisions…. Have Votto in the bench with Lefthanders SP. Among the 4B ranking in MLB JV is probably in the bottom 10%.

      One thing that I miss from Castellanos is his wiling to win the game and that is another thing that an experienced player should contribute to any tem, not seen in JV or Moose … o another experienced player this season. NC used to do it in Reds and still does in Philles, specially with Harper and many pitchers injures , fighting for the wild card spot…. fighting!
      Need some Pete Rose passion in this team. as said… JV is not being part of the solution..

  29. LeRoy

    The Reds’ super 3 pitching prospects have hit a wall. They haven’t improved but have actually went backwards in their progress. Is this due to the league becoming familiar with them or bad instruction to them from the staff. Ashcraft in particular seems to have changed his pitching ways. He was inducing a lot of ground outs when he pitched his first 2 or 3 games and now his pitching is getting more fly balls. Has he changed or has he been changed for the worst. All three pitchers should be showing some improvement but for some reason they are going in the other direction.

    • Earmbrister

      Leroy, maybe you nailed it with the first sentence, maybe they’ve hit the (rookie) wall. Two of the three are only 24 years old, with Greene only being 22 years old (soon to be 23, but he missed a lot of time due to TJ surgery). And none have more than 270 IP in their pro careers, with Lodolo only having about 120. All 3 have obvious talent.

      It’s a game of adjustments. Early rookie pitcher success followed by batters adjusting their approach. Hopefully followed by the pitchers adjusting their approach. These things don’t happen with the snap of their fingers, it’ll happen over time.

      They should be fine. All of them seem to be gamers with a good mental mindset.

  30. Still a Red

    Young starters will likely be total pitch limited. A couple cavalry arms hopefully on the way, but 2nd half could be ugly , especially if/when Castillo and Mahle are gone.

  31. JohnnyTV

    I think you’ve revealed another fly in the oinment….
    that of watering down any possible return for Castillo / Mahle with the inclusion of a journeyman, so-called ‘innings eater’ in the deal to make up for the loss(es) to the SR.

    Kind of like a Fraley toss-in on the Suarez-Winker dump. The Reds give away 2/3 of their outfield so have to make it seem like they are getting something in return…and worse, feel inclined to have to play a Fraley just because they traded for him.

    Same situation with Minor….Krall unloads Gray and let’s Miley walk so needs to be seen as doing something, so he takes on a washed up $10M man.

    There are so many ways that things can get worse in the Castellini-Krall-Bell regime.

  32. Doc4uk

    Bull pen is terrible . Not a single reliever can be counted on to shut down a team in the eight or ninth inning. Perhaps two or three of the Reds players would even be on the Dodgers roster and one may be traded to them. Greene , Lodolo, San Martin, and Ashcraft would be at AA or AAA. Farmer, India, Solano, Naquin, Senzel, Shrock, or anyone in the bull pen except Diaz . Mahle might make their BP. Just Castillo, Stephenson, Diaz, and Votto would be able to be part of their top 25.