Brandon Drury’s attempt at a game-tying ninth-inning grand slam came up a couple of feet short, as the St. Louis Cardinals scored a 7-3 victory over the Cincinnati Reds.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cincinnati Reds (34-56) | 3 | 10 | 0 |
| St. Louis Cardinals (49-44) |
7 | 8 | 0 |
| W: Pallante (3-4) L: Greene (3-11) SV: Helsley (8) |
|||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
The game was tied 3-3 after four innings, but Reds pitchers — who walked eight batters in the game — allowed four runs over the final five innings. St. Louis relievers held Cincinnati scoreless after the fourth inning — despite an oh-so-close Reds effort at an amazing ninth-inning comeback.
Trailing by four entering the ninth, the Reds led off with back-to-back hits by Donovan Solano and pinch-hitter Tyler Stephenson against lefthanded reliever Genesis Cabrera. He was replaced by righty Ryan Helsley, who allowed a single to Nick Senzel to load the bases with nobody out. Pinch-hitter Max Schrock hit a medium-depth left-field fly, on which lead runner Solano stayed put at third instead of tagging up and trying to score. Jonathan India then struck out swinging, followed by Drury blasting a long fly which was caught a couple of feet in front of the 400-foot dead-centerfield wall by Dylan Carlson to end the game.
The Offense
India led off the game with an opposite-field single, and Drury followed with a bloop double over St. Louis first baseman Paul Goldschmidt. Tommy Pham and Joey Votto then both struck out, but “Farm” came up with a big two-out knock:
Kyle Farmer produces a pair of early runs for the @Reds! pic.twitter.com/88YfrWSjOs
— Bally Sports Cincinnati (@BallySportsCIN) July 16, 2022
The first-inning hits extended India’s and Drury’s hitting streaks to six and eight, respectively.
With two out in the third inning and Pham on second base after a wild pitch, Votto bounced an opposite-field single to left to score Pham to tie the game at 3-3.
Solano and Senzel poked two hits each on the night to lead Cincinnati.
The Pitching
After the offense presented him with a 2-0 lead in the top of the first, starter Hunter Greene struggled. A leadoff bloop hit was followed by back-to-back walks, loading the bases with none out. St. Louis capitalized with two long sacrifice flies to tie the game at 2-2 after one inning and 36 Greene pitches.
Later solo homers by Dylan Carlson and Nolan Gorman gave the Cardinals a 4-3 lead after four innings.
Greene’s night ended after five innings and 106 pitches, 71 of which were strikes. That’s a good ratio of strikes, but Greene’s primary issue at this point continues to be that he leaves both fastballs and sliders in great hitting zones near the middle of the plate.
Greene was followed by Buck Farmer in the bottom of the sixth. The only out he recorded in one-third of an inning was a ball lined off the right-field wall by the first batter he faced:
Testing Tyler Naquin is a Cardinal sin. pic.twitter.com/IdoTQQxjlC
— Bally Sports Cincinnati (@BallySportsCIN) July 16, 2022
Two walks and a single later, it was 5-3 Cardinals, and Joel Kuhnel was on to replace Farmer. Kuhnel walked the first batter he faced, .160-hitting Austin Romine, to load the bases. But Kuhnel avoided further damage by inducing a double-play grounder from Tommy Edman.
In the seventh, Ian Gibaut walked the first two men he faced, then balked them to second and third. After getting Nolan Arenado on a called strike three, Brendan Donovan looped a single to left to score two and put the home team up 7-3. Of the six men Gibaut faced, he threw a first-pitch ball to five.
Dauri Moreta pitched a scoreless eighth.
For the second consecutive game, Reds pitchers walked eight batters. This is on the long list of problems this team has been unable to fix through 90 games.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Cincinnati Reds at St. Louis Cardinals
Saturday, July 16, 2:15 p.m. ET
Nick Lodolo (2-2, 4.44 ERA) vs. Miles Mikolas (6-7, 2.62 ERA)
Reds will never ever be competitive until they fix there bullpen! You cannot have guys like hembree, hendrix, Doolittle ECT…that have failed with other teams and have them pitch in critical games where did the bullpen rank last year. what about this year? I don’t think Bob C wants to address that area and spend money. Therefore, the Reds will never be competitive!
The Reds currently have nine relievers on the IL, so there won’t be any fix this year. Going forward, I’d work on obtaining quality position players first THEN spend more resources on the BP. There just isn’t a ton of consistency from year to year with relievers, so make big upgrades elsewhere first. That said, small investments in the BP will help speed the drive for contention.
I miss Ross Detwiler who has one of the lowest BB% in the bullpen. Get well Detwiler!
Just a clarification that Hendrix is a Reds prospect and never been with another organization.
Greene is now recording 2.3 HR & 4 BB per 9 IP, not sure if there has been any improvement over time and now closing to 100 IP.
I think Hunter Greene is going to have to change his name to Homer Greene. 🙂
Really, he has great fastball velocity, but it doesn’t seem to move, and Major Leaguers can just tee off on it.
And….the Reds’ bullpen was turrible, just turrible…again.
I think the last six games against the Rays and the Yankees, the bullpen was playing over their head. And now…..back to the way they were…Same as it ever was.
That’s not accurate. Doug recently linked an article on Baseball Savant explaining Greene’s fastball actually has extreme horizontal movement. The problem is that keeps the ball in the hitting plane. He actually needs to reduce the movement by getting on top of the ball to create backspin rather than sidespin in order to create vertical movement.
Velocity is a vector consisting of speed and direction. He has great speed but poor direction, therefore his velocity is not great.
I say send Greene to AAA let him pitch a few games to get his confidence up and then shut him down mid August. I know he will be shutdown early and I’d like him to end on a high note. It can’t be good for his confidence to continually get Shelled. He has the ability but he has to work on locating his pitches. After the AS break I would send him to AAA let him start 2-3 games and then let’s come back in February and get this thing right.
I think some version of this will occur. I’m not sure they will send him to AAA to work on it but he will need to work on location and a 3rd pitch. He will need to be shutdown sometime – I would guess 120 innings – and we have dunn and hopefully Overton coming back in august.
But wow, our bullpen. Just too many walks. And our offense- why do we not score more runs per hits? Is there a statistic that shows a runs per hits ratio in MLB? For 10 hits we should be able to score more than 3 runs.
No power and several slow runners on the bases. Moose, Joey, Drury. A touch better than last year but still problematic. Be interesting to see how they address over next few weeks.
The Reds have much to do, especially in the bullpen and a closer, but they will be competitive. This team does not give up, led by Kyle Farmer.
Yes but Farmer and Drury are probably two other trades that need to happen.
How do you build a winning team by consistently trading your best performing MLB players for prospects who have done nothing at the MLB level? Have people not learned from watching player after player with outstanding AAA stats fail at the MLB level? Just not logical, says Spock.
For struggling to get beyond 20 games below .500 I think the team (at least the offense), though middling statistically, shows a lot of grit. And they’re doing it w/o the HR. for the most part. Its too bad the pitching is so so bad. The walks are just horrible.
Watching some games summary…. Hader melt down last night allowing 3 homeruns (1 grand slam) 6 runs in the 9th last night vs SF. From 5-2 to 5-8 lost.
On the Reds game… two disappointing decisions by 3rd base coach…. 1. Stopping Votto at 3rd with two outs… need to challenge the other team! … 2. Full bases at 9th..no out, flyout… stop again your runner….. need more agressivity there!!!! Put some pressure to the opposite team..!!
Another one… why the Reds has in the bench his best batter of the season by a mile?
One soccer anecdote… in 1938 world cup, Brazil manager decided not to align his best player, Leonidas, in the semifinal to reserve it and have him ready for the finals, well Brazil lost the semifinal and not played the final.
Let’s reserve the best hitter for when or for what?
TS is the present, not the past. Find him a place in the LU!
Can you imaging Pete Rose being stopped at 3rd base in those two situations?
When you are down 4 runs in the 9th it would be stupid to risk an out at the plate. If you are going to win, that runner on 3rd will have to be knocked in anyway. So scoring on that sac fly is irrelevant. Either way, all the baserunners have to score as well as the batter. You may not think it was aggressive, but it was smart.
Different angle…
Why not try to put 7-4, reduce the gap to 3, next play , attempt or simulate to steal… discomfort the pitcher..
Agressive vs passive, specially for a team that has nothing to loose….
Don’t know, feeling that sone teams play with some comfortability vs Reds, specially the NL central
Because you have 3 outs left in the game. Whatever you are tryin to accomplish by trying to distract a pitcher, etc… is far outweighed by the value of those outs. You simply do not risk outs on the basepaths when you are down 4 in the 8th. That’s baseball strategy 101. Down 1? Different story. Down 4? No logical way.
*9th
TS wasn’t “benched “, he was rested which is what you do with catchers. They need days off due to the pounding they take. That’s why you need a competent backup catcher.
Look up the GP for W Contreras and Yadier Molina (in his prime). They typically max out at 120, 130, or 140 games at all positions, including DH.
The Votto tootblan ended what might have been a bigger inning. The Reds have to overcome and their own ineptness to win a game.
Not sure if the TOOTBLAN was on Votto, Farmer, DeShields (coaching at 3B), or some combination of all of them but the play surely did hurt the Reds.
On a single to CF by Solano, Votto, running from 2B, rounded third aggressively apparently intent on coming home. Deshields seeing the ball was already on its way to home plate appeared to throw up a late stop sign. Votto stopped abruptly and returned to 3rd. However, Farmer who was running from 1B on the play was already more than halfway from 2B to 3B and was easily retired for the final out of the inning.
For those who haven’t seen or read about the play, here is Joe Harris’ game story on MLB(.)com which describes it and David Bell’s reaction starting about 5 sentences/ paragraphs in.
https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/hunter-greene-reds-lose-series-opener-to-cardinals
Sounds like 3rd base coach started the motion. Farmer in my opinion has to be aware of what is happening in front of him.
I didn’t watch it but from reading and the comments. I believe it was a combo of 3rd base coach throwing up stop sign and Farmer not being aware of what is happening in front of him.
@Kevin> I tend to agree with you. The trail runner is always responsible to make sure the base in front of him is clear before he commits to going there. Bell’s comments as presented by the MLB(.)com article were one of his typical efforts to deflect and diffuse any blame.
When a 3B coach is down the line and hasn’t given a stop/ go signal as DeShields was last night, that typically means keep coming hard to me, but be prepared for a sign before you reach me. That’s exactly what Votto did. Then he saw the DeShields point back at 3B pulled up, and retreated.
Maybe DeShields was a little late with the sign or should have more accurately read that the throw was coming in high and well off line. Then again maybe he needed to give his sign too early to get a better a read.
I think we are all questioning why Bell didn’t play his best hitter, no excuse especially with the DH. This is one of many reasons why this team will not succeed with him as manager. Nice guy, horrible field manager. The sad part is the Reds are most likely stuck with Bell for the foreseeable future.
This is not some bad decision by Bell, TS was rested which is what you do with catchers. They need days off due to the pounding they take. That’s why you need a competent backup catcher.
Look up the GP for W Contreras and Yadier Molina (in his prime). They typically max out at 120, 130, or 140 games at all positions, including DH.
I remember watching Greene pitch in the minors. The first time I saw him pitch my first thought was that his fastball had no movement and often times stayed in the middle of the plate and that he didn’t possess any other pitch that made you think he had filthy stuff. So far in the majors it looks like he hasn’t improved and doesn’t seem to be getting the advanced instruction he needs to improve. I have my doubts abouts him becoming more than an average pitcher who doesn’t evolve into what his talents say he should.
Dude is 22 years old. Was hurt for a year and didn’t pitch in 2020. He will be just fine. People need to relax. He could easily have 6 wins and not as many losses if bullpen would of done their part.
Totally agree. Zack Greinke’s first year was 5-17 with a 5.80 era….in the biggest park in mlb. Gerrit Cole was like 1-8 vs the Reds with a sky high era coming into the game the other night. His fb is straight, but he learned how to pitch.
HG is a smart kid and will figure things out. Sam LeCure brought up a good point the other night. A slider is supposed to look like a strike and end up a ball….not hook right over the plate for batting practice. Figure that out and develop a split or knuckle curve or something and he’s another Gerrit Cole
IRM,
The flat horizonal movement on Greene’s fastball is also yielding the same end location results as the slider finish in the middle of the plate. Batters know what vertical plane it will be on in the zone.
If he can get some vertical movement and can replicate on desire the vertically flat horizontal runner and the vertically moving pitch, he suddenly has his additional pitch
I agree that he needs time to learn. Patience is not always an easy thing.
My question (and one that was asked of, I believe it was Chris Welch, on air) is why do none of our three rookies in the rotation throw a 2-seam fastball? Greene, Ashcraft and Lodolo all feature a 4-seam fastball and don’t even list 2 -seamer as one of their pitches. Are pitchers not being taught to do so in the Reds minors? Welch said he didn’t know.
2-seamers tend to “run” more than 4-seamers do…similar to the fastball that Castillo throws. If anyone has read any information on this question I would be curious to know.
Tar Heel> The Fangraphs article several folks have referred to in other threads and I think this one too, characterizes Greene’s flat horizontal 4 seam movement to be very similar to what he would get on a 2 seamer. So, he has that action. If he could just pair it with a vertical movement also off 4 seamer and mix the two, he might be set.
Your eyes deceived you. Greene’s fastball has some of the most horizontal movement in the majors. I’m not sure why so many people insist his fastball has no movement. In fact, he needs less movement. He needs to convert that horizontal spin into vertical backspin to miss more bats in the vertical plane. Horizontal movement keeps the ball on the swing plane longer, so it’s less useful. But make no mistake, Greene’s fastball has lots of movement.
Get ahead, change speeds, and stay out of the middle of the plate. HG doesn’t do those things so he gets hit. His natural talent will take over if he can do those things often enough. Right now his slider is horrific and he can’t even show them a 3rd pitch. Growing pains. 99-102 was enough in the minors, but he was getting hit at AAA too. I’m not worried. Not yet
A ball that moves on the same plane from the label to the barrel is probably not a long term successful pitch.
What doesn’t get talked about is that his changeup has disappeared from the repertoire.
I saw an oppo batter quoted as saying his 89-90MPH change up looked a lot more like a mediocre MLB fastball than an actual change up. Maybe they need to get Soto working with him on a circle change (since Castillo will probably be gone soon).
Hunter Greene is starting to remind me of Cody Reed.
A guy who was supposed to have great stuff, great ability, great fastball (not 100 mph..but), but he regularly got ROCKED when he pitched in the majors.
All the externals said this guy should have been good (Cody Reed), but my sense is that not only was he very hittable in the Majors, but possibly he was tipping his pitches. Once a scout sees that and reports back to his team, ML hitters would lock in on him tipping his pitches.
Location, velocity, movement, release point.
Although at times Hunter looks overpowering, other times he gets lit up. I know he is “young and learning” and has “great potential”, but us dumb fans want to try and understand why there are these huge swings in results. Hunter also got lit up, at times, at the AAA level.
Despite his great abilities, he is still a very unfinished pitcher.
I can understand the reasoning, but I don’t know exactly what he would really gain by going back to AAA for 2-3 starts. What if he gets lit up down there (which he might)? Would that WRECK his confidence?
Essentially, we were shut out 4-0 in a 6-inning game covered mostly by the bullpen. I think we’ve seen enough of that movie to know it doesn’t end well the majority of the time. Add in some missed opportunities and a red-hot TySteve “resting” and this is what we get. Big letdown from the previous 6 games, but we have to wipe it off the books and move on to the weekend games.
And losing to the WLB’s really stinks.
Regarding TySteve, as a matter of interest, how many times did his usual spot come up last night, whether he were catcher or DH, when a base hit in that spot would have made a difference? He did PH and got a hit; how many runs did that produce?
I do think if you want Stephenson in lineup daily. Then gonna have to carry 3 catchers. As in my opinion you don’t want both catchers on line up. Incase of injury.
Zero runs scored on the Stephenson PH single. It was the 2nd of 3 consecutive singles to lead off the Reds 9th inning.
The #5 slot batted in the 1st, 3rd, 6th and 9th. I don’t see that a single would have made any difference in any of them; but, the 3rd is really hard to say because he would have batted between Votto reaching and following 2 out TOOTBLAN 2 batters later.
@Kevin, Your really only talking about a handful of time that this scenario might come up. Plus if the injury occurs later in the game you’ll use pinch hitters to replace the bullpen arms. I’d rather have Stephenson bat in the lineup everyday.
It’s illogical to look at where he hit and see what a single would have changed directly. Because a hit rather than an out has a butterfly effect the rest of the game. The game no longer plays out the same way. That inning is lengthened and the spots in the order the next innings are also affected. It’s not as simple as inserting a hit here and everything else remains the same.
Let’s go Lodolo!!! No hitter, I can feel it.
I would settle for a win. Lol
LU for Sat game… (ESPN)
India
Drury (DH)
Farmer
Votto
Stephenson
Solano
Naquin
Senzel
Fairchild
I see no advantage in sending Hunter Greene to AAA. The Reds are going no where this season. If they were in a pennant race maybe, but what purpose would it served sending him to Louisville?
If you want Hunter Greene to learn how to pitch to major league hitters, he has to pitcher against
major league hitters.
Agree, but it is puzzling that I watch a Korean kid that is weeks younger then HG and throws 96-98 with a 12-6 curve, and a split, and a slider that he doesn’t leave in the middle of the plate. I’m sure that kid could blow every high school or low minor hitter away same as HG, but he actually knows how to pitch.
Why are we dropping the ball with development? Their umps are 100x better too. Less ego imo therefore more open to constructive criticism and growth. No participation trophy mindset…..little Johnny is perfect so it has to be the coach
If Greene is going to be shut down early anyway, that “extra” year of service time lost when he started the season at MLB versus spending a month or so at AAA first could be recaptured if he was optioned to AAA early enough. They should tread carefully though lest they poison the relationship with a guy who well could be the face of the team over the next 4 to 5 years.
+5,000
I agree, if I was worried about Greene’s confidence, then maybe I’d send him to AAA. I do think when he nears his innings limit the Reds should either move him to the pen to extend the length of the season, or keep him as a starter, but make him more of an opener, pitching 2 or 3 innings. I don’t want him to finish the year too early and just watch the rest of the team play.
I know he is young but I would make Greene a closer. If the Reds are going to compete for Division titles over the next 3 years, they are going to need lots of help in the bullpen. Greene could become a weapon in the back end of the bullpen. If he is going to be a successful starter he needs a reliable 3rd pitch. He reminds me a little of Chapman who had limited success as a starter but became dominant as a closer. Some guys just are not starters. He desperately needs a change-up or a sinker.
I’d say that would be (another) complete waste of talent. start him and find a way to coach him into a better position in terms of pitch selection, etc. He’s shown he can be coached (earlier in the season). Let’s make that work.
What’s Lodolo have to do in order to buy a strike from this Home Plate Chumpire?
Well, he does need to put some in the zone … that much is certain.
Among their worst and most aggressive hitters and he hits him after going 0-2.
I have a lot of hope and faith in these kids, but this year just keeps getting more painful by the inning.
Mark, I have to disagree about Greene. Dominant closers are not a waste of talent. The game is changing. Starting pitching isn’t what it used to be. Starters only average 5 innings a game and they only pitch every 5th game. Dominant bullpens can be a recipe for success. A great closer can impact 3 or 4 games a week. Look at the Reds last year. With even an average bullpen the first half of the year the Reds would have easily made the playoffs. Playoff games are often dominated by bullpens. Remember 1990?