The twenty-two year old phenom Hunter Greene gave the Cincinnati Reds six brilliant innings, allowing just one run with 9 strikeouts. Greene’s velocity was electric on the afternoon, throwing 38 pitches above 100 MPH.

The Reds trailed 3-0 going into the bottom of the 8th inning. Their win probability was down to 3.3% at one point in the top of the 8th inning. The Reds got on the board with a Nick Senzel bases loaded walk, but Jonathan India hit a weak pop up for the second out of the inning. Brandon Drury picked up India with his fourth hit of the game, which tied the game at 3.

The game went into extra innings. The Rays were able to get their ghost runner to score, but Jeff Hoffman limited them to just that. Matt Reynolds leadoff with a single in the top of the 10th. The Reds tied the game on a wild pitch, then Donovan Solano singled to put runner on the corners with no outs. That set the stage for the hottest hitter on the Reds, Nick Senzel. He delivered his first career walkoff hit to give the Reds their fourth walkoff win since Sunday. The Reds have clinched their first series win at home since the end of May.

Final R H E
Tampa Bay Rays (43-39) 4 8 0
Cincinnati Reds (31-54) 5 13 1
W: Hoffman (2-0) L: Faucher (1-3)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

Biggest Play of the Game

According to Fangraphs WPA statistic (winning percentage added), the biggest play of the game was Brandon Drury’s 2-RBI single with 2 outs in the 8th inning, tying the game at 3. That play increased the Reds probability of winning by 35.1% (from 24.1% to 59.2%).


Hunter Greene was brilliant. I’ll just give you the line and let you drool over the stats from Reds TV statistician, Joel Luckhaupt: 6.0 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 4 BB, 9 K

Brandon Drury just keeps on keeping on. He had 4 hits, including a pair of doubles, and a game-tying 2-RBI single in the 8th inning.

Nick Senzel had another great day to continue his hot stretch, with 2 hits and a bases-loaded walk. Senzel entered today hitting .420/.463/.580 since June 23rd.

Tyler Stephenson had 2 hits in his return to the Reds lineup.

Buck Farmer pitched a perfect 7th inning in his return to the Reds, striking out 1 batter.

Hunter Strickland pitched a scoreless 9th inning!

Matt Reynolds came off the bench. He nearly hit a 3-run home run, but had a key single to lead off the 10th inning to put the Reds in a golden spot.


Mike Moustakas was 0 for 3 with 3 strikeouts, before being lifted for a pinch hitter against a left-handed reliever. Moustakas also had a rough game in the field, filling in a first base for Votto. He failed to cover first base on a ball hit to India in the Rays 2-run, 8th inning.

Tommy Pham had the golden sombrero, going 0 for 4 with 4 strikeouts.

Ian Gibaut had a rough second outing with the Reds as he walked two batters, leading to 2 runs scored after some shaky defense.

Not so random thoughts……….

I would love to see Jonathan IndiaNick Senzel, and Tyler Stephenson bat 1-3 at the top of the order after the trade deadline. These three guys are clearly the big three the Reds are hoping to be their core going forward. It would be nice to say to those guys, “this is your team going forward,” and then let set the tone.

Up Next:

Rays at Reds
Sunday, 1:40 PM
TV: Bally Sports Ohio
Nick Lodolo (4.19 ERA/3.10 xFIP) vs Shane Baz (2.92 ERA/3.32 xFIP)

97 Responses

  1. Mark Moore

    Greene’s stuff was electric today. Nick’s performance of late showed in his post-game interview attitude and comments. Good to have TySteve back with us. RoY was obviously frustrated with himself on that last AB (that’s a good thing).

    As for 3M … sliding him into the “Negatives” probably is letting him off the hook too easily after what we witnessed today.

    Go for the sweep tomorrow. Winning is always much funner. Significantly much more funner.

    • Earmbrister

      2M, nary a sign of Debbie!

      Wish I could’ve seen this game. The young pitching could very well propel this team going forward. When the other team isn’t scoring, the game becomes much easier.

      Hoping that the good Senzel is here to stay. He seems to be healthy, and he’s in the prime of his baseball life. Been banging the drum for years for him, I’m hoping that for the Reds sake their patience pays off.

      Too many people are discounting Drury’s performance this year. He dealt with several injuries earlier in his career, much like Senzel. He produced in a small sample size for the metropolitans last year. And he’s been arguably the Reds best hitter this year. Call Moore why are you in the woods stay out of the woods Dallas
      Find a way to re- sign him. Drury can play 5 positions in a pinch, but could be the answer going forward at 3B or LF. Get him signed.

      And, GO REDS!

      • Earmbrister

        (Please ignore the sentence directed at my dog re the woods. I’m sure my dog will)

      • Mark Moore

        Dog commands ignored …

        Debbie was close by when we barfed up that 3-run lead. But the TV stayed on so I tapped back in to the comments. I’m glad I did.

    • Christopher Hoeb

      If Greene can develop a third Pitch he will be an all-star pitcher.

  2. Old-school

    Drury? Guy might need to be signed an extension for 2023/24?
    India struggling but will be ok

    Stephenson is good
    Senzel and Greene have had their steps backwards…but both stepping up.

  3. LT

    Nothing like the thrill of winning World Series, oops, closed games. Keep fighting young Reds. Don’t waste any breadth talking about the veterans.

  4. SteveO

    Nick, no Drury behind Stephenson? Do you think he’s moved before the deadline? I hope they at least propose a 2-3 year extension and if he decides it’s not what he wants, he’s traded. Inquiring minds want to know will Moose be in the lineup tomorrow against RH Baz? I think he needs one of those JV 3 days rest to try and figure things out. Moose at .206, JV at .210. Who finishes the year with the higher BA?
    It’s really painful that there’s $51M of this year’s payroll for JV, Moose and Minor. And that’s not counting the $8M that Shogo took with him to Hiroshima.

    • Old-school

      Steve0? RLN is easy on stating Moose is done.

      Dont link that with Votto though. I’m a big Votto guy yesterday but not today or tomorrow. RLN ain’t there yet…so dont link Moose with Votto. But, Drury is really making a strong case for DFA’ing Moose and signing Drury to an extension.

      • SteveO

        Uh, don’t tell me what do. I’m free to write what I want. If you don’t like it, ignore it and don’t respond

      • Old-school

        You lost me Steve 0

        I agree with everything you said 100 percent,

        But OK. i wont ever respond to any comment you make?

  5. SteveO

    Wow, 2 more HRs by DLC tonight at Dayton. Too bad there is no support around him anymore as they have already left for Chattanooga. After his All-Star game appearance Saturday in LA, he better be on the first plane out to Chattanooga along side Abbott.

  6. Votto4life

    Nick, you really like the idea of keeping Jonathon India and his .217 BA in the lead off spot?

    • Earmbrister

      Devi’s advocate: what was Senzel’s BA after 130 ABs vs now?

      India, Senzel, and Ty Steve need plenty of ABs. Put them at or near the top of the order and work from there.

      • Votto4life

        At what point are we able to criticize? How many at bats?

        Joey Votto only has 214 At Bats and he is criticize mercilessly here every, single day. India has had one good season. Votto has had a Hall of Fame Career.

        Not sure why India gets a pass.

      • Votto4life

        And I am the one playing Devil’s Advocate. I love Jonathon India. He is a great player. He is a lot of fun to watch. I just don’t get the hate for Joey Votto from people who claim to
        Be Reds fans. It has really started to sour me on this forum.

      • Earmbrister

        We all love the Reds, though it’s hard to see with a few here. Of course, there are many different opinions about how to improve the Reds performance. I’ll try to do better in respecting that.

        FWIW, I’m a Joey defender as well. Too many people have too short of a memory after his performance last year.

        GO REDS.

      • Votto4life

        Oh I know Earmbrister, I wasn’t including you in that group. It really is just a few folks, I shouldn’t let it bother me, it can just be so insistent at times. I just don’t understand it.

      • Earmbrister

        I also don’t get the hate for Nick Krall from some Reds fans. I’ve never met the man, I just view his work from CT. From my perspective, he deserves the benefit of the doubt as he’s not been on the job for all that long. Just like a draft class, or a trade, takes several years to grade, his overall performance also takes several years to assess. Of course none of us have a real understanding of the mandate, and the resources,that he has been given by ownership.

        Of course, Votto has earned the benefit of the doubt after years and years of quality performance. Krall doesn’t have that past performance but also doesn’t have much of a track record at all. He’s more like Senzel in that regard, some good and some bad. The Reds patience may be paying off with Senzel, can we show some patience with Krall?

        P.S.: is some of the vitriol aimed at Krall a function of poor performances by his predecessors?

      • CI3J

        @ Votto4life,

        I don’t think Votto is getting “hate”, per se, I think a lot of people are just correctly assessing his current value to the team, which is to say, pretty terrible right now. He has a -0.1 WAR on the season.

        I don’t argue that Votto has had a tremendous career and is one of the all-time great Reds, but this season is definitely playing out like we all knew his last years would when he signed that 10 year contract. It was a good contract, and Votto produced far more value than what he was paid, but we all knew at some point we’d have to pay the piper for those great seasons, and that’s what’s happening now.

        So short answer: Yes, India should bat at the top of the order, because he’s young and still developing, so he needs as many ABs as possible. Votto is not going to get any better, and this team isn’t winning anyway, so there’s no point in letting him hit higher in the lineup any longer when those ABs could be going to players of the future.

      • Tom Reeves

        Everything has to be about getting this young team ready for 2023 and beyond. The young players have to be in positions that test them to rise to the occasion. Everything that doesn’t contribute in 2023 has to be let go.

        India gets praise because his “only one good season” was his only full season. He’s part of the future of this franchise and I agree. I’d love to have India Senzel and Stephenson 1-3. I’d drop Votto in the order (if it makes him mad, that’s okay – he can be dangerous when he’s mad).

        Moose has to be DFA’d. For a big part of his decline, he was still leading the young players. He’s no longer leading. He has to go.

        At this point, I’d bad Drury 4th.

        I kinda like Votto and Farmer lower in the line up because they both get timely hits (or on base) and they can spark energy.

    • Rednat

      I think Senzel can be a really good lead off guy. He is a little more selective at the plate and a better base runner than India. I’m hoping India eventually develops into a three hole hitter

      • Doc

        I like India’s and Senzel’s positions where they are at present.

        India was 2021 Rookie of the Year in the National League and is coming off a significant injury stretch. Team is going nowhere so give him the chance to regain his stroke. He did it last year, and probably will regain it this year. When he moved to leadoff last year the team, and his bat, responded.

        Senzel is showing some good stuff, doing it while hitting down in the lineup. He has no track record of favorable note until the past 3-4 weeks. Let him keep hitting down in the order and build confidence and experience while pressing less. He has been a spark plug for late rallies and instrumental in a number of late wins.

  7. SteveO

    Man on first, DLC at the plate with a chance to tie the game in the bottom of the 8th(extra innings) and gets intentionally walked. Respect!

  8. Mark A Verticchio

    DLC needs to be pushed along as fast as possible. The Reds need to treat him like the Nationals did Soto and hope it works out the same. We can dream can’t we.

  9. Rut

    Only guy I recall with easier heat than Hunter was JR Richard. He is at least equal or better than Verlander in that regard.

    Just so different to have a guy not max effort and contortions that still hits 100 plus so often so easily

  10. Doc4uk

    DLC up for Pham. Didn’t the Mets bring up Harris from high A? How is he doing? McGary to 1B for Moose. Votto to DH against righties and Reynolds against lefties

    • Doc4uk

      Sorry Harris is CF for Braves and hit homer late in game to beat us

      • Doug Gray

        No, they did not call him up from High-A. He was in Double-A for 200 plate appearances before he was called up.

  11. Mark A Verticchio

    I would like to see Fairchild get his shot as well. If you are going to go young go all in.

  12. Jim Walker

    “I would love to see Jonathan India, Nick Senzel, and Tyler Stephenson bat 1-3 at the top of the order after the trade deadline…..”

    Why wait till after the deadline? All three are routine starters. Every game they all are in the lineup bat them this way and fill in the ranks below them with the other 6 batters. Put Drury 4th, some combination of Naquin, Pham, and Farmer in the next 3 spots depending on whether LH/RH starting pitcher against them. Same with Votto/Moose / Solano in 8/9.

    • MBS

      Drury and Stephenson are the teams best 2 hitters, and should be 2, and 3. As someone else mentioned tonight it might be a good idea to take a bit of pressure off India, and apply a bit more to Senzel, with the success he’s been having.

      I like this lineup for now, NS, BD, TS, TP, TN, JI, KF, (JV/MM), DS, after the trade deadline it might be a different roster, so who knows.

      • Jim Walker

        I do not really disagree. However, I think part of Nick’s idea was to tell JI/NS/TS this is now your team, step up and lead it. And I very much like that concept.

        Given this, Drury is on the outside looking in until/ unless he signs an extension which I believe he will not do with any team without testing the FA market in the off-season.

      • MBS

        If they don’t extend Drury they will trade him by the deadline, or they are even more poorly ran than I thought. So it really depends on their plans for Drury. So a post TD world might be a team without Drury, Pham, Naquin and Farmer. If that the team we have then I’m fine with the 1,2,3 being NS, JI, and TS.

        (CF: NS) (2B: JI) (C: TS) (1B: JV) (2B: MS) (SS: JB) (DH: MM) (LF: SF) (RF: TJF)

        With Garcia, Lopez, Santana, Cedrola rounding out the bench. That would be a younger team, but we’d be a shoe in for last place!

  13. Redhaze

    Anybody with me about signing Castillo to a four year extension? Trade Pham and Mahle and Naquin? Moose will be off the books. Votto’s contract will be over after 2023. Rotation of Castillo, Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft and Overton next season. Antone and Wilson will be back. Sign Solano also. Sign or trade for a middle of the order outfielder for next season.

    • Votto4life

      Luis Castillo is a great player. His value will never be this high again.

      The Reds have been fun to watch this weekend, but you have to keep in mind that, they are 23 games under .500 and we are only in July.

      The Reds need at least two middle of the line up bats moving forward. They don’t have the luxury of re-signing Luis Castillo. They need to trade him to restock the farm, which is pretty close to being bare of good position players.

      They have one shot to get this right. They have a fine core of young pitchers, but they desperately need middle of the line up pop.

      Trade Castillo for the best two hitting prospects you can, preferably outfielders.

      Trade Castillo for one or two talented players and have their ETA coincide with Elly De La Cruz , then you will really have something.

      Extending guys like Drury, Pham, Solano etc. is how you end up in the basement for a decade or two.

      Sign free agents who are left over at the end of Spring Training each year and you will find yourself 23 games under .500 in early July every season.

    • MBS

      For me signing Castillo is a non starter if the Reds insist on keeping payroll at 120M or less. I know I’ll get heat over this comment, but signing Votto was a huge mistake for the Reds for 2 reasons.

      1) No one can predict a 10+ year contract, thankfully JV was pretty healthy and very productive over that time with few exceptions. He did earn his money.

      2) 1 player can not take up that big of a percentage of the payroll.

      If 120M is our max budget the Reds can’t afford a player over 18M a year. That is 15% of a 120M payroll. We won’t get to sign the big FA’s, but we could sign 4 FA in the 18M a piece range. That’s 72M in FA’s which leaves 48M for the arb, and pre arb players.

      4, 18M FA’s could net you a top notch Closer, and 3 impact bats to add to the youth this team has coming up. I’d add one or 2 FA of that ilk in 23, and then 1 or 2 again in 24. That’s what I’d do, but it’s also not my money, or team.

    • Tar Heel Red

      I’m with you 100%. If the Reds want prospects trade Mahle, but not Castillo. Number one starters do not grow on trees and if you have one you lock him up. They can easily do so with the Votto and Moustakas coming off the books after next season.
      The Reds rotation has the potential to be dominant for years to come, but IMO you need a veteran in the mix to lead. Castillo is that guy.

      • Jim Walker

        IMO, the leaders in the Reds rotation are already Greene and Ashcraft with Lodolo poised to join them. And throw in Justin Dunn who apparently was stepping up as a leader while doing his rehab. Why do I say this?

        For the first time in the careers of both Castillo and Mahle, we are seeing them grow beyond the issues that have plagued them both ad nauseam since they have been with the Reds. Is this a mere coincidence? I think not.

        Either they are working their tails off to get out of town; or, they are being driven by the arrival of new high ceiling competition in the rotation pool versus the clearly older and lesser talents they have previously been surrounded by.

        I’d like to see the Reds retain either Castillo or Mahle but for what they will do on the mound, not some vague concept of leadership which in 4 or 5 years we’ve seen precious little or no sign of from them.

    • Doc

      I am with you. I don’t like the implied thought process that we are a development team for the rest of the league and trade a proven top of the order pitcher for unproven, at the mlb level, players. My opinion and a few bucks will get you a Starbucks drink!

      Presumes Castillo would sign the 3-4 year extension.

      • Tar Heel Red

        Jim, just curious to what growth from Mahle do you refer? Don’t get me wrong I like Mahle, but to me he has shown nothing different since he came into the league. He is very good at getting ahead of hitters, but he cannot put them away without adding to his pitch count, which is his achilles heel. He lacks the “out pitch” that Castillo has.
        I would like to see the team hold onto both pitchers, but I fear this is not going to happen. If I’m Krall and it is mandated that I can only keep one of them, it’s gonna be Castillo every time.

  14. JohnnyTV

    Certainly, Castillo has been showing himself as one of the best pitchers in MLB.

    It would be reckless to trade him for anything less than a can’t-miss prospect, if not a current top of the line player with a team friendly contract. (Doubt there are many of those.)

    I wouldn’t trade Castillo for “two prospects” as they likely to be less.
    No throw in Jake Fraleys or Justin Dunns.

    Otherwise, I’d use Mahle as my trade bait.

    Watching a rotation of Castillo, Greene, Lodolo and Ashcraft for the next 4-5 years would be pretty amazing.

    That’s a New Red Machine in the offing.

    • Votto4life

      Luis Castillo is one of the best pitchers in baseball, but he isn’t going to be here for or five years. He becomes a free agent after next season. He is going to demand at least fair market value, which is far more than the Reds will be willing to pay.

      If the Reds wait until the off-season or next summer to trade him the return will poor. This is the Reds one shot to bring in a couple of players who can help them win eventually.

      There are no guarantees the prospects will pan up, but there are also no guarantee that Castillo will be healthy and effective for another four or five years.

      Mahle is also a good pitcher, but there is no way he is going to bring back nearly the return that Castillo will bring back.

      Personally, I would trade both Castillo and Mahle. This team is historically bad. It is the worst team in Red’s history. It has a lot of needs.

      • 2020ball

        I dont think theyll sign him, but they wouldnt be wrong to do so. He’s still a free agent whether we trade him or not, so unless they extend him I’d for sure trade him and then be involved in talks when he’s available in a couple years.

      • 2020ball

        I meant Castillo, but the same could be said about Mahle

    • Indy Red Man

      I agree with completely except that I don’t think Justin Dunn is a throw-in. 102 ip and 70 hits in the bigs says he’s got arm talent.

  15. GreatRedLegsFan

    The starting rotation looks promising for the years to come. Adding any of Williamson, Phillips, Abott and/or Petty to Greene, Lodolo and Ashcraft will make it, and that’s still excluding the likes of Overton, Dunn and Gutierrez, so plenty to choose from and work good deals for Castillo and Mahle.

    • TR

      If the cards are played right in trading Castillo and Mahle (both or one or maybe none), it could be similar to trading popular Lee May and then acquiring Joe Morgan to spearhead the BRM.

      • Jim Walker

        Cesar Geronimo and Jack Billingham were also more than just fillers in that trade too. 😉

      • JohnnyTV

        If the Reds can pull off that kind of a trade, then there will be no more hand wringing from me.

        However, that trade was, what, around 50 years ago?

        Morgan was a proven talent who really blossomed in the much stronger Reds’s lineup of the era.

        Bull Krall doesn’t give me that sense of confidence.

        Sometimes you just have to spend the money.

        If you want a top notch rotation, pay the man.

        Castillo isn’t Homer Bailey…he’s a far more complete pitcher with a far better pitching motion.

        How can one predict? But I don’t see his arm falling off anytime soon.

      • Redhaze

        Morgan had played in the majors for seven years by the time he came to Cincy. Who is the Joe Morgan that the Reds could trade Castillo for?

  16. GreatRedLegsFan

    As long as players in IL return and team performance improves overall, it’s more evident that Moustakas and Votto can no longer be regulars. The problem is they’re very expensive to be just bench players, so very difficult decisions to make ahead.

    • Luke J

      Never understood the mindset that a highly paid player can’t sit the bench. The contract was guven before the performance. It was based on expectations. And they will be paying them whether they play or sit the bench. So don’t double down on a bad prediction of performance by hurting the team playing an underperforming player you will be paying anyway. Sunk cost fallacy.

  17. 2020ball

    Finally Senzel has cemented himself into the starting 8, OPS is .800 the last month, and his stats the last two weeks are better. The lack of power concerned me the most this year, that and his performance against lefties, but he’s turned a corner finally it seems. Really hope he keeps it going, he’s finally established himself as a guy the Reds have to start everyday.

  18. 2020ball

    And as far as lineup decisions go, all I like to see is the top 5 hitters in the top five spots – I dont think fretting over how they’re ordered is worth my time nor means much. Drury seems missing from your top three preference, but maybe you think he’s been traded by then. I’d actually like to see India moved down while he figures out his timing, he’s been awful at the plate so far. Votto and Pham are fine as choices for the top spots too. Farmer against lefties should also be a priority.

  19. Kevin H

    Not sure why people are surprised by Nick Senzel hot streak at the plate. He was a good hitter in college and minor league system. His first year in the league, 2019 he did pretty well. Yes, I believe any batting average over 250 is doing well. 20 was virus year and I think his shoulder, 21 his knee issue came up. If I remember right those two injuries were a result of him hustling after balls. Now we are in 22. If my math is right this is year 4… Year 4!! We can talk about his injuries, and if we do lets talk about Tyler Stephenson being injury prone. If we talk about struggling at the plate and he is a bust lets talk about about Johnathan India. My point is players have ups and downs, and go on to have good MLB careers.

    All three will be fine.

    • TR

      Agreed. Success on the diamond involves a long grind of up and down with ultimate success being more up.

  20. CI3J

    The Reds should absolutely trade Castillo. Any team in the hunt for the playoffs would love to have him. He should bring back a decent haul since he has a year and a half left on his contract.

    However, given how the Reds traded some other valuable assets this past offseason and got basically nothing in return, I likewise have little hope of the Reds actually getting a return worthy of a player like Castillo.

    • Doc

      If you have little hope they can get a decent return then why would you “absolutely”
      trade him?

    • greenmtred

      We don’t know yet how good the return was. Williamson, for one, could prove to be an excellent MLB player. The guys the Reds traded have not, for the most part, set the world on fire for their new teams, and would have needed expensive multi-year contracts.

  21. burtgummer01

    The Reds are so far away from being a good team they need to trade Castillo and Mahle.
    Except for Diaz they need a whole new bullpen
    holes at 1b 3b ss and the outfield (assuming Farmer and Drury are gone)
    That’s a lot of holes to fill for a team “Aligning payroll”

    • DHud

      Agree, even if you squint *real* hard at the current roster and assume *everything* goes best case scenario, I think it’s real hard to see a truly competitive team next season

      I think they’ll definitely win more games, but not playoff push ready. Need McClain, De la Cruz, Barrero, and hopefully one or two stud OF prospects from imminent trades all on the big league club and mashing before this team has a window

      • Kevin H

        Don’t forget Hinds, Allen, Hendrick, and Thompson in outfield. Not to mention Siani

      • DHud

        Kevin H. I sure hope we see some return from that group

        My concerns though are 1) they’re a little farther away and 2) a lot of swing and miss scare

        Granted, they’re all playing together at Dayton right now with De la Cruz, but DLC seems to be on a much faster trajectory to the bigs

        And not like I’m qualified to have any kind of formal opinion, but prospects with swing and miss in their profile scare me. I know he’s still super young, but Hendrick has struck out 210 times in 544 PAs in two seasons so far. Yikes.

      • DHud

        Allen appears to be doing a bit better than Hinds and Hendrick in that regard

        SO-to-BB ratio is about 1.6-1

      • burtgummer01

        DLC is a beast no question but the others not so much

  22. Klugo

    Senzel been having some real nice at-bats.

  23. Roger garrett

    Senzel showed his rookie year he is a 5 tool player.Right now with exception of the power he is doing it again

    • Mark Moore

      I’m fine with the more limited HR approach if it means he gets on base, drives more to the gaps, and goes oppo more often. HR’s only guarantee 1 run. Guys on base give us much bigger and better opportunities as we’ve seen this past week.

  24. Doc4uk

    Moose listed as starting again today. Farmer on bench? DFA Moose (he is a liability in the field and is not coming close to hitting a breaking ball) and call up McGary or even Moran. Both field and hit much better Place Votto on the 14 day DL and rest him until after all star break

    • Jim Walker

      I am going to wonder out loud if we are seeing the beginning of Votto’s departure as an active player; and, if it will end up being akin to the end of Pete Rose’s playing days.

      For you all too young to recall, Rose was player/ manager of the Reds at the time of his retirement as a player. Without comment, he dropped himself from being essentially an everyday player around Aug 1 of 1986, and made his final game appearance on Aug 17, with no fanfare. It wasn’t until the off season he (again quietly) moved through the required process to be officially listed as a retired player.

      The ~$32 guaranteed on Votto’s contract after this year certainly could be a key issue to be resolved. However, the glimpses we’ve had of Votto as a person versus as a player might suggest he would prefer this sort of under the radar departure then come back for bows at a later date.

      • Jim Walker

        And of course The ~$32 guaranteed on Votto’s contract after this year… was meant to be $32M

        Writers get reminded they are getting old when fragments of their thoughts don’t make it into comments even with the help of an editor and proofing. 😉

      • Moon

        Interesting thought. I have wondered if the Reds were not a better lineup when Votto is not playing, especially with India and Stephenson healthy. When Bell puts Votto and Moose into the middle of the lineup it has been a glaring hole most of the year. Maybe it is time for Joey to transition away from being an everyday player on a glide path to retirement.

      • Mark Moore

        I would hate to see this have been his farewell season, but you may be on to something. Essentially 3M is taking what would be his spots (DH or 1B) and performing well under what we would anticipate from even a waning Joey Votto. And at least JV is visibly in shape as opposed to 3M’s obvious “dad bod” look.

        I agree he’s a class act. There could be something in the works to buy him out on a staggered payment plan. It’s been done before.

    • LDS

      Moose again. Votto still out though Jim’s Rose analogy would be good for everyone. And Senzel, the Reds current hottest hitter is out. Is he injured or is Bell trying to shake his confidence?

      • LDS

        History has shown that Bell pulls folks regardless of performance. So, it wouldn’t surprise me.

  25. Mark Moore

    If you need any more evidence that DTBell makes out line-ups way in advance and very little will change them, today’s proposed slate demonstrates that at least to me. Senzel and Farmer “resting” (which I get) despite the former being red hot at the moment. 3M not only playing but with a glove on his flipper even after what we saw yesterday.

    I believe someone said something yesterday about a “swear jar” feature for a day or so. Seems like the line-up alone would probably fill it half way.

    • Kevin H

      Pham and Moose did nothing yesterday. Mike a liability at 1st was exposed.

      Farmer and Senzel doing well especially Senzel and both on the bench to start. India struggling yet still leading off.

      Why not give Pham, Moose and India the day off? Oh well Reds didn’t ask my input.


      • Mark Moore

        I’m less concerned with Pham. He doesn’t appear to be “phoning it in” and his defense in LF is still solid based on what I’ve seen. 3M is just baffling, especially after yesterday’s fiasco.

  26. greenmtred

    We don’t know yet how good the return was. Williamson, for one, could prove to be an excellent MLB player. The guys the Reds traded have not, for the most part, set the world on fire for their new teams, and would have needed expensive multi-year contracts.

  27. Mark A Verticchio

    Today’s line up is proof that Bell must go, 1. playing Moose at all let alone at first base and 2. not playing Senzel, they have a day off on Monday. I am sorry but Bell is a big part of the problem and sadly with this management the team is stuck with him. What astonishes me is that the players at least outwardly stick by him. I don’t think and I hope that is not the case behind close doors because if it is it shows these guys would rather be comfortable than win. Sorry for the rant but starting Moose again today is one of the weakest moves I have ever seen by any manager.

    • Mark Moore

      Bell is so attached to our beloved FO that he’s not going anywhere regardless of the ridiculous decisions he makes. I hope 3M hits 2-3 over the fence today and gets past that “stuck on 199” monkey. But he’s likely not going to perform any differently than we’ve seen. That one exception in recent memory was the deep liner to CF that scored the walk-off run. But unless my memory fails, Lil’ Nicky did the walk-off in better fashion last night, right?

      • Mark A Verticchio

        Mark, Moose is much more likely to strike out 3 times than hit a home run. I also don’t understand many people’s thing , Larkin. with his 199 home runs. To my knowledge other than personal satisfaction hitting 200 home runs doesn’t get much recognition in today’s MLB. You are right that this FO will never recognize what a horrible manager he is. Crap, my wife does nothing but complain about him every game.

      • west larry

        reply to Mark -maybe your wife should be the manager. With the team the front office left on his doorstep and the incredible number of injuries this year, I think Bell has done an okay job. Not outstanding, just okay, what qualified candidate would take this team under the financial restrictions placed on this team by the front office?

      • TR

        David Bell is not going anywhere as long as his father is an advisor in the front office. As someone recently stated, those who want managerial change are stuck until….

      • Earmbrister

        MV, I agree that moose looks bad at 1B, but who would you play there? It’s not like we have our next 1B on the roster. As for Votto, it would appear that his back problems are bigger than are being discussed. And re line up construction, are we really getting our undergarments in a knot about today’s lineup when we’re “50” games out of first?

  28. Optimist

    Given where inflation is, and where it is headed, I wonder the extent to which the Reds have hedged some of the long term contracts. Done correctly, they could afford a FA or 2 with the savings. Done incorrectly, they’re back to aligning resources to staffing. If done at all or even asap, it could allow them to DFA some a few months early. Not done at all would be an all too typical Reds thing to not do.

  29. Mark Moore

    Mikey Biceps shut down for a bit. His shoulder again.

  30. Mark A Verticchio

    Reply to Larry: I think she would do a better job. I think there are a lot of better qualified people who would take the job. It is still a chance to manage an MLB team which there are only 30 of. Let’s face it Bell is safe because of his name and father. There are very few teams that would not let their manager go after the start the Reds had especially after the team had folded the year before. Please defend Moose in the line up today.

    • west larry

      No way. Moose shouldn’t be in the lineup, that’s why I say he’s only okay. Two flaws I see with Bell. He likes to play the old guys and, until this week, I don’t like his bullpen management. Granted, the bullpen lacks talent, but Bell could have done a better job with what he has. Bell isn’t going anywhere until his contract is up. Remember how bad Price was? And he stayed about five years.

      • Mark A Verticchio

        We agree on a lot of issues, thanks,

      • greenmtred

        The bullpen lacks talent? Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? Since there is not a single reliable pitcher in the pen, how would you know who is going to get the job done? For that matter, with a very few exceptions–and the exceptions have missed time due to injury–the position players on the team are fading journeymen. Unless you know a legitimate alchemist who wants to manage, changing managers would leave you with a bad team with a different manager, Rail at the cheap owners.