The Los Angeles Dodgers completed the season sweep of the Cincinnati Reds on Thursday afternoon. Clayton Kershaw gave up just one run before Cincinnati got to the Dodgers bullpen for a few runs in the 7th inning, but it was too little, too late. The loss was the Reds 7th in a row overall and 8th in a row at home.

Final R H E
Los Angeles Dodgers (43-25)
10 16 1
Cincinnati Reds (23-46)
5 13 0
W: Kershaw (5-1) L: Greene (3-8)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

The Offense

It was 5-0 Dodgers before the Reds offense was able to get on the board in the bottom of the 4th inning. Tommy Pham led off the inning with a single, moved to second on a walk from Kyle Farmer, and then he scored when Donovan Solano singled.

With the Dodgers up 8-1 in the 7th, Los Angeles turned the game over to Phil Bickford. Not having to face Clayton Kershaw worked out well for the Reds. Nick Senzel led off with a single and Chris Okey followed up with one of his own. Brandon Drury picked up an RBI single to make it 8-2. That brought Tommy Pham to the plate and he unloaded with a 426-foot 3-run homer to make it 8-5. It was the last that they would score as they fell 10-5.

The Pitching

It wasn’t quite Hunter Greene’s day on Thursday afternoon. The Dodgers had nine hits – three of which were home runs – and scored six runs against him in 5.0 innings. It was a record setting kind of day, but not in the way Greene or the Reds had hoped.

Another home run would come after the tweet. It’s not the All-Star break, yet, either.

The Dodgers didn’t stop once Greene exited the game. Jeff Hoffman took over for the 6th inning and he would allow a run to make it 7-1. He returned for the 7th and gave up another run as the Dodgers made it 8-1 before Luis Cessa came on to record the final out of the inning. Ross Detwiler entered the game for the 8th inning and only recorded one out while walking a batter and giving up two hits (and a run) before exiting the game in favor of Hunter Strickland. He was able to get out of the inning without any more damage, but it was 9-5 at that point. Art Warren was welcomed to the mound by Trayce Thompson with a leadoff 401-foot home run into the bleachers in left field that made it a 10-5 lead for the Dodgers.

Notes Worth Noting

Donovan Solano had three hits in the game. Brandon Drury, Tommy Pham, and Nick Senzel all had two hits in the game.

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

Cincinnati Reds vs San Francisco Giants

Friday June 24, 10:15pm ET

Graham Ashcraft (3-1, 3.51 ERA) vs Alex Cobb (3-2, 5.62 ERA)

116 Responses

  1. Mark Moore

    We’re done playing the Dodgers for 2022, right? So that’s a positive (hard eye roll).

  2. Bet on Red

    Tried watching from after my appointment. was an innning or two behind. Saw LA putting run after run up, watched the 7th and that was it. I am reassessing my earlier prediction and do think that this team may lose 100 games. Heads need to roll at some point

    • Kevin H

      Would it make a difference with the roster make up? Reds bullpen is flat out terrible starting pitching up and down. Offense well who knows it comes and goes.

      • VaRedsFan

        Who’s in charge of the pitching?

    • David

      Well, watching this certainly made my eyes roll 🙂

      Since players and coaches have contracts and will be paid whether they are working or get fired and go home, my opinion is that the Castellini Brain Trust (CBT for short) will make them earn their pay.
      Therefore, neither Bell nor any coaches will be fired, and players with BIG contracts (I’m looking at you, Mike Moustakas) will stay put.

      I mean, c’mon man!

    • greenmtred

      It matters a lot more who the pitchers are. As for heads needing to roll, replacing players who aren’t good enough to be competitive would make a big difference, so ownership willing to do that is what’s needed.

  3. Votto4life

    I am ashamed to admit it, but I find myself almost rooting for the team to lose these days. The worst they are, the quicker change will come. At least that is what I tell myself.

    • Jim Walker

      Like Sultan, I relate.

      I pull for the individual players to do well in the situations they face but realize the numbers on BBRef and Fangraphs say as a team on any given day not enough of them will play well enough for the Reds to excel as a team.

      One way or another ownership must be unseated. Losing and more losing and even more losing will eventually do that.

  4. Kevin H

    Would a change in pitching coach help? Hitting coach? The manager? At this point who knows. Going 14-13 in May gave me some excitement, however this month to me is worse than April.

    • Joe P.

      The Reds went 3-18 in April.

      They are now 6-15 in June, with 6 games left in the month.

      • LarkinPhillips

        “Getting better in a weird way.” -David Bell

      • Daytonnati

        LarkinPhilips for the win! 🙂

  5. Moon

    Reds drop to 23-46. They lose two games for every one game they win. They have the worst record in the National League and second worst in all of baseball. If Oakland beats Seattle today (they are up 1-0, but only in the second inning) , the Reds will drop behind the Athletics and back into the basement. Thet series against the Dodgers was a Major League Baseball team playing a AAA club. I still do not believe the Reds are as bad as they have played. They are better than 5-6 other teams in baseball. We will see what they do at the trade deadline but it seems over the last 3 years anyway the Reds give away a lot of talent and get little to nothing in return.

    • Oldtimer

      The worst W-L % by any Reds team EVER (back to the 1880s) was .344 in 1934.

      This Reds team is sitting on .333 so far.

    • Steelerfan

      And of course they do it in the year where this a lottery and it does not guarantee them a top pick…

  6. RedsFanInFL

    A couple of thoughts as the Reds get pummeled by the Dodgers once again.

    1) This use to be the best rivalry in baseball.

    2) Orioles won WS 1970, lost ‘71 and ‘79

    3) Pirates won WS 1971 and ‘79 with a couple other playoff appearances that decade

    4) A’s won WS 1972, ‘73 and ‘74 – probably first team to be broken up due free agency

    5) Reds won WS 75, 76, lost ‘70, ‘72 and made playoffs ‘73 and ‘79

    6) Royals up and coming team got first place in AL west several times in 2nd half of ‘70s and then got to WS twice during the 80s.

    As of this morning, collectively they are 130 and 213 (0.379 winning pct = 61-101)

    Obviously the 70s was a great decade for Reds fan but also showed how many mid market teams could compete and sustain high level of play for 10 years. Now that only occurs with a select few teams that can $$$

    • Oldtimer

      Interesting analysis.

      The Reds path to greatness in 1970s was pretty straightforward. In no particular order:

      1. Hire a rookie manager would win two NL WS and one AL WS, and make HOF.
      2. Sign unheralded prospects (Rose, Perez) and develop both into HOF players.
      3. Draft a future HOF catcher in second round the first ever MLB draft. (Note: Tom Seaver and Nolan Ryan drafted in later rounds of same draft)
      4. Trade for a future HOF second baseman who was underrated.
      5. Develop a skinny Venezuelan free agent SS into the best SS in baseball in the 1970s.
      6. Trade for a power hitting OF who holds the Most HR by a Red ever (1977).
      7. Have players who win six NL MVP awards in 1970s.
      8. One more. Trade for aforementioned HOF pitcher (Seaver).

      Easy peasy.

      I forgot. Hire the best GM of his era (1960s and 1970s) to do most of the above.

      • Doc

        Until free agency really kicked in, that is a big difference, if not THE big difference, as noted by RedsFaninFL.

      • Oldtimer

        Yep. Howsam said free agency would turn baseball upside down.

      • TR

        Bob Howsom came over from St. Louis and, in general, was given a free hand and he got results, the BRM.

      • Oldtimer

        Bob Howsam traded for two HOF players in the prime years of their career. Joe Morgan (of course) and Orlando Cepeda. Nor any GMs can make that claim.

        He traded Ray Sadecki for Cepeda. Not too much different than Milt Pappas for Frank Robinson.

  7. JohnnyTV

    Greene needs help.
    His FB is getting pounded and folks are waiting on his slider cause it’s all over the place.
    I’m not suggesting Louisville, but wondering what advice he is getting.
    Uncle Bell just makes excuses and soothes egos.
    Certainly many stellar pitchers had rugged first years..or maybe more.
    We’ve seen this pattern, though, with a lot of promising young pitching talent.
    Pitching in a Little League park can’t help.
    Get the architects and engineers working on GASP.
    At least it will feel like some progressive action is being taken.

    • Ryan

      They laughed at people who originally wanted the stadium where the Casino is, with Mt Adams for a backdrop, but no it had to be jammed onto the riverfront

      • TR

        Mt. Adams in the background would have been like the Warehouse in the background at Camden Yard. Instead they squeezed it between Riverfront and the Collesieum. A vote was taken and the riverfront won. A missed opportunity.

      • RedsFan11

        It’s taken 20 years to get there but the banks was definitely a better option than the casino site. The only thing they did wrong imo was switching the outfield and home plate so the backdrop would be the city skyline, not some houses and buildings. Can’t even see the river anymore since putting up the worthless right field scoreboard in 2015

      • JohnnyTV

        I’m an architect with a considerable amount of large public building experience working closely with structural engineers. I worked as one of the ‘local architects’ on the former Rangers’ “Ball Park in Arlington”.
        One of the shortest lived stadiums….it should have had a roof, but the owner, future Governor and POTUS didn’t want to spend the $ and couldn’t muscle it out of the city.
        Suffice to say, I’ve never bought for a second the story that the short fences at GASP were due to ‘site and foundation issues’.
        I’ve worked with many structural engineers who could have dealt with such—-if there really were issues—right away.
        Lots of solutions, if that were the case.
        At a marginal cost considering the overall price tag of the stadium.
        How many bridges have their foundations along the Ohio River?
        The story I heard about GASP was that this was the house built for Junior and Dunn, and that Reds fans would love all the homers and fireworks.
        Best scenario has a folks unwilling to think things through and too cheap to do things right.
        Ever wonder why the Roebling Bridge is off axis with Cincinnati streets?
        This type of thing goes way back.
        If the Reds are banking on young pitching to lead them from the wilderness they need to do something about the outfield fences.
        What didn’t work for Junior and the Donk won’t work for Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, etc.
        Pittsburgh at least got the stadium right.

  8. Reddawg2012

    How many times would the Reds have to play the Dodgers before they would finally win a game right now? 10? 20?

    • Joe P.

      I doubt the Reds would win 1 game against the Dodgers if they played them 100 times. The Dodgers teed off on the Reds in this series. They weren’t even concerned about the outcome, they were just swinging as hard as they could and looking to launch balls out of the small park.

      • Mike V

        This of course is not a new problem . The right field wall needs to be moved back for sure . I am not an engineer, but I doubt much can be done in left field . At least give our pitchers an even break with all these opposite field HRs.

  9. Mark A Verticchio

    Whether firing Bell or not would make a difference doesn’t really matter. This is all about accountability and in pro, college and even high school sports, at times, that is simply the name of the game. Many managers and coaches have been fired simply because that is the nature of the beast. Why the Reds feel that they know better than anybody and continue to hold on to a manager and his staff who have simply failed is beyond me. 23 and 47 is a horrible record any way you slice and getting rid of Bell and most of his staff would at least show somebody cares.

    • burtgummer01

      It was pretty obvious how much the owners cared during the off season

    • David

      Well, getting rid of Bell would certainly matter! Why, the players all love the guy and play their hearts out for him. If he got fired, well, they might get sullen and not play hard and lose a bunch of games and…..hey, wait a minute. That’s what’s happening now!

      Truthfully, I have no answers. Their problem, honestly, is pitching. Their starting pitching is less than average, and statistically they have the WORST bullpen in the ML.
      Hard to win when a lot of days, their pitching puts them behind the 8 ball.

      Keep Castillo or not, their overall staff is lousy. They will finish last or next to last in the division, with or without him. Trade him if there are buyers, and the Reds get a good young player (or players) in return.
      In one way or another, get rid of all the guys over 30. That seems so….AGEIST!!! But it’s time to play the young guys and find out what the Reds have. Because right now, they don’t have squat.

      • burtgummer01

        The problem is that the Reds don’t have many young guys even vlose to ready thanks to poor trades and poor drafting

      • Joe P.

        “But it’s time to play the young guys and find out what the Reds have.”

        The young guys are still in other teams organizations.

      • Roger Garrett

        If the Reds had Aquino and Naquin ready to play along with TySteve and called up Barrero everybody except Joey would be under 30.Reds don’t want Senzel,Almora Naquin and AA in the outfield nor Barrero Drury India and Joey in the infield or TySteve and Okey behind the plate.They and a lot of fans want to see Pham and Moose and Farmer and now for sure Solano every day.Good grief keep Farmer as a super sub and Moose can DH and pick another guy for # 13 and lets play.Younger,more athletic can defend and run.Could also just cut Moose and pay him.Pham or Drury will not bring much at the deadline.Farmer might bring more but he is the heart and soul according to some of the worst team in baseball and maybe the worst team in Reds history.

    • greenmtred

      So because accountability usually means finding a scapegoat and firing him while leaving the real culprits unscathed, that’s what should be done? Symbols have meaning, but the symbolic act you advocate’s meaning is clear: See fans? We did something; we fired the equivalent of the middle manager when the rot was initiated at the top. Why not advocate for action that would make a substantive difference?

  10. Votto4life

    The Reds now have a winning percentage of .333. The worst winning percentage in team history is .344 in 1934.

    It is about to get worst as we play the Giants, Cardinals, Yankees and the Mets. Also, it’s likely that Castillo, Mahle, Drury and Pham will be traded next month So, I don’t see them getting any better.

    This team will likely be the worst team in Cincinnati Red’s history.

  11. MBS

    What a depressing slide. We’re getting healthy, and worse? Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

    I’m thinking of switching to watching our minors and look at the Reds box sores. That would be the inverse of what I traditionally do.

    • Joe P.

      “I’m thinking of switching to watching our minors”

      The Reds are 23-46 and Louisville is 24-43. Not much to see there.

    • Votto4life

      Unless you are going to only follow the Dragon’s box scores it’s not going to help much. Louisville and Chattanooga aren’t any better than the big league team.

      • MBS

        AA Chattanooga are 32 and 33, and I’m guessing De La Cruz, and Phillips will be promoted to that team very soon.

        It could be the most compelling team in the Reds organization. That’s not to mention some of the other A+ guys like Boyle who could also get a call up.

      • Votto4life

        Look at the lookouts individual stats. Just not a lot to be excited about. McClain has struggled since being promoted. I do like McGarry but he projects to be a bench player. I will concede that Abbott is promising and perhaps when they promote De La Cruz they will be more interesting.

  12. Roger Garrett

    Reds are just awful and with so many issues with leadership and the roster.Reds just have to unload some older players and players that will leave the first chance they get or are on one year deals before next season starts.Still have 50 mil on the books in 2023 so you either play Moose and Joey or release them.Reds just have to get younger and cheaper and more athletic.Its a young man’s game and we can discuss what young is but maybe we see something at the deadline to give us some hope.Right now their record says they are the worst team in baseball in a division that 3 out of the 5 teams in it are just as bad

  13. west larry

    I’m getting ready for spring training. Some of us in my group will be wearing bags over our heads. It’s really embarrassing to be a reds fan these days, and I’ll always follow the team, no matter how bad they are.

    • Jim Walker

      Designer head bags! That sounds like something that could become all the rage. Wonder if MLB would actually license them?

      • west larry

        Designer head bags-actually not a bad idea. If we made designer head bags, I wonder if the facility in Phenix would bar us from wearing them?

      • Tar Heel Red

        There have been fans with bags over their heads at GABP already this season. The ushers and security people at the stadium forced them to remove the bags or they would have to leave the premises.

  14. RedsGettingBetter

    Ross Detwiler should be DFA’d he doesn’t dominate lefties hitters being hit very frequently so the idea of keeping him for lefty-lefty situations is useless…
    Lost the overall series to LAD 0-7 and SD 0-6 resulting in 0-13 total.

  15. Brad

    The Dodgers did what good teams are supposed to do to crappy teams. Just pound them. And make no mistake, the Reds are a crappy team. That’s why they get pounded. We can blame this guy or that guy, but this team really only have about 8-10 real major league talented players. Until that changes the poundings will continue.

  16. Indy Red Man

    Get over to Korea and sign that young righty that I saw this morning. 95-98 with a changeup that Greene or Mahle could only dream of. The kid isn’t much older then Hunter. 23 in August I think

  17. CI3J

    I guess this is what it looks like when you “align payroll to resources”.

    • Gpod

      no…this is what it looks like when you “align inept management/ownership with a sports fanchise”

  18. Rob

    Before the losing streak, when the Reds were hanging around 16, 17, 18 under .500, I thought they had a chance to avoid 90 losses (16 under would be 73-89).

    I’m adjusting that to 100 losses. Since 3-22, they’ve gone an “improved” 20-24, a winning percentage of .455 over those 44 games. Project that over the remaining 93 and they finish 65-97.

    Play at the 23-46 overall-record percentage of .333 and it’s 54-108.

    My guess is it’ll be somewhere in between.

    • Votto4life

      The Reds keep telling us who they are and we refuse to believe them. This team is headed for 110 losses.

  19. J

    Every day that Bell keeps his job is another day in which ownership is effectively saying: “This is fine. It meets our expectations.”

    • Votto4life

      Exactly, another day with Nick Krall and David Bell is another day away we are from turning this ship around. Of course the same can be said about ownership.

    • Jim Walker

      Anyone else wondering if Bell might just walk away at some point prior to the end of the season?

      Bell had a great reputation as a guy on the rise with a successful organization (Giants) and was supposedly a hot enough commodity, it wasn’t a lock that he would come back to Cincinnati even given it is his hometown and his family’s generations-long connections with the Reds.

      Nothing that happened with the Reds prior to this year should have left any long standing damage to his reputation. But I think the situation is rapidly reaching
      the point where it will no longer be possible for anyone connected to the management of this team in 2022 to escape unscathed.

      Yeah, I know. If Bell walks, he leaves a lot of money on the table he will collect if/ when the organization fires him. However, BBRef estimates he made at least $24m as a player and there is also the player pension he can draw, not to mention how much he might lose in future earnings elsewhere if he gets tagged a loser now,

      • greenmtred

        Interesting speculation, Jim. I’d think that the rest of baseball is well aware of the Reds’ lack of competitive players and that most baseball people understand what some of us do not; that bad players don’t beat good players. But even so, being involved with this mess isn’t helping anyone.

      • old-school

        Jim, I’ve speculated on this several times and I do think their is a chance the Reds and Bell part ways after the trade deadline or after the season. Bell’s managerial record in his 4th season is now below .470 and for a young-ish guy with any aspirations for another 10-15 years involved in the game, this season is going to hurt his reputation-as it will everyone involved with this team- players, coaches, FO, ownership.

        The sooner he can separate and get this behind him, the sooner he can start rebuilding his brand. He can get a bench coach job at a good franchise for a few years or a player development VP like he did in SF and with his name recognition and broad coaching /player development background… will help him in a couple years get another opportunity. It will be easy in 2025 or 2026 for a team to hire him and view his Reds 2022 season and look back accurately and say, “boy that was a bad team…..He never had a chance. This time it will be different. ”

        But, that is going to take some time.

      • Jim Walker

        @gmtRed> What sets this team apart is the way they are being very bad. After looking to have stabilized and even turned a corner in May, they are now 6-16 in June., losers of 7 straight overall and 2-11 in their last 13 home games, including 8 straight home losses.

        And during June, the team has often looked terrible. They appear to have lost focus mentally to go along with their lack of physical capabilities.

        In addition to the 11 game losing run and current 7 game streak, there was also a 9 game losing streak. That’s approaching 20% of the total game count for the season in losses in just 3 streaks (and the 20% figure could be reached if the current streak continues).

        I suspect that even baseball people in the know about the Reds are going to question Bell’s skills at handling adversity when the goal is to marshal the troops and find a way to win a game.

      • Jim Walker

        @oldschool> Agree with you. If the Reds clean house at the deadline, that might be the time as opposed to the end of the season. Let Benavides or another interim guide the boat home.

        This might also be the time the front office can get a settlement from Bell that costs them less than his entire contract and for Bell an earlier exit with more money than a walkaway,

      • Tar Heel Red

        Agree with Jim. I would dearly love to see Bell walk/osuted and let Benevies finish the year. But I’ll go one step further…it is time for Votto to retire! I’m not saying the poor play is entirely his fault, but his skills at the plate have eroded and his defense/hustle has been awful. He has never been (or has ever aspired to be) a leader on the team. It is just time.

  20. Moon

    Oakland loses to keep worst record in Baseball. The As had a 1-0 lead going into the top of the ninth. But their relief pitchers walked 4 batters and threw 2 wild pitches allowing Seattle to score 2 runs without a hit or a sacrifice. Winker walked in that inning, and Suarez struck out haha. It is going to be really tough for the Reds to sink below Oakland. It is like they are trying to lose.

    • Alex

      They are. The As owner is actively sabotaging them so that fans don’t show up in their continued war with the league to move the team. That’s why it’s so impressive that the reds can keep up.

  21. Cyrus

    One of the things that disappoints me about the posts I read on the site (and I’ll get some push back for this but so be it) is how hard people try to be optimistic versus just recognizing reality. Over the past month, there have been posts saying that our starting pitching is so good and we are set for next year. And then posts about getting players back and how that was going to help. And then changing leadership was the real answer.

    Tyler Stevenson is the only player that may actually be able to play for almost any team in MLB…but he has health issues. Jonathan India has not strung together multiple years of successful play nor has anyone else that is old enough to be considered part of the future of this team.

    And here’s two key things to note about pitching today: 1) as more and more guys throw around 100mph, that speed will become “normal” for hitters and won’t produce what it did when Aroldis and a couple others were hitting the century mark. Professional hitters can adjust to any speed if it becomes the norm. 2) Young pitchers may have early success but, guess what, we are in the age of video and technology. Get enough outings under your belt and you become your own worst enemy unless you can actually “pitch”. Note how the rest of the season goes for these young guys that you are drooling over (case in point is Hunter Greene).

    Pitching and hitting coaches as well as managers really don’t move the needle much in MLB. At least that’s what I have read and heard from experienced players and coaches. By the time you get to the show, you either know what you are doing or you are still in the minors.

    The Reds need to have a robust system in place for identifying players with talent and being able to develop it in the minors. That is where we need excellent scouting and teaching. And I wonder if that will ever happen with current ownership.

    • Votto4life

      I agree Cyrus, as I mentioned of above the Reds keep telling us who they are and we don’t believe them.

      This is not the first month of the season, the season is almost half over. This is a team that’s going to lose well over 100 games.

      You are right, if you don’t know how to hit by the time you get to the big leagues, a hitting coach isn’t likely to help.

      This team is a disgrace. Everyone from Bob Casteillini to the bat boys should lose their darn jobs. I’m serious Krall, Bell, DJ and the whole coaching staff and scouting department.

      The Commissioners office should step in and take over the management of this franchise like they did with the Expos while back. It’s in the best interest of baseball and in the best interest of the Red’s franchise. They should force Castellini to sell.

      If you own a losing franchise fine, but you have an obligation to the sport and the city to try to win. If you are the worst team in baseball, you have an obligation to make changes. If for no other reason than to show your fans that you are trying to win. It is inexcusable to sit back and do nothing.

      David Bell should have been the first manager fired this year. He should have been gone after 3-22. Joe Maddon was fired. Joe Girardi was fired. But the Reds do absolutely nothing to even acknowledge they have a problem.

      Bob Castellini is negligent in his duty as an owner. This whole organization is a disgrace. The City of Cincinnati deserves better.

      If I was an owner of the Dodgers, it would absolutely sicken me to think I have to share revenue with the likes of Bob Castellini.

    • JohnnyTV

      I hear what you’re saying about “…either you know what you’re doing or….” but the Reds have had a steady stream of talented pitching ‘prospects’…of the top of the head:
      Stephenson, Cingrani, Iglesias, Chapman, Finnegan, Garrett, that couldn’t make the transition from MiLB to MLB in a rotation.

      And all for the same reason: they didn’t develop a full arsenal of pitches to get through a batting order 3 or 4 times.

      Cingrani only had one pitch. I know he was a head case, but were all those guys head cases, too?

      These guys didn’t have it figured out before they got force fed into MLB. And it doesn’t appear that anyone really helped them along the way.

      Iglesias and Chapman, of course, became top end relievers. But they were both touted as starters to anchor a staff.

      Hunter Greene is in the wake of that legacy.

      There’s an organizational problem in play here that’s been going on for some time now.

      I don’t think anyone is really there helping in a significant way.

      I may be a Cassandra, but I fear Greene has “situational reliever” written all over him if he stays in this organization.

  22. LDS

    Everyone focusing on the money coming off the books next year. I’ll repeat, the Reds payroll is reported as $117M with Moose & Votto consuming $41M, leaving $76M for the remaining roster. Cleveland’s payroll is $67M with $22M committed to Ramirez leaving a net of $45M for the rest of the roster. Cleveland leads their division. The Reds are the worst team in baseball. We, fans, have to quit using the money/small market argument to dismiss a dysfunctional organization. Yeah, this is a repeat but thinking that things will turn around in 2024 is just a pipedream. Competitiveness is not on the horizon.

    • MBS

      I agree you can be good with a small payroll, or bad with a big one. Those are called outliers, something that outside the expected results. However the Reds issues are a lot deeper than money, they mismanaged their rebuild. I’d say 2014 would be the beginning of the rebuild, but they really only wadded their toes in, that year, then took the full plunge in 2015.

      They got little to no return for Cueto or Chapman their 2 biggest trade pieces. Bob forced the trade of Chapman as a way to dodge a possible PR issue, and we hung onto Cueto too long to get any real value back. They also drafted poorly.

      2104: Nick Howard (failed)
      2015: Tyler Stephenson (good)
      2016: Nick Senzel (failed)
      2017: Hunter Greene (unknown)
      2018: Jonathan India (good)
      2019: Lodolo (unknown)
      2020: Austin Hendrick (not looking good)
      2021: Matt McLain (unknown)

      Castillo is our only trade piece that could bring back a significant return, hopefully Krall will bring back something better than Lamb, Finnegan, and Reed.

      Dick Williams FA pieces he brought in did not fit together at all, we had like 5 3B’s, Suarez, Moustakes, Castellanos, Senzel, and India. We had 0 shortstops, and we got lucky to be bailed out by our utility man / emergency catcher. The one thing I liked about Williams was he prioritized structure into our player development. I don’t know how much remains.

      • LDS

        Cleveland is certainly an outlier. However, of the 9 teams with smaller payrolls, only Oakland has a worse record. If they win tonight, all 9 teams would have better records. Your draft list is more telling than the money. And I have no confidence in Krall trading Castillo. Many of the writers suggest a Berrios style return. I don’t see Krall pulling that off. The Mets need pitching, go for Alvarez and Baty, maybe sub Rameriz or Vientos for Baty during negotiations. Get Alvarez, move Stephenson to 1st. Can it be done? Unlikely, especially since Krall will likely bundle Moose to dump payroll and accept another Nick Quintana, who at 24 is nearly 2 years older than his peers and performing poorly.

  23. Old-school

    I said a month ago this team will
    Lose 100 and what are bettings odds to go below 1982 worst team

    Oh no… they will find the median and its just injuries and bad luck and they arent that bad

    They are that bad!

    Reds dont have young core positional talent. They got India and an injured Stephenson and thats it.

    Barrero gets to write his script still in 2022

    Senzel isnt writing his script very well

    Pham drury Farmer Moose and Votto wont be here in 2024

    Bullpen is awful

    Derek johnson the pitching whisperer is taking steps backward on developing the kids … which is overwhelmingly his #1 task. Throw strikes and let hitters get themselves out

    AAA roster is barren

    Stay the course and accept reality

    This is a franchise barren of talent at the mlb and AAA and AA level

    Blow it up and acquire young talent through trades and drafting

    Dont sign anyone past 2023 – including Drury mahle and Castillo

    • LDS

      Works for me. But it’ll take organization changes to effect that and I don’t see those happening. I’m starting to wonder if, at 67, I’ll still be around for the next competitive Reds team. It’s looking pretty bleak out there. And in all honesty, what is out there will be wasted or ruined. But, hey, wins don’t matter. We still have barrels and BABIP. It’s just bad luck. With a little luck Greene would be ROY and Cy Young matching Valenuela’s 1981 feat. Joey would be MVP. Moustakas, the Comeback Player of the year. And Bell, why he’d be Manager of the Year and the Reds would win the World Series. Yep, It’s all just bad luck.

      • Old-school

        Are you saying David bell might not be the guy?

        I dont think bell is the manager of the next winning team, but I do think he needs to be removed but the only issue is timing. I would let things play out until the trade deadline and get the best roster return possible and once it is August 2nd and the new team is in place, thats when I would fire bell and let Benavides have 60 games as interim manager to finish the season and implement the FO strategy.

        Then circle the wagons in October.

      • LDS

        Why wait until August 2nd? Make the trades now. As for Bell? I’ve advocated his removal for years. But I realized this year that he’s the tip of the iceberg. There’s no accountability across the entire organization. Failure seems to not only be accepted, it’s expected.

      • Old-school

        You dont make trades now for leverage . Castillo has more value july 30
        When big markets desperate trying to topple other big markets they are trailing

      • LDS

        Some years, I’d agree. But, the Reds schedule argues against too much additional value generation. And with DeGrom and Scherzer both still out, the Mets may be desperate now and they don’t mind spending money.

    • Greenfield Red

      Almost all important hitters in the minors are striking out way too much. De La Cruz is improving, but still way too much. Fool’s gold.

    • Indy Red Man

      “Pham drury Farmer Moose and Votto wont be here in 2024”

      “Dont sign anyone past 2023 – including Drury mahle and Castillo”

      Can’t really agree with you here. 2023 is gone. Too far to go and too much dead money, but we have to hope 2024 could be different. If the young pitchers show some growth and the front office can do something with the payroll that opens up.
      We’ll need offense though and Farmer can produce that….esp vs lefties. Maybe they could move him back to an actual utility/platoon type player. I doubt he would bring much in a trade? Almora Jr. can play. Pham & Drury can hit and might sign reasonable deals for 2023-24. I wouldn’t go past that and if they could bring young talent then make the deal. Pham was out there playing today! He brings some fire and he’s been on winning teams with winning cultures. Same thing with Almora Jr.

      The thing is Almora Jr. would need to bat 9th on a good team. Pham or Drury maybe 6th at best, but we’re a long way from developing any good positional players. Barrero Ks 2-3 times a night in AAA. Not good.

      Usually in life its never as good as it seems or as bad, but maybe in this case it is that bad. They need divine intervention or something

  24. Redhaze

    I hate to say it but I am serious. Someone needs to call Elon Musk. Call Theo Epstein. We are currently a AAAA baseball team.

  25. JB

    Dodgers come into Cincy struggling. They leave after they beat the daylights out of the Reds. Get use to it. It doesn’t get any easier in the next 4 weeks.

    • Andrew Brewer

      I don’t know when I ever saw such a barrage of hitting. The Dodgers looked like a juggernaut. They hit 5 homeruns today !
      The Reds scored, 2, 4, and 5 runs against the first and second best pitchers in baseball, and then got 4 runs off the Dodger relievers, after Kershaw retired for the evening, after giving up 1 run. The Reds had 13 hits today.
      The Reds did not commit any errors that I recall, and looked good in the field.
      I have seen the Reds explode for big runs twice this year.
      I have to agree with Bell’s assessment. The Reds are getting better, but need some competition (like the D’backs) that is not playing over the top. (And making the ball park bigger is not the solution.)

      • Votto4life

        “The Reds are getting better” huh?

        How in the world can you look at this team and say they are getting better?

      • JayTheRed

        Seriously!!! W stands for Win L stands for Loss, Very little hope in sight. I don’t know what your seeing that makes you think they are getting better.

  26. Indy Red Man

    Even the Orioles are showing some improvement. They just said they have the 7th best reliever era in baseball.

    Doesn’t help the Reds that Sims, Justin Wilson, Diaz, and Santillan are all hurt, but we need some new blood. Maybe Justin Dunn or Antone can help in the future, but nothing you can count on. The White Sox are just using Reynoldo Lopez for middle relief and he’s still got an elite arm. 98+ with a 90+ slider. He could evolve into a high leverage guy with some good coaching! Maybe they’d want Pham and we could get a prospect too. The Reds just have to be better then this?

    • William

      I hope your right about Barrera. I said I am all for giving him the chance. He has hit major league pitching well, yet. I will believe you when I see it.

  27. Rednat

    just got done watching the nba draft. i Know being a reds fan is tough but imagine being an Orlando Magic fan. if the Magic were a baseball team playing 162 games instead of 82 their win totals over the past 10 years would be 40,46,50,70,58.50,84,66,42,44.

    these win totals are coming to a mlb team near you. if not this year than definitely next year when the divisions are busted up and everybody plays everybody.

    the problem is that in both the nba and mlb now you just don’t have enough talent to support 30 teams right now. both league drafts are a joke. the magic drafted a kid out of Duke , Paolo Banchero. lET ME SAVE YOU SOME SUSPENSE, He ain’t Michael Jordan ok. he will probably contribute as much to the Magic as Senzel has to the reds.

    I really think it is less about economics and more about absence of talent in both leagues. Kids are not playing baseball and basketball anymore. they are playing football and it is coming home to roost. This is why the NFL is so competitive now.

  28. jim m

    The sad part is the ownership just doesn’t care they are awful.. I get tired of watching Bell spill garbage how they are going to get better. Hard to do that with a bullpen that is awful, Not to mention Bell is okay with all of this.. Can you imagine Pinella being ok with a awful put together team??? AND until BOB opens his books I do not believe he cant afford to make this team better. IF he cant then SELL THE TEAM!! Stop pretending you have not wavered from Winning when your actions dictate your ok with losing!!

  29. GreatRedLegsFan

    It seems that most players currently in IL will return sometime in July, as only Lodolo is set to return this month and Antone and Wilson will return next season, so many roster moves are set to happen soon.

  30. Jim t

    Folks this is a bad team. It was a bad team on opening day. Did anyone think this was a contending team when the year began? Our 2 biggest expenditures have both seen better days and still have another year left totaling 50mil. We will never be a contending team as long as this ownership is in place. Don’t you folks remember? Where are we going to go????

  31. William

    It is hard to have a competitive team without money. I rooted for the Reds to beat the Dodgers. However, I enjoy watching the Dodgers more. I like talented teams. The system is rigged against the Reds right now. They might be competitive in 2025.

    • Alex

      I’ll say this everyday until ppl stop using this excuse. Andrew Friedman would accomplish 20x more with the reds payroll then the reds owners would with the dodgers money. The reds are not well run and no amount of money would change that.

      • Indy Red Man

        I agree the Reds are a mess, but the system is rigged. LA was already good and added Betts, Turner, and Freeman. The Yankees can pay a 40 HR hitter to bat 9th. Its ridiculous

  32. Luke J

    Something I noticed about Barerro this week. I’ve been watching closely to see why he looks different at the plate. He stands WAY too far from the plate. He didn’t do that when he was tearing up the minors last year. He’s a full foot farther away than the other hitters. He physically can’t reach the outside of the plate with his compact swing. Teams just pound the outside and he can’t touch it. When they make a mistake and pitch middle in, he crushes it. I really think it’s as simple as a move in the box. If it’s the case, I wonder why no one is trying it? I could be wrong, but I noticed it a few games ago and have been watching every hitter since on every level to compare. And he is definitely farther away from the plate than all of them.

  33. William

    The Reds must get an impact position player for the 2025 team when they trade Castillo. It would be good if they could get two top 100 MLB prospects, but they cannot miss like they did with Cueto and Chapman.

  34. William

    A small market team must have smart owners.

    • TR

      Smart owners with money they’re willing to spend.

  35. William

    I have my doubts about Barrero, Senzel, and Aquino. They can keep giving these guys a chance, but need to look beyond them for position players for 2025. I think McClain, India, De La Cruz, and Stephenson will be on the field in 2025.

    • rhayex


      What “chance” have they given Barrero? He’s had a grand total of *124* plate appearances in the major leagues! That’s less than a fourth of a single season! Over HALF of those came in 2020 when he was called up straight from high-a during the COVID year due to the Reds absolute desperation!

      Reds fans are driving me bonkers with how fast they’re turning on prospects. I’ve started seeing takes about how Greene and Lodolo “just can’t cut it” in the majors – like, what the actual heck??? You can make an argument they aren’t ready for the majors *right now* (I’d say that’s a fair take and they likely need more time in the minors to develop while conserving service time so the Reds could keep them under team control for an extra year, potentially two if they called them up next year instead of this one), but to say they “can’t cut it” after less than half a season of starts (even less for Lodolo) is absolutely absurd.

      So many fans on social media are crowing about how McLain is “the future” and that the Reds “need to move on from Barrero” – McLain is a single year younger than Barrero, has hit *worse* at AA than Barrero has at AAA, *and is a worse overall defender with less power*! Those same fans are going to turn on him in a HEARTBEAT if he comes up and hits .220 over 100 plate appearances to start his career.

      I’m so tired of fans talking about things they have absolutely 0 idea about.

      Sorry if you wind up having to moderate this comment Doug, I don’t normally comment here but I’ve been getting driven bonkers by comments on here, reddit, and twitter, and this comment wound up being the last straw.

    • Luke J

      Apparently you haven’t seen McLain. He’s 1/2 the hitter and 1/4 the athlete Barrero is.

    • Votto4life

      Come on William Barrero hasn’t been given a chance. I wish the Reds gave him a chance. He by no means deserves to be mention with Senzel and Aquino.

  36. Steven Ross

    Turned on the game and saw Reds were down 6 to 1. Turned it off. What did I miss?

    Hey, I’ll be at the game Saturday in SF. Hope we don’t lose too badly.

  37. Bill J

    Let’s wait till August to make any trades. By then everyone worth trading will be injured and out for the remainder of the year. Trade while the value is high and the players are healthy.

  38. LeRoy

    David Bell is a good human being. His biggest fault is that he listens to higher mangement and does exactly what they want him to do so he can keep his job. It really amazes me to see him after each game being so positive and calm. Not only does he not want to make management mad but doesn’t want to hurt any players feelings either.
    Chances are after each game he goes somewhere and screams and steams for 30 minutes or longer to let out the feelings he never reveals in public. I feel for him cause I know how it feels not to want to lose your job, especially a job he’s probably wanted since his playing days. Good luck to the Reds and good luck to David Bell.

    • Indy Red Man

      I’d like to see someone new manage the Reds, but I also feel for Bell. They give him a garbage bullpen comprised 100% of unproven guys or guys that are over the hill then Sims, Wilson, Diaz, and Santillan are all injured. Then the Dodgers come to town…lollllllll.

      Its like putting a jockey on a donkey and then asking him to win the Kentucky Derby.

      • west larry

        Bell is like a puppet on strings, He does what he is told, given mostly AAA talent, and apparently do the best he can- put lipstick on that pig and call it beautiful, I don’t think anyone can win with this talent level, if he is replaced, good luck to the next guy-I wish him well but it’s almost impossible to win with this ownership group.

      • Indy Red Man

        I know we’re all frustrated, but management did bring in Bauer, Castellanos, Gray, Miley, Moose, and Shogo. They took a shot atleast. Pittsburgh isn’t doing that. Heck the Cubs have 3x the resources of the Reds and they never really tried to add anyone besides Darvish to repeat their WS win.

        Atleast that tells me they might spend some money in the future if the young talent developed and we somehow got closer to respectable.
        They have to spend some dang money on the bullpen though? This is ridiculous.

      • old-school

        And Indy’s guy Ben Lively to the IL with a R flexor strain. Scratch him from the conversation for a promotion.

      • Jim Walker

        Then this year, nobody remembered to tell the “donkey” or the jockey riding him that he was a donkey; and, look what happened. 😉

  39. William

    I hope your right about Barrera. I said I am all for giving him the chance. He has hit major league pitching well, yet. I will believe you when I see it.

  40. William

    I meant he has not hit major league pitching well, yet.

  41. Magnum 44

    I like Farmer too but he is a super utility guy on a good team, but not your starting shortstop. They need to quit playing games bring up Barrerro, and trade either Drury or Farmer.

  42. William

    Barrera came up the last two years and could not hit the MLB pitching. I watched about all the games. He did not have a lot of bats. I understand. You can be a good athlete and just not hit at this level. Famer gets criticism all the time on this site. However, he is one of the better players on this team. I hope Barrera is better than what I have seen. You would think he is the second coming of Mickey Mantle listening to some posts on here. I see a great athlete that could not hit the good pitching the two chances he had to prove himself. YES, I support playing him and have not said anything different. I am tired of all this hype that I have seen with players like Senzel especially.