The Cincinnati Reds are one of the worst teams in baseball and the Los Angeles Dodgers are one of the best, and that is exactly how it looked at Great American Ball Park on Tuesday night. The Dodgers roughed up the Reds pitchers for 17 hits in an 8-2 win that saw just two hits – both from Joey Votto – after the 2nd inning by Cincinnati.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Los Angeles Dodgers (41-25) |
8 | 17 | 0 |
| Cincinnati Reds (23-44) |
2 | 5 | 0 |
| W: Gonsolin (9-0) L: Mahle (2-6) | |||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
The Offense
Tony Gonsolin has been arguably the best pitcher in baseball this year. Jonathan India didn’t care, leading off the bottom of the 1st inning with a game-tying home run. That might have rattled Gonsolin for a second because Brandon Drury followed up with a single and Tommy Pham was hit by a pitch. Gonsolin, though, got Joey Votto to fly out and then induced a double play off of the bat of Kyle Farmer to escape the inning with just the one run.
In the next inning it was another solo home run for Cincinnati, this time coming off of the bat of Albert Almora Jr. It gave the Reds a 2-1 lead for the time being. That was the last hit that the Reds would get until Joey Votto doubled with two outs in the 6th inning with Cincinnati trailing 4-2. He was stranded on the bases. Votto would also get the next, and final hit for the Reds with one out in the 9th inning when he singled. It wasn’t nearly enough as the Dodgers pounded out 18 hits to the Reds 5, winning 8-2.
The Pitching
Tyler Mahle gave up a 2-out solo homer to Will Smith as the Dodgers took a 1-0 lead. After Cincinnati grabbed a 2-1 lead in the bottom of the 2nd inning, Los Angeles got back to work with four straight hits to begin the inning and were back on top 3-2. They would add another run in the 4th when Justin Turner led off with a double off of the walk and scored on a sacrifice fly. Mahle didn’t give up any runs in the next two frames, but exited after the 6th inning down 4-2. He worked around a lot of baserunners, giving up 12 hits and a walk over the course of his outing.
Reiver Sanmartin took over in the 7th and tossed a perfect inning. He returned for the 8th and gave up two singles with a strikeout in-between them before being replaced by Luis Cessa. He gave up a single to Trea Turner on a swinging bunt that went about 30 feet that loaded the bases. Freddie Freeman then unloaded them with a triple off of the wall in center to make it 7-2. Will Smith followed with a sacrifice fly and it was 8-2 in the blink of an eye. Dauri Moreta tossed a shutout top of the 9th, but the Reds offense needed a touchdown in the bottom of the inning and Joe Burrow and Ja’Marr Chase didn’t walk through that door.
Key Moment of the Game
Freddie Freeman’s 3-run triple in the 8th inning. While the Dodgers already had the lead, if there was any doubt that the game was over before that point it was definitely over after he made it a 7-2 game.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Los Angeles Dodgers vs Cincinnati Reds
Wednesday June 22nd, 6:40pm ET
Tyler Anderson (8-0, 2.82 ERA) vs Luis Castillo (2-4, 3.33 ERA)
This team is a joke anymore
#LetTheMooseLoose or #FreeTheManatee
+1,000
I forgot all about this game until it was over. Just checked the box score. Nothing to see here…move on. But I am reminded of listening to NIck Senzel say in a podcast that the team was definitely not losing 100 games. I guess he was thinking more like 110??
Wow, talk about being outclassed! Dodgers pound the hapless Reds, 17 hits to 5. It is amazing how lopsided this game was going against dodgers top starter and bullpen and the reds second best starter and bullpen. Our reds really stink. I know the record is bad but seeing the contrast between these two teams is really stark.
There is a really long road ahead back to some kind of competitiveness with the better teams in the league.
LAD payroll $260m. Reds $117m. This is why I lost interest in MLB and I’m not alone.
+1,000
I fortunately had an airport run and could only listen. Sounds like Mahle finally pitched to contact. I hope Dennis is happy! 🙂
About a week ago, the Reds were tied with the Cubs. They haven’t won since then and the Cubs have won just enough to not be in last place. They are 1/2 game ahead of Oakland who is still playing. If Oakland wins, the Reds will have reclaimed the worse record in baseball.
Oakland r 2 games behind of us so we r 2 games away of tie them for worst record which nationals r tied with Oakland with 46 loses we have 44 loses.
When calculating GB, wins count. Had Oakland won tonight, they would have had one more win and one more loss than the Reds, making the Reds the worst record in baseball. That’s been delayed a couple of days.
Where is Schrock or Reynolds or Okey? My buddy wants to come down Thursday for Kershaw/Greene and I want to, but I’ve also resisted financially rewarding the blowhards that run this organization. I haven’t been to a game since Dusty’s last year whenever that was.
Idk? I love baseball, but the system is broken. Its like rooting for Akron vs Ohio State or something. Its just not designed for the Reds to be contenders. Even if they did hit lightning in a bottle then its a quick dismantling like the Nats did a few years ago. You have to pay world champions more then chump change.
Everyone wanted dusty baker gone but I knew once we let him go we would never be good team. I hope 2023 with no more shift our defense got back to their roots.
The way the Dodgers were hitting the ball I was sure somebody would get hurt out there. They need to cancel the next two games for the safety of the Reds players.
Wait til we face Stanton and Judge..lollllllll. Seriously Stanton could kill one of our pitchers. I wouldn’t put SanMartin or Strickland out there without a helmut
This season may just do me in as a Red’s fan. I find myself not even caring about baseball in general. I don’t think I have watched a game not involving the Reds all season. I usually keep close tabs on other teams.
The sport is almost unwatchable anymore. The NFL is such a superior product these days.
I love baseball history and will continue to read about it the rest of my life, but I am not sure how many more seasons like this I can put up with.
It makes me anger that the owners and players have ruined a games I loved so much.
The Reds will never compete as long as they are being out spent 2 to 1. You can’t beat teams with $200,000,000 payrolls through the draft. Yeah, a team like Tampa Bay may make the play-offs, but how many championships have they won?
Thank God football season starts soon.
Stop making this excuse for them. The braves won with a middling payroll, the Yankees haven’t won in a decade. The reds are run poorly and no amount of money would change that. The Cardinals produce a winning product every year picking at the bottom of the draft. And no, it’s not because of the sell outs in their stadium. The sell outs in the stadium are because of the successful product they put on the field. Well, that and their trust fund baby clown owners don’t actively antagonize the fans.
Cleveland has a very low payroll, a small market, and the division lead. It’s not the money. It’s the management and ownership.
@Alex, you got to be kidding, right? You say the Yankees haven’t won in a decade.
Yankees:
21: 92 – 70
20: 33 – 27
19: 103 – 59
18: 100 – 59
17: 91 – 71
16: 84 – 78
15: 87 – 75
14: 84 – 78
So in the last 5 year 2 CS, 2DS, and a wild card game. Seems like they are winning. I did see that losing season the Yankee’s had, it was in 1992 in fact they had 4 of them in a row 91, 90, and 89.
Yankee’s payroll in 92 was 35.9M
Reds payroll in 92 was 35.2M
Yankee’s payroll in 91 was 27.8M
Reds payroll in 91 was 25.3M
The Braves:
21: 88 – 72
20: 35 – 25
19: 97 – 65
18: 90 – 72
17: 72 – 90
16: 68 – 93
15: 67 – 95
14: 79 – 83
Teams without unlimited money lose about as often as they win, some have the right prospect develop, but eventually they need to let them go get their big payday elsewhere. So yes money is the driving force on who wins and who loses.
Alex, I agree the Reds are poorly run. But I also believe money plays a big factor when it comes to who wins and who loses. Teams like the Reds have a very slim margin of error. So, yes they can compete for a title every seven or eight years, but A lot of things have to go right.
The Reds are a poorly run organization with the worst ownership in Sports, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have the deck stacked against them.
Well, Mahle did keep us in the game – 6 innings and 4 runs is the modern equivalent of a quality start. As usual, the bullpen didn’t uphold their end of the bargain. There is probably no bigger priority this off-season than fixing the bullpen. This is going on 4 years for DJ & Bell – fix it already!
I’d really like to see Senzel develop into a reliable starter but I’m losing patience. However, I think that no matter what we need to give him 300 at bats (6 more weeks) to give him a chance to turn it around. But man is it hard to look at his statistics and Almora’s and Friedl’s defense is better.
Not to mention Almora’s offense is at a level clearly higher than Senzel’s.
There is only ~14 months difference in their age but Almora is coming out of team control after the 2023 season while Senzel has 3 seasons of team control (through the 2025 season) remaining but is already making $1.25M.
Maybe the team should figure out what the next three years of Senzel at arbitration rates would cost the and offer that to Almora in a 2 year deal since they’s be buying his first FA year? If Almora takes it, just move on from Senzel.
Mahle gave up 12 hits in 6 innings but got copious praise from David Bell. I did notice that a lot of the hits came on pretty good pitches as if the Dodgers knew what he was going to throw. They probably did the preparation and the Reds were flat footed as the post game interview suggested. I also noticed that Senzel had at least 2 K’s that lasted 3 pitches, almost collided (again) with another outfielder, and also tried the David Bell “aggressive” defense that allowed Freddy to get a bases clearing triple. Other “mental errors” occurred but David Bell has no problem with this. The Cowboy also riffed on this but wasn’t sure which coach would be responsible for this, there are so many. The Moose and Joey Votto continue to flail but younger and (yes) better players at this moment get nothing but splinters. With the score 8-2 and a play at first where the call was obviously correct, David Bell challenges because it is his right to do so. But, what possible purpose is being served here? This is getting too pathetic to watch anymore but I suppose the Reds still have a chance to humiliate the Dodgers, just by winning 1 of the next 2 games.
Bell can say anything he wants as long as he doesn’t show up his boss or Bob.Dude has best job in MLB in that he isn’t held accountable for wins or losses or developing players or their performance.Older players have to love him.Nobody is fearful of losing their job.The older the more security a player has.Just wish I had a boss like that
I get Reds fans ready frustrated. Who isnt?
But other than India, what positional player started today that is part of a winning solution in 2023 or more? Votto is fading but not the problem. Senzel isnt the solution either. Almora is a positive on this team but not on an NLCS team in 2024. Farmer is ok but fading range and not part of 2024. Catching is awful. Pham is a rental. Drury is solid but a FA in 4 months. Moose is awful. What players on this horrific last place team are part of the 2023/24 solution? India and who?
Old School. The Reds need a couple of 4 or 5 WAR type players. And the rest of the team needs to be pretty good.
I like India, but maybe a 3 or 3.5 WAR player. He’s solid. Tyler Stephenson is a good catcher. Maybe about the same value at peak.
Drury is not a youngster, and this may be a career year for him. I would like to see the Reds keep him, but also wonder what he would be worth in a mid-season trade this year…to the right team.
Moustakas is not worth anything to anybody. Frankly, neither is Senzel.
Farmer may have value to the right team…right now. But he has too much “veteran presence” and they won’t trade him. He’s part of that winning clubhouse attitude.
I would keep Almora for now, because, who else is there? Naquin and Aquino are still hurt. Who else can play center field when Senzel gets hurt again in a few weeks?
Friedl or Fairchild are both at AAA. I suppose one of them is next man up in CF if Senzel and Almora are both unavailable.
“War” player? what does that even mean? I am not being a critical, just asking. India is a darn good baseball player. Not sure what a war has to do with anything, or what it is lol
2024/2025
1B Expensive Free Agent
2B India
3B De la Cruz
SS McLain
RF Hinds or Expensive Free Agent
CF Barrero
LF Hendrick/Allen
C Stephenson
DH Votto
2025 Playoffs. 2026 World Series Runner-up. 2027 World Series Champions.
That is the future.
Be excited.
For the fans thinking that the team can make a playoff run in 2024, keep dreaming. They are losing 100+ this year and next year and maybe slightly better in 2024 if guys like Barrero, McClain, Siani, De La Cruz, Hinds, Hendrick, etc make it. There are not many cornerstone players that will help turn this thing around in 2024. The franchise is so mismanaged and delusional at trying to “remain” competitive at the expense of the future. They badly need to cut Moose and trade Castillo and Mahle for some impact OF’s and bring up Barrero for the experience to at least give the fans some hope for the future.
Never fear!
Donovan Solano is here! We are about to turn this thing around.
Yeah, I don’t think the Reds will win more than one game (?) on this home stand.
Three straight losses to the Brewers
Three straight losses to the Dodgers
Maybe win one against the Giants.
But hey, they are maintaining a winning attitude in the Reds’ clubhouse. I heard that somewhere. That’s why they won’t trade any veterans that might have trade value.
Logical.
Flawlessly logical.
It’s hard to have enthusiasm for a team that has Top Management partners that are not only not interested in winning now, but not interested in winning in the future, either. Winning? Not interested. Thanks, we have great clubhouse chemistry. Can’t break that up.
I’m sure that there are some great Bob Castellini quotes from 2008 or so about winning and such, but recalling them now would just be sort of mean and too sarcastic.
Which veterans are other “contending” teams beating the door down that they have to have?
The difference in quality players between Dodgers and Reds is obviously overwhelming. Fortunately the Reds don’t belong to the west division where facing 19 times the Dodgers, 19 times the Padres and the same number to the Giants would be a 135-loss season easily …
I don’t like Sanmartin as Reds major league pitcher and staying in the rebuild of the team either… Leaving him at AAA…
A long losing streak has started again , what a shame…
We used to laugh at the Pirates but, they brought up2 players yesterday and together they have 8 RBIs in 2 games.
This is the scariest part about our hometown team. Losing is necessary in the small market world. But when others are clearly doing it better than you, where is the faith?
Castellini has turned over 4 coaches. 4 GMs, and has nothing to show from any of it besides 2 first round playoff loses
Coming up on 20 years of ownership, who has faith in the current system?
The Reds are going to be 35 games under .500 at the all-star break. Yet, nobody gets fired. Same line up everyday. Bell just says “We’ve got to get better”. Nothing changes.
I think the worst Red’s season, in my lifetime, would be more bearable, if someone in the organization would at least act like there was a problem.
The only “problems” this ownership is sensitive to are those involving cash flow.
#SelltheteamBob
I’m with sell the team, but look how much the teams grown in value. The group bought the Reds for 270M, it’s valued at 1.19B. I hope they do cash out, but in 5 years, it will likely be worth 1.5B or more.
The way I see it is from a business standpoint, anywhere else the board would have ask the CEO to stepdown long time ago, triggering a management staff change. However, in the Reds world, results apparently doesn’t matter and Castellini, Krall and Bell can comfortably continue in their seats, what a pitty.
Imagine this. The Williams and Castellini’s have run their real businesses into the ground and this team is their only source of revenue.
The Reds should take at least one at home from the Dodgers. They took 2 of 3 from the Giants here at home not long ago. The pitcher they were up against today had the best stats in the league. The Reds homered twice off him. I’m looking forward to the Reds becoming giant killers. So they are last place. In football they say, “on any given day”, and how much more so is that in baseball ? Put the hits together and you can win. Great pitching beats great hitting. We all know that. This game was not the utter destruction it is being made out to be. Keep backing our boys, because they can play ball !
I kind of miss the days when players like Billy Hamilton and Drew Stubbs were the worst hitters on the team, but got playing time because of their speed and defense.
Sadly, guys like Hamilton and Stubbs would be among the best hitters on the 2022 Reds.
I’d easily take them over the 2022 versions of Senzel, Aquino, Friedl, Moose, Moran, Reynolds, Votto, Fraley, Okey, Lopez, or Garcia, etc.
Envious of Dodger fans. Dang, they have an AS team.
Reds core nucleus/roster 2020 +
SP Gray,Castillo,mahle
C Barnhart
Inf Votto/Suarez/Moose
OF Winker Castellanos/Senzel
BP Iglesias/Lorenzen/Garrett
Reds Core nucleus 2023:
Greene/Lodolo/Ashcraft- Need more
C Stephenson, need more
Inf India/Barrero- need more
OF -Need a lot
BP need a lot
DFA Moose at the end of the year. Meet with Votto and let him know REds arent picking up his 2024 option and mutually plan a classy respectful last year in 2023.
Reds are in the middle of a roster blow up in 2022. Mahle and Castillo need to retrieve 3 young players to add to the 2023 core.
They have to stick with the roster reconstruction plan and crush the 2022 draft and 2023 draft.
2022 is the low point
2023 is a transition year for the new core
Krall and ownership have to view 2023 season as a transition to winning in 2024. I would keep Bell through the trade deadline into August and then let him go and replace him with interim Benavides and align 2023 transition year with a new core/roster/manager/coaching staff. Bell is now 29 games under .500 as a manager. He may not be the biggest problem, but it will be time for a new voice leading the Reds in 2023 to coincide with the new core of Reds players.
You are far too optimistic. You guys have convinced that Bell isn’t going anywhere. Some here actually thinks he’s doing a good job. But the organization simply isn’t serious at this point. And next year will be more of the same: old and cheap retreads that Bell feels comfortable with. Potential young stars vegging in the minors or riding the pine. It’s been the pattern for more than 3 years. It’s not changing next year with this organization. I’ve been a Bell critic on here for several years and even I’m tired of hearing me. There’s no accountability in this organization. Expecting things to change in the future feels like wishful thinking on our part.
The player needs are great and it looks like not much progress will be made on identifying any more of that core unless Krall can pull off a a good trade in the interim. I think the Bell to Benevides transition point is also critical, a real disciplined and winning attitude needs to be instilled into the team instead of a cheerleading, fanboy bent. Looks like another good analysis but who knows what motivates ownership to move forward anymore.
Benevides has been there for a while. I’ve not followed him but is there any reason to think he has what it takes?
It is way beyond time that major organizational changes would usually have been made in Redsland. But I know, with this principal ownership, it’s not going to happen this season or, for that matter, whenever.
The new playoff format gives the Reds a legit chance to make the playoffs every year. They dont have to beat the Dodgers or Yankees or Red Sox to get there and once you are there- elite SP can beat anyone.
It’s top 3 division winners, then next 3. Had the 2022 format been in play last year, the Reds would have made the playoffs and gone to Atlanta for a best of 3 series.
Pirates stink. Cubs stink. Brewers pitching is getting too expensive for them and Cards while always developing players will have an aging cornerstone in Goldschmidt(37) .Arenado is 31 now and having a career type year and has an opt out. Freddie Freeman Marcus Semien and Kris Bryant similar ages over 30 as Arenado and all got between 160-182 mil in new money this past off-season. Cards owe Arenado $144 mil after this year with big declines at the end of his contract. He may opt-out.
NL central is up for grabs in 2024 and Reds can absolutely beat the Pirates and Cubs in their rebuild and pass the Brewers as they exit their winning window.
The Reds making the playoffs every year? OS do you live in Oregon or somewhere with legalized plant life? The way this franchise is run making the playoffs once a decade is up for debate.
Based on playing in the same division as the Cubs,Pirates, and Brewers. Yes. Reds have never committed to an organizational philosophy of draft and develop and acquire and churn through a pipeline of young players. Rays dominate the minors every year and because they are willing to trade Delmon Young and Matt Garza and Chris Archer and Blake Snell and Aubrey Huff and Evan Longoria and James shields at peak value for hauls and hauls of young cheap players.
Reds panic and pivot and hold on too long. Remember when they had Jay Bruce for Brandon Nimmo until they didnt and it became Dilson Herrera? Didn’t trade Zach Cozart before he got hurt? Jocketty bungled the first rebuild, Dick Williams and crew bungled the Bailey trade and signings of Moose .Akiyama.
Krall has said they are committed to drafting and developing and acquiring young talent and getting a pipeline of players. I dont miss any of the players traded x Winker’s lefty bat. IF they trade Mahle and Castillo for a haul and draft well next month, they can reboot by 2024. Reds arent in the NL West or Al East.
I saw the Bengals execute a plan in 2 drafts of acquiring offensive weapons and 2 cycles of free agency getting a defense and they went from laughing stock and no playoff wins in 31 years to 3 playoff wins in 3 weeks.
There is a big difference in drafts between MLB and NFL. MLB Drafts don’t show up at the show for about 3 years maybe more. NFL shows up that year. You can’t count this years draft to help out in 24. I would like the Reds to be there in 24 but I don’t see it. To many guys in the lower leagues won’t be ready and if they were you can’t count on rookies their first year. To many growing pains. I think you’re one year off and 2025 we might get it. If the front office would just come out and ssy that I think we all can get behind it. Just quit spending money on guys past their prime that aren’t going to get you much in a trade. Play the youngsters. Shrock, Lopez and even Freidl probably won’t be starters on the next great team but they might be useful bench pieces though. Play them and find out.
Oh, cool. The Reds are doing that thing where they don’t win anymore.
Lose 5 in a row so let’s continue to roll out the exact same lineup. Sure, why not.
It’s sad how apathy has not only set in but any optimism going forward is non-existent too. Good times.
Groundhog Day………hit the snooze button
Extend Mahle. Fire the pitching coaches and advanced scouts. 7 of the 12 Dodger hits off him were singles–clearly they had a blueprint for how he would be attacking them yet the coaches never deviated. We see this time and time again.
Every day since May the Reds aren’t actively trying to trade veterans and play their young controllable pieces prolongs the rebuild that much longer.
This situation with Bell is all to familiar. The way he manages and talks you can tell he feels no pressure and is confident he will not be fired no matter what happens. Their is no accountability on this team and Bell knows that for himself and that is the way he manages. Why on earth would he let Moose hit in the 9th off a lefty unless he knew nobody would question such a horrible move.
A week ago someone said trade Greene. I don’t want to do that, but it did make me wonder what we could get for Greene?
23’s Rotation. Lodolo, Ashcraft, Dunn, Overton, Williamson, Abbott, Phillips, Boyle
There’s a lot of upside, with those guys, but you’d be lacking what every team wants, a true Ace, and Hunter Greene could actually be one. We haven’t had one since Cueto, at least in my eyes.
Let’s face it, if Hunter Greene lives up to the hype he is going to be a Dodger in a few years anyway. The only way he remains a Red is if fails.
Will the Reds win the World Series in the next four years? If the answer is “unlikely” what good is it having Hunter Greene? Also, he has already had TJ surgery once.
To be clear, I am advocating trading Hunter Greene, but I don’t think you should take it entirely off the table either.
I was remembering (or at least think I do) a year where the Chicago Bears were beyond terrible. At a press conference, Mike Ditka, in a state of complete frustration, stated something along the lines of “I’m not sure this team can win another game this season”.
Right, wrong, or indifferent … you can’t deny Ditka had passion (and lots of it). Maybe I’m just too old school for my own good, but I just don’t see that from DTBell or even from the FO. And I believe I’m seeing that lack of passion transfer to the players. It’s jut tough to watch games like last night’s and see the same stuff play out over and over. Yes, it was the Dodger, but have we really seen anything different against the “lesser” teams?
Off my soapbox. You know I’ll tune in again tonight. But I’m still frustrated. I’m down to thinking playing .500 from here on out is an express one-way trip to Fantasy Island.
Yeah, where are all the folks praising Bell for ‘keeping the team together’ after a 3-22 start that was partially his creation? How much worse could it get in terms of poor play and attendance? Like, what exactly are you keeping together and why is it worth saving? That whole mindset of giving credit FOR SIMPLY SHOWING UP TO WORK in a nutshell was verbalized last night during the broadcast when Sadak and Larkin were talking up Farmer’s intangibles, how he’s a ‘glue guy’. Farmer then proceeded to ground into a double play. Lol.
I guess my point is that there’s zero evidence you need veteran players to ‘keep the clubhouse together’ when losing is going to happen regardless. Apparently, losing with dignity matters to ownership more than making headway toward sorting the roster and developing talent. All we ever hear is what a good clubhouse the Reds have. Well, if this is the result, why not try a roster of all young players or a roster of jerks and hotheads? You’re gonna win 65 games no matter what, at least derive some value in the process.
I’d say losing Tony Perez in late 1976 is “evidence” he was the glue that kept the oversized egos of Bench Morgan and Rose in check. Once he was gone, the BRM era ended
No, SOQ, the 1977 Reds’ pitching was putrid. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1977.shtml.
Seaver started 20 games and was excellent, and Fred Norman was plausible for 34 starts, but they pretty much started duds for the other 108 games. The Dodgers, by contrast, had 5 guys with 31 or more starts, and gave up 145 fewer earned runs than the Reds.
Plus, that was the year that the Dodgers had 4 guys (Reggie Smith, Ron Cey, Steve Garvey and Dusty Baker) hit 30 or more HRs. Smith (a vastly underrated hitter) led the league with a 168 OPS+.
Not that trading Perez was a great idea, but the Dodgers were just better that year.
I’m right here, Sultan. The Reds are bad, no doubt. When ownership decides to invest more in acquiring enough competitive players, they’ll be competitive. Full stop. Since former players, besides Larkin, mention the importance of “glue guys, ” I’ll assume that those guys are important.
Valid point Big Ed, but then, how about the addition of Scott Rolen to the squad in 2009. That team was flush with young talent, but seemed to be lacking direction. Scott Rolen changed the culture of that team and led them to the playoffs in 2010. I just believe that without some “on field” veteran leadership, the young guys are playing rudderless. These days, leadership doesn’t come from the manager (baby sitters), it comes from guys who can show the young guys how to play the game the right way.
See the scene in “Bull Durham” where the manager finally calls them all “a bunch of lollygaggers” … that’s probably as close to elevated as we’ll see in our clubhouse.
This season is the culmination of organizational failure on many levels, going back 10 years, and decades in one particular area.
I went back over the past 10 years of drafts. The Reds have been poor at drafting and developing hitters. The Reds got Jesse Winker in the 2012 draft, and then appear in 2018 (the Jonathan India year) to have begun to draft much better.
That left the 5-year gap of 2013-2017, where the only drafted hitter who became more than replacement level is Tyler Stephenson in 2015. (Nick Senzel (2016) has a career -1.5 bWAR, and we have learned only recently that “niksenzel” is German for “weak groundball.”)
They have done better of late, drafting Jonathan India in 2018 and developing a number of promising MiLB players, such as Rece Hinds, Jay Allen, Michael Siani (22 and playing well at AA), Tyler Callihan and Matt McLain.
A similar organizational flop, going on now for close to 6 decades, is the complete inability to develop hitters from Latin America. The last truly outstanding Latin hitter that the Reds developed was Tony Perez in the early 1960s. (Edwin Encarnacion mostly blossomed after being traded to the AL; Dave Concepcion had a 88 career OPS+.) This is impossibly inept.
They appear to be getting over the Latin hump, with Elly De La Cruz on the brink of becoming an elite prospect, and three nice 18-year-old hitters — Carlos Jorge, Ariel Almonte and Leonardo Balcazar — excelling in Arizona. But if a small-market team isn’t regularly developing good hitters from Latin America, then it has absolutely no chance of long-term success.
And yes, they stink at putting together bullpens, and Phil Castellini is a terrible face for the franchise. The franchise’s problems go years and years deep.
Niksenzel is German for weak groundball hahahaha. That is great Old Big Ed. +10000
In retrospect it seems unfathomable that the Reds gave up both Yonder Alonso and Yasmini Grandal (plus Brad Boxberger and Edinson Volquez) for Mat Latos.
The easy answer is that Alonso and Grandal were both blocked (by Votto and Devin Mesoraco). However, the 16 game limited look Alonso got in LF amounts to a bum’s rush for a #6 overall draft choice (2008). And Mesoraco was still 2 seasons removed from his breakout season at the time of the trade, and there clearly were doubts about him at the time both as a receiver and hitter.
Regardless there are 2 first round draft choice position players, both with Latino heritage, who went on to solid MLB careers after being basically cast to the winds by the Reds.
Let’s just divide the league into those who spend less than 100 million on payroll and those who spend more. Ultimately those under belong in AAAA and would at least be competitive against one another.
The Reds are so far behind the elite teams that they can never catch up given their payroll limitations. Major league baseball is broken.
Meanwhile the Reds international signings and top draft picks struggle. They are playing primarily with struggling high drat picks and players who were dropped by other teams.
I’ve spent hours studying why the Reds are so bad this year. I think I’ve figured it out. After the first few games of the season something drastic happened. Every time they hit the field they were playing a team with a better record than them. It was and is very unfair when every game you play, you’re playing a better team than you are. I just wonder who’s fault this is?
the difference is that other teams expect and want to win….for example, the cardinals (i know they have more money to spend and actually want to spend) but they actually fired a manager, last season, that won 17 games in a row and took their team to the playoffs….and their current manager, actually pulled a guy during a game for not hustling. Meanwhile, the reds have a manager who constantly heaps praise on subpar performances and do you think he would ever pull a guy for lack of hustle?
The Reds have no excuse for not competing in their division. The one divisional ownership which could spend with the top echelon, the Cubs, chooses (for now at least) not to. Cincinnati has a larger core market than the Brewers. When matters come to the Cardinals, the Reds wrote the book on being a regional team back in the 1970s- through the end of the 20th century.
Does MLB have issues with how the money works (and doesn’t), yes. However, those issues have nothing to do with why the Reds can’t compete in their division.
I don’t know Jim I went to the game Friday night against the brewers. Interesting scoreboard stumper. Who are the 5 active players in MLB with more than 150 home runs and steals? And I thought to myself only 5? In the 70s 80s and 90s there would not be enough room on the screen to show all the players.
What is reds ownership to do. Who are they going to get to come here? There just aren’t a lot of talented position players out there right now and the ones that are likely want to play for the big market teams. The only way we can get top tier free agents is to design those goofy opt out deals which is very frustrating for owners and fans alike. Ownership has made some bad choices I agree but the fact that the reds are this bad reflect the state of mlb more than ownership
I get it trust me, but two years ago Reds made the playoffs and last year with a bad bullpen they were in the the race till mid September and Cardinals unreal winning streak. What amazes me is they went from that to this in quick fashion.
I do think Winker and Suarez and Barnhart would be helping this team this season. Not to mention Gray and Miley. Yes hindsight is 20/20
I still think 2024 is the year the Reds have a winning season and maybe the playoffs. If they stay healthy you have 3 stud pitchers plus you will have a few others from minors coming up. Not to mention McClain, Hinds, Hendricks, Sani, Cruz, Burrero, and Nelson as your catcher. I still say keep Okey as well as he is a good defender and makes up for the Barnhart loss. You know the gold glove catcher the Reds traded. (not bitter at all lol) India and Stephenson will be all star caliber and Senzel well who know’s.
Still begs the question and that is bullpen. I don’t think Bell is the answer going forward as we have all seen. He doesn’t believe in a closer and set up man. I know Reds haven’t had that luxury this year. If Bengals can come out of no where to go to super bowl then Reds can compete come 2024
Reds will never compete unless they develop a plan and stick to it.I read what Krall said he wanted to do but unless you let the young talent play it doesn’t work.What a great opportunity to do it this year and next.Sorting does require getting hitters to the plate and on the mound enough times to make a decision on them.Its not happening and when I see a lineup last night of our hitters 3-6 all above 31 years old,some say 27 or 28 is old and it may be,and see younger guys in the dugout getting splinters or playing in the minors that could use those at bats its just siily.
+1000 good thing they got 34 YO Solano back and in the lineup tonight
I think Solano has got to be better than Moose or Senzel, it’s to bad he has been hurt all year. I have totally given up on Senzel, I think the injuries have a taken a toll on him. As for Moose, most likely the worse signing in team history.
Lies you tell yourself:
1. David Bell will be fired after the season. The Reds don’t want to pay him not to manage for a year and a half. But after the season they will let him go and do an intensive search for his replacement.
2. Nick Krall will be fired after the season. The Reds plan to hire someone with a reputation of turning around an organization. In the meantime, Krall will not be permitted to trade Castillo or Mahle.
3. The Reds will extend Castillo and Mahle and be active in free agency. The will acquire two middle of the line up bats and an established closer. .
Now this is what I call “Fantasy Baseball”
+5,000