The Reds bullpen gave up four runs in the bottom of the 8th inning after tying the game up in the top half as the relief crew continues to struggle for Cincinnati. Luis Castillo and Zac Gallen dueled it out for 7.0 innings but it came down to the bullpens and the Arizona Diamondbacks gave up half as many runs in the final two innings to avoid being swept.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Cincinnati Reds (23-40) | 4 | 5 | 1 |
| Arizona Diamondbacks (30-35) |
7 | 8 | 2 |
| W: Ramirez (2-1) L: Warren (2-3) | |||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
The Offense
Cincinnati got on the board in the second inning after Nick Senzel was hit by a pitch, moved to third on a single by Albert Almora Jr. and then scored when Zac Gallen threw a pick off attempt away. Jonathan India would double in a run later in the inning to put the Reds up 2-0. The offense was quiet until the 8th inning when Brandon Drury tied the game up at 3-3 with a solo home run.
After the bullpen got beat around in the 8th inning, Cincinnati needed to get to work to try and make a comeback. Joey Votto led off the inning with a single and he moved up to second on a wild pitch. Mike Moustakas followed up with an RBI single to make it a 7-4 game. But the Reds wouldn’t score again after that as they failed to complete the 3-game sweep out in Arizona.
The Pitching
Luis Castillo had to work around an error in the 1st inning but he was able to get out of the frame unscathed. That wasn’t the case in the following inning when he gave up two doubles and a 2-run home run to give away the 2-0 lead the team handed him in the top half of the inning. Castillo would buckle down from there and give up just one more hit over the next five innings.
After the offense tied things up at 3-3 in the top of the 8th, David Bell turned things over to the bullpen and that’s when things went south. Warren gave up three singles while recording just one out to give up the lead. Following a double steal Warren induced a ground ball to Jonathan India, who came up firing to the plate, but everyone was safe and it was a 5-3 ballgame when Warren exited the game for Reiver Sanmartin. The lefty retired Alek Thomas to begin his outing but then gave up an RBI single and balked in another run before the inning was over and the Reds were trailing 7-3. It was more than enough for Arizona who held on for a 7-4 win.
Key Moment of the Game
Everything that happened in the bottom of the 8th inning.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Milwaukee Brewers vs Cincinnati Reds
Friday June 17th, 6:40pm ET
TBA vs Hunter Greene (3-7, 5.10 ERA)
Detwiler hasn’t pitched in about a week. We’ve had many different situations for him to pitch. I’m wondering what type of situation does Bell believe he should be used in? Right now, 8th and 9th inning appearances have to go to the quartet of Detwiler, Hoffman, Kuhnel and Diaz. With a day off tomorrow, only Cessa and Diaz should have been kept out of the game tonight. Drury HR took the L away from Castillo and with Detwiler, Hoffman and Kuhnel available, they should’ve been pitching those last 2 innings.
I’m 100% in agreement that those should be our late inning relievers. But Bell is on another planet believing in the likes of Warren, Strickland and Sanmartin. Warren needs to be sent to the minors immediately just to stop Bell from pitching him every day!
With the last 10 days he has had, I have to believe Bell was told that several of his guys weren’t available today (fatigue, soreness). Warren has had a terrible 10 days. I agree its time to send him to AAA to work things out. Bring Solomon back.
I thought Detweiler pitched in back to back games in the previous series.
He last pitched 2/3 of an inning on June 9th.
@Maloney63, you’ve got BBRef and Fangraphs both in your corner on this too. 😉
It was a “Meatloaf” kind of a series out there.
Back at it Friday with the reeling Bernies.
Coming to Cincinnati is just what the Brewers need to get back on track.
But of course it is …
It’s been a while since Yelich has had a cycle right?
Yelich? Not since May 11th. He’s due.
Not sure why Warren gets such a long leash. He hasn’t impressed me. Have to think he’s on borrowed time.
On a positive note: nice to have India back. He definitely provides some spark on offense.
Warren must go! He has to have some sort of “leverage” against Bell. I am not going to say what in order to not offend the innocent participants to this blog! 🙂
I was at Mahle’s first winless gem with my son on a Sunday afternoon (Giants I think) and that was squarely on Warren too. He doesn’t seem to get the (bad) credit he deserves compared to the focus on mistakes made by Santillian or Hoffman. It’s weird.
Bell seems to think if he keeps calling on Warren, the Warren of last year will show up. Relief pitchers are an odd group. What they did last year never seems to carry over to the following year unless you are top tier. Reds don’t have a top tier. Front office needs to spend money on good quality relief pitchers.
I didn’t see the game, but Doug’s recap suggested that Warren had induced a grounder to India that, played cleanly, might have changed things. Is that incorrect? Did Warren induce a bad grounder? Just wondering.
He did induce a grounder to India but there was no way to get the guy at the plate. Marte wasn’t held close to the bag by Drury. They had Drury playing way off the bag. Marte was way down the line when the ball was hit and had only 60 feet to run. Bad defensive alignment caused that run.
To my eye, it was a tossup whether they would have gotten the guy with a clean play strong throw by India.
The ball was not hard hit. India was not more than 10′-15′ off the 2B side of the mound back when he got to the ball. It would have been a tag and not a force out.
My gut feeling as the play started to develop was that they were really going to have to hurry to get him.
Bell does pretty much what all managers do based on pitch count as far as who is available or not.Beyond that I don’t know but at some point a pitcher that should not pitch in high leverage situations will pitch and well it happens.What I saw last night and again today was two starters being extended so to showcase their talents to contending teams.One or both will be traded.The pen is bad as a group and make no mistake Bell will use everybody regardless and it’s a coin flip to see if they get it done or not.Last night was ugly pretty much for all except Kuhnel but he threw the game winning homer on Saturday.I like Diaz,Tony and Hoffman because their stuff is better and the last 2 have more then 2 pitches.
Nice summation, Roger.
Its tough to win an MLB game with 5 hits in a park that is considered a hitters park. Lot of o’fers in that box score. However, Zac Gallen is having a great year so far. Had to get to the bullpen and we did but ours didn’t hold up their end. Still, would have been nice to have put up a bigger # in that 2nd inning.
Winning games late is a process given how inexperienced our bullpen and many members of the team is. Players have to learn to focus more in 8th and 9th inning. Those are the $money innings.
I thought Detweiler pitched in back to back games in the previous series.
OK, we’re not going to fix the pen with the guys we have in the mix. Lively is looking good in AAA as a starter, maybe even better as a reliever? Maybe Dunn, he should be starting his rehab assignment very soon. He could probably be ready sooner if he’s not being stretched out as a starter.
absolutely – I agree with bringing Lively up. I would even go so far as to bring back Buck Farmer. Would have to DFA or 60 day DL someone but that shouldn’t be hard on a last place team.
Why Farmer….he is getting creamed at AAA
He has been better in June. Plus he takes the ball when he is asked to. However, I am also intrigued by Kyle Dowdy – he has MLB experience (not good, but) and his peripherals are pretty good in Louisville. 60 day DL someone and get him up here!
Just Bell being Bell. He would never survive managing a real major league team. He seems to get a pass in Cincy. When you watch this team day to day it’s very frustrating. If he wanted to win why go to a pitcher who has been terrible in a game that we could win. I don’t see things getting any better for at least two more years. I can’t even listen to him on pre or post game. He’s clearly clueless. Cincinnati ownership doesn’t really seem to care, as we all watch him make poor decision daily. Makes it hard to watch when you see this happen so often. Don’t even start me on ownership. Pitiful!!!!
Bell isn’t on the mound. 1 relief inning by 2 pitchers – 4 earned runs.
Bell isn’t in the batters box. 5 hits in 9 innings against one of the worst teams in baseball (albeit a starter having a good year thus far).
I know Bell has his flaws but he’s been dealt a pretty bad hand this year. We did win this series by the way.
And probably like any other manager, were he given a roster of excellent players, the team would win. But like any other manager, his team can’t win consistently when the roster is weaker than most opponents’.
What we saw today is just more of the same dumpster diving from a GM whose hands are tied by tightwad ownership. When you shop at the dollar store this is what you get–a handful of decent outings the fool management into thinking these players can sustain their performance for an entire season.
Anyone remember this parade of shutdown relievers from last year? Perez, Romano, hembree, goudeau, brach, bedrosian, Doolittle, alaniz, DeLeon, feliz, Fulmer,Garrett, Osich.
Perez is the only one doing well on another team.
Looks like it’s a titanic effort nowdays to build a reliable bullpen. From all relievers currently injured, only Sims and Duarte are supposed to return soon, as Antone and Wilson will do so until next year. Time to start looking at the market for help.
Reds home ops .798. Road ops .596. Joey’s home ops .907. On the road he’s hitting .174 with a .550 ops. Sit him occasionally! Other teams don’t play old guys every single day. Pro sports is a young mans game….even baseball!
They have 21 HRs on the road in 34 games. India should help. Barrero went 2-6 with another HR at Lville. In the meantime start runners….try to be aggressive and stay out of double plays. Idk? Same issues every year with the pen and scoring on the road. Of course they can get into slugfests at Gabp. That proves nothing except free agent pitchers will avoid us unless the money is over the top.
Good stuff here. Hopefully, Barrero is getting into high gear. At this point, I’d just let him keep cooking at AAA until the All Star break then bring up and tell him he is the SS until he proves he isn’t. Farmer? If he is not traded, he becomes the DH or 1B vs LH pitching/ super sub or fills the spot of somebody that is traded.
I 100% agree, but that would be forward thinking and I am not sure the FO thinks that way. We have seen Barrero in CF and 2B and maybe somewhere else, I cannot remember, but not at SS. DB considers Farmer a grinder, he sees himself that way, and he will go down with him, regardless of Barrero. He only plays young guys because he has nothing else.
In a baseball age where getting 7 innings out of your starting pitcher is extremely rare it must be more then frustrating as a manager when your bull pen gives up lead off walks, hits or balls in runs quite often. Our best bull pen piece Diaz very often makes things interesting by walking lead off hitters. While sitting watching the game and trying to manage along with Bell I feel his pain. Who do you turn to????
I know you let question is rhetorical Jim but the appearances are piling up too fast for several members of the current bullpen. We aren’t going to have a bullpen in august at this rate.
Diaz and warren are being over used. Bell is going to have to use kuhnel, detwiler and Hoffman more. We’re also going to have to bring up a couple guys from minors or claim some designated relievers to get thru the summer. We have first claiming rights so surely someone decent will become available that can at least pitch the 6th inning for us.
Would be nice if Simms, Dunn and Duarte showed up sometime this year. And our pitchers need to be asked to get thru the 7th inning. It’s mid June, time to be able to throw 110 pitches.
The main thing he could have done from the start is when a reliever comes into the game and has a great inning, let him pitch another inning. So many games, he has used 4 RP’s when he could have used 2. Now they’ve all been in so many games, when they could have been in about 25% less. Wear and tear keeps adding up, to where they all are now…nobody is fresh.
Two ways to look at that. Two innings nearly guarantees the guy won’t be available the following day. If the following day turns out to be a game where the pen has to cover 4–5 innings (as many do) the fewer available pitchers will have an even heavier load. There’s also the matter of how few of them are likely to be effective, which favors saving the one’s who are for availability in more games. A good pen would make all of this less a matter for concern.
Instead of aiming all young pitchers to be possible starters, how about the pitching department aiming a few, who are qualified, to be possible future members of the bullpen or closers down the road.
Like Tony Santillan? San Martin?
Bell on Warren: “He’s working through some things. He’s done a nice job for us on many occasions over the last year or so. We’re trying to get him back on track.”
This is an example of the lack of accountability that is pervasive on the Reds and another example of why I think Bell is a lousy manager. We’ve heard this refrain so many times on so many players over the last 3+ years.
Well here’s the conundrum. Warren, et,al, has the ability to get out hitters. We’ve seen it before. Last year was a good year for him. He’s got plenty good stuff to get ML hitters out. His confidence was riding high.
This year has been a struggle. Has he lost it???? Is he worth being shown confidence in and given chances in higher leverage situations? So a bad stretch and we need to toss him aside and look somewhere else after proving himself multiple times last year? He’s lost his confidence, which is HUGE in pro sports. The only way to get confidence is being placed in higher leverage situations and succeeding. How do you get opportunity if never given the chance again. It is a catch 22. Remember, this year we are going nowhere as far as the playoffs are concerned. Why not give chances to players who have proved it before in limited chances to see if they can do it again. If he succeeds or breaks out of it, you have a piece next year, thus one less worry. If he doesn’t you move on.
I will say this, being shown confidence from your manager in high pressure situations means a lot to a ball player and a boost in the confidence arena. I mean, these are professional ballplayers. They want to succeed and they want to be given a chance to show they can succeed. Usually a small tweak or adjustment brings them back but that is what growing pains are about.
Don’t sell a kid down the river unless you are 100% sure they have completely lost itl. Do we want to win every game? YES. Do we always want to see the best players play when they are on top of their game? YES. Is that realistic? NO. But sometimes you have to put them through the fire and give them chances even if the average fan doesn’t think so.
For one, I am willing to have some of our players been given opportunities to learn and grow. They are not always going to succeed but those chances may pay off in the long run. Otherwise we have to start all over again and find another player and start the process of roster building all over again. Give the kids a chance.
What you said, Randy. +1000. As an aside, my two favorite words when I’m in a sarcastic mood are “accountability” and “closure.”
LOL…bingo..” he’s a big part of our team”…smh
Randy, don’t disagree with you conceptually. Confidence is a big part of any high pressure career. Sometimes you take the person out of high pressure situations and let them get their performance straightened. Maybe he needs to spend time in Louisville and rebuild that confidence. I sincerely believe a new manager would be getting better results. We listened to the same line all last year on Suarez, Doolittle, et. al. as the losses piled up. Same story this year. I’d argue that Bell didn’t even try to win last night’s game, a pattern we’ve seen for years.
“I’d argue that Bell didn’t even try to win last night’s game, a pattern we’ve seen for years.”
There are times I wonder if you’re just trying to troll with comments like this. I assume you can’t really mean this, but maybe you do.
My observation is Bell knows he has a long rope, probably the longest in MLB. He is bulletproof in the FO and with the owners. Bell knows this and he manages accordingly. Winning is not job 1, obviously, for this organization.
Some people on this board love the guy—no matter what he does or says.
A few think he is a clown. My opinion is he is 100% a company man who will say and do anything he is asked to do, no matter how ridiculous to my eyes and ears.
But he is not a winner and won’t be given a serious winning situation any where else.
I’m happy for those who are his fans, at least this season doesn’t suck so bad for you folks.
I don’t know that I’d call myself a fan. I just don’t think he’s an imbecile who’s beyond lucky when the Reds wins and completely at fault when the Reds lose.
wkuchad, not trolling. I managed for decades in high pressure, results oriented environments where results mattered. Results don’t matter in Reds’ land, from the owners to the field. People try to say that managing professional sports is different than other fields. I disagree. The requisite knowledge is different, perhaps. But the people management and team management aspects are not. Contrary to what many here claim, a manager that continually plays favorites and makes inexplicable decisions is not well respected by the team. However, as a protected guy, they aren’t going to acknowledge that fact publicly. So no, I’m not trolling. I despise lousy management and mediocrity. And I’ve fired more than one manager in my career.
Off course results matter, but the players are often over-matched. Lost in this is that a ball game is a direct competition and the players on the other team are MLB players trying to win, too. Sometimes they simply succeed; they hit the pitch, they steal the home run. If you’re arguing, as you appear to be, that these things wouldn’t happen if the Reds were better, you should find a shady, tranquil spot and ponder the nature of baseball, and why your argument depends upon ignoring logic and historical precedent. The precedent that shows how utterly dependent a team’s success is on the quality of the players, regardless of who is managing.
Wednesday was the Reds 16th consecutive game without an off day and 29th game in 30 days. And to top it all, It was a matinee start on the heels of a 12 inning game the night prior. The bullpen (and other lineup choices too) were in all likelihood driven by who was available to play at the end of this grinding stint.
While I understand the short term tactical decisions forced by the situation yesterday, I do not give Reds management a pass on their philosophy or strategic decisions driven by the philosophy.
The expectation seems to be that they want a group of essentially young unproven relievers to come in and pitch like polished veterans. Predictably, the guys cannot do this on a consistent basis.
Recall the old saying about learning to crawl before walking and to walk before running? Take a step back and get these guys throwing well located fastballs for strikes before turning their killer sliders or other breaking pitches loose on the world.
Jim, it looks to me as though they are using this season as a sorting/proving opportunity. Separate the wheat from the chaff. I don’t know whether that’s a good idea–as opposed to having them polish their craft in AAA–but suppose it might work for some of them. Still, it is a departure from the Reds’ usual procedure, and I suppose it’s further fallout from the decision to go cheap.
I do not disagree.
I think they are off on a tangent of looking for guys with a killer put away pitch and forgetting he is not going to consistently get into enough put away situations undamaged until he can spot a quality fastball for a strike. Who knows how much “wheat” is going to be thrown out with the chaff following this process?
Makes sense.
I have questioned Bell many times but again he can justify every move he makes after the fact just like all of us could do.He scripts most of his lineup and his pen usage as most managers do but he would win in LA and Roberts would lose in Cincy.Its all about the roster.The Reds trade 3 starting position players and 2 starting pitchers and we started 3-22 with lots of injuries to a poor roster to begin with.The pen was a bunch of new guys or old guys and nobody would say any of them outside of Sims was dependable.Nobody expected then or now that this team is going to do more then compete for last in their own division against the Bucs and Cubs who are just awful as well.Younger players have stepped up and the older players are in decline with production and in health.Until the Reds go young and trade away or cut the older players we will not see much improvement in record.The Reds have 2 good starters in Castillo and Mahle that are hampered by pitching in GABP that would be studs on the right team pitching in a bigger park.GABP blows up starters stats as well as position players stats.Reds must get a haul for one or more of the 2 starters.Reds will not resign either to the money they can get some where else.It just has to happen along with playing everybody under 30 and sorting through young guys in the pen.Finally on Bell,I don’t like his tendency to play his whole roster and yesterday when we had a chance to sweep he sets Farmer and Pham with an off day today.Now again he can justify everything he does but his feel for the game as it is unfolding bother me as does his scripting.Players love him,Bob loves him but the Reds continue to have a losing culture with no change in sight.LDS said it best their is absolutely no accountability for losing.
Roberts may not win the WS with the Reds roster. He didn’t last year either. But he would win more than the Reds are currently. Bell manages the team as if he was a dad taking on coaching a Little League team. As for the 3-22? That was an organization problem not a roster problem. When the roster performs near their career averages, then I’ll give them a pass. Right now, a large number of them aren’t and that goes to management/system and it needs to be addressed. Otherwise, I doubt the Reds and Dodgers could swap rosters and the Reds win their division.
Who isn’t? Reynolds? Almora? Farmer? This is a specious argument, anyway. Votto is not performing to his career avg. Votto is 38 years old and nearing the end. Career averages reflect what players did earlier in their careers. My 20 year-old car had better compression and didn’t need repairs as frequently 15 years ago. Pham, for example, had fallen off before he got here. You don’t like Bell. I wish you’d take the job.
@GMR
Time to get a new Car!
You can take a road trip to GABP. I hear there’s plenty of good seats available.
Old-school: I’m an old guy. The car seems appropriate. Besides, it’s not likely to get stolen.
In the next 29 games, the Reds play 24 games against the Dodgers,Giants,Cardinals,Brewers, Mets,Braves,Yankees and Tampa. It’s about to get real bad.
On a sad note, our beloved 1st baseman is now a below .300 career Batter. He now sits at .299. Votto hasn’t hit .300 since 2017 and he never will again. His OBP is high this year but the end is near. I loved watching Willie Mays play in my younger days but it was so hard to watch him in the end. Same thing for Henry Aaron. I just hope he steps away before father time takes it all away.
+1000
Yeah, I think he should have retired sooner and held on to that .300 average. Better case for the HOF than less than .300. Recency bias could seriously hurt his chances.
Odd situation with arbitration cases still pending.
Winker apparently hadnt settled for 2022 after an incredible 2021 season, but he’s having a bad 2022 season.
Long story short, Mariners settled on this year and next year so 2 years $14 million.
The backload on Winker’s contract is $8.25m in 2023 which would seem to make him very flippable should the Mariners, who have often been big dealers, be so inclined.
Have a feeling Moran DFA and Schrock activated before the game tomorrow. The other possible moves would be Sims, Gutierrez or Aquino to the 60 day IL. Then, Schrock joins 26 man roster with Friedl to Louisville. He’s been getting innings in Louisville in the OF, so I think he platoons with the OFs in LF and RF and DH with Moose and Reynolds will get the majority of replacement innings in the IF.
I agree with Richard that Pham ought to be on a short rope. I think the Reds ought to trade Pham, move Drury to left, platoon Farmer at third with Moose, and play Barrero at short.
Or maybe keep Drury at third play Farmer in left in a platoon with Naquin. Farmer kills lefties to the tune of a 1.220 OPS, and is Billy Hamiltonesque against righties, at .612.
Hader on paternity leave….so that’s one silver bullet the boys won’t be facing.
Moose hitting .188 vs LHP this year and in the lineup at DH? Reynolds hitting .344 vs LHP this year. Just don’t understand the decisions by Bell.
Schrock activated, Santillan to the 15 day IL and Sims to the 60 day IL to clear spot for Schrock.