On Wednesday afternoon the Cincinnati Reds traded left-handed reliever Amir Garrett to the Kansas City Royals in exchange for left-handed starter Mike Minor and $500,000 in cash.

It was a tough season for both left-handers in 2021. Amir Garrett was coming off of the 2019 and 2020 seasons where he pitched in 90 games out of the Reds bullpen and posted a 3.03 ERA that spanned 74.1 innings and included 104 strikeouts and just 11 home runs allowed. But in 2021 things went backwards for the big lefty as his control waned, walking 29 batters in 47.2 innings and saw his home run rate skyrocket as he gave up nine of them. The end result was his ERA jumping up to 6.04 on the season for Cincinnati.

For Mike Minor it’s been a tough past two seasons. The left-handed starting pitcher was quite good from 2017-2019, making 60 starts (all in 2018 and 2019) and 65 relief appearances (all in 2017). In that span he threw 443.0 innings with 420 strikeouts, a 3.62 ERA, a 136 ERA+, and a WHIP of 1.16. But the now 34-year-old struggled big time in both 2020 and 2021. He split his time in Texas and Oakland in 2020, making 11 starts and one relief appearance. His ERA jumped up to 5.56 in his 56.1 innings with 20 walks, 11 homers allowed, and 62 strikeouts. In 2021 he made 28 starts with Kansas City and threw 158.2 innings with a 5.05 ERA while giving up 26 home runs, 41 walks, and he struck out 149 batters.

From the Reds side of things they are picking up Mike Minor on a 1-year deal worth $10M, but the Royals are covering $500,000 of that. He is also due $13M in 2023 or there’s a mutual option with a $1M buyout.

Mike Minor makes just about as much money as Wade Miley or Sonny Gray was making. And he’s been a much worse pitcher than either of them over the last few seasons. The moves were all separate, but when looked at together it certainly leaves one scratching their head trying to figure out exactly what happened here. Even from a financial standpoint the savings of moving Garrett’s contract – he’s in arbitration – it doesn’t make much sense. The savings is merely a couple million and you are swapping out Miley or Gray for someone who is in their mid-30’s and has performed significantly worse than either of those two pitchers.

126 Responses

  1. Bet on Red

    This does not make any sense… is the idea to use him as a Number 5 starter, then jettison him when one of the minor leaguers proves that they are ready? I know that the Lockout probably put a hamper on long-term planning, but we could have done the same thing with Miley.

    • TheCoastMan

      A continuation of the lunacy called “The Castellini and Krall Comedy Hour.”

      This team is beyond clueless. Now we take on a 10 mil, 5 plus ERA 30 something rather than just keep Miley or Gray. And, on top of that block one of our young starters from getting some experience in this very obvious full blown rebuild.

      You don’t have to look very far to see that we are the absolute laughing stocks in every corner of the sports world. This is a team with absolutely no direction or plan.

    • Alan Horn

      They picked up Donavan Solano whose stats are not bad and Buck Farmer. Farmer seems to be straight off the scrap heap. I look for more of those type of signings. For an old Reds fan like me , Dick Wagner comes to mind following the Big Red Machine.

  2. Tom Mitsoff

    Yeah, there really isn’t much sense here. When you’re otherwise trading your veterans for prospects, why would you trade for a declining lefthander who costs $8.5M more than the guy you gave up?

  3. Eric the Red

    Are they managing their financials week-to-week? “Last week we couldn’t afford Miley, but since we just got Suárez off the books we can now blow that amount of money on Mike Minor!” I just don’t get it.

    • Votto4life

      They traded Sonny Gray on Sunday. So technically it’s still this week.

  4. LDS

    An odd trade. I think moving Garrett is probably a net positive for the team but financially odd given their push to cut payroll. And as noted above, from a performance perspective relative to Miley & Gray, we’ll call it curious.

    • Alan Horn

      Right on target. This management and front office is clueless. Yet there are some who still think they are some knowledgeable operators. I guess I had rather have Minor than Garrett, but why dump Miley and Gray?

      • Daytonnati

        Will there be enough position players left to field a team? 🙂

      • Alan Horn

        Barely, if we don’t have a bench. No starter is allowed to be injured.

      • west larry

        maybe they are going to wheel Minor back into another trade? otherwise, this makes no sense. The one thing i’ll remember Garrett for is the time he was facing the Pirates and someone yelled out something from the Pirate bench that inflamed Garrett. He didn’t wait for his teammates, he dove into the Pirates dugout with his fists flying. Pretty cool. I wonder what was yelled out from the Pirate dugout ?

  5. SoCalRedsFan

    Makes zero sense! This really sticks in my Krall!

  6. Vada

    Please. Please, turn the Reds into a city owned team ASAP. Let’s end this farce owned by a vegetable pusher who understands absolutely NOTHING about baseball. Maybe Mr. C sees players as vegetables on the commodities board. Can’t blame him since some players on the team play like vegetables at times.

    • Tom Reeves

      Would a board appointed by the “city owners” come to different financial conclusions than the Reds front office? Doubtful. And, the city can’t fix pothole.

      • Still a Red

        As a citizen of Cincinnati, you would be part owner, and able to vote and/or run for the Board that would make those decisions. I’d vote for you, since you’d make better decisions than the current management.

    • Mark Moore

      Do remember that this isn’t how the Green Bay Packers actually work. “Stockholders” are just fans who have a certificate saying they have a “share”. It gives them no rights at all. Decisions are made by a governing group, not the fan base.

  7. redsfan4040

    The moves together don’t make sense.

    All I can come up with is that this is a way to have enough SPs to play service games with Greene/Lodolo (unless they force the issue like India last year). They realized that trading Gray left the rotation too wide open for those two to at least 1 likely make it. AG is coming off a really down year, and Minor is someone who they’ve already written in to start vs the Guardians on April 13th.

    Even after typing it, it doesn’t make sense. If another goal is a flip at the deadline candidate, Miley makes so much more sense, especially coming off of last season.

    All told. I’m confused.

    • Hotto4Votto

      Honestly, if they keep Castillo and Mahle (bad idea unless you extend either) like they just said, then they have enough pitchers who already have ML starts under their belts to make it so they wouldn’t have to rely on Greene or Lodolo. If we assume as we’ve read that it’s Castillo, Mahle, and Gutierrez penciled in there’s still Santillan, Hoffman, SanMartin, and O’Brien who all made starts for the Reds last season to varying results. Also, they signed Ben Lively as a minor league FA. So they have options to make starts if they don’t want to start the clocks. This move makes no sense, there’s no way to justify it in conjunction with all the other moves made this offseason.

  8. Johnny Sofa

    OK, I get it. Shed payroll by trading away your best starting pitcher, an All-Star outfielder, and third baseman, so you can bring in a 34-year-old pitcher with ERAs of 5.56 and 5.05 the past two seasons. Youth movement. Rebuild. Whatever you wanna call it … it all makes perfect sense now.

  9. LDS

    I’ve just seen the report that KC is covering the contract buyout as well. So this is a one year rental to what end?

  10. Clammy

    I’m excited about the potential. If he’s an innings eater, he could lose 20 games for this team!

    • Votto4life

      Clammy I didn’t think of that! I now have a rooting interest. Thank you!

      • DaveCT

        Innings eater AND gatherer of losses, too! Save the young guys the trauma of getting too many L’s!

  11. Johnny Sofa

    You know, maybe the Cardinals only pretended to fire Walt Jocketty a year before he came to the Reds. Someone has been sabotaging this team ever since he arrived.

  12. Bet on Red

    Well there is one explanation. Derek Johnson and Vandy. Minor’s path crossed before, so maybe he thinks he can fix him up. If so…it would be a win for a trade… but if not… its a DFA anyway

  13. Steve

    WTAF are they doing. We could have kept Gray. Absolutely ridiculous move. When I saw this I was thinking the Royals have to be sending over $7-8 million to take this guy. If he was a free agent I wouldn’t sign him for $5 million. Yet the Reds are giving this guy 10.5 million. Worst run franchise in the league.

  14. Votto4life

    Waiting for the Nick Krall apologists to chime in saying how much they love this trade.

  15. MK

    I think I’m pretty much done with them. Personally I’ve met a lot of good kids with the Dragons and Amir is at the top of my list. If he gets traded and it makes sense then OK, but to trade him for a downgrade starter and pay him what you would have paid Miley or Gray is ignorant.

    • Alan Horn

      Better late than never MK. It became obvious to me quite a while back. Our only hope is if he sells the team.

      • Alan Horn

        Hopefully someone who will keep the team in Cincinnati and can afford to run a MLB team. A little baseball sense would be good also along with a will to win. Maximizing profits shouldn’t be the only goal. i

  16. Mark Moore

    I’m baffled. AG was definitely sporadic, but drop Miley for the same money and do this? Well … I suppose we shall see what we shall see. Still seems a bit on the insane side to me.

    • Matt WI

      At least w/ Miley there was a chamnce at a midseason trade to a contending team for the price of Minor. Just baffling.

  17. Old-school

    There may be something wrong health wise with Miley. He got shelled in 3 of his last 4 starts and ended his season in mid-September prematurely. Perhaps the Reds saw some red flags to not bring him back. Minor? Makes no sense. He is tight with DJ and pithed for him at Vanderbilt so obviously DJ thinks he can get him turned around. He did the same thing with Miley in Milwaukee but a net gain of +$7 million in this transaction is bizarre.

    • MuddyCleats

      Agree, but I thought keeping Miley to school Lodolo (everyone) made a lot of sense? Miley was/is a pitcher and on an organization that has a lot of throwers, he could have been very helpful w/ our upcoming youngsters.

      As to his late season decline last season, he was probably just worn out physically and mentally on a team that was going NO where?

  18. SultanofSwaff

    Hard to tell what the front office is thinking, and it might be too soon to judge, but here goes. Maybe they weren’t big believers in Miley’s ability to stay healthy, although the salary dump angle is impossible to ignore. Ignoring that, ridding yourselves of Garrett opens a spot for Lodolo or Williamson (although both should be starting in AAA), both far more talented. I will say this, the instances of players traded away over the last decade plus and having success elsewhere is super rare. So until that changes, I’m inclined to give the baseball ops guys the benefit of the doubt. The payroll is a separate issue beyond their control.

    What scares and excites me at the same time is that this might signal the trade of Castillo and/or Mahle. Minor can take one of those spots, and the return for either would be amazing–high end cost controlled prospects who could fill out this young talented core. There’s no shortage of things to gripe about at the moment, but as soon as next year we could have the most dynamic young team in baseball!

    • Alan Horn

      Nothing excites me about this bunch trading Castillo or Mahle. They will just get taken out behind the shed yet again with minimal return.

      • Daytonnati

        Exactly. Chapman for Rookie Davis.

      • G-Man

        After this latest move, I’ll bet Krall’s phone is ringing off the hook with every other GM in MLB wanting to propose a trade to the Reds! Like sharks circling blood in the water!

    • Johnny Sofa

      The season ticket office wants you to call them, pronto! They have some really good deals.

    • TR

      Sultanof Swaff: I like your last sentence; way to go!

  19. RedsGettingBetter

    Yes, it seems from the logical and planning point of view it was better picking Miley´s option and trade Garrett later for a minor leaguer and you can have a balanced result financially speaking. What was the analisis Krall made ? Is this an improvisation or an incompetence? Both? Well, hopefully Minor could has a good performance working with DJ combo…

  20. Votto4life

    Minor is a fly ball pitcher. He should enjoy pitching at GABP.

    • MuddyCleats

      Let’s be honest, everyone pitching at GABP is a fly ball pitcher. Routine fly ball almost always ends up on the warning track or deeper. Ball Park is Just one more thing with this organization

    • TR

      KC is much more friendly to fly ball pitchers. Garrett should do well there.

  21. Kap

    In a vacuum, the FIP(4.21) in 2021 is encouraging

    I guess they think Minor can provide what Gray and*/or Miley would have provided while getting some prospects. While I don’t agree with this, it’s interesting

    • Johnny Sofa

      I must have missed something. What prospects (plural) did Miley, Gray, and Garrett bring in return? I know about the 18-year-old that isn’t even on MLB’s top 100 list.

      • Kap

        I guess Dunn and Fraley are not prospects, but some people like the Williamson guy. Petty sounds intriguing as well

  22. Mark A Verticchio

    Of all 3 trades this one makes the least sense. Why would a team going on a youth binge, which is fine, trade for a declining 34 year old pitcher at a cash loss. This moves makes me think this team is very very smart or very very dumb. I know what it looks like to me.

  23. Johnny Sofa

    Why all this talk about the Reds’ pitching coach … as if he can turn anyone into Max Scherzer? The staff gave up more walks than any team in mlb last season, ranked 20th in ERA, and the bullpen was … oy. I wanna be an optimist, too, but at some point reality and facts are too obvious to ignore.

    • LDS

      I agree. I was into the DJ hype for a while myself but the results sure don’t seem to be there. I’m probably in the minority but I’ve contended for the last 2 years that the Reds had more talent than the W/L showed. I did then and continue to lay the blame at Bell and the coaching staff. They just don’t have what it takes to coach at the MLB level.

    • Votto4life

      Yes I agree. DJ gets a lot of love but I am not sure it is all warranted. I mean he was responsible for the bullpen last year.

      I know he has to work with what he is given, but not sure why he gets credit for the starters, but no blame for the relievers.

      This seems like his fingerprints are all over this trade. We will soon see just what kind of miracle worker he really is.

      • greenmtred

        Votto: The first sentence of your second paragraph should have been emphasized, and shouldn’t have been followed by “but.”

    • Michael E

      Yeah. I noticed that after he left Milwaukee, the Brewers pitchers still kept pitching over their heads. The didn’t miss a beat. I thought it was a coup to get DJ, but the results haven’t really moved the needle. Apparently we were all duped or DJ is being handcuffed, who knows.

  24. Don

    I guess you could say we picked up a Minor leaguer today.

    On a broader scale, the problem is that I don’t know how the collective fan base can push back owner who is this apathetic. It’s as if we care and Castellini doesn’t, and furthermore he seemingly doesn’t care that we do care. It’s a very frustrating position to find yourself in if you are a passionate fan- to love and to not be loved in return.

  25. Klugo

    Been trying to tell you all… Nick Krall.

  26. Nick in NKY

    Most sensible thing I can think of that explains this (but is absolute rumor-mongering):

    Amir Garrett and Jesse Winker were good friends, if memory serves. AG didn’t like the Winker deal, had something to say about it to the wrong person, so Krall gets called onto the carpet and told “have him gone by COB tomorrow, I don’t care what it costs.”

    Other than that, absolutely puzzling.

    • KetteringRedsFan

      once you eliminate all of the other explanations, this one remains standing. It does make a certain amount of sense. Recall how quickly management removed Chapman because of image. Whatever else is said, it seems that management wants a certain type of personality to put before the mark…er, fans. Whether this correlates with -winning- remains to be evaluated.

      • Bill J

        They have Votto with a good image and how many winning seasons have they had.

    • greenmtred

      The more logical explanation is that they traded Garrett to appease all of us at RLN. We nearly universally hated and defamed him for the past two years. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.

  27. Johnny Sofa

    Let’s remember, Jocketty is still consulting the owner. He’s been overseeing this mess for a long time.

  28. Indyred

    And just like that, they win us all back!! Lmfao. Stupid trade

  29. TJ

    C’mon people. Why would the Reds add salary with a pitcher who gives up home runs? DJ must’ve saw something that he could correct, just like he did with Sonny Gray. I think it’s that simple

  30. RedsFaninPitt

    We can debate what metric is the best, but there really isn’t a lot of difference between Minor and Miley over the past few seasons other than Miley is much more of a groundball pitcher(which is important in GABP). Here is there xFIP over the past four seasons:
    xFIP
    Minor – 4.53(2018); 4.60(2019); 4.50(2020); 4.32(2021)
    Miley – 4.30(2018); 4.52(2019); 4.90(2020); 4.07(2021)

    While the Gray trade certainly cut payroll, I think it was much more about the return than the reduction in pay and that is why that deal was completed.

  31. Michael B. Green

    If you want to manipulate salaries and prove the bad faith position that the oligarchs (I mean the owners) had with the players, this makes perfect sense. Add an SP that can take the #1 or #2 spot in the rotation, which in turn, allows you to further tank by trading either Castillo, Mahle or both. We’ll have Minor matched up against deGrom and Scherzer. You know. Commitment to the City for winning and making Redleg Nation proud. More “rebuilding” to follow.

  32. Krozley

    Minor had better stats in the 2nd half of 2021 than both Gray and Miley, although his season was cut short by a September injury and had a few less starts. Maybe Johnson sees something that will help him get back to his 2019 version where he was a Cy Young contender. Trying to find some sort of positive to this head scratcher. Also, we will need to get used to higher ERAs and corresponding stats in the NL in the future since the DH is now a reality for 162 games. For reference, a 4.00 ERA would have been good for 11th best in the AL last year (for those that qualify).

  33. MBS

    I’ve been under the assumption that Miley had an injury that the Reds were not comfortable with. That’s the only thing at the time, and now that makes any sense.

    The other bit that’s harder to make out is the Sonny Gray trade. If we took Krall at his word, that these were baseball decisions, not budget decisions, maybe they valued 6 season of Williamson more than 2 remaining of Gray. It’s a stretch but i have no other conclusions that make sense.

    • Votto4life

      Or they are really, really high on Chase Petty. If that’s the case though, you have to wonder why they didn’t just draft him.

      I mean there are probably things we don’t know that could explain some of these moves. I understand the Reds being cheap, that is easy to understand and par for the course.

      But why turn around and add a 34 old, fly ball pitcher with a era above 5.00 the past couple of years, that makes him your 5th highest paid player?

      It’s just mind boogying. Why not use that $8 million to try and extend Castillo?

      I agree with whoever said this is a precursor to the Reds moving Castillo or Mahle.

      • MBS

        @Votto, right I meant Petty, not Williamson. They got McLain at a much earlier part of the draft 17, Petty went 26th. They did say they were heavily scouting Petty, and hoped they could get him as the comp pick.

        I don’t think this is a precursor to moving Castillo or Mahle, if it was $$$ motivated, that would make no sense. It doesn’t mean that LC or TM are safe, if they are truly trying to rebuild, those 2 could bring in some nice prospects.

        Maybe they look at Minor as a template for both Lodolo and Williamson to follow. All 3 are tall LHP, maybe their pitch mix is similar. Other than that, DJ might think he has something he can fix.

    • greenmtred

      I think that they probably do value 6 seasons of Williamson more. The Reds may well be aiming for 2024, and keeping an older pitcher who may be in decline and dealing with injury wouldn’t look like a good bet.

  34. J

    What makes this deal even weirder is the fact that there are still some good unsigned outfielders and pitchers available. Cut AG if you don’t want him, and you could spend $8 million on a player (or players) better than Minor. This feels like a trade with an ulterior motive.

    • Votto4life

      What free agent, with other options, is going to sign here?

      • J

        One who’s offered $250,000 more than his fair market value.

      • JayTheRed

        That’s why they are doing trades cause no free agent is going to want to come here unless they are trying to revitalize their career hitting wise.

      • J

        The Reds have JUST signed a decent free agent who would certainly have been offered major league contracts with other teams. So, as I was saying… I don’t understand why they’re trading for $10M player when they could likely sign a better one for less.

  35. KYpodman

    Pathetic!!!! Gray owed $10 million this year. Minor owed $10 million this year (though, $500,000 being paid by Royals). Which pitcher would you want on your team????? Trading Gray and trading for Minor makes no sense!!!!!

  36. Optimist

    This is a great trade . . . in 2017.

  37. Vada

    It may be time to change the name of the ballpark to FANTASYLAND

  38. Votto4life

    Whoever said this could be a precursor to a Castillo and/or Mahle trade is probably spot on. Perhaps Castillo packaged with Moose?

    Some have suggested the Reds could have found a better/cheaper starter than Minor in free agency. But I can’t imagine any free agents signing with this team, if they have other options.

    • Don

      Not that I would put a lot of stock in a man who also said that the Reds are not rebuilding, but Krall said earlier this afternoon that “I don’t see us moving any of those two players. (Castillo/Mahle)”

      • Votto4life

        I hadn’t read that. Thanks. That is a relief.

        I don’t think Krall would have explicitly said that if they have the intention to trade them this Spring. They are probably safe until the trading deadline at least.

        Wished they would have used the $8 million they are going to pay Minor to extend Luis.

    • Hotto4Votto

      I’d much rather go with one of the young guys than see Minor out there. Feldman part duex.

  39. Bet on Red

    Reds picking up 2 more players, buck farmer and donavon solano, also announce that they are not trading LC or TM

    • Johnny Sofa

      Buck Farmer and Donovan Solano. Phew! And we were beginning to think the upcoming season wouldn’t go so well.

    • Votto4life

      Glad they are not trading Castillo or Mahle.

  40. west larry

    Krall was just quoted on mlb rumors that the reds have no intention of trading Castillo or Mahle. God, I hope he’s not being deceptive again.

    • DX

      If they don’t extend them now, they should trade them asap to get the most value. Learn from Tampa Bay.

    • Hotto4Votto

      Good lord, it’s going from a bad off-season to a worse one if they don’t flip Castillo and Mahle. Pick a direction and go towards it. Stop half-measures and one foot in one foot out. I was behind the tear down. If they’re only going halfway it may be enough to turn in my fan card.

  41. Johnny Sofa

    Do any moves or non-moves make any difference at this point? It’s like John Candy pointing out that the radio works just fine after the car burned up (Trains, Planes, and Automobiles).

  42. JB

    Rumor is the Reds nixed the deal and the Royals then offered $500,000 cash and Flea Market Bob yelled deal. Bob was last seen walking down the hallway singing “MO MONEY, MO MONEY….

  43. Melvin

    “Leaves one scratching their head” is puttying it very nicely I think.

    • Melvin

      putting* (Correcting my previous post)

      Also I do think there may be some merit to a previous post about Big Bob calling this one to get rid of Garrett. He seems to be an emotional guy while lacking wisdom. As I said yesterday Krall and Bell have their jobs because they will do and say what Big Bob wants them to.

      • Alan Horn

        I have no problem with moving Garrett. I always thought he was a chunker versus a pitcher. I never felt confident when he entered the game. He is one who looks good potentially but doesn’t deliver. Plus, he has rabbit ears which is a very bad trait for a pitcher.

  44. Steve Schoenbaechler

    First, if you consider, overall, yes, this move doesn’t make sense after letting Miley go. But, when you look at a longer timeframe than that, do you really think they were thinking of this move when they let Miley go?

    Second, I can only imagine that the coaches possibly see something in Minor they can “bring out” that they couldn’t bring out in Garrett.

    I had no problem letting Gray go, honestly. He had some injury questions after last season. The only question here, I believe, is the Miley move with this. Unless they are looking for a LOOGY to take Garrett’s place in the pen. That’s still a lot to spend for that.

    • Redsfan4life

      Steve, for whatever reason. You seem bent of defending these moves. Not sure why. You are on a island here.

      • greenmtred

        Steve is countering the predominant narrative here, which presumes that we know all we need to know and have all of the necessary information about the players, to evaluate trades and signings. His island’s population is more than one.

  45. BK

    Looking forward to an explanation…I’m baffled.

    • Old Big Ed

      I don’t really get it, either, but I have to believe that Derek Johnson and Minor talked over the off-season.

      The Royals almost immediately announced the signing of Zack Greinke, who as you will recall came up with the Royals. How that plays is also tough to understand, but it appears that the Royals needed to dump Minor to get Greinke. That would suggest that the Reds hadn’t planned to get Minor, but decided to take him today, when he became available. Having gotten some feedback from Johnson, they pulled the trigger. I suppose, anyway.

      They did save about $2.2 million for Garrett, but on the other hand, they could have DFA’d Garrett last fall if they didn’t want to pay that.

      The whole pitching shuffle is probably a wash in the long run, so I’m not going to get too worked up over it.

  46. DaveCT

    As part of the Krall to the finish, let the pool begin of when we are forced to release Minor and eat his salary. In the bizarro-world of GABP, it’s almost certain. How high would hit ERA have to rise? 6.00? 7.00? 8.00?

  47. RedBB

    Show you how truly incompetent Krall and Castellini are…..let Miley gofer $10m and then take on a vastly inferior Mike Minor for the same amount.

  48. Redgoggles

    But, but, but…..who will be our closer? Will miss Amir the stand-up guy, but certainly not the inconsistent gas can from last year. Wish him well.

  49. DaveCT

    Since the two starting National League All Star corner outfielders have fled or been banished, perhaps we should move the fences in so starting Of Fraley and Schrock can lead the league in HR’s.

  50. Magnum 44

    I’m buying my post season tickets right now!

  51. Hotto4Votto

    Ya know…. I was trying to give ownership and the FO the benefit of the doubt. I haven’t agreed with much they have done recently but was willing to allow them the opportunity to actually pick a direction and go towards it.
    Not anymore. Not after this head-scratcher of a trade. I mean there’s no way to actually fathom how dumb this is. The Reds had a much much better $10m pitcher in Miley and they gave him away. They didn’t need to tender Garrett. They could have not paid Garrett, kept Miley, and never have made this ridiculous trade. It doesn’t help now or the future and adds payroll to a team constantly crying poor.
    I have no way of rationalizing this. Heads all the way up their rear ends. Pathetic. I truly hate what this ownership group has done to the Reds. Please sell the team Bob. Put us out of your misery.

    • Alan Horn

      Pretty much spot on. They have forced us into another rebuild. They weren’t successful the first time, so why do they deserve another chance?

    • greenmtred

      You may well be right, but it will be interesting to see how Miley compares with Minor this coming season. Actual events are more telling and reliable than projections.

  52. Old-school

    There were discussions here in October when Nick Krall said after the season they will spend the next few weeks discussing 2022 budget and then develop a plan. Krall never revealed what the budget was but apparently its under $100 million and his marching orders from ownership were:

    Phase 1- get the budget to $80 million. Cut as much pre lockout( trade Barnhart, expose Miley to waivers) and finish the pre lockout part. Then pick up the post lockout salary purge with Suarez contract release project #1. Say you wont trade young talent or risk comparisons to the Homer bailey fiasco. Instead ,trade an All star 28 year old hitter.

    Phase 2- figure out the holes after the purge and add back sequentially one at a time

    Phase 1 and Phase 2 can be completely incoherent and contradictory. Organizational schizophrenia is allowed and indeed encouraged if it saves ownership profits.

    They cant multi-task or run parallel circuits apparently in Reds FO so its sequential circuits and 1 item at a time…..even if the last order of business in March completely undermines and runs counter to the first item back in October. Nick Krall is running in circles chasing his own tail….because BC told him too.

    Cut the budget from $130 million to $80 million and once thats accomplished….start plan B to get the budget back to whatever the number was determined to be in OCtober…which looks like $95-$100million. If anyone has an updated payroll as of now….thats pthe number Nick Krall was told mid October by ownership as to what the Reds 2022 budget/payroll. He just didnt share that information knowing the reaction. What an exhausting incoherent incompetent futile process.

  53. Matt WI

    They successfully made Griffey the 7th highest paid player in the tea.m this year. Focus groups suggested that this would play much better with the fans.

  54. Chris Mo

    I don’t think Miley had as good a year as his WAR reflected. His biggest asset last year was leaving runners on base instead of the scoring. His BA allowed, runners allowed, etc were all near career norms. He gave up fewer home runs and left a lot more guys on base. I doubt its repeatable. Like everyone else here, all we can do is speculate as to motive, and make judgements on what we see. I just hope the folks in charge are smarter than we think they are. But I am reminded hope is not a strategy.

    • Old Big Ed

      And if you look at the past three seasons full seasons that Miley pitched, he was completely spent by September. His A-game can still be very good, but those A-games are fewer and farther between now, and he realistically is a 5-inning 4th or 5th starter going forward.

      Plus, if he came up lame in spring training or early in the season, which has happened to him before, then he would be $10.5 million down the drain. The Reds took that risk off the table. Most people here may not agree, but it was a sound financial decision.

  55. Indy Red Man

    Poor Doug. Basically became the sports equivalent of the Ukraine’s director of tourism

  56. Tom Mitsoff

    My apologies if someone else above has addressed this idea:

    Kansas City signed Zach Greinke very shortly after the Minor trade was announced. It seems that perhaps they were using the trade with Cincinnati to purge Minor’s salary and clear room for Greinke’s.

    The question I just can’t figure out: Why would the Reds accommodate them? Minor is an aging lefty whose effectiveness is clearly in decline. As Doug wrote above:

    “But the now 34-year-old struggled big time in both 2020 and 2021. He split his time in Texas and Oakland in 2020, making 11 starts and one relief appearance. His ERA jumped up to 5.56 in his 56.1 innings with 20 walks, 11 homers allowed, and 62 strikeouts. In 2021 he made 28 starts with Kansas City and threw 158.2 innings with a 5.05 ERA while giving up 26 home runs, 41 walks, and he struck out 149 batters.”

    How in the world does Minor help them, either as a 2022 pitcher or as a trade chip? He seems a candidate to get absolutely lit up in GABP.

    Trading Garrett? Meh. He was likely never going to be the closer. But why send him to KC for a pitcher clearly inferior to Wade Miley and Sonny Gray?

    Sigh. I think we’re all desperately wanting to understand. Sorry that I can’t help.

    • Old Big Ed

      I suspect that a lot of it relates to his connection with Derek Johnson.

      Minor has some odd stats. In 2019, he had a bWAR of 7.8, but a FIP of 4.25; last year, his FIP was 4.29. His 2019 BB rate (2.9) was higher than it was last year (2.3), with the strikeout rates fairly close, at 8.6 and 8.5. (I give everybody an excuse for 2020, just like horses in their first start. Secretariat didn’t win his first start.)

      He faced 85% RH hitters last year, which is fairly unusual, and the slugging percentage against him was 60 points higher for RH hitters than against LH.

      Johnson may believe that some adjustment in pitch selection will yield more ground balls and better results against RH hitters.

  57. Alex

    But but but but…. Big Bob just needs to have the same money to spend as other teams. Money is the only thing that matters. The luxury tax is big Bobs problem, we just need to lower that. Not the fact he is a complete trust fund baby clown show. He either panicked because they have no direction, or he had no clue what Miley was actually worth and found a way to add a worse version at the same price. I’m not sure you could try to be as dumb as this guy. Wish my daddy made me the VP of his company fresh out of the business school he paid for.

  58. Redsvol

    Nick Krall is playing 3 dimensional chess and the rest of us are playing go fish.

  59. Redsvol

    actually, I think they are looking at the fact that ~1500 innings need to be pitched this year. A typical bullpen will need to carry 400 of those, in a bad year 500.
    Which starters are going to carry those 1000 innings? Here is a stab at it.
    Castillo – ~180
    Mahle ~ 180
    Gutierrez ~140
    Greene ~120
    Minor ~180
    So there is 800 innings covered by the starters – and that is assuming very good health by the veterans and load management of the youngsters. You’ve still got ~200 innings the starters need to cover.

    Are we going to have perfect health? – No. So you’ve got at least ~200 innings (and probably more) for Lodolo, Dunn, AshCraft and others to fill. There are plenty of innings for the youngsters to soak up and develop with. We need a couple veterans who have a track record of carrying some innings.

    I would have preferred they found a veteran free agent instead of Minor but I also don’t think we’re going to get a decent veteran for less than 5 million$ (Rangers spent $4M on Martin Perez who is worse). I wouldn’t be surprised if they added another veteran in free agency to absorb some more innings because we aren’t going to have perfect health, they’ll have to be careful with a shortened spring training, and the youngsters haven’t experienced the stress of pitching in the big leagues before and will have to be load-managed carefully to avoid devastating injuries. Definitely a development year.

    And don’t forget, someone (Castillo, Mahle, Minor) is getting traded at the trade deadline if they are having an awesome year – so probably even more innings to absorb after July.

  60. Moses

    Strange move? Yes, definitely, and I’m not going to defend Krall or Castellini for one moment, but this move makes me a tad optimistic. I’m not suggesting that this particular trade is positive, but it what it does tell me is that there may be a plan in place besides cutting payroll at any cost. If we’re going to slam the Reds for cutting payroll day after day, we should applaud them when they do the opposite, even if it’s weirder than f_ck! This to me means that there may be a master plan and some method to the madness. Someone before me may have said all of this, but I just didn’t have the patience to read everything in one sitting. Anyone else think that this could suggest something a wee bit positive??

  61. Moon

    Inning eater. I beleive they have given up on this year and next and looking at 2024 before they try to field a competitive team again. So get prepared for a lot of losing.
    Given that, the salary for this guy makes no sense. I predict Minor will not be on the Reds roster next year. I am surprised this FO just didn’t try to bring Bronson Arroyo out of retirement again.

  62. JoshG

    The only way this trade makes any sense is if Derrick Johnson is who pushed for it because he thinks he can get Minor back to his serviceable to good numbers from a few years ago

  63. Roger Garrett

    Just another head scratcher for sure.One day it appears we are getting rid of salary and then we add it back with an older and less productive player.As in the past there obviously isn’t a clear direction as to which way this team is going.Laughing stock of the league and no change in sight.Guys must meet in the board room every day and decide whether to buy or sell.No words can really describe this leadership.