The Cincinnati Reds weren’t finished with the wheeling and dealing over the weekend when they traded starting pitcher Sonny Gray to the Minnesota Twins. Today they have traded All-Star outfielder Jesse Winker and third baseman Eugenio Suárez to the Seattle Mariners according to Jeff Passan of ESPN and Mark Feinsand of The return coming back isn’t yet believed to be complete, but Mark Feinsand is reporting that the Reds will get starting pitcher Justin Dunn, outfielder Jake Fraley, and prospect starting pitcher Brandon Williamson. A player to be named later is also in the deal.

Jesse Winker had spent his entire career with the Reds, spanning from 2017-2021 while hitting .288/.385/.504 – good for a 128 OPS+ in his 413 games played. He earned his first All-Star appearance in 2021 while posting a career best .949 OPS.

The Reds seemed to have attached Eugenio Suárez’ contract to the deal as Seattle will take on the entirety of it. He is owed $35,857,144 over the next three seasons, including a $2M buyout on the 2025 season unless the team picks up his $15M option. After having back-to-back outstanding seasons in 2018 and 2019 where he combined to hit 83 home runs and post a .912 OPS, the third baseman has struggled at the plate, hitting just .199/.293/.440 over the last two seasons.

Justin Dunn is the center piece for the return from Seattle. The now 26-year-old starter has 25 big league starts under his belt over the last three seasons where he’s posted a 3.94 ERA. He’s struggled to throw strikes, walking 69 batters in 102.2 innings while striking out 92. How that will play in a hitter friendly ballpark is going to be a big question that will need to be answered, but hopefully Derek Johnson can work with him to cut down on the free passes.

Jake Fraley, like Dunn, has only spent parts of the last three seasons with Seattle in the big leagues. He played in 19 games between 2019 and 2020 with the Mariners, but played in 78 last season. He’s struggled to hit, posting a .196/.320/.336 line in his 97 games at the highest level. There’s a little bit of pop there, and he walks plenty – but he simply hasn’t been able to hit to this point in his career and he’ll turn 27 in May. The outfielder has played all three spots in the big leagues, though most of his time has come in left field. As a left-handed hitter he could potentially be a part of a platoon situation at times.

Brandon Williamson was the Seattle Mariners 2nd round pick in 2019 out of TCU. The 6′ 6″ lefty split last year between High-A Everett and Double-A Arkansas where he posted a 3.39 ERA in 19 starts that spanned 98.1 innings pitched. He walked just 33 batters and picked up 153 strikeouts during the season. Baseball America rated him as the #83 prospect in baseball prior to this year (Seattle’s #5 prospect). His fastball works in the low 90’s but has touched 97 and has good movement. He mixes in an above-average curve in the mid-to-upper 70’s, as well as an average slider and change up.

The purging of the 2021 Cincinnati Reds might not be complete, but they have currently lost Nick Castellanos, Jesse Winker, Wade Miley, Sonny Gray, and Tucker Barnhart, as well as several others who were with the team for less time such as Michael Lorenzen and Mychal Givens. Yikes.

202 Responses

  1. LDS

    Can we call it a rebuild yet? And admit that Bell and Krall are both blowing smoke when they speak?

      • DK072257

        Yup, fire sale and give away something good for something not so good. Absolutely sick of the Reds owner.

      • Cyrus

        Remember how excited everyone was for baseball’s lockout to end. All of you might be thinking the lockout was better than what we may witness on the field this season.

    • Votto4life

      No according to some here we have to wait and see what the roster looks like on opening day

    • CP

      It is not a rebuild, it is a “special baseball operation.”

    • Chris Wheeler

      These are not even close to what type of prospects Winker and Suarez combined should get in a trade. Suicide by Reds Mgmt. This organization will not recover from what current Reds mgmt. have done lately for a decade. Just Sad.


      I would not be shocked to see Castillo and Mahle still traded.

      • LWBlogger2

        I’d bet on it at this point. Although I think the goal was to move Suarez’ salary. Nevermind that he is a good candidate to rebound in 2022.

    • earmbrister

      Losing Winker hurts. Probably my favorite Reds player, along with Joey.

      Sick to my stomach.

  2. Old Big Ed

    Ken Rosenthal is reporting that the deal “includes a player to be named going back to the Reds. … Reds high on that player, believe it will enhance package”


    • magi210

      Unless that guy is Roy Hobbs, I’m not holding my breath.

    • LDS

      We all know it’s going to be Julio Rodriguez. The Reds FO is just that good.

    • Rut

      “Reds high” is the only part of that report that sounds correct to me

      • G-Man

        Best post of the day! Made me laugh during another down moment as a lifelong Reds fan!

      • VegasRed

        Sadly, the reds are doing these stupid trades stone cold sober. This what an incompetent baseball owner and management looks like. All of baseball will be lining up with ridiculous trades offers for Castillo, Mahle and others. Yea reds!

    • votto4life

      Krall also said the Reds will have a choice of a few players. So it makes you wonder how they can be high on the PTBNL when they don’t even know who the heck he is 🙂

      • JayTheRed

        Yeah I noticed that too. I don’t hate the players we got back but I sure hate who we are losing.

    • Votto4life

      I have read in a couple of places now that it’s a PTBNL and/or cash consideration. I hope that’s not the case.

  3. Josh G

    This is making me physically ill
    would rather of had the lockout continue

  4. James K

    I thought I understood the Sonny Gray trade. This one, no.

  5. MBS

    Huh, well it’s looking like a full rebuild. I don’t hate the return, but we just lost my 2 favorite Reds. Very curious to see how deep they go, I hope they don’t attach Moose to Castillo or Mahle. It will kill the return.

  6. Amarillo

    I hope the people that wanted Suarez gone are happy!

    • scotly50

      I am. I was tired of him checking the weather on every swing.

    • greenmtred

      Yeah. It seems as though a little revisionism is creeping into the comments. Few people have said anything good about Suarez until now that he has been traded.

  7. Craig

    I’m so mad I could spit fire right now. 🙁 I loved Wink. I think I have reached my breaking point. I just booked a trip to see them play the Redsox at Fenway. That cost a lot of money, and in the past few days this team has just disappeared it seems. 48 years of this is starting to wane on me.

  8. Tom Mitsoff

    Clearly the front office is unloading anyone who receives a major league paycheck for what they consider to be high-end prospects. Players who they can pay on the cheap for several years — if they actually make it to the majors.

    All of this is like a dagger to the heart, but there is nothing we can do about it. I have no confidence that this management team will successfully pull off what amounts to a Tampa Bay Rays approach to player management.

    • Josh G

      except for to be done with the reds and /or baseball all together

      • Alan Horn

        I am now officially a Braves fan unless they pull off some of the same incompetence. They went out and got Olson. The two owners are about as far apart as can be. Winners versus losers.

      • DaveCT

        Alan I live in the PNW and am going in on the Mariners.

      • JayTheRed

        I honestly don’t hate this trade but it sure hurts my heart. Sonny was 2nd fav. pitcher on the team. Castillo is my fav. I’m sure he will be gone too soon. Every day moves a step closer to April 7th when I more than likely finally give up on the Cincinnati Reds.

    • MBS

      I will say, I’m glad they are moving now, instead of the middle of next year. The biggest mistake they made last time was rebuilding too late. Hopefully learning that mistake has informed their current moves, and brings in better prospects.

    • G-Man

      Tom – Completely agree with your assessment! Especially the part “like a dagger to the heart”!

      • Daytonnati

        Forever known as the “Pi-Day Massacre.”

    • KetteringRedsFan

      Tampa? Tampa??

      There are -two- (well, maybe one and a half) MLB franchises in Florida that the Reds could have selected as role model. They seem to prefer the -other- Florida team.

      They chose poorly.

  9. Allan Chandler

    A pox on Banana Bob and his cronies. This is Dick Wagner – esque salary dumping. Winker and Suarez were good players who will be very hard to replace, and as usual they got nothing nearly as good in return. You might as well fold this franchise. Who would want to go watch?

  10. MIichael E

    Sadly, the need to jettison players that should have been traded when they were actually excess value is causing returns on good players to be mediocre at best. Winker straight trade, I’d hope we’d get one of their true top 3 prospects. Add in the albatross that is Suarez and it degraded significantly. I wanted Suarez traded for a package back when he was hitting .245 with 45 HRs. Always had too many K’s for my liking and barely average defensively.

    All that said, I’ll still be a Reds fan, but the chances of buying tickets or merchandise…or even bothering to watch them on TV when on here, are fading to nearly 0%. The one saving grace, is FORCING the aggravating mangers (Bell and those before him) to actually PLAY rookies and let them start for a month plus before yanking them in and out of the lineup. Either they’re purposely trying to ease them in (so they’ll be ready when they’re 33 years old to be full time), or they love their sub-mediocre vets that are “true professionals”? I dunno.

    Play the young guys and now he has little choice… I hope.

  11. RedsFanInFL

    Reds seem to be in a perpetual rebuild mode

  12. Redlegs1869

    This is such a kick in the face for die hard Reds fans. A few weeks ago I was hoping/praying for the lockout to end so I could cheer on the Reds. Even though I knew it would be an uphill battle, having given away some good players already. Now, I feel sick to my stomach and rather dread opening day. Tanking. Rebuilding. It’s full on now. Depressing.

  13. AllTheHype

    Reds are operating like the Rays, which is a complement, not a detriment. Finally the Reds are cashing in quality assets prior to their walk year, something Jocketty and all GMs prior refused to do. They missed trading Suarez and Iglesias at their peak, but they are not missing on Winker. They haven’t traded any quality assets from the 2024 team, yet they potentially have made the 2024 team much better. If all the pieces come together, even ’23 could be a good year.

    • Amarillo

      These aren’t high-end prospects. This isn’t a trade like the Rays would make. This is a salary dump. If the player to be named later is Julio Rodriguez then you can make that argument.

    • Rut

      Dude, they just totally dumped Winker for an awful return in order to get out from Suarez’s salary.

      So they are 100% missing on cashing in on Winker at the sell high point. They get salary relief, but nowhere near the players they would have gotten from Winker alone. And no chance that $$ gets reinvested into new players, so this was bad from every angle — other than that of the Mariners

      • LWBlogger2

        Exactly Rut. Offloading Suarez because they “can’t afford him” as part of this deal hurt the return. I’ve historically given the team the benefit of the doubt but this is madness and cost-cutting at its worst. This is all a ploy for profits. At this point, even if there are ZERO butts in the seats, the Reds likely make money.

    • Josh G

      more salary dump,less getting prospects that are actually good


    • Stock

      I am more with AllTheHype than with everyone else. Just my opinion but Winker probably should be in a platoon. Williamson is probably about equal as a prospect to Lodolo although the ways they get to that value is very different. Both players are similar to Winker in value. Dunn could be okay if moved back to the bullpen.

      Fraley is the wild card here. If he could get back to the 20% K% he had prior to Covid he could be a 20 HR/20 SB type.

  14. NJ RedsFan

    I hope Votto asks to get out of this mess. He deserves better!

  15. AMDG

    Dunn – A pitcher who can’t go deep into games because he walks way too many people. (Averaged 4.5 IP per start last year)

    Fraley – An outfielder who hit 0.210 last year. I guess that goes well with Shogo & Aquino if the goal is to have an outfield that battles the Mendoza line.

    Williamson – A potential mid-rotation guy a couple years down the road. Maybe.

    I assume this is better than the Chapman return? Although it doesn’t seem too exciting considering that they gave up Winker.

  16. Joey

    Maybe this is a get red of everyone then sell the team to new owner with a clean slate start to the whole thing.

    • Tom Mitsoff

      That possibility should not be ignored. That would be one logical reason (not a good reason, however) that all of this is happening.

    • Alan Horn

      We can only hope. These are the worst Reds owners in my lifetime.

  17. Bet on Red

    Well at least the Bengals are good.

    Everything up until now made sense. I could understand the Gray Trade. But this….. this just speaks volumes of how cheap bob is. I am truly on the Sell the team bus now. I suppose the good of this is it and the DH will allow Senzel to be moved to the infield. I suspect we have one more big trade left. Funny, but we still need bullpen help and quite a few other peices. OF now looking like Naquin, Aquino and Shogo? with Senzel in the infield?

    • magi210

      Bengals signed a couple of OL to help keep Burrow upright, so there’s that at least.

  18. Tom Mitsoff

    If you’re looking for someone who likes this deal, search for @AramLeighton8 on Twitter. He believes the Reds clearly won the deal.

    • RedBB

      Don’t like this overall but on the bright side Brandon Williamson looks a lot like Nick Lodolo and arguably has better stats and perhaps is more MLB ready next year. Top 100 prospect per Baseball America. His SO9 of 14.6 last year is also eye popping.

      Also Fraley isn’t a bad player. He’d be a really good 4th OF’er and could turn into a decent starter. Last year his OPS+ was 104 and OBP was .352. Would be a good platoon player in CF with Senzel (Fraley .815 OPS vs RHP and 126 OPS+). Could easily be a 20/20 guy. Last 3 years in the minors his OPS was also 1.026, 0.910 0 and.962

      Dunn is basically a 4th or 5th MLB quality starter IMO, and he’s the guy I am least excited by. Stats are very similar to Vlad who is slotted as our #3 starter.

      You can also ask what kind of player you could sign for 3 years and $36M which is what you save on Suarez

      • Alan Horn

        To answer your last question. They won’t sign anyone who can help the team much at all.

    • Georgia Reds Fan

      It’s interesting that the ESPN graded the trade as a “B” for the Reds and “B-” for the Mariners, but Schoenfield seems really high on Williamson as a prospect. Maybe it just seems worse because of our fondness for the players let go.

      Also of note, the Gray trade: Twins: A-, Reds: D+

      I still hate the trade and wish Bob would sell the team, but wanted to show what may be a neutral observer POV.

  19. Dave K.

    The team will be sold within 2 years. This is being done in prep for that transaction. I hope I’m wrong, but I doubt it. Will be a miracle if the team stays in Cincinnati.

  20. Dallas Redfan

    Been following the Reds since 1961 and cant remember an episode like this where the team just decides to give up any pretense of fielding a competitive team. Is it true that the Reds FO has released the guy who makes the ice cream for the little helmets too? Reds maintain that tapioca will save the club money.

  21. Clammy

    Any chance Senzel gets some starts at 3B or is he strictly a CF now?

    • Redsfan4life

      Senzel will likely start the season on the IL . If not will be on it soon. No point in even counting on him at any position.

      • RedBB

        He just gave an interview saying he is 100% healthy. TFWIW though..

    • Votto4life

      Yesterday Krall said the Reds outfield was Winker, Senzel and Naquin.

    • MBS

      At this point it would be foolhardy to say the moves are done, so we might want to see the full pitcher before moving players around the field. I like the idea though, He looked good in the dirt last year, and should stay healthier at 3B.

    • RedBB

      Yes, I think that’s a safer spot for him as well. I could also see Farmer at 3B too. Senzel could also provide a solid CF platoon with Fraley. Fraley OPS vs RHP last year was .815 and Senzel career vs LHP is .773

  22. Redsfan4life

    Mahle and Castillo are likely next. They will make them take Moustakas in one of those deals. Making the return worse than this deal.

    • Votto4life

      Yeah I can see the Yankees taking on moose’s contract for Castillo. But why quibble, let’s throw in Mahle too.

  23. DaveCT

    Sure looks like ownership is reducing any and all possible financial liabilities. Is Big Bob selling? Or just having a tantrum? After all, Bob reportedly was one of just four opposed to raising the luxury tax. My vote is tantrum. And I’m thrilled to see the Reds are heeding the new CBA rules against tanking.

    • VegasRed

      Not selling! Just increasing the profit taking from teams who actually think trying to win is a thing.

  24. Darrin

    I am very, very disappointed in this.

  25. Tom Mitsoff

    I think we have to begin to ask ourselves whether it is fair to Joey Votto for him to stay through another rebuild. He has the no-trade clause, but I would imagine Krall might approach his agent about options.

    I don’t want him to go, but what’s happening right now is not only brutally unfair to us as fans, but to Votto. Give him a chance to win somewhere.

    • BenchWarmer

      Toronto is supposedly involved with Freddie Freeman, so they’re looking for the same position (1b/DH) and at least in the same ballpark in terms of money. Reds would probably have to pay at least some of the $57 million guaranteed, but if all Bob cares about is saving money he would still be saving a lot. Freddie is younger and a better player right now, but not by a huge margin (if you believe JV has 2 more good years like last year); he would probably be more willing to DH than Freeman, allowing Vlad Jr. to play 1b which he presumably prefers. Mostly, I just don’t want to see JV suffer through these next 2 years as the Reds, well, whatever it is the Reds are doing. Free Joey Votto!

    • Redsvol

      absolutely. I’m one of the few that is not opposed to a sell-off because lets face it – we weren’t going to win a playoff series with the team constructed as it was in 2021. Making the playoffs isn’t/shouldnt be the goal. But I agree, its not fair to ask Joey to go thru a retool/rebuild whatever it is. They should ask him what he wants to do – and if he wants to be moved we should do it – even if we have to eat large part of the salary.

    • Hotto4Votto

      I agree about being unfair to Votto. I’d absolutely hate to see him go, but he really shouldn’t have to be here for the next two seasons. It would be a very sad day for me and a ton of Reds fans, but I’d be happy for him to go to a contender.

    • LWBlogger

      At this point Tom, if I’m Joey, I would have already called Krall and told him “I’m willing to waive my no-trade clause to go to these teams (list of teams). I’d rather prefer to be moved at this point in fact.”

  26. Randy in Chatt

    Makes you wonder if Joey Votto will want to stick around for this….or is that the point???

      • Moon

        I would think, given what is happening, the Reds would move Votto to anyone that would be willing to take on his salary with no return beyond perhaps a low level propect. In reality that would seem to be in the best interest for Joey as he finishes his career as you stated as well as the Reds allowing them to save a lot of salary money.

    • Randy in Chatt

      Tom, you were too quick for me.

    • Matt WI

      Man… if Joey wants to go to Toronto, let him go, that could be amazing for him. I’d be a fan.

      • Melvin

        I doubt if Votto goes. If he does I’ll be a fan of any team that might be just for his sake.

    • MBS

      I was thinking the same thing, he might ask to be moved if his final years are going to be a rebuild.

  27. Doc

    I might pause totally washing my hands of baseball. The Reds might actually field a team of young guys eager to work hard and perform. Hot dang! The previous gang didn’t get the job done.

  28. Chas

    Gut punch for sure! The last two days has seen the personality of this team fall away. Looking forward to Drahons and Y’alls games. They’re better family experience and value.

  29. Josh G

    and after all this the Reds starting rotation COULD still be a dominate force.
    of course I probably wont be able to say that this time tomorrow ….

    • Bob Purkey

      Yep, losing a lot of 3-1 and 2-0 games

  30. Jonathan Linn

    I am more upset about this rebuild than the one In 2015 because its not like the Reds were that far away from a WC birth this year….grrr

    • Matt WI

      Totally agree. Felt like we all agreed that one was coming and necessary. This time it just feel like Bob is saying “well, we kind of tried that one time and look where it us. Back to the sweet basement hangout with the Pirates.”

  31. Steve Schoenbaechler

    I’ve been on here not spouting praises of the FO but not spouting disses, either. I’ve always said, “I want to see what we get opening day.”

    I’m mixed on this, probably more on the “WTF” side. For, again, I want to see what we get opening day.

    We’ve only seen the selloff. Will we bring anyone in? I mean, with the Bengals, a lot of people were wondering, “Who are these rejects they brought in” before last season. I believe those “rejects” did a pretty good job for the Bengals.

    I don’t like what’s I’ve seen come back so far. And, I don’t like letting Winker go. I believe his contract was still “cost effective” for the Reds. But, I have no problem letting Suarez go. That simply became a bad contract.

    Also, I have always been penciling in Winker in left field for this season. From what I was seeing, with the regular 8, I saw all the same needs we had last season, with the only exception, “What about right field?” And, last year, they did pretty good. Now, I’m thinking, “What about left field?”

    So, I’m not on the other side of the fence. But, I still want to see what they bring in. If this is it, they are going to lose a lot of attendance this season, I believe. I didn’t see any reason to rebuild. Tweek maybe, but not rebuild

    • Votto4life

      Let’s live in a fantasy land and say the reds are going to use the savings to sign a top tier free agent. Who in their right mind would sign with this team?

      Who would ever want to play on this team?

      The Reds Payroll must not be much higher than the Pirates now.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        With Votto and Moose? Those two alone are probably equivalent to the Pirates.

      • west larry

        So sad. I hope Votto agrees to a trade and escapes, yet another rebuild.
        Goodbye Mr. Winker. Loved you man.

      • Votto4life

        Steve, I don’t know someone posted here yesterday that the Reds payroll was sitting at $100 million after the Gray trade. This trade should have the Reds under $90 million.

        You just know they are going to move Moose even if they have to offer Castillo and Mahle to get it done.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if the Reds payroll will be sitting under $70 million by opening day.

        $1 million dollars per win this year.

      • greenmtred

        I doubt that they intend to sign a top-tier FA. If that were the strategy, they wouldn’t be cleaning house. They’re getting young. Like it or not. I think it might be interesting, and will certainly watch.

    • Redsfan4life

      Steve, Any hard-core Football fan knew who every player the Bengals signed were and knew most were good signings. Turns out they all were good.
      Reds will sign a couple below replacement level free agents nothing more. What player worth his salt would wanna come play for this mess of a club? None. They would have to overpay to get any good free agent to come. They aren’t doing that.
      I respect your opinion. But I whole heartily disagree.

      • Steve Schoenbaechler

        You don’t know, and I don’t know what FA’s may want to come here. It wasn’t that long ago, though, I believe just last year, when many FA’s who are still available were saying that the Reds seem like a fun team to be around. Though winning will having tendency to do that.

  32. RedsGettingBetter

    The FO and ownership got rid of Suarez’s contract but sacrified Winker… There are some points will explain if this trade will be successfull or not as for example Suarez returns to bat again in Seattle or continues struggling below Mendoza line, or Dunn and Fraley have a breakout season or just stay performing below average. Williamson should be watched in the minors he seems to have some upside as prospect. Right now, I very worry about the offensive, the line up looks very weak unless they acquire one or two cheap hitters in free agency that could make up the gaps.
    Is This Dick Williams team destruction finished? I wonder if they will trade Luis Castillo or Mahle to get rid of Moustakas’ contract in next days… Wow only Votto, India and maybe Farmer among the regulars players seem confident that they would survive this tsunami…

  33. Lid

    If I was Votto, I would request a trade, hopefully only to teams he preferred. When your team isn’t trying and would be ecstatic to get rid of your payroll, why stay?

    Reds goal is to get to 30-40M payroll, so I’m not going to any game, buying merch, and any tv views would only be on platforms I already have.

  34. Magnum 44

    Lol yeah right…..just found out the bengals signed 2 guards. WHAT A CRAZY WORLD TO THINK MIKE BROWN IS THE BEST OWNER IN CINCY…..

    • TXRedLeg

      Nah – Bengals went to the SB despite of themselves. If anything, Brown wrote the book about how it’s not about fielding a competitive team, it’s all about having a seat at the buffet table.

    • Westfester

      I think the kids have finally taken the car keys from Mikey and are running things now.

  35. TheCoastMan

    I posted this on the Sonny Gray story and think it is worth re-posting to illustrate Castellini’s greed:

    Castellini is the poorest owner in MLB at a net worth of 400 million. If we are in a situation where we can’t afford a 100 million dollar payroll then maybe we need an owner with more money. That begs the question — are the reds really loosing money?

    We can’t see the books, but based on the last 2 years it is possible that we lost a little in that time frame — maybe….

    Here is where it gets interesting, starting in 2022 every team will receive a share of at least 110 million through TV rights and revenue sharing. The reason I find that number interesting is because that is exactly where Castellini seems to be taking the payroll. It wasn’t disclosed, but Phil Castellini said that the Reds got a nice bump from the 30 million a year on the Fox Sports TV deal and that they also bought a minority stake in Fox, which increases it further.

    We haven’t even gotten to revenues from attendance and other sources, and I don’t profess to be an expert on the expenses of running a MLB team, but it seems to me that some numbers are not adding up. Other small market teams had the same issues the last 2 years and don’t seem to be in this money pinch that the Reds claim they are in.

    On last point to make is that I am not sure at all that we have seen the last of the salary dumps. I have a feeling the Reds are angling to get under 100 million.

    Forbes estimates that the team is worth over a billion dollars. If Castellini is as poor as he seems to claim, maybe it’s time for him to cash out and sell the team.

    • TheCoastMan

      I want to make one point here. I don’t have a problem with a rebuild, but STOP lying to faithful fans about it. Plain and simple, these are all salary dumps with little to nothing to show for it. I can’t imagine any GM in baseball getting the pathetic haul we have received for all of these players. And we aren’t even talking about that fiasco last year giving Iglesias away.

      And as I said in the Gray post, I still don’t think Krall is done. Sorry Castellini, I refuse to line your pockets with one single dime for the foreseeable future.

  36. bryant

    Just because they are tearing down does not mean there is really any plan to rebuild.

  37. Paul

    Platoon Farley, Shogo, and Aquino, and we’ll have a CF who hits .600. Well, almost.

  38. Josh G

    these moves have clearly been about saving money first, and getting a good return package of prospects a distant second …. not quite pure salary dump but just a notch above it..and it sucks

  39. ReddirtRed

    Nothing in return for Wade, or Tucker, very little for Sonny, and nothing much so far for Jesse and Eugenio. So disheartening as a long time fan. Sell the team if you have no interest in fielding a competitive one. I was supposed to leave for Arizona on Friday, no need to go now, we have a AAA team in OKC. Castillo will be next. #selltheredsnow

  40. Johnny Sofa

    This is not a rebuild. To rebuild, you need blueprints, materials, and a plan. The Reds have simply created a perpetual mess for the past 8 years. The occasional toying with .500 only makes fans think, “Well, we might have something nice in a year or two.” At which point management kinda but not completely tears it apart. They should have pulled a complete Tampa Bay years ago, but instead dealt Cueto, Bruce, Chapman, Frazier for buckets of mismatched nuts and bolts. It’s the same with Miley, Barnhart, and whatever this is from Seattle (not to mention dealing for an 18-year-old pitcher who might possibly maybe hopefully be a major leaguer someday). The idea of building for the future while also being built to win now with minimal current and future assets is called a non-plan. And so it continues.

  41. TR

    I’m sorry to see Jesse Winker go just as he was coming into his own; an All Star this past year. There’s cloud cover as to the starting outfielders, at least until tomorrow.

  42. LDS

    Krall’s talking again. If he doesn’t show something for all that lip, he’ll be worse than the CEO of the company I retired from. That guy would lie when the truth would serve him better.

    • Alan Horn

      CEOs, politicians, lawyers and preachers. While there are a few good ones, you had best watch most.

  43. Michael E

    My comment got moderated out. I used the word aggravating with Bell, guess that might be considered a personal attack? Falls well short of that…in my opinion. Oh well. The jist, I wished we had traded Suarez when he was a .250, 40 HR hitter with high Ks and “great” contract. The rebuttle I got on here was why trade a player on a great contract. I said because the return would be tremendous. Now we moved him with Winker and the return was lowered due to Suarez negative value.

    Seems like us Reds fans watch GM/owner do most everything a year too late. This is a reactive front office, not a proactive one.

    Considering what the Braves gave up for Olson (worse average, better power/defense than Winker), feels like we got shorted..again.

    As one noted, if this means a potential sale or even a move to see if anyone is interested in buying the Reds, by Castellini and his Ownership group, then it could be a positive move. Of course we could end up with Castellini light and be just as bad off. Any super rich Ohio natives out there that might be itching to buy an MLB team?

    • Michael E

      Does anyone have a direct line with Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos and can con them in to buying the team?
      Maybe Charlie Sheen has enough cash to partner up with someone and buy the Reds. Even with his long run of success before turning nuts, he seems lacking financially…and he is a little off, so not sure what kind of organization it would become.

    • Moon

      The Braves seem to make a lot of moves that work out. They have a situation similar to the Reds with Votto a few years ago. Thier first baseman, Freddie Freeman, is a FA and looking for a long contract to end his career. The Reds signed Votto to the long term contract. The Braves are letting Freeman go and traded for all-star first baseman Matt Olsen to take his place. They will have Olsen two years. No long term obligation of an aging player and they actually ended up with younger, arguably better player I like the Braves approach here more than what the Reds did with Votto

      • Alan Horn

        I will be watching the Braves this season. I most certainly am not paying to watch the Reds. They should be paying the fans to watch.

  44. Votto4life

    When a team is rebuilding they trade veteran players for young prospects who have a chance to make the team competitive a few years down the road.

    This is a difference between a salary dump and a rebuild. This front office is not trying to win now or in the future.

    This is just about cutting payroll. I suspect some of it is Bob being petulant because the labor negotiations didn’t go his way.

  45. Eric the Red

    This looks like the return will be worse than the Chapman deal. I’m depressed.

    • Michael E

      Only now? LOL. Just yanking your chain. We’re all mostly depressed. I have a friend who is diehard Yankees fan (he grew up in upstate NY). He just can’t understand why our owner doesn’t spend more. You have to spend to win is his thought. I explained our owner has lowest net worth in MLB (among owners). He gets that, but its hard to explain why a team can be so routinely cheap. I note that the Yankees revenue is probably 4 or 5 times the Reds revenue. If it weren’t for the soft cap, the Yanks would probably have a $400+ million payroll and still turning big profits.

      As most lament, if we could just be more like Tampa Bay, life would be tolerable, instead own owner/GM keep acting too late and driving a bargain that no mediator could like. Sigh.

      It’s easy being a Yankees fan, its TOUGH being a Reds fan.

      All I can say is thank goodness for fantasy baseball, because without it, I’d have lost interest in MLB in any way, shape or form 10 or 15 years ago.

  46. Votto4life

    The Reds have no other choice but to build through the draft, because there is no chance any free agents will sign here anytime soon.

    I wonder if payroll is aligned with resources yet?

    • Michael E

      FA can’t sign if they’re not approached. The only FA’s being approached are those that have been out of baseball for 1+ year, playing in an independent league or playing overseas…i.e. afterthoughts.

      We’ll sign whatever is left stuck to the bottom of the barrel and spin it as a coup. ;^)

  47. Old-school

    Winker was a favorite of my mine because he had a hit tool. Finding elite hitters is very difficult. Yes, he was poor against lefties but he was tops in MLB against righties. With the DH coming to the NL and Votto off the Reds after next year…Winker seemed like a legit lefty bat for years at first base, DH and occasional LF.

    3 things from the Reds:
    1.) They weren’t committing to winker beyond 2023 and so if they arent committed to winning in 2022/23- trade him.
    2.) They desperately wanted out of the Suarez contract- the only contract that extends thru 2024 and so Winker was used to expunge both. Homer bailey dodgers trade V 2.0. Attach assets to bad contracts,
    3.) They arent committed to winning in 2022 or 2023.

    The WIlliamson kid pitched with Lodolo at TCU and looks like a great asset- but he is not enough for winker and the other 2 are filler.
    This trade was about 1 thing and 1 thing only-getting rid of Suarez’ contract.

    • AllTheHype

      I would not agree the other 2 are filler.

      Since 2018, Fraley slashed .317/.388/.548 in MiLB and in MLB his BB rate is a very impressive 14.8%. If he can get his hit tool to approach what he did in MiLB and then combine that with his improved BB rate, he has potential.

      And Dunn misses bats and gets outs at a MLB level, but needs to get better command. He has potential too.

      And then there is also the PTBNL, who Rosenthal stated “Cincinnati believes that still-unknown player “enhances” the quality of their return.”

      • Alan Horn

        I have no doubt the the ones running the show do believe it. That is the problem in a nutshell.

  48. SFRedsFan

    I’ve been a Reds fan since for nearly 40 years (I’m 42) and have loved this franchise even during this last decade of terrible ineptitude. But today may have just been the end of that.
    I’m disgusted with trading Winker just to dump Geno’s salary.
    1. Free JV (though it would break my heart).
    2. MLB has to view Bob as an embarrassment of an owner. God I hope they force him to sell.
    3. I feel bad for Krall. I’m sure no young GM wants to be told “gut the salary and I don’t care what you get in return”.
    This team just had huge pieces of its soul ripped out. Sad, sad day.

  49. Don

    Castellini pushes Krall out to the podium to make announcements, but the moves and the carefully worded ambiguous statements from Krall do nothing to lay out a plan as to what they Reds are truly looking to accomplish (besides merely saving money). A huge part of the problem is that most Reds fans are convinced, and understandably so, that the ownership doesn’t care much about winning. And if that isn’t true, the Banana Bob needs to convey his commitment to winning emphatically and very clearly. I think fans might feel a bit better if he were to do that, but the fact that he rarely speaks to the masses only infuriates fans further in believing that winning isn’t a huge priority for him, which in turn hurts himself, the fans, and the organization. This conveys that the organization is apathetic and going through the motions while the rest of us are hung out to dry with our dashed hopes and dreams. If you are going to make moves that run counterintuitive to winning, then show some leadership, prove that you care, and communicate with the fan base. Show us some passion, frustration, and a renewed commitment. After all, it is the fans who pay the bills, Bob. Apparently, along with winning, this too appears to be something else that isn’t a top priority for Bob. Ownership here is woefully lacking in many areas.

  50. Nick in NKY

    Like many here, I’ve been of the opinion that I could accept a rebuild if it seemed part of a plan. One of the most oft heard criticisms of the team is how they botched the last one due to holding on to depreciating assets too long. So, at least we can say they’re aren’t making that mistake this time.

    The Miley debacle was an embarrassment. The Barnhart deal was a joke. The Gray trade I understood even though it made me sad. But this one? The PTBNL had better be one of the M’s absolute stud outfield prospects, but I bet I know how that will work out.

    This just screams firesale with no plan for anything.

  51. BatsLeftThrowsRight

    How low this team has gotten, since that ninth inning homer by Winker against the Cardinals, which included a four game sweep of the Cards on the road.

    I don’t mind unloading Winker, his swing(injury prone) and his defense make him a liability, and Suarez can go swing at air somewhere else now.

    I’m coming around to these moves because they give hope for the future. But with the Owner they have that just might be naive.

    Both sides of the fiddle I just played, I know. And don’t tell me Suarez hit 340 in September. I’m not impressed…..

    • Michael E

      if we at lest get to see 5 or 6 rookies with lots of playing time this year, then AT LEAST we’ll get to see what the future may hold. I just hope we don’t sign a bunch of subpar vets, and run them out there 4 of every 5 games and a few prospects only get ‘spot starts’ and 8 ABs a week. Stop mentally toying with the young players and give them a long run. When they go 0-5, or give up 4 ERs in 1 inning, tell em “we’re not worried about you at all, you’re a player, stay with it, keep practicing and just be you”

  52. Steve Schoenbaechler

    One thing I’m trying to remember about losing Winker. . .he has had some injury problems during his time with the big club.

    • Melvin

      Trading Winker was wise. He was at the peak of his value and contract year coming soon. It would not be wise to give him a multi year contract with most of his injuries coming from just swinging the bat. That would only get worse with age most likely. What we got in return??? That’s the problem. Maybe I’m undervaluing the players coming our way. As of right now it seems a big time failure of our GM I’m afraid. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Suarez get into a new environment and become an all star again in which case this trade will seem even worse. His contract is a deal and a half relatively speaking if he comes close to what he once was and actually makes contact on a regular basis again.

    • greenmtred

      He has. I like Winker, but he’s a good hitter from only one side of the plate, doesn’t field or run well, and is frequently injured. In a rebuild–which is clearly where the Reds are–Winker is a guy you trade. I understand the disappointment–rage is a better word–but rebuilding with prospects is the only way that the Reds, realistically, are going to be contenders going forward.

  53. Eric the Red

    I wanted Votto to retire a Red. But it seems cruel to put him through the next couple of years. Bummer.

    • Melvin

      One thing about Votto. I think he likes playing with younger guys like India. It kind of rejuvenates him. He’ll probably have plenty of youngins to play with. :)….provided David Bell actually plays em. 🙂

  54. SOQ

    “We’re not making trades because we have to,” Krall said. “We’re making trades because it’s best for our long-term outlook of this organization. Sustainability is where we’re going.”..
    I guess “Sustainability” is the new rallying cry for the Reds 🙁

    • Eric the Red

      “Reds Fever: Sustain It!”
      Uniform patches: “Tide for stains, Reds for sus-stains!”

    • MBS

      I honestly don’t have a problem with that. I have a problem with halfbutting it. Oakland, and TB have show the ability to play that way. If the Reds go that route, and succeed, then sweet. It’s easier to be sustainable (cheep payroll) it’s hard to be good.

      • AllTheHype

        Indeed – re: your last statement. Glad to see the Reds planning and executing for longevity. We won’t make the playoffs this year, but it will be fun to watch the youth movement and if things go right in ’23, they may be able to compete.

    • Votto4life

      Someone needs to tell Nick Krall to shut his pie hole no one is buying his non sense and he is just embarrassing himself.

    • Alan Horn

      Sustainability alright. Sustained losing.

      • Alan Horn

        This mess doesn’t make you grumpy also? I have been around long enough to recognize a disaster when I see it.

      • greenmtred

        It’s baseball: It doesn’t make me particularly grumpy. I’m looking forward to seeing what the young guys do. I’ve been around for awhile, too, and frequently remind myself to wait and see what actually happens.

    • TheCoastMan

      If that isn’t an outright lie then Krall is the dumbest GM to to ever hold that position because that means he got fleeced on a level no one has ever seen before.

      Every sports writer and commentator, along with us fans, are calling what’s happening in Cincinnati a salary dump because that’s exactly what it is.

      The next thing you know he’ll be trying to tell us the Reds don’t have any red in their uniforms.

      • greenmtred

        Even though fans and commentators know more than anyone, I have to point out that rebuilding with prospects will almost always be, also, a salary dump.

  55. SellTheRedsBob

    I propose a trade of Castellini and a pot of homeless soup for the Steinbrenners?
    I haven’t watched a game since the Atl playoffs. Won’t attend or buy a thing Reds until Bob is gone.
    $4 a month to Doug is my budget on Reds baseball until Bob sells or dies.

  56. Michael B. Green

    I’m never negative about the Reds. That changes with respect to the ownership today. It is about time to boycott Reds’ home games until ownership commits to winning. Otherwise, sell the team and focus on canned vegetables.

    There are a few teams in the league – CIN is one of them – that disguise rebuilding with rebuilding for other teams. The SEA rebuild is complete.

    I’m sure there is upside with the players acquired. And I’m more than certain that the upside will get dealt before it materializes. Dealing for prospects that are later traded for more prospects is tired and transparent. it just spell salary manipulation.

    As soon as the CBA is agreed to, CIN ownership fire sales their team.

    If you cannot afford to own a MLB team – sell the team – not the players. Find a way to leverage your ownership.

    CIN ownership does not deserve to earn a profit at all this year and if they take their share of revenue and do nothing to invest in the team, they are the problem that the players were pointing out during the 99 days that ownership locked them out.

    Let’s go Reds 2027.

  57. JB

    Dear Cincinnati Reds Fans,

    We are proud to be the new owners of America’s first professional baseball team, the Cincinnati Reds.

    We’re long-time baseball fans who have grown up with the Reds and have fond memories of going to the ballpark. In our lifetime, we faithfully cheered on the Reds through three World Series championships, six National League championships and eight division titles.

    We know this team truly belongs to you, and we understand what the Reds mean to our city and our region. We know what a winning team can do for a city’s pride. We also understand the unique legacy the Reds hold in baseball history and the potential to reignite an American love affair with the nation’s first professional baseball team.

    It is with a sense of both responsibility and respect that we pledge to Reds fans:

    We will bring championship baseball to Cincinnati. The Reds have a long tradition of success. Only three cities have won more World Series than Cincinnati. We will work hard to be a championship team again.
    We will build one of the most respected organizations in baseball. As partners in other successful baseball organizations we know how it’s done. We will build a winning management team by putting the right people in the right positions with the right resources to win. We will foster a winning attitude and culture.
    We will have a greater community presence. We will continue to improve the lives of area children by building on already successful Reds Community Fund programs like the Rookie Success League. Whether it’s providing a way for inner-city children to play baseball or generating funds for charity, we’ll take this outreach to a new level.
    We will rekindle the Reds Nation spirit. We’ll share our story and our strategy, communicating directly with fans everywhere who want to know what is going on. When you visit the ballpark, we’ll periodically be asking for your feedback so we can continuously improve the experience. Our goal is that you feel a part of the Reds Nation whether you’re at the game, listening on the radio or living in another major league city.
    We will not rest until you are happy. The Reds are, after all, your team. You buy the tickets. You watch the games. You support us financially and emotionally. Without you, the Reds cannot be great. We know you won’t be happy until the team wins. We won’t be happy, either.
    Bringing championship baseball to Cincinnati is the ultimate goal. Like you we believe in the power, potential and magic of the Cincinnati Reds. We will work tirelessly to bring a winner home to you.

    We thank you for this opportunity and hope to earn your support.

    Robert H. Castellini, Chief Executive Officer

    Joseph Williams, Jr., Chairman of the Board

    Thomas Williams, Vice-Chairman of the Board

    • JayTheRed

      Everyone should print copies of this letter and post them all over his Bob’s buildings and buy stampers that say in all caps. LIAR!!! Because that is what has happened. It was all a lie.

  58. Michael E

    I did see this from a Seattle fan posting in another chat.
    “WHAT!? First, you have to realize that Brandon Williamson would prob be many teams #2 or #3 prospect. He’s a 6’6” LHP with 22” of vertical drop to his FB. 22” just think about that for a minute. Second, Baseball America recently did a piece on MiLB pitching prospects highlighting which pitchers threw the best pitches. For ex: who has the best slider, the best curve etc etc. Brandon Williamson’s FB was rated by BA as THE best (all around) FB in the whole of the Minor Leagues. Did I mention it had 22” of vertical? That’s mind blowing. Frankly I’m really REALLY sad he’s gone. You have no idea how good this guy is.”

    Fraley’s minor league numbers are pretty good. plus .900 OPS, in AAA and AA, albeit in inflated PCL. He might already be our bet OF (sadly) for 2022. He could be an average hitting, speedy OF with good plate patience, not the worst thing in the world for 1/2 slot in the order (or even the 9th slot).

    • Michael E

      Trying to see the positive and trying to get a little excited to see the young guys play. Lets hope they play. Lets hope that Greene, Lodolo, Ashcroft, Barrero and others are given a real shot at opening day roster and starts. Given it’s the Reds, I no longer care about manipulating service time for super 1/2 or whatever, just play em, you’ll probably dump em before FA anyway.

    • Johnny Sofa

      If we search hard enough, we can still find someone saying wonderful things about the Cueto trade.

    • greenmtred

      I appreciate that, Michael E. I’m one of the few who does, though. Mostly, nobody wants to be consoled.

  59. Hotto4Votto

    Well, I like the idea of selling, but the execution on this one feels to similar to before by targeting near-ready guys that don’t have the upside of guys further away. I like the Williamson kid’s description, but am pretty “meh” on the other two. Guess there’s a PTBNL that supposed to be substantial, so withholding complete judgment for now.
    Getting out from Geno’s contract likely lessened the return which I’m not a huge fan of considering Winker was a big trade chip.
    TBD, based on the player to be named later, but feels pretty light on the return upon first glance.

  60. Old-school

    The reds didnt get a haul
    The negative of Suarez contract created a crater for any deal with anyone. Hence, why the Reds attached WInker- a proven All star hitter.
    I like Williamson but lets not confuse a haul with a negative number so huge in a calculation. This was a Suarez contract dump and his contract was so awful the Mariners said we can handle 35 million if that means we get Winkers 7 million AS caliber hitting. A guy who cant throw strikes at the MLB level and is erratic month to month and another guy who is a 4th OF at best- per Seattle prospect analyst on Mo Egger radio show—isnt a haul.

  61. TheCoastMan

    Yea, let’s be honest, Bob. You get 110 million minimum from the national TV contract and revenue sharing. Phil Castellini said you got a nice bump from the 30 million a year on the new Fox TV deal and you bought a stake in them for even more profit.

    And then, you have the nerve to ask me to buy tickets, merchandise and concessions? What do you think my name is? Nick Krall.

  62. Michael E

    Baseball trade value has it
    Winker, Suarez – 22
    Fraley, Dunn, Williamson – 23

    I actually did watch Fraley in spring last year, wondering if it he might take an OF spot and be a good fantasy player to draft. It didn’t work out that way, but he’s better than his low AB .200 average says. Williamson is at least high upside with big time fastball.

    Dunn is just a decent pitcher with a sliver of upside remaining. Kind of a “well, lets see if we can get improvement from him” and he might be a solid SP4/5 type.

    • BK

      Take a look at the link you provided … it also has $12M going from the Reds to the Mariners which has not been reported. In other words, their trade evaluation tool would have rejected this as lopsided in the Reds favor.

  63. Dennis Westrick

    Again, someone please call 911 as there’s a fire! Ooops, my bad! There’s a FIRE SALE going on in Cincinnati! OK with getting rid of Suarez but Winker too? Might as well cancel the Reds MLB schedule and move to where the remnants of this team belong – AAA

  64. SteveO

    Ok, 1 last trade of Castillo and Mahle to the Angels for Marsh, Adell, Detmers, Bachman and Paris. Not including Moose for maximum return. Angels will instantly have one of the best rotations in MLB and we fill some OF holes and pitching depth for 2022 and beyond. Detmers joins the group for starting rotation spot in 2022. Best 5 going forward starters for 2022. 2023, very possibly 2022 starting rotation of Greene, Lodolo, Williamson, Detmers and Ashcraft. Gutierrez, Sanmartin and Dunn to bolster the bullpen.
    Stephenson, JV, India, Barrero, Senzel, Adell, Marsh, Naquin starters with Moose as DH. Bench of Knapp, Farmer, Schrock, Fraley or Friedl. Farmer right handed DH and spot starts in IF. Aquino traded for minor league depth piece and Shogo sold back to NPB with Cincinnati eating majority (6-6.5M)of salary. Salary in line with cheap owner needs and young, competitive lineup with the future in mind. Might have growing pains with starting rotation, but invaluable experience moving forward.

  65. Michael B. Green

    Let’s look at the metrics that CIN ownership looks at in making trades.

    Justin Dunn 1-2 options. Minimum salary. Excellent opportunity to manipulate his earnings so that he earns way less the MLB minimum. Current shoulder soreness points to possibility of using insurance to pay even that amount.

    Jake Fraley 1-2 options. Minimum salary. Perfect earnings manipulation opportunity. Arbitration eligible at end of year so look for a non-tender posting in Nov 2022. All to avoid playing a player his due.

    Brandon Williamson. No need to call him up and add to 40MR before Nov 2022. Regardless if he earns a call-up, cheap ownership and earnings manipulation will prevent him from a chance of getting called up this year.

    PTBL – Player may well likely be someone that is not a 40MR player, injured or both.

    Winker and Suarez salaries off the books. Replacement players combined to perhaps amount to 1 minimum salary. Savings turns into earnings for ownership. Profits instead of wins.

    Castellini would never have held onto Bench, Perez, Rose, Griffey, Concepcion, or traded for Morgan, Gerononimo or Foster.

  66. Old-school

    It just gets better.
    Dunn has a shoulder injury and will be held back. The .210 hitting lefty outfielder has horrific splits against lefties. Reds will sign another OF from the right side and David Bell is frothing at the mouth

    We never had it so good with Billy Hamilton and Adam Duvall and Winker- flawed guys who could do 2 things really good

    Now we get David Bell box of chocolate AAAA handedness lineups

    • Melvin

      You guys are starting to crack me up now. lol Have to be able to laugh if you’re a Reds fan. 🙂

  67. KYpodman

    Maybe they are shedding payroll to resign Catellanos!!! Ah, just needed a laugh (or cry). Reds FO should take up the Reece Cup commercial motto, “Not Sorry!”

  68. Votto4life

    I have been a Reds fan for 49 years. I’m not interested in following other teams. I’ll just wait out another bad Reds owner. In a whole line of bad Reds owners. Either Bob will die first or I will.

    • Dennis Westrick

      Got you beat Votto4life! Been a Reds fan since 1960. That’s 61 years according to my math!

  69. CI3J

    I have long been in favor of the Reds blowing it all up and trading their high value pieces away, because, as I kept saying, the team as it was constructed was not good enough to win it all, and might have barely been good enough to make the playoffs. So what was the point of continuing down that path?

    However, I was expecting them to get some actual good prospects for their valuable pieces to build for the future, not a bunch of AAAA players.

    If ever there was any doubt that all Bob does not care one bit about the Reds or the fans, I hope that doubt is gone by now. If this keeps up, the Reds may just end up being the worst team in the central for years to come with no hope on the horizon.

    Seriously, besides Votto, who is left to root for on this team? The team has no personality, no identity. India, Stephenson, and Barrero could be nice pieces to build on, but that’s a long way from a full baseball team (and I doubt Barrero will ever be given a fair shot). That Reds have tons of young, talented, but unproven pitchers.

    And even if Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, and whoever else actually work out, how is this team going to score runs? They have no 1B of the future, no 3B of the future, and no outfielders of the future.

    The Reds have traded away two former All-Stars, and have not gotten a single future impact player.

    Where is the hope for the future of this team?

    • greenmtred

      It might make you feel better if you reviewed RLN comments about Suarez from last year.

    • Hotto4Votto

      I get the frustration, and I’ve been there with you most of they way hoping to tear down. The Fraley and Dunn aspects of this trade remind many of us too much of the missteps of the past, targeting near ready, low upside type players. And attaching Suarez to Winker certainly diminished the trade return while saving Bob more money. That definitely leaves a bad taste.

      But I think you’ve got to look at the Williamson kid a bit more. A top 100 lefty that has already reached AA. Everything I read about him makes me think he’s legit and likely on the same level of prospect as Lodolo. And maybe it’s just speculation and mislaid Red’s FO hope, but the PTBNL still has a chance to help this deal look better. And then Chase Petty from the Gray trade was a recent 1st round pick (which is slightly higher than a QO pick and I’m pretty sure Gray would not have been offered a QO if he were a FA) is the type of high level/high ceiling prospect the Reds should target. And honestly, I’m not sure much more could have been had for Gray, he’s two seasons removed from his best with the Reds and has essentially been our 3rd best starter the last two seasons and has had some nagging health issues.

      So, while not trying to blow sunshine up anyone’s rear end, I’m not upset by the returns from these trades, with the caveat that the PTBNL changes the value down the line. Of course, if they merely stop here it will feel halfhearted and short of fully committing to a direction. They need to see what they can get for Mahle and Castillo as well, and hopefully maximize their immense trade value. We’ll see.

  70. Chris Holbert

    Well they still have Farmer to play SS

  71. Jeff Morris

    I vote we change the name of this baseball team from the Cincinnati Reds to the Cincinnati Rebuilders or Cincinnati Fire Sellers.

  72. Michael B. Green

    Someone committed to winning would have Kyle Lewis as the PTBL. Let’s see who it is.

  73. John Orlowski

    Jesse Winker was my favorite Red – he was the MVP of the team as far as I was concerned. I wonder if the Reds are going to try and become the “Oakland Athletics” of the National League?
    I hope the front office will be able to justify, a year from now, why they decided to unload all of these popular players.

    • Alan Horn

      The two best hitters last season in my opinion were Winker and Castellanos. Both are now gone along with Barnhart and Suarez. Two of the starting rotation are gone. Miley and Gray. A major chunk of your BP is gone and they didn’t have a bench to start with. At this point things look pretty dismal.

  74. LWBlogger2

    1B Bugs Bunny
    2B Bugs Bunny
    SS Bugs Bunny
    3B Bugs Bunny
    LF Bugs Bunny
    CF Bugs Bunny
    RF Bugs Bunny
    C Bugs Bunny
    and on the mound Bugs Bunny

  75. LWBlogger2

    It is only for my love of RLN and out of respect for Doug that I don’t go on a cursing rant worthy of “The Old Man” (Ralphie’s father) in “A Christmas Story”

    • Alan Horn

      I feel sorry for Doug having to write about this circus.

      • wkuchad

        At least his ad revenue should be way up for March.


  76. LWBlogger

    I don’t think it’s rebuilding that fans are upset with. It’s clear that tying Suarez into the deal and asking that the M’s take all of his salary reduced the return on the deal. Then there was the waiver of Miley versus trying to flip him later
    Those 2 things are more akin the shedding salary as opposed to smartly rebuilding. I think that’s where folks are sideways. I’m included in that. In general I’ve given the Reds the benefit of the doubt but I can’t here. This is simply salary dumping and trying to erase any loses from the last 2 years. It’s relatively sickening to me. Anyway, my thoughts on it good sir.