The Cincinnati Reds fell to the Chicago Cubs 4-3 when the Cubs scored a run in the bottom of the 8th to put the game away on Monday afternoon.

Final R H E
Cincinnati Reds (73-66)
3 6 1
Chicago Cubs (64-75)
4 7 0
W: Effross (2-0) L: Lorenzen (0-2) SV: Morgan (2)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

The Offense

The Reds got all of their runs in the 6th inning. With the bases loaded, Asdrúbal Cabrera was hit by a pitch to get Cincinnati on the board. A wild pitch brought in their second run. Max Schrock then doubled in a third run to tie the game up. But that was all they would get on the day and it wasn’t quite enough.

The Pitching

Sonny Gray allowed a 3-run home run in the 1st inning to Reds killer Ian Happ. He settled in from there and didn’t give up any more runs in his 5-innings of 3-run baseball. Lucas Sims and Luis Cessa tossed a shutout inning of relief each in the 6th and 7th. But in the 8th inning the Cubs put together three hits against Michael Lorenzen to plate a run and take the lead for good.

Notes Worth Noting

It’s Labor Day. Short recap. We’ll be back to full recaps on Tuesday.

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

Cincinnati Reds vs Chicago Cubs

Tuesday September 7th, 7:40pm

Wade Miley (11-5, 2.97 ERA) vs Adrian Sampson (0-1, 1.59 ERA)

110 Responses

  1. burtgummer01

    I’ve more or less mentally conceded the playoffs over the last few days. It’s still technically possible I guess, but they are clearly just completely melting down and I don’t see that changing when half the lineup is AAAA fodder and Suarez.

    Reply
    • Greenfield Red

      I’ve been so down on this season that some may think I dislike the Reds. I love the Reds and I want them to win it all. I don’t think the current structure and formula has any chance of doing so. Making the playoffs as the 2nd wildcard has little worth. A play in gane in LA or SF, and if they somehow manage to win, they stay on the WC to start a series with the other. Unlikely to turn out good.

      Reply
      • Alan Horn

        Agree. A lineup with Cabrera, Suarez, Deshields, AA and the pitcher is like conceding an out for 5 of the 9 batters in the lineup. Difficult to win under those circumstances and it repeats itself day after day. Castellanous and a few others are trying to carry the team. I shudder to think what it will be like if we lose Castellanous.

      • 2020ball

        well the current structure aint changing, so why not just root for them to win it all anyway.

      • JayTheRed

        Losing Winker has been huge.. India is a great spark at the top of the order but having such a strong top of the lineup when its
        India
        Winker
        Castellanos
        Votto
        Naquin
        Famer
        Then the scrap heap.

        It makes a huge difference not having Winker in there.

      • greenfield red

        I do root for them to win it all… probably more than most on here. I don’t see a lot of value in the 2nd wildcard… especially this year when it means a futile trip to the West Coast. They need more talent and more attitude. To get more talent they either have to spend or draft. I don’t see them spending any time soon. WC 2 gets you about the 20th pick in the draft. They can draft an undersized SS, pay him $5 mil and hope he makes it as a back up someday. Won’t work.

        From the attitude standpoint, can’t let St L and Mil own you, and they have backed down from both and it is costing them. Even the league office won’t give them a fair shake. Time to put about 4 straight pitches on 4 straight Brewers knuckles.

    • Cyrus

      I’m sure there would be quite a bit of debate from true Red fans who have different opinions about this season. I’m a lot more like Greenfield Red. I know there have been seasons in MLB history where a team that had shown little signs of life suddenly catches fire in a bottle and goes on a run. Many would argue that was us in 1991 and I agree that we were probably not the best team in MLB that year but we had strengths that made those of us who love the Reds believe it could happen and it wasn’t just pie in the sky dreaming.

      This year’s team has a fatal flaw in a critical area and we all know what that is. On top of that, we have key holes in key positions (3B) that have not been addressed and those have been talked about a lot.

      This is not a team that has a realistic shot at anything in October. I still think the teams that they have to fear for that 2nd wild card are in the NL East. The NL Central is as bad as it has ever been and this last month is showing just how inferior it is to the rest of the NL.

      Reply
      • Greenfield Red

        Good points Cyrus. The 1990 team had some things this team does not have. The two most important were an owner who wanted to win, and just as important, it had Lou Pinella.

        I don’t think Lou would have allowed Milwaukee to take out one player and try to talent out another. There would have been payback and bases would have been dislodged and thrown into the outfield.

        The 2021 Reds did nothing.

      • Greenfield Red

        To add on to that, no spine makes the Reds an easy target. I don’t think the 1990 Reds would have suffered the same fate as the 2021 Reds did in that St. Louis dust up in April. There guy shoves ours, and out guy gets suspended. Again, the Reds did nothing. Need to knock Molina on his backside a couple of times.

      • greenmtred

        The 1990 team had a terrific bullpen. It had Eric Davis. It had stellar defense. It had excellent situational hitting. We’ll never know, but I bet that if you gave Lou this year’s roster in 1990, the outcome wouldn’t have been rosy. I don’t know whether Bell is a good manager or not, and I certainly share the growing anxiety about the rest of this season, but the recent bad streak has featured very little hitting–including by the good guys at the top of the order and, yesterday, a meltdown by this year’s arguably best relief pitcher. Make it all about the manager if you like: it’s certainly an easy and tidy way of looking at things.

      • Greenfield Red

        With Lou managing this team, there would be more wins. The lineups would have been better day to day, and he would not have put up with St. Louis and Milwaukee owning the Reds as they now do.

    • AMDG

      Well, when they refused to play Barrero, and then sent him down, it was pretty clear they weren’t serious about making a playoff run…

      What we see now is the result of this.

      Reply
      • greenmtred

        Not knowing the details, I wouldn’t feel comfortable drawing that conclusion. It might easily have had to do with his development, since he’s not hit much at the MLB level–small sample size, to be sure.

  2. J

    Suárez standing like a statue at second base on a wild pitch, with the other two runners moving almost immediately, was really hard to understand, but what’s equally hard for me to understand is that Bell NEVER removes guys who make mistakes like that. These inexplicable mental mistakes seem to happen a LOT on this team, and I can’t help but wonder if Bell’s inaction has something to do with it.

    Reply
    • Steven Ross

      Inexcusable Suarez didn’t get to 3rd. Brantley raked him over the coals and rightfully so. Cabrera broke from 1st but saw Suarez going back to the bag when the play was at home. SMH

      And please John Sadak, please quit telling me Suarez is showing signs of life. It’s September! He hasn’t hit since April!

      Reply
    • doofus

      Nothing has changed, Suarez has always been a very poor baserunner.

      Reply
  3. LGR

    Bases loaded and the Cubs change pitchers to a righty and Votto stays sitting on the bench? Nice one Bell.

    Reply
    • Arthur

      Mistake to pull Gray after 5?

      I suspect he could have gone 7 today. He threw really well after first inning HR. I think the longer you can go without dipping into that bullpen, the better.

      Reply
      • Chris Holbert

        He could have done as well as Moose, who pinch hit for him, at the plate

      • Doc

        Been saying that all year. BP struggles start with SP who can’t cover more than 5. In Nolan Ryan’s day every start had the goal of 8-9 innings. By 10 years ago it was being called a quality start if an SP went 6 and gave up 3 runs or fewer (even though 3 in 6 is a 4.5 ERA, hardly quality). Now if they make it through 5 innings they get a ‘well done’ pat on the butt.

        Sadly, when you read the game summaries or box scores of all levels of Reds minor leagues, nobody is consistently exceeding 5 innings. Get used to bad BP results; it will be the norm. The days are gone when the starter goes 8 and turns it over to Gossage or Rivera for the ninth.

      • JayTheRed

        Doc, Your right! I can’t stand this thought process around baseball that 5 innings is a good start for starting pitching and I don’t want to hear the oh they start losing it with the 3rd time through the lineup. Baseball has set these players up to fail after the 3rd time through the lineup. I remember watching games even in the late 90s early 2000’s where if you didn’t go 7 innings it wasn’t a good start.

        For a few years now I have hated how Bell ran his rotation. I really hope he isn’t back next season. He really doesn’t promote a winning chance for the team. There are very few managers in baseball that I think are worse then Bell and I can’t stand his ho hum personality during interviews too.

  4. Votto4life

    I guess we won’t be seeing any posts urging the Reds to extend David Bell this week.

    Reply
    • wkuchad

      Hoping Reds extend Bell. But I guess I’m in the minority on this site.

      Reply
      • Votto4life

        In my post regarding extending David Bell’s contract, I was referencing a Cincinnati based journalist who was calling for Bell’s extensions couple of weeks ago. .I didn’t mean to criticize posters in this group. I value everybody’s opinion here.

      • Gary

        You can definitely say that again. And again. And again.

        Until serious structural changes are made starting with ownership and on down to the field manager level, this team will be more than satisfied with a .500 or just above .500 record. That seems to be just enough to get attendance to where they hope it will be, thereby remaining status quo. The days of REDS COUNTRY, which encompassed Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Virginia, and West Virginia are long gone.

    • LDS

      I agree completely. If they extend Bell, which I believe they will, there’s no reason to anticipate a better outcome. Castellanos will be gone. Suarez will still be swinging and missing. The lineup holes will continue to exist. And the Reds will keep playing .500 ball with an occasional streak.

      Reply
      • Arthur

        This team,!without Castellanos, isn’t a .500 team. Heck – they might not be a .500 team with him.

        Especially when you consider that they have no one in-house to replace him.

      • 2020ball

        well, that just makes no sense, since they are literally a .500 team. Above in fact.

      • Rob

        The team is in purgatory. High immovable salaries being the biggest issue. And add on to this is that they are slow on the bases and slow in the field. Plus our best hitters – Castellanos and Wink – are just as slow. For these reasons, I wouldnt mind losing both Wink and Nick IF!! The IF being we get added value for Wink in the trade market and we spend Nick’s $16M on something of equal value. Give me a young speedy CF and young somewhat speedy RF. I am not talking prospects. I am talking proven 280 hitting guys who can hit 20HRs and steal 20 bases. I might also “trade” Moose or Suarez for somebody’s else’s overpaid underachiever who is a Closer or Starting Pitcher. Then trade one of our Starting Pitchers for another speedy OF. Resign Farmer, Naquin.

    • Alan Horn

      Oh there are still those who still think Bell is not at fault in any of this.

      Reply
      • burtgummer01

        Oh theres also people her that are oblivious to the fact that Moneybags Bob has been owner for 15 years and had a .500 or better team in just 4 of them.But yeah we’ll blame Bell for that too

      • greenmtred

        Alan, I don’t doubt that Bell has made decisions that didn’t pan out. Nor do I doubt that every manager makes decisions like that. Unlike us–the commenters at RLN–actual managers don’t have the luxury of hindsight when they do this. The Reds have serious holes in their roster and have all season. They’ve played some good and exciting baseball despite that. They are still in the hunt.

    • JayTheRed

      Doug should put up a poll on this site. Do you wish Bell would be extended. I think it would be pretty lopsided.

      I for one would love to see Benavidez as the next reds manager.

      Reply
      • 2020ball

        this comment is ridiculous, first of all the season isnt over. secondly, of course he takes some blame for the teams performance. but if youre looking for someone to blame for a winning season that isnt going the way you want, then id look at the front office for constructing the team improperly if anything. especially after burning guys from their previous bullpen.

  5. Klugo

    Next question: If the Reds finish below .500, does Bell get axed? This is starting to feel like a possibility (the under .500 thing, that is).

    Reply
    • Joe P.

      Honestly, if the Reds finish with a losing record, I don’t see how he survives that. He might still have most of the players on his side and maybe some of management too, but I’m thinking (negative) fan sentiment will override that. I think the calls to make a change would start to grow and would overwhelm the last vestiges of support.

      Reply
  6. JEFF MORRIS

    Yes….you have to advance to third base on that, Suarez. Moustakas not getting it done, and popping up with runners on 2nd and 3rd base. He continues to struggle…Reds not getting the timely hits…even if they were to have that second wild card spot, right now…lets say, and play that one game playoff tomorrow vs the Dodgers or even the Giants, they would not win, not playing like this! Would not be surprised if Bell doesn’t return next year, given the Reds record since August 24th.

    Reply
  7. Jon

    Nick Krall has to go. Cabrera’s now what, 0-10 with a costly error? Deshields is useless considering we already had Akiyama. We have a bullpen option wasting away in AAA while we have Brach here. Nothing like fabulous roster construction.

    Reply
    • Hotto4Votto

      I believe most of the blame ultimately lies at ownership group’s feet, starting with Big Bob. They’ve handcuffed Krall and Bell to some degree. But the roster construction is bad. The Reds sent three lefties with a .580, .600, and .655 OPS splits vs left handed pitching up to bat in the 9th down a run. That’s not really giving your team a great chance. And you can’t really fault Bell because the other options were Barnhart and Akiyama. (Though it should be noted Barnhart actually has a .771 OPS vs LHP in 2021). But this has been an issue all season. We needed better balance on the bench, but here we are.

      Reply
      • Alan Horn

        It is hard to tell exactly who all is at fault but they should all go down with the ship. It starts at the top and works it way down.

      • Doc4uk

        Our right handed hitters cannot hit lefties either

      • Hotto4Votto

        I think it’s more so that some of our RH options don’t hit, period. Suarez, DeShields, Cabrerra aren’t answers to replacing Naquin, Winker, or Votto’s production in the lineup when a lefty is on the mound. Stephenson .807, Castellanos .957, India .885, Aquino .834 and Farmer .817 all have a better OPS vs LHP than they do vs RHP. In Aquino, India, and Farmer’s case their splits are pretty pronounced (though India is still pretty good vs righties). So those RH definitely hit LHP. But outside of Suarez, the other guys were added as castoffs in a late attempt to right the ship as the team continued to struggle vs LHP. Unfortunately there’s a reason they were available for nothing, because that’s the value they add. The Reds needed to have found better balance for platoon/bench roles from the RH side from the beginning. Instead they messed around with Heineman. Finding a guy like Phil Ervin who crushed lefties would have been a huge lift. Or they could have given Barrero or Lopez legitimate shots at playing time to help balance things out. But….here we are and lefties are going to be our kryptonite.

  8. Gpod

    If the reds don’t make the playoffs but they fire Bell, I would consider it a successful season

    Reply
    • RedAlert

      I want them to get in too … but if they don’t , that scenario would indeed be a success … agree completely

      Reply
    • HOOF HEARTED

      The best thing said on here for a long while couldn’t agree more, but I’ve been saying this about him since May, he is Dusty Baker , without the wins , just doesn’t want to play youth . Ever younger player wasn’t supposed to play, only got in cause of injury or suspension to a vet He wasn’t smart to see India as starter, took Moose getting hurt for him to play in spring training. Naquin only got regular playing time, do to injuries and Ayiyama wife situation. Stephenson had to out hit managers thoughts to get regular playing, forced his way into more time, by having 14 pitchers all year and only a couple of bench, these regulars are exhausted, plus Winker injury sunk this ship , cause roster construction and managers lineup construction

      Reply
      • Alan Horn

        He has ran from from the AAA prospects as if they were snakes. It is not good for their confidence to used them sparingly and as pinch hitters or in Moreta’s case to never bring them up. They might all fail but how long does it take one to realize the “has beens” have been a failure and that is not likely to change.

      • Randy Peterson

        I keep hearing how these guys are exhausted? From what? Striking out too much? Making bonehead baserunning mistakes? Taking too many called strikes down the middle? Tired of giving up too many runs to teams they should beat. They live like kings. If they can’t focus for 3 – 3.5 hours a day, something’s not right.

    • JayTheRed

      If the Reds don’t make it to the playoffs I won’t be shocked. I didn’t think they would at the start of the season either. I was surprised how well they did til about the end of Aug things have started slipping.

      My hope is they have at least a winning record. 5 over would be a decent season. But knowing what we all know now it would be a bit of a disappointment on how this team was run this year.

      If for some reason we don’t have a winning record or a .500 record Bell needs to go.

      Reply
      • greenmtred

        If Bell goes on a tear and has a couple of 3 for 4 games and pitches a few shutout innings, you’ll change your tune.

  9. Mark Moore

    Doug, I’m thinking the recap title should be …

    Reds Fill Fan’s Hearts with Hope – Then Rip Them Out and Show Them to Fans!

    Reply
    • Grand Salami

      “The pronged kitchen utensil is dangerously close to being stuck in these Reds”

      Reply
  10. Hotto4Votto

    Seems like all the Reds have done since moving into the WC position is try to give it back.

    Reply
  11. SOQ

    The Reds are 11 games behind the Brewers, and 14 games behind the first Wild Card (LA at the moment). If we somehow get into the 1 game playoff–and win, we then get LA or SF in the NLD series. We unfortunately haven’t proven that we belong or can play with the big dogs. That being said. For the first time in almost a decade, I feel that the Red’s future looks bright. We have a good young core already at the MLB level, and a wealth of promising talent in the wings. 2021 is a season of promising signs for the future. After the last 8 years, I consider a BIG step for the future

    Reply
    • Jon

      I am optimistic about the future regarding the rotation, regardless of whether Miley is brought back. The bullpen needs a massive makeover this winter. Lorenzen and Givens are free agents, I believe. Sims and Cessa are about the only two locks to be there next year. The offense needs major work as well. You can’t expect Votto to give you the same level of production he gave this year. There are major decisions to make regarding Suarez, Moustakas, and Akiyama. Not to mention what to do about Senzel and whether or not to bring back Barnhart for $8 million. Yes, the future is bright regarding India, Stephenson, Winker, and possibly Barrero (will we even see him play regularly this year for the Reds?). Yet everything else is as murky as it’s been in a long while. If they lose Castellanos, that will be another massive hole to fill. If the NL adopts the DH this winter, yet another quality bat is needed.

      Reply
  12. JB

    If the Reds play the Dodgers in Wildcard game, Urias will be throwing for the Dodgers. Today’s lineup will basically be what Bell throws out there against the lefty. Its football season. See you all next year.

    Reply
  13. Hanawi

    Is there another story behind Akiyama’s disappearance from games? He has gotten only 4 at bats in the last two weeks. He’s admittedly 0 for his last 16 but that stretches back almost a month to mid-August. Is he injured? If not, what’s the point in even having him on the roster right now? Surely someone like Lopez would be more useful.

    Reply
  14. Hanawi

    Also I missed the game today, so I’m wondering if there was a reason that Aquino was pulled despite getting hits in his first two at bats. I understand he’s been struggling quite a bit in the 2nd half, but that seems like an odd time to switch someone out of game.

    Reply
    • Jim Walker

      LH/ RH situation. Same as the other day when Naquin replaced Aquino after he had hit the 3 run HR and followed on with a 2 run triple of his own. Today Naquin lined out. Schrock followed Naquin with the game tying triple. Moose then hit for Gray and popped out on the 2nd pitch he saw

      Reply
      • Hanawi

        Thanks. Hard to fault, but also difficult to remove one of the few right-handed power hitters in the lineup for the rest of the game.

      • Jim Walker

        missed a little on detail. The Schrock hit was a game tying double not triple.

    • LGR

      2 hits or not, Aquino shouldn’t even be sniffing a starting lineup on a team trying to contend for a play off spot.

      Reply
      • Jim Walker

        Take this for what it is worth or not but for the month of September prior to today (Monday) in 5 games, Aquino had an OBP/SLG/OPS of .545/.714/1.259 in 11 plate appearances. He was 2/2 Monday so that will hold right in or even go up a bit when the numbers including Sept 6 are posted.

        He may not be part of the long term solution; but, he doesn’t seem to have been the problem in the last week.

      • ClayMC

        I’m willing to bet a shockingly high number of players, regardless of true talent, have put up 11 PA stretches of 1.259 OPS or better. So while you’re correct in saying he hasn’t been a problem over the last 5 games specifically, I don’t know if that exactly translates to “Aquino in our 2021 starting lineup isn’t a problem”.

      • ClayMC

        Social pariah Asdrubal Cabrera has had at least 4 such non-overlapping spans this year alone.

      • ClayMC

        Even Suarez has done it twice this year, including in the last week.

      • ClayMC

        not to belabor the point, but i thought i’d correct an issue on my end. i did my initial analysis using game log data, meaning that i wasn’t focusing on each 11 PA stretch per se, but instead was looking at each x-game stretch in which the 11 PA minimum was surpassed (e.g. if it took 3 games to obtain 11 PAs, i performed a 3-day OPS calculation for that day, even if i was forced to calculate based off of 12 or 13 PAs). It was less granular data, but i thought it served as a decent proxy.

        However, if you instead pull plate appearance data, you find this 1.259 OPS threshold to be obtained far more often. I typed earlier that Suarez has 2 stretches in which he had reached 1.259 OPS given my original game log constraints. He’s actually had NINE stretches in 2021 alone of exactly 11 PAs that resulted in an OPS >= 1.259.

        Point being, what any major league player does over an 11 PA stretch is almost never indicative of anything.

      • Jim Walker

        Prior to the Winker injury, Aquino was being used as an RH hitting platoon guy vs LH pitching paired with Naquin vs RH pitching. HIs seasonal OPS was .782 and wRC+ 103. i.e. he was a league average offensive player.

        After the Winker injury, he cratered when used against a lot of RH pitching.

        The last week Aquino has been back in his original role paired with Schrock (or again with Naquin); and, that lineup spot has not been an issue. So, yeah, he is not a guy you plan around for 2022 as an everyday starter but used as he is used the last week, he isn’t the guy killing the offense.

        The biggest problem spots the last week are Farmer (OPS.580/ wRC+ 52) and Moose (.500 wRC+27). In the month since Moose has been back, his OPS is .611 and his wRC+ is 61, yet Bell seems determined to continue to use him as the 3B versus RH pitching even though his defense is probably even worse than his offense.

      • ClayMC

        I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you’re saying, other than forming an opinion over any 11 PA stretch.

  15. wizeman

    Hello Doug… a question I hope you can answer. A gentleman on another website has laid the blame on this season at the feet of Nick Senzel. You watch more monor league stuff than me. My question is did it seem to your eye that Senzel had put on 20 plus pounds?

    Reply
  16. SultanofSwaff

    I was at the game today and that was a tough one to swallow. Given a choice I would have rather batted Gray with second and third and two on in the 5th knowing I would get two more innings out of him than to bat Moose and attempt to take the lead there. Like we’ve talked about before when you have to use four pitchers per game invariably one of them is going to be off and we saw that with Lorenzen.

    These lineups seemingly do more harm than good. The batting order has no balance to negate the pitching changes from the opposing team. If you’re using only right-handed batters at the beginning of the game invariably the only people left at the end of the game would be left-handed and that’s what we saw in the 9th inning– three straight left-handed batters…. advantage Cubs. I think we can all agree at this moment the team would be better served batting Naquin and Schrock and Votto five times a game rather than Aquino and DeShields and Cabrera regardless of who is on the mound.

    Reply
  17. Bet on Red

    WHo Dey Who Dey, Who Dey think they going to beat them Bengals…… its about to be that time

    Reply
  18. Hanawi

    Seems to me that they will need to get rid of one of Suarez or Moustakas in the offseason to free up money to either resign Castellanos or bring in someone new. I have been thinking that Moose should be the one that goes due to the fact that he is owed more money and Suarez has been a team leader for awhile now. However, he is more versatile than Suarez, being able to play 1st, 2nd and 3rd, and they might decide that his 2nd half is due more to injury and being out of playing shape, which might have a better chance of being fixed in an offseason than whatever is wrong with Suarez.

    Reply
    • Greenfield Red

      The Reds still have to pay him. No team in its right mind woumd talent him for that price.

      Reply
      • LGR

        They might if you threw in a .. Tyler Mahle or Luis Castillo. I think they should look at trading BOTH Moose and Suarez in the offseason.

        Castillo and Suarez to the Yankees for Glayber Torres.

        Gives the Yankees a stud youngish starter they need. Also gives them the chance to rework Suarez as a above average hitter.

        Gives the Reds a young player who probably needs out of New York to be successful. Could be the 3rd baseman or 2nd baseman of the future. (India could go back to 3rd)

        Mahle and Moose to the Angels for (possibly) Brandon Marsh.

        The Angels potentially get a ace in Mahle who wouldn’t have to pitch at GABP anymore. The Reds could also throw in Garrett/Senzel to really push for Marsh if they thought he was a player to really go after. The Angels kinda have riches in the outfield. Walsh could move to a corner outfield position of they wanted to keep Moose and see what he was like at first for them. If the Reds couldn’t get Marsh, than a high prospect for Mahle should be justified, definitely if you were to throw in Garrett or Senzel. They could possibly think they could get good value out of Garrett like they did with Iglesias.

        Reds could potentially get the center fielder of the future in Marsh + cut some payroll.

        This would free up money for the Reds to get Castellanos/Lorenzen signed. Could also maybe look at Seager if Nick didn’t want to resign. Although then I’m not sure what would happen to Barrero.

        They would definitely have a problem in a few years when all these young guys would come up for new contracts, but by then Votto would probably be off his contract, maybe resign for another year or 2 for cheaper.

        Cool to speculate what could/might happen. This team is young with some studs in Louisville. Should keep building that up.

      • VaRedsFan

        That’s a good plan LGR. Even if you have to burn a prospect or eat a little money….clearing the dead weight would be a big step on the right direction

    • Hotto4Votto

      If Matt Kemp and Homer Bailey taught us anything, it’s that there’s few contracts so bad that you can’t trade it. I mean, Kemp was traded multiple times on a contract no one wanted. David Price was recently traded on a big contract that he wasn’t performing up to.
      So if there’s a will there’s a way. The question is, will Krall be creative enough and/or have the leeway to eat some money/include other assets to make such deals happen.
      I agree at least one of Suarez or Moose needs to be moved. I’m hoping we can work something out with Akiyama as well, maybe a buyout or deal to have him back in Japan. Clearing at least two of those guys provides much more roster flexibility, and possibly even opens up the financial ability to fill holes on the roster (bullpen, OF when Castellanos opts out). I hope Krall can figure it out.

      Reply
  19. Jim Walker

    The Reds are in dire straights. Right now they are playing just poorly enough to lose. They need someone to step up and win one of these close games for them. Hopefully, that will propel them back to winning ways before it is too late.

    Either someone steps up to get them out of this funk or the season goes for naught. Things are as simple yet brutal as that.

    Reply
    • SOQ

      Joey Votto is the guy who should be the leader of the club. He benefitted from the leadership of Scott Hatteberg and Scott Rolen in his younger years. He should be the guy who lifts this team up now. He has never been comfortable with that position tho, instead getting his inspiration from India and Castellanos. Votto needs to step up as a leader for this team to succeed

      Reply
  20. Mark A Verticchio

    There is no way Suarez should see the field the rest of this series, his lack of hustle or smarts cost at least one run. Bell does not have the nerve to bench people for poor play like that, he is a friend not a manger. Can you imagine what Lou , Sparky or Pete would have done about such a play. Cowboy said about as much as he could on the broadcast. Oh well on to football season, this team is done. One more note India is giving away the ROY.

    Reply
  21. Chris

    I’d have to look, but it sure seems like this collapse has really taken hold at the same time this organization has decided to sign two aging vets that were nothing more than castoffs on other teams. Cabrera and DeShields are awful; just awful. We have to kids in AAA that are so much more talented at this point, who could actually benefit this roster. And by the way, is there a rule against team meetings in baseball now? Good grief, either a player step up and organize a team meeting, or Bell should; probably Bell. This pressing or whatever it is has to stop, and someone needs to step in and chew some people out. HORRIBLE play of late, and too many mistakes as well.

    Reply
    • Jim Walker

      I have been wondering for several days if there has been a closed door players’ only meeting or not. Certainly seems like past time for one to me. With the pandemic, the media coverage just isn’t there like it was before. We don’t get any feel at all of the dynamic in the locker room/ clubhouse.

      And yeah, Bell speaks of not wanting to change things even as the GM keeps shuffling his personnel.

      Reply
  22. Redsvol

    Sequence of the game was Suarez not moving forward on the wild pitch. Its not the first time this year that he’s seemed asleep during big situations – both base running and covering bases. This is a playoff push, everyone needs to be playing super aggressive and not passive. Plus, just simply not enough hard contact. The swings are weak and not putting any pressure on the other team to play defense. Just lackluster offensive play for weeks now.

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  23. LGR

    I still hate Stephenson in the 2 spot. Why is one of the, if not the most clutch hitter on the team not hitting behind the bulk of the guys who get on base at a good clip? Hit him 4th. Or 5th when Votto is playing. No reason to stack the lineup like today with as many rightys as possible. Larkin has said it before, that just makes the pitcher have to work at doing one thing the whole game. Naquin or Schrock should be in every lineup until Winker is back and today if Votto REALLY had to have a day off, Stephenson at 1st with Tucker behind the plate would have made the most sense. Votto not pinch hitting for Farmer against a guaranteed right hander with the bases loaded is one of the WORST moves Bell has made all year, imo. Then letting Votto come in against the lefties for the last out is just icing on top.

    Reply
  24. LGR

    Also. I really don’t wanna be the person to say it, but Farmer has fallen back to Earth. If you discount his explosive July, his OPS on the year is lower than Geno’s. It was a GREAT month by Farmer and he plays a GREAT defense, but he is not a every day player and even when he was hot the front office should have known that. Barrero not being on this team right now and starting is just outrageous.

    Reply
    • Jim Walker

      And I’ll say something which has occurred to me but I’ve bit my tongue about now. The way Votto and Farmer exploded out of the All Star break had me wondering if they had received some sort of inside the rules rejuvenation treatment during the break. The way they have both crashed since has me wondering the same now.

      Reply
  25. TR

    It is what it is. There’s limited time left but the NL wild card #2 is still winnable for the Reds. The four straight series losses has to be broken and the Reds have to win close games. Someone on the offense has to step forward and provide leadership. If not, the season will have been a good run.

    Reply
  26. Doc4uk

    They need Winker back if even at 80% He protects Votto. Notice Votto production fell dramatically when Winker went out. Bring up Warren and Moreta and drop Brach and Garrett. Or at a minimum place Garrett on the IL and hope he develops a new pitch and a new approach in the off season

    Sit Farmer and bring up Barrera. Drop Deshields and Cabrerra and bring up Friedl. He cannot be worse than those two

    The left and right stuff is simply not working. Stay with a consistent line up

    Reply
  27. Doc4uk

    And one more thing. It sure seems as if Senzel and Antone were both misdiagnosed by the Reds medical staff. No one takes an entire season to recover from a meniscus tear and clearly Antone had the ulnar tear when he first went out . Perhaps a change is needed .

    Reply
    • Jim Walker

      I said here several days ago it seemed like there had been systemic failures with the handling of these injuries. However, I don’t think we know enough about the specific working relationship between the team and the medical staff to lay it off on one or the other.

      We don’t know what specific diagnoses were made or when. We don’t what treatment options were presented or who made the final decisions of which ones to pursue. We don’t know who was in charge of the rehab process.

      What does seem apparent is that once a clearance to begin baseball activities is given, the role of the medical staff was reduced to on call versus active involvement. But again, we don’t know the level of medical staff (vs training staff) involvement in making the beginning baseball activities decisions.

      Reply
  28. west larry

    The cubs, as bad as they are, have won seven in a row. The reds need to stop that momentum and get a winning streak of their own. I want the second wild card. We could win, and even if we don’t, it’s better than sitting on the sidelines and watching the wild card game, hoping that Bell gets fired. How negative is that? I think 60 percent of the blog is with me in hoping the reds get the wild card spot. Go reds!

    Reply
  29. SultanofSwaff

    The Reds are 3-7 in their last 10 yet are tied for the wild card. I’ll definitely take that. All you can do is hope the normal ebbs and flows of a season take over and the team gets their mojo back just when they need it most. If they do, we’ll sneak in.

    All that said, you have to put the team in the best position to succeed. Knowing Barrero and Greene and Moreta are in Louisville while Suarez and Cabrera give away outs and runs just stings. I guess there’s two ways of thinking on this—roster shuffling this late in the season is hitting the panic button and it will make for an angry locker room……….or, roster shuffling this late in the season is a shock to the system to get their attention and reinforce that this is a results business. Even if both are true, at least you can say you tried everything to get this team over the hump.

    Reply
  30. Grand Salami

    It’s seems everyone agrees the current configuration, with Suarez still an everyday fixture, has to change – and the vast majority prefer to see Barrero daily and then a combo of Farmer/Moose at third.

    I think it’s the message that the team needs.

    Reply
  31. Gary

    “Losing is simply not going to be acceptable.”

    Who said that? Bob Castellini, upon completion of his purchase of this franchise back in 2006.

    Reply
  32. Jimbo44CN

    JMHO but the worst move Bell made yesterday was starting Cabrerra at 1st base. He Olayed the ball in the first inning to get a guy on base and before you knew it Sonny had 2 on and no outs, Misssing a ball like that which should have been an out can take something out of a pitcher, especially on the first batter of the game! Cubs go on to score 3. He also Olayed another ball in the 4th? Terrible Idea to have him out there period. There was a reason he was released by another team.

    Reply
  33. Fanman

    The Reds need more speed. However, I don’t think it would make a huge difference. Bell is NOT aggressive with runners on base. Stealing bases, laying down a bit, squeeze plays, hit and run are all non existent. Larkin, almost daily, is vocal about putting pressure on the defense. Falls on deaf ears. Third base coach is very conservative as well. Very, very frustrating!

    Reply
    • Gary

      You are exactly spot on with those remarks. This team needs to be seriously infused with SPEED BURNERS and guys who CAN put down a good bunt. Also hitters with the ability to hit behind the runner on a hit and run, hitters who will willingly give themselves up to move a runner over to third, and hitters who can score the run from third base with less than two outs. This long ball or strikeout crap has gotten old and IS NOT the way baseball was intended on being played.

      Reply
  34. Doc

    Interesting to note that:
    1. Miami has a winning record at home
    2. Detroit is playing better than .500 ball since a disastrous start to the season
    3. The Cubs are over .500 at home
    4. The Reds hover around .500 at home.

    When “easiest schedule” assessments are made, I doubt these pieces of information are considered in the analysis.

    Reply
  35. Michael Green

    Outside looking in here, but CIN’s hitters are likely pressing. Winker brought a lot to the table and they certainly miss him, but one thing he certainly brought was an attitude of having fun. Plenty of guys and characters to carry that water but I think this is a combination of missing Winker’s intangibles and pressing. I have not looked at the numbers recently but I’ll bet good money that some hitters have forgot about taking a walk and passing the baton to the next guy. You see this time after time in the post season. Good pitching gets good hitting out due to hitters simply putting way too much pressure on themselves to perform in the moment. Walks and bloops are every bit as important as mashing right now – as always is the case. I’m still convinced that CIN will get red hot and carry that into the postseason.

    Reply

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