Sonny Gray allowed just one hit over 7-innings of shutout baseball as the Cincinnati Reds held on for a 5-3 win over the Miami Marlins thanks to homers by Tyler Naquin and Joey Votto as they moved to 10 games over .500.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| Miami Marlins (51-72) |
3 | 4 | 2 |
| Cincinnati Reds (67-57) |
5 | 6 | 1 |
| W: Gray (5-6) L: Hernandez (0-1) SV: Givens (4) |
|||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
The Offense
It didn’t take long for the Reds offense to get going. Tyler Naquin had a 1-out triple and scored on a Nick Castellanos double. Kyle Farmer would drive in another run later in the 1st with a sacrifice fly to make it 2-0.
The offense went quiet for a few innings from there, but got back to it in the bottom of the 5th. Still up by two it was Naquin getting things going again. This time the outfielder crushed a solo home run with one out. Castellnoas was hit by a pitch. Karma came around rather quickly as Joey Votto took the next pitch and put it halfway up the seats in right center for his 28th homer of the year to make it 5-0. That was the last time Cincinnati would score as they managed just one baserunner the rest of the way.
The Pitching
Sonny Gray has battled consistency this season, but on Friday night he put together his best outing of the year. The Marlins managed just one hit against Gray over 7.0 innings where he allowed two walks to go with that hit and have five strikeouts. He left the game with a 5-0 lead and turned the game over to Lucas Sims in the 8th. Miami liked what they saw in that pitching change. Alex Johnson walked to lead off the inning and he moved up to third on a Miguel Rojas double. Jazz Chisholm then hit a laser into the right field seats to make it a 5-3 ballgame on a long 3-run homer.
Cincinnati’s offense went quietly in the bottom of the 8th, leaving it up to Mychal Givens to hold onto a 2-run lead and seal the win. He would strikeout Brian Anderson to begin the inning, but Lewis Brinson doubled into the gap in right center to bring the tying run to the plate. Jorge Alfaro had what equated to a swinging bunt as he hit a chopper about 10 feet down the line that Tucker Barnhart fielded and fired to Joey Votto at first for the second out as Brinson advanced to third. With the crowd at Great American Ball Park on their feat Givens fired a 96 MPH fastball by Alex Jackson. A 97 MPH fastball followed for a called strike. After taking ball 1, it was another 97 MPH fastball and Jackson swung through it to end the game.
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
Miami Marlins vs Cincinnati Reds
Saturday August 20, 6:40pm
Zach Thompson (2-5, 2.91 ERA) vs Wade Miley (9-4, 3.00 ERA)
And another lightening fast recap by Mr. Gray!
I’ve got six games to cover (and 4 that I can watch)….. I don’t have time to mess around! Onto the Minor League games now.
I’m at my grand son’s birthday party , any reason why Gray left after 87 pitches, couldn’t watch game, need a little help understanding this move
Bell decided he was done and the margin allowed work for Sims. Not the best choice … but we pulled it back out after lighting a small fire.
Thanks
Sims has only pitched once in 8 days they said on the broadcast. They gotta get him in there so he can right his ship a little after being injured a long time. I know he gave up some runs but honestly he has to play to do well I feel like.
Sonny is a max effort guy with some injury issues this year He pours everything he has into every single pitch it seems. I think 7 innings is his ceiling for the rest of this year at least.
Saving pitches/ innings for on down the line. With a 5 run lead and 9 man pen there is absolutely no reason not to do this or that it should have gotten tense.
Pitching a complete game, even when possible, is a rarity today.
I was at the game. It appeared that Sonny was getting tired in the seventh. I was hoping DB would go to the BP.
The problem was Sims walking the first batter (where have we heard that song before?). The double was not hit hard, but went down the line where it couldn’t be fielded. The HR was crushed – Sims left a fastball in his wheelhouse. He rebounded nicely after a visit from DJ. Let’s hope it was a good tune up for Lucas; this team is going to need him.
Great win and it’s clear the ball players on this team give effort and want to make the playoffs. Front office and management gives off a different vibe…
Again No Barrero. Any hot streak he had is gone now with sitting on the bench. Same thing happened to Alejo Lopez.
Not sure why you take Sonny out with him going strong at 90 pitches. Clear you roll the dice with anyone out of the bullpen outside maybe Lorenzen.
Is Bell being forced by Bob to play at least one of Moose and Suarez? Literally either the worst position player and/or a bottom 10 position player in the MLB gets trotted out every night. Barrero and Lopez much better options. Bob can’t live with $25M on the bench. I truly believe that.
Having 9 relievers on this team some who pitch one inning a week.
Why isn’t the front office being clear about the Senzel situation?
I have faith in our players just wish I have faith our front office
Senzel has fluid build up on his repaired knee. Him in AZ at that facility makes sense. He may or may not be back and may or may not get a few games with L’ville if/when he’s ready.
Makes total sense to me. Put him at the best facility and get as much physical therapy as required.
Gray draws game 3 @Milwaukee next. Why not keep him fresh & string for that? Bullpen also needs to work
Sonny appeared to be done. See my post above. (I was at the game behind the Reds dugout. Sweet seats to get a sense of the game.)
Lucky man
Gray’s best performance this season, me thinks.
Impressive work by Gray today.
Givens is a great pitcher as well. With him and Lorenzen Reds BP is definitively upgraded.
This team is one spot short to aspire to everything. You know to what spot i am referring to
Front office is smugly enjoying this win. “Why should we change anything? We’ve won 2 in a row, and we are about to jump into a Wild Card berth.”
I said it before – this team may well make the playoffs despite management, not because of it.
Free Jose Barrero!!
Reminds me a little of Major League the Movie. Ownership does the bare minimum and somehow the team still manages to win.
Jay the Red, great analogy. Who is the cardboard cutout of in the locker room?
Thank you Gray and Givens. Great job! And look out Eugenio! Moose and Aquino have their targets set on that .172 BA of yours! They just might catch you yet!
Moose down to .203. The way he is swinging, he’ll “catch”Suarez for sure. If my math is right, he’s 1 for his last 31 ABs.
And yet he plays every game a right handed pitcher starts, and hits in the middle of the order.
Where else can you fail so miserably, and still keep your job?
Heck Suarez does better than that. He tends to go 2 for 10 sometimes. Sad how bad our 3b situation is currently. I keep hoping Suarez is going to find something he lost before. Sadly it has not happened.
LOL…weather forecasting
My enthusiasm for Aquino has lessened. Increasingly it’s a strikeout or a homerun.
And 19 times out of 20, a K. He needs to sit and bring up Shrock.
Who is Schrock replacing?
Reds are consistently getting 6+ innings from their starters. Which is really solid.
What, then, is the justification for carrying NINE relief pitchers, some of which almost never pitch?? A full 1/3 of your roster is taken up by guys who can only throw 1 inning at a time.
In what world does that make any sense at all?? Perhaps in the same world where you ask Jose Barrero to play CF.
You want to maximize the daily grind ability over the last weeks here to possibly overtake the Brewers while keeping every single arm on the staff from getting overfatigued
Over the last 3 weeks (July 30 through last night), starters have averaged exactly 6 innings, with them going 7 innings 8 times. The fewest was 3.1 on Aug 9 and 4.2 on Aug 15. I would have to agree that 9 relievers may be more than they really need.
I’m not sure how an extra IF to ride the bench helps either. I have no issue with 9 RP.
It’s more the issues of roster and contract control factors and lack of non DFA opportunities, plus ‘insurance’ for blowout situations, which thanks in large part to staff depth haven’t occurred that much … Brach & Hembree in particular both lost effectiveness due to overuse, sort of sacrificial lambs you might say. Right around sept 1 is when the picture for maximum postseason selection flexibility comes into focus
Only the Reds would take a top 15 prospect in MLB, who is a SS, which they desperately need, and have him shag files in CF….smh….they make well make the playoffs in spite of the consistent and questionable mismanagement decisions
All to keep Farmer at SS. Let Farmer get time in RF if you want him to play everyday, and let Barrero play SS.
The decision to play Moose or Suarez, and ONLY those two underachievers at 3B, the handling of Barrero, and the handling of the bullpen this season – adds up to baseball malpractice.
Love watching them win, but it is so frustrating watching management hamstring the team and give games away late.
What’s questionable about giving yourself the potential option of at the least a possibly elite late inning defensive CFer? Or a RH bat in CF vs LHP?
Because he’s the best defensive shortstop in the whole organization, and shortstop is a weakness on this team. Plus he’s swinging a hot bat, yet sitting the bench. Every single detail is questionable yet you cling to the tiniest of silver linings and try to spin it as ok. It’s objectively not. He shouls 100% be at shortstop and 100% be there now.
How do you know he is an elite CF? Do you have stats on that? No you dont, but he is elite SS with better range than Farmer. Put Farmer at 3rd for late defense. It’s amazing how people cant see the obvious.
you do understand the words ‘develop’, ‘potential’ and ‘option’? i personally don’t have to know anything except how to observe with common sense and applying non-fallacious logic. i’m also not a fan of mindless, repetitive kneejerk complaining because it’s a) boring and b) a bad look
how does this change his potential for actual use in the present for anything else? How do you think the option to even consider Farmer playing third enters into the potential to even be considered except for he’s the outcome of the very same process in the past? These are professional athletes and this is what they are paid to do, take advantage of their athleticism and skills for potential benefit of themselves and their team’s winning effort, both in the short and long terms. Lorenzen for example wouldn’t be pitching now if not for this extremely normal & common practice. As far as the current usage at the SS position goes, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” works as well as anything else at the moment …
Lol at the last sentence of that first paragraph
Watching Joey play at an elite level for an extended period of time at this point in his career is one of the most satisfying feelings as a fan I’ve ever experienced. His will to overcome age and doubters, himself included, is amazing. This run cements his HOF inclusion. He can still carry the team if needed. Keep going, Joey!!!
He is better than he was a decade ago because he has found his true self and has stepped up to lead beyond just what he personally does at the plate.
Truly remarkable.
Well said.
Absolutely agree. Watching Joey lifts the spirits. He’s playing better defense, too.
Reds have needed that for a long long time.Can’t help but think the performance of our young players has something to do with that.Not only performing but doing it with fire and enthusiasm rubs off and gets everybody including the fans going.
It is astounding to me that Votto has never won a Silver Slugger award. It would be amazing if he won his first at this stage of his career.
Jake Arietta to the IL. San Diego pitching trouble continues
I think moving Farmer to left or even better third makes more sense than Barrero to center. Heck, who knows with Bell and his decisions?
They may as well send him back to Louisville. He cannot help the team from the bench…and the pattern with young guys is sit and watch young stud……BTW can you play CF?
No, you want him on the 26 Sept 1 to be postseason eligible
Bring up Schrock for the next 10 days and let Barrero hit every day at AAA. Then on the 31st you bring Barrero up.
I’ve thought about this, a fan’s traditional right to gripe. It’s on robust display here at RLN, and that’s fine. I have a question, though: hypothetically, if you had a chorus of people who had never done your job and constantly complained that you didn’t know what you were doing and were stupid for not following their suggestions, would you be moved to take their advice?
It’s not that simple. On any level of baseball down to Little League you can play yourself out of a starting job. Suarez and Moose have gone way far beyond that. If you have no one else that is one thing, but you have promising young hitters who have produced when given a chance and then were promptly benched and sent back to the minors. 3B which should be a position of high offensive production has been almost a total zero. Something is not right in Reds Land and it should be apparent to the most casual Reds fan(I’m talking strictly about 3B here). Forget about money owed or someone’s feelings. We are in a playoff race and the number one goal should be to put your best team on the field in an all out(I repeat an all out) effort to win.
I certainly agree that they should field their best team, and Iike the idea of Farmer at third. But then I’ve never managed anything but little league, have not worked in baseball my entire life, do not know the players or the demands of management. And I certainly haven’t led a somewhat lightly regarded team with a bad bullpen and injuries to key players to ten games over .500 and relevance in a pennant race. I am free to complain about the lineup, but Bell won’t listen, nor should he.
@greenmtred
The situation with Barrero seems to share certain aspects of the Senzel situation. Are the left hand and right hand communicating is the simplest way I can think of to say it.
What sense does it make to bring Barrero up to sit when Schrock and Lopez are both viable alternatives off the bench? If they really need the backup shortstop on site as opposed to on call overnight (seeing as how they have Suarez to get them through an in game emergency), maybe Farmer would benefit from some downtime?
No way. I know everyone here thinks they’re right all the time, but thank God Bell doesn’t listen to yall or we’d be even worse off. I would really like to see Barrero more soon too, don’t get me wrong, but man am I glad he doesn’t go to the fans for advice.
Jim, I don’t understand the Barrero situation, either. My point wasn’t that he should sit but, rather, that I’m viewing this with incomplete information. The favored explanation with some here is that Bell is hopelessly stupid or doesn’t want to win, and this judgment is extended to include ownership/management. This may be true, but I find it unlikely. If the proof is in the pudding, 11 games over .500 is a pretty tasty dish.
They’re not using their optimal lineups and the 9 man bullpen isn’t working, but we all know the drill by now. I think its best to just enjoy the ride and not get too annoyed by things we cannot control like the Reds front office. Atleast they have scouted well and drafted well in the last 5 years or so. The plan does seem to be coming together.
I have to have a pet underdog or 2 or 3 in the organization. Max Schrock is definitely one. 2-4 w/a hr tonite. He can play 3B too. It would actually be nice if we went into Milw with no automatic outs in the lineup next week.
I was hoping that after the off day they would actually drop to 8 relievers given Krall’s remarks last week about getting through the 20 however many game stretch. But now that Hembree got claimed, they will probably not risk waivers the rest of the season.
They have to be fools to think Henbree wouldnt be claimed. That’s why they came up with a fictitious ailment for Brach. Teams are dying for relief pitchers. Romano gets DFAd and immediately picked up and he is atrocious. The Yankees picked him back up again. The Reds have better pitchers at AAA than these guys in back end of bullpen. They just dont want to use them. Plus how often can you use Garrett or Doolittle when you have 9 RPs. Guys in AAA can cover that 1 inning a week. Stop these garbage arms and field the best 26. Amateur hour in the front office.
I agree but it will come up again when we lose a game we shouldn’t lose.Bell gets hammered when he brings in a reliever that loses the game primarily because we feel he has better options or the pitcher has failed time after.Same for the position players but its tempered some because we are having our best year since I don’t know when.Guy goes 0-4 and we win is well OK but its not OK to do it like forever.The front office continues to settle for terrible performance from players because they are willing to settle for whatever.They don’t grasp that this team is being held back from being what they could be if the dead weight was cast aside.You right Indy we just need to enjoy the ride but the ride could be longer if the front office would wake up.
Per usual Pitching sets the Tone.
Vottomatic so fun to watch.
Cherishing it to the Max this time.
Love to see Barrero.
Feeling he will be Important at some Point.
Barrero just looks like a rangy athletic guy that got drawn up in a sports lab to play SS. He’ll get his chance eventually. Zack Cozart wasn’t a great player or prospect, but he had his moments. I remember when he was killing AAA, but Dusty just had to stick with Edgar Renteria for another month instead.
Yup agree with everything you said.
Do remember that.
All get impatient for him to play.
Even myself.
But realize he will be Needed at some Point.
Whether guys need rest or Injury happens.
Bryce Harper HR> Phillies up 3 0
Thank you Pirates and Nats.
Come on Phillies.
Down goes Milwaukee and St Louis
Equal to “down goes FRAZIER!”? Or are you old enough this makes sense.
I’ve witnessed in person Pete Rose assaulting the fabled Crosley Field terrace like noone else lol
oh I know
Also remember Bob Cousy as player-coach of the Royals
Yes
Looks to be a wonderful evening for the “Men in Red”
1. The Brewers lose to the Nationals
2. The Cardinals lose to the Pirates and
3. The Phillies lead the Padres 3 to 2 in the
Fourth inning
In the St. Louis/Pittsburgh game the Cardinals were shut out even though they did get 10 hits. The Pirates won the game 4-0 despite only getting 4 hits.
I think the MVP is down to Tatis, Harper and Votto. It will be answered by which team makes it to the playoffs.
You could say that about Harper and Votto maybe, but the only thing stopping Tatis from getting the MVP is probably injury at this point. Unless one of the other two just go bonkers soon.
Agree. Plus the coverage Tatis gets from media is so beyond what Harper and Votto get. MLB Network have a love affair with Tatis. He is great player but Votto is carrying his team to the playoffs while Tatis is not.
@JB: since I don’t watch TV, I don’t know about the love affair MLB network has with Tatis. Harper used to be the shiny new toy when he was with the Nats. I did watch the All Star game and thought Tatis was both very talented and, in the in-game interviews, came off as pretty likeable.
I’m hoping Votto can continue to “bang” and forces the voters to look closely at his impact on this team.
and the philllies hold it. We are in, if the season territory ended today
Padres have lost 4 straight and 8 of their last 1o with 2 more vs PHI chasing them and then 3 with LA, the 2 with the Angels.
The Cards have 6 more with the Pirates and Tigers x2 before the Cards come into GABP for 3 so will likely be ahead of SD by then also
Reds are still a half game back of the Padres at the moment. Like their chances as their pitching is all kinds of a mess right now.
Huh, they’re definitely both 67-57.
Beautiful baseball night. Reds win. Pads, Cards, Brewers lose.
Tied 67-57 with the Cardinals 3.5 behind and the Phillies 4
Moose is 4-36 with 0 homers since returning from the IL. He hasn’t had a hit since 8/11 and before that his only hits were his first game back. This is less productivity than we were getting from Suarez. Seems like it’s time to give Barrero a chance considering we are in a playoff race, and putting the best team on the field should be a priority. Farmer to 3b, Barrero to SS.
It seems like Barrero has a chance to hit the ground running and make an immediate impact, kind of the way India did. Am I off-base here? Should the Reds keep running Geno and Moose out there?
On phillies game:
“You need your stars to play like stars, and that’s exactly what they did tonight,” Girardi said.
The time is now or never for Geno / Moustakas
There’re seven weeks left in the regular season and the NL battle is limited to just the 2nd WC spot between Reds, Padres, Cards, Phillies & Mets. LA/SF, ATL & MIL look to be locks for the other four spots. The key for the Reds to clinch it and having the easiest schedule among the contenders, is to get Winker and Antone back as soon as possible. It’d help also to get some production out of the 3B, either from Moustakas, Suarez or maybe moving Farmer and let Barrero at SS. GO REDS!
Our offense is not our issue. Need at least 2 more pieces of our 9 man bullpen to step up with Givens and Lorenzen to really give ourselves a chance to advance. Only way that is going to happen is to pitch them when you have the opportunity.
Antone is back on Tueday. I think Santillan is the other piece. Wilson has been pretty good. Hoffman has been at least decent in long relief. I forgot all about Cessa. I think we will be fine if we can stay healthy from here on out. I disagree on the offense. Do something about 3B. It is just incompetence to keep doing what they are doing at 3B. Move Farmer over there and put Barreo at SS.
Alan I’m not opposed to easing Jose Barrera into the lineup but Major league pitching is a far cry from Minor league pitching and adding in the pressure of a pennant race could be a tough spot. If I had to guess Bell is really torn concerning Moose and Suarez. They are both players who have had a fair amount of success at the ML level. If he can get one of them to return to form for the last 7 weeks of the season it could be a big help as opposed to putting a minor league player who has had success at that level but not any at major leagues. Add into the fact that the offense is rated near the top of many catagories as is and it’s really a fine line. When I consider all the injuries and bullpen issues we have overcome to get to 10 games over 500 as well as competing for a playoff spot I’ll give Bell the benefit of the doubt. I certainly didn’t have this team anywhere close to this position when the season started. With the lack of support the front office has given him and all the injuries I give Bell a A for his season to this point
Jim, you have to be able recognize when a player just has aged himself out of production.. I am not talking about Votto bad in the past but total non production from these two over an extended period of time. That is part of being a good manager. It is not going to cost you a cent more to bench them both and let them come off the bench and pinch hit. We are stuck with them going forward. Now the plus side of doing so is that we can add more to our offense with Barreo even if he hits just .250(which I doubt). He is the SS of the future and the now. Farmer has done nothing but rock at SS but to get Barreo(the future) into the lineup and keep Farmer’s bat in the lineup, it is best to move him to 3B until that combo fails to produce. Now, let’ s address LF while Winker is out. The only explaination I can figure is to bring either Lopez or Schrock up, they would have to DFA someone. They would lose both AA and Akiyama if they DFA’ed them. There again we are stuck with an undeserving(not the best) product because of baseball’s rules. To sum that up, we are not putting our best out there at 3B or LF right now. 3B can be helped right now. LF because of roster spots and losing whomever we cut, not so much until Winker returns.
Jim, another point. Never be satisfied with where you are even if you are leading the division. Yes, we have done ok considering all we have faced this season but OK is not good enough unless we win the Word Series. There is always room for improvement and there should be a desire and drive for improvement. Votto is an excellent example. Pete Rose back in the day was another.
I am not opposed to easing Barreo in either. At this point I am opposed to easing Suarez and Moose out of the lineup. That should be immediate.
Alan we have done much better then Ok. Also Suarez and moose are not old by baseball standards. Getting one to revert back to form is not pie in the sky. Like you I would like to see what Barrera can do. Trying to do that while being in a pennant race is not a easy task.
If the Reds can win their next 5 the NLC is still in play
Totally agree. Revisit the Central after the Milwaukee series.
I was a teenager in 1964 and at Crosley Field on Oct 2, 1964, the night of the triple play which denied the Reds no worse than a tie for the pennant. So I can personally vouch that the NL Central could still be won by a different team than the Brewers.
Just checked the record and the Phillies were in first place, +7.5 games over the second place Reds after the games of August 21, 1964. The Reds and Phillies finished the season tied for second, 1 game behind the Cardinals who emerged as NL Champions. On August 21, the Cards were in third, a full 10 games behind the Phillies.
I didn’t stop to realize until after I had hit the “submit” button how eerily like the 1964 NL standings on this date today’s NL Central standings are.
Replace the Phillies at the top with the Brewers and the margin back to the same 2nd place team, the Reds, is the same as 1964. Cardinals are in 3rd as in 1964 and just 1 game further off the lead than they were in 1964 when they came on to win the NL Pennant.
Now, Reds have 53.6% chance of making play-offs and 49.9% probability for winning NLWC 2 spot according to FanGraph… The interesting point is FanGraph give the Padres only 33.9% to reach that spot so The Reds are frontrunners in this race as of today…Of course , in the statistical theory…
+100
One of the first things I checked this morning
Great performance by Sonny. Love watching Votto continue to step up and lead the team. Sims shaky but that’s what happens when you don’t pitch often due to having too many guys in the bullpen. #Free Barrero.
I would love for the Reds to be bold and put Barrero in CF.
If we don’t, we’re going to have Aquino or Shogo in the OF for as long as Winker’s out. That’s simply unacceptable.
Here’s our lineup:
India
Naquin (ride him here until he cools off)
Castellanos
Votto
Stephenson
Farmer
Barrero
Moose/Suarez
Man, I wouldn’t get up for a snack until we got to the 3B slot.
I would rather have Farmer at 3rd and either Shogo or Aquino in the outfield than have Moose or Suarez in the lineup.
I agree, JB. But that will never happen.
Austin Callahan hit a grandslam as well… He has 2 hits in 12 PAs , but these hits are homeruns… he has walked 2 times too…
Kid has a long way to go. Hope he is as good as advertised.
Love the season so far. Couldn’t be happier with the manager and the players right done to the last man on the roster. The entire team gives their all everyday. If I’m not at the park they are must watch TV.
I think it’s a prerequisite every Reds reliever walks the first batter they face.
I’ll be the lone outpost by continuing to back Moose at 3B. He’ll figure his swing out. We know Suarez isn’t going to hit at this stage of the season.
I really don’t think it’s Moose’s swing. His footing is still off because his bum foot isn’t quite right. In the field, he can move it more and take some strain off it. At the plate, it’s got to be in the “just right” spot for the swings to work. What I’ve seen is him not driving the ball which, I think, is the product of him still favoring that foot and that’s what’s screwing up the swing.
Somebody please weigh in with any tie-breaker rules, please.
If things ended right now, does that mean a play-in to the WC play-in game? That’s a challenge, but it makes setting up the rotation and such far more important.
The Mets are fading and they just took another hit. McCann is out for at least 10 days with lower back spasms. That’s hard on any athlete, but on a catcher that’s brutal.
How we come through the weekend and head into the upcoming Bernie series is now even more important. There’s still an outside chance we can win the NLC crown. But even if we don’t, the ultimate encounter with the Trolley Dodgers or the GI-ants is looming much larger. The Friars and their fans have got to be tasking the bitter pill of a long season and a truckload of money that may not produce anything.
Back at it in about 8 hours. Oh, and I LOVE the pre- and post-Abigail comparison of Joey Votto’s performance. You know he’s really taking that little lesson to heart in a big way.
yes Mark, if the season ended right now with no more games played the reds would face the padres for the WC2 spot with the winner facing the Dodgers. The reds need to win another one with the padres losing to gain sole control
right now i’d project the Phillies and the Cards both finishing closer to the Reds than the Padres eventually will based on their comparative schedules … with a caveat that the Reds take care of the Cardinals in the 6 head to head games they are scheduled to play …
it’s crazy to say we need a shortstop and to continue to pile on to Kyle Farmer. Barrios may end up being a better shortstop than Farmer, but how can people bash Farmer who continues to drive in runs almost daily and it obviously a clutch player. The answer to this problem is to play Farmer almost daily and work Barrios into the lineup. But how do we do this? We have an issue at third base. Can Farmer play third base? Sure he can. Play Barrios twice a week at ss and Farmer twice a week and third. That way you see what we have this year Barrios and Farmer is in the lineup almost daily. Suarez can play once a week. As for Moose he can’t play second (no range). He needs to workout and get himself into shape so he can contribute off the bench. He is slow with the bat and on the bases. Next year Farmer can be the super sub (playing almost daily) if Barrios is the player we think he is, we have a gem, until then he remains a prospect and a suspect. David Bell seems to have a plan.
Harold,
I like that perspective. We really don’t want to inject too much disruption at this point with the WC play-in and possibly the NLC title hanging in the balance over the next 1+ months. I actually think some time at 3rd for Farmer would give him the break his body needs plus allow us to see Barrero at the MLB level.
I still want to see more of TySteve which is a difficult thing with him vying for time against either Barnhart or Joey.
I tend to disagree that David T. Bell “has a plan”, at least not one that is blatantly obvious to the average fan. I think, as stated yesterday, he’s Dusty Baker 2.0 and so invested in the veterans and what he perceives as “clubhouse unity” that he gets tunnel vision to the bigger picture. But that’s just my point of view and I’m not paid for it or consulted in any way.
I’ve been debating about what I wish the Reds would do as far as Winker being out and Barrero.
After reading thru comments I finally figured it out
DFA Aquino,bring up Schrock.If someone claims Aquino good riddance
Move Farmer to third
All holes would be filled
Personally would rather see Lopez then Schrock, but it’s whatever. Aquino would 100% be grabbed. I think offering him to the Yankees at the PTBNL would make more sense. It doesn’t seem like they’re going to just sit both Moose and Suarez though. That’s the main problem us fans have.
>>>. It doesn’t seem like they’re going to just sit both Moose and Suarez though. That’s the main problem us fans have.
You got that right! By far and away our weakest point on the team is 3rd base. No excuse not to play Farmer or Barrero there. Right now the 3rd baseman is not only an automatic out, but it’s an automatic STRIKO OUT when we have a man on 3rd and less than 2 outs. I loved it when Larkin finally said last night that there is NO EXCUSE for not being able to put a ball in play in that situation. Anything but a strike out,..and that’s Suarez and Moose’s middle name.
I wouldn’t give up Aquino’s defensive skills and speed too quickly. He adjusted from a very open batting stance a year ago. Aquino needs further adjustment to become a more contact, meet the ball type hitter. At present, he seems too intent on homerun or nothing.
Defensive skills? Last wknd he caught a ball in shallow LF it took 3 bounces to get it home
He was terrible thru the minors and terrible in the majors.I’ll take Shogo’s defense any day of the week over him
I wish he’d go back to his earlier batting stance, when he was wide open and actually attacking the baseball. Now he’s much more defensive at bat. In any event,..if he does not learn to make contact, he should be sent back to the Minors or traded.
I seem to recall quite a few running catches and his arm is as strong as ever. Some people just gonna hate.
2019 AA had a .992 ops at Louisville. Yeah thats horrible
Over .800 ops career wise in the bigs and oh by the way…..he’s higher rated then Shogo defensively with runs saved per replacement. He saved Mahle 5 runs in Wrigley not long ago.
Wow cherry picking thru minor league stats yeah I can see why you have a crush on him
Cherry picking Aquino’s stats? Those are literally his stats from his last 2 years as a professional ballplayer
DFA Aquino? Sure, or let him be the Ptnl, SURE? He has a ton of value, and would never be a ptnl, let alone DFAd. If they do that, that would be the bonehead move of the year by the Reds front office.
Aquino isn’t doing much with his recent playing time. I’ve been defending his potential, but that only holds water for so long. If nothing else he’s a more well rounded Phillip Ervin that could come off the bench.
Aquino’s career OPS is such a misleading stat. He’s one player that you probably shouldn’t look at OPS for.
Couple of comments about Aquino…..
I have been an Aquino supporter all along too but also agree he needs to pick things up. His plate discipline seems improved overall but the word is now out he will take a strike early in the count to avoid chasing a bad pitch. The result is he is taking a lot of very good looking hitters’ pitches for strikes then having to try to battle back late in counts.
A lot of the pitches he is striking out on are actually quality pitches most hitters would struggle to handle. The problem is he is getting into counts where the pitchers have 2 or even 3 pitches to attempt to get it right to make him swing and miss. He has to get balls in play earlier in counts if they throw him strikes then.
Second point…. I do not agree that OPS means nothing in Aquino’s case. His current season OPS is virtually the same as his career OPS, which belies the narrative that he was a 2 month flash in the pan sensation who has done nothing since. An ~.800 OPS and an OPS+ and wRC+ both over 100 say he is a slightly better than average offensive player.
So, the reason I’m not the biggest fan of Aqunio is mainly where he sits in the lineup and what he does from that position. Sorta like 2019 Puig. Hit 3rd for a good majority of the year iirc. If you asked the fans, I’d assume most would say he was mad or right around average in a Reds uni. But if he were to hit in the same situations Aquino has been all year, in Aqunio’s 6 or 7 hole, I think Puig would probably have positive feedback from fans. (strictly in the sense of on the field.)
Aqunio just doesn’t fit into what the Reds need in that 6 and 7 hole right now. With Castellanos and Votto hitting 3 and 4, and usually the big gaping hole that is the 3rd base spot hitting 5th, Aqunio is getting a good amount of opportunities with runners on and he’s just been plain out bad at it.
Let’s compare him to the 2021 Reds’ fans biggest villian. Eugenio Suarez. I’ll also add Akiyama’s for comparison, but be warned that Akiyama doesn’t have nearly the amount of opportunities as either.
Naquin leads them both by a good margin also.
Productive out %
Suarez 24.4%
Aqunio 15.8%
Akiyama 29.4%
Base runners scoring %
Suarez 13.4%
Aqunio 9.4%
Akiyama 12.6%
Runner on at least 3 with less than 2 out scoring %
Suarez 41.9% (that one actually shocked me tbh)
Aqunio 21.4%
Akiyama 85.7% (6 out of 7)
No outs runner on at least 2nd scoring %
Suarez 47.6%
Aqunio 20%
Akiyama 25% (1 out of 4)
The only thing Aqunio has going for him in this regard is never grounding into a double play this year, but Akiyama also hasn’t. But useless pop outs and strikeouts are almost just as bad.
Moose gets a breather … https://www.mlb.com/reds/roster/starting-lineups
Yep and Barrero continues to rot on the bench. Send him down so he plays everyday.
I believe In order to be eligible for postseason a non-injured player needs to be on the roster sept1
Yes, but if you aren’t going to play them, it doesn’t matter if they are post season eligible. Start Farmer at 3rd but quit pretending he’s a better SS than Barrero. I saw somewhere that the Reds were considering trying Barrero in CF which is the height of stupidity.
Right, playing him after Sept 1 can’t happen and giving your team the versatility option of a potential elite defensive replacement in CF and/or a potential RH starter vs LHP is the height of stupidity
What makes an elite SS an elite CF?
The theory that everyone is a utility player is a loser. Did Larkin or Ozzie Smith lay CF? When did Votto ever play CF?
elite athleticism (speed, reflexes, skill level) … this is why i use the word ‘potential’ and why they are giving it the evaluation in practice … how do you think somebody like Farmer or Moustakas developed his skills at multiple postions? Team players are eager to develop expanded positional opportunities to benefit both themselves and their team
I doubt Farmer or Moose were ever considered elite SSs. Even as athletic as Senzel is, he struggled and was a long way from elite. To take the best SS prospect since Larkin and “try” to make him more versatile, is ludicrous. Tatis, Lindor, Baez, Story, Turner, etc.. the elite SSs play SS, because it is hard to find elite ones…
People always say do it like Tampa Bay. Well, Tampa Bay is in first in the mighty AL East. What did they do, brought up the young stud SS and put him right in the starting lineup.
i never said take the elite SS and develop him otherwise, i said take someone with “elite athleticism (speed, reflexes, skill level)” which applies to any position in various attributes … Barrerro happens to be #1 in that right now on this 26 in my estimation and there’s a crying lack and need for optimum situational defensive outfielders and upgraded RH hitting options in CF. Positional flexibility is not a bad thing either
What you’re doing is creating a “straw man” argument, basically admitting you can’t refute this argument on its merits and creating a false topic not in evidence and attacking that. Evaluating and possibly grooming a player for potential a) immediate playoff attainment and subsequent b) availability for strategic use is an organizational priority around the Sept 1 date and beyond. It might lead to an informed *option* to leave, say, Shogo or Aquino off any subsequent playoff rosters in favor of someone else that you might not otherwise have
My last comment. There is no “false topic”. The topic was Barrero to CF. My comments were and still are, good, common sensical run organization, do not take an elite SS talent and try to turn him into some utility guy. We all know that Bell will never leave Shogo or Aquino off any playoff roster. You can hear him say “they helped get us here, so they should be with us, or something like that”.
And Moose is sitting vs a RH pitcher to boot. It will be interesting to hear the Reds backfill on this (scheduled day off? Thompson tougher on LH hitters? etc).
On the other hand, I wonder if Moose will quietly be slipped back onto the IL by game time Sunday.
Pitchers just keep pounding the hard stuff up and in on his hands and he seems helpless to make any adjustments at this time
Not much press about Votto’s streak of 4 times cranking a HR following a Castellanos bean ball. Perhaps not yet as big a story as the 9 HRs in 7 games, but it’s definitely just as interesting and more hilarious. The energy in the air immediately before that first pitch to Votto was palpable!
They need to send Barrero back down, Bell is not the kind of manager who can handle a young prospect coming up and getting playing time. He is to worried about keeping everybody happy. Dusty was they same way and while those type of mangers can win, to some extent, the team will never reach its full potential and achieve great success.
I believe this is more of a front office dictate rather than strictly a Bell decision
Barrero has 7 PA in almost a week. Ridiculous to have him sit on the bench, while others flail away day after day…I bet he can hit .170
When Barrero got the call that he was going to Cincy, he probably thought, so much for my hot streak and playing time…I better learn CF
Why *not* make yourself more useful? Why *wouldn’t* he look at it as an opportunity to potentially increase his ABs? He probably thought hey more $$$ , bye bye to riding the minor league bus and hello to The Show! lol
Barrero sitting tonight means he plays tomorrow. No time for unknown factors. Barreros did try third in the minors and was not good. At least they are sitting Moose. I would take someone who runs into the ball once in a while rather than someone who never does. Aquino needs at least a hit or a walk today. Everyone who we needed to lose lost last night. At game 163 right now. Need to get sole control of the wild card. Other note. With Degrom out of the picture from his time on the IL. Does Miley have a legit shot at the Cy Young?
No on Miley winning Cy Young. Top 10 perhaps. Walker Buehler, Corbin Burnes and Max Scherzer would be my top 3. Then you have guys like Kevin Gausman, Brandon Woodruff and Zach Wheeler also having really good seasons. The 8-10 range could be where Miley sits.
Depending on what reference you use Miley situates quite well on various pitching WAR rankings https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/2021-pitching-leaders.shtml
https://www.espn.com/mlb/war/leaders/_/type/pitching/year/2021
Mahle #11 stylin’ the 4.1 looks tasty too
Saurez could use some live at bats heading into the Brewers series too. I’m thinking some more time on the IL (roster move for Antone) doing intensive full body PT and BP would benefit Moustakas and keep him eligible for potential postseason
@bee oops. I meant to reply my last made post to this. Not just in general.
I know … my posts seem to develop minds of their own as far as where they show up quite frequently too
Nobody is bashing Farmer, everyone is saying he deserves to play, the two 3B who cannot hit it of a tee right now is who people say should sit. “Barrero” shold be at SS, not CF and farmer should move to 3B. that would give them the best potential to be the best infield daily. I bet “Barrero” can hit .170
Apologize, that was a reply to thread further up, about Farmer bashing
WAR is a pretty bad stat when it comes to figuring out who should win awards. Pitchers have control when it comes to striking someone out and their WHIP for the most part. WAR can vary heavily. You also get a small boost if you’re a good hitting pitcher. Miley and Wheeler would be tied if not for hitting and that’s not really what Cy Young voting should be based on.