Max Schrock’s five hits and two RBI led the Cincinnati Reds to a 7-1 win over the New York Mets Sunday at Citi Field. By taking two of the three-game series, Cincinnati won their first series at New York since 2013.

Final R H E
Cincinnati Reds (56-50) 7 11 0
New York Mets (55-49)
1 3 0
W: Gutierrez (6-3) L: Stroman (7-10)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

Before today’s game, the mood in Redleg Nation was not optimistic, yours truly included. The starting pitching matchup seemed to clearly favor the Mets — stalwart Marcus Stroman vs. rookie Vladimir Gutierrez. On top of that, Manager David Bell’s lineup did not include lefthanded bats Joey Votto, Tucker Barnhart and Shogo Akiyama to face righty Stroman.

It looked like a game that shaped up as a very likely Mets win. But then we found out why they play the game on the field instead of on paper.

Gutierrez was lights-out, holding the Mets hitless over the first 4 2/3 innings while being ultra pitch-efficient. The only Mets run he surrended through seven innings was a solo homer by Jeff McNeil.

Max Schrock, who started for Votto at first base, batted 5-for-5, meaning over his last two starts, he has hit 8-for-9, raising his season batting average to .333 and OPS to .997. Schrock is the first Reds first baseman with five hits in a game since Sean Casey on May 18, 2005 in New York against the Mets.


This is the sign of a good team: Its ability to win games is not limited to its standout players. This Reds team has role players who can get things done and make things happen even against stellar competition. And allow me to suggest that they must find a way to keep Schrock around. He has options, so that makes him among the more likely players to be sent down when Moustakas and Senzel return. Until then, I would love to see him at least split time at third with Eugenio Suarez.

Another sign of a good team: the development and emergence of a player nobody was expecting to be a key contributor. Kyle Farmer had a run-scoring triple. His July batting line: .395 / .456 / .691 / 1.147, which nobody in their right mind would ever have predicted based on his slow start that mirrored his career norms.

And for a guy who prior to this year was best-known as a backup catcher, Farmer has been fantastic at shortstop. Prior to today, he had played 73 games at shortstop and committed only three errors. His .987 fielding percentage was second overall among major-league shortstops (behind only Kevin Newman of Pittsburgh). His range factor (RF) is 22nd, and his dWAR is 34th. He’s not Ozzie Smith in terms of range, but when he gets to the ball, you can count on him to make the play.

And another sign of a good team: rebounding from two very disappointing losses on this road trip. It can be argued that this should have been a 7-0 road trip to Chicago and New York had it not been for two losses snatched from the grasp of victory in the late innings. But you do have to give other teams some credit, and to finish a seven-game road trip 5-2 is very good at any time of the year.

Milwaukee defeated Atlanta, 2-1, today, maintaining their seven-game lead over Cincinnati in the NL Central Division. San Diego just got started against Colorado as this article was posted. With that result pending, the Reds are within 3 1/2 games of the Padres for the second Wild-Card berth.

The Offense

Schrock opened the scoring in the top of the fourth inning:

Then in the sixth, after a Jesse Winker double:

Tyler Stephenson brought home Farmer on a sacrifice fly for a 3-0 Reds lead, and later Gutierrez drew a bases-loaded walk from reliever Miguel Castro to expand the lead to 4-0.

With the score 4-1 entering the top of the ninth, the Reds blew it open on an RBI by Schrock on his fifth hit, and two RBI by Tyler Naquin on a bases-loaded double.

The Pitching

Gutierrez pitched arguably his best major-league start today, allowing only three hits (including the McNeil homer) and two walks over seven innings. He is another rookie who is playing a key role for a team that is contending for a post-season berth. He more than matched Stroman pitch-for-pitch.

Mychal Givens and Justin Wilson finished things up with a scoreless inning each.

For the entire game, Reds hurlers threw only 104 pitches. It’s my best guess that is the lowest one-game pitch count for Cincinnati pitchers for a very long time.

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

Minnesota Twins at Cincinnati Reds

Tuesday, August 3, 7:10 p.m. ET

Kenta Maeda (4-4, 4.40 ERA) vs. Tyler Mahle (8-3, 3.71)

228 Responses

  1. jazzmanbbfan

    Just kidding but did Joey Votto get Wally Pipped by Schrock today? I’m assuming none of us saw him doing that.

    And nice outing by Gutierrez. Nothing like keeping the pitch count low to help stave off possible bullpen meltdowns.

    • Reaganspad

      Gutierrez is our 4th best starter. Time for Mahle to move to closer.

      • Indy Red Man

        Nah…..he just needs to work on an out pitch vs righties. We have enough in the pen now

      • Reaganspad

        Which he does not have.

        Greene and Lodolo will move him out of the rotation soon.

      • MBS

        I’ve been on that train of thought for a while now. The Reds would be stupid not to pick up Miley’s option. Mahle is a good strike out pitcher, who doesn’t go long into games. Opening day 22, Castillo, Gray, Miley, Lodolo, Gutierrez would be my 5. With Greene taking the 1st spot opening from injury. I really don’t see how you can keep Mahle in the rotation, unless you trade one of the other incumbents.

      • Harold Morse

        They can get rid of grey anytime

      • JayTheRed

        I have to agree with you.. Your suggested rotation is pretty nice. I know Vlad has had a few slightly rougher starts so far but its the first year he has been called up to the big leagues so that is expected. I see a good future for this guy.

  2. Hanawi

    Brewers won so Reds just keeping pace. Need to start gaining some ground. Padres up already in the 1st inning. Still think the wildcard is the better chance for them to get into the playoffs. Can’t afford to blow the winnable ones like yesterday, but great rally to come back behind Gutierrez today against Stroman.

    • Redsvol

      Padres have 15 games in month of august and early sept. against 2 teams that have quit already – Rockies and Diamondbacks. We won’t be able to make up anything on them until september at earliest. We aren’t catching milwaukee – they have too easy a schedule.

  3. BatsLeftThrowsRight

    Good old fashioned Schrock and Roll whooping of the Mets. I’ve been screaming about how good this kid could be with his short compact stroke for months now. The clueless one finally decides to give the guy a chance. Bell is the worst evaluator of talent you can get. Clinging to Freeman has not been a great choice.

    • RedsMonk65

      Definitely impressed by what I’ve seen of his bat thus far….

      • Alan Horn

        I have been saying that. I really like Suarez but he should be in a rotation at best. When Barreo comes up my first choice at 3B would be Farmer. Then you have Lopez.

      • JayTheRed

        I remember back in spring training Schrock had a really nice spring and even before he got injure he was doing a pretty decent job off the bench.

    • Doc

      Schrock was on the IL, was he not? Could not have had Schrock instead of Freeman anyway until Schrock was recovered.

      • RedsMonk65

        Yes, until recently he has been on the IL for quite some time, and then rehabbing in Louisville. Freeman is the only player currently on the active roster who can play SS besides Farmer, which is why he is there at the moment.

        Still, Schrock, and the impending return of Senzel and Moustakas (and perhaps Blandino) will present some interesting decisions to be made….

      • Alan Horn

        It doesn’t matter. It would take an earthquake to get Suarez off 3B anyway.

    • Dennis Westrick

      Worse than Dusty (where’s my toothpick) Baker?

      • JayTheRed

        I didn’t think it was possible but your right…

    • Redsvol

      sheesh, he’s been on the DL for like 2 months. Schrock was getting regular playing time before he got hurt. I remember him having another great game just before he was injured.

  4. Melvin

    Thanks Tom,
    By the way Strato was fun and I appreciate it but this is better I’m sure you agree. 🙂
    Schrock can hit. Guti is already a good pitcher and will get better. Interesting what will happen soon with roster moves when everyone is healthy. Sounds like TJA will be the last to be available and that’s when it will be really hard to decide.

    • Tom Mitsoff

      This is MUUUCCCHHHH better, Melvin. 😉

    • RojoB

      Notice how Vlad doesn’t have to strike out 10 to pitch lights out?

      Mahle needs to take notes.

  5. John C.

    I think we know the starting third baseman for Tuesday. Time to give Geno a couple days off.

    • MBS

      I’m hoping Moustakes is the starting 3B on Tuesday, he went 2 for 4 today. In fact I would love it to be Super Tuesday, Moustakes, Senzel, Barrero, and Sims all seem ready to rejoin the Reds.

      • Doc

        Whom do you send down? You would have to send down four or DFA four, or some combination. As long as you want to play GM and list call ups, you should play GM and list who goes. Suddenly the job of Pseudo GM gets a bit tougher!

      • Melvin

        Moose for Freeman
        Senzel for Schrock
        Sims for Hoffman

        There is no room for Barrero right now unless you leave Senzel down. Schrock, as far as I know, hasn’t the ability to play SS so he’s stuck for now. Farmer may need an IL stint soon it seems but instead he just keeps on rolling and getting better.

        Don’t forget about Casty. He could be back very soon even Tuesday if he doesn’t go on rehab. Tough decisions on the outfield. Has to be Aki gone IMO. Could go down to 13 pitchers and cut Brach. Only problem with that is TJA will be back soon. Placing Aki on waivers is the only way to go if you want to keep all of the pitching. I wouldn’t mind Doolittle or AG being gone but I doubt that’s going to happen since they are LH especially since Bell loves that.

      • MBS

        Sims for Doolittle (DFA)
        Senzel for Freeman
        Moose for Schrock
        Barrero for Brach (DFA)

        That would get us back to a 13/13 split. I dislike having a short bench, and Brach and Doolittle have done their best, but are not good enough to be on a playoff team.

      • Redsvol

        none of our rehab guys are ready – let them get another series under their belt. And Senzel, I don’t know why you would even call him up. Its clear he isn’t better than Naquin or Aquino this year. Let him work on getting better instead of anointing him with a starting position.

      • MBS

        @redsvol I wouldn’t make Senzel a starter. He’s my utility guy, back up SS, 2B, and CF.

    • Alan Horn

      Won’t happen. Lopez sat after his great performance.

      • LDS

        Right the Lopez rule applies here. Schrock is bound for Louisville in a few days. And the Geno rule keeps Moose on the bench unless he displaces India which would be incredibly Bell like. Senzel? Maybe some CF. We’ll see but Bell’s history favors the bench.

      • Tomn

        Moose for freeman.
        Senzel for Aquino
        Sims for Hoffman

        Maybe we trade for another really good reliever? Package Aquino, Hoffman, Freeman …?

      • JayTheRed

        @Tomm, No more trades are possible until after the last out of the world series. Players from other teams can only come from the Wavier wires and I don’t believe teams can pull them back anymore. Someone know the rule on this?

      • Jefferson Green

        Basically, no more trades this season (players have to pass through waivers). Aquino has no options left, so you lose him if you take him off the 26 man roster.

  6. dhmorgan

    Just my bad luck that the cable video feed in NC had so many glitches that I couldn’t watch until the 9th inning.
    So the problems have been fixed and I’m able to watch the post game show and can see some of the good play that I missed.
    Congratulations, Reds, on a solid win.

    • Yerisdad

      I was having them in Dayton, Ohio on Spectrum’s service! ?

      • Jimbo44CN

        Spectrum was awful today here in Cincy.

      • Alan Horn

        Spectrum is awful in Alabama most everyday and is very over priced.

      • Jim Walker

        BallyOhio app streamed fine via Spectrum Internet here near Dayton, OH. But we have been having some intermittent pixelation and freezing on their traditional cable the last week or so. But nothing sustained or of duration more than a minute or 2.

    • RedFuture

      Hey I had the same issue and I am in NC and with Spectrum also. This team has been fun to watch and I agree that roster decisions are going to become tough. I love the thought of having Shogo around but he just doesn’t measure up hitting wise. I don’t suppose he has minor league options. I know that’s about 8 Mil in salary. Is the September roster 28?
      1) Moustakos for Freeman
      2) Senzel for Okiyama
      3) Sims for Doolittle
      4) Castellanos for Schrock
      5) Save Antone for Sept expanded roster

      • Melvin

        If TJA is ready before then I doubt we can afford to save him for September. He’s too good and too much on the line.

      • Bet on Red

        You all are going about this the wrong way. Just trade put IL stints

      • Redsvol

        plenty of guys with options remaining this year – Krall brought in guys with options whereas Williams often didn’t put much thought into this.

        Players Schrock, Freeman, and Naquin all have options.
        Pitchers Wilson, Givens, Gutierrez, Doolittle, Garret, and Mahle all have options. None of them would like it but if they manage it toward end of september their stay down could just be for a few days until rosters expand Sept. 1st. A starter might not even miss his regular start.

  7. Bet on Red

    This time next week the worst the reds should go is 5-1, two completely defeatable teams here with the gutted twins and the gutted Pirates coming up. Healthy players. Looks like Moose is played eight today so he is close

    • RedsMonk65

      So, it’s important that the Reds don’t let their guard down. Remember the D-backs. They smacked us around pretty good this year.

      • Chad Jones

        In fairness, the Reds played the D-backs in April when they were playing halfway decent. They were 15-13 on May 2 and have been 18-59 since then. The Twins and Pirates aren’t playing good right now, and as you mentioned, both have been gutted. The Reds have to pounce now!

      • JayTheRed

        Just got to win each series at the minimum. Sweeps sure would be nice though.

    • VaRedsFan

      Playing out games on paper is never a good idea. Look what happened to the Mets today. They should have won by 5. Assuming a 5-1 record against anyone is very shortsighted.

      • Jim Walker

        I did a series by series projection at the All Star break and came up with the Reds right on 90 wins for the season.

        I did NOT track total wins as I did it. I gave the Reds no sweeps for or against and split the 4 games series even except the one each with the Pirates and Marlins in which I gave the Reds 3 wins in both.

        After being swept by the Brewers the Reds were -2 against the projection. By winning 5 of 7 on this road trip they are right back on the projection.

        90 wins may not be enough to get the Reds into the playoffs but projecting them to reach 90 wins from their current position is not pie in the sky or voodoo magic.

      • doofus

        Reds would have to go 34-22 (.607) to reach 90 wins. With both Wild Card teams most likely coming out of the West, the Reds will just sniff the playoffs, falling short of the finish line. There are too many holes in this roster.

        The front office did not do enough to reinforce this roster for the playoffs this season (during the off-season or in season). They only did enough at the trade deadline to maybe ensure a winning season and put a few more fannies in the seats at the GABP.

        As Bob C. proclaimed: “As partners in other successful baseball organizations we know how it’s done.

    • jon vera

      i think that also but the pirates just took 2 out of 3 from the phillies.

      • Jim Walker

        Jon> Understand what you are saying. It is up to the team to set and play to their own standard and not play to the level of the competition. The Reds winning % of .585 since June 1 is an indication they are evolving to their own standard (knock on wood).

        Also, no doubt any given baseball game can be decided by the whims of luck or a fluke play. This is why I avoided casting any sweeps and went only 3 of 4 to the Reds favor in the 2 series it would not be off the wall to have given them sweeps. There were also several two consecutive 3 game series where my feeling was that the Reds were most likely to go 3-3 versus 4-2 or 2-4. In these cases, I cast them as winning one and losing the other.

        I am almost as interested in how my projection falls in with reality as the bottom line! 😉

  8. TR

    What a picker upper after yesterday’s downer. A big win thanks to great pitching by Vlad and hitting by Schrock.

    • JayTheRed

      Look out Suarez even has a hitting streak going lol… Dude needs to get more than 1 hit a game though.

  9. KYpodman

    Reds went 5 – 2 against Baez this week!!!! (though, he did not play in all the games, just sounds great)

  10. Arthur

    They have to figure out ways to string wins against poor teams.
    Winning 2 of 3 isn’t good enough any longer, especially against teams that depleted their talent pool at the trade deadline. We need to run off a winning streak and put a little pressure on the Padres and the Brewers. And next week looks like a really good chance to do just that.

    Sadly, although it was really nice to win today, you have to admit – we should be on a 6 game winning streak right now.

    • Doc

      They won 5 of 7 ON THE ROAD, and two of three of those were against a division leader in their ball park. That is excellent play.

      The Reds are 6 above .500, and 6 above .500 on the road. They are taking care of business away from GABP, but playing just .500 ball at home is the difference between where they are and where they could be. Hope they can turn that ship around on a dime.

  11. Indy Red Man

    I think the organization has more talent now then maybe since the Nasty Boys era. Of course Votto, Bruce, Cueto, BP, etc were very good, but they’re deeper now imo. Atleast if 2 of the 3 stud minor league pitchers make it.

    Add Vlad & Schrock to the young core. Move Schrock to LF vs righties and Jesse to RF.

    I also think Nick C. will look at this young talent and decide he wants to be a part of it moving forward. I upgrade resigning him to 75%! His road ops isn’t that great and I doubt anyone is offering up $125 mil/5 or anything. Gabp fits him perfectly! You can hit cheap HRs in any direction and he doesn’t have to cover a ton of ground in RF. Lets resign him!

    • wkuchad

      The great thing is, beside possibly Nick C., everyone that we would want back next year is back.

      This year has been a lot of fun, but I have hope for the next several years too, especially with the breakout performances of some of our rookies and several players nearly ready in the minors.

      Go Reds!!

      • Doc

        They don’t have to resign him; he is already signed for two more years. It is his choice to stay or go. The past week or so says that though he might be nice to have, they can win without him. Don’t mortgage the farm. Reds gave him $64MM guaranteed, and gave him two opt out years at the front end. They have kept their end of the bargain. They have built a team that gets more competitive every day. They have shown NC that they are building to win, which is what the two opt out years were covering. Now NC needs to decide whether he keeps his side of the contract. I wish him to stay, but I don’t up the ante. He sure as heck would not be coming in negotiating for less had he bombed!

      • wkuchad

        I actually strongly agree with this.

        It will be an interesting offseason.

      • Redsvol

        love what both of you said. But NC is a Boras client and he is opting out.

    • John Bailey

      You don’t need to resign him, the Reds have a $16 mil option on him in each of the next two years. Nick has the option to leave or stay and the decision is Nick’s not the Reds.

  12. RedsMonk65

    Good win all around.

    Kudos to Gutierrez, Schrock (and Farmer and Naquin, who had some key hits and RBIs).

    Who woulda thunk at the beginning of the year that quartet would factor so much in a Reds victory?

  13. Brad

    Why is Mike Freeman on the roster? Seriously, what does he bring to the table?

    • burtgummer01

      Guys like Freeman,Aquino and a couple out of the bp need to just go away

      • Yerisdad

        Aquino is just fine. He had two nice Sac flies two nights in a row in a pinch hitting role. I doubt his numbers will ever be that great without consistent pt, but he’s always a hr threat off the bench and a nice injury fill-in IMO.

      • MBS

        AA is a lock to stay, he’s more appealing than Senzel to be frank. Freeman will be gone once Senzel or Barrero is called up.

    • Melvin

      Backup SS for now….but not for long I expect. Aquino go away? I don’t think so.

      • TR

        I’d like to see Aquino have a little better pitch recognition.

      • Melvin

        Yeah. He IS walking more though but what he needs most is playing time as much as possible in order to get comfortable and improve. Look at what that’s done for Farmer. AA has much more potential.

      • Tomn

        Aquino isn’t hitting much but he has made some excellent plays in RF. All the same I think he will go to AAA, assuming he has options.

    • Alan Horn

      Because he is the only one on the roster beside Farmer who can play a decent SS. When Barreo comes up he probably goes down.

    • Jim Walker

      Freeman is there because they view him as a more palatable backup SS option than anyone else currently available. If Senzel is activated and Freeman sticks around, we know all the talk about Senzel playing SS has been smoke and mirrors.

  14. LGR

    4-5 game for Lopez followed by a sit for the next week. 3-3 with 2 walks for Stephenson followed by a sit the next day. 5-5 for Schrock followed by a .. call down to the minors? Can’t wait to see it. Freeman’s the obvious choice to go for Moose. I’d say Akiyama is the obvious one for Senzel but Schrock has options so..

    • Hanawi

      Yeah, Akiyama and Doolittle are the two after Freeman that seem like the best choices. However, Reds would have to eat the salary on both of those guys, which makes it unlikely they will let them go.

      • TR

        Akiyama could be the player to be named to the Yankees with the Reds picking up half of what is owed Shogo.

      • Melvin

        I’d like that but from what I’ve seen in the past and from what Doug said that’s very unlikely to happen. If that were true I kind of doubt he would be playing. The Reds wouldn’t take a chance on losing the opportunity of dumping that salary if he got injured. Also, if that were going to happen I would think he already would be gone.

      • RojoB

        @TR I don’t see why the Yankees would want him?

        But yeah if they did that i’m all for it

      • Alan Horn

        If Akiyama was going to the Yankees, he probably wouldn’t be playing as much as he is without much production. Unless, the Yankees want him to play out the season with the Reds to reduce the money they have to pay him. I think he makes 7 million per year so they would save roughly 3 1/2 million. Plus, the Yankees needed to shed salary this season to add the ones they traded for. So it could make sense.

      • LGR

        I think Doolittles gone no matter what so they could decide to DFA him along with Freeman when Moose and Senzel come back. Then you can see how Schrock does until the relievers come back to see what you do with everyone else.

    • Alan Horn

      You got it. You never sit someone in any sport who is hot as a firecracker. You go with the hot hand until it cools off.

      • RojoB

        Which is why Votto sat today

        Since the loser didn’t even hit a HR yesterday, he’s obviously cooled off and had to go

        Am I doing this logic-ing right? I’ll have to call David Bell and ask

      • Alan Horn

        Votto is 37 years old and needed a rest. Votto and Suarez’s situations are as different as night and day. Plus, I meant Schrock should be playing 3B until he cools off. Not 1B. Replacing Votto was a one day thing with Schrock earning playing time at the weak link in the lineup which is 3B. Thanks anyway for trying to twist my words.

      • RojoB

        I wasn’t really twisting your words so much as cheap shotting Bell. No offense to you

        I totally agree that Schrock should play 3B in place of Suárez until he plays worse that Suárez already is playing.

      • Alan Horn

        Sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant and maybe didn’t make myself clear that you find the hot hitter a place to play at a position he can play which is the most vulnerable team position(i. e. 3B at this time for the Reds). Of course they could be lined up for that position. Lopez, Farmer, Schrock as well as Suarez.

    • greenmtred

      You do notice that Stephenson is getting a fair amount of playing time and is playing very well. A guy going 5 for 5 or 4 for 5 is unlikely to do it regularly. Regression to the mean, it’s called. You look at their body of work and, unless they’re someone like a young Joey Votto or Ted Williams, you understand that a sudden turn towards brilliance is unlikely.

      • Alan Horn

        I agree but Lopez and Schrock have not been given a chance. I agree they would surely fall to the mean(middle) which would still be much better than Suarez. It hurts me to say that about Suarez because I like him for his past performance and service as a Red. He seems to be a fine person and teammate.

      • LGR

        You should let them fall back the mean instead of never letting them get a chance to prove that it wasn’t just a fluke and that they can still get a few hits a game pretty consistently. Obviously 5 hits a game isn’t realistic. Heck, Votto’s never done it. But if you can average a hit or 2 a game instead of 0-5 with 3 strikeouts a game with a occasional homer, I’d take the more consistent hitter any day.

      • LGR

        Also, in Schrock and Lopez’s cases, they don’t really have a body of work. They’ve never had a chance to build one really. You can’t make one with a random start once per week and a occasional pinch hit.

      • greenmtred

        I certainly agree that promising young players should get playing time, but it means–unless an injury is involved–sitting a starter, so it isn’t always simple. I should have clarified: body of work has to include minor league performance for a young player.

    • Jim Walker

      Here is something to chew on. Technically, Akiyama is option eligible. He has 1+ years of MLB service time and 3 available options per Fangraphs. Unless there is a provision in the transfer agreement or his personal contract, It doesn’t appear he has the right to decline an option (and to do so if he does that right might cost him the money still due in from his contract).

      Might the Reds option him to AAA to “park” him until the offseason when they could be able to make a deal to get off the hook for some of the $8M due in 2022? I’m thinking maybe a Japanese team might take the contract with a reasonable discount that would still save the Reds several million $$$. Or there is always the traditional MLB salary dump trade route.

  15. docproc

    Happy to eat crow about sitting Votto for Schrock today. I was a critic and admit that it turned out great.
    Not exonerating Bell for horrible pitching decisions, but today he got this lineup decision right. Hope Wally Pipp enjoyed the day off.

    • RojoB

      Could not max Schrock have gone 5-5 while playing 3rd base with Suárez sitting in time-out?

      I’d Schrock rocked Stroman, today, what may have Votto done on top of it?

      Moot point but the idea is that there are better ways to use the talent on the roster than Skipper chooses

      • greenmtred

        I’m as mystified as you are about Suarez, RojoB. Do we believe that playing him so much is Bell’s decision?

      • RojoB

        Not sure who’s decision it is, but it’s beyond ridiculous, his recent 2 game red hot hitting streak notwithstanding

      • RojoB

        One more thought…if Krall or Castellini or whomever is dictating that Bell play Suarez–why would Bell want a boss like that?

      • Alan Horn

        Agree. But at 37 Votto needs a day off all along whether he admits it or not.

      • Alan Horn

        I think it is the owner who dictates Suarez play. Suarez is well liked and the owner wants to look good for giving him the large contract. That is just a guess on my part however. No manager wants to play a player who is non productive long term because it helps make him and the team look bad.

      • Melvin

        I would say that if I’m David Bell and it IS the owner, I would think long and hard about my integrity and reputation. Either I’d replace him or if I had to play him I would make it well know to everyone that it is the owner making me do it. Put the responsibility on Big Bob and let him answer for it. Bell would gain much respect in Reds land and around the league. Much more respect than he’s getting now. Besides, his money is guaranteed at least through this year. Now, judging from the way I’ve seen Bell do things, I doubt seriously that he doesn’t have a lot of the say in what’s going on with Suarez. So I say to Mr. Bell. If I’m wrong about that,…show us. Besides, I can’t see the situation not changing anyway with Moose and Senzel both coming back. India isn’t going anywhere. I don’t think even David Bell would mess with that.

  16. west larry

    off topic, but what if we put unconditional waivers on Suarez and Moose. The claiming team would have to pay the remainder of the contract. It could happen. The angels owner did that about ten years ago with a player who was owed more than Moose and Suarez combined.

    • RojoB

      Nothing to lose is there? Shogo too?

      • Alan Horn

        Agree on all 3. Schrock or Lopez(if recalled) could pick up some playing time at 3B and in the OF (except CF but Senzel is returning).

    • VaRedsFan

      Teams do that all the time.. Nobody picks up those types of players because of the money owed. They also can’t use such waiver claims on playoff rosters

    • greenmtred

      Bell might not, but jobs managing MLB teams aren’t plentiful, and he’s finally a got a pretty good–albeit somewhat incomplete–team. I don’t see a way that it benefits Bell to play Suarez, since managers regularly are looking for new jobs and are evaluated on wins and their contributions to wins. I’ve got to believe–with no more evidence than anybody else has–that he’s being told to play Geno. Geno is, despite it all, managing to produce some runs, but he’s often painful to watch. But I also note that Aquino, who is a bit of a darling here at RLN, isn’t really hitting much better, and minus one month, doesn’t have an impressive baseball c.v.

      • Alan Horn

        True. AA is getting a chance to prove himself and the jury is still out. I alluded to above that I think Bell is being told to play Suarez. If so, that shouldn’t happen. A manager has to be allowed to manage or he is a puppet and not a manager. I have seen that kind of interference all the way down to the high school level and below. It can be a principal, board member, Athletic Director, influential parent or booster. When Nick Saban came to Alabama he first demanded all boosters and bosses remove themselves from running or having any ties to the team. He may be the only coach in the U. S. with the power to demand that.

  17. Old-school

    Reds won 5-7 on the road against Cubs/Mets and beat Stroman- a really good pitcher. Bell drives me crazy with his bullpen use but I’m going to credit him for not getting distracted with the Baez garbage.

    Baez is going home knowing the Reds beat his 2 teams twice in a weeks and for that matter all year. That’s how you win and give Bell credit for focusing on the team success

    Also give credit to Vlad and Farmer and Schrock. Fun time to be a Reds fan.

    Go Reds!

    • scotly50

      The Reds have played 500 ball since all-star break. They really need consistency the next month.

    • Alan Horn

      Bell does a lot of good things as well as a lot of bad things.l

      • west larry

        Sad but true. I like the guy as manager of the reds, but he has made some poor decisions, especially with the bullpen-although in fairness he didn’t have a very good bullpen with the injuries and all. now it’s going to get a lot better with the trades and players healing. Go reds!

  18. Arthur

    I think Freeman is the only guy on the team at this moment, aside from Farmer, who can play SS. I suspect that is part of the reason Senzel was taking ground balls at SS on his rehab. Not to replace Farmer, but to fill the back-up SS spot and allow the team to release Freeman. Schrock isn’t going anywhere – he is a solid utility player and pinch-hitter. When Castellanos comes back, it will be interesting to see what happens with the OF. Assuming Senzel is playing CF, the team would need to get rid of at least 1 OF. I doubt it will be Shogo – AA is likely the odd man out.

    Team has 8 relief pitchers. Honestly, they don’t need that many, especially if 2 or 3 of them show they can actually retire major league hitters. The 3 new guys, along with Sims, and hopefully Antone, would make a pretty decent core of a bullpen right there. Add Tony Santillan, and I think they could run with those 6.

    • Melvin

      By my count they have 9 relief pitchers. Sims will replace Hoffman. TJA will replace Brach. I doubt they get rid of any of the rest. None of them have options and they are all valuable in their eyes at least. If they get rid of AA instead of Aki to save some money they will regret it for a long time. If Bell has his way they probably will. Who know’s what they will do?

      • John

        Getting rid of AA over Akiyama wouldn’t save money, Shogo is making 7 mil AA a lot less.

  19. Bet on Red

    everyone here is missing the point with the DFA talk. Its simple enough, you just send your non-performers to the IL with their ” omygoshisitbroken” injury. Put the active man back on the roster and then turn around and take them off the IL when someone else gets injured. That’s after you DFA the few you need too and option those you can

  20. SultanofSwaff

    6 weeks ago in Milwaukee I stood behind Stevenson while Gutierrez warmed up before his start. Not once did he throw a change up, rather he would use a slow 12 to 6 curveball in place of his slider occasionally. It’s no coincidence the best start of his career was the same day he featured a traditional change up. I had him pegged as a bullpen option because he didn’t have that legitimate third pitch but now I’m not so sure!

    • Indy Red Man

      Good catch! He threw some nice changeups today. Mahle is another one. He’ll throw a beautiful changeup at 84 mph or something once in a blue moon, but mostly its just slider to righties and splits to lefties. He needs to trust the changeup. It looks like Lorenzen hasn’t just been lifting weights. His changeup is very good now and has alot of run to it.

    • Jim Walker

      Derek Johnson is reported to also having him work on a sinker. They’s spend effort on anyone if it would help the team; but, I think they really like Gutierrez character and make up.

      • doofus

        I am also impressed with Vlad. I hope I did not jinx him.

  21. Roger Garrett

    Great win today.It will be very interesting as players return.The really good thing they are better then what we now have on the roster and thats really important because Bell uses everybody.Reds have a good young core and I agree lets add Schrock not just because of today but because I didn’t know he was 26.I thought he was in his 30’s.Reds have depth in pitching down on the farm and Lopez and the young short stop maybe here when the roster expands.Good time to be a fan even if we fall short this year.Lost one last night that well adds to the ones we shouldn’t have and I really don’t want to see anymore this year.

  22. kevinz

    Series Win is the key.
    Should have been a sweep.
    Now hopefully day off does good
    And not kill roll on right now.

    • JayTheRed

      Yes I know the players need a little rest during the long season but I worry players come back from days off and just don’t perform as well.

  23. J

    Please let the record reflect that I don’t think Bell made any blatantly wrong decisions today aside from resting the hottest hitter in baseball the day before an off day. Unlike so many other games, he deserves credit today for not making any in-game moves that significantly hurt the team’s chances. Let the record so reflect.

    • wkuchad

      No way to call resting Votto at his age “blatantly wrong” – Bell has always liked liked resting veterans right before or after an off day. Votto hasn’t had an off day since the allstar break.

      • J

        Yes, it’s blatantly wrong to pick THIS day to rest Votto. Facing a tough right handed pitcher the day before an off day is a day to PLAY your best lefties who hit right-handed pitching.

      • J

        Also, guys Votto’s age aren’t usually setting franchise records for home runs. When someone looks as healthy and strong as Votto has looked the last couple weeks, you don’t worry about how old they are.

        This is one of Bell’s biggest problems — he sticks to a “formula” and ignores what’s actually happening on the field. Bell has decided Votto needs two consecutive days off, so he’s going to get two days off no matter WHAT. It’s just dumb.

      • greenmtred

        That’s a hard argument to make, J, after a 7-1win in which Votto’s one-game replacement went 5 for 5. I’m doing what I criticize: judging decisions in hindsight, but you and I have no idea what Votto’s condition is right now, and it’s a long season: resting players–particularly aging ones–is very important.

      • J

        There was a very easy way to play Votto AND his replacement, which was to play Shrock at one of his normal positions, i.e. third base.

        It’s true that I don’t know how Votto is feeling, but I’ve seen countless examples of players saying “I don’t want a day off” and the manager giving them a day off anyway. Do the managers know more about the player’s condition than the player himself? No. They’re just locked into their own personal philosophies, theories, and hunches, which I believe are usually based on no real-world data. Bell was supposedly “protecting” Antone by limiting his pitches, and we see how that worked out. Meanwhile, other guys who pitch a lot more than Antone did are fine. There is no real science to any of this. It’s mostly just hunches. So my feeling is that you ignore your hunches when you’ve got a a lefty who just set a record for home runs and you’re facing a tough right handed pitcher. Unless Votto asked to sit, which I highly doubt, he should have been in the lineup rather than Suárez.

      • greenmtred

        People who know more about the game than I do have noted that players are usually very reluctant to admit that they need a break. Partly because they’re so competitive? Partly because they know about Wally Pipp? The trouble with some of the narratives about Bell’s decisions is that they would depend either upon him being really stupid and knowing little about the game and his players, or being intent upon doing what he can to make the Reds unsuccessful. For a number of reasons–just one of which is the Reds outperforming their predictions–I don’t find either possibility compelling at all.

      • J

        Since it’s incredibly easy to point to many decisions Bell has made that objectively decreased the team’s odds of winning (most recently, replacing Hembree with Doolittle to pitch to a guy who hits lefties better than righties), I have absolutely no faith in his ability to always do what’s in the team’s best interests. He may THINK he’s helping the team win with all his “strategic” moves, but he’s often doing the opposite.

        That said, I’m not opposed to the idea of giving Votto a day off here and there. What I’m opposed to is picking THAT day to do it, when he’s been on fire and looking about as healthy as he’s looked for years, facing a tough team on the road with a tough right-handed starter. Why not rest him against a lefty starter? Why not rest him against the Twins at home? I just don’t believe Bell has a crystal ball that informs him Votto will be better off resting on Sunday than Tuesday. Can you cite any evidence suggesting Votto’s day off couldn’t have been tomorrow rather than yesterday? What do you think Bell can possibly know about this?

      • greenmtred

        J, you make a good case for Hembree instead of Doolittle, but it’s not objectively right (or wrong) because we can’t know what would have happened if Bell had left him in.

      • Melvin

        Have to remember Votto is used to playing every day and already had an entire month off. I doubt he’s exactly worn out. He’s said before he’s at his best when he plays every day. You might recall he was somewhat hot before the AS break and got off to a slow start for a few games after.

      • greenmtred

        Missed the second point in your comment: no, I have no more evidence than you do. But Bell, unlike either of us knows and talks to the players,coaches and trainers, so I suspect that he has more information than we do. There’s never a good time to rest a key player because there’e never a game you want to lose. But you have to rest him anyway.

      • J

        It’s a mistake to judge managerial decisions by the outcome. Even if Doolittle had gotten the last out and the Reds won, it was still objectively a bad idea to bring him in. Bad decisions sometimes work out just fine. If a kid runs into the street without looking for traffic, and instead of being hit by a car they find $50 laying on the street, it was still an objectively bad decision to run into the street without looking. Likewise, when Suárez happens to hit a home run, it doesn’t mean it was a good idea to have him hitting 5th that day. Bad decisions sometimes turn out great.

      • J

        If Bell deserves credit for resting Votto yesterday because supposedly he’ll benefit from it, does that mean it’s fair to criticize the manager whenever players slump at the end of a season? Or does it only work in one direction? (Manager deserves credit for resting players, but deserves no blame if players seem fatigued?)

      • wkuchad

        No one said Bell deserves credit for resting Votto. However, it’s not reasonable to say it’s “blatantly wrong” to rest Votto in that situation. These are two completely different things.

      • J

        It’s always blatantly wrong to play a lesser player (Suarez) in place of a better player (Votto) unless you have an objectively good reason for doing it, and I don’t think such a reason existed on Sunday unless Votto was hurt. He could just as easily rested against one of the bad teams the Reds are about to play, ideally against a lefty starter, which would minimize the impact of not having him in the lineup. There really is a logic to what I’m saying, believe it or not.

      • Indy Red Man

        I get what you’re saying J. Bell doesn’t make sense at times, but think about Joey’s mental energy expanded on that streak. I wouldn’t sleep very well if I had 6 or 7 games in a row and I was threatening the all-time streak. I’m sure he had a big emotional crash after that game and coming inches away from tying the record. Plus day game after night.
        His replacement went 5-5 and we won easily so it turned out ok.

      • greenmtred

        So if we shouldn’t judge decisions by results, why are they important at all? And, J, you don’t believe that there was any objectively correct reason to rest Votto, but neither you nor I know. Looking at all of the comments on the subject, it seems to me that this boils down, as it often does, to a disagreement about the importance of managerial decisions. My point, as always, is that for every decision, there are other decisions not made, the outcomes of which are unknowable.

      • J

        I’ll try to explain again. The manager’s most important job is to give the team the best chance of winning. That means making decisions that maximize the odds of success. If he makes decisions that don’t maximize those odds, he’s making mistakes. But sometimes those bad decisions will just happen to work out well. If one option has a 20% chance of working and the other has a 40% chance, and Bell goes with the first option, it’s a bad choice but there’s still a 20% chance it will work. If it does happen to work this time, that doesn’t make it “right,” it makes it lucky.

        The Reds can (and often do) win games even if Bell makes multiple bad decisions. The victory doesn’t mean they’re good decisions; it means the bad decisions didn’t cost them the game. He also makes many good decisions that don’t work out, and I never blame him for those. Sometimes good decisions don’t produce the desired outcome. Hitting India leadoff is a good decision even if India goes 0-4 and makes an error. But he makes a LOT of bad decisions, and a LOT of them don’t work out. When he hits Suárez 5th, for example, and Suárez goes 0-4 with multiple strikeouts and multiple runners left on base, that’s a bad decision that doesn’t work — but sometimes the Reds win those games anyway. It’s not BECAUSE he chose to hit Suárez 5th, it’s DESPITE that bad decision. He should be criticized for it regardless of whether the Reds win. Same with resting Votto on Sunday instead of on a day when the team wasn’t as likely to need Votto’s bat in order to win.

      • Indy Red Man

        Wow. Thanks for breaking it down to the mouth-breathing simpletons like myself! I would’ve never known that good decisions can go bad or bad decisions might occasionally work. Thanks

        I’m sure it would be free money for you, but I’d love to have the honor of losing $100 to you in headsup fantasy baseball. Just to see your genius at work would be tremendously gratifying! Let me know!

        Joey is 1 for 7 off Stroman, but don’t let facts bother you

      • greenmtred

        I understood your point. My point is: who is the authority who decides which decisions are right or wrong in advance? How much information should that authority be privy to? No doubt, sometimes managers make bad decisions, just as sometimes players don’t execute. But it’s hard–especially lacking any but very generalized information–to know whether it was the decision or the execution to blame.

  24. LDS

    The Reds salvage the season split with the NYM. They should have taken 5 of 6. Looking back on boxes, except for the game where Stroman shut them down, they had the other two. They can’t give away winnable games and make the post season. Let’s hope they don’t stub their toes with Minnesota.

  25. Klugo

    I tell you what, this team is playing good defense, too. Castellanos and Winker have made it their mission to improve their D and it shows. Suarez has been better since moving to 3B. Farmer and India have been showing good gloves up the middle. Aquino. I could go on and on. It’s been a much improved area.
    Now, baserunning… that’s a different story.

    • Alan Horn

      I agree on the defense and the poor base running. One is more skill oriented while the other is mental. The getting thrown out at HP is ok with me as that is being aggressive and requires a good throw/relay. AA’s two mistakes and Votto’s are not ok.

      • Klugo

        Suarez shouldve and could’ve been at 2nd, imo. Would’ve scored easily on Naquin double had he hustled to 2nd on the ball off of Baezs glove.

      • RojoB


        If a guy is like Suárez is struggling and the skipper wants to give him nice feelings and believe in him and stuff it’s one thing

        But now Suárez isn’t hustling?

        That takes him down several pegs in my eyes. And it would be #1 on my list of reasons to begin starting Schrock at third until Moustakas or Senzel return

        ¡Viva el sacacorchos!

    • Arthur

      I checked out the Fielding Bible website – they have ratings for “Defensive Runs Saved” by position for all 30 teams.

      For total team defense, the Reds are ….. 29th out of 30 teams. Their outfield is by far the worst in baseball. All three positions are way below average.

      I don’t know how much faith you put in those kinds of statistics, but those rankings confirm what I thought just watching them play on a daily basis. Their team defense on the infield is mediocre at best, and in the outfield, it’s a dumpster fire.

      Long-term, something has to be done to address this problem. The DH will help if it comes – one of either Castellanos (assuming he stays) or Winker could slide to DH. But this team is going to need to find some athletes to play in the OF sooner rather than later.

      It’s also something to be considered in deciding what to do with Nick Castellanos. Great hitter. Great leader. Love to see him come to the plate. But the man is a terrible outfielder. There’s no way around it.

      • BatsLeftThrowsRight

        Castellanos has turned himself into a decent outfielder. Castellanos, Winker and Naquin do not have that God given great first step on flyballs. They have an instinct to break back on almost every ball hit to the outfield resulting in many would be “fly ball outs” that turn into bloop singles.

        This is hard to pick up on television but believe me this negative is there. I have seen too many of these balls drop in. A great outfielder charges the ball, this slows every base runner down. Charging the ball consistently along with that great break on the ball is the difference between mediocre and great.

        Shogo covers their rear ends out there. He should be in the game eighth inning on along with Barnhart every game. Defense should never be taken for granted.

    • VaRedsFan

      Suarez’s defense is is only better compared to his defense at SS. He’s made some great plays at 3B, but plenty of bad ones. I would label it below average, but not awful

      • Alan Horn

        Kind of like Bell’s managing. A lot of good with a lot of bad versus being something like 80/20 good to bad.

  26. Roger Garrett

    Forgot to mention that Naquin had 2 knock and 2 walks today.

  27. Tim

    Today’s performance has shrocketed Max into a larger role.

  28. paul olbert

    As a long-time Reds fan from Wisconsin, I love the fact that cincy fans are way more knowledgeable, don’t mind criticizing, and have better radio and tv announcers than Brewers fans. Probably won’t catch Milwaukee this year, but long-term success is in the cards. New announcer breeds life into tv broadcasts, while Lark, Welch and Cowboy are all good.Going on limited viewing, the new bullpen righties seem average, with Wilson looking similarly as bad as Garrett and Doolittle

    • Tom Mitsoff

      Where in Wisconsin, Paul? I’m in Madison.

    • JayTheRed

      Wilson looked really good tonight compared to his first relief appearance. His first appearance was ok but not terrible.

      I think you are underestimating these new guys some.

      There are several posters here from Wisconsin including me… I have been surprised how many are from Wisconsin.

      • doofus

        Spent half of the 70’s in Appleton where I learned to hunt, fish, play cribbage and go to Packer games.

    • TR

      Cincinnati has always been a leading midsized media center and still is led by the ‘Nation’s Station,’ WLW.

  29. Indy Red Man

    Answering some of these earlier comments.

    1. Castellanos is under contract and if he doesn’t like $16 mil, $16mil, and $20 mil then adios amigo! He wouldn’t take less if he bombed this year.

    Thats now how it works? Guys outperform their salaries then they get paid. I don’t agree that we should just move on as opposed to giving him a raise. Somebody will (or should) offer him $90/mil for 4 years or something. Who knows whats up with Geno? Stephenson isn’t showing power at this point. We need right-handed thump in the middle of the lineup and he’s perfect for gabp. You don’t have to swing from your heels like Geno to put the ball out in Cincy and Nick has figured that out.

    2. Mahle should go to the pen

    What? He leads the team in Ks for one thing. Yeah he might only go 5 innings because of his pitch count, but I’ll take 1-2 runs over 5 all day compared to 3 runs in 6.
    Especially since our pen is 10x better now! He’s not perfect, but 10.6 Ks per 9 as opposed to 6.1 Ks/9 for Vlad. Now he should imitate Vlad when it comes to pounding the zone and being more pitch efficient, but he’s got more arm talent then Vlad and thus a higher ceiling

    • Alan Horn

      Agree we should try to keep Castellanos within reason. It will take more money. How much is the question. I would let the rotation play out. There will be injuries and someone’s performance might falter. You can never have enough good pitching.

    • Reaganspad

      Mahle struggles to put guys away. The last 2 starts he has thrown (for strikes) nothing but fastballs. All of the announcers (Brantley and Welch) appreciate his efforts but say that you will only get through 5 innings because he cannot finish them off. I get he has a lot of strikeouts, but he has taxed the pen big time this year. Vlad is a better pitcher for the Reds right now. He could have completed that game today which is what we need from starters. Mahle cannot come close to 80 pitches in 7 innings. He is at 80 thru 4, one pitch…spells bullpen with Greene and Lodolo on the way

      • Indy Red Man

        Vlad also gave up a HR plus atleast 2 balls to the base of the wall. Thats probably 3 hrs in gabp. Mahle has a lower era and I suspect it stays that way. We’ll see? I like Vlad and he definitely has composure and mental toughness for a rookie, but I think Mahle is more talented.

      • Jim Walker

        @IRM> Agree Mahle looks like a better raw talent than Gutierrez. However, lack of pitch efficiency could do Mahle in with the Reds. If Greene, Lodolo and Ashcraft stay healthy and are pushing for MLB spots, poor pitch efficiency could have Mahle on the outside looking in by this NLT this time next year because to date all 3 of those guys look to be pitch efficient with an equal or higher ceiling than Mahle.

  30. SteveO

    Castellanos looks to be the first to return. Freeman should be optioned to Louisville and keep Schrock up with the Reds. Sims looks to be next, which means one of Brach, Doolittle or Hoffman to be DFA’d. Blandino and Feliz look to be coming back around the same time, which should lead to Feliz being activated and soon DFA’d as he has no place in the Reds no options bullpen. Blandino off the 60 day IL and gets Feliz’s roster spot and optioned to Louisville. Moose and Senzel returning should lead to Alaniz and Warren moving to the 60 day IL. If Antone ready before rosters expand, one of Brach, Doolittle or Hoffman to be DFA’d. If not, Antone added as 1of 2 additional roster spots that will be available. This is all assuming no more injuries on the next month. Go Reds!

  31. Indy Red Man

    Also for Lopez nation on RL. I like the kid, but there is a difference between looping the ball over the infield like Lopez/Jose Peraza and lining the ball like Schrock. When you only Shogo the ball then the OF plays shallow and sends you back to the bench sooner then later. If Schrock was full-time or platoon then he’d probably hit 15 HRs. He’s a bad little dude!

    • RojoB

      I hear you but will Bell?

      Someone said above “we know who the 3B will be on Tuesday!”

      Yes—we all know it will be Eugenio Suárez, the shoe-in for the 2021 Reds Coaches Award

    • Alan Horn

      Don’t sell Lopez short. I have seen him hit the ball hard in the minors. He isn’t a HR or power hitter for sure but is an excellent contact hitter. A lot of things can happen when the ball doesn’t miss the bat. On the other hand, I like Schrock as well. Both need to be given adequate playing time and see which one (if either) float to the top. We know what Farmer can do when Barreo finally comes up to play SS. I would guess one of Farmer, Lopez or Schrock will be at 3B. We could move India back to 3B but he is too good at 2B,

      • Indy Red Man

        It will probably end like Josh VanMeter for some of them. Some of them can help on the bench, but you hate to relegate a guy to AAA that might be able to start for someone else. I really hope Moose hits the ball and we can trade him somewhere, but thats probably not going to happen. $18/mil is too much. They could probably deal Geno, but I’d rather keep him then Moose personally. Senzel, Aquino, Schrock, Farmer, Barrero. You can’t play everyone.

      • Melvin

        Personally, if someone would take him, I’d love to trade Suarez.

  32. Rednat

    the team has done it’s job by going 5-2 on the road trip
    the front office did its job by bringing in bullpen help
    now the fans need to do their job and show up for these next 6 games.

    the weather should be pretty fantastic.
    i would like to see at least 20 k for the weekday games and 30k plus for the weekend games. the sunday crowds have been disappointing so far but celebrating Joe Morgan day this Sunday should help.

    the better the crowds are the more pressure we fans put on the front office to keep building over the offseason.

    i hope we can make the playoffs this year but if not 2022 could be a great year for us

  33. Tom Mitsoff

    Here’s another possible twist to the roster situation: Would the Reds like to have Jose Barrero be post-season eligible? I would think so. Doug will know if this is correct or not, but it used to be the case that a player had to have been on the major league roster sometime before the rosters expand in September to be eligible for post-season.

    I am in the Kyle Farmer fan club, and I think he should start at shortstop for as long as he continues to hit and field as he has been for the past four weeks. But I also think there’s a chance he will revert to his career mean, and the option you want ready for that eventuality is Barrero.

    I have no idea who would go to allow that to happen. Maybe reduce the bullpen from nine arms.

    • Melvin

      Good point Tom. I’d definitely want him as an option. Maybe we can bring him up at least for a short time for Freeman. That’s all it would take wouldn’t it?

    • Tomn

      Agree. Plus we know Farmer is injured to some extents. He’s said so himself. We need a backup and I don’t mean Freeman.

    • Jim Walker

      Find somebody to put on the 10 day IL on August 31 and add Barrero to the 26 man roster as the corresponding move (tell me they won’t have a worthy relief pitcher). They would both then be eligible for a postseason roster.

      There are also other workarounds to get Barrero onto a post-season roster; but, they are more involved and less sure. Players on the 10 day MLB IL or active roster August 31 but subsequently sent to the IL are eligible for the post season. Any of those players can replaced on the post season roster list by any player on the 40 man roster who was otherwise not eligible for the post season roster list.

  34. Bet on Red

    Mets suffer another loss today when they fail to sign their draft pick. If we win the divison we would face the mets in the divisional round and i like our odds there alot. They are about the worst first place team ever

    • VaRedsFan

      Are you forgetting Degrom is out?

      • Bet on Red

        And will still be out during the playoffs, also he cant pitch all 5 games

    • TR

      It seems the NLE is challenging the NLC as the weakest division.

  35. VaRedsFan

    I see a lot of comments about Freeman is up with the club because he can backup at SS. My thinking is that he doesn’t have to be with the Reds to backup SS. If Farmer gets hurt (God forbid), you just play Geno there for the rest of the game, then you could call Hendrix up the next day for more day to day SS.
    So IMO, Hendrix should go down and Shrock stays.

    • Melvin

      Yeah I know but Bell doesn’t think like that. Also Freeman is a lefty and we all know how Bell loves to have an option from each side for each position. He’s not going to have his way in that area at least at SS soon one way or another.

      • Indy Red Man

        Freeman is gone pretty soon. Moose and Senzel are close and SIms isn’t too far either. Thats most likely Freeman and 2 pitchers. Justin Wilson is signed for 2022 so its probably 2 of Brach, Doolittle, or Hoffman.

        They could ship out Schrock, but its really stupid to lose a good bat in a pennant race. They probably won’t have enough work for 14 pitchers anyway.

      • Melvin

        Then what do you do when Casty and TJA come back? 🙂

      • Indy Red Man

        Good question? Decisions decisions?

        I would say Freeman/Hoffman/Brach out with Moose/Senzel/Sims in

        Shrock has to go for Castellanos

        Shrock is back 3 days later for Senzel IL

        Doolittle goes for Antone

        Senzel is obviously a bigger/better athlete then Schrock and more versatile. Had a better career in the minors so whatever makes the Reds better. I’m not rooting against Senzel, but he’s got to prove something
        at some point

        I hated losing Josh VanMeter. He had 3 doubles vs LA the other night with 3 rbis. 9 for last 28 with 6 doubles, 3B, and a HR. The Reds have so many solid players that they’re going to lose some guys eventually. Aquino is out of options. I’d leave Shogo in NYC myself, but $8 mil/2022 says he ain’t going anywhere

      • Melvin

        I doubt Doolittle goes. He’s a lefty and Bell won’t let em take one of his LH arms in the pen. He’s owed money too although not as much. Aki is really weighing down the roster. He would be better off some place else too. If I had to bet the three lefties in the pen stay.

      • JB

        Hated losing Josh VanMeter? You mean the guy hitting .207 with a negative career WAR? I love when somebody cherry picks stats. The guy is terrible.

      • Indy Red Man

        JVM is still young and he has a good swing. Baseball isn’t easy. I know a little bit. I was absolutely the only one on RLN to talk about Schrock when he was hurt.

      • Jim Walker

        @IRM Re: Senzel, “…..I’m not rooting against Senzel, but he’s got to prove something at some point…..”

        But should a guy who can be optioned get a free pass back into the middle of a playoff chase given what he hasn’t done at MLB up to this point? Recall the team was mired below .500 when he went out and since has matured into a squad that has played ~.600 baseball over 2+ months without him.

        I believe the better path is to let Senzel play out the entire 20 day rehab period at AAA; and, unless he is setting the world on fire then option him to AAA to continue there.

    • Alan Horn

      Good point. Freeman’s defense isn’t enough to compensate for his poor hitting. He is useless as a PH. I assume you meant call up Barreo to play SS. That is a good plan even if you had to play Suarez as SS an extra day.

  36. Max BRAGG

    Reds are a decent team, but thank what shape they would be in if they didn’t have to carry SHOGO! PLUS if BELL would drop Suarez to 7th or 8th numbers don’t lie he isn’t the player they thought.

  37. Jim t

    Geno 20 Hrs and 57 RBI’s. I’m aware his batting average sucks but his power numbers do play in our park.

    Consider how much the game has changed. Small ball is gone. The infield shift is upon us and for this year we don’t have the DH again. Starting pitchers are on a 100 pitch count and it seems that the teams that are able to hold the lead and close out games after the 7th inning win. Case in point the Brewers.

    Another subtle change is base running. Stolen bases are far and few between.Guys don’t seem to score from second base on singles anymore. With the shift middle infielders are able to shorten the lead by being positioned right on top of second base. The walking lead is gone. So for instance if Joey Votto or Winker is on 1st a single generally moves him to second, then another single moves him to 3rd and another home. Geno’s power played in our offense even if his average sucks. With high OBP players in front of him him hitting a home run helps our no. 2 rated league offense score runs. Like many I would like to see his overall average come up but he is not a black hole in our line up. Our issue is not our offense but our bullpen which if effective would have us much closer to the playoffs then we are now.

    • Tomn

      Some players do score from 2nd but they have to have some speed (e.g., India, akyama). Slower runner don’t. The Reds don’t have a lot of speed so we depend more on xbh. And yet, aren’t we ranked pretty high on Runs scored?

      Definitely our BP has been our #1 problem but it’s gotten better with givens, cessa, Justin ?, and as sims and Antone return, even better.

      • Tomn

        Some players do score from 2nd but they have to have some speed (e.g., India, akyama). Slower runner don’t. The Reds don’t have a lot of speed so we depend more on xbh. And yet, aren’t we ranked pretty high on Runs scored?

        Definitely our BP has been our #1 problem but it’s gotten better with givens, cessa, Justin ?, and as sims and Antone return, even better. Infact, a quick check us we are #2 in Runs scored in the NL.

    • Grand Salami

      Those cumulative stats are meaningless. His power is down. His k rate is up over 30%. His walk rate is basically career low.

      He has cost the reds 2 wins versus a league average player. I just looked up his stats at baseball reference and the are still abysmal.

      • Alan Horn

        While Geno’s HRs and RBIs are good, he leaves a ton of runners stranded usually via the SO. A lot of things can happen if you consistently put the bat on the ball. Geno is one of the weakest contact hitters the Reds have ever had. I don’t remember Geno’s contact being nearly this bad in prior years but this is the first year I have had the opportunity to watch most of the Red’s games on tv. He is very much like Dave Kingman from years ago.

    • Melvin

      Well Bell seems to agree with you about Saurez. I personally don’t think he should be playing but Bell does and obviously he’s the one calling the shots. Guess i’m one of those crazy people that think BA still matters.

      • Jim t

        Melvin I wouldn’t want a team of Geno’s but I think how he is being used in our line up along with others is working offensively for our reds. On post game yesterday they mentioned we were 2nd in NL offensively. It seems the focus on generating runs is being replaced by the long ball. Especially with the shift being utilized.

      • Melvin

        Yeah I know. It’s just I’m personally not a fan of the all or nothing approach. There is always a need to for balance. Personally If I had to play someone like him with what he brings I would hit him 9th. He would get the least amount of ABs but still would have potential for the long ball and being productive in that way. Also, if he hit in front of the top of the order he most likely would get better pitches to hit and have the best chance for success.

      • Jim Walker

        I’ve come to favor OBP over BA unless the hitter has an absolutely poor slugging %. But I can see both sides. If I am on my last out and have the tying run in scoring position, should I send up the PH with a .285 average but .310 OBP/ .350 SLG or the guy with a .260 average but .370 OBP/.450 SLG? Maybe it depends on the next scheduled hitter after the guy I choose?

      • Melvin

        I’d take the guy who puts the ball in play more…line drives preferably. 🙂

  38. Hotto4Votto

    According to Fangraphs, not one single pitcher in the bullpen has minor league options. Either they burned them all, or it is not applicable due to big league service time. Beyond that, the Reds are currently working with a 9-man bullpen leaving their bench a player short. Brach, Hoffman, and Doolittle are the top of my list to leave once Sims and Antone are ready to return.
    On the position side, according to Fangraphs, Freeman has an option and is likely sent down when Senzel returns. I’m hoping when Moose returns the Reds balance the roster. When Castellanos returns it’ll probably be for Schrock because he has options still, but I’d love for it to be Akiyama, who is listed as having 3 options remaining.
    In summary, return Sims, Antone, Senzel, Moose, and Castellanos. Option Freeman and Akiyama, DFA Brach, Hoffman, and Doolittle. Add Warren and Barrero when the rosters expand in September.

    • Reaganspad

      Optioning Shogo makes so much sense.

      Doolittle is better than AG yet everyone wants to cut him. I have seen no adjustments from AG in his whole rime with the Reds.

      • Alan Horn

        I don’t have much confidence in either. AG for sure needs another pitch. Maybe a change.

    • Melvin

      Hope you’re right about Akiyama having options. That’s the first I’ve heard of it. If so that makes things a lot simpler. Don’t forget about Santillan in September. He’s been pretty good in the pen. Not enough spots for everyone. Hard decisions coming up very soon. As Tom pointed out if we want Barrero available for the playoffs he will need to have some mlb experience this year before September. As I’ve said I have my doubts Bell will let them cut Doolittle. May be stuck with 9 relief pitchers and that means Schrock gone too. I think Bell has a lot more to do with player moves than we think. It most likely will be what he wants which is why I think 9 in the pen.

    • old-school

      Per Cots contracts- Akiyama has a stipulation in his contract that he cannot be sent to the minors.

      • Melvin

        That’s what I was afraid of. That makes it a lot harder. In my mind he has to be put on waivers at least but probably released. He just hasn’t worked out and if we want to win like we say we do his roster spot is needed. It would be awesome if some team claimed him.

      • Jim Walker

        Yep makes sense. I was pressed for time earlier and didn’t have the time to check for sure but suspected he might. Thanks for checking.

        It would be nice if one site had the total information available across Fangraphs, BBRef, and Cot’s Contracts.

        I pay a low level subscription to Fangraphs and BBRef to just support them (virtually never actually log on). If somebody rolled all 3 into one I’d gladly pay what I pay the others to have all in one spot.

      • James A Walker

        Just checked Cot’s and it says “without his consent”. Wonder if his consent has a cost and what it would be if it does. Maybe they could buy his consent with $$$ and a promise of one of the 2 expanded roster spots in September?

      • Alan Horn

        I agree he has to be released and the money ate but that would make the owners and others look bad. if it were one of the big money teams he would have already been gone. He like Suarez is being kept because of his contract and it being a small market team.

      • Hotto4Votto

        Thanks for clearing that up fellas. Wonder if he’d consent? He’s not getting playing time to show any improvements off with the club and will have less opportunities once Castellanos comes back. He’ll make the $ either way, maybe getting a chance to play and build value would be better in the long run.

  39. centerfield

    If Akiyama has options, he should be send down to get regular at bats when Senzel returns. Make sense?

    • SteveLV

      The point I’d make on Shogo, which I think is the point someone made above, is send him down regardless of his option status. If someone grabs him off waivers – great! If no one does, he can play regularly in AAA, which is also great as it may do him some good to play regularly.

      • SteveLV

        Ok – didn’t know his contract prohibited him being sent down. Too bad. Things could get a little crowded with him having to stay.

  40. JB

    Everyone is talking expanded rosters in September, didn’t MLB continue the rule from last year where rosters could only be expanded from 26 to 28 players and one of them had to be a pitcher?

    • Jim Walker

      Yes. only 2 additional spots become available on 1 September. Not sure about one of them needing to be a pitcher. The Reds being the Reds, they will spend both spots on pitchers if they can find 2 health arms 😉

  41. Redgoggles

    Regarding the roster clutter; let’s wait and see if/when the injured guys are actually ready. With the way the team is playing and the week’s competition, I would vote for leaving the guys down longer to be sure they are ready when they do come back.

    Assuming Moose is the first one back (before Senzel), I would like to see the organization say that Suarez will be our backup SS for the rest of the year and Moose/Suarez will share the 3B position. Otherwise, Freeman will have to be kept which seems like a waste if that means AA – or really anyone – gets DFA’d. And, I think they will option Schrock before Freeman otherwise, which makes the team bench/PH options weaker. So, I’m hoping domino one is Freeman down.

  42. Roger Garrett

    Again interesting decisions coming up.I would guess because of money owed that we will see some players stay that based on performance should go while others that are indeed younger with more upside go.Its just the way it is and that compounds the problem of trying to catch the Brewers which I doubt seriously and or make it as a wild card.I will agree with previous posts in that while winning 2 out of 3 is great that will not cut with 50+ games left.Reds will have to beat up on the teams they should beat at the tune of 5-1 and not 4-2 with 6-0 the goal.Hard to do of course and especially hard unless we stop giving away games late by not pitching our best late and by having lineups that aren’t our best.Not referring to guys being given days off or being nicked up and setting.I am referring to playing non performers.No time to try and let guys work it out and lets please pay attention to that.The urgency is now and with guys returning such as Casty,Senzel and Moose we can’t have those why is he playing questions.I also believe you must ride you hot hands.No way Shrock doesn’t start Tuesday at third or gives an outfielder a day of rest if indeed a guy is banged up or tired.IMO of course.