The Cincinnati Reds pitching was bad. The offense had one hit. And that led to a win by the New York Mets both on the day and in the series.
| Final | R | H | E |
|---|---|---|---|
| New York Mets (50-43) | 7 | 9 | 0 |
| Cincinnati Reds (49-47) | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| W: Stroman (7-8) L: Hoffman (3-5) |
|||
| Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread | |||
The Offense
Aristides Aquino had a single. Joey Votto had a walk. And Jonathan India was hit by a pitch. That’s it. That was the extent of the Cincinnati Reds offense on the afternoon as they were held in check all afternoon by Marcus Stroman and in the 9th by Jeurys Familia.
The Pitching
Jeff Hoffman allowed a run in the 2nd inning as the Mets grabbed a 1-0 lead. But the game got away from him, and the Reds in the 3rd inning when Dominic Smith crushed a grand slam off of him to make it 5-0. A 2-run home run in the 5th off of Tony Santillan made it 7-0. Sean Doolittle, R.J. Alaniz, and Edgar Garcia didn’t allow a hit in their combined 4.0 innings of relief.
Notes Worth Noting
Following the game manager David Bell said the team was not sure what the plan was at the moment regarding Jeff Hoffman and the back end of the rotation and that they will spend time discussing their options.
David Bell says "we haven't figured that out" on the plan for Jeff Hoffman going forward.
Said they'll use the off day tomorrow to figure out if they'll stay with the 6-man and how they'll address the back end of the rotation. #Reds @fox19
— Jeremy Rauch (@FOX19Jeremy) July 21, 2021
Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds
St. Louis Cardinals vs Cincinnati Reds
Friday July 23, 7:10pm ET.
Wade LeBlanc (0-2, 4.31 ERA) vs Tyler Mahle (7-3, 3.93 ERA)
Pretty disheartening to see the caliber of pitching being trotted out to the mound on a consistent basis. Is this the best the Reds can do!? Appparently! It seems like a number of members of the pitching staff are rejects from other teams, that the Reds hope will be “lightning in a bottle.”
What a difference a week makes.
Reds went from 6 games over .500 to 2 games over, and are now only 1.5 games ahead of both St. Louis and the Cubbies (both who they play next).
6 games out of the Wild Card, 6.5 out in the NL Central. The only thing that has kept them afloat is that the teams ahead of them have also had mediocre weeks.
These next games against St. Louis and the Cubbies should give the situation clarity. Will the Reds regroup and be buyers? Or will they completely collapse and be sellers?
Season hangs in balance these next 8 days.
That’s a tough one. Will this version of the Red’s front office regroup and be buyers or completely collapse and be sellers? The last week of this month should be interesting.
Honestly expect them to neither buy nor sell. Nothing impactful anyway. Doing nothing is sort of their thing.
We have several promising prospects whose service time can be manipulated.
Well they have to figure something out. Save an injury, Vlad still has 8 days he needs to clear to be able to return.
Reds have alot of injuries right now to key players. It always seems that way, year after year. Hoffman did not pitch that well, before he was injured, so I don’t think he will “magically” change now, but remains to be seen. Not only did the Reds need to get a shortstop in the off season, but they should have gotten a closer. Part of the bullpens problems, has been closer by committee. Hembree has done pretty well, but I don’t think he is the long term solution.
The players filling in for Castellanos, Moustakas, and Senzel are what they are…basically between AAA and Major Leagues. We call them AAAA. Especially those players filling in for both Castellanos and Moustakas. On pitching, why not have Vladamir Guitterez be the 5th starter, he has been okay most of the time. Hoffman not reliable. Why would the Reds think differently about him.
Finally, people have said, its not the owners fault, he can’t play the game. Players have to play, and win or lose….but YES, alot is the owners fault, when the owner will not pay the money needed to put the best players possible on the field. Or, the owner does not give 100% effort on his part, to try to put as best players as possible on the field. Instead, Reds owner went the cheap route on the bullpen, and look where the bullpen is…
Aquino has looked like he’s belonged the last two days filling in for Castellanos. He’s not an MVP candidate, but surely has a role on a major league team. Akiyama is a bust and Naquin is a 5th OF type. Senzel may well be a bench player as well based on what we’ve seen from him so far in the majors. Aquino has proven more than him in my opinion.
I would agree that they should keep Gutierrez in the rotation. No idea what they see in Hoffman. He hasn’t been good at any level. Send him down to AAA and keep starting to improve or put him in the back of the bullpen. It doesn’t really matter.
With a 990 ops, he should be playing for an extended period. His opposite field hit with 2 strikes yesterday was a good sign for him as far as adjustments.
The way he stung the hr yesterday and the single today told me that he is locked in right now. Catch the wave, we need momentum from somewhere other than India.
And yes I know it will come with a TOOBLAN on the base paths, but he is playing a solid RF right now.
Hey, if he disappears into his 2020 shell, you have not lost anything with our injuries
Agree 100%
Jeff Hoffman was a momentum killer when he was in the rotation before. Doesn’t seem like that’ll change this time around. The problem is the Reds don’t really have many, if any, better options. Gutierrez and Santillan are not ready. Shouldn’t have traded Iglesias; should’ve turned him into a starter. Maybe it’s not too late for Lorenzen, after all. I don’t know.
That Santillan only pitched one inning in a blowout speaks volumes. It was a perfect opportunity to give him multiple innings, sprinkle in a third pitch, yet they opted not to. Soooo….now you’ve basically eliminated Hoffman, Gutierrez, and Santillan as starters. To me that signals the next man up has to be….
Hunter Greene.
I say heck yeah. Put him in the rotation and see if the team can catch fire. If they don’t, you shut him down in a month, no harm no foul and he’s got a head start on next year. It’s a win win. Same logic applies to Barrero. Quit wasting innings and at-bats on guys name Hoffman and Farmer.
Yep. Greene is definitely worth considering at this point.
That is a leap in logic
Hunter greene is not coming up
Nick lodolo isnt either
Jose Barrero isnt either
The first point is correct. There is no more effort to use Tony as a starter. WOuldnt make the Jump to greene that quickly though.
Time to start talking about selling. Unless they plan on making a realistic run at Castellanos, which I seriously doubt, they should trade him if they can get a good return. The recent losing streak has significantly decreased their playoff odds and they can’t let NC go for just a draft pick. Seems like they should be able to get a top 50 prospect for him from a contender.
Did someone other than mets’ reached 2B today?
Need to score for having a chance to win any game (other chance than the oposite team abandon the game)
Royals bail out Reds with two wins in Milwaukee past two days. Reds still alive but need to go on a streak pronto or things can go south permanently.
Who will step up and lead and say enough is enough? I guess nobody. Who will lead by example on this team?
Castellanos. Who the Brewers successfully put out of commission to keep us arms length away. Mission Accomplished.
Is Lopez playing 3rd base every now and then not even an option?
After having a 4 for 5 day while giving Suarez a couple of days off. Lopez has started 1 game and pinched hit in 3. Suarez had a .173 average prior to his 2 days rest and his risen his average to 0.174 since returning as the everyday starter.
I gotta believe (hope) that Suarez has until Moose and Senzel are back to get his act together before he’s sent to the bench for good. Love him, but he’s been awful.
What’s wrong with Suarez, in my view, is not complicated at all but very simple. The stat that says he has more HRs than anyone else in the ML since 2018 including Trout is in his head and he can’t/won’t get it out. The only way to do that is to bench him for an extended period of time until he finally realizes he needs to change if he wants to play. The talent is there if he wants to use it.
100% agreement. Hard not to root for Suarez but we’re nearly to August and it’s painfully obvious, he’s not going to “figure it out”.
No, Lopez is Starting LF for the Bats tonight with Schrock on third. Both still on 40 Man. Will have to observe usage.
I’d take either Lopez or Schrock at 3B over Geno right now. But that’s just me. It seems to me lie Geno’s head is spinning out of control and he’s floating away.
In par for the Reds – bring a guy up from the minors – let him go 4 for 5; sit him down; give him only 1 more start; 3 PH ABs; then send him back down to the minors
There’s no reason why the Reds should not be buyers at the deadline, preferably for two quality relievers and one starter. They are one good week away from being right back in the race for the division. Senzel and Moustakas are on the verge of returning, with Antone and Sims hopefully not far behind. Castellanos will be back any day now.
There are no guarantees for a 2022 season due to the CBA expiring. With Castellanos, the team MVP and candidate for NL MVP, almost certain to opt-out if the Reds don’t renegotiate and extend his contract, the Reds can’t afford to wait for next year. The NL Central is there for the taking and the Reds need to go all-in and give this team a boost. In addition to deadline acquisitions, the Reds could always bring up Greene and Lodolo to help the bullpen down the stretch as well.
+ 1 for buyer mindset
The Reds aren’t going to give away primo talent from the farm system to get two quality relievers and a starter, and every fan should hope they don’t as well.
They got Nick Masset for retirement tour Griffey back in the day. Its not impossible to improve the team, but its going to have to be something small. The problem is Milw has $30 mil less payroll then us, so whatever we can do they can do better. Their fans are ready for October. The Reds fans are getting ready for Joe Burrow or Ohio State and will disguise themselves as empty seats at gabp.
Agree.
The Reds are what they are, but fans are interested in this team and have been showing up at GABP. So far in top ten in ML attendance.
My point is the Brew will draw in Sept because they’re in 1st. Count me as a jerk I guess, but thats Colts/Hoosiers time. IU is actually ranked preseason in cfb which is unheard of.
The Reds? Give me a reason to care in September.
From Ken Rosenthal’s article at “The Athletic” today:
“ The race is not over, not when the Reds’ schedule includes 23 more games against the rebuilding Pirates and soon-to-be-deconstructed Cubs (the Brewers face those teams 16 more times). Starting Aug. 3, the Reds will play 45 of their final 56 games against teams currently under .500, while the Brewers will draw sub-.500 clubs in 36 of their final 55.”
That alone is a huge reason for optimism, along with the return of the injured players. Fix the bullpen and they’ll be in business.
If the Brewers continue pace they will win 93 games. You think the Reds can trade for two relievers and a starter and go 44-22 and get to 93 games?There are three games left with the Brewers. The time has passed.
I agree with being buyers two weeks ago
It is not totally pie in the sky that the Reds could still get to 93 wins but they have dug themselves a big hole via that number over the last 6 games.
During the All Star break, I did a series by series spreadsheet and came up with the Reds winning 93 games on my first pass then scaled it back to 90.
After these last 2 series, the Reds are -2 games to my projection (I had them winning 2 of 3 versus the Brewers but losing 2 of 3 to the Metz). But I had no sweeps for or against the Reds in that projection; so there is room for the Reds to recover that projection and still pick up 3 more. However, they have to get back on the beam they were on in June and up to the All Star break in July.
And as for the Brewers getting to 93, I bet whoever did that projection did NOT have them dropping 2 of 3 to the Royals in Milwaukee.
The Reds lead MLB in being hit by pitches. Listened to the game on Monday evening and Jeff Brantley made a comment that was something along the lines of the fact that hit batters won’t stop until Reds pitchers make them stop. Interesting that not one Reds pitcher even attempted to throw at the Brewers last weekend after Castellanos was knocked out of the series.
Yeah. I dont like it either.
Hasn’t it occurred to anyone that after Bell make a fool out of himself his first year by getting thrown out of a record number of games mostly by arguing balls and strikes or imagining that every pitcher’s brush off pitch is not just good strategy but headhunting?
He stopped doing that about the middle of last year after getting hysterically emotional about it but it seems he has lost the respect of the umpires and the other teams.
I heard Brantley’s comments and I agree with him 100%.
Pretty much makes me glad I didn’t turn on the game on the other screen in the office. Based on the box score and recap, this was painful to watch.
I guess we get a couple evenings off from Reds baseball now … and an onslaught to come with the WLB’s and Stupid Cubs.
Yeah, the Salami happened as I was back brushing my teeth just ahead of leaving for a dental appointment. I could feel something bad cooking up as I headed back; and, as soon as I came out and saw the 5-0 on the screen I knew what had happened. Listened on the radio during the drive to the dentist; and, thankfully the game was over when I came out.
Reds are likely back 7 games on july 23
Either fix the bullpen now or mail it in
There is no in between
I saw the Buster Olney article on ESPN talking about Castellini being hypercompetitive and not liking to give up. Seriously? Where’s the evidence of that during his tenure?
I will say I agree with agree the Buster Olney piece on Bob C… Him not wanting to sell pieces has been a detriment to the past teams. This team is not a team to be sellers. They have shown the ability to string alot of wins in row. They need to get a reliable bullpen piece now. Hope Anton and the gang get back. Shoot for .500 July and a .700 August
I wouldn’t call not wanting to sell competitive. I’d call it short sighted at best.
The Reds are talking about whether to stay with a 6 man rotation or not, um hasn’t that already been forcibly decided by sending Vlad down, they will have to go to a 5 man with Hoffman in it. Don’t know what Bell is talking about. I mean if they stay with a 6 man and put Hoffman in the bullpen, they will have to come up with 2 starters that are ready, that they don’t currently have, doesn’t make any sense.
The door should be wide open next year for Hunter Greene. Manage his innings, orwhatever, but why not? Lodolo too at some point. He’ll be 24 next year. We obviously don’t have guys that can go 2-3 innings at a time like Lorenzen used to do.
Freddy Peralta threw 78 ip at 22 and 85 ip at 23. Somehow I find it hard to believe that Greene or Lodolo would be worse then Hoffman. You put Miley in between Castillo and Greene and they’d be screwed up for a week!
No way they would be worse than Hoffman , no way !!!!
Agree 100% !!!
That certainly is a good pitching matchup…. for next year. While there is a possibility everything clicks into place for Hunter Greene over his next couple starts and the calls become too loud to ignore, he gets called up, but Lodolo is not even going 5 innings yet in AA. I know its cause of the Blister and they want to ease him back into it. Remember the first four plate appearances for HUnter, Lodolo has to get through that as well.
I will say I agree with agree the Buster Olney piece on Bob C… Him not wanting to sell pieces has been a detriment to the past teams. This team is not a team to be sellers. They have shown the ability to string alot of wins in row. They need to get a reliable bullpen piece now. Hope Anton and the gang get back. Shoot for .500 July and a .700 August
What was the perceived need for a 6 man rotation in the first place? Why did think Hoffman was going to be any better than before? What happened to the fulfilling of a real need, long reliever with either Vlad or Santillan? Why do they need 14 pitchers, so that they are stuck with a guy who has no home runs on the year, another who has no extra base hits, another who is injured and a catcher for nonpitching roles?
Everyone is trying to limit innings. The short season last year and all that. IDK? They’re off tomorrow anyway? Mahle pitches and we lose 3-0 or whatever so I guess Hoffman took one for the team
Exactly! Go back to a 5-man rotation! Most of the Reds starters seldom go more than 6 innings! Get serious, get focused and win each remaining series against the other NL Central teams! That starts with getting more than one hit in a 9 inning game!
Castellanos just did a live interview on Instagram with Chris Rose. Rose asked him about his wrist and the response was that he had a CAT scan on it today and it has a micro fracture. Says he feels about 50 percent. Said he needed to take a couple days rest.
Doesn’t sound like great news…
Again, no retaliation by any Reds pitcher! Therefore, the Reds batters will continue to be targets of opposing pitchers and lead the league in the HBP statistic! And, based on the most recent medical report on Nick he will not be available for either series against the Cards or Cubs! Perfect!
I didn’t see the Castellanos hbp. Did it look intentional? India has been hit numerous times and I’ve seen many of those, and couldn’t say that they were intentional at all. Pitchers can pitch inside and even brush hitters back, and it doesn’t mean that they are trying to hit them, so retaliating to anything other than an obviously purposeful hbp is stupid and dangerous, and will lead to beanball wars, suspensions and, finally, a futile race to the bottom.
I guess I’m more negative, but I took Antone’s last IL as the last straw. He could’ve converted atleast 3 leads into wins since he went out last time. Add to that Lorenzen’s 1 inning on the year and the Brewers taking out Nick.
Even if we were 3-4 back I wouldn’t want to give up much for a rental. Why? Because the Reds are not in the running for a WS. I thought about that when I previewed my Indianapolis Colts today. Its not about just winning the division.
The Reds are 2-12 against SD & SF. This is not a team that you mortgage the future for…..not yet. Milwaukee isn’t going anywhere either. Castillo shut them down. Miley shut them down. Vlad contained them 3 starts in a row, but how’d he do against the Pads?
Exactly my thoughts. This team is more than just a couple of players away from competing for a WS. But Reds fans have the mindset, (from the years and years of losing), that going to the playoffs are like winning the WS !!!!
Honest question…if the Reds don’t go for it this year, what does the starting lineup look like in 2022 (if there is a season)? You’d have an age-38 Votto at 1B. You can’t safely plan on Moustakas or Senzel being a starter anywhere due to their injury-proneness. Suarez may not/should not even be on the team next year. The Reds have a $7.5 million option with Barnhart next year.
2022 possibilities:
C) Stephenson
Barnhart (if Reds spend $$$)
1B) Votto
2B) India
3B) ???
SS) Barrero
LF) Winker
CF) Naquin/Aquino
RF) ???
DH???) ???
Important (aren’t they all) series coming up against the Cards! Brewers have to deal with the White Sox which I think we can all agree are better than the Royals.
The time to win is now. A six man rotation? Tyler should have pitched today. No excuse why he didn’t. Hoffman should be DFA’d, he has had more than a few chances. He is hurting the club with his poor performance as well as taking a spot on the roster. The young guys should be here if they are using a six man. Let them finish their allotted innings with the big club!
perfect reason why he didnt. Reds got their High end rotation lined up perfectly for the cards. Even if Mahle pitched today, the reds still would have gotten one hit and loss. We are set up for success this weekend
I hope you’re right! Mahle has been anything but lights out his last 2 starts! The time is now to close the gap in the race for the NL Central lead.
There was an article in the NY Times about the crackdown on the substances that pitchers were using and Mahle was one of the pitchers highlighted for largest drop off in spin rate since then. Not sure I’d count on a good outing from him at this point
Wonder what it would cost to trade for Daniel Norris of DET. Think he is a free agent at the end of the year. Picking him up would help solve part of the bullpen issues. Guessing it would not take much to land him.
Maybe Noah Davis and Danny Lantigua?
Stroman was in the top ten of spin decline and we saw how how much effect it had on his game yesterday
I’ve watched the Reds religiously for a very long time, I’d love to know what their winning % is during Business Day specials. They consistently lose these.