There was a baseball game on the schedule but a football game broke out on the grass at Great American Ball Park on Monday night and it needed 11 innings before the Mets 5-runs in the top of the inning gave them a 15-10 lead and while Cincinnati got a run back in the bottom half it was all the Reds could muster in their 4th straight loss out of the All-Star break.

Final R H E
New York Mets (49-42) 15 18 4
Cincinnati Reds (48-46) 11 16 0
W: Banda (1-0) L: García (0-1) SV: May (3)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

The Offense

It was 3-0 Mets before the Reds offense even stepped up to the plate. Fortunately for Cincinnati the pitcher on the mound didn’t have a stellar track record this season in either the Major Leagues or Minor Leagues. That remained the same.

Jonathan India doubled, Jesse Winker singled and then the Mets defense helped out for the first time on the night as what appeared to be a routine double play ground ball was turned into a fielders choice error that brought India home and put runners on 1st and 2nd. Joey Votto was then hit by a pitch to load the bases. Tyler Naquin then doubled in two runs to tie the game up. Shogo Akiyama would put the Reds ahead 4-3 with a sac fly later in the inning.

The offense went back to work in the 2nd inning. Jonathan India was hit by what feels like the eleventy-billionth pitch of the season. Then two consecutive plays that involved three errors led to two more base runners reaching, and India scoring the 5th run of the game for Cincinnati. Joey Votto and Tyler Naquin both followed up with an RBI single to make it 7-3.

Cincinnati’s offense went silent from there for the next four innings. But then came the 7th. With two outs and two men on, Jesse Winker doubled into the right field corner to put the Reds up 8-7.

The Mets took the lead all of five minutes later and after the Reds went quietly in the 8th, they headed into the 9th still trailing 9-8 and needing at least a run with their 8-9-1 hitters due up. Kyle Farmer got his job done, drawing a 4-pitch walk to lead the inning off and he was pinch run for by Aristides Aquino. Tucker Barnhart would strike out, bringing up Jonathan India who had reached base all five times he went to the plate. But that streak ended with a ground out that moved the runner to second. It came down to Jesse Winker who tied the game up with an RBI double. Mike Freeman came out of the dugout to pinch hit for Heath Hembree and struck out to send the game into the 10th inning.

After the Mets took a 10-9 lead in the top of the inning the Reds began their half with Mike Freeman standing at second base, a lefty on the mound who hadn’t pitched in the big leagues all season, and Joey Votto at the plate. Advantage Votto, who took a 3-0 pitch and lined a single into left field to put runners on the corners for Tyler Naquin. He would foul off four pitches before flaring a game-tying single into left field and put runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs. Eugenio Suárez then grounded into a double play, but Joey Votto did move up to third base. It didn’t matter as Shogo Akiyama grounded out to third base to end the inning and send the game into the 11th.

After the Mets dropped a 5-spot in the top of the 11th the Reds offense had their work cut out for them. Aristides Aquino grounded out to begin the inning, but Tucker Barnhart and Jonathan India followed with singles to make it 15-11 and lead to a pitching change for New York. Trevor May came on to face Nick Castellanos who had entered the game in a double switch on the defensive side of things in the top of the inning. Perhaps a fully healthy Castellanos gets the Reds within a run, but instead he flew out to the warning track in right field for the second out of the inning. Mike Freeman would strike out to end the game.

The Pitching

The game didn’t start out well for Vladimir Gutierrez as he allowed a single and then back-to-back home runs and put the Reds in a 3-0 deficit before he recorded an out. That was all the Mets got in the 1st, and he fired out a shutout 2nd and 3rd inning to follow.But the 4th inning was a lot like the 1st. A leadoff single was followed by a home run and all of a sudden it was 7-5. A double followed and the tying run came to the plate. Pitcher Jerad Eickhoff laid down a bunt single to put runners on the corners with one out. Pete Alonso singled to make it 7-6. Gutierrez got out of the inning without any further damage, but it was the last inning he had on the day as his ERA ballooned to 4.97 on the season after giving up six earned on the day.

R.J. Alaniz came out for the start of the 5th inning and made his first big league appearance since 2019. After not giving up a home run all season in Triple-A the first batter he faced, Dom Smith, hit a baseball to Kentucky home run halfway up section 144 in the sundeck to tie the game up at 7-7. Alaniz settled in from there, getting back-to-back strikeouts and a lazy fly ball to left to end the inning.

Alaniz returned for the 6th and walked the first batter he faced, but rebounded with a strikeout. That ended his night and Brad Brach came out to try and keep the game tied up. He did just that against his former team as he struck out Brandon Nimmo and Pete Alonso. Amir Garrett took over in the 7th and worked a perfect inning that included two strikeouts to keep the game all tied up.

Josh Osich took over in the 8th inning and things didn’t go the lefty’s way. He allowed a leadoff single and then a 2-run home run to James McCann that put the Mets on top 9-8 – just a matter of minutes after the Reds had taken an 8-7 lead. Heath Hembree would come on to finish out the 8th and record the final out. He returned for the 9th and got the Mets 1-2-3 to give the Cincinnati bats one more chance to score a run and tie things up or put up two more more and walk it off.

The Reds got one run, but that was all, and the game headed into extra innings. Edgar García made his 2021 debut to begin the 10th. A ground out to 1st moved the runner to third base and that led to the infield playing in. Another ground ball followed, but this one got by a drawn in infield for a single and the Mets took the lead. García got fly outs on the next two batters to end the inning, but the Reds trailed by a run and would need some magic once again to extend or even end the game in a favorable fashion.

García returned for the 11th. Brandon Nimmo singled to lead off the inning to put runners on the corners. He’d strike out Pete Alonso for the first out, but Jeff McNeil lined a go-ahead RBI single into right to give the Mets a lead. Reliever Anthony Banda hit for himself and hit a hard grounder to third base and Eugenio Suárez came up firing home to get Brandon Nimmo by 10 feet for the second out of the inning. That led to David Bell coming out to make a double switch, bringing in Ryan Hendrix to pitch and sending Nick Castellanos out into right field, shifting Tyler Naquin to center, and bringing Shogo Akiyama back to the dugout.

None of it mattered. Hendrix gave up back-to-back home runs to make it 15-10. The Reds offense didn’t have a touchdown in them.

Notes Worth Noting

Vladimir Gutierrez has 4 walks and just 1 strikeout in his last two starts that have covered 10 innings.

If someone has an explanation of why you would pinch run with Aristides Aquino for shortstop Kyle Farmer to then later pinch hit Mike Freeman and insert him as the shortstop I and all of the Reds fans would enjoy to hear it because I am speaking for everyone when I say that it’s tough to make sense of that one.

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

New York Mets vs Cincinnati Reds

Tuesday July 20th, 7:10pm ET

Robert Stock (0-1, 4.50 ERA) vs Wade Miley (7-4, 2.80 ERA)

162 Responses

  1. gregmlb

    The whole organization from the owner the 26th player on the roster is an absolute joke. The Reds have surpassed the Bengals as the worse run franchise in the 3 major sports. I’m embarrassed to say I’m a Reds fan. I wish there was a way just one game no one went to the game and no one watched on TV.

    • DK072257

      Votto declining
      Suarez cant hit his weight
      The bullpen has lost 3 of the last four game
      Sloppy play on the field
      Garrett stinks
      No ownership accountability. Ownership sits on its hands doing nothing at all to fix the problem.

      • VaRedsFan

        So when he finally pitches good, and on his game, he is pulled after 12 or so pitches?

      • doofus

        El Tornillo de Corcho: 0 for 6, 2K’s, 9 (NINE!) LOB. On pace to reach 200 K’s for the season, over 30% K-rate; and, just 30 HR and 87 RBI. He would make Dave Kingman blush.

    • Christopher hoeb

      Greg understand your frustration but this team has fought into 2nd place without a bullpen mike moustakas and nick senzel. Management is definitely to blame but not all the players. It is time for Hunter Greene and Nick lodolo to help this team in some way .

  2. Indy Red Man

    Great job Doug! Hang in there!

    I think a blog written by the wildebeests of Africa would produce the same feelings:

    Lion ate Fred
    Lion ate George
    Lion ate Sally
    The herd then changed direction
    Lion ate Mary
    Hyenas ate the other half of George
    We’ll try it again tomorrow

    • Alan Horn

      Votto has been pretty decent this season. I wouldn’t put much of the fault on him.

      • Melvin

        Yeah. Votto has set a pretty high standard for himself in the past and just not able to live up to that for awhile now but still not bad.

      • MFG

        Votto is holding his own but Suarez is just plain terrible.
        I am not real sure why he plays every day because he is pretty much an automatic out. Platoon him and Moose when Moose returns? Platoon Moose and Senzel when they both return?

  3. Jon

    It’s maddening. It’s comical. It’s the Reds bullpen. Has there ever been an ownership group/front office that has so clearly said they are trying to win, yet does absolutely nothing logical to address their glaring weakness? It’s not like it’s 2016 and we’re in the middle of a rebuild. Add a couple proven relievers and maybe a SS and you’ll be in business.

    • doofus

      “Has there ever been an ownership group/front office that has so clearly said they are trying to win, yet does absolutely nothing logical to address their glaring weakness?”

      Nuff said.

  4. Schottzie

    Offense isn’t the Reds problem but Suarez is now second in the majors with outs created and has to be one of the top with 180 LOB. For reference Winker has left 140 on base while Christian Yelich (in about 100 less plate appearances) has 60 LOB. This could be a very fun trade deadline if the Reds become sellers and add to the current core. At the very least, they could open up slots for their young players to play.

    • jon vera

      should sell.suarez,casteonos,miley,gray,moose,akiama etc etc.

  5. kevinz

    Shows need Pitching Talent.
    Along with a good Pitching coach.
    Then a good Manager to manage that talent Correctly.
    Always how it has been.
    So hopefully can sure up the BP.
    Not happening this season though.
    6 runs from SP does not help either.
    Just based off this game alone.

    • Alan Horn

      All the hoopla over the pitching coach and the Bodie guy. I haven’t seen much tangible evidence of fruit of their works. You have to wonder if it is just hype.

      • VaRedsFan

        Well…they are making the guys spin it more, which is causing injuries. When guys used sticky stuff it was easier, now they grip tighter and causing tendons to stretch.

      • Alan Horn

        Interesting. I have always thought the tighter unnatural grip caused injuries.

  6. Slicc50

    Man I am actually MAD over this game. LOL. I feel like an idiot. Just someone answer me one question…..please. Why is Suarez allowed to hit .170 and hit a few HR’s and still play everyday? I mean he is KILLING this team! It should have been a win in 10 innings!!!!!!

    • Alan Horn

      Terrible ownership and management from top to bottom.

    • Melvin

      Well don’t feel too bad. A Hall of Famer named Johnny Bench was kind of asking the same questions last night.

      • bug

        >>>A Hall of Famer named Johnny Bench was kind of asking the same questions last night.

        Yes he was. I’d give anything if Bench were the manger. He would not put up with these inept hitters and pitchers. Bench was the one who used to look over at Sparky and basically say with his eyes,..”Get this bum off the mound!!!” And of course, Captain Hook would oblige him. Neither Bench (nor Sparky) would put up with Suarez and several others,..especially any pitcher that nibbles and is afraid to throw strikes, and hitter that can put a bat on the ball. No manager should have endless patience for that kind of incompetence. Bell has no clue. No excuse for putting up with this degree of futility.

    • VaRedsFan

      all of his replacements (Senzel/Moose) are hurt…or their name is mike freeman.

    • Dave

      I know that today’s power hitter isn’t practicing his bunting. And I’m not a fan of the bunt 90% of the time, it’s a net negative. But yesterday SCREAMED for telling Geno to bunt (or try) when it’s extra-innings, runners on first and second, and Geno is 0-5 and batting, what, under .180 right now? For the love of all that’s holy, Geno was an automatic out in that situation, and likely TWO outs. It would have been better to strike out failing to get the bunt down. And if Bell was absolutely to afraid to give the bunt sign to him, put someone else in that will at least TRY.

      And as for swinging on 3-0 counts after the previous batter walked…sigh. I’m old, I know. But you aren’t winning. Try some fundamentals.

  7. Jim Walker

    “If someone has an explanation of why you would pinch run with Aristides Aquino for shortstop Kyle Farmer to then later pinch hit Mike Freeman and insert him as the shortstop…..”

    Looking increasingly to me like Farmer despite continuing grind out some big PA and play good defense, is also playing hurt. He well have aggravated whatever is ailing him on that outstanding leaping grab of the high bouncer and throw to 2b get a force out tonight. But why AA ran (for Farmer) instead of Freeman who knows? I suppose to theoretically get him to the plate sooner in an ensuing inning.

    • Jim Walker

      Bell has been dealt a poor hand with his bench over the last 3 games to go along with the perpetually poor bullpen hand. However he nonetheless has made a number of curious decisions lately in utilizing what he has to work with.

      For instance with a 1 run lead and 6 outs away from a win on the heels of 3 tough losses over the weekend, why didn’t Bell come with his hammer (such as he is) Hembree and to start the 8th and try to close out the game but then turnaround and use Hembree for 4 outs after in a trailing situation? The ripple effect is that Hembree is probably limited to short duty Tuesdays.

      • Maloney63

        I agree. Should have tried to get two innings out of Hembree. Osich has just been getting pounded lately…even the outs he gets are very loud outs. And when a game goes to extras all the bullpen problems are just compounded. It’s hard enough to find pitchers to try to get thru innings 6-9! Extras??? Forget it!

      • Westfester

        My feeling is they’ve determined Hembree is just not good at multiple inning runs. Sitting down between innings must not work for him. Cowboy mentioned it was really difficult for relievers to sit down and come back out because they rely on adrenaline.

    • MFG

      Jim, I think you are right about Farmer possibly hurting himself on that play.
      Kyle Farmer is a gamer though and keeps grinding.

  8. BatsLeftThrowsRight

    Is Castellini saving money on the grounds crew? The infield is like rock hard concrete. How many opponents balls have hit the infield hard only to pop over the Red’s defenders the last four games?

    This team has come out the second half outplayed, outhustled and outmanaged. Too many negatives this team has to correct. Time to sell, that’s just reality. Geno Suarez must be traded, just to get rid of his salary. Who cares who they get in return for him.

    • weigarp

      How about offering former All Star Suarez to the Dodgers for their underperforming former All Star Cody Bellinger? Who would say NO first?

  9. Davy13

    The Reds are sellers.
    Suarez stinks!
    It does not have to be this way.

    • Alan Horn

      I can’t see this team competing. Non existent BP. Huge hole at 3B. Non producing bench. Over management by the manager. Farmer has been pretty good at SS and Barreos is not far away but 3B and the BP are beyond awful. India, Naquin and Stephenson have all been pleasant surprises and Votto has been good. Winker and Castellanos are all stars. The nucleus is there but there has been zero effort to address the holes (3B and the BP).

      • Davy13

        Alan, thank you for interpreting and expanding so clearly my succinct sentiments about the mismanagement of this team (and I mean the FO).

  10. Slicc50

    Another thing, why was Vlad allowed so much rope? If I was manager, Tony S. would have been brought in early in the 4 th inning. Isn’t he supposed to be the long man? Was he sent down and I missed it?

    • Indy Red Man

      7-3 he was rebounding maybe, but then 2 run shot to open the 4th. Anyone could see he had nothing, but Bell left him in for another run. Just one of 10 dumb things he did tonite

    • Jim Walker

      Don’t bet against Santillan making that start Hoffman is supposedly going make given the way TS has been spotted in limited duty.

      BTW, Santillan threw 23 pitches Sunday an inning of work. That may have played into tonight.

      • Slicc50

        Ok I didn’t know that. I’m working 55-60 hour weeks right now and I’m missing some things. Thanks.

  11. Gpod

    Explain to me why you would think bringing Hendrix into the game was a good idea….it was his 4th straight day to pitch in a game…what the heck did Bell think he was gonna get out of him??!!

      • Maloney63

        Preferable to 2 HRs!! Or maybe Bell just wanted Hendrix to put the game away for the Mets so he wouldn’t have to run any more relievers out there in more extra innings!

  12. Jon

    Tell me again why any notable FA is ever going to sign with the Reds unless it’s a massive overpay (see Moustakas and Akiyama). Castellanos has got to be regretting his decision now, though he will likely be gone by this winter and cash in with a large market team that isn’t afraid to spend money to win.

    • weigarp

      The three players you listed show the Reds are not unwilling to spend. However, small market teams have a limit for spending, especially in these COVID times. The Reds 122 million dollar payroll is middle of the pack of all MLB teams. Unless they are willing to trade some of their top prospects, I don’t see much BP help coming.

  13. Indy Red Man

    We have a leadoff man atleast! Now see what you have in Barrero, Vlad, Aquino, Schrock, and any other young guys. This season is toast

    What does Arb 3 for 2022 mean for Naquin? We just pay him arbitration salary and he doesn’t go free agent? We should try to keep him if the price is right!

    2023 is probably the target, but maybe next year if they keep Castellanos? Otherwise blow it up good! I’m sure Bell will be back for better or worse. They could try Greene and Lodolo and let them learn with the big boys! Atleast give Bell some quality guys that can spot start or relieve for 2-3 innings. It feels like he has no relievers now that aren’t getting blasted by pitch 20

    • Jim Walker

      I wonder if it is an inaccurate presumption on most of our parts that Bell is even interested in coming back? He was hired by DW; and, lots has changed since then starting with DW’s abrupt departure and the dumping of talent over the offseason.

      Tonight was not a good night for Bell; but, overall he is doing what he needs to do to impress other organizations. They know just how bad a hand he has been dealt by his front office yet here in middle almost late July he has the team at +2 to .500.

    • Gonzo Reds

      There won’t be a 2022 season. Casto, if he’s smart, will opt in and take the guaranteed $. If he opts out he’s not getting paid in 2022.

      • beelicker

        No season = no pay, guaranteed or not

      • Jim Walker

        Could be there will be a very long lockout but could also be that when the smoke clears it will be to a player’s advantage to have been under contract during the lockout vs being a free agent at the end of it. Both player and team options will probably have to be declared before a lockout; but, I would doubt there will be any top tier signings before ahead of it.

      • beelicker

        I think the QO is gonna be around $2o mil, which if he timely locked that in before any lockout would also then negate draft pick compensation for the next round of FA negotiations (and who knows how all that deadline stuff will play out?)… and which would mean 1 potential more Reds’ season … it’s a 3 dimensional poker game for sure


  14. CFD3000

    I’ll start by saying I did not watch the entire game (and thank goodness) but I may have to go back and study the managerial moves in this one. I recognize that a manager can’t call for good relievers if there aren’t (m)any but it felt like Bell was just looking for someone to lose this game. It worked, eventually. And some of the substitutions make no sense on the surface. Perhaps Farmer is hurt and couldn’t run. But then why Aquino and not the fast infielder Freeman? If you had told me that the first five batters would reach safely by hit, walk or HBP 18 times in this game – Yes, 18 – with 4 errors by the Mets, I’d have said they win in a rout. But obviously not. I have generally not been too hard on David Bell or the front office this year but this one is squarely on their shoulders. The offense did more than enough to win tonight, but a weak and weakened bullpen – that’s on the front office – and awful use of that pen – that’s on Bell – handed this game to the Mets. This one was embarrassing.

    Oh and Johnny Bench is right – it’s time for Suarez to join the Louisville Bats to find his own bat. On top of that, according to Fielding Bible there are a whopping 11 players in all of Major League Baseball with a worse Defensive Runs Saved total than Suarez (one of whom is Tyler Naquin). That’s really bad. Suarez is just hurting the team.

    A tip of the cap to India, Winker, Votto and Naquin tonight. And Johnny Bench. Not much else that’s positive. Thank goodness they play again tomorrow. Go Reds?

  15. Indy Red Man

    We did get to see a major league SS that made Suarez look like Ozzie Smith. That guy was batting the ball and and laying on the ground and rolling it)))))))) I’ve never seen anything like that at the high school level even.

  16. Redhaze

    Why does Shogo start again this season? 0 Hr and 7 RBI!!!!!!
    Why is Freeman playing instead of Schrock????
    Garrett got a standing ovation tonight for completing an inning.
    Krall said he is waiting for everyone to get healthy. We have been waiting three years for Senzel to get healthy. Krall has shown zero confidence that he put a winner on the field. His best acquisition has been Naquin.
    The trade deadline will come and go and Reds fans will be as disappointed as we were this off-season when they refused to address the bullpen and shortstop.

    • beelicker

      Saurez #1 in games played with 9o Farmer’s 88 #2 … Winker and Castellanos both 86

    • DataDumpster

      Where is Shrock anyway? Guess I forgot about his “slightly strained calf when rounding the bases injury” on June 1. No problem, 10 day IL. Nearly the same day of the Moose “bruised heel injury”. So, nearly 2 months for those injuries not to mention the Senzel and Lorenzen foibles that still don’t have any endpoint.
      Makes one wonder if life is better off the field than on for some of these players and/or the David Bell wellness programs are just another sideshow.

      • beelicker

        Shrock doesn’t really play shortstop and which Freeman is a viable backup theoretically necessary to the gimpy Farmer there

  17. Indy Red Man

    Geno 2 for his last 30 and thats going into the AS break with some confidence after that bomb vs Hader. When they throw something away…..he doesn’t even lean out there to get the ball anymore? He just hacks at it where it is and misses it by 2 feet. Eye problems? Nerve issue or something? Give him some IL and have him fully tested.

    If he goes somewhere and hits .235 with 35 HRs/100 and obp over .300 at $11/mil then they’re going to look pretty stupid, but this is the worst season I’ve ever seen for a “marquee” guy. He’s mentally beat

    • Jim Walker

      And really given the rules of extra innings and that the Reds were going to start their 11th with a ghost man on 2b was it really the smart play to take that out at the plate versus turning the DP and having 2 out nobody on down a run versus 1 out and tied but runners at 1B and 2B?

      Teams still just don’t get the changes in tactics they should consider as home team with that ghost guy on 2B against them. Let him score if necessary. Just stop anybody else from reaching in the process then let the visitors sweat out the ghost situation knowing they aren’t guaranteed another AB.

      • beelicker

        A run had already scored and a DP would have ended the inning there if they could have turned it

      • beelicker

        Runner had also prior advanced to 2nd via defensive indifference

      • Jim Walker

        You are correct. Too many innings too much alike at the end of a too long day for me in many ways; and, I did not take the time to check the play by play before hitting submit.

      • beelicker

        It was twilight zone time by then anyway lol

  18. JayTheRed

    I just don’t know … This team is so frustrating I… sigh.. Don’t worry Reds fans St. Louis is only 1 back of us on our way back to the cellar.

    The batters have to be demoralized by this bullpen.. Just yuck.. I don’t know why I’m still following this team.

  19. GreatRedLegsFan

    Unfortunately it’s not possible to overhaul a complete bullpen. Out of the current 9 pitchers, only one deserves to be in the roster (Hembree). By the time Lorenzen, Sims and Antone return it’ll be too late to save the season. Also, until Senzel or Moose return, I’d rather play Farmer 3B and Freeman SS, it’s just embarrasing now seeing Suarez playing so bad everyday.

    • Maloney63

      Schrock should be up here playing 3B every day until Senzel comes back. Schrock would get more hits in a week than Geno does in a month!

      • Alan Horn

        Either him or Lopez. You could even put Senzel there until he gets hurt again. I think we need to move on with Moose. Maybe there is some way we can get KC to take him back.

  20. Reddawg2012

    It’s crazy to think back to last week and how excited I was for the 2nd half of this season. Fast forward a few days, and now I just want it to be football season. These Reds really do know how to make it hurt.

    Is Suarez guaranteed a starting spot until the end of time?

  21. Redsvol

    Losing art warren and then Michael lorenzen in first game back has been a killer for bullpen. Moved everybody in bullpen up 2 spots in tile importance. Too many injuries to overcome in bullpen and I agree with others they didn’t do enough – or keep enough- in offseason to the bullpen.
    Suarez fall is depressing. He needs a change of scenery. Farmer is hurt and doing his best to avoid the injured list. Need shogo, Aquino, and nick to start hitting better. Scouting has caught up to vlad and he needs to adjust or go to pen. Great game by India and naquin.

    • Jim Walker

      “Farmer is hurt and doing his best to avoid the injured list.”

      And they have a guy, (Garcia) Barrero, they already know can handle the SS job defensively at MLB levels who is one of the hottest bats at all of AAA over the last several weeks yet won’t pull the trigger on bringing him up. He is on option. All it takes is a phone call and transportation to Cincy. Simple move, Farmer to IL; Barrero called up to fill the roster spot.

      Meanwhile, Nick Senzel takes ground balls at shortstop, apparently prepping for a trial there at MLB when he returns, allegedly “in August”. It is going to be very interesting to see how they juggle Barrero and Senzel if Senzel goes to AAA for rehab.

      • Hotto4Votto

        I saw that about Senzel getting reps at SS. Both interesting and somewhat frustrating. The Reds and SS position recently has been a jumbled mess.
        2018 Reds: Senzel gets an audition in ST but we’ve decided he’s not a SS. 2021 Reds: After playing multiple positions and suffering multiple injuries, let’s see how he looks at SS now. 2016 Reds: Suarez is not a SS, let’s move him to 3B. 2021 Reds: Wait, he shed a few pounds? Let’s try him at SS even though it’s been more than 5 seasons since he saw regular time there and wasn’t super great to begin with. 2020 Reds: Farmer isn’t good enough to be our everyday guy, let’s call up a guy from A-ball instead. 2021 Reds, Farmer’s our guy. 2021 Reds: Barrero needs more time in the minors to develop. 2021 Reds 3 months later: Should we call up Barrero?

      • VaRedsFan

        @HFV… Funny, depressing, and true all at the same time.

      • Bill J

        Haven’t we heard a 1000 times Senzel can’t handle shortstop from the coaches. Were those just lies?

    • Randy in Chatt

      which Nick are you referring to that needs to start hitting better?

  22. TR

    Well said, Doug. If I’m still around, I’m looking forward to Castellini’s answers to our questions in 2024. At one time the Reds led 7-3 and the Mets practically hand the game to the Reds with 4 errors. Game is tied in the ninth inning at 9-9 and the Mets closer walks the first hitter on 4 pitches, then the next hitter, Barnhart, instead of waiting him out, swings and misses at the next three pitches, 2 of which were out of the strike zone. The winning run dies on third base. Final score 15-11 Mets. What a ‘Ruin Your Night’s Sleep’ type ballgame.

  23. Votto4life

    There could be some good opportunities for the Reds at the Trading Deadline. They have a good core of young players and could add to that core by dealing Castellanos, Miley and maybe Gray. This could set us up nicely for 2022 and beyond.

    The problem is I have ZERO confidence in Nick Krall. Has he made any acquisitions at all? I can only think of Noe Ramirez and Sean Dolittle. Am I missing anyone?

    • weigarp

      Geez… If you trade Miley and Gray, whoever replaces them won’t be as good and the BP would have to go even more innings. That’s a recipe for disaster.

      • Votto4life

        You’re right, my comment is based on the premise the front office will address the bullpen in this winter. Surely to God they won’t ignore the glaring problem two years in a row?!

    • Reddawg2012

      I’d be fine dealing Castellanos and Gray (assuming you can get enough value that it makes sense), but I would want to hold onto Miley. If the plan is to have Lodolo and Greene in the rotation next year, it would be nice to have that reliable, veteran presence in Miley. I’m a big fan of Mahle and Castillo but both have had some pretty major ups and downs. With that said, no one is untouchable for the right price.

      Generally though, I agree with you. There is an opportunity to improve an already solid core for next season, but sadly I have no faith that Krall is the man to get it done.

      • Alan Horn

        I still think Castillo is the ace provided they don’t mess with him again. I am beginning to wonder if our pitching coaches are all they are cracked up to be. I can’t think of a single pitcher other than Antone that they have taken and made better.

    • VaRedsFan

      If they move Nick C. They must FORCE the other team to take Geno or Moose.

    • RedAlert

      Spot on – Krall doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing

  24. vared

    Here’s an idea for Bell: when you have somebody in a groove from your bad bullpen, let them pitch. Last night Brach and Garrett both looked great – especially Garrett.
    On this particular night Garrett was lights out – but no, let’s go get Osich. When you decide all of these guys are going to pitch it’s a certainty one of them is going to screw it up.
    I blame this loss n Bell over managing – again. Never should have got to extra innings.

    • Melvin

      I’ve been thinking and to me Bell is equivalent to managing as Farmer is to SS. Farmer can do some nice things at short but really isn’t a major league SS. Well seriously, while I know some would accuse me of insulting Farmer, lol, Bell can do some good things but really is not a major league manager. He just doesn’t know how to win consistently. Unfortunately, Big Bob, I believe until he proves me wrong, is just fine with both of them.

  25. Brian Rutherford

    I feel so let down but not by the team. They kept coming back after starting in a 3-0 hole. I’m not upset at the guys in the bullpen because I know they are trying their best. The issue is that most of them don’t have the stuff to get out good MLB hitters on a nightly basis.

    Owning a team like the Reds should come with a contract with the community/fanbase requiring a certain level of effort and financial input. I really feel bad for guys like Votto who have given their entire career to this organization and have nothing to show for it. Part of me hopes he gets traded to a team that is in it so he gets a chance for a ring. It would sting like heck to lose him, and I wouldn’t watch or listen to another Reds game this year, but this current mess is just frustrating to watch.

    • Doc

      And what would the contract require of the community, financially speaking?

    • doofus

      ” I really feel bad for guys like Votto who have given their entire career to this organization and have nothing to show for it.”

      Uh, he will have taken home something well north of $225 million, there is that.

  26. Doc

    BP gives up 9 runs in 9 innings, says the headline. That would be a 7.00 game ERA since two of the runs were unearned.

    Headline did not mention that the SP gave up 6 earned in 4 innings. That would be a game ERA north of 13.50. Two bad the BP didn’t pitch the entire game. The 9 scored by the Reds in regulation would have been enough to win.

    • KDJ

      Don’t boast about an ERA of 7.00. Remember that BP guys only face a batter once . . . often it is only once or twice per season. BP ERAs should be lower that SP ERAs.

  27. RedsGettingBetter

    There would be a lot to say after last night’s painful loss but I am going to mention these folowing points that in my opinion will lead to the Reds crash this season:
    Bad handling of the players by Bell.
    Not having a starting SS that makes a AAA player like Freeman a star substitute on the team and a substitute like Farmer a starter.
    Have an AA-AAA level bullpen.
    The eternal injuries of Antone, Sims, Lorenzen, Moustakas and Senzel.
    The eternal slump of Shogo and Suárez.
    Let You say whatever you want about ownership/FO related to spending money… I think it is not matter to them

  28. L Jones

    A lot of talk about the extra innings decision making, but I’m not hearing anything about the 9th inning. I feel that was the biggest mistake of the night. Castellanos was apparently ready to go in the game, since he came in in the 10th defensively. So when we were choosing a pinch hitter with the game tied, a runner in scoring position, and two outs in the bottom of the 9th, why PH Freeman instead of Castellanos? THAT was the chance to win the game outright and not worry about extras. Would Castellanos gotten a hit to walk it off? Who knows. But since he was clearly available for extras, he should have been the best option to win the game then and there.

    • beelicker

      He was also described as swinging one armed and wincing in pain, so actually participating was a last resort. He could have pinch run for Farmer but the gamesmanship of using him for a decoy apparently overweighed that?

  29. Mike

    It’ll be interesting when Moustakas and Senzel come back, who sits on the bench while Suarez continues to strike out and hit into double plays….

  30. JayDubz

    I have to hand it to people. This comment section is always the epitome of even keel.

  31. Hotto4Votto

    The Reds have a AAA bullpen. That’s on the FO for not giving this team a chance. This team fights and continues to climb back in games only for the bullpen to blow it back up. The team deserves better than what they’re getting. And, while Bell has shown he can motivate the team to keep on fighting, he’s been making some head scratching moves lately. Seems to be over managing and not just making the simple moves. It’s likely due to having poor options and trying to make something happen, but it sure hasn’t been working lately. Like the old saying, you can polish a turd, but it is still a turd.

    • Scott C

      No bullpen and it is time to bench Suarez, having a .176 non hitter at 3B and a 220 hitter at Short really short-circuits any rally we get going.

  32. BZ

    The quotes by Bell after the game have me speechless. The man is in over his head.

    On why he pinch ran Aquino and hit Freeman

    “Aquino and Freeman are both pretty even with the way they run. So it was more of a choice of who we want to take the at-bat if that spot came up.”

    On why Castellanos wasn’t used in the 9th or 10th

    “We wanted to make sure it was a very, very important spot.” (Apparently bottom of the ninth and tenth aren’t important enough)

    “Really, a lot of times you’re in these situations with extra innings, you’re trying to extend the game. As long as you can stay tied, you have an opportunity.”

    The dude’s goal is to extend games in extra innings…

    These were not from an Onion article, they are from CTrents post-game on The Athletic.

    • VaRedsFan

      Thanks for posting. It tells you so much about the manager

    • RedAlert

      He really said these things !!!!! Wow just wow . Bell is an absolute clown – completely and utterly clueless. How is he even managing ANY team in MLB !!!

  33. JB

    Last night might have been the worst managed game I’ve ever seen on both sides. When one manager made a lousy move , the other said “Hold my beer”.

    • BZ

      The problem for us Reds fans is that ours was made by our manager and theirs were made by the bench coach.

  34. Mark A Verticchio

    I reluctantly watched Bells interview following the game and it was obvious he had no clue what was going on during the game. He could’t answer a direct question and din’t seem to understand what was being asked. It is clear this man is in way over his head, the front office has not done a good job but I know I could do a better job handling this team than Bell has done. I have to wonder what the players like Votto honestly think. Just one glaring example is running Aqiuno instead of Freeman another is taking Winker out of the game, I could go on and on but what is the use.

    • Jim Walker

      Bell is human just like all of us. His head could well be spinning a bit after the last 4 games. Maybe he blames himself for the Lorenzen situation or took a beating about it from within the organization. Maybe he did not want his already shortened bench (Castellanos/ Farmer injuries) further shortened by sending out Lopez as the move to activate Gray versus shipping out an ineffective bullpen pitcher. And so on and so forth……

      • Stoney

        Then Bell should not be managing this team. The decisions he made last night were just terrible and there were many of them which resulted in the loss. I feel for the players who played hard. Bell and Suarez are just brutal to watch right now. It has been great to watch India and Stephenson this year but you need the right man to lead them. Bell is not that man.

  35. Doc4uk

    Suarez problems are now approaching the last 150 games. Doubt anything changes We are seeing who he currently is as a player.

    Freeman , Akiyama, and Aquino are not big league players and have never been in the past.
    Time for Barrera and Friedl and maybe Hopkins.

    I agree with a previous post in saying Hembree is the only BP arm who is semi consistent although his ERA is still above 4! Osich, Doolittle, Hendrix, Brach, and Santillan should all be at Louisville.

    Mahle and Gray are five inning pitchers. Add Lodolo and Greene as their four inning relievers ASAP Get them some MLB experience!

    Bring up Dauri Moreta and Ashcroft What do you have to lose at this point . Work toward the future This year is lost

    • doofus

      How about Nick Howard? 2.25 era in 24 relief innings in Chattanooga? 35/12 k/bb, .191 BAA, 1.85 GB/FB with 8 saves in 9 opportunities.

      • Jim Walker

        I recall Tracy Jones in his more serious days as a sports commentator and the late Doc Rodgers both often pointing out that every player personnel decision tends to elevate or depreciate not just the player’s standing but ultimately the standing of the people pushing that particular player for advancement or demotion.

        I have also heard both say if a player doesn’t have a “special friend” looking out for his interests in these discussions, he will never get an even break. My guess is that Nick Howard hasn’t quite won back any special friends yet following his meltdown. Same for Brandon Finnegan who arguably hasn’t pitched any worse at AAA than a number of the guys being cycled through the Reds pen.

  36. Pablo

    New marketing pitch: The Reds bullpen, brought to you by Rumpke.

    Instead of bobbleheads, give away little dumpsters that can double as cigarette lighters.

    • doofus

      “Instead of bobbleheads, give away little dumpsters that can double as cigarette lighters.”

      Nice, I like this. Little Castellini and Jim Day can cut a commercial to hark this new giveaway.

    • JayDubz

      “Now fans, the Rumpke Dumpster call to the bullpen…”

  37. Indy Red Man

    Senzel needs to play as soon as he gets back. Barrero? What are they waiting on? Farmer is worn down and banged up. Schrock can atleast come off the bench. The pen isn’t fixable so this season is over, but they need to start sorting it out for next year. Shogo>Aquino? Are they blind? Shogo is overmatched.

    Nobody will want Moose at his salary so that should force Geno out the door. They won’t get anything back. They might have to give up a prospect like the Homer deal just to move him, but its in the best interest of both parties. He’s just mentally mailing in alot of at-bats now. 2 for his last 30 and the rbi double vs Milw was after they missed an easy strike 3. Upper decking Hader has been it!

    Finally the Castellanos situation. Personally I would give it about a 65% chance he resigns! His numbers at gabp are ridiculous! He’s less then .800 ops on the road and he likes it in Cincinnati! He’s a leader here! If you add Barrero, Moose, and Senzel, and Shrock to the current roster then the offense shouldn’t be the problem.
    Bullpens are also fixable in an offseason. A couple of decent arms can start a chain reaction in a positive direction. Greene and Lodolo should be able to help in some capacity next year. I’m thinking 150 innings combined. They have to be better then what we have now.

    Overall the future looks pretty good imo, but I’m anticipating something from Castellanos camp like “He wants to concentrate on this season before he makes any decisions”. We probably won’t know til the winter sometime.

    • Doc

      It amazes me how a thought process comes up with a AAA SS whose first MLB opportunity resulted in a worse offensive performance overall than Suarez or Farmer are putting up, and another AAA player who was not tearing it up in his MLB stint before injury, and an aging player who was not exactly setting the league on fire in the half season he has played this year before injury, can suddenly be moved into starting roles with the declaration that the offense shouldn’t then be a problem. It boggles the mind.

      • Indy Red Man

        Barrero was 22 last year? Thats why you bring him up now and see what he can do! You might try comparing Barrero to Urias with Milw. That kid was hitting .219 on June 16th, but they stuck with him. Barrero has talent! Moose? He’s got to be better then Geno. Senzel is another option if he ever stays healthy. We have a bunch of DH candidates so that works in our favor compared to other teams next year.

        Bottom line, we all know their resources are limited so where would you spend? Offense or pitching?

      • SultanofSwaff

        True, but in Barrero’s case at least you’re investing in development. He has All-Star upside and will deliver plus defense while figuring it out with the bat. If this year is circling the drain, why not start next year’s sorting process now by giving him 200 at-bats? With Farmer and Suarez you’re throwing at-bats away, much like they did with Peraza over 1700 times.

      • Indy Red Man

        It amazes me how a thought process comes up with a 23 yr old, who homered in the AAA futures games, would be permanently judged by a short stint at 22.

        Adam Frazier career milb average of .294
        Max Schrock career milb average of .301

      • kevinz

        AAA SS never reached AA ball.
        Before his shot last year.
        Now has Done Well at AA.
        And so far in AAA.
        That is the difference.
        Will he be Better Now?
        Who knows but should be more ready now.
        Compared to last season.

      • Alan Horn

        Didn’t Barreos get rushed last season skipping both AA and AAA?

    • AllTheHype

      @Indy, You are way over-estimating Geno’s trade value. He is owed over $38m and is sub-replacement level since 2019. He is a bottom 3 offensive performer in all of MLB. Every team knows this is not a slump, not anymore.

      No prospect, short of Greene or Lodolo, can be included in a trade to convince teams to pay a significant portion of that $$ due.

      Moose has a bad contract as well, but not nearly as bad as Geno’s.

  38. steven ross

    Not saying anything about Suarez which hasn’t been mentioned to the point of ad nauseam but Bell just can’t keep rolling him out there as a starter. We’re not far from August and he’s batting .170! 2 for last 19 with a lovely 0 for 6 last evening. Yes, an occasional HR but I’ve noticed boos from the home crowd now. When and “if” Moose returns, it’s time to sit Suarez. Won’t happen but it should.

    • Indy Red Man

      Actually 2 for his last 30 and the double vs Milw was after they missed an easy strike 3. He hasn’t hit a single since July 6.

  39. SultanofSwaff

    54IP, 54 hits, 25 walks, just 34 strikeouts, 11 (!) home runs allowed. Gheesh.

    I said it a month ago……Gutierrez is not a starting pitcher. He’s better suited to the bullpen where his 2 pitch mix will either play up or he washes out….doesn’t affect the franchise one way or another. If Greene isn’t getting the callup, Santillan should take Vlad’s spot. Tony has more upside as he has a credible 3rd pitch. Give him 10 starts……I mean, a 2nd round pick deserves as much or more opportunity than Gutierrez and all the other trash relievers. There’s a good chance you’ll have another Mahle at the end of the day.

  40. Jason

    I think the worst move of the night was pitching to McNeill in the 11th. The next “hitter” up was Banda and they were out of position players. Why pitch to McNeill when you can pitch to a relief pitcher?

  41. Chris Holbert

    We keep hearing how all the players love to play for DB. No wonder, if you have an average or below major league career to date, come to the Reds and you play practically everyday. Every player, every game seems to be the continuing goal, regardless of the outcome.

  42. Mark A Verticchio

    I have a hard time believing that the players are not aware and upset about Bells mistakes, but they are to professional to speak up. I wish one of them would speak up, it might let the front office know how poorly this team is being managed. You would think they wouldn’t mind using Bell as a scapegoat to take some pressure off of them, even though they are even more to blame.

  43. Mark Moore

    It just makes it very hard to watch these guys day after day. You ride the highs we did when we scored a bunch only to have your guts ripped out the next morning to find out it all slipped (or ran) away.

    I’m still a Reds fan, but I’m back to leaning toward some strategic selling or dumping at this point and try to bring some focus on 2022. But that’s just me.

  44. Redgoggles

    I’d vote for CTrent to interview Dick Williams, I think that would be more revealing at this point.

    • Jim Walker

      Amen, but is Dick Williams ready to break the code and talk freely?

      After all, as far as is known publicly his family still owns a (combined) larger % of the Reds than Castellini but Castellini holds the managing partner share. It could be the Williams’ are the ones who neither want (or can afford) to put more money in but at the same time don’t want to see their equity position lessened.

    • Old Big Ed

      Plus, Williams is the guy who committed $80 million to Moustakas and Akiyama, neither of whom of are any use to the Reds. But for those two awful contracts, they wouldn’t have had to ditch Iglesias or Archie Bradley, and maybe could have addressed the SS situation.

      • JayTheRed

        just want to say I am pretty certain that if Akiyama got even double the playing time he has been getting, which is almost none, he would be producing a lot better than he has thus far this season.

        Not that I want to take out any of our other OF”ers since they are the biggest reason our offense has been much better this year. lol.. Maybe try Akiyama at SS. haha…..

        Don’t know if people here know this Kyle Farmer is hitting right around .300 the last month cause he is getting more playing time. He has had some pretty clutch hits too.

  45. beelicker

    Maybe get Bryan Price to be the moderator

  46. Old Big Ed

    1. The core of this team is good enough to compete, but the supporting parts are deficient. Castellanos, Winker, India, the catchers, Votto, and Gray-Miley-Castillo-Mahle, IF they had a better supporting cast, would be good enough to make a run over the next 2 years.

    2. To accomplish this, the ownership group is going to have to make a capital call on the limited partners, which I know that they have been loath to do. But they owe $38 million to the disastrous Eugenio Suarez; the hard but correct decision is to DFA him or palm 10% of his contract off on a team in the off-season. They owe another $10 million to Shogo, who is not as good as TJ Friedl in AAA. Moustakas has a bad contract through 2023. The team will have to pony up about $80 million extra to sign Castellanos over the next 4-5 years. Rebuilding the bullpen will cost some money. And they will have to pay Winker and some of the starting pitchers quite a bit more soon. They can be competitive, and profitable, but they will have to bite the bullet and make a capital call to do it, of probably about $25 million each of the next two years. Or, of course, sell the team.

    3. The supporting cast for the core needs to be much more athletic and much better defensively than what they have now. If the Brewers series taught us anything, it is that the Reds are very slow, and they give away far too many outs and bases. Jose Barrero for Farmer at short, which needs to happen this week, will solve some of that. Senzel at 3B for Suarez will help as well, but only if Senzel can stay healthy.

    4. Centerfield is a generational problem for the Reds. Senzel is too brittle, and neither Aquino nor Naquin is a true centerfielder, although they could slot over into LF. Michael Siani’s injuries have hampered his development, and he likely won’t pan out. At the very least, they should fish for a glove-first CF this off-season.

    5. The Moustakas contract (thanks, Dick Williams!) is also a major problem for the Reds. Moose, Votto and Winker fill the same slot as turtle-slow LH hitters with no defensive value. One can DH next year, and one can play 1B, but they don’t need all three of them, especially with the need to give Tyler Stephenson many of those same ABs at 1B and DH. Votto isn’t going anywhere, and Winker shouldn’t go anywhere other than to first base fielding camp. That leaves the Reds owing $32 million in 2022-23 for a guy that they can’t use. Given that he will have a very limited track record from 2020-21, no team will take on any part of his contract.

    6. The farm system is in pretty good shape, even if no position player other than Barrero (and Friedl/Schrock/Lopez as utility guys) can be expected to arrive before 2024.

    7. The fan base will not tolerate another rebuild. The revenue base in a changing era may never recover, if they do a fire sale now or in the off-season and build for 2024. It is capital call or sell for this ownership group, and a new owner may find Nashville to be a more profitable home.

    • Jim Walker

      At my stage of life, Nashville vs Cincinnati doesn’t really make a hoot of difference to me as long as the team is available via cable or streaming as my home team. However, I’m guessing the Cardinals might seriously bark about an MLB team in Nashville.

      • doofus

        But, Nashville is the Red’s TV market. At least it was in 2017 when I was there, and watched a couple Red’s games on the local network.

      • Jim Walker

        @doofus MLB really needs to get its markets figured out doesn’t it? A couple of summers ago, I was able to stream the FSO Reds TV production live from poolside at my stepdaughter’s in SoCal. I’m guessing that was because somewhere in my authentication stream, FS Ohio or Spectrum Dayton, OH was tagged as my home location.

    • Jim Walker

      The thought has occurred to me that the choice of Akiyama over Aquino as the injury replacement for Castellanos may be as much about trying to showcase him ahead of the deadline as about Bell’s penchant for RH/LH platoon match ups.

      I think they have to get as much back as possible on the Suárez contract versus a flat out DFA. In the DH world somebody is going to value him to a degree as a low in the order power threat.

      • Old Big Ed

        I don’t think any team would pay much for the projected contributions of Suarez, Akiyama and Moustakas. I suppose a team like the Rangers might offer a bit more than minimum salary for Suarez, but I can’t identify one team that would have an interest in Akiyama at any price. If Moustakas had much of a track record for the last two years, there would be bidders to take on at least some of his contract. But why risk anything on a slow, injury-prone 33-year-old with a career OPS+ of 101?

        The Reds have to eat those contracts. The sooner they realize that is what they’re gonna be served, the better, so that they can move on. Don Corleone wanted to hear bad news soon, and this ownership group needs to accept it, too.

    • MBS

      This team wouldn’t keep relatively cheep players Iglesias, and Bradley, but now they’d be willing to DFA Suarez, Moustakes, and or Akiyama.

      Castellanos will not re up, and the Reds are not likely to pony up. If you really want to retool this team, it starts with shopping Castellanos, Miley, Gray, and Castillo. If you get an overwhelming offer on any pull the trigger now. If not we can make moves in the off season.

      Offseason moves:

      Castellanos will net us a Compensation pick.

      Gray packaged with Suarez would unload our burden, and still bring back something useful, but not great.

      So in 22, 3 of our 5 biggest contracts would be off the books, and after 23 the remaining 2 of 5 will be off the books also. They could use that money to extend the young core of players.

      • Old Big Ed

        1. You and I may understand the logic of retooling, but the average fan will not and it would be a massive PR blunder to do a White Flag set of trades now or even in the off-season. They would get a comp pick for Castellanos, but they need to be seen to have made a good-faith offer to keep him.

        2. Nobody, and I mean nobody on the entire planet including his own mother, wants Suarez’s contract. Packaging it with Gray gets the Reds much less than just trading Gray. And trading Gray may assure that Derek Johnson will find another place to coach.

        3. Castellanos would have a big contract, but not a bad contract. Moustakas has both a big and a bad contract, albeit only a two-year one. Suarez has a dreadful contract, because he is a dreadful player making 8 figures for the next 3 years.

        4. The reason the Reds surrendered on Raisel Iglesias and Archie Bradley is because they had blundered the year before in signing Moustakas and Akiyama. But for those two signings, they likely would have kept both relievers.

        My point is that they need to write off these bad signings now, and not let them continue to fester. Accept that reality now, make an accounting/financial accommodation for those contracts, and move on. If ownership can’t raise the capital to address it now, then they need to sell the team.

        That doesn’t mean that the Reds have to dissolve an otherwise potentially competitive team.

        I would be surprised, in fact, if ownership is not actively looking for a buyer right now. A potentially competitive team is a more valuable financial asset than the same team starting yet another rebuild.

  47. DataDumpster

    This is a game to remember, for sure. Even the Cowboy was confused on most of the changes already mentioned. He then said Winker had to be taken out of the game, but the reasoning went over my head. David Bell said earlier he likes this ghost runner rule, “the strategy involved is tremendous.” Yes, Aquino pinch runs, Freeman hits, Winker goes to the bench, and Nick doesn’t get used in the 2 key situations. How about a strategy of using anyone who can finish a clean inning a chance to throw another one? The typical bullpen performance from Bell is to use 5 pitchers for one inning or less and seeing 3 of them fail. In an 11 inning game, the failure rate just goes up by one. This nail biter was in reality a manager driven blow out augmented by the same sloppiness, Geno problems, and pitching foibles that define this year. The Reds were outscored in ERs by 13-4.
    Hope was stirred up only to see that Counsell and the Brewers far outclassed the Reds on the rebound. Now, with a depleted Mets team losing 4 of 6 from the Bucs with a first game manager and atrocious infield play embarrass the Reds. David Bell has got to go. These last 4 games seemed like an extended repeat of the playoff debacle last year. Just when the kitchen gets a little hotter, the team and manager just fall apart. Why is that?

    • Old Big Ed

      “How about a strategy of using anyone who can finish a clean inning a chance to throw another one?”

      This. Why take out an effective pitcher? All managers overthink things, but Bell is in the 99th percentile on overthinking strategy.

      • TR

        Overemphasis on analytics leads to overthinking strategy. As Johnny Bench said the other day in the broadcast booth, young hitters today are not taught the technique of hitting to all fields, instead emphasis is on pulling and hitting to the strong side. It’s a new era.

    • RedDawg

      Thanks for mentioning the dumbfounded move of a double-switch taking Winker out of the game. It’s as if DB thinks they are required. Too often he neutered this team leading to Freemanesque at bats late in ball games.

  48. Beaufort Red

    It’s time to make real moves. Bring Barrero up. Probably as good as Farmer is defensively and probably a better bat. Farmer has done all we asked of him, but I think he’s getting worn down. The largest problem is Suarez. Other than a couple of good spots, he has been the biggest rally killer I’ve seen in a long time. Nothing against Krall and Bell but when Bench says he needs to go down to work out his plate presence, that should open some eyes. I say let Schrock play third until Senzel can play his natural position. I feel that our infield of the future is Senzel, Barrero, India and Votto (until we find his replacement.) Why wait. Moustakas was a bad sign but at the time seemed good. Shogo is not a major league player, another bad unforeseen signing. Ichiro ain’t walking through that door. Bring up Friedl or Siani as another outfielder and let Aquino go. I’m afraid that the front office and/or Bell feel pressure to play Suarez because of the bad contract. Kinda like Homer. My biggest fear is at this rate the Reds will have no shot at keeping Castellanos. Who wants to play for a losing franchise that resembles a rudderless ship.

  49. Bet on Red

    Waiting for the next set of Roster moves today. The good news. The mets bullpen is in a worse shape for the immediate past then ours is. They have a TBD tonight, while our stopper is going out. Votto, Winker Naquin, India all seemed to have found it simultaneously. Not going to Knock bell for trying to keep Nick C. on the bench as long as possible because it was clear after that swing he was still feeling it. Stupid brewers. Am going to blame bell for the Freeman Aquino fiasco. If the Trade deadline was today, would still be buyers. Need a couple people for the bullpen ASAP

  50. JayDubz

    I could be wrong, but I had assumed that maybe Bell used Aquino over Freeman because he was planning on the double-switch and needed a place to pencil in Garcia. That would have given him another 8 batters to win the game before having to scrape the bottom of his bench for another pinch-hitter. Plus, Aquino is a better defender in the interim. It also looks like he and Freeman are a coin flip in OBP. I’m not saying that I agree – but we could’ve at least had a reasonable discussion.

    I don’t fault Bell on Castellanos. It’s pretty clear that Castellanos isn’t healthy. Bell obviously isn’t going to say that he didn’t use him sooner because he’s injured though.

    The bullpen moves are peculiar, but it’s also not a good bullpen and has been living in borrowed time for the past couple weeks. It’s hard to fault Bell

    Otherwise, y’all are bipolar. One week you’re excited. The next the sky is falling. No one expected the Reds to be in it. They’re still not technically out of it. The ASG disrupted a rhythm. Just ride the wave, enjoy a strong young core, and keep sending hate mail to 100 Joe Nuxhall Way, Cincinnati, Ohio 45202 c/o The Castelini’s.

    • JayDubz

      Also, the Brewers have 9 games left against the Giants and White Sox, and 3 games left against the Reds. There’s opportunities to make up ground (especially with some luck), but our backs are increasingly to the wall.

  51. Bet on Red

    Line up posted. Nick out. Aquino gets the start agaisnt the righty. Suarez survives another day. No word on any bullpen moves. Mets starter looks like it will be another crazy over

    • LDS

      Stephenson 0-5 and out of the lineup. Suarez 0-6 with 9 strands starting once again. Bell is a bid fan of mediocrity. This team and its management just isn’t serious. Now down to less than two weeks until trade deadline and not a single material move, other than calling up two guys that could have pitched better. Though Alainz at the MLB level hasn’t had any success. So let’s try again.

    • beelicker

      Freeman would be your other option at 3B? There are literally no other infielders besides who doesn’t catch

      • LDS

        I’ll take my chances with Freeman. Well into the second year of Suarez’s decline. Or call Lopez back up. Regardless, Suarez shouldn’t be in the lineup.

      • beelicker

        Saurez maintains his team lead in games played with 91 … Farmer #2 with 89

      • Bet on Red

        Lopez still has another 5 or 6 days before he can be recalled

      • LDS

        Exactly, Suarez leads in playing time. Tells you everything you need to know about why the reds are were they are.

  52. Moon

    I think the Reds are a decent team but they have little depth, And injuries have killed them this year. Right now you could argue the three best bullpen pieces, Antone, Sims, and Lorenzen are on the sidelines. Senzel, Moose, Blandino and the army of other key players that have spent time on the IL this year. Aquino, Shogo, Castellanos, Gray etc. I believe the Reds took a chance they would be healthy this year. They believed Suarez would be a credible player and could fill in at short. They though Garrett would be dominant bullpen piece. They picked up a couple guys like Doolittle they thought still had some gas in the tank. The results have been a mixed bag. Reds have been lucky with India. I do not believe he was in the plans at the beginning of the year. Stephenson has been another surprise. Castellano and Winker have outperformed. But no one could have predicted Suarez would be as bad as he is. No one tought Garrett would struggle as much as he has. Luis Castillo struggled terribly for months. So did Votto. But as I look at the team when healthy they are pretty good. They do not have a true closer and need one. And they need a shortstop. And they now need to do something about 3b and Suarez. It has been clear for sometime he is not the answer but I am not sure the Reds have anyone else they can turn to at this point. But the FO has hurt this team. They let Bauer and DeSclafani walk. They could not afford Bauer and at least got a draft pick. But they got nothing for Disco. They traded Josh van Meter for Archie Bradley. Bell only used him for 8 inings. His ERA was 1.17 so he was doing well. But three months after trading him the Reds let him go for nothing. So in essence they ended up giving up Van Meter for nothing. They traded Iglesias for Noe Ramirez. They had to send cash to the Angels as well. 3 month later they cut Ramirez and he went back to Angels. So here the Reds, at the end of the day, paid the Angels to take Iggy. When you look at the aggregate and consider the state of the Reds bullpen right now, you have to believe there were probably better moves the FO could have made to make the Reds better and at least addressed the depth problem.

  53. Rednat

    i usually stick up for ownership but i was really shocked no moves were made for relief help. i feel the fans have “held their end of the bargain” by showing up for games. we are in the top 10 attendance wise this year.

    makes you wonder if ownership thinks there will be another shutdown this year with the new delta variants?

    • LDS

      If there’s a shutdown due to the new “delta variant” then we really have become sheep. The bottom line is that the COVID shutdown had nothing to do with the Reds transactions. That’s just an excuse. Castellini was a lousy owner long before COVID.

  54. Rob

    Reading these comments, I think all or most of us are suffering a severe case of .500-itis. That’s what the 2021 Reds essentially are: a .500 team. And a .500 team is the most frustrating kind of team to follow because it’s constantly building up your hopes, then letting you down with a thud. A hot streak followed by a cold streak. Win 2 out of 3, then lose 3 out of 4. Win a series, then get swept in the next one. We got a glimmer of hope when they pulled to 4 behind the Brewers, and now here we are all ticked off. Expect this kind of thing the rest of the season. This is far from a contending team.

    • Indy Red Man

      Contending for what is the question? Contending for the NL or WS? No, but winning the NL Central would be right there with just an average pen.

      I’ll lowball it and say they could’ve won 6 more games w/an average pen. Lowball it again and say only 1 more win vs Milw. That puts them at 55-40 and the Reds at 54-40.

      And thats considering all the millions they’re paying Moose & Lorenzen to do nothing and Geno/Shogo to do less then nothing. Plus injuries to Antone & Sims.
      You would think Antone, Sims, Lorenzen, and Garrett would’ve been enough to atleast make the pen average. The other guys stunk, but the back end of the bullpen should be something you can fix on the run. If 3 of those 4 were effective plus HH & Brach then they would’ve been in the fight atleast.