After the Cincinnati Reds 8-0 loss to the Milwaukee Brewers on Sunday, manager David Bell noted that reliever Michael Lorenzen would head back to the injured list. He had just returned from a shoulder injury, but he suffered a hamstring strain while scoring a run on a sacrifice fly on Saturday night.
“Michael is going to to on the IL with a right hamstring strain,” Bell said. “No timetable to speak of yet. After seeing him today it made sense to it made sense to put him on the IL tomorrow.”
Lorenzen also spoke after the game. He also stated that he wasn’t sure on a timeline for recovery, noting that he had never had this kind of injury before so he wasn’t sure on that front.
Nick Castellanos making progress
A tough weekend of losses to Milwaukee was made worse by the injury to Lorenzen, who is going to miss at least 10 days. But the team also lost outfielder Nick Castellanos – at least temporarily, after he was hit in the wrist by a pitch on Friday night. After running the bases he was replaced mid-game in the field and didn’t play on Saturday or Sunday. Following Sunday’s game, there was potentially some good news.
“He made progress overnight,” said Bell of Castellanos. “It’s much better today. He was not available. But based on the amount it felt better today compared to last night, I think that’s a good sign for tomorrow.”
The Cincinnati Reds will host the New York Mets beginning on Monday night at Great American Ball Park. And they’ll miss the best pitcher alive in Jacob deGrom, who was placed on the injured list on Sunday. The offense could certainly use the boost that Nick Castellanos brings. After he left the game on Friday the Reds offense went into hibernation the rest of the weekend – though to be completely fair, the Brewers pitching staff (and defense) had a lot to do with that, too – they are really, really good.
The Reds will do next to nothing to fix the holes on the roster by the 2021 deadline. Why, because ownership is very risk adverse (and cheap) and will not allow the front office to be creative.
The Reds will not deal (sell) sought after players presently in the organization for valuable assets (players that can help next year) by the deadline because ownership still wants fans to buy tickets to the remaining games and therefore does not want to think they are throwing in the towel. We have seen this scenario played out during the entire tenure of Bob Castellini.
Reds fan base are smart enough to know that ownership gave up on the season by not getting a real shortstop this past offseason and dealing Raisel Iglesias and Archie Bradley for nothing.
Marge Schott (principal owner 16 seasons): 7 winning seasons, one .500 season, 1 World Series Championship.
Bob Castellini (principal owner 16 seasons): 4 winning seasons, ZERO playoff games won.
Which principal owner actually did more to live up to the infamous “Bob Castellini” letter to Red’s fans?
For some reason, I cannot explain, I hope I am incorrect about all the above.
partially you are. Castellini has not won any playoff series but we have won game one and two of the 2012 NLDS
I stand corrected. You are right.
i agree with you doofus. I think Marge was a very good owner. next to the BRM ERA, the Marge Schott Era from 84-99 was one of the best and most entertaining in reds history.
i felt Marge also had the “pulse of the city”. she knew the type of player/manager reds fans liked. Bringing back Perez, Rose. then signing guys like Dave Parker, just brilliant.
i feel it is like a cat and mouse game with Castellini and us fans. I also feel ownership does not do enough to engage fans that live within the city limits. therefore the Reds are a big market team on the weekends and a tiny market team during the weekday
i can understand ownerships perspective. Why should we spend more money if only 10-12 k are going to show up on a tuesday night game? I think if we could continue to bring 100k in over the weekends and then bring in 20-25 k during the week ownership would be willing to take more chances. i order to do that ownership has to get people living in the city limits more interested in the reds.
Rednat, “Build it and they will come.” If the owners build a good team and they win, the fans will come to a game.
I can’t believe anyone thought Marge was a good owner –she was cheap and clueless.
I agree too Marge Schott at least tried to give the fans of Cincinnati a winning team. I have seen only a few seasons where it seemed like the Castellani group has tried to make a winning team. Schott had a bad reputation for her shenanigans’ but at least she was a kind person. I know I met her in person twice and she even remembered me the 2nd time. and that was 2 years after we met the first time in the stands behind home plate. She said she liked to be with the fans. I doubt Castellani has ever sat with the fans. The only owner who was worse was Lindor while I have been been a Reds fan in my life. I wish they would sell the team to someone who wanted to truly bring winning baseball back to this city on a consistent basis.
If they can’t find at least a decent reliever 3.50 to 4.50 ERA and decent stuff then they are not even trying at the deadline. Wonder if the Yankees would give us Chapman back lol…
Doug, Might the player replacing Lorenzen be Barrero?
more relevant, is there a service time issue consideration process point with Berrero?
This i can find this out vvv but don’t quite understand the implications:
Rookie Status: Still Intact through 2021
2021 Contract Status: Pre-Arb Eligible
Service Time (01/2021): >>> 0.092 <<< • Arb Eligible: 2024 • Free Agent: 2027
meaning there's some point soon at which +79 more service time days (172 days = 1 year, so as to not accelerate into 2 years) will no longer be possible?
Bee, if Barrera was called up today it would not affect his service time . Including last year with what is left this year. He still would not have a year service time.
Questions answered: Sellers
That happens when you trade away pitchers because they’re too good .
That happens when you trade away pitchers and get nothing of value in return.
Sunday was another bit of ham handed roster management by the Reds which did nothing to support their on the field effort. Despite knowing that Nick Castellanos was not going to be ready to go, the Reds elected to option Alejo Lopez as the move required to open a spot for Sonny Gray. This reduced them to a 3 man bench. Then Kyle Farmer apparently came up unavailable also which cut the bench to just Aquino and Tyler Stephenson, both RH hitters.
It is understandable the Reds did not want to officially place Michael Lorenzen on the IL until they confirmed the severity of his hamstring injury suffered late Saturday. However, it was extremely clear the odds were overwhelming Lorenzen was headed for the IL.
By my count, the Reds had at least 4 relievers who could have been optioned but then immediately recalled on an emergency basis to replace Lorenzen if/ when he was moved to the injured list. Most prominent in this group was Josh Osich who had pitched in both previous games versus the Brewers and was likely not available today anyway.
Using Lorenzen as a PR was just incompetence or over managing whichever you prefer. Not benching or resting Suarez occasionally further adds to the list. It may be the time to trade or release Garrett. Stephenson should be resting Votto all along also. Bell is going to run Suarez and Votto out there every day no matter what.
They always used Lorenzen as a pinch-runner, etc. They have no speed so he was an asset in that department. He could’ve got hurt just as easily with a sudden sprint to cover 1B. He’s just injury prone. Senzel-itis. The Twins are talking about giving Buxton 70 mil and he’s always hurt. You have to factor that in and move on.
It does such though. I think that and Antone going down was the final straw.
He wasn’t used as a PR though. He went from the mound to RF.
He was the extra inning runner, because he made the last out the previous inning.
Once the league figured out he could hit a little, he’s basically been a .200/.283 hitter with 1 HR since 2019. He’s probably a better option than Shogo and Freeman vs a lefty.
He’s not that good of a relief pitcher either.
He makes 4.4 million this year and is a free agent next year. I’m fine with moving on after this year
A. He never got steady at-bats so nobody knows. They quit giving him cookies, but he never got the chance to adjust to their adjustments
B. 164 innings in 2018-19 with a 3.01 era. Thats pretty good! You put stock in statistics from 2020 at your own peril. Example….they were convinced AG/Sims were ready for high leverage.
Bottom line I agree with you though! You put 82 innings of 3.01 era with pinch-running and very good defensive OFer and thats worth some money, but he’s getting older and more brittle it seems.
Lorenzen wasn’t used as a PR. He made the last out in the 9th, that made him the runner at 2B to lead off the inning. Do you think it would have made any sense to put a slower PR in his place? It would have been a starting pitcher. They also had 0 outfielders available if they pulled Lorenzen, who is also one of our better defenders on the team. The sole position player was Freeman, who was better used as a bat, if needed the following inning.
I agree the FO has not managed the roster well and has handcuffed the team. Your point about optioning a reliever over an position player (when they’re already short handed) is spot on. That reliever could be immediately recalled when a decision was finalized on Lorenzen. Having only two bench players available against the team your chasing in the standings is unacceptable. It’s bordering on negligence.
“Having only two bench players available against the team you’re chasing in the standings is unacceptable. It’s bordering on negligence.”
Thanks for writing my concluding sentences I was too tired to properly get done earlier.
This among other things in just confirmation of a flawed organization starting at the top.Reds just never seem to get it or stay prepared to get it and it goes all the way down to the players.Its a whatever approach to whatever happens.I am trying to not be so hard on our manager and some of his decisions and our players as well on making the same fundamental mistakes over and over but why should we expect anything different.The Reds didn’t even field a full team in 2 of the 3 games we played against a team we are chasing in the standings.We end up with Miley hitting in the 11th inning of game two with the bases loaded.No way to sum this up other then it is what it is and it not going to change unless it does.Trying to draw to an inside straight when playing with only half a deck most nights and we still are above 500.As fans we can see what playing with a full deck could bring us but we can’t fix it and the front office won’t.Its insane but whats more insane is I will follow and cheer the win and boo the losses knowing it won’t get any better.
Osich lacks options so he would have had to have been waived. Who are the other 3 pitchers and do they have options remaining? Perez I imagine has options. For pitchers that’s a minimum 15 day stay in the minors according to what I’m reading…
Fangraphs says Osich has an option available for 2021. It is is good for the entire season no matter how many times he is back and forth
The minimum stay does not apply if a player is recalled to replace someone put on the injured list.
sell,sell sell. NC, BARNHART,MOOSE,GRAY,WINKER,MIELLY,AQUINO AND SUAREZ. BUILD FOR 2023.
The Red’s ownership/front office is still traumatized by the pandemic and also hesitant with baseball’s upcoming player negotiations. So I have little hope that much Red’s trading, selling or buying action is going to happen especially in the needed strengthening of relief pitching.
I’m a big Lorenzen fan and normally I’d say play him as much as possible. After all he is the best all around outfielder on the team. With the state of our pen this is anything but a normal year. He is much too valuable to be used any other way other than pitching. In my view no outfield, no pinch running, no hitting any more than necessary.
“Chaim Bloom follows in a recent line of Red Sox executives (Theo Epstein, Dave Dombrowski) with a history of being aggressive at the Deadline. Bloom has extensive history buying and selling. Unlike last year, when he smartly turned Brandon Workman, Heath Hembree, Mitch Moreland, Kevin Pillar and Josh Osich into a batch of prospects,…”
Perhaps one of these years we will read this about a Red’s executive?
To paraphrase Ben Franklin, ‘Neither a buyer nor a seller be…’. Do not play the game for two months of the season. Snap decisions, decisions made when angry, are rarely good decisions. Keep a long term continuity plan in mind. Listen to offers and look at available players, but only deal if the deal makes the team better for the next 3-5 years.
Yes, the Brewers have been buying. Does anybody think the Brewers are going deep into the playoffs, or that they are setting them selves up as the favorites for the next 3-5 years? I doubt it. If you deal on a one and done basis, you are unlikely to get the one, but you almost assuredly will get the done.
I believe there is a fine line for teams in markets such as Cincinnati and Milwaukee between one and done versus keeping the team in a situation where it can (and does) jump on opportunity which presents itself for any given season. The Brewers organization has evolved into an organization that gets this. They are elastic and flexible whereas the Reds often seem clueless.
I don’t know Doc. Adames is just short of 26 and controlled for the next several seasons. Certainly, that’s more forward looking than anything the Reds FO has done this year.
The Reds have managed to stick with India at 2B but then that’s largely from necessity since neither Moose nor Senzel could stay on the field. 😉
Adames yes, but Yelich won’t get Doolittle & the Cabbage patch kids (sounds nicer then Dumpster Fire Boys) to kick around every weekend.
He’s a glorified Shogo now and they still owe him $26 mil/year from 2022-2028. Jackie Bradley is terrible and he’s getting $12 mil/year.
They let Trent Grisham go and he’s a stud for the Pads! He’s 10x better then JBJr. Everybody makes mistakes.
This year is somewhat frustrating, but atleast they’re drafting better and have a young core of talent again!
Adames did win the division for them though. The league will get a better read on him and .976 ops with Milw will come back to Earth, but he did almost single-handedly carry them when they started their run.
Who picks up somebody else’s backup SS and has them batting 3rd during a 20-10 run to win the division? Its not often that Tampa gets the raw end of the deal, but he’s really good! The Reds didn’t have arms to trade though unfortunately
“Never confuse Motion with Action.”
? Benjamin Franklin
There is a lot of the former and a great antipathy of the later in the executive offices of Joe 100 Nuxhall Way.
“Neither a borrower, nor a lender be” William Shakespeare.
At +62 run differential, it’s clear the Brewers aren’t going anywhere. Likewise for San Diego (+96). The Reds are now -8, so being 3 games over .500 feels a bit lucky. At least we’re not Miami, who’s +16 yet 13 games below .500. Crazy stuff.
Nothing comes easy with this team. If they don’t make the playoffs I think the biggest reason will be that they wasted most of the season roster sorting, trying to figure out roles on the fly and sacrificing games in the process. Sadly, it’s a yearly tradition. To that end I’d like to see the front office get a head start on next year’s sorting by bringing up Barrero/Lodolo/Greene and letting the chips fall where they may…..at least it will be forward thinking. It’s the responsible thing to do short and long term as these players are an upgrade to anyone in front of them on the depth chart. Question is, will the front office have the guts to park high priced veterans on the bench?
I agree for the most part. Get Barrero up yesterday, especially. Greene should be MLB rotation ready by August; but, Lodolo lost the month to the blister issue. It is an ironic situation in that Greene may be ready but short on available innings while Lodolo may not quite be ready but have innings to burn.
However since Greene arrived at AAA they have cut his pitch count from the ~100 pitch per outing level down to the 75-80 pitch per outing level. A person has to believe they are saving the pitches (innings) for future use of some sort.
While it’s easy to blame David Bell (and he does deserve his fair share) this season was lost last winter when our cheap owner refused to speak any money on a shortstop or bullpen.
To the extent the Reds have been successful this year was despite ownership and not because of it.
yes, an inconvenient truth for the ownership because it has put pressure on them they thought would never be there due to the sell off of the bullpen and lack of bringing in a SS etc.
In one of his articles, CTrent is saying the Reds will likely be calling up Edgar Garcia to take Lorenzen’s spot. I think that may be a good sign for Nick C. as I’m not sure they’d want to stay two players down on the bench for too long.
Who is Edgar Garcia?
That was my response too. Apparently, he was with the Rays in ’19 and Phillies in ’20. He has a 3.38 ERA in AAA.
They’re just shuffling castoffs at this point.
Garcia seems plausible. He pitched for the Phillies in relief at age 22, probably before he was ready. Gave up too many HRs and BBs, but had a good K/9 in AAA and MLB that year.
He got traded in August 2020 (probably from the Phillies alternate site) to the Rays, and got thrown to the wolves for 4 games. But for his last game against the Yankees on August 31, in which he gave up homers to Gio Urshela and Luke Voit (who led the league in HRs), he was OK.
The big thing this year at Louisville is that he has not yielded a HR yet in 24 innings, while maintaining a 10.9 K/9. He is still only 24. He isn’t Mariano Rivera, but he probably merits a chance.
Terminate or send down Akiyama, Doolittle, Garrett, Brach, Perez, Hendrix, Osich, Santillan, and Freeman. None bring any consistency to the table as things stand
For now Platoon Winker ( with Friedl ) , Votto ( with Stephenson) , Suarez ( with Lopez) , and Naquin (Payton) When and if Senzyl returns than he is the CF platoon and if Moose returns than he is the 3B platoon.
Bring up and live or die with young players who are hot. Barrero, Friedl, Rodriguez, Payton,and Shrock. Move up hot players from Chattanooga to Louisville .
Also Bring up relief pitchers Moreta ,Howard ,Garcia, and Scleroler as well as Lodolo and Greene. Use the latter two in long relief (4 innings )with Mahle and Gray who have both shown that they cannot go more than five . What do you have to lose? Obviously what we are doing is not working
Also forgot to mention I would not count on seeing Lorenzen or Sims or Antone before September so no injured help really on the horizon.???
Michael Mariot, 32, Pitcher, needs to be inserted into the Reds bullpen; please and thank you!
I still have the Reds pegged to win 88, which probably isn’t enough though to win the division or get a wild card. If so, the team will have some difficult decisions in 2 weeks based on the trendline. If they play well, you probably owe it to the fan base to ride it out and see what happens. If the team slips back under .500, you have one time opportunity to right the financial ship and free up money to support the wonderful core that is emerging. That singular opportunity is to trade Castellanos (who will certainly opt out)…..but insist the buyer take most or all of Moose’s contract as well. One MVP, one veteran with playoff experience, easy sell? Use the money to lock up Mahle/Winker/India/Stephenson/Castillo.
Nicks splits are so crazily slanted towards Gabp that I think we have a better chance to resign him then most think. He may not get $25 mil/year elsewhere and he seems to like it in Cincinnati. He’ll be 30 before Opening Day next year and his lifetime Ops is only .811. That doesn’t scream huge multiyear deal of course it only takes one team.
As cheap and incompetent as the Reds FO is, if they were to trade Castellanos (and I hope they don’t and ride it out with him), I’d prefer to find a team willing to let us dump Akayama and Moustakis’ contracts on. They’d probably blow a trade for prospects anyway (see Cueto, Johnny). With the 25 mil they’d save, the FO might not trade Gray and Castillo for pennies on the dollar (like they did last winter)
Line up posted for tonight. No Nick. This is the last day that he could go onto the IL backdating to his injury. Hopefully we get a statement saying he can pinch hit or something. Reds lineup indicates the Mets are sending out a righty
multiple roster moves taking place. Perez optioned, garcia and alantiz called up
They DFA’d Jose De Leon and Mark Payton, to make room for Alaniz and Garcia.
DeLeon and Payton DFA’d and Garcia and Alainz called up. Game changers there. Now we don’t have to worry about the trade deadline. This team is going to run away with the division.
Just out of curiosity if Nick C. chooses free agency does the club have the opportunity to put a qualifying offer on him since he hasn’t ever been tagged in the past?
yes, and you can guarantee they will slap that QO on him as well
I would hope that N.C. would see the writing on the wall and want to stay here regardless! Cincinnati has so much more to offer him AND his family. He could be so pivotal with the great young talent. Our park and lineup him was made for him. Why do you think they are throwing at him and India! They are the cogs that set table so to speak. Cant wait for August and September when the river causes the hot air to rise!