Cincinnati needed a win on Thursday afternoon to avoid being swept by Arizona. The offense did their part, scoring 11 runs, but the Reds bullpen fell apart once again as they just couldn’t get anything accomplished on the day as the Diamondbacks scored six runs in the 10th inning to sweep Cincinnati.

Final R H E
Arizona Diamondbacks (9-10) 14 14 1
Cincinnati Reds (9-9) 11 13 1
W: Smith (1-1) L: Sims (0-1)
Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

The Offense

Jesse Winker got the bottom of the 1st inning started with an opposite field solo home run, giving him two home runs on the season. That was the only hit the team got until starting pitcher Jeff Hoffman lined a single up the middle to lead off the 3rd.

Cincinnati didn’t have another hit in the game until the 6th inning, but that’s when the Reds offense went to work. Nick Castellanos led off the inning with a home run. Joey Votto followed up with a single and then Eugenio Suárez homered deep into left-center to tie the game up at 4-4.

After Arizona took full advantage of the Reds bullpen and grabbed an 8-4 lead in the top of the 7th inning, Jesse Winker pulled Cincinnati a little closer with his second homer of the day – a 2-run shot, making it 8-6. An out later Joey Votto homered for the 299th time in his career to make it an 8-7 ballgame.

The bottom of the 8th inning got started in the right way as Jonathan India cashed in his first career home run in the best of ways, tying the game up at 8. That was all they’d get in the inning. The game remained tied, though, and the Reds had a chance to win things in the bottom of the 9th. They didn’t, going 1-2-3 to send the game to extras.

The Bengals Reds needed a touchdown in the bottom of the 10th inning to win this one after the bullpen imploded for the fiftieth time in the series. Joe Burrow didn’t walk out of the dugout. Third base coach J.R. House, who once threw 10 touchdowns in the state championship game, and at one time held the national record for career passing yards in high school (he’s currently 4th all-time) didn’t step into the batters box, either.

The offense didn’t go quietly, though. Tucker Barnhart picked up an RBI single to make it 14-9. Tyler Naquin the singled on a deflected ball off of the pitcher to put two runners on with one out. That led to a pitching change as Stefan Crichton couldn’t continue pitching. Tyler Stephenson hit an absolute laser off of the glove of the third baseman, but the deflection was to the shortstop who was able to get the force out at third for the second out of the inning. Jesse Winker followed with a walk to load the bases for Nick Castellanos, who singled in two runs to make it 14-11. It wasn’t meant to be as Joey Votto struck out to end the game.

The Pitching

Things were going well for Jeff Hoffman until the top of the 3rd inning. Josh Rojas singled and then pitcher Taylor Widener reached on a fielders choice and throwing error by Hoffman to put two on and no out. Pavin Smith then doubled to tie the game up at 1-1. A sacrifice fly followed and made it 2-1. Hoffman then walked Josh VanMeter to put runners on the corners. That worked out as the next pitch resulted in a comebacker that Hoffman turned into a 1-6-3 double play to end the threat. Hoffman settled in, mostly, from there, throwing five innings with just those two runs coming across the plate.

In the 6th inning the Reds turned the game over to Carson Fulmer. He proceeded to walk Josh VanMeter and then gave up a 2-run homer to David Peralta that extended Arizona’s lead to 4-1. Fulmer got the next three batters in a row. He returned in the top of the 7th, but now the game was all tied up at 4-4 after two big home runs in the bottom of the previous inning. Things didn’t start well as Fulmer walked the first two batters he faced before being replaced by Sean Doolittle, who entered the game in a tough situation. After getting a fly out to left field, Doolittle allowed an RBI single to Wyatt Mathisen to break the tie and walked the next batter to load the bases. A 2-run single followed and the flood gates were open as the Diamondbacks grabbed a 7-4 lead. The lefty then walked in a run, resulting in a visit from Derek Johnson. Whatever he said, worked, as Doolittle struck out the final batter of the inning. But it was too little, too late as Arizona doubled up the Reds in the inning.

Sal Romano threw a scoreless top of the 8th inning to keep the Reds within a run and give the offense another opportunity to go to work. They did just that, too, tying the game up. Romano returned to begin the 9th and gave up a leadoff single. With the runner moving on the play, a ground out moved the go-ahead run to second base. Lucas Sims then entered the game in a double switch. The appearance represented the first time he’s ever pitched on three consecutive days as a big leaguer. He got a fly out to left field from Eduardo Escobar for the second out of the inning. He then struck out Asdrúbal Cabrera to keep the game tied and give the Reds the opportunity to walk it off. They didn’t, and Lucas Sims returned for the 10th. A leadoff single scored the runner that began at second to put Arizona up 9-8. Another single put two on and no outs. Sims then walked the bases loaded with no outs. He struck out the next batter, but was then replaced by Cionel Pérez.

He induced a ground ball to shortstop and Eugenio Suárez, who came up firing to get a force out at the plate. Then the wheels fell off as a line drive to center got by a diving Tyler Naquin to unload the bases. A 2-run homer followed and it was 14-8 with a quickness.

Key Moment of the Game

The bullpen allowed eleventy-billion runs. Pick one of the 18 moments involving that.

Notes Worth Noting

The bullpen needs fixing. That’s the note.

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

Cincinnati Reds vs St. Louis Cardinals

Friday April 23rd, 8:15pm ET

Sonny Gray (0-0, 4.15 ERA) vs Kwang Hyun Kim (0-0, 9.00 ERA)

81 Responses

  1. Jon

    Time for Krall to #GetThePitching(version2.0).


      Horrible bullpen. Made Arizona look like the Babe Ruth Yankees. How many more games will the team allow the bullpen to lose?

    • GreatRedLegsFan

      Kind of hard to fix the roof while pouring rain…

  2. Rut

    What a nut punch of a series… Will see how the team responds, but given the next few series this season could get away from the Reds if they do not get it together asap.

  3. Klugo

    Can’t help but wonder how Iglesias, Bradley, and even BobSteve are fairing with their new teams.
    For at least two years the Reds bullpen has been setting records for futility. Keeping up the tradition.

    • James K

      “BobSteve” was traded for Hoffman, and so far that trade seems to be working out well.

    • RedsMonk65

      Bradley is on the IL. Iglesias hasn’t done too well out in L.A. (5.68 ERA). Stephenson has been so-so in Colorado (3.24 ERA).

      • Klugo

        Well that makes me feel better. I guess.

      • 2020ball

        Iglesias – 11 K, 1 BB, 1.11 WHIP

        (6.1 IP fyi)

  4. Old-school

    The Reds couldn’t beat the Tigers in 2020 either – a 100 loss team in 2019.

    Bullpen options in the minors?

    Santillan?Riley? Hendrix?

    When is Gutierrez 80 game suspension complete?

    Going back 4 years, the Reds pitching rebuild was firmly in the hands of Sal Romano, Robert Stephenson, Cody Reed and Amir Garrett.

    Castillo and Mahle and Antone were behind those 4. Predicting pitching prospects is a crapshoot.

    • Sliotar

      Good post, Old-School (as usual).

      That’s why the Astros/Cubs went “tank … draft positional cornerstones … then buy pitching as needed to get over the top.” White Sox have done the same.

      Wonder if the bullpen would be better stocked right now if the Reds hadn’t felt compelled to greatly overpay Moustakas (in dollars and in years) and Akiyama.

      $45 million for those two in 2021 and 2022 combined … plus, $18 million for Moustakas in 2023. Yikes.

      The “rebuild” … such as it was … has started a domino effect that will continue to likely present challenges up to the end of Votto’s contract.

  5. Toby Combs

    Its time for a Managerial change before the reds play their way into last place. The starting pitchers are being pulled way to early. If they cant pitch seven innings which i think they can they dont belong in the majors. That leaves only two innings to turn to the bullpen and nail down the game. One last thing the redlegs have a guy named Hunter Green who is pure smoke at 104mph. Time to bring him up put Castillo in the bullpen Hunter as the starter and start winning.

    • Redsfan4life

      Castillo is not going to the pen nor should he. Greene 104 or not is nowhere near ready.

      • DaveCT

        Greene isn’t even in the conversation. And, as noted, shouldn’t be. He’ll be ready when he’s ready.

      • jim walker

        ?? is what is ready to pitch out of an MLB pen? Hunter Greene is starting his age 22 season. That’s older than Don Gullett, Mario Soto and Jose Rijo were when they started their MLB careers as bullpen pitchers. Each spent at least a season in that role.

        If Greene is going to throw 100MPH+ regularly at high A and can consistently throw strikes, why isn’t he ready to do the same thing out of the bullpen at the MLB level?

        Yes, limit his appearances to the frequency they would be at Class A and keep him on an innings and do the same with his innings and pitch counts.

        If they try him and it doesn’t work, just option him back to the minors.

    • Steven Ross

      It’s April Toby. Have to stretch the starters out and not burn them out. We’re back to a long season. I have no issues with Bell pulling starters in April plus the weather is COLD! This implosion is on the pen.

    • greenmtred

      Whether Bell is a good manager or not, the issue is that the bullpen isn’t performing. He can’t pitch Antone every day, and when pretty much everybody else he has to work with stinks, when they pitch matters little.

  6. VaRedsFan

    Hard to pick a key moment, but when Suarez had to take 1 step and missed that grounder (generously ruled a hit), then bobbled a bad throw on the exchange during the bunt where he still would have gotten the trail runner…..all of that allowed the DBacks 1st 2 runs to score.

    • RojoBenjy

      Here is is:

      “In the 6th inning the Reds turned the game over to Carson Fulmer.”

      Gotta let Hoffman go longer

      • JayTheRed

        Hoffman has done a nice job so far this year. Let him pitch.

    • JayTheRed

      Watching Suarez defense has been tough this early part of the season. Hopefully the reps over there will help him improve over time.

      • Melvin

        Playing SS is not helping his hitting. Too much to think about and can’t relax at least so far.

  7. RojoBenjy

    Doug, thanks for gutting out the recap on this one. I’m sure it was no fun

    • DaveCT

      One TD behind … hahaha. We see you, Doug Gray, developing comedian.

  8. Michael B Green

    I’m sure everyone is as frustrated as me but this is simple. There is no real reason to pull starting pitchers after 80-100 pitches. None. No offense to relievers but most of them were starting pitchers that could not develop a third pitch. My apologgies to the elite relievers.

    This idea of using a bullpen to pitch half of the game – every game – is just insane. The first team to move past this approach will experience better performance before the copy cats mirror this “bold” move. Greg Maddux would have had 9 wins and pitched 145 innings in his best years based on today’s usage.

    My background is in statistics but it currently has way too much sway on the field and with pitching decisions. Starting pitchers should get the chance to work out of their first, second, if not third jams. It is how you build poise.

    No bullpen should be rewarded with 4 innings of work directly after completely blowing the last 4-8 innings of games for Castillo and Mahle.

    Part of the challenge, however, is not building SP’s up to handle 120-140 pitches – something average pitchers did aplenty in the 1980’s, 1990’s et seq.

    I blame the constant usage of bullpens more than I do the performance of the bullpens. You shouldn’t need the equivalent of a line change with relief pitching in major league baseball. The game can and should do better.

    I am an avid baseball fan and I do not care about spin rate or strikeouts. I care about the integrity and strategy of the game. Crash Davis best commented about strike outs.

    • JayTheRed

      I am with you on this. Even in the early 2000’s pitchers were consistently throwing around 120 to 150 pitches a game. There was tons of examples of games last season when Bell would pull a pitcher earlier than really needed to be done.

      This year I am starting to see the pattern again. Let them pitch please. I’d rather see a starter give up a run or two then get pulled than see a bullpen just completely lose the game for us.

      I too hope they make some changes. The bullpen needs to only work 2 or 3 innings at most a night. As for Garret. I have no idea what is wrong with his pitches lately but they need to see what he was doing last season compared to this season to hopefully find something different.

      • Indy Red Man

        150? 120 was alot then. C’mon?

      • jazzmanbbfan

        I’m sure the subject of starters not going deep has been discussed here before many times but that may be one of the realities of this era of baseball. Of the other 7 games on Thursday (14starters), only 4 pitched 6 or more innings. Two threw 6 and two threw 7. If you don’t have reliable arms in the bullpen, you’re sunk.

    • Richard Fitch

      I feel for you Michael, but the fact is, it doesn’t matter whether you care about spin rate or not. For the simple truth is that is where the game is on the ground. Pitchers throw harder than they ever have, and hitters have more information at their fingertips than ever before.

      If you want pitchers to handle a bigger load, you’d have to develop them at 10 years old to play other sports and not devote their arms to baseball 24/7. But that’s not how players are grown now. Fathers have radar guns in the glove compartment of their BMWs and use it to evaluate little Johnny. Youth tournaments are year round. Scouts are everywhere looking for the next teenage phenom. There’s no going back.

      It’s a cat & mouse game now. The third time thru the lineup is a real thing and suggesting pitchers aren’t just strong enough misses the reality of today’s game and the toll velocity takes on the human arm.

      As such, baseball is slowing moving past the idea of roles for pitchers. Whether it’s “starters,” “long relievers,” “closers,” or “openers,” these are nothing more than labels. It’s about performance and specialization today.

      It many not be the game you remember or the game you love.

      But, it’s the game as it is.

      • Wayne Nabors

        Not exactly all true richard,bell is pulling his starters a little quicker than most managers I’ve seen this year and last,bauer comes to mind as a starter that wasn’t on bell’s side on being yanked early

      • RSI

        @Wayne Nabors Cincinnati SPs innings pitched per game: 5.07
        MLB SPs innings pitched per game: 5.1

        So….not exactly true.

      • Old-school

        Reds had a nice 9-6 start and then
        Dbacks sweep hit the reset button.

        Apparently way more to learn.

        That reds sweep by the Dbacks leads to spin rates and then parent lectures to those who have 10 year olds who like baseball to then social narratives on people who own BMW’s to then education on apparently a concept no one understands yet – 3rd time through the lineup – to then velocity damage to major league arms to then a lecture on understanding modern roles

        The Reds bullpen imploded the last 2 days. Thats it.

  9. JayTheRed

    The Offense is doing their job.. They are still scoring like over 6 or 7 runs a game on average which is pretty darn good.
    The starting pitchers are doing a pretty darn good job too, though Castillo has been shaky

    The only thing that puts a smile on my face today is seeing the Cardinals are in last place after today’s play. Lot of loses lately has balanced out that good start we had. Now sitting at .500 which is about as best this team can be I am feeling. .

  10. JB

    Yesterday morning the Reds were in first and now they are tied with the Pirates at 9 wins. Penthouse to the outhouse in one day.

  11. Mark Moore

    Somewhere, Milton is smiling … and that’s a BAAAAAAD thing.

  12. Bred

    From the excitement of the first week to the frustration from the last 3 days is what the big 162 is all about. It is a roller coaster with more ups and downs than the ole Shooting Star at Coney. It’s all about how they respond, and the sticks have not quit. The pen is over worked, some not performing to expectations, and low on quality arms. SP has missed Gray and the performances of Castillo has hurt. DeLeon and Hoffman may each be a 5 or 6 hole pitcher, but they have gotten the ball every 5 days. If the pitching comes around, this team will be competitive.

  13. Scott C

    “The bullpen needs fixing. That’s the note.” That is about as understated as you can get. All three games were winnable with any kind of bullpen.

  14. TR

    Three weeks of the season in the books & a 9-9 record with the Cards, Dodgers, Cubs and ChiSox coming up. Very important the Reds finish these eleven games above .500.

  15. KDJ

    Have Myers, Dibble, and Charlton kept in good shape?
    Just asking.

    • TR

      Unknown, but Reds fans are waiting for the front office to actually make a trade or two to strengthen the bullpen, or else, in terms of competition, it will all be over by the end of May.

  16. Dennis Westrick

    Old (age 68) Reds fan weighing in! As a double-degreed engineer I can do math! Today’s starting pitcher (Hoffman) gave up two (2) runs in five (5) innings with one (1) run being unearned. In the remaining five (5) innings five Reds “relief” pitchers gave up twelve (12) runs. I’ll skip the ERA calcs. In addition, the pitchers (ALL) walked eight (8) batters. I suspect the majority of the batters who walked resulted in runs. One of the main objectives of a relief pitcher is to NOT walk batters especially if your team is tied or ahead. Should be a problem that is relatively easy to correct. Finally, if a team scores eight (8) runs in a nine (9) inning game the probability of winning is 90% or greater. Lots of games to go but much work to be done in correcting the bullpen challenges. Dirty Birds next!

  17. TheCoastMan

    Before this game our Bullpen ERA was 6.00, trailing only Detroit’s at 6.64. I can’t think of a more pathetic BP in Red’s history, although, I am sure there has been one or two.

    In any case, I owe an apology for saying the Reds would be out of it by May 1st if they went into the season with this set of pitchers — due to the mirage of success in the first week of the season, it looks like we may actually get to mid or late May before we are officially out of it.

    • Redlegs1869

      Unfortunately, I agree. Love the Reds and want to believe, but past history says otherwise. Too many dashed hopes accompanied by “maybe next year.”

  18. Indy Red Man

    Not everything is on Bell. Fulmer had a 0.90 era coming in. Hoffman went 3-2 on atleast 5 guys and that drove his pitch count up. Thats on Hoffman. Alot of little things add up in a series like this, but these guys get paid to pitch and they’re walking guys like little league. I don’t know how they fix it? I’m thinking they’ll have to suffer thru this year and try it again.

    I enjoyed watching Korean baseball last year because I was working graveyard and it started at 4:30 am. They have some guys over there that could pitch in mlb. Old Red Dan Straily is over there. There’s a guy Aaron Brooks with a 93-94 mph heavy sinker that could pitch here. He reminds me of a Trevor Cahill type when he was effective in his 20s. Haven’t seen the Japanese league, but the Reds need to find some guys. Sign a guy with real high leverage experience. Garrett? He has a 5.06 career era. He isn’t some star thats off his game. He’s a mediocre pitcher that may/may not return to mediocrity. They’re going to have to scour the Earth to find some arms. This crew is not going to get it done. Maybe Sims, Lorenzen, and Antone could make it work, but they have zero behind them and Lorenzen is obviously hurt and he’s a B grade reliever himself. If you count on him in the 8th-9th then you’re in trouble because he’s a thrower more then a pitcher. The mound equivalent of Suarez. How hard can I throw?

    Bell and the front office needs to do their job. These other guys are not mlb pitchers

    • Toby Combs

      I agree Indy. We can also look at Ownership, you get what you pay for. Makes me I’ll seeing Bauer pitch for the Dodgers, we have paid no one since Votto while watching our stars given to other teams.

  19. Toby Combs

    Castillo to the bullpen lesson to work on his pitches, the opposition has caught up with the change up. Hunter is not ready? Thank you for the reply best laugh I’ve had in years. Get a bat, get in the box against him see what you think then.

  20. SteveLV

    If Garrett and Sims are consistently bad this year (1) the Reds are in trouble and (2) it’s hard to blame anyone for that. Most teams, and most of us, would have been completely happy going into the season counting on those two in the back of the bullpen.

    Antone needs to be used in more frequent, and higher leverage, situations.

    The Reds came into the year a mediocre team. They’re 9-9. Go figure.

    • Jack

      Garrett has a career FIP over 5, truth is he has always been bad.

      • VaRedsFan

        Been saying it for two years…people laughed at me.

  21. Indy Red Man

    Reds hit 6 hrs and lose by 3. Seattle got 1 hit thru 9 and lead 7-3. Weird game sometimes

    Speaking of the bullpen again….why did they let Dylan Floro go? He had a 2.72 era for the Reds in 2018 and 3.26 career era. He’s a HOFer compared to most of our pen. There are dozens of guys out there like that. How did the Reds think this motley crew was going to cut it?

  22. DaveCT

    The bullpen has been fair to good at best but is presently certifiably brutal . And is now cooked going into the Cards series. Formula for disaster.

    Please, may we have some subs from the alt site just give us some innings?

    Please, sir, may I have more (pitching)?

  23. kevinz

    Crappy funk the BP is in.
    Feel like it cannot get any worse.
    So on the Positive Note.
    Mayb it will Improve.
    Now Hope can score on the road.

    • 2020ball

      I like the poetry style posts +1 🙂

      • RojoBenjy

        agreed. kevinz speaks rarely but always thoughtfully

  24. Indy Red Man

    Greene and Lodolo nowhere to be found. Even if they were lights out, the Reds wouldn’t call them up til they’re 23 atleast. Meanwhile Pads 2018 1st rounder…21 year old lefty SD Ryan Weathers is outdueling Walker Buehler so far tonite. 5ip, 1 hit, 6Ks

    Thats the issue. Our first rounders are never difference makers? Atleast pitching wise

  25. Schottzie

    Some stats:

    The Reds relievers have pitched 72 IP, good for 8th most in the majors. Surprisingly, one of the best bullpen’s in baseball also has pitched the most innings: San Diego. Small sample size, but if the Rays showed anything last year, the issue with the Reds isn’t that they are going to the bullpen too often or too soon, it’s that they lack the pitching depth to be successful. You’ll have that when you give away or let go 3 of your better pitchers (Desclafani, Bradley, Iglesias)

    Some more stats:

    Kyle Farmer has 32 abs
    Mark Payton has 4 abs
    Max Schrock 9 abs

    These guys aren’t big leaguers and have combined for 38 outs, outs the reds have basically given to the opposing team, mainly because 1) they like guys who are fun in the clubhouse, and 2) they traded away solid young players to generate buzz.

    I know the bats haven’t been the problem, but Van Meter and Fairchild are actual big leaguers the Reds could be using right now, and Trammell and Scott Moss are players they could’ve used eventually. The lesson here is about depth, a lesson the organization has never seemed to care for since Castellini took over and the “splashy addition” as opposed to the “necessary subtraction” became the MO.

    • Sliotar

      That’s good stuff, Schottzie.

      Naquin will be added to your list of “giving away outs guys” soon enough.
      The strikeouts are creeping back into his game … doubtful the walk rate stays above 10% as it is for now.

      There are seemingly always AAAA guys getting more run they should with the Reds.

    • 2020ball

      I dunno, I guess I just dont like looking back at who the team got rid of as a good meter for where their depth is. The teams bench has been solid overall. The only thing I’d like to see is Blandino with more playing time, Farmer has been about as good as expected unfortunately. Fairchild hasnt even ascended above AA…. he’s been solid, sure, but nothing stands out to me. Plus we have plenty of outfielders.

      The pitching depth is a concern for sure though, and Ive brought up Iglesias enough already so I won’t again (….last time, I promise). Bradley’s been nails so far unfortunately, he felt like an expensive gamble at the time but they needed relievers so it looks bad in hindsight.

      • 2020ball

        I misread stats for Bradley, so nevermind there. But I did try to look him up first! (runs out of room)

  26. JB

    Iglesias has been terrible for the Angels so people need to get off that train. His last 2 years for the Reds were not great. They were constantly digging the home run balls served by him out of the seats. I as well get tired of people looking back on who was traded or let go. Vanmeter is nothing more than AAAA player. He has done zilch in the Majors. People need to move on. Like they say ” you cant move on down the highway looking in the rearview mirror”.

    • Jack

      Terrible? Only 6 innings, 1.11 WHIP, 13 SO in 6 innings. Got bit by a homerun but has been fine otherwiese.

    • Jimbo44CN

      I wouldn’t exactly call Iglesias terrible. He’s gotten 2 out of 3 save opps with 11 strikeouts and one walk. Yes, his ERA is 5.6 but still better than what we currently have as closers.

  27. Pablo

    Sorry if this was already covered but Hoffman was at 88 pitches. Why not send him out in the 6th with a short leash? Sigh……..

    • Jack

      I agree, at this point these guys should be close to normal pitch counts. It may be true that the 3rd time threw the lineup is less successful but that still must be better than that bullpen. The strength is the starting pitching, use it. I don’t care what the rest of the league is doing, their team is not the Reds.

  28. Jack

    I wonder why the bullpen is allergic to throwing strikes and then they throw one and my question is answered.

  29. realist

    Idea: Use position players to finish out games, or fans from the stands cause it couldn’t be worse than what we are seeing out of this bullpen. The Reds should be called the Dumpster fires. If it isn’t the worst hitting in 100 years in MLB history( last year) it is the worst bullpen in 100 years of MLB history (this year). Please sell the team Castallini! Also does the new guy announcing with Barry Larkin ever shut up? He makes Thom out to be an introvert, Geesh!

    • Jimbo44CN

      I like him but have to agree. The never ending meaningless statistics are driving me up a wall. Sometimes you just need to watch the game, not fill every second up.

  30. AllTheHype

    @Jim, Greene needs to be developed as a starter. Putting him in a MLB bullpen does nothing to advance that objective, and only kicks the can down the road.

    • jim walker

      I mentioned Gullett, Soto, and Rijo above because all three ended up being premier starting pitchers after serving an apprenticeship as out of the MLB pen for a year or more.

      I would guess when a guy has absolutely top drawer stuff that working out of a big league pen against big league hitters and learning from the sideline watching starting pitchers may be as effective or more effective at developing as a starting pitcher than toying with guys 95% plus of whom you can put away with fastball anytime you want in the minors.

  31. Roger Garrett

    Reds have basically a new pen vs last year and so far it hasn’t worked out.Sims/Garrett/Lorenzen are the hold overs and 2 haven’t pitched much and one hasn’t pitched at all.We now about Big Sal and his role and we knew that Doolittle’s velocity was down and that he was fly ball pitcher.We added Fulmer and Perez with little or no big league experience I believe.Antone’s stuff is wicked but his he a long guy,starter,closer or what.What is DeLeon and where does he fit in? All of these guys need to make adjustments for sure and Bell has to adjust his thinking as to how and when to use these guys.Right now its not a good idea to try and cover 3 or 4 innings by each pitcher getting an innings since you will find the guy that does not have it.Give the guy another inning if he indeed handles the first one.It gives them confidence and helps to not find the wrong guy.Please do not indentify a closer because we have nobody other then Doolittle that has done it.If Antone gets em in the 8th or Sims does or Garrett does or whomever does give em the 9th as well.My point to this long comment is that we don’t know what we have in our pen.The game will be in the hands of the pen every night for 3 or 4 innings.Match ups aren’t important but feel is more important and right now going by the book may not the way to go.Bell plays a big part in how the pen performs just as he does with the position players.He can just keep using them as he thinks they need to be used regardless of the outcome or change some thing up to see if it makes a difference.Wouldn’t it make sense to use Garrett differently right now just as it would to drop Eugenio down in the line up?Sure it would.We need em both but shouldn’t we take some pressure off until they get going?

  32. Roger Garrett

    Shouls have said match ups are important.

  33. Michael B Green

    Luis Castillo had a 1.42 ERA for innings 6-9 in 2020. Let SP’s pitch deeper into games!

    • Frankie Tomatoes

      He threw less than 5 innings last year in innings 7, 8 and 9.

      There is also some bias in stats like these because the only times guys ever pitch these innings are when they are dominating and also have lower pitch counts. Those are rare events. Forcing the pitcher to throw those innings because of the previous stats ignores what led to those stats in the beginning.

  34. Angelo

    I wonder if a team ever hit 6 home runs in a game that they lost?

    • Doug Gray

      Yes. But the Reds are the first team to ever do it and have a starting pitcher allow two runs or less and still lose.

      • Jimbo44CN

        That is an amazing fact. I still cannot beleive they lost all three of these games.

      • Angelo

        Thanks Doug, Tyler has looked un-hittable and he extended his dominance in his last start. He throws so effortlessly and has the makings of a #1. I am glad the Reds hung in with him.