Francisco Lindor was traded to the New York Mets this afternoon. So was pitcher Carlos Carrasco. In return, Cleveland got back infielders Amed Rosario and Andrés Giménez, pitching prospect Josh Wolf, and outfield prospect Isaiah Greene.

While the Mets did send back some talent, Cleveland made this move to shed salary, pure and simple. After the trade, the payroll for Cleveland is under $50,000,000 for the 2021 season.

For the Cincinnati Reds, this deal means that one less shortstop is available. And it was arguably the best shortstop in baseball. The Reds have stated that getting a shortstop for the 2021 season was one of their top priorities. While the Reds have gone into a smaller cost-cutting mode, trading closer Raisel Iglesias and non-tendering several players – including reliever Archie Bradley – they aren’t quite to the levels of cost-cutting that Cleveland has gone to. There are still rumors out there that the team has been at least listening on offers of their higher paid talent, which could further cut payroll. For now, though, none of that has come to fruition.

The trade market for shortstops this offseason had Lindor out there, along with some rumors that Trevor Story could be had from the Colorado Rockies or possibly Carlos Correa could be moved from the Houston Astros. If a team is willing to take on money, even in the short term, it’s painfully obvious that this offseason is when you can get far more talent in a trade if you are simply willing to pay someone. You’re still going to have to trade some talent to make it happen, but not like you would have in a “normal” offseason.

Of course, there’s also the free agent market. And this offseason the market has more than a few options on it, as we’ve recently discussed. Korean shortstop Ha-seong Kim signed with the San Diego Padres at the end of December. But that still leaves Didi Greogrius, Marcus Semien, and Andrelton Simmons as options the team could look at among those at the top of the market.

Jose Garcia, at least as things stand now, seems to still be the future at the position for the Reds. It appears, though, that the future isn’t at the start of the 2021 season. If the team were to sign a long term deal with a shortstop on the market, that could change for Garcia – perhaps he is then on the trade market, or maybe he takes a slower path to the Majors and starts getting time at both second and shortstop as a way to have him prepared for either spot in case it were to open up.

Spring training begins in about five weeks. The Reds don’t have a shortstop right now. There’s still time, but every day that goes by leaves you with a feeling that getting the right shortstop has a lower chance of happening. The National League Central division is there for the taking if any team actually feels like trying to take it. So far it seems that the plan for all of the teams is to just hope the other ones get worse than they got worse.

107 Responses

  1. Tom

    To be honest, I do not know enough about what the Mets gave up to have an opinion on whether the Reds were even in the ballpark for Lindor. Glad in a way they did not mortgage future years for a one-year Lindor rental with a draft pick as the only real compensation. The Reds need more than just a shortstop to significantly improve. The starting eight would be a good place to start.

    • SultanofSwaff

      So long as the team doesn’t subtract further from the roster, I think they’re the team to beat in the division…..assuming they trade for a SS. We have to remember we’ll be getting full seasons from Tyler Stephenson and Senzel, and we know over 162 that the underperforming positional core will more closely match the back of their baseball cards. Reinforcements in the form of Lodolo and Greene would greatly bolster the pitching staff. With a SS, I’m cool with where they’re at.

      • David

        Oh, a full season of Senzel!

        (fans self)

  2. Mark Moore

    I’d personally say our actual options are the same. I don’t see where we’d have ponied up a king’s ransom for one year of Lindor. So we still have the same prospective FA’s in vew.

    • Colorado Red

      The Mets did not give up a kings ransom (best I can tell).
      They did give up a nice SS with 6 years of control.
      I do not think the Reds would complete with Cards even with Lindor, so I am glad he is off the table.

      • Mark Moore

        Fair enough … but I’m still thinking any package we were offering was not rich enough for them and too rich for us to get one year.

      • Colorado Red

        Still I do agree with you Mark.

  3. SultanofSwaff

    This trade create a little more certainty about what the acquisition cost will be for Story or Correa. I would suspect that if the Reds take on 100% of either’s salary, then a package of Reece Hinds and Vlad Gutierrez would be fair. If either team eats ~50% of their salaries, then I’m offering India as the main piece.

    The key is to engage both teams and let them bid against each other…….hopefully.

    • LDS

      I agree. I’ve always thought Story or Correa were far more practical solutions. Less expensive, still a significant upgrade, and probably could be signed for a manageable amount for an extended period. Getting Lindor off the market should actually enable the Reds management to get off their rear ends and make something happen. Lindor was never realistic anyway.

    • Stock

      Lindor cost nothing in prospects in this trade. In fact he may have cost prospects to include him in the deal

    • Colorado Red

      By the way, I think Story is better then LIndor.
      Per baseball trade values (includes salary). They have about the same value.
      Lindor makes a bit more, but Trevor is at 18.5 Mil.
      Problem is the owner, thinks the Rockies are going to win 91 games, not lose 91.
      So, be would only trade Trevor for the farm.

      • Redsvol

        Story is not better than Lindor. That will be proven once Story relocates to a more neutral ballpark and his defense and leadership is nowhere near Lindor’s.

  4. TR1

    It’s Garcia starting barring a trade or someone signing for minimal salary. I would like a trade for Lux and play him at SS. Think it would cost Suarez plus one of our top pitching prospects, but could be worth it. Could try to finally move Senzel to 2b and Moose to 3rd.

  5. RedsFan11

    “So far it seems that the plan for all of the teams is to just hope the other ones get worse than they got worse.”

    Sad but well said!

  6. jbonireland

    Ok based on the Mets trade, a comp would be Garcia, maybe Senzel, the Reds first or second outfield prospect and one of the Reds top four pitching prospects not named Lodolo for one year of Franciso Lindor. Would you do it?

    • Bob Purkey

      Absolutely. . . .NOT

      I know it will never happen, but I am still for going to get Simmons and Wong for SS & 2B, trade Suarez and move Moose back to 3rd. Your fielding, baserunning and OBP increase dramatically. You still have plenty of power. With what you saved by elimination of Iggy, Bradley, Disco, Bauer and Suarez more than pays for those 2 guys, and you should be able to get something tangible for Eugenio.

      • Stock

        I could live with Simmons and Wong. But what about Simmons and Profar. I know Profar has struggled but he used to be the best prospect in the game. he hit 5 of his 7 HR on the road last year.

      • TOM

        One things for sure they should get a nice haul for Suarez. On the other hand if this would happen I would put Senzel ar 3rd & leave Moose at 2nd. I would drastically cut back on Votto’s playing time & platoon him. His best days are definetly behind him. Do not trade Gray or Castillo. there are to many ? marks behind them. I also believe the more Votto plays it lessens his chances for the hall.

      • Tom Diesman

        I really like the idea of Profar as well. He’ll only be 28 this year and put up a .770+ OPS up in 2 of the last 3 seasons.

      • Melvin

        I’ve always liked Profar even though he’s never realized his potential.

    • 2020ball

      Carrasco needs to be at least mentioned here.

    • Stock

      I predicted early in this offseason that Lindor has no trade value and comparing this trade to the Snell trade proves Lindor was pretty much a throwin.

      • MBS

        I’ve been right there the whole time as well. Now is a good time to be a Mets or Padres fan. They are willing to maybe absorb a financial loss, to gain real momentum in the league. You know it will payoff in the long run to, fans want winners.

    • MBS

      They gave up nowhere near what your saying. The gave up two prospects that were #10 + in their organization, and an ok SS, and a far less than average utility infielder.

      It would have been more like Farmer, Senzel, Johnson, Friedl for Lindor and Cookie, and yes, I’d do that 8 days a week.

      • Tom

        The difference between the Mets and Reds is that the Mets will make a run at signing LIndor for a big salary after the one year trial. And if it does not work, they sign a big free agent to plug any holes left by the trade. The Reds do not have that luxury. I sometimes wish that baseball had a way of leveling the field between rich and poor teams. But then this year the Rays made the World Series and almost knocked off Goliath. Short answer No to the trade.

      • MK

        I would bet that contract was agreed to before the trade was announced.

      • MBS

        The difference is they have an owner who wants to win.

      • Redsvol

        Difference is the Mets took on $34 million of 2021 salary from Cleveland. And the added cost of providing 4 decent – albeit not stellar – prospects. I can’t see another team willing to take on that kind of 2021 salary in today’s pandemic climate. Cohen is uber rich and wiling to do it. He will figure out eventually that you have to run the team like a business. The uber-expensive payroll teams rarely win the series.

    • RojoBenjy

      Would I do it?

      No way. I’m so glad the Lindor option for the Reds is gone, I’ve been afraid they’d give up too much for him.

  7. Horsetrader

    I think the Reds are on the right track considering the rest of the Central. In February there will probably two SS left at a very reasonable salary…. Didi and Marcus. I would prefer Farmer to Simmons because while never the glove, Farmer if given a chance to play everyday could be better offensive than Simmons. The Reds need another reliable bullpen guy badly.

    • Melvin

      If we were going to go with Farmer I’d rather just go with Garcia and stick him in the 8 hole. Let him learn there. Personally I don’t think he is as far away as the stats from 2020 would indicate.

      • Doc

        I would rather see Garcia start in AAA, since that season will parallel the Reds’ season. Start Farmer. If Garcia hits really well and is closer than everyone thinks, excepting Bell who already thinks Garcia is closer than everyone thinks, then bring up Garcia. If he can’t jump to AAA, he can’t jump to the majors, at this point.

        I don’t believe that the Reds are a SS away from winning it all, therefore I don’t like any deal, trade or FA, that negatively impacts the Reds abilities over the next several years as Garcia, Greene, Lodolo, approach their day in the sun. I think the Reds are more like ‘the entire lineup performs to the back of their cards’ away from advancing in the playoffs. There are always two teams, hence two GMs, involved in any trade. I don’t sense a general opinion on this site that Krall is craftier than the GMs he would be bargaining with. He might be, but time hasn’t elapsed to prove it. If they blunder in trades, especially due to his inexperience, it could doom the club for years. Not doing anything for 2021 may not doom them at all if the other prior acquisitions perform, or maybe make 2021 tougher but without adversely affecting 2022 and beyond.

    • TOM

      I could see giving Farmer a shot at SS. You could always bring up Garcia if Farmer fails.

  8. Sabr Chris

    Watching Cleveland my thought process is…
    Can Jose Ramirez still play short and what would it cost to obtain him?

  9. Randy in Chatt

    Anyone care to venture a guess which teams out there are actively looking for a shortstop (that will compete with us for Gregorious, Semien and A. SImmons)? If the buyer market is bare, that could lead us to get one of these guys as a gap to Jose Garcia.
    Now that Lindor is off the market…..

    • Redsvol

      Angels, Giants, and Rangers are the 3 teams I would look for to bid for the 3 free agent shortstops. They have the market/TV contract and owner willing to spend some $. Those same teams could also trade for one of the potentially available shortstops (Story, Coreia). All the other teams seem set for now at SS position and/or simply aren’t in position to spend $ this year.
      I’m feeling pretty confident that Reds will get one of the free agent shortstops once the price falls to 10-12$Million per year on a 2-3 year deal. However, I feel like only one (gregorious) is worth that type of commitment.

      • Randy in Chatt

        Thanks from one Tennessean to another! 😉

  10. Redbaron

    The Reds and Lindor never really made any sense. Lindor will still make $20+M next year which pretty much ended that discussion. I would have loved to have Carrasco though and a comparable package for the 2 would have been Senzel, Garci, Roa and Hinds. I still think the Indians would have went for the Mets deal though as it gives them 2 MLB ready middle infielders right now.

    Also I doubt the Reds want to $12M in payroll with Carrasco’s contract despite the fact that he is controlled for 2-3 more years at a reasonable price. But yet again it comes down to $$ and there is no way the Reds are adding $32+M to their payroll next year no matter what.

  11. LDS

    And if the Reds can’t afford $13-15MM per year, they need to close up shop or as I’ve said on repeated occasions, have a frank discussion with Votto, restructure the deal, let him retire, whatever, but amortize the ungodly monies still owed him. Who in their right mind signs a MLB’er until they are 40.

    • 2020ball

      Man I wish people would move on from the “frank discussion” comments and similar notions regarding Votto. It aint happenin, and the front office in all of its current ineptitude isn’t dumb enough to go down that road anyway.

    • MK

      There is absolutely no way Votto is going to do that. There is no upside for him there. Unless he retires with all the money owed he is not leaving it on the table, and who in their right mind would? Joey is about the money. If you listen to his edition of the Jim Day Podcast he complains about how underpaid he was early in his career. He is not retiring and not going to allow a trade.

    • TOM

      The Reds. Votto has made a ton of money at the Reds expense. He should work out something with the team & retire. If he doesn’t he be no more than a ph off the bench.

  12. Bob Purkey

    These guys may WANT that kind of money and length, doesn’t mean they are going to get it. FA’s are behind the 8-ball this year with most teams, except the usual suspects(Boston, LAD, LAA, NYM, NYY) cutting costs. How many of those teams need a SS? These guys are going to have to live with what the market is, and if the market doesn’t open back up unitl fans are let back in, they may have to take lower $$ and length,

    • Old Big Ed

      Agreed. There are more shortstops available than there are teams looking for one, so a patient approach will allow the Reds to win the game of musical chairs.

      I think Simmons on a 1-2 year deal would be perfect. Gregorius to me does not work, because he is yet another LH bat, when they already have Votto, Moustakas, Winker, and Akiyama, with Barnhart as a platoon. Didi has hit LHP in the past, but hasn’t the last two years, and Simmons is a better fielder.

    • Michael E

      Yep, I am fairly sure they’ll ALL three end up with 1 year deals, because the multi-year ain’t happening, not in the range they want. Lots of prove-it-again contracts for when, hopefully this time next year the pandemic is in the rear-view mirror and teams are giddy with spending excitement.

  13. Klugo

    I fully expect Nick Krall to rush into a knee-jerk reaction move, for better or for worse.

    • Michael E

      I’d be open to ANY reaction. Molasses off-season. That said, most teams are molasses this off-season. Only a handful have made all the noise.

  14. Rut

    Lindor was never a real option for the Reds, just click bait message board fodder for the masses.

    And as for Kroll making a knee jersey reaction to this move — huh? The Reds are not going to make ANY move except dumping of more payroll. But not like they are worrying about spending any money to aquire any of the options (Semien, Simmons, Didier, etc) that folks here seem to think are on the table.

  15. docproc

    Opening Day SS for the Reds: Kyle Farmer.

    • Shaggy

      With Alfredo Rodriguez as his backup

      • Jon

        I’m sure they could acquire Peraza in a trade from the Red Sox. It might cost them Lodolo and Greene though…LOL

      • doofus

        Jose Peraza is a non-roster member of the Mets.

  16. FreeHouse

    By the way things are going let’s hope the Reds don’t trade Castillo and/or Suarez for a bag of peanuts like they did with Cueto and Chapman. Castillo is an Ace and hopefully they don’t sell low. The only way I would see a Castillo trade is if they are blown away by the return. Go Reds!

  17. Stock

    Lindor could have been had real cheap. Compare this trade to the Snell trade:

    Snell vs. Carrasco: Carrasco has been consistently better but Snell had that one great year. Carrasco is on a better contract. Carassco was better in 2020. Pretty much a push.

    Patino (60) vs. Gimenez (50): Patino was given a prospect rating of 60 and was a top 10 prospect overall going into 2020. TB received the better prospect.

    Blake Hunt (45) vs. Wolf (40): Slight edge to Hunt TB again received the better prospect.

    Cole Wilcox vs. Isiah Greene: Greene was taken 69th and Wilcox was taken 80th in the 2020 draft. Pretty even. Slightest edge to Cleveland

    Mejia vs. Rosario: neither worked out. I would prefer Mejia because of potential. Advantage TB.

    In other words TB got more for Snell than Cleveland did for Carrasco and Lindor. Therefore, I consider Lindor a throw in at best and maybe even had negative value.

    • Sliotar

      Friend … this phrase “I consider Lindor a throw-in at best and maybe even had negative value” is … something.

      You can’t equate the TB-SD and NYM-CLE trades, for several reasons.

      Not least of which …. Snell as a Cy Young winning pitcher, with 3 years of reasonable cost control, was always going to bring back more than 1 year of Lindor.

      Carrasco was a “make weight” to deal that both NYM/CLE could live with … Carrasco helps Mets rotation with Syndergaard coming off TJ surgery … and Cleveland is dumping salary.

      I haven’t heard any MLB media suggest Lindor as having negative value … his contract next winter will certainly confirm he has plenty of value in some team’s eyes.

      • Stock

        I started out comparing Carrasco to Snell. I understand Lindor will not get the return Snell got. But the return Carrasco gets should be Similar to the return Snell gets. Snell is better than Carrasco but not by a lot. Carrasco’s contract is better than Snell’s.

        The return TB got for Snell was much better than the return Cleveland got for Carrasco and Snell. I think Snell and Carrasco should bring similar return. What does that leave for Lindor. I have a feeling only one team had interest in Lindor. The Mets knew it and so Cleveland had to throw in Carrasco to save face on the trade.

        Point is Cleveland got less for Carrasco and Lindor than TB did for Snell.

      • citizen54

        Snell has $53 MM in trade value, Carrasco $8.8 MM. It’s not even close. FWIW Lindor has 32.8 MM in trade value. That’s why the return for him was a lot lower than that for Snell.

      • Stock

        Time to update the simulator. Carrasco is on a better contract than Snell and was better last year. Carrasco’s 2019 season was blown up with cancer. I would tend to ignore this season.

        In 2017 Carrasco had a WAR of 5.4 and Snell had a WAR of 1.8
        In 2018 Carrasco had a WAR of 5.2 and Snell had a WAR of 4.8
        in 2020 Carrasco had a WAR of 1.5 and Snell had a WAR of 0.6

        In 2017 Carrasco had a FIP of 3.10 and Snell had a FIP of 4.19
        In 2018 Carrasco had a FIP of 2.94 and Snell had a FIP of 2.95
        in 2020 Carrasco had a FIP of 3.59 and Snell had a FIP of 4.35

        Carrasco has a career FIP of 3.42 and Snell has a career FIP of 3.51

        Hard to be critical of Carrasco for not being able to focus on Pitching in a year (2019) when he was battling cancer.

        Carrasco has a higher career GB%, a lower career Hard hit %, a lower career SIERA and a higher career K%-BB%. Carrasco wins in all these categories.

        Finally in what surprised me I went to Swinging K%. Snell has a higher career Swinging K%. However, in 2017, 2018 and 2020 Carrasco had a higher Swinging K%.

        It is difficult to say Snell was better in these 3 years and therefore, there should not be much difference from 2021-2023 where Carrasco has a better contract. I think your simulator is placing too much value on Carrasco’s 2019 cancer season.

  18. MBS

    The Reds are pathetic, let the 2 best SS get by them. Now it’s just retreads, and rookies. Early prediction, 74 W’s in 21. Could have had Lindor for a song. If they sign Didi, I’ll go 75 W’s, maybe 76.

    • Tom

      Unless Lindor is the next Joe Morgan and signs a long term deal with the Reds for pennies, no way it ever made sense for the Reds to trade for him.

      • MBS

        That’s small thinking Tom. The Reds have done a number on you. You buy into the “we can’t afford him” mantra “we’re a small market team”. The team is worth over a billion now, the current ownership bought the team in 2006 for $270m. Do you know how much their New tv deal is worth? No? That’s because they won’t disclose it. So stop agreeing with the “we need to reallocate these funds” line they are giving us now. Open the books Bob, if you’re telling the truth

      • Colorado Red

        Really easy to spend other peoples money.

      • greenmtred

        MBS: if ownership sold the team, they might have had enough money to extend Lindor. They weren’t able to entice Bauer to stay, after all. Players of that caliber are looking for huge paydays, and the team’s theoretical worth isn’t the same as the money they have to spend on payroll. With Lindor, do you think the Reds win the WS IN 2021?

      • Tom

        First, I want to clarify the Joe Morgan referral. I consider Joe Morgan to have been one of the most complete players ever. It was Morgan that took the Reds from a good team to a great team that won back to back championships in 75&76. If Lindor is that kind of player, then all the Reds propspects should have been available. But players like Joe Morgan are rare. Well, yes all of the MLB franchises are worth billions, but compared to NY and LA, smaller market teams just do not have the cash to pay stratospheric salaries for one player. Especially with the current uncertainty of the pandemic and pending labor agreement strife. Would rather see the Reds just keep adding solid-young players and building a talented 40 man roster.

      • MBS

        @Colorado I’d rather spend other peoples money, rather than make excuses for them not to spend money.

        @green They gave Bauer a competitive offer of 18+ m to stay. You can make the argument they knew he wouldn’t accept, but the still were willing to take the chance. I’d love to know how you are intimately aware of the financials for the Reds.

        Look I’m not insane, yes NYY and LAD are always going to have more money to spend, but that doesn’t mean the Reds are spending up to their ability. Before we signed Mouse, Castellanos, Shogo, Bauer (year prior) did you think the Reds had that money? No either did I, and now I am not convinced they don’t have more. There is little chance we will ever know what they have to spend. I’d rather push them, then nod my head and say I understand.

      • BK

        @MBS, consider these facts. Castellini’s net worth is estimated at $400M (LA Times made the estimate, and it’s consistent with other sources). Castellini is the least wealthy of all MLB owners per the article link below. Based on the Reds’s franchise value, Castellini has about $300M tied up in the Reds.

        https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/the-richest-mlb-owners-ranked-by-net-worth/ar-BB14ngzP

        The Mets traded for Lindor. Their new owner, Steve Cohen, has a net worth is $14.6B which is more than 36 times greater than Castellini’s. In fact, Cohen’s net worth is greater than the sum of the 14 least wealthy MLB owners combined. His wealth is 67 percent higher than the #2 owner. This is why the Mets spending is so different from other teams.

        The best insight into the Reds finances is published annually by Forbes which supports Castellini’s assertion that they approximately break even each year. An analysis at Fangraphs of the Atlanta Braves estimated their 2020 losses will approximately $65M. The Braves are publicly owned; therefore, their books are open so by the end of the month we should no exactly what they lost in 2020. According to 2020 Nielson ratings, Cincinnati is the smallest TV market of any franchise and #37 overall in the U.S. In fairness, if we add in Louisville and Dayton you can make a good argument they are about #16 in MLB as few other franchises have such large markets so close. Adding the three markets together their 72 percent smaller than the NY market. So, yes the Reds are at a structural disadvantage to several teams.

        Given that the Reds hit a new high in payroll last year, I would be shocked if there losses weren’t at least that of the Braves. As an organization designed to break even, they also have to be concerned about the likelihood of reduced fans in the stands this year. So, Lindor, at full salary was never an option. Had Bauer accepted their QO, other players would likely have been traded–I’m sure they had a plan to cover that possibility. It’s not “small thinking,” it’s just an informed assessment of their current situation.

      • MBS

        It is small thinking. Do you think MLB owners spend money based on their own net worth? I don’t think so, they are businessmen. They spend out of their profits they make from the team, not their own pocketbook. If we can agree on that then it becomes a question how much does a club make in a season. If you simply go on past spending then you wouldn’t have been able to account for last seasons spending. The only way to know how much they make is if they release their books. That won’t happen, so it’s all speculation on how much they have to spend. I am taking the side of spend it, don’t pocket it. If you build a winner you’ll build a bigger, more engaged fan base, and more revenue.

  19. TR

    I never thought Lindor was a realistic possibility for the Reds. I think the shortstop situation will work itself out in the next month. At least Lindor is not in the NL Central. I want to see the Reds keep their starting pitching for 2021 and, if possible, add a starting lefty. There’s not been too many seasons over the years where the Reds were noted for outstanding pitching. The Reds have as good a chance as any to take the division in the next couple years.

  20. Shawn

    I would argue that it didn’t shrink because there was never a chance he was going to end up here.

  21. Steve Schoenbaechler

    You have to consider it this way. . .with what the Mets gave up, could we have possibly gotten Lindor? Equivalently, I can’t help thinking it would have cost us a prominent young IF, like Suarez (maybe replace with Senzel; bring him back to the IF), OR a prominent young pitcher, like Castillo (no replacement there; lose Bauer and Castillo in the same year?), AND a top prospect, for a one year rental? Sorry, I just don’t see it. If we could get him extended WITH the trade, then possibly.

    Given all of that, who could we get? Well, I see Story still out there, all similar to what I mention above, if we trade. If not trade, we will be getting Didi on his downside, or some good glove/bad bat SS.

    I still think we should have gone after the Korean kid.

    • David

      The Indians, like most other clubs, want to cut payroll. I think all the ML teams lost money last year. This year is uncertain, due to whether they will have fans in the stands.
      I think Castellini in particular expects to lose money in 2021, just how much can he tolerate? That’s behind the salary dump. And why they will not sign a big free agent to play SS. Not…going…to…happen.
      Maybe the Mets can afford to pay Lindor, and maybe they have a very good paying cable arrangement to sell their games.
      These are things the Reds really don’t have.

  22. Hotto4Votto

    I was always a bigger fan of signing a FA to play SS over trading from our depleted system. Even if the going rate in trades is significantly lower, I’d rather not lose anyone of value for 1 year of a SS.
    Kim was very intriguing but there’s also a lot of unknown in how he’ll translate to MLB. With him off the board, and with a preference to not trade top prospects, my top three in preference would be: Didi, Semien, Simmons. Any of the three would be fine, but offensively Simmons isn’t much of an upgrade over Galvis, so I don’t think he helps the offense as much.

    • Scott C

      I agree, i would have been Ok trading for to years of Lindor, but not one. My order of preference in free agent SS’s are Semien, Didi and Simmons. And I agree Simmons would certainly not help the offense.

      • Bob Purkey

        Not sure about your comment about Simons vs Galvis. Simmons BA is 20 points higher for his career. 25 points higher in OBP, and 20 points higher in OPS, even though Galvis had 2 years of 20+ HR’s. He is certainly a better fielder than Galvis. Both are 31YO.

      • Hotto4Votto

        Simmons is better than Galvis offensively, but also not much of an upgrade. Neither really helps the offense, both would likely bat 8/9 in the order depending on DH. Both are below average offensively for their careers, but Galvis with more power especially recently which plays up in GABP. A 9% difference favoring Simmons (95 to 86 OPS+ last season, 91 to 82 OPS+ career). Which is why I said “isn’t much” of an upgrade.

    • Steve Schoenbaechler

      Yes. With Kim, there is unknown. And, with the FA’s, we do know what we have. Didi would cost most than Kim, and Didi’s on his downward trend. The others are good glove/no bat.

      The thing is, we need help with offense. Didi could still possibly help with that. But, I doubt the other two will be able to. And, I doubt seriously that Kim would be much worse than them with the bat.

  23. Bill J

    Doug, the Dodgers need a 3rd baseman what do you think they would give for Suarez?

    • FreeHouse

      I honestly don’t see a big return. Suarez had a down year last year and maybe the Dodgers just give them back a Josiah Grey and a few scrubs. Idk, Reds shouldn’t be in a rush trading Suarez or Castillo.

    • Old Big Ed

      Third base is the one position that the Reds have strength in numbers. The Dodgers need a RH-hitting third baseman. They aren’t giving up Josiah Gray for one, but they have enough pieces in their system to work out a deal.

      Justin Turner is in solidly in his decline phase, so it is likely that the Dodgers won’t sign him, or for much, anyway. Suarez is a good possibility for them. The Reds could move Moustakas there and move Senzel to 2B; or move Senzel there; or if they have the DH, move Senzel to 2B and Moustakas to 1B, retiring Votto’s glove permanently and playing Jonathan India at 3B.

      A Moose-Senzel-Andrelton Simmons-India defense would be a major upgrade.

      • Joseph

        Old big Ed…I agree my man. If India rakes in spring training like he did at Prasco, then he’ll be in the mix for an inf position. Reds will have to make a decision or two then, as to who they try to unload, if they hadn’t already done so.

  24. GreatRedLegsFan

    They should move Suarez back to SS, Moustakas to 3B and Senzel to 2B. No need for FA signings and/or trades. Garcia will be ready to take SS over in 2022.

    • Melvin

      Suarez was terrible at SS. Not only that but his body is a lot bulkier now.

    • jazzmanbbfan

      Suarez couldn’t play shortstop when he was 30 lbs. lighter. That’s not even something that should cross anyone’s mind at this point.

  25. doofus

    With respect, how do you truly know that these FA SS’s want 3+ years and the dollar amounts you state, did you speak with their agents? Did Peter Gammons tell you?

  26. doofus

    Suarez can barely field a ball at 3B; his throws to 1B from there are an adventure.

  27. gusnwally

    I smile and shake my head when I read all the comments saying trade suarez. I am sure all the folks would love to trade Geno and his 98 HR’s over the last 3 years. Along with his 10-12 million a year for Bryce Harpers 83 Hr’s and 30-35 million a year.

    • Jimbo44CN

      Good point. So far looks as if the Phillies overpaid.

    • MBS

      I am not eager to let a player like that go. I think Reds fans are trained to think rebuild is the only way to success. It’s drafting and player development, there are times to trade players away to add to the organization, but it shouldn’t be the default plan.

      I do wish we knew if the DH would be available in 21. I bet there would be a lot less people want to trade Suarez if that was the case.

    • Roger Garrett

      I love the guy but will he bounce back in 2020 or be just another player that had value that the Reds held on to too long as they have done so many times.We shall see but another down year means he becomes just another player we have that nobody wants at any price.Right now as I said he does have value to other teams so the Reds should listen if somebody comes calling

  28. MBS

    I don’t believe they will spend to get Didi, or another decent retread SS. So that leaves us to our own player pool. Alfredo Rodriguez, Blandino, or Farmer. I pick Rodriguez, he’s the only true SS, Blandino and Farmer are both utility guys who have played SS in the past. None of their bats are everyday 8 quality, so I’d rather take the best fielder of the group, and that’s Rodriguez.

    • David

      Yeah, I think you have nailed it. And likely, the Reds’ salary dump is not quite over yet.

      It would be nice to talk Votto into retiring and restructure his contract to pay him out over 10-15 years what he is owed now. But that isn’t going to happen either.

      • TR

        It would be a nice guaranteed income over a 10 to 15 year period.

  29. Bengals28

    I see new rule 5, Errol Robinson starting at SS on Opening Day 2021

  30. Ron

    Four moves that could help the Reds win NL central this year:

    1 Trade Tyler Mahle and Nick Senzel to the Twins for SS Jorge Polanco and pitching prospect Bailey Over. Polanco is signed through 2023 with a team friendly contract. Polanco is not the flashy addition that Semien or Gregorius would be, but he’s younger and cheaper.

    2 Send a package of prospects ( Vladimir Gutierrez, Ryan Hendrix and Jackson Miller) to the Marlins for CF Starling Marte. Marte is owed 12.5 mil in 2021.

    3 Sign free agent reliever Justin Wilson.

    4 Sign free agent starting pitcher Taijuan Walker.

    Lineup: LF Akiyama, RF Castellanos, CF Marte, 3B Suarez, 2B Moustakas, 1B Votto, C Stephenson and SS Polanco.
    Rotation: Gray, Castillo, Walker, Lodolo and Lorenzen.
    Bullpen: Garrett, Sims, Wilson, Antone, Miley, Noe Ramirez and Jose De Leon.
    Bench: Barnhart, Farmer, Winker and Aquino.

  31. Doc

    Trade pitchers who have shown something for pitchers who have not. Now that’s an idea. We should trade Cueto for Lamb, Reed and Finnegan. Oh, wait, we tried that. Is anybody dusting the trophies from the years since that trade!

    • Jimbo44CN

      I agree. Mahle seems to really be coming around, and Senzel (if healthy) should be a standout. We dont need any more retreads or players other teams are willing to give up. Tried that already. It dont work.

    • MBS

      Well on top of that, why trade a good pitcher that doesn’t cost much. I think the only pitcher to trade, that could make the team better is Castillo. I wouldn’t do it, but if they want to get impact players in return, he’s the only one that will do it. You would be looking at any teams best prospect and then some with other teams.