“The Reds are also inquiring about starters even as they are working hard to trade Sonny Gray, who has two years at $20 million left on his contract.”

Those are the words from New York Post and MLB Network’s Joel Sherman from a column on Friday night. For the Cincinnati Reds to be looking to trade Sonny Gray, much less be “working hard to trade him” is not a good sign in any way. It’s one thing to listen to offers if teams call and say they are interested. It’s an entirely different thing if you are the team making the calls to try and move what is probably one of the best bargains in all of Major League Baseball among players who have actually spent 6+ years in the game and are qualified to actually be paid their market value.

Cincinnati is in the market for a shortstop. Sherman notes that perhaps a player like Amed Rosario could be of interest for the Reds to move for Gray. Rosario is a 25-year-old shortstop who has been in the Major Leagues in parts of four seasons. He’s posted an on-base percentage over .295 in one of those seasons. If Sonny Gray is only worth an Amed Rosario what are we even doing? On no planet should Rosario be worth anything remotely close to Gray.

Why are the Reds even trying to trade Sonny Gray? Are they slashing the budget so much that somehow they believe it makes sense to try and move one of their best players on an incredibly team friendly deal to save money? It’s certainly possible that Sherman is simply incorrect in what he’s hearing. That wouldn’t be the first or last time – and no, that’s not a swipe at Sherman, people in the game of baseball hear a lot of things that never come to fruition and sometimes things that aren’t quite true even if they believe they are thanks to quality sources.

As we discussed the other day, it’s tough to make a deal that seems to make sense to move Sonny Gray. His contract is simply too good for the production he provides, and unless a team is willing to move a superstar who has three years on their deal in return for him, things don’t make a lot of sense. There aren’t many guys out there that match that description, and there are even fewer of them who fall into a category that the Reds “can afford” or that another team would actually be willing to trade.

If the Reds, for some reason related to money have to trade Sonny Gray, well then they need to do better than Amed Rosario. Gray should return an above-average player at the very least, not a fringe-starter. It’s far more preferable to simply keep Gray in the Reds rotation and find another way to acquire a shortstop for 2021 – and perhaps beyond. But if the team can’t make that work, budget wise, and must move Gray, they need to shoot higher up the chart than a guy who struggles to get on base.

104 Responses

  1. Mark Moore

    I’m at a loss how we get from “open to” (which is always legitimate) to “actively trying”. As you note, it would take close to a mind-blowing deal in return from my perspective.

    • John

      I’m a Reds fan since 1963, If they deal Sonny Gray with the contract he has for nothing, I must wonder about managements commitment to the fans?( I never thought as a life long Reds fan I’d say that).

      • JayTheRed

        Don’t feel bad… I am contemplating the same thing. I am trying to wait and hold judgement on Krall. But this just popped into my head.

        What if Williams was told he had to cut the budget big time after working so hard to get a winning team. Makes me wonder if he said. Yeah I’m not going to do that and resigned for that reason.

        I am already looking over teams that I have had mild interest in the past about.. If the winter goes bad it might be time to make a change. I am considering
        White Sox – They are fairly local for me but still out of market and are a strong up and coming team.
        Blue Jays – Well they have a lot of really good players just hitting the majors and well I was born there
        Diamondbacks – Always followed this team in the background since they became a team.
        Marlins – My wife always liked them and now they are going in a nice direction even though they don’t spend an arm and a leg in salaries.

        Honestly though I want to be a Reds fan its just really going to hurt if they mess things up. I am tired of watching this team lose.

      • Joe

        Hi John. I have been a pirate fan for a long time. Cincy and Pitt had some great series together. Until we get a new owner Pittsburgh will never be competitive. I hope Sonny stays with you.

    • Linda Chaney

      What is wrong with the reds, this new guy they hired is going crazy, they won’t have a team worth watching,that is what the right fielder and 2 and base stayed cause they thought they could win.

      • 2020ball

        Moustakas and Castellanos “stayed” because of millions of dollars

  2. JB

    This garbage flies every year around this time. People like Sherman like to announce this drivel that has no base whatsoever. Like you say Doug if Sherman is going to pass on something he heard in a bathroom stall at least come up with something better than Rosario. If the Reds trade Gray for a shortstop then they open another hole for a number 1 pitcher. The Reds have talent on this team to make the playoffs. They just need to add a couple of pieces. Trading away their top pieces just to fill a spot at shortstop who cant get on base at league average is rediculous.

  3. Jimbo44CN

    Well if they do manage to trade him for somebody like Rosario, forget it. You won’t have to worry about having fans in the stands because there won’t be any even if allowed. Imagine this year’s team without GRay and Bauer. OMG.

  4. weigarp

    Could it be that they are trying to trade Gray, as well as the releases of Bailey, Goodwin, and Casali, to make a run at Bauer? I sure hope not. Gray has been a solid starter for the Reds and is a relative bargain. I’m sitting here and just shaking my head in frustration. Other than to continue to lose, what are the Reds attempting to do?

    • CI3J

      Blow it all up, acquire a king’s ransom in prospects, and aim to be competitive in 2024 or so?

      I support them if this is what they’re aiming for, but it sounds like they are trying to trade Gray and also still compete this season, which sounds like the typical half-measure Reds’ front office we’ve become accustomed to over the last few decades.

      • KDJ

        Maybe they want to get still more mediocre depth in the outfield.

    • Doug Jenkins

      Trading Sonny Gray sounds extremely stupid to me! Very reasonable contract for a really good pitcher! Giving up great starting pitching for offense and not a stud makes zero sense

      • JayTheRed

        One exception I’ll take Trout for Sunny and any 1 of our OF’ers

  5. Droslovinia

    One thing you can count on is that the Reds will be looking to trade maximum value for minimal return. Still, I’m surprised that they’re not throwing in Castillo and Geno in with Gray in an attempt to get a big name 1-year FA SS rental. Maybe they’ll add Lodolo in to sweeten the deal. That’s just the way they roll…..

  6. DataDumpster

    Even considering the Reds and their bonehead moves, I put this in the case of someone trying to write just anything to bring attention to a team that generates nothing of interest (sorta like the unfortunate Ben Baby, the ESPN beat writer for the Bengals).

  7. Klugo

    Ima go ahead and file this away under “Don’t believe everything you hear” for now.

  8. SteveLV

    The only way trading Gray makes sense is if they are going full rebuild again – which I actually think they should do, but doesn’t seem like what they plan to do. I doubt there is a 1 in 10 chance that they pull off a trade for Gray that makes the team better over the next 3 years.
    A headline that said Reds working hard to trade Gray, Suarez, and Castillo with sights set on 2024 – ok, that’s a plan.
    A Gray trade with Amed Rosario as the centerpiece would be simply ridiculous. If they want to save $10 million, trade Iglesias for whatever prospects they could get back.

    • realist

      A full rebuild would be okay but not with the clowns they have running this team now. They would just screw it up.

  9. Jack

    Trading Gray spells “we given up on the win now phase” and are trying to restock the system again. But if this is the best they can do then please just keep Gray, at his price even if they aren’t winning at least I’ll get to watch him the next couple years in a Reds uni.

  10. Justin

    Maybe Williams left because the ownership was talking about reducing payroll and rebuilding. If this happens it may be time for reds fans to organize and boycott.

    • SportsGuru

      Leave it to Sherman to toss in a crappy Mets deal into any report. Get outta here with this nonsense!

    • Doc

      Maybe get this out there loudly and often until Williams feels compelled to comment. Of course, it could be that Moose and Castellanos were also moves ‘forced’ on Williams against his better judgement and he finally realized that he was not in charge and decided the family business was less hassle and less interference.

  11. Rut

    Folks need to accept that the Reds are opting out of competition due to financial constraints.

    Should they move Sonny in a salary dump it will not even be debatable. But the writing is on the (electronic) wall, folks just do not want to admit it.

  12. Bred

    If the plan is to empty the cupboard, trade everyone for top 50 to 75 prospects, and be ready to compete in 2022-2023 with young talent, then I think it is a good move. The current team is a 2 outcome lineup and not good enough to win the NL or WS. However, I doubt they would do this rebuild better than the last.

    • Redleg67

      2022 or 2023 doesn’t seem feezable to me.
      Of all the teams in the league, the Reds have the most time and trouble bringing their prospects to the professional level. This could take more than the 1-2 years you’re contemplating. Remember the rebuild that took forever after 2013?
      Sometimes I feel like they’re still within it.

    • Stock

      Excellent point. Profar is much better than Rosairo.

      • Jam

        As a Braves fan we’ll gladly take Sonny in exchange for Dansby Swanson and prospects.

      • doofus

        Swanson, Kyle Wright, Shea Langeliers and Pache for Sonny Gray.

  13. LDS

    Maybe after 50+ years, I should be working to find a new team to follow. This management and ownership makes me miss Marge Schott.

    • jazzmanbbfan

      They definitely sometimes leave me scratching my head but I’m still not at the point of missing Marge, lol.

    • Mike in Ottawa

      They cannot go into full rebuild. NO ONE would take Votto’s contract. Unless you are looking to compete when he is gone.

      I agree I too am starting to miss Marge as owner.

      • Michael E

        Full rebuild might get Votto to retire though…just a thought.

    • realist

      The Dodgers are fun to watch. The reds as currently run couldn’t rebuild a team.

      • LDS

        Become a Dodger fan? That’s sacrilegious. Too many years of both teams occupying the western division.

    • Mike Eisen

      Me too LDS…Marge cared about the fans! Bob don’t give two ?s. I’m about to wash my hands of this organization. I’m ready for a championship and it looks like a long way off. We need someone who bleeds baseball buy this franchise.

      • JayTheRed

        I got to meet Marge in person at Riverfront Stadium during the 1990 season. We were sitting near her and oh boy she smoked like a chimney. I have asthma and I was coughing a lot and she turned to me and said ” Honey you ok, My smoke bothering you, I’ll put it out so you can enjoy the game honey.” She signed our Red book that we had got at the stadium and I was always a fan since then. There were aspects of her that I didn’t agree with of course as I learned them but from a fan standpoint She did everything she could to make a winning team.

    • west larry

      If this actually happens, I will learn to follow a different team. Maybe the padres or the braves. I’m tired of all these rebuilds with sub par prospects. 50 years of following this team… a liked all of the seventy teams, and any other reds teams that reached the playoffs…no more 100 loss seasons.

  14. doofus

    Ya think Caleb Cotham is after Sonny Gray? I do not think that the Phillies match up.

    Sonny in the Padres young rotation seems to be perfect. They have lost Clevinger for 2021; and, they have a strong farm system, which includes young SS, CJ Abrams.

    Twins would have a fit for Gray, they have SS, Royce Lewis to offer.

    Would his curveball and slider work in Coors field’s altitude? Would the Rox move Story for him?

    There are more fits for Gray that would bring a good return. Even the possibility of 3-team deals.

    Let us not get down that Krall is just going to give Sonny Gray away. This is Krall’s first time at the helm. I believe he knows that if he makes a deal, it has to be a good one.

    • JB

      Yeah because that’s what you want to do in giving away your number one starting pitcher for a 1 year rental shortstop. Fill a leaking hole and open up another if not 2 with the loss of Bauer as well.

  15. doofus

    Some of you “Moriarty’s,” always with the negative waves.

    • LDS

      Moriartys? How many other all-star pitchers are available on a team friendly deal with talent and a cost comparable to Gray? Maybe we “Moriartys” have a basis for doubting the team’s ownership and management. A better question may be why do you have so much confidence in their decisions?

      • doofus

        It is not confidence, it is patience…”Young Grasshopper.”

      • doofus

        “How many other all-star pitchers are available on a team friendly deal with talent and a cost comparable to Gray?”

        Blake Snell, who is rumored to also be available. His team, the Rays.

  16. Rut

    Well, if Big Joe and Kelly can get some of that gold to the Reds, I would feel better about our chances here.

    • doofus

      There you go Rut, positive waves! Woof, Woof!

  17. AllTheHype

    Doug you’re usually on point with your articles and provide excellent commentary. This one, not so much. You’re making a lot of assumptions based on Sherman’s supposed insight, and even taking Sherman’s proposed return and venting about it. Sherman knows nothing about the specific context of the conversations the Reds are having and he knows even less (apparently) about player value.

    Let the Reds do their work and when we have facts, let’s discuss them.

    • Doug Gray

      If we waited for everything to happen before discussing it I’d be living in my car.

      • Mark Moore

        If you happen to be a fan of “Young Sheldon” that was a sub-plot this week … 🙂

      • AllTheHype

        Point taken.

        I guess I’m on board with the Reds seeking out a trade for Gray, assuming they get relevant value in return, even if that value is upper minors prospects that may or may not help this year.

        Why? Because Gray is going to be in his age 31 season and historically undersized starting pitchers don’t age well (he is 5′ 10″ for the record). I can see decline coming, maybe not 2021 but soon.

        Trade while value is hot. I am on the record as saying the same thing about Raisel a couple years ago, when his value was hot. Now it is not.

      • Jack

        Lol, love this comment. Yeah, information and speculation are all ablout this site.

  18. Tom

    Not opposed to trading a pitcher at peak value, you just have to get commensurate value in return. This is no reflection on Sonny Gray, but pitchers break down at an alarming rate. YOU can never have too many pitchers, but as the Reds season last year showed, to win the vast majority of your games and championships, you have to be able to score too. How about a Gray for SS and Reds killer Corey Seager? Plug Seager into the SS position for the next 10 years. In 10 years Sonny Gray will no longer be a front line pitcher.

  19. MK

    Guess they made playoffs in 2020 so good for another 10 years.

    • Doc

      If that were the case, then the FO people are worse than we believe, and that would be an achievement. They were the equivalent of the 16th hockey team to make the NHL playoffs in an alien season. Anybody who thinks that was an achievement is…..

    • Doc

      Interesting. I would cross out any deal that does not include an MLB ready SS. But that still leaves a couple those deals in the interesting category.

    • RedsFaninPitt

      Cronenworth while playing mostly 2B last season played mostly SS in the minors and is obviously blocked by Tatis. Substituting Paddock for Weathers would even be better. This type of trade would get 3 birds with one stone. Lower payroll/SS/major league ready starting pitcher.

  20. Sandman

    I posted the link to this article on the Reds Twitter page bcuz maybe someone’s just not getting it and hopefully this article, which is very on point, will awaken them.

    Of course, IF the Reds respond to these rumors at all, they’ll probably downplay it or outright deny them.

  21. doofus

    Perhaps Krall is taking a page out of the Ray’s playbook?

    This strategy has been proposed on this forum before.

  22. rednat

    What is the motivation for the reds to field a competitive team next year? If stadium attendance is capped at 10 k let’s say. They will get that easily no matter how bad the team is. The TV money is baked in the cake already. Because of this pandemic there is Really no way we can ” keep ownership in check”. I guess not buying merchandise is about all we can do to protest a bad team.

  23. Stock

    This trade will never happen. Why is Rosario better than Galvis? He isn’t. As Doofus pointed out Profar is available for very little and he would be a huge upgrade over Rosario.

    If you can make the offense markedly better you trade Gray but Rosario makes the Reds worse. Could the Reds be on the verge of being the Rays or Indians of the NL and be consistently relevant and trade pitchers at their peak value?

    Why would the Reds not miss Gray? I am thinking the Reds feel they have capable replacements ready.

    Mahle. Johnson and Boddy must be doing something right here. Out with Mahle’s slider and curve and insert a cutter. In games where Mahle threw the cutter last year his ERA was 3.09. There are two games early on where he did not throw his cutter and he was not so good. His swinging K% was up 47% in 2020.

    Lorenzen. Introduced the Slider in July 2019 and had a 1.91 ERA the second half. It took him 2 weeks to wake up (maybe he needed ST more than others) but from August 9 until the end of the year his ERA was again 1.91. His swinging K% was up 50% in 2019 and another 4% last year.

    Antone. The miracle boy. He came from nowhere to pretty special last year. If the Reds trade Gray that means they feel he is plenty capable of being the #5 SP.

    Sims. Started throwing the slider in the second half of last year and was pretty good this year.

    Gray to Boston or the Angels
    Prospects from Boston or the Angels to the Royals
    Mondesi to the Reds

    Gray and Moustakas to the Phillies
    Alec Bohm, Roman Quinn and possibly a prospect or two to the Reds
    Use saved cash to sign Didi.

    Hoffman. Do the Reds see something here?

    • Brady

      This is a good post.

      Doug has done a great job of calling the Reds ownership out for being “poor” – and it’s easy to go down that rabbit hole every time they make a move – but there could be more to this than just shedding salary. Look at what the Rays have done and continue to do – who wouldn’t want to be in that position? They do these kinds of moves frequently and it hasn’t made that much of a difference on the field.

      • ken lakes

        all the talk is about trades, they would be much better with the players they had, just hire a major league manager, quit hiring these weak managers, Bell both years has had under achieving teams trying to outscore bells mistakes, he such a tinkerbell manager. i respect the Bells but David is not a major league manager yet. i’m a reds fan still, but fix the real problem.

      • greenmtred

        As a theory, it has validity. In practice, the theory works only if the team is good at picking the right prospects and developing them well. The Reds haven’t shown much capability in these areas.

    • Bob Purkey

      As has been noted previously, trading Gray is fine if you get a commensurate return. Not sure how your Boston and LAA trades help, especially not addressing the SS issue until FA of course (Simmons, Didi, etc.)

      Bohm is not a SS and now you have Suarez and Bohm at 3B. Are you going to move Suarez? Not that I have a problem with that if you get Bohm, but again, only if you get a nice return. Move one to the OF?

      Don’t get the need for Quinn. . .struck out 127 times in 404 career ABs. Hit .213 ea. of the last 2 years. He can run a bit, but he has to get on base first-also has a 4/1 K to walk ratio-not good

      • Stock

        In the Gray to Boston/LAA trade the Reds get Mondesi who is a SS.

        In the Bohm trade I move either Suarez or Bohm to 1B if universal DH exists or LF if not. I move Senzel to 2B but would also consider Suarez or Bohm for 2B if they can play the position.

      • Bob Purkey

        Maybe I am just dense, but the only Mondesi that I know of that plays SS plays for KC. Are you talking about a 3 team trade here?

    • Bob Purkey

      Sorry, missed your point about KC being a third team. Mea Culpa.

  24. Brady

    I actually wouldn’t mind moving Sonny – but I would obviously love to keep him also.

    They clearly have a lot of faith in what Boddy can do. And if they can get a good return back (it isn’t going to be Rosario – NY writers do this stuff all the time) I wouldn’t mind it. I like Sonny and he showed faith in us signing that deal, but it’s a business. If the return is that good, I think you trust your staff to find the pitching elsewhere and get some good prospects in return.

    • KDJ

      Gray seems to have a winner’s attitude, which is sorely needed on this team. With the anticipated loss of Bauer, it becomes even more important to keep Gray.

    • doofus

      “NY writers do this stuff all the time.” True enough.

  25. Ron Couch

    How this club would be ran was made clear when Castilini bought the team. He would spend what ever the club generated, but was not taking from his other businesses to contribute to the Reds. That said, they thought they could make a significant move last year and maybe make the playoffs and that would generate fan interest, and create an inflo of money. They failed big time. COVID hurt a great deal with no fans involved, and that was costly. How did they make these bogus moved last off season you ask? Each team was given 50+ million dollars from the sale of BAMtech (a streaming service) to Disney. Well that money is long gone and Gray is the only thing they have of value. What little value Castenelius had when he got here, was quickly taken by his change of attitude at the plate after having a power surge when he got here. Moose never had any value and they overpaid for him. If you enjoyed the previous 5 years from the Reds, the next 5 should be just as bad……Good Day.

  26. Michael E

    If you move Gray, you do it for another teams #1, #2 and another top 8 prospect. You DON’T move him for a league average SS or for a start SS on an expiring contract.

    If Gray is traded, if I see even a hint of “MLB ready” with low ceiling, I’ll be sorely disappointed. That would be much like the Chapman trade a bunch of spare part MLB ready player or prospects, aquired simply because they were already 25 years ol, not because they had actual talent or upside.

    Upside only if you trade Gray, that or an established start NOT on an expiring contract.

  27. Andy

    I’m thinking Reds know they need to operate more like Rays than Cubs. They are hoping for a repeat of the Rays’ fleecing of Pirates for Chris Archer. Similar scenario.. peak trade value with 2+ years of control at reasonable cost.

    The Rays have figured out how to stay competitive trading players at peak value, and maybe getting a little lucky. I just worry… Reds fans should not get attached to stars.

    • Michael E

      I hope you’re right, because that is EXACTLY how the Reds should operate. Instead we’ve seen the opposite in Chapman and Frazier trades, waiting till trade value was lowest in years and THEN trade them.

  28. Jon

    The Reds want to save money? Might as well trade everyone on the roster that anyone will take. Load up on prospects and do rebuild 2.0.

    Sign Brandon Phillips to play 2B, Todd Frazier at 3B, Zack Cozart at SS, Billy Hamilton in CF, Jay Bruce in RF. Maybe Corky Miller can still catch. I’m sure Bronson Arroyo could throw another season. Stick LeCure in the bullpen. That will save the Reds some money…

    On a serious note, the day can’t come soon enough that the Castellinis are out of Cincinnati. Sell the team already and get out of baseball!

  29. Joe W.

    Maybe just trade Sonny to the Dodgers for Walker Buehler and Corey Seager. Then the Dodgers can go get Lindor with less constraint on the books. I know this is ridiculous, but just let this dreamer dream.. They cannot afford to allow Gray to go. If they really want to cut payroll, trade Castellanos. He may be gone after ’21 anyhow. Unless of course he has a no trade clause in what I think is the most lopsided deal ever given out. 2 opt out years? Wow..

    • Jimbo44CN

      You can forget the Sonny to LA thing, cause they might give up Seager but never giving up Buehler, but I like the trade Castellanos thing. He had one decent half year in Chicago, but he just looks like another all or nothing batter now and I don’t think he fits in well either.

  30. DaveCT

    I’d say trading Gray the same year Bauer departs might put an exit date for DJ and Boddy alike. Can’t believe those two want to work through a rebuild.

    Theater of the absurd again.

  31. Bob Purkey

    As much as I wouldn’t mind that trade at all, I can’t see LA doing that for either they have Turner at 3B now and they appear to be heavy into the Nolan Arrenado auction.

  32. Hotto4Votto

    The initial failed rebuild led to this continuous rebuild with no real plan in place. The Reds hung onto players far too long initially, and then forced themselves into panic trades of value for nothing. They doubled down on waiting too long by targeting ML-ready players/prospects over potentially bigger, more talented payoffs further away. Those ML-ready “prospects” weren’t even around to see the rebuild end. The Reds compounded their prospect issues by going into penalties on the IFA market for two years to sign an all glove SS who no one ever thought could hit his way out of a wet paper bag. When the Reds were fortunate to find a diamond in the rough to flip, they failed to do that for the most part (outside of Straily for Castillo). The Reds, either through bad luck or poor execution, have not drafted players that move quickly enough to fill in holes to help out sooner or guys that can stay on the field. They have attempted to pacify a fanbase by making half-measure moves that subtract from the future for little more than short term gains (2019 offseason). Then they continued to shed prospects while handcuffing the payroll signing largely one-dimensional players who are now on the wrong side of the aging curve, just to quasi-compete in a year that they finished in 3rd place in their division and left the “playoffs” without scratching one run across plate. And the one place every Reds fan saw as an obvious area of improvement, SS, if they really wanted to compete in 2020, they never did address.

    7 years of rebuild. 6 losing seasons, one playoff appearance, no playoff game W’s. A couple partial seasons from Senzel, a cup of coffee from T. Stephenson, and not much else to show from those high draft picks of miserable losing years. Reds fans deserve better than this.

    • Sliotar

      @Hotto4Votto

      Good post and good summary.

      The botched “Tank/Re-Build” is really making itself felt now.

      Do the Reds even have a crop of position players in minor league that are projected to replace Votto/Moustakas/Suarez?

      The Astros and Cubs did Tank/Re-Build … they drafted position players high and bought/traded for the pitching when they were ready to contend.

      Reds have Kyle Boddy … start drafting highly-touted position players at top of draft.

    • Hanawi

      This is a perfect summary of the failures of the Reds’ front office over the last many years.

    • BigRedMike

      This is a great summary. The Reds clearly have no plan. The past 3 off season have shown the lack of any vision.

      Again, look at the Rays and the A’s and ask yourself if they would have done something as stupid as singing Castellanos and Moustakas. Those are just bad signings and now the Reds have nothing in the minor leagues to go with it after trading players away for players no longer on the roster.

      It makes sense to trade Gray, because of the other terrible decisions. When in reality, if the Reds actually made logical decisions in the past two seasons, they would have a great starting pitcher with a great contract.

      Have a plan and stick to it

  33. Sliotar

    I do think the Reds could contend, even win the NL Central in 2021 by keeping Gray and getting a league-average SS.

    None of the NL Central teams are showing signs of spending heavily this winter.

    After 2021 …. the “window of contention” (such as it is) closes down a lot, if not shuts.

    Eventually, Cubs will start to spend some of that new TV network money.

    • Hanawi

      Agree. The Reds actually have a 2-3 year window right now where they can go for it with their high dollar committed contracts. They should be going all in.

      The other option is to shop Gray, Suarez, Iglesias, maybe Castillo? If they go into full rebuild, Castellanos probably opts out next year, leaving only Votto and Moose with the untradeable contracts.

  34. MBS

    So the other optimistic opinion would be maybe Lodolo and Green are closer than we think. The unique thing about last season is you couldn’t see the progress of the minor leaguers at Prasco.

    If moving Gray allows the Reds to afford a Kim at SS, and either Green or Lodolo is ready to make the jump, it could make for a fun year.

    The realist in me says it’s just a pure payroll cut…

  35. Jim H

    Not even looking at the comments. Sherman will always think a 0.1 WAR NY player is 10.0 & anywhere else the value of say a 10.0 WAR is 0.1 because he didn’t do it in NY.

    To be fair, maybe the Reds are shopping Gray. This is more likely something being floated from the Mets side for whatever reason. Yes we need a SS, but more stopgap to get us to Jose Ready.

  36. CleatsOn

    MY guess is that this is a bunch of BS.

  37. Roger Garrett

    Sonny is one of just a few that actually other teams may want so I can see him being traded.I fear we won’t get equal value for him but who knows.Trading him for a short stop would appear this front office is still drinking the kool aid in order to make us the fans believe they are building a contender.Garcia should be put at short and let him play along with Stephensen behind the plate.How much worse at the plate could they be then the ones that played there last year. Get a couple of top prospects from another team for Sonny and lets look towards to 2024 as has been stated.Can’t do anything about the base clogging,defenseless,strikeout machines they have got until then at ridiculous salaries.Go young and move on.I love the Reds and root like crazy for all of their players but they are what they are and until we get some younger players with some upside we will continue to lose.

  38. Moses

    Let’s be clear that Gray’s contract is one of the more valuable ones in baseball, and certainly one of the most valuable among post-FA contracts. So, with that in mind, one of two things is happening:

    1) as discussed, the Reds are trying to dump salary, but contrary to what’s being said, it’s not Gray’s salary that they want to dump. Even with the cost of WAR dropping in the Covid age, the contract is still pure gold. Instead, it would be using Gray’s as a lure for someone to also take one (or more) of the bigger contracts along with it. In this scenario, you still get some return, but the goal is to dump $30M+ in one fell swoop.

    2) as mentioned, Krall may want to do a complete tear-down and rebuild with prospects, and Gray’s the number one commodity, or damn close. But in this scenario, Suarez and others would have to follow…

    Other suggestions about trading Gray so that we can sign a shortstop or so that we can resign Bauer just seem so much less plausible (and dare I say stupid), and I can’t fathom the thought that my favorite team is just stupid. Are they?

    If I had to bet my lunch money, I’d say it’s #1 that could lead to a Gray trade…

  39. Rob Seng

    Angels always need pitching. Trade Gray and Winker for Adell and a prospect. Angels would never so that.

  40. JoshG

    maybe it was just worded wrong … they are working hard ON a deal for Sunny G. not working hard To make a deal. meaning they have someVERY good offers that they are trying to get even more on ? IDK.. just hope if they do trade him it’s only for an overpay.

  41. TR#1

    Do you think we could trade Suarez to LA for Lux and modest prospect? If he’s 2b then move Moustakas back to 3rd. Or even better if he can play SS

  42. Michael Green

    Originally, I saw TOR, HOU, ATL, LAD, CWS and SD as fits for a Sonny Gray trade. With ATL signing Morton and CWS making their move for Lynn, I think those two fall of the list. I doubt TOR would part with Pearson. Whitley of HOU is pretty interesting and could turn into Glasnow with the right pitching coach (like Johnson). Gonsolin or even Josiah Gray are interesting and Patino or Morejon are interesting for SD. If you get someone like that and one other player, a deal gets done. I personally think that CIN signs a SS to a short-term deal to avoid blocking Garcia. We could see a larger trade involving Senzel though too – perhaps that nets Snell. Who knows. Lodolo and Greene are coming with the former likely getting a call later this year. I trust the Reds’ brass.

    • doofus

      Okay, i figured out a deal with the Phillies for Sonny Gray. Bryson Stott, Adonis Medina and Rafael Marchan. All but Stott have reached the majors. Stott is predicted to be with a big club in 2021. Medina has the arsenal that throws consistent worm-killers. Marchan has the defensive tools to play in the majors know. He needs some time in the minors to fine tune his offense. He was 4 for 8 during a call up to the Phillies in 2020.

      • Michael B. Green

        I wish we could get 3 Top 10 prospects for Gray but I’m guessing that we’ll land 2 and change. Getting Stott would send the wrong message to Jose Garcia and getting Marchan sends the wrong message to Tyler Stephenson. I like Medina but he’s a bit undersized for a SP. All 3 are solid players though. Spencer Howard we be nice…

      • doofus

        Depth, competition, future trade pieces at the deadline. A team cannot stop building because some player’s feelings might be hurt.